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Occults need more focus - AGAIN

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Comments

  • logionlogion Posts: 3,641 Member
    edited November 13
    cyncie wrote: »
    BariSaxy wrote: »
    Apricus wrote: »
    The thing is that there’s obvious favoritism to one side of the community vs the other. The last occult was in 2019 I believe (please correct me if I’m wrong).

    You're acting like the occult is something that is to be weighed against the entirety of other features combined, when in reality, it's just a sole theme itself. Thus not having had it for a while when we've had it several times in The Sims 4 is not showing favoritism to everything else, it's just adding different themes/features.

    Besides, The Sims series is a life simulator first and foremost. I am not saying we can't have occults and supernatural content, I don't mean that at all, but I am saying that it shouldn't be surprising when we go a while without a supernatural pack.
    LiELF wrote: »
    Would you rather more Occults be included in EPs? They could lessen the "normal" content in there to make way for some fantastical like they used to in previous games. Then everyone gets something. No more waiting two+ years for Occult content for us, or realistic players complaining that a whole pack went to them. Include Occults in the bigger budget in every EP. Like you said, packs take up development time and people get disappointed. Just think of all the Occults we could have if they'd done that from the beginning.

    As it is, anti-Occult players have always had the majority of EPs and the bigger budget development to themselves, save for Get To Work and Island Living, which weren't even thorough with the Occults they did have. And you're telling us, what, to just be quiet and accept it and let them express their disappointment because a couple of smaller Game Packs don't cater to them? Yeah, how about no. I think you've wandered into the wrong thread.

    "anti-Occult players", oh, how very loaded.

    Again, you're falling into this idea that occults are this huge feature that is set against all other features/themes combined, and when other themes are explored, it's "anti-Occult"/for the "anti-Occults". Give me a break, occults is not special stacked up against all of the other individual themes/features that others want.

    And that's the crux of my whole opinion here. We all have individual opinions on what we want, and trying to shove it all into a realistic versus supernatural dichotomy is doing no one any favors. There are many realistic features that I wouldn't be excited to see, and I would take a unicorn occult over them any day (the Eco Living EP is an example of one of these realistic features I wasn't too excited to see). You see I have features on both "sides" that I'd love to see and would hate to see/be completely unexcited for. I don't stack unicorns over the realistic features I want or vice versa. But I do stack all of these over every other kind of realistic AND occult feature. That's because I see them all as things I want instead of "They need to add unicorns because they don't have enough occults".


    I do agree with you to an extent that there's a bigger picture that has to be taken into consideration. In reality all players benefit from additional realistic gameplay options. However, your argument might carry more weight with those who like fantasy elements in their games, if in fact, those very fantasy elements had not been nerfed by devs at the request of realism players. When fantasy/occult players get content that is then crippled at the request of those who don't want that content, that tends to lead to an assumption of partiality. Especially when that content was bought and paid for precisely because it had those elements.

    Playing realism alongside fantasy is my favorite way to play. But, to some, having any fantasy elements in game is unacceptable. Those people also need to be willing to see a larger picture of how the game is played in different ways by different types of players.

    The problem is that you can customize the game to your experience, with your sims, your stories, and customize it how you want to play. That makes players feeling like the game is theirs. Maxis might have listened a little too much to those people, they do what most companies do, they try to listen to the majority, but not always... but it was also a problem that it took very long for them to provide the tools that players wanted as well.

    Maxis have to pick and choose...and occults are probably something that they know are harder to implement, especially if they need to make new lifestates that have to be compatible with 7 years of old packs.

    Sometimes they make choices that people want, sometimes they doesn't... for every player that says that they want werewolves there is another that says that they want something else... and sometimes they make something else instead, this year for example...paranormal was based on the second choice from the community stuff pack, I know people wanted the grim reaper career but they went with the paranormal investigator instead, dream home decorator was something completely new and cottage living was farming that many people wanted.

    Speaking of paranormal, that was kinda an occult pack, and they also found a way to not make it interfere with family gameplay by making it a lot trait.
    Post edited by logion on
  • LJKLJK Posts: 109 Member
    MasonGamer wrote: »
    My biggest thing is I wish spell casters were more out there.

    For my story, magic is the very essence of my World.

    What I really would love more Magic Social and Club interactions, I'm still disappointed that "Casting Spells" was placed under the Mischief & Mayhem Category, because that not what I wanted for my Mages Club. I wanted to create a club, where my sims Focused on magical studies and how they could use it to advance and manipulate the world around them.

