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Difficulty Levels
mightysprite
Posts: 5,851 Member
In advance of the Aug 19 collection of feedback for what kinds of challenge we'd like to see in the game, I'm wondering if people have input as to a Difficulty Levels system for The Sims 4. People have suggested this many times on the forum.
Good idea?
Bad idea?
What variables would we like to see changing at higher difficulty levels?
My thoughts: The current game has a Tutorial level and an Easy level. Here are some variables that could be changed to create other difficulty levels, perhaps Medium, Hard, and Deadly.
(I think we do need to keep the Easy level of difficulty available for new players, "I do this to relax" players, and for the sake of some kinds of storytelling gameplay where the storyteller needs to get certain things to happen.)
Depletion of needs
Depletion of needs in special circumstances (while pregnant, while sick)
Size of bills
Risks of spell failure and overcharge for spellcasters
Frequency of vampire visits
Frequency of alien abductions and pregnancies
Upon meeting, there is a random chance as to whether two sims find each other attractive; if not, building a romantic relationship is much more difficult (romance actions have a much higher chance of failing). Random chance is easier to implement than a full-blown attraction system.
(Unrequited attraction would be another level of difficulty too but that seems like it would be harder to implement)
Upon meeting, there is a random chance as to whether two sims find each other aggravating; if so, building a friendly relationship is much more difficult and they have autonomous mean actions toward each other
Length of duration of illness
Chance of death from untreated illness
Chance of random sudden death for adults and elders
Chance of death in childbirth
Chance of promotion at work
Rate of progress in work and school performance
Chance and size of performance gain/loss from chance cards at school and work
Some university classes are harder than others (longer homework, more papers/projects, chance of failing even if you do all the work and take notes every class)
Rate of pay of careers
Rate of pay for crafted objects and busking
Cost of services
Daycare costs money
Sad, tense, or angry moodlets appear once in a while for the rest of the life of a sim who lost a parent or sibling while young, or whose parents divorced (like the Happy Toddler moodlets now). Or some other lasting impact of events like that
Good idea?
Bad idea?
What variables would we like to see changing at higher difficulty levels?
My thoughts: The current game has a Tutorial level and an Easy level. Here are some variables that could be changed to create other difficulty levels, perhaps Medium, Hard, and Deadly.
(I think we do need to keep the Easy level of difficulty available for new players, "I do this to relax" players, and for the sake of some kinds of storytelling gameplay where the storyteller needs to get certain things to happen.)
Depletion of needs
Depletion of needs in special circumstances (while pregnant, while sick)
Size of bills
Risks of spell failure and overcharge for spellcasters
Frequency of vampire visits
Frequency of alien abductions and pregnancies
Upon meeting, there is a random chance as to whether two sims find each other attractive; if not, building a romantic relationship is much more difficult (romance actions have a much higher chance of failing). Random chance is easier to implement than a full-blown attraction system.
(Unrequited attraction would be another level of difficulty too but that seems like it would be harder to implement)
Upon meeting, there is a random chance as to whether two sims find each other aggravating; if so, building a friendly relationship is much more difficult and they have autonomous mean actions toward each other
Length of duration of illness
Chance of death from untreated illness
Chance of random sudden death for adults and elders
Chance of death in childbirth
Chance of promotion at work
Rate of progress in work and school performance
Chance and size of performance gain/loss from chance cards at school and work
Some university classes are harder than others (longer homework, more papers/projects, chance of failing even if you do all the work and take notes every class)
Rate of pay of careers
Rate of pay for crafted objects and busking
Cost of services
Daycare costs money
Sad, tense, or angry moodlets appear once in a while for the rest of the life of a sim who lost a parent or sibling while young, or whose parents divorced (like the Happy Toddler moodlets now). Or some other lasting impact of events like that
Post edited by EA_Mako on
5
Comments
I am not sure I would like the game to control difficulty with levels. I already feel the game is controlling our gameplay with making us do things with quests etc to achieve in certain areas.
If I want to have a bit of a challenge I will take up a challenge someone has designed by withholding certain aspects of the game to make it harder for our Sims to achieve. Also the game already offers challenges you can select on a lots to make our Sims lives a little more difficult if you feel inclined. I personally haven't tried them apart from putting in the helpful ones to give my Sim a helping hand getting skills. The problem is with the Sims 4 is there is too much for our Sims to keep happy unlike in the Sims 2; for example when social went down it went down quickly and suddenly the social bunny would appear and pick our Sims up giving them a little bit back so they could try and raise it again. That is something I miss in the game; the fun animations when things went wrong or when there was a celebration or happy occasion.
