I would like to see a people of the world pack. Done as something new (Mega Pack) For LBGTQIA I'd like for our sims to be able to come out without using mods and of course of choosing the option for their preference in a partner and attraction without the use of mods for example I'd like to be able to decide if my sim is straight bi gay etc. I'd like to be able to choose for our sims to be transgender and going through the process of pre-surgery and living their lives as the gender they identify with without the use of mods. I'd like the option to choose if our sim is non-binary or cisgender without a mod.
In my area throughout the summer, we have tons of cultural festivals. Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, Cuban etc. amongst the Hispanic/LatinX people in the area. If it was all the same traditions and culture there wouldn't be a separate festival for each.
To those thinking diversity doesn't need to be addressed or improved. Please don't take offence or believe it sounds like I'm playing a race card. (Which I am not trying to do)
If Fashion games can give me more diversity than the Sims which they often do it's time for the sims team to really work on improved diversity. For a fashion game, isn't a life simulator game. I create my model and dress her up in different clothes/regalia. If I want my model to be Korean I can make my model Korean. If I want my model African American I can make the model African American. If I want a Native American or Indian or Puetro Rican Model I can do that too. They could just as easily just have less diversity with fewer face shapes, skintones, hairstyles etc. but they have more than a life simulator game like the Sims. All I'm doing in such games is dressing my model up in a way to express my individual culture and personality. Some have Native American and First Canadian regalia. I think some games actually talk with Native Americans to avoid doing anything disrespectful, insulting and lack of taste. They don't exploit a race ethnicity or culture. I can create myself if I choose in a Fashion game but not in a life simulator game like the Sims. That is just kind of... It's not about "political correctness" it's about how in real life many races cultures and ethnicities do exist and how a Life Simulation game doesn't give us the option a Fashion Game does.
Post edited by drakharis on
Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
I would like to see a people of the world pack. Done as something new (Mega Pack) For LBGTQIA I'd like for our sims to be able to come out without using mods and of course of choosing the option for their preference in a partner and attraction without the use of mods for example I'd like to be able to decide if my sim is straight bi gay etc. I'd like to be able to choose for our sims to be transgender and going through the process of pre-surgery and living their lives as the gender they identify with without the use of mods. I'd like the option to choose if our sim is non-binary or cisgender without a mod.
In my area throughout the summer, we have tons of cultural festivals. Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, Cuban etc. amongst the Hispanic/LatinX people in the area. If it was all the same traditions and culture there wouldn't be a separate festival for each.
To those thinking diversity doesn't need to be addressed or improved. Please don't take offence or believe it sounds like I'm playing a race card. (Which I am not trying to do)
If Fashion games can give me more diversity than the Sims which they often do it's time for the sims team to really work on improved diversity. For a fashion game, isn't a life simulator game. I create my model and dress her up in different clothes/regalia. If I want my model to be Korean I can make my model Korean. If I want my model African American I can make the model African American. If I want a Native American or Indian or Puetro Rican Model I can do that too. They could just as easily just have less diversity with fewer face shapes, skintones, hairstyles etc. but they have more than a life simulator game like the Sims. All I'm doing in such games is dressing my model up in a way to express my individual culture and personality. Some have Native American and First Canadian regalia. I think some games actually talk with Native Americans to avoid doing anything disrespectful, insulting and lack of taste. They don't exploit a race ethnicity or culture. I can create myself if I choose in a Fashion game but not in a life simulator game like the Sims. That is just kind of... It's not about "political correctness" it's about how in real life many races cultures and ethnicities do exist and how a Life Simulation game doesn't give us the option a Fashion Game does.
But in a "fashion game" it is only about looking pretty with absolutely ZERO meaningful gameplay features. What many of us want is more meaningful gameplay. Personally I would love more family oriented gameplay that has nothing to do with diversity, race, gender, or political correctness. I know others want more fantasy occult gameplay.
Ditto. This isnt a fashion game. Sims 4 cares too much about appearances or the superficial. People are too worried about what their sims are (gender, race) and not worried enough about WHO their sims are (personality, interests, hobbies, memories).
We want consequences and personality for our sims. Some do want political correctness or Diversity™ because as soon as something that is diverse is added, but not the kind of diversity you want (i.e shrines) it gets twitter cancelled. We're tired of the game being manipulated as a political or social issue tool. Keep activism and politics out the game and let us just play.