    I was hoping magic would be a tool for spell casters to autonomously be more efficient at doing things.
    I felt like Magic was suppose to taking things to the next level, not just add alternatives to doing things.

    and then I think magic should be a Like/Dislike.

    I just wanted to see spell caster to be more natural and liberal with their magic.

    Spellcaster who love magic would automatically use their power to do their tasks, rather than doing them manually like average mortals.
    and mortals can love magic too, and then Spellcasters could have positive social interactions with sims outside of the Magic community, with humans who enjoy magic, and even flex their magical powers for them.


    Spellcasters who dislike magic, won't automatically use their powers, and view magic negatively and Humans will too.

    also a "Floralorial All" - Interaction would have been a marvelous spell. especially if you run a farm, and its hot, and it's not going to rain for days,
    if my Spellcaster was able to Cast Floralorial over all Plants on the lot at once! <3
    Especially if my Sim loves to Garden using magic to take care of the garden would be cool to see if they did it out of their own will.

    Agreed. I recall in TS3, casters would at least occasionally use magic instead of just their hands for something. In TS4, I think it's only in reading books. I wouldn't say no to a Vampire refresh like someone mentioned earlier, but that occult is in a great place, in my opinion. Casters, I think need just some animations here and there of them using magic in their day-to-day lives. Mermaids & Aliens, however, need it the most. Mermaids, outside of Sulani, I don't know why anyone would play as one. Aliens were significantly nerfed in their shift from TS3 to TS4. Even their animations and effects for their abilities were reduced in quality.
  • LoanetLoanet Posts: 3,845 Member
    edited November 13
    The packs of Vampires and Realm of Magic are specifically for people who like fantasy elements.

    I understand that nobody likes to be told "If you don't like it, don't buy it." But fantasy players rushed out, ninja-like, to nab these kits - and realism players noted that they're filled with awesome BB and CAS, and Worlds.

    Three days later, Realism players complained that vampires kept breaking into their house or spellcasters would... well, do spell things, or aliens would abduct them, and Occult Players, having shelled out something like 20 Bucks, had EXACTLY what they bought the pack for, heavily nerfed.

    It's always seemed to me that Occults SHOULD be slightly OPed. Not to say that they should all be immortal gods, but there's GOT to be a balance between being a god, and frying within five minutes of the sun rising. We can put challenges in our character's personalities as it is, if they're Filthy or Lazy or OCD... why should magical powers make a Sim's life HARDER?
    Just because I bought most of the Packs at full price doesn't mean I don't know when I'm being ripped off, especially now that I can't buy Bundles.
  • ApricusApricus Posts: 469 Member
    Vampire AI is simply awful. They make no attempt to get out of the sun. One of my sims died at his sisters meet and greet while I wasn’t playing him because he wouldn’t get out from the very thing that’s roasting him alive. It was almost dark too.
  • cynciecyncie Posts: 534 Member
    logion wrote: »

    Speaking of paranormal, that was kinda an occult pack, and they also found a way to not make it interfere with family gameplay by making it a lot trait.

    I do think that was handled well. Confining the activity to a lot works for that kind of narrow gameplay. But adding a new life state, like Vampires, Mermaids and Spellcasters should allow the player use of the whole game for that life state.

    Anyway, as well implemented as Paranormal was, I still saw complaints that the haunted houses were too haunted.

    “So why did you place the lot?”

    “I like the idea of living in a haunted house. I just don’t like all the ghosts all the time.”

    Dream Wild Moon Child

    Tales From The Myst
  • BariSaxyBariSaxy Posts: 4,598 Member
    cyncie wrote: »
    if in fact, those very fantasy elements had not been nerfed by devs at the request of realism players. When fantasy/occult players get content that is then crippled at the request of those who don't want that content, that tends to lead to an assumption of partiality. Especially when that content was bought and paid for precisely because it had those elements.

    Is this speculation, or have the developers said so themselves?

    The Sims 4 is very commonly criticized for the entirety of the experience being nerfed, including the realistic gameplay options, like family play. So this idea that the fantasy elements are being nerfed specifically when the entire game is nerfed and the realism players are complaining about their own gameplay being nerfed is a little eh.