I already feel that the Sims is slowly drifting away from it's original conception of a life simulation. I still continue to play as I enjoy the Sims, but it has certainly changed from the game I played in the Sims 1 & 2.
like i like some parts of gameplay in challenging way but i don't really want all of it to be challenging at once or all of it to be easy at once
i think lot challenges is good way to go about it because that way you can choose the challenges you are interested in having and for specific household rather than every household
we could also have personal challenges for our sims to be added in cas separate from sims traits and some that are possible to improve on
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So, no. The game is challenging enough. It's supposed to be a fun game.
Honestly having to tell your Sims to pee, eat, shower, sleep, go to work, pee, sleep, eat, pee....
That was a turn off to me. For a game, I'd rather play . That stuff isn't bad, just making it like "Tetris" where it gets more and more is "A Bad Idea".
So now instead of taking an hour in-game to eat, it takes 20 in-game hours at higher difficulty? Hmm...
I understand you are saying over time things get harder.
This other stuff has been tested, (Sometimes unintentionally with patches). So no.
Good question and concept though.
Cheers.
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Yes. could add some more "challenges" though. Like "Opening the window covering" skill.
(I'm being sarcastic)
But I'm definitely up for more lot challenges, lot traits, burgerlers, natural disasters (can also be a lot challenge) the kraken, moon phase zombies,
Stronger negative emotions.
Traits could add a bit more challenging impact too. For example I created a scary looking vampire and no one cares. So I downloaded a custom "scary" trait and now when my scary vamp goes zipping by sims get scared😆 some of them start panicking or feel uncomfortable, so it makes it a challenge to go around in life as a scary vampire lol.
More vampire break ins. Would be nice to control how often (still never get them. Just a vampire standing at the door)
I also think the paranormal pack is a great example of a good challenge.
One sided love would be nice as well as a more expansive sickness system where sims can care for sick sims, vs having to by medicine for myself and cure myself of the illness I never even get anyway.
I think your concept of the sims is a little bit off. It is mostly a sandbox game that they currently aim mostly at 8 year olds, although it has teen rating I think…..Lol.
But, that’s not the biggest problem with giving sims 4 a difficulty rating….. there are enough game breaking bugs already, and adding 3 more difficulty levels is sure not going to help with that.
Besides they already are beginning to give us challenges ( probably as a test for the new sims 5 that I hope we will be getting someday ), so we are going to more or less start choosing our difficulty level in some things by the challenges.
If they were going to give us more difficulty I would like to see that difficulty more like some of the earlier sims games…..having a fridge that you can’t get free food from, having to buy each piece of clothes your sims wear ( like they used to when you bought clothes and it went into a dresser )….. so you could use anything you bought, but not anything else. Making it where you can make your own apartments, more active careers like the 3 get to work careers, but adding the option to work from home. Things like that.
I already look at some packs as not exactly an easy level, like jungle adventure and the first 3 get to work active careers. Heck, discover university had me perplexed at the start. I still don’t know the exact formula for grades. I can get an A+ in one subject and a D in another…. Lol. But I haven’t played it much because I like rotational play.
But, some of the things you suggested could be good challenges, now that they have brought them In. It would be nice if they went to more past packs and brought out some more challenges.
I like some of the realistic play like being able to die from illness if you don’t treat it. It not being quite so easy to pick up anyone romantically, so quickly. Like having to actually hire a baby sitter if you go off without the your baby or toddler, but first they need to make it where you can take your baby to any lot with you like you can your toddler.
@Babykittyjade The problem with Sims4 is that when something that is put in as a surprise or 'challenge', most people get angry or annoyed. Like the Murphy Bed. I thought that was hilarious! Death by bed. So it was toned down to dollhouse.
Hey it's cool. Can't have too much violence in this game.
By James Turner.
Yes!
More challenges to place on different lots. Burglars, vampire invasions, earthquakes could be potentially more dangerous. Meteors could perhaps have small chance of hitting a lot it was placed on.
If it is done by challenges placed by the player someone can have a nice relaxing save with beneficial lot-traits and also have a save with cursed, Homelot that is sometimes visited by vampires and the local park sometimes has deadly disasters like meteors or something.
I like to have challenges on different lots.
Some people like to play as an easy Sandbox/Creative style game, and others like to play the game as a Management Simulation. It seems like the Sims team only caters to people who want the game to be a casual, sandbox game, and not to people who want the game to be more challenging.
If we had different Difficulty settings for the game, it could satisfy everyone.
And no, I don't think Lot Challenges will magically solve everything. I can't imagine how annoying it would be to have 20+ Lot Challenges just to make the game challenging. Lot Challenge for burglars, Lot Challenges for disease, Lot Challenge for higher Skill Difficulty, Lot Challenge for Lower Wages, Lot Challenge for Daycare costs, Lot Challenge for Higher Bills, etc.
It's too much! Some of it just needs to be controlled by toggles. Where the heck are toggles for this game? It's been 7 years..