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
I use the game purely as escapism, I don't wish to be represented, I just want to play. Others feel differently and would like more representation and that's fine. As long as developers have their priorities right, because representation doesn't mean much if the game doesn't work as it should. Bugs and technical issues should come first.
On another note, personally there are some aspects of my life (that I won't discuss) that people have asked to be brought into the Sims, if that did happen then I would no longer be comfortable playing.
So many people play the Sims and everyone wants a different kind of game.
I would like to see a people of the world pack. Done as something new (Mega Pack)
Doesn’t sound feasible to me. Even just a fashion pack for people all over the world would require way more resources than they currently devote to packs. When you say People of the World, you can’t leave anyone out. That’s an exhaustive list. (And I wouldn’t buy a fashion pack but that’s just my opinion)
For LBGTQIA I'd like for our sims to be able to come out without using mods and of course of choosing the option for their preference in a partner and attraction without the use of mods for example I'd like to be able to decide if my sim is straight bi gay etc. I'd like to be able to choose for our sims to be transgender and going through the process of pre-surgery and living their lives as the gender they identify with without the use of mods. I'd like the option to choose if our sim is non-binary or cisgender without a mod.
Thanks for clarifying. That sounds like it could be a meaningful contribution for any orientation because it would impact gameplay.
In my area throughout the summer, we have tons of cultural festivals. Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, Cuban etc. amongst the Hispanic/LatinX people in the area. If it was all the same traditions and culture there wouldn't be a separate festival for each.
I didn’t suggest they had all the same culture or traditions. I asked for details on what you would suggest and this is still too vague.
I would like to see a people of the world pack. Done as something new (Mega Pack)
But that's the problem: The Sims world isn't our world. Mt. Komoremi isn't actually Japan, Sulani isn't actually a Pacific Island, Henford-on- Bagley isn't actually England. The Sims team might take inspiration from real world cultures, but in the Sims world, they aren't humans.
I would like to see a people of the world pack. Done as something new (Mega Pack) For LBGTQIA I'd like for our sims to be able to come out without using mods and of course of choosing the option for their preference in a partner and attraction without the use of mods for example I'd like to be able to decide if my sim is straight bi gay etc. I'd like to be able to choose for our sims to be transgender and going through the process of pre-surgery and living their lives as the gender they identify with without the use of mods. I'd like the option to choose if our sim is non-binary or cisgender without a mod.
In my area throughout the summer, we have tons of cultural festivals. Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, Cuban etc. amongst the Hispanic/LatinX people in the area. If it was all the same traditions and culture there wouldn't be a separate festival for each.
To those thinking diversity doesn't need to be addressed or improved. Please don't take offence or believe it sounds like I'm playing a race card. (Which I am not trying to do)
If Fashion games can give me more diversity than the Sims which they often do it's time for the sims team to really work on improved diversity. For a fashion game, isn't a life simulator game. I create my model and dress her up in different clothes/regalia. If I want my model to be Korean I can make my model Korean. If I want my model African American I can make the model African American. If I want a Native American or Indian or Puetro Rican Model I can do that too. They could just as easily just have less diversity with fewer face shapes, skintones, hairstyles etc. but they have more than a life simulator game like the Sims. All I'm doing in such games is dressing my model up in a way to express my individual culture and personality. Some have Native American and First Canadian regalia. I think some games actually talk with Native Americans to avoid doing anything disrespectful, insulting and lack of taste. They don't exploit a race ethnicity or culture. I can create myself if I choose in a Fashion game but not in a life simulator game like the Sims. That is just kind of... It's not about "political correctness" it's about how in real life many races cultures and ethnicities do exist and how a Life Simulation game doesn't give us the option a Fashion Game does.
The sims for me have always been a life simulator, you build worlds and houses and you make sims and play them in different scenarios and see the different outcomes and Maxis have always added to that so that you can expand your gameplay with new items, clothes and gameplay items. What's the point of representing the whole world if the world they live in is not fun to play in? What are we supposed to do with these sims from the world? Have them look at paintings? Do firedances?
They have to focus more on developing the game in my opinion because otherwise a Native American festival is going to feel no different in the game compared to a African American, you are going to stand at the same fire as the one in Island Living and Snowy Escape and watch them do firedances because right now they are just reusing the same game mechanics because they don't spend enough time developing new gameplay.
