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Are emotions that hard to update?
Jordan061102
Posts: 3,918 Member
I mean we have been asking for an emotions overhaul for over years and it basically just consists of tweaking and adapting the power of buffs. Why is it taking so long? They're always saying ''we hear you, we hear you'' but I just feel like they do not actually focus on things we want and they don't try hard enough to fix the game. Also, whenever they add a new system (whatever system that includes gameplay & consequences) it always feels flat cause they miss the mark somewhere...It's like they don't try to incorporate it to many aspects of the game (for example likes & dislikes, I'm sure a lazy sim can get a like for fitness or if you gift a cooking book to a sim who hates cooking the sim will still be happy). I don't know how to express it, but it just feels like they don't know their game.
Post edited by EA_Mako on
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So you woul have to tweak every buff again after a while.
A system that might work is one that limits the maximum number of visible buffs a sim can have at the same time. So if your Sim already has a +1 happy buff, adding another +happy buff could let the older +1 happy buff go away if the sim already has a lot of other happy buffs going on. Also, some buffs like +happy for decor should probably be tuned down to be very short and unable to let another buff fade. They should also not come up when a Sim is in a bad mood because decorations should not help to fix something like that.
But I actually don't know how hard it would be to transform that into phython.
Also I fear that such an overhaul would ruin a lot of playstyles for those who actually prefer their Sims to be always happy. It would be a thing to consider as a toggle, though. Maybe you could make a toggle that makes all positive buffs last only half as long?
What are your suggestions, everyone?
A lot of complaints I’ve read about the emotional system are usually vague on what changes people actually want made, but you’ve come up with something in-depth and technical that I think would work well. I’d be all for your ideas to be implemented, or at least something close to them.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
Yep that's true. What I also think is that negative emotions should overpower positive ones except if your sim has some kind of a cheerful personality. Cause let's be honest to most people negative events override positive ones (except if it's something really joyful). But speaking of that, like you already pointed out, many simmers like to have their sims constantly happy, so a sort of toggle to vary between a high or low impact of negative emotions would be great.
And if you want sims to be angry with each other then small happy buffs should not neglect that. They recently improved that a lot with sentiments. A sim who has a negative sentiment with another sim are much harder to be friends with for example.
Maybe you could share it on their next sims 411 where they are asking for feedback on a higher level of challenge and depth in the Base Game and what you think could be done about emotions. But do keep in mind that just saying "fix the emotions system" is probably not helping them a lot.
Keep in mind that the game is designed so you are supposed to be able to stack buffs to reach a higher mood, so it should still be possible to make your sim very focused or very energized for example.
You wind up with inspired, confident, focused sims or flirty. While happy is less often with mods the +1 or whatever number is given to the buff only increases the base mood and you might even miss the one angry or tense or embarrassed moodlet because it's 20 moodlets of buffs. Bloated.
The game without emotional mods tends to hold at happy but the problem remains, they get "stuck" in one emotional state based on the buffs adding to the stronger state such as inspired or confident.
The buffing system needs work. The angry mood for cheating, as example, can last 24 sim hours but if the buffs are pumping inspired, happy, confident, then the time doesn't really have much impact as the happy moodlets don't allow it to become the dominant mood.
So while I agree with the emotional state I'd be happier with fewer buffs. Some enjoy sims being happy as an escape type play mode and others enjoy more emotional variation and I imagine that could be accomplished through how long and strong the buffs are.
We have heard that the studio is currently focused on refining or polishing current and past TS4 content. This is a good thing to hear. They are ironing out wrinkles and smoothing the way for whatever is developed next. In the course of that, doubtless they are guided by some consideration of what can make the most impact at the least expense, or effort, which amount to the same thing. To the extent that a refinement of base systems like emotional state is easily undertaken, we can expect to see something of the sort. If we don't, it's a fair indication that such work is far, far more demanding and technical than you might expect.
It seems like they have tweaked emotions more, as my gloomy sims seem to be sad more often. But, I agree decorations should not be very powerful. They shouldn’t last long at all. I guess I’m one that like my sims to be happy more often than not, but I do play a few cheerful sims. I have noticed the change in my gloomy sims. I haven’t played my evil, mean sim lately to see if he is more evil and mean, he never did seem very evil or mean before they tweaked some of the emotions. If they haven’t tweaked those two I wish they would.
Now this might be an unpopular opinion, but I uninstalled meaningful stories after some time because it made my Sims tending to get struck in a certain kind of mood. Just because I was playing a creative Sim, that didn't mean I wanted them to stay inspired all the time, even during a date with their sweatheart. I for one would not be happy if the implemented meaningful stories into the game. Also I don't think we can expect EA to accomplish something better and more thoughtful than what a modder came up with. Modders tend to play the game a lot during testing and do constantly tweak their mods to balance out things the best way possible. EA won't do that as they don't play the game that intensly.