The problem is the Sims team doesn't know how to tune features to a normal amount.
I think it's cool that Murphy Beds can kill a sim, but it shouldn't kill them every time they use it. That's just bad tuning, and something Maxis is very bad at.
People complain because they either ramp it up to 100 or it's literally 0, there's never any middle ground.
I mean that's true it would probably be a rediculous amount of challenges but we could say the same for toggles. Scrolling through the option menu to check and uncheck 50 toggles🤣🤣
If anything they could do some toggles and some Challenges maybe?
It makes sense for the smaller more controversial features to be Challenges like burgerlers. No need to turn them off as an all or nothing when you could just choose which lot you want them to appear on. The kraken could not even appear in every world. Would sense to turn it on or off for a sulani lot (or new under water world)
And I might want it to appear on only select lots.
The challenges actually give us more control than toggles which is all or nothing. Even it it adds up to a lot of challenges. And most likely we wouldn't be using 100 Challenges at once on a normal day lol
But yes I could see toggles for bigger features like the pollution system.
I think optional adverse events and the ability to switch on more negative consequences might make sense. Sometimes you might want that and sometimes you don't. As others observed, they are accommodating a lot of different types of players. I would take some challenges but I don't want a paint-by-numbers approach.
For example in TS3, I didn't like how an affair would basically always result in a bad reputation spreading around. While I'm not playing tons of affairs, I like to have more choice about how situations are handled. Sometimes that means a divorce but sometimes maybe the couple wants to work it out privately. No, I don't play like that a lot but I don't want the game to dictate the same response each time. I think there is room for more romantic gameplay and different romance styles including consequences but I actually did not like how heavy-handed TS3 could be at times. I'm not looking for a repeat of everything in TS3.
Adding some unpredictability or challenge? Sure, I'd want that. Generally, I like playing with happier sims so if they add a different mode for other players, I'll be fine with it. I don't think it is about making the game easier or harder though, more so, it is more about playing with different types of challenges. The optional lot challenges are a step in the right direction.
I will also add that I really would like "more to do" both in terms of gameplay objects and directions in which to take the game. I think they have been adding experiences that help with that but sure, sometimes I am looking for more. There could also be overarching themes for a household. The main thing is that many people play differently so we should not try to force everyone into the same playstyle.
I'm still more or less with @bixters , I want enough things to be more challenging (or to have the option) that it would be a LOT of lot challenges. But maybe this is a minority opinion.
In Sims 4 I re-created my favorite family from Sims 2, who started out as an immigrant couple with starter money, 5 children and another on the way. In Sims 2 the gameplay with this family was full of angry yelling teen girls because they had to do their homework and didn't have anything fun in the house besides pillow fights with each other, while I was trying to keep the mother from dying during her pregnancy, juggle 3 part-time jobs for the teen girls, and send one of them to the store late at night after her shift so she could buy groceries for her hungry family. It was great. Needless to say, none of that happened in Sims 4. They just had a sweet and happy life and could buy everything they needed after the first few days. I didn't play them for very long. Honestly, I prefer Sims 4 as a game overall, but I wish there was an option to make it harder.
Trying to get to a industrial state through gameplay is only stressful with little enjoyment, I tried that, but with a cheat code my sims can be miserable straight away.
I still agree with Will Wright who at the time hated rpg games and never wanted The Sims to be one.
I think that's fair.
Having some things be Challenges and some things be Toggle switches. I think Challenges should only effect the specific lots, whereas Toggles should effect the whole world.
The game should have challenge and...be a game...by default. If you want to use the Sims as a PURE sandbox game for storytelling / machinima....then there are a world of cheats that should be used to remove negative buffs, restore needs, etc.
At best we'd get something like "Easy", "Normal" and "Hard", and then "Hard" would include everything that makes the game harder, like faster depleting needs AND harder access to distinguished degrees AND higher bills with no option to mix and match. I also do not expect things that are not in the game yet, like language barriers, to get added. In the end I'd continue playing on Easy and stick to my mods and all the new difficulty levels would be there for nothing.
My ideas that I'm writing on another document are that sims traits and likes/dislikes should matter more when playing on hard mode so it should encourage the player to play with different sims who are doing different tasks to succeed with bigger lifetime goals.
The price of what things sell for needs to be reduced too especially Excellent Quality especially plants like Snapdragons those can go for like 2,000 simoleons per bunch lol that's insane and too high you'll become rich in no time at all... per bunch it starts to quickly add up and your already rich, and then i think how long they take to grow should take longer or balance the fee per day with how long most the fruit, veg and flowers take to grow, but of course if they don't sell anything in a sim day then they don't get charged the fee. It just has to be made harder so they don't earn too much too fast.