    Something I've noticed is that even in the more negative circles of people in regards to The Sims 4, the Vampires pack was praised for actually having some depth (I can't speak on this myself, since I've never played vampires in any TS game). And I mean, The Sims 4 also has more supernatural themed packs than any The Sims game in history.
    Loanet wrote: »
    The packs of Vampires and Realm of Magic are specifically for people who like fantasy elements.

    I understand that nobody likes to be told "If you don't like it, don't buy it." But fantasy players rushed out, ninja-like, to nab these kits - and realism players noted that they're filled with awesome BB and CAS, and Worlds.

    Three days later, Realism players complained that vampires kept breaking into their house or spellcasters would... well, do spell things, or aliens would abduct them, and Occult Players, having shelled out something like 20 Bucks, had EXACTLY what they bought the pack for, heavily nerfed.

    To be fair, when they stick really neat Build/Buy mode objects and CAS in a pack, that is going to incentivize some people to purchase, even if they don't care for the supernatural concepts. Realistically, the decor in Vampires doesn't need to have vampires to be what it is.

    The best option is to do what they did in The Sims 3 after Supernatural came out, and allow you to turn off the supernatural creatures one by one. That way people can have the packs without that stuff, while those who want the supernatural stuff can have it all they want. That sounds like a win-win situation to me, because the more people buy these packs, the more EA is going to think they need to make more like it. The developers just need to give settings so that stuff can be turned off.
    mJw75LN.jpg
  • logionlogion Posts: 3,641 Member
    cyncie wrote: »
    logion wrote: »

    Speaking of paranormal, that was kinda an occult pack, and they also found a way to not make it interfere with family gameplay by making it a lot trait.

    I do think that was handled well. Confining the activity to a lot works for that kind of narrow gameplay. But adding a new life state, like Vampires, Mermaids and Spellcasters should allow the player use of the whole game for that life state.

    Anyway, as well implemented as Paranormal was, I still saw complaints that the haunted houses were too haunted.

    “So why did you place the lot?”

    “I like the idea of living in a haunted house. I just don’t like all the ghosts all the time.”

    Yeah, there was, I don't know how it was on other social media but I think here on the forums those complaints were not that many because most people agreed that you could simply not use the lot trait if you didn't want ghosts, and if you were struggling with handling them it was mostly because you were making it harder for yourself by not playing the pack right.
  • temporalgodtemporalgod Posts: 621 Member
    edited November 13
    BariSaxy wrote: »
    Something I've noticed is that even in the more negative circles of people in regards to The Sims 4, the Vampires pack was praised for actually having some depth (I can't speak on this myself, since I've never played vampires in any TS game). And I mean, The Sims 4 also has more supernatural themed packs than any The Sims game in history.

    Sims 2 and 3 actually had more Occults than Sims 4, it's kind of disapointing to be honest, previous iterations had quantity over quality, so far Sims 4 has less Occults and most of them lack Quality except for Vampires and Spellcasters, Vampires more so since they're vastly superior than their Sims 3 versions, Veteran Simmers like me, who played previous Sims games already know that Sims 4 has less than the usual amount.
    knowledge is power and power is absolute.
  • friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 7,038 Member
    as a player i might not be into supernatural sims or occult but to be honest what would be a win win fair to all players would be toggles in game that way players that went realisim can turn off super natural occult via game options and players that went them can keep them like in the sims3 just giving my honest opinion as a player here
    If you went the sims5 to remain offline feel free to sign this petition http://chng.it/gtfHPhHK please note that it is also to keep the gallery



    Repose en paix mamie tu va me manquer :

    1923-2016 mamie :'(
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 5,666 Member
    as a player i might not be into supernatural sims or occult but to be honest what would be a win win fair to all players would be toggles in game that way players that went realisim can turn off super natural occult via game options and players that went them can keep them like in the sims3 just giving my honest opinion as a player here

    Yes, I agree, toggles, if they were that simple, would be the solution. Unfortunately, the developers spoke out about toggles years ago, and said that they have to be very careful about adding them because they add to game instability. (Look at the condition of Sims 3 at the end. It was crashing and sending error messages, blue screens, lagging, stuttering...it was a train wreck. Hence why we don't have Open World, CaSt, Color Wheel or endless Toggles.) So that's the reason they decided to do Occult Game Packs. According to SimGuru Ninja, They chose to do separate packs for Occult players who want them so that those who don't want that element could skip it. Yes, it means missing out on some furniture and clothing that matches the Occult theme. But for some reason, there are players who can't live without a couch so they buy the pack anyway and then complain about the main theme. :|