@logion Native American powwows have the men drumming and singing. Women don't drum in the drum circle at powwows however with Aztec dance is very lively and do allow for women to drum as well. There are different dances done at a public powwow. Sometimes powwows are competitive though some are purely educational for non-Native Americans to learn about the culture. In the Lower 48, the men are always the ones in the drum circle. There is always a federal agent at powwows. This isn't to protect Native Americans. They are there to make sure dances banned out of racism aren't performed at a public powwow. They are there to prevent Native Americans from talking to others about the atrocities done to the Native American people.
Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
I like the cultural aspects they've put in so far, I would only ask now for more stuff of African cultures. I feel like I haven't seen much of that and it would be a nice addition. I don't think there's anything wrong with having more things that represent cultures and for people who don't like to add mods and CC to their game (not me, I love my CC), it's nice for them to have more things that can add to it. It's as simple a stuff packs or kits, it doesn't always need to be an entire expansion or gamepack. There's also the opportunity for cultural things to add more gameplay. Representation DOES matter. It matters enough to where people had to kick up a fuss just to get decent skin tones and hairstyles. If we want to make sims the way we want, it helps if we have the tools to do that. Some people like to make themselves. It seems small but it means a lot to people, there's nothing wrong with that.
I get what you're saying, I do. But there are some parts of your point that I have to respectfully disagree with.
While I defintely understand the need for a more diverse range of representation, I don't think it should be done at the expense of other features. Especially when it's gameplay that a lot of the fanbase wants -- like farming with Cottage Living.
Occults are my main form of gameplay and part of why I actually quite enjoy TS4 despite the flaws it does have. I desperately want Werewolves, Faeries and more. And as far as I'm concerned, occult content takes the backburner enough as it is. I don't want to see it get pushed aside even more because the devs decide to focus more on representation, which I feel Sims is already doing pretty good on. Others feel family gameplay is neglected and would rather see the resources go to that rather than representation, which would mostly be visual things or simple additions.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have more of the things you mentioned like anime, tea ceremonies, stage shows, etc. But rather, they should come as a smaller addition to a pack that's centered around a broader theme that people do want. I agree Snowy Escape being a Japanese inspired and winter sports in one is a bit of an odd combination, but the fact that it introduced something a lot of people wanted -- ie winter activities as well as bringing in some of the missing representation made.
Similarily, a lot of people want a Medieval pack... so instead of focusing on England again, how about a Nordic or Scandanivan Viking Era inspired pack, which is similar enough in regards to time period? Sure it wouldn't bring about modern representation of Nordic peoples unless it was some sort of time-travel pack too, but it would be a way to bring about both content people want in terms of gameplay and representation. That way in representing other reigions, gameplay people want to see wouldn't have to be put on hold.
Or pehaps we could get Native American (and probably Candian First Nation people too)representation in conjunction with some kind of occult? It would make sense considering the wide variety of myths and folklore among the different tribes, and would give us both a new occult lifestate and representation. Two birds with one stone again.
The lack of representation problem isn't with farming or occults, but rather that those packs tend to re-represent regions we've already had. Let's say in theory, that farming had come with a pack centered around Italy + Vineyards rather than rural England, wouldn't that be considered "more representation?" (by the way, I for one am glad they chose England as inspiration rather than America for Cottage Living. This is just a hypothetical proposition.)
I think Europe gets a lot of representation more so than Americana living.
As a European who's been to the US, I find 3 Sims worlds to be clearly inspired by Europe (including Britain), namely Britechester, Windenburg and Henford-on-Bagley, and I agree that's probably enough for now.
Said so, the vast majority of the other worlds appear to be clearly inspired by various parts of the US/North America: Newcrest (typical American suburbia), Evergreen Harbor (Northwest USA), Willow Creek (Louisiana?), Magnolia Promenade (Lousiana again?), San Myshuno (San Francisco/New York), Del Sol Valley (California), Granite Falls (Oregon? Canada?), Brindleton Bay (New England), Oasis Spring (Texas?), Strangerville (Nevada/Utah/New Mexico?). Newcrest, Willow Creek and Magnolia Promenade in particular are too similar IMHO.
I for one would like to see other locations in the game inspired by other parts of the world (take San Myshuno for example, it was a missed opportunity to implement some variety as there was no need to make it look like an American city when it could have been inspired by other metropolises, e.g. from Asia or other parts of the world, like a Singapore/Dubai mix).
So on the one hand I feel there is a lot of American representation in this game, already. On the other hand, I can see why to some others it might feel some important elements of American culture have been left out.
Maybe when/if a horse pack is released it'll include BB/CAS elements related to ranching/American farms?