You can see that everywhere in the code. There are often tiny bits missing that would enhance the game but they won't notice as they don't play at leisure just watching and feeling whether everything they programmed playes out nicely.
They are asking for our ideas because they are looking for creative input that might give them ideas that can be rather easily implemented and doesn't have much flaws.
I'm afraid changing the emotion system in a way similar to meaningful stories is someting they cannot win with. People using mods will be disappointed if it is not at least as good as the mod they prefer to use, others will voice their disappointment that after 7 years, EA does not at least come up with something miles better than the lots of mods available. A lot of people playing Vanilla will whine that they liked the old system better. It's a chore to change all the buffs that are now in game to something balanced and meaningful. Why should EA do that if they already know that more people will be disappointed than pleased with their changes?
I remember the traits update that barely scratched the surface and brought new stuff some people didn't like. That must have been hard for them, because the have put work into these changes. And the trait system is A LOT smaller and less complex than the emotion system.
Perhaps this is an unpopular opinion, but I'm actually all for leaving the emotion buffs alone. I care to a minimal degree what emotions my Sims are experiencing and how realistic that is. My problem is that it is currently too important in determining whims (an abandoned system that needs reworking and revival) and autonomy. Notice I do not think it should have no influence. I think it makes sense that a painter would wish to paint when (s)he has strong emotions, which makes use of the unique emotion actions. However a painter should want to paint, and not say cook with zero cooking skill just because of inspiration. Sims with the same emotions act too similarly and for a long time personality traits have been very bare on top of it, so there are few if any methods to really counter it.
We've ended up with a system where emotion pretty well dominates and dictates everything instead of simply contributing flavor like it should. My favorite part of 3's Sims was definitely the detailed personality system. Sims felt and acted unique based on those mechanics, their whims reflective of it and their lifetime wishes. 2 was very similar in that the lifetime aspirations were well developed and contrasted starkly from one another. It the autonomy was more needs focused, but you it was overall an interesting and dynamic mechanic to engage with. I can very much imagine 4's emotion system in those games, but acting independent. So the Sims are randomly flipping through happy, sad, etc. I would be happy with that, and it confirms to me that the real power of emotion is flavor rather than some amazing intelligence system.
Emotions are a gimmick and I hope they will remain exclusive to this iteration.
Besides, they're already hiring CC creators to make content for the game, why not a talented modder?
I see negative emotions as obstacles to work around. It can sometimes be easy to switch to the desired emotion. Other times, it’s harder. I don’t want to make them last longer and I don’t find the powerful ones particularly easy to overcome. Like a +5 sad moodlet for the loss of a beloved spouse... I think it lasts 2 days, whatever it is is long enough for me. A mod I’m thinking of makes it last a week or longer, no thank you.
I like using emotions to get better results in arts, cooking and other increased skill gains. But I don’t care that it slightly directs my gameplay (to take a few minutes to watch the clouds first, or do something on the computer, or drink some tea, or take a special type of shower or bath). If I don’t want to take that time, I don’t have to. Sometimes I like to auto-solve the hygiene need and see what they choose to do. If they sing in the shower, they might get inspired and that might lead to something else. If they take a bubble bath and become playful, so what? I mean, I guess they could die, but for the most part they’re fine.
I think the Surge Emotion action is super cool as well, and it helps me keep them in a desired mood for way longer.
I also agree that negative buffs should override the happy buffs some of the time. Particularly as the result of a catalystic event. Maybe that's something that should be taken into consideration since Sims don't have proper memories; life altering events should have a very strong influence. First marriage, first kiss, first woohoo, first baby, reaching the top of a career... should all definitely give "Very Happy" buffs if successful and mark those turning points in a Sim's life. Then things like first rejection, fired from a job, death of a loved one, cataclysmic life failure, etc. should also override with the appropriate negative emotion and mark that point in a Sim's life.
I get that we aren't going to have a full blown memory system but we should, at the very least, have Sims remember important moments. Even things like being turned into a Vampire, going on an extensive adventure, solving the Strangerville mystery, etc. should somehow be marked for a Sim to recall and recognize. Even if it's just something that comes up in their thought bubbles once in a while while they're idle and gives them a temporary small buff. I think the thought bubbles could use some tweaking and Whims should definitely be overhauled (or at least added to) to make sense to the Traits and Aspirations like they used to.
if you want that get bust the dust @LiELF fine is what you get a lot with that
But on another note, I have noticed more emotional dampening on some of my Sims and at least there are more ways to get Sims in that state. I just wish they defaulted to Fine with full needs.