    Sims 4 was always intended to have a longer run than the previous games. Because of this, the devs left some of the problematic features out and decided to use toggles sparingly. I don't doubt that many players would rather the games had a five year lifespan with toggles and all and then move on to the next iteration, but games aren't really running like that anymore. So this is what we get. Maybe down the line we'll get some toggles, who knows? But until then, it's about taking responsibility for choices. Sure, buy the packs, but know that you are going to have those Occults doing Occult things in your game. Hey, I didn't want kids making messes and being annoying all the time in my game so I didn't buy Parenthood. Did I want the objects, CAS and B/B? Of course. But I definitely didn't want that specific gameplay. So I made a choice. It's not that hard. You just sometimes don't get everything you want. It's okay, that's part of being an adult. There's always more things coming down the line.
  • cynciecyncie Posts: 534 Member
    edited November 13
    LiELF wrote: »
    as a player i might not be into supernatural sims or occult but to be honest what would be a win win fair to all players would be toggles in game that way players that went realisim can turn off super natural occult via game options and players that went them can keep them like in the sims3 just giving my honest opinion as a player here

    Yes, I agree, toggles, if they were that simple, would be the solution. Unfortunately, the developers spoke out about toggles years ago, and said that they have to be very careful about adding them because they add to game instability. (Look at the condition of Sims 3 at the end. It was crashing and sending error messages, blue screens, lagging, stuttering...it was a train wreck. Hence why we don't have Open World, CaSt, Color Wheel or endless Toggles.) So that's the reason they decided to do Occult Game Packs. According to SimGuru Ninja, They chose to do separate packs for Occult players who want them so that those who don't want that element could skip it. Yes, it means missing out on some furniture and clothing that matches the Occult theme. But for some reason, there are players who can't live without a couch so they buy the pack anyway and then complain about the main theme. :|

    Sims 4 was always intended to have a longer run than the previous games. Because of this, the devs left some of the problematic features out and decided to use toggles sparingly. I don't doubt that many players would rather the games had a five year lifespan with toggles and all and then move on to the next iteration, but games aren't really running like that anymore. So this is what we get. Maybe down the line we'll get some toggles, who knows? But until then, it's about taking responsibility for choices. Sure, buy the packs, but know that you are going to have those Occults doing Occult things in your game. Hey, I didn't want kids making messes and being annoying all the time in my game so I didn't buy Parenthood. Did I want the objects, CAS and B/B? Of course. But I definitely didn't want that specific gameplay. So I made a choice. It's not that hard. You just sometimes don't get everything you want. It's okay, that's part of being an adult. There's always more things coming down the line.


    I’m glad you pointed all of this out. A lot of the very things we want from Sims 3 (open world, CaSt, toggles) are the things that contributed to its instability. I never owned all packs or store content, and still I sometimes had to turn Seasons off just to keep the game from being crashy. I like that the supernaturals in Sims 4 are being offered in their own packs. The choice is made upfront. That choice to buy or not buy is the toggle. I would suggest that the release of an occult pack could include a simultaneous release of a related BB and CAS stuff pack with at least some of the assets included. That way, if you don’t want the gameplay you can buy the stuff pack, and the rest of us can have our full gameplay.
    Dream Wild Moon Child

    Tales From The Myst
  • SERVERFRASERVERFRA Posts: 4,720 Member
    And that's why I still play Sims 3.
  • CelSimsCelSims Posts: 2,072 Member
    edited November 14
    LiELF wrote: »
    as a player i might not be into supernatural sims or occult but to be honest what would be a win win fair to all players would be toggles in game that way players that went realisim can turn off super natural occult via game options and players that went them can keep them like in the sims3 just giving my honest opinion as a player here

    Yes, I agree, toggles, if they were that simple, would be the solution. Unfortunately, the developers spoke out about toggles years ago, and said that they have to be very careful about adding them because they add to game instability. (Look at the condition of Sims 3 at the end. It was crashing and sending error messages, blue screens, lagging, stuttering...it was a train wreck. Hence why we don't have Open World, CaSt, Color Wheel or endless Toggles.) So that's the reason they decided to do Occult Game Packs. According to SimGuru Ninja, They chose to do separate packs for Occult players who want them so that those who don't want that element could skip it. Yes, it means missing out on some furniture and clothing that matches the Occult theme. But for some reason, there are players who can't live without a couch so they buy the pack anyway and then complain about the main theme. :|