TS3 Store worlds were not inspired by USA except for Roaring Heights and Lucky Palms.
I regret The Sims Studio don't include more the diversity of our world.
UK isn't EU anymore, it would be nice to explore the Scandinavian, Mediterranean and East European landscapes.
Australia, Middle East, Africa, South America and Arctic (Inuit lands) would be also interesting.
I feel that groups races ethnicities and cultures not in the sims at all with ZERO representation should be a higher priority to adding in farming or for that matter occult sims. (...)
We have Pacific Islanders with representation in the game. Nothing added that is actually part of the culture like Hula dancing or even Luaus as added food and parties for our sims.
(...)
We have Japanese Representation kind of. When I think of Japan I don't think snowboarding skiing or even rock climbing. I think fishing, tokusatsu, great foods like sushi, sentai, stage shows, Tea Ceremony, anime, J-Dramas, J-Pop, manga, Japanese Gardens and so much more. Which really wasn't added with Snowy Escape. I end up just deleting and rebuilding the world.
(...)
There aren't a lot of cultures ethnicities and races represented yet in the game.
Asians are more than just the Japanese. There are Indians, Middle Easterners, Chinese, Koreans and so on.
What about European cultures with French, Italian, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese and so on.
What about Jamaicans and Haitians?
Representation is a good thing. Said so, I think the tools offered by CAS already allow us a lot of liberty in designing Sims with whatever features, skin colour etc we desire. It is up to the player then to imbue whatever ideals, projections, vision of the world etc they want in those characters. I have created multiple Sims of different ethnicities/cultural backgrounds and I am happy I was free to do so in the ways I deemed appropriate. I do not need the devs to do that for me (or worse, force it on me). Especially since there is always a genuine risk that that sort of in-game representation degenerates into shallow stereotypes, which are silly at best and highly offensive at worst.
I'm not comfortable with the game implementing this kind of "representation" because it would be at best a very superficial one. The kind where Sims with an Italian name would be sun-tanned and obsessed with football and pizza, the Sims with a French name would all wear a striped top and carry a baguette under their arm and the Jamaican ones all wear their hair in dreadlocks and wear black/green/yellow t-shirts. I'd rather create my own diversity in the game than have that sort of silly stereotypes forced on me.
In fact, I actually appreciate that computer generated NPCs often have names reflecting a specific culture and a skin colour that you wouldn't immediately associate with it if you base your idea on stereotypes (such as black-skinned Sims with a Japanese name, or a Sulani native with a local name and blond hair). It's actually refreshing as we're humans, not pedigree show dogs (this whole idea of "races" based on skin colour is antiquated and detrimental).
You mentioned that it was incoherent in your point of view that the presentation Japan received was in the Snowy Escape pack, in association with winter sports and mountain climbing. As someone who lives in Switzerland, I am actually relived that they didn't set the pack in a location inspired by the Alps, with characters yodelling all the time and dressed in Bavarian lederhosen. Instead, they merged two new interesting game aspects, a Japanese setting and mountain sports and created a very good pack IMO. At first I too was surprised by the pairing, but my friend who's into mountain climbing and has been on climbing trips to Japan twice told me it is actually a thing. For those in the know, Japan is, indeed, a climbing destination. So the devs did their homework after all. Kudos to them for doing so, instead of opting for a more banal choice like the Swiss Alps. And while they did incorporate some timeless, traditional elements of Japanese culture (like the onsen spring, the shrines, the architecture, etc) I appreciate they did not overplay other elements that would have turned Mt. Komorebi into a cartoonesque version of Japan and itself.
There is a very thin line between paying homage to a culture and depicting a silly caricature of it.
Also, we have to keep into account that in the recent past, several people from minorities or native cultures/ethnicities have expressed disdain when mainstream entertainment (such as games) incorporated elements of their culture that are actually deep and have a sacred meaning. Would the average simmer know and appreciate the deep meaning of hula dancing? Or would it be just another interaction to be used in gameplay when flirting with other sims or having a beach party? I think we can still play to our heart's content without the need to add elements that are sensitive to the native culture they belong to and trivialise them in the process.
Said so, what I would like to see in terms of representation is an element of disability. Once again, the spectrum is too rich to give representation to all the different types of experiences, but I think it would be manageable to implement at least Sims with blindness (they'd carry a white cane when moving around, other than that they'd do anything like other Sims) and Sims who use a wheelchair (there are wheelchairs that climb stairs too, so, again, a wheelchair bound Sim can still enjoy anything other sims can).