Being promoted has always happened way too quickly too where they start earning several thousand per day but it needs to be harder to gain a promotion and then maybe it gets harder as you go up and what you need to do to earn that promotion like it realistically should, i think if it's harder for them to earn money then it makes it more of challenge to pay for Bills and stuff too and it's just way too easy even for 1 sim even at the start of a career they may not earn enough from their wage but then they can just sell Paintings which can sell for a few hundred simoleons at the beginning of the Creativity Skill and then it takes too little time to paint it i think it should take longer if not then how much they earn from them has to come down.
In general other things like making friends, building relationships, earning Skills it's always been too easy as well but i think if it's made harder in a balanced way then everyone will be okay with it and it will then make it more fun for everyone, it doesn't have to be too difficult cos for anyone when it feels too difficult your not gonna have fun anymore.
The older games were smarter in ways than this game has been built. For instance, difficulty with Sims should always be based on their personality not a difficult level. But the older games had difficulty built into the game in specific areas such as getting a promotion and or retaining friends, and or retaining an intimate relationship. Those are simple ways to make the game harder or easier. In TS4 every thing is easy for the Sim.
In the older games, when skilling the first few points were easy like learning how to cook. Right? But as the Sim needed to learn more about cooking the level points became harder to gain and took much longer. That is the difficulty of the older games like TS2. And always the last few points to get to level ten in mechanical took much more time and harder to gain. This was good because Sims who didn't have a level ten mechanical skill could be killed if they attempted to repair the TV. More than not. It was a 50/50 chance at a lower level skill starting with level 5 etc. Anything below that the odds were your Sim is probably going to die. There was no Hand Holding. TS4 holds your hand and why many veteran players don't like it. That is just one example of no hand holding and the difficulty, but wait, money didn't just didn't flow into the Sims' lives like it does in TS4. The reason someone might want the Sim to have some better skills to repair their own stuff and or be a better cook is because what the Sim ate mattered and what the Sim could do with repairs mattered or the Sims would suffer low, very low motives and of course didn't have the money like in TS4. Things cost money, TS4 has more money that the Sim doesn't even have anything that expensive to spend it on. Such as clothes, cars, more expensive foods and ingredients etc.
TS4 is a simple, childish game that anyone can fly through because the only bad thing about the wrong foods in TS4 is it makes the Sim overweight. Well, in older games, it ends their life sooner, oh, yes, there is a meter that determines (hidden) how long your Sim will live when they age up to elder. Some Sims live longer than others. TS3 handled this better with better foods etc. And spoiled foods systems etc. And or better ingredients. What is the point of better food if it only gives your Sim a moodlet? (TS4).
Better foods in TS2 meant the sim wouldn't have to eat as soon and some of those foods will lower the Sim's fitness just not make them overweight. This also mattered depending on if other Sims preferred a fit Sim or not. It all mattered not just zodiac signs. Cooking skills mattered if the Sim was going to burn the food and the house down, now it just matters if your Sim can do some fancy cooking animations. So, no difficulty level slider was needed. You knew if they didn't improve (your choice play it easy or hard) they were going to fail, perhaps not be as attractive to the other Sim and or burn the food and the house down, because no, Sims don't auto put a fire in older games like they do in TS4.
There was a reason Sims needed a Fire Dept. and it's not because it's cute. It's because they are going to die and burn down half the kitchen and or more of the house if a fire fighter doesn't get there. No Sliders needed if common sense tells you the Sim needs some cooking skills at least one before they turn on the stove.
These are just small examples of how the older games handle difficulty levels. Money didn't just fly in the window such as being able to collect rocks all over the place and sell them if your Sim already has ten dozen crystals. There was reason Sims needed to find a job and fast. Because starvation, over exposure to weather, and or low energy and hygiene was going to kill them. Sounds reasonable doesn't it. I mean who can live on a bench (TS4) and be perfectly happy all the time (TS4) and never have to bathe (for over 24 hours in TS4) and or eat, and or pee and or talk to someone? Not many, at least not those with any self esteem.
TS4 Sims can live outdoors on a vacant lot and almost never need anything. Try that in older games and you will find out why TS4 is the baby of the crop and why we all know TS4 doesn't need sliders for easy -hard it needs a kick in the rear end and an old fashioned dose of reality.
It shouldn't be a breeze to be a Sim.
Before the BFF after Sims Studio took over in TS2 the Sim had to retain friends and it wasn't easy. The BFF was a way to make the game easy peasy for some. But once you got that you couldn't even break up friendships no matter what the Sim did...if you want easy just add BFF.
TS4 players are the reason TS4 is too easy for most of us. I just read where someone doesn't like they have to buy the embroidery loop to do the stitching in the Cottage Liv. pack....just have something in inventory..c'mon, I mean really..I have to shake my head. But you know, Maxis will probably hear that request and do it.