    Sims 4 was always intended to have a longer run than the previous games. Because of this, the devs left some of the problematic features out and decided to use toggles sparingly. I don't doubt that many players would rather the games had a five year lifespan with toggles and all and then move on to the next iteration, but games aren't really running like that anymore. So this is what we get. Maybe down the line we'll get some toggles, who knows? But until then, it's about taking responsibility for choices. Sure, buy the packs, but know that you are going to have those Occults doing Occult things in your game. Hey, I didn't want kids making messes and being annoying all the time in my game so I didn't buy Parenthood. Did I want the objects, CAS and B/B? Of course. But I definitely didn't want that specific gameplay. So I made a choice. It's not that hard. You just sometimes don't get everything you want. It's okay, that's part of being an adult. There's always more things coming down the line.

    But then they gave us toggles for: Eco Footprint, Dust, Animal aging, Build mode items granting effects, Lifestyles, NPC voting in Ecolifestyle. We have a few more, but all the one's I listed were introduced after they said all that about toggles.
    Doesn't look sparing to me to be honest. I think they just screwed up and assumed none occult players would use some common sense regarding occult packs and not act like entitled children. Can't really say that when you are representing the company though.
    Post edited by CelSims on
    Origin ID: 3989
  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,593 Member
    CelSims wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    as a player i might not be into supernatural sims or occult but to be honest what would be a win win fair to all players would be toggles in game that way players that went realisim can turn off super natural occult via game options and players that went them can keep them like in the sims3 just giving my honest opinion as a player here

    Yes, I agree, toggles, if they were that simple, would be the solution. Unfortunately, the developers spoke out about toggles years ago, and said that they have to be very careful about adding them because they add to game instability. (Look at the condition of Sims 3 at the end. It was crashing and sending error messages, blue screens, lagging, stuttering...it was a train wreck. Hence why we don't have Open World, CaSt, Color Wheel or endless Toggles.) So that's the reason they decided to do Occult Game Packs. According to SimGuru Ninja, They chose to do separate packs for Occult players who want them so that those who don't want that element could skip it. Yes, it means missing out on some furniture and clothing that matches the Occult theme. But for some reason, there are players who can't live without a couch so they buy the pack anyway and then complain about the main theme. :|

    Sims 4 was always intended to have a longer run than the previous games. Because of this, the devs left some of the problematic features out and decided to use toggles sparingly. I don't doubt that many players would rather the games had a five year lifespan with toggles and all and then move on to the next iteration, but games aren't really running like that anymore. So this is what we get. Maybe down the line we'll get some toggles, who knows? But until then, it's about taking responsibility for choices. Sure, buy the packs, but know that you are going to have those Occults doing Occult things in your game. Hey, I didn't want kids making messes and being annoying all the time in my game so I didn't buy Parenthood. Did I want the objects, CAS and B/B? Of course. But I definitely didn't want that specific gameplay. So I made a choice. It's not that hard. You just sometimes don't get everything you want. It's okay, that's part of being an adult. There's always more things coming down the line.

    But then they gave us toggles for: Eco Footprint, Dust, Animal aging, Build mode items granting effects, Lifestyles, NPC voting in Ecolifestyle. We have a few more, but all the one's I listed were introduced after they said all that about toggles.
    Doesn't look sparing to me to be honest. I think they just screwed up and assumed none occult players would use some common sense regarding occult packs and not act like entitled children. Can't really say that when you are representing the company though.

    Or it could be that in the time between when they said toggles were problematic and they started adding more toggles, they've found a way to add them in with fewer stability issues, but it wouldn't be as simple to add them to pre-existing packs because of the way they were added to the game's framework at the time.