That, and more CAS outfits/hairstyles to be able to create our very own representations of whatever cultures/identities we wish to, and more BB objects/decorations that remind us of a wide spectrum of different locations/cultures of the world, to choose from when we personalise our homes/lots.
Personally I don’t need constant representation of myself to feel validated, or anything. It’s a game. It’s not real, none of it is, whether it’s based on real life or not. It’s still a game. It’s not that deep to me.
Represent yourself in real life, where it matters.
—T
Edit; a company being PC is most definitely not a “must” in fact, the more PC these companies get, the less of my money I give them. Most people have had enough of this PC rubbish. Leave it out of my game, thanks.
I miss the days when Sims was just about having fun and not being all about representation. We always had fun in Sims 1, Sims 2 and Sims 3....sadly,Sims 4 has become all about represention and being inclusive. I'm really hoping Sims 5 will be just like Sims 1-3,where everyone just had fun and nobody cared about being represented.
Yes, it's funny The Sims game was the number one game and had no such problems as TS4 needing it's representations. Why does TS2 remain the most loved? (By all walks of life). Why is TS3 the most played (I do mean played) when it has no such problems. TS4 is one weird social experiment I can do without.
I used to love the Railroad Tycoon and RollerCoaster Tycoon games...I didn't care who was puking when they got off the rides I built...I didn't care who was represented or not when they rode one of the tallest things in my game. Fun is not about if a person is blue or green but if they mimic something that could happen to me if I get on a fifty foot tall roller coaster and yes, I might puke, too. Fun. Period.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I actually had a very, very different impression. EA seem to be going above and beyond trying to include different cultures and ethnicities, and they keep on adding.
Take for example the Cottage Living expansion pack. It was based on an English farming village. In reality these villages have remained entirely Caucasian because the populations are so small and made up of families (there's one down the road from me with a population of only52). Besides that, people generally don't relocate to the middle of no where just to work in a corner shop or as a labourer on a farm, hence no diversification over time. It's sort of funny that EA made Caucasians a minority lol
It's nice that EA have introduced diversity into the type of places where there was traditionally none (in the latest EP), but I suppose I agree with you that the Island Living and Snowy Escape worlds are not so diverse. Maybe it's best to just enjoy playing the game.
The thing is though, even as an occult player I can create diversity in the game if and when I want to. The majority of my played Sims are either gay or bisexual, I've played entire storylines with transgender sims, I can go into CAS and create a Sim from any background or culture I want depending on how I actually create that sim, to a certain degree I can even go into the holiday calendar and create my own diverse cultural celebrations in a sims calendar year (it won't be perfect, but it's still doable), and depending on what expansion packs you have you can utilise additional game play to make the sims world feel more diverse.
Here's what I can't do; I can't turn a sim into a werewolf; I can't realistically create or interact with a faerie sim, beyond mere window dressing or superficial dress up (or attempting to work out how to utilise a non related pack to cheat to high heaven and still not get any actual game play mechanics); I can't summon a dragon, or befriend a unicorn, or have a sim return from the dead as a zombie, or pretty much anything else occult related that doesn't exist in the game at all.
There's already enough 'Pollyanna' realism for the realism players, there's already diversity and the opportunity for self directed diversity gameplay for the players who want that as well (I would count myself among them), but for those of us who want to play outside the box with fantastical worlds and life states, well it seems like we get tossed the scraps whilst everyone else complains about the lack of already existing features of the game.
Occult Simmer (All Occult All The Time)
Female Simmer from Australia (she/her)
I had one of my Sims marry the Grim Reaper & now they have a lot of kids.
It's not either-or. The Sims team could easily split their time between adding to representation and adding to gameplay. Representation is an important issue among the younger crowd, and honestly, I think that's a good thing. It would be boring if every Sim were the same. But in spending so much time promoting it, they're coming across as desperate for approval.
It reminds me of those commercials that try to be funny or "hip." I don't need any of that! Just calmly explain to me what the product does, and I'll decide whether I want it or not! If the Sims team did that re: diversity and representation, instead of going on and on about it, I think that would please a lot more of the fanbase than it is right now.
I think Europe gets a lot of representation more so than Americana living.
As a European who's been to the US, I find 3 Sims worlds to be clearly inspired by Europe (including Britain), namely Britechester, Windenburg and Henford-on-Bagley, and I agree that's probably enough for now.