    Technology advances. People learn new things. And things that once they thought they could not do, now they can. Even in the span of a few years (or even months)
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 5,666 Member
    DaWaterRat wrote: »
    CelSims wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    as a player i might not be into supernatural sims or occult but to be honest what would be a win win fair to all players would be toggles in game that way players that went realisim can turn off super natural occult via game options and players that went them can keep them like in the sims3 just giving my honest opinion as a player here

    Yes, I agree, toggles, if they were that simple, would be the solution. Unfortunately, the developers spoke out about toggles years ago, and said that they have to be very careful about adding them because they add to game instability. (Look at the condition of Sims 3 at the end. It was crashing and sending error messages, blue screens, lagging, stuttering...it was a train wreck. Hence why we don't have Open World, CaSt, Color Wheel or endless Toggles.) So that's the reason they decided to do Occult Game Packs. According to SimGuru Ninja, They chose to do separate packs for Occult players who want them so that those who don't want that element could skip it. Yes, it means missing out on some furniture and clothing that matches the Occult theme. But for some reason, there are players who can't live without a couch so they buy the pack anyway and then complain about the main theme. :|

    Sims 4 was always intended to have a longer run than the previous games. Because of this, the devs left some of the problematic features out and decided to use toggles sparingly. I don't doubt that many players would rather the games had a five year lifespan with toggles and all and then move on to the next iteration, but games aren't really running like that anymore. So this is what we get. Maybe down the line we'll get some toggles, who knows? But until then, it's about taking responsibility for choices. Sure, buy the packs, but know that you are going to have those Occults doing Occult things in your game. Hey, I didn't want kids making messes and being annoying all the time in my game so I didn't buy Parenthood. Did I want the objects, CAS and B/B? Of course. But I definitely didn't want that specific gameplay. So I made a choice. It's not that hard. You just sometimes don't get everything you want. It's okay, that's part of being an adult. There's always more things coming down the line.

    But then they gave us toggles for: Eco Footprint, Dust, Animal aging, Build mode items granting effects, Lifestyles, NPC voting in Ecolifestyle. We have a few more, but all the one's I listed were introduced after they said all that about toggles.
    Doesn't look sparing to me to be honest. I think they just screwed up and assumed none occult players would use some common sense regarding occult packs and not act like entitled children. Can't really say that when you are representing the company though.

    Or it could be that in the time between when they said toggles were problematic and they started adding more toggles, they've found a way to add them in with fewer stability issues, but it wouldn't be as simple to add them to pre-existing packs because of the way they were added to the game's framework at the time.

    Technology advances. People learn new things. And things that once they thought they could not do, now they can. Even in the span of a few years (or even months)

    This is true, good point. But I also think it has a lot to do with what type of toggles are implemented and how/what they toggle. I'm obviously not a developer so I don't know for certain, but from the bits of research, observations and what I know from experience with the games, features are a lot more stable when they are built in from the beginning. So it could be that toggles that affect the Sims themselves are a whole different animal. Sims constantly interact with other Sims, even outside of the played household, there are NPC Sims programmed and scripted for behaviors, and reactions for Occult interactions. Suddenly toggling that off could create gaps in the coding (again, just guessing) or cause bugs or Last Exceptions or glitch other Sims. We also don't have hybrid Occults and if one is born, it's actually considered a bug. It might be related.

    I remember that in Sims 2, it could create a big issue if you deleted Sims that were put into the game because of the memory system and depth of interactions. And, again, Sims 3 was very unstable for many reasons and that game used toggles quite liberally. It's possible that when the devs include a toggle, they have it work in a very precise and focused way with "safer" limitations to how it effects the game. And if it only affects pack-related things, or Sims on a superficial level, or temporary "states", then it can be considered. Being an Occult is a semi-permanent state. If you were to suddenly turn them "off", what would happen? Do they just disappear? Do they suddenly become mortal? What is the risk of playing Occults in a save and then deciding you don't want them? I'm sure these are questions that have been considered.

    I wonder, though, if there could be a way to work in a toggle for Occults for new saves only? Sort of a one and done situation where you can't go back and change it. Maybe that could be explored in the future.
  • logionlogion Posts: 3,641 Member
    edited November 15
    DaWaterRat wrote: »
    CelSims wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    as a player i might not be into supernatural sims or occult but to be honest what would be a win win fair to all players would be toggles in game that way players that went realisim can turn off super natural occult via game options and players that went them can keep them like in the sims3 just giving my honest opinion as a player here

    Yes, I agree, toggles, if they were that simple, would be the solution. Unfortunately, the developers spoke out about toggles years ago, and said that they have to be very careful about adding them because they add to game instability. (Look at the condition of Sims 3 at the end. It was crashing and sending error messages, blue screens, lagging, stuttering...it was a train wreck. Hence why we don't have Open World, CaSt, Color Wheel or endless Toggles.) So that's the reason they decided to do Occult Game Packs. According to SimGuru Ninja, They chose to do separate packs for Occult players who want them so that those who don't want that element could skip it. Yes, it means missing out on some furniture and clothing that matches the Occult theme. But for some reason, there are players who can't live without a couch so they buy the pack anyway and then complain about the main theme. :|

    Sims 4 was always intended to have a longer run than the previous games. Because of this, the devs left some of the problematic features out and decided to use toggles sparingly. I don't doubt that many players would rather the games had a five year lifespan with toggles and all and then move on to the next iteration, but games aren't really running like that anymore. So this is what we get. Maybe down the line we'll get some toggles, who knows? But until then, it's about taking responsibility for choices. Sure, buy the packs, but know that you are going to have those Occults doing Occult things in your game. Hey, I didn't want kids making messes and being annoying all the time in my game so I didn't buy Parenthood. Did I want the objects, CAS and B/B? Of course. But I definitely didn't want that specific gameplay. So I made a choice. It's not that hard. You just sometimes don't get everything you want. It's okay, that's part of being an adult. There's always more things coming down the line.

    But then they gave us toggles for: Eco Footprint, Dust, Animal aging, Build mode items granting effects, Lifestyles, NPC voting in Ecolifestyle. We have a few more, but all the one's I listed were introduced after they said all that about toggles.
    Doesn't look sparing to me to be honest. I think they just screwed up and assumed none occult players would use some common sense regarding occult packs and not act like entitled children. Can't really say that when you are representing the company though.

    Or it could be that in the time between when they said toggles were problematic and they started adding more toggles, they've found a way to add them in with fewer stability issues, but it wouldn't be as simple to add them to pre-existing packs because of the way they were added to the game's framework at the time.

    Technology advances. People learn new things. And things that once they thought they could not do, now they can. Even in the span of a few years (or even months)

    That's the impression that I am getting from their development of this game too, they are discovering new ways to implement new functions which will help them with adding new content.

    And I don't think that there have been much development that could help with occult gameplay, apart from the scared emotion that we got in the beginning of the year. A lot of focus right now have been on the sims themselves and how they work with lifestyles, sentiments, likes/dislikes, and new ways in how they can bring content to players with kits, refreshes and scenarios.
    Post edited by logion on
  • estella_deeestella_dee Posts: 229 Member
    I'm not a 100% occult player. I really only play them when I am bored with "normal" sims. But I buy the occult packs, because they do make the game more playable and interesting. I really don't like how aliens, mermaids and plant sims are very weak-- almost irrelevant. And spellcasters are really just cheat avatars. I don't feel they are interesting enough to play them. I mean, I have a mod that does that short cuts to cheats, and my regular sim can be a master caster without magic. Not only that, don't we have potions we can buy on the aspiration rewards that are even more powerful than the spells and potions a spellcaster will have to make/practice in hours? What's the point of playing a caster, when you can just cheat those spells or buy them on the rewards store?
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  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,593 Member
    edited November 15
    I'm not a 100% occult player. I really only play them when I am bored with "normal" sims. But I buy the occult packs, because they do make the game more playable and interesting. I really don't like how aliens, mermaids and plant sims are very weak-- almost irrelevant. And spellcasters are really just cheat avatars. I don't feel they are interesting enough to play them. I mean, I have a mod that does that short cuts to cheats, and my regular sim can be a master caster without magic. Not only that, don't we have potions we can buy on the aspiration rewards that are even more powerful than the spells and potions a spellcaster will have to make/practice in hours? What's the point of playing a caster, when you can just cheat those spells or buy them on the rewards store?

    1) not everyone can or chooses to use mods
    2) If you know there's more challenge if you don't cheat, why cheat?
    3) not every potion effect can be found in the rewards store
  • LoanetLoanet Posts: 3,845 Member
    I know it sounds weird, but some people really do have more fun cheating. Sometimes I cheat money in just so that I can buy the expensive houses I make more easily.

    But, I don't like mods because they inevitably will need to be removed on the next update.

    And I don't use CC.

    My point being, I feel like it's EA telling the devs "You can only do Occult Game Packs when we say." Paranormal, which came with a Medium skill and Bonehilda, was a Stuff Pack, while Mermaids came in an Expansion Pack and yet were significantly less developed than Vampires.
    Just because I bought most of the Packs at full price doesn't mean I don't know when I'm being ripped off, especially now that I can't buy Bundles.
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