Said so, the vast majority of the other worlds appear to be clearly inspired by various parts of the US/North America: Newcrest (typical American suburbia), Evergreen Harbor (Northwest USA), Willow Creek (Louisiana?), Magnolia Promenade (Lousiana again?), San Myshuno (San Francisco/New York), Del Sol Valley (California), Granite Falls (Oregon? Canada?), Brindleton Bay (New England), Oasis Spring (Texas?), Strangerville (Nevada/Utah/New Mexico?). Newcrest, Willow Creek and Magnolia Promenade in particular are too similar IMHO.
I for one would like to see other locations in the game inspired by other parts of the world (take San Myshuno for example, it was a missed opportunity to implement some variety as there was no need to make it look like an American city when it could have been inspired by other metropolises, e.g. from Asia or other parts of the world, like a Singapore/Dubai mix).
So on the one hand I feel there is a lot of American representation in this game, already. On the other hand, I can see why to some others it might feel some important elements of American culture have been left out.
Maybe when/if a horse pack is released it'll include BB/CAS elements related to ranching/American farms?
There is ZERO representation of the actual American Midwest. At least from my perspective. While I can possibly see it somewhat in the newest expansion pack, I have yet to see corn fields or prairie. I don't require that, but I can say that the game only represents the gentrificationed parts of the USA.
I miss the days when Sims was just about having fun and not being all about representation. We always had fun in Sims 1, Sims 2 and Sims 3....sadly,Sims 4 has become all about represention and being inclusive. I'm really hoping Sims 5 will be just like Sims 1-3,where everyone just had fun and nobody cared about being represented.
As someone who has never played sims 1, 2, or 3 and 4 being my first sims game I completely agree. Representation in this game has been overdone imo because gameplay has been getting neglected over the course the years.
It's not either-or. The Sims team could easily split their time between adding to representation and adding to gameplay. Representation is an important issue among the younger crowd, and honestly, I think that's a good thing. It would be boring if every Sim were the same. But in spending so much time promoting it, they're coming across as desperate for approval.
It reminds me of those commercials that try to be funny or "hip." I don't need any of that! Just calmly explain to me what the product does, and I'll decide whether I want it or not! If the Sims team did that re: diversity and representation, instead of going on and on about it, I think that would please a lot more of the fanbase than it is right now.
Agreed. I wish they would spend more time on both/all aspects of the game, both diversity/representation, life states, game play and fixing the bugs people have been asking to be fixed for what seems like eons now. As it is it feels like they're just giving us the bare minimum in terms of a lot of stuff.
Occult Simmer (All Occult All The Time)
Female Simmer from Australia (she/her)
I had one of my Sims marry the Grim Reaper & now they have a lot of kids.
I think Europe gets a lot of representation more so than Americana living.
As a European who's been to the US, I find 3 Sims worlds to be clearly inspired by Europe (including Britain), namely Britechester, Windenburg and Henford-on-Bagley, and I agree that's probably enough for now.
Said so, the vast majority of the other worlds appear to be clearly inspired by various parts of the US/North America: Newcrest (typical American suburbia), Evergreen Harbor (Northwest USA), Willow Creek (Louisiana?), Magnolia Promenade (Lousiana again?), San Myshuno (San Francisco/New York), Del Sol Valley (California), Granite Falls (Oregon? Canada?), Brindleton Bay (New England), Oasis Spring (Texas?), Strangerville (Nevada/Utah/New Mexico?). Newcrest, Willow Creek and Magnolia Promenade in particular are too similar IMHO.
I for one would like to see other locations in the game inspired by other parts of the world (take San Myshuno for example, it was a missed opportunity to implement some variety as there was no need to make it look like an American city when it could have been inspired by other metropolises, e.g. from Asia or other parts of the world, like a Singapore/Dubai mix).
So on the one hand I feel there is a lot of American representation in this game, already. On the other hand, I can see why to some others it might feel some important elements of American culture have been left out.
Maybe when/if a horse pack is released it'll include BB/CAS elements related to ranching/American farms?
There is ZERO representation of the actual American Midwest. At least from my perspective. While I can possibly see it somewhat in the newest expansion pack, I have yet to see corn fields or prairie. I don't require that, but I can say that the game only represents the gentrificationed parts of the USA.
No representation of Appalachia either, although many cultural elements are present in Cottage Living. You would need a way to play music together with fiddling, banjos, and a bass guitar. There would have to be deer and wandering black bears from time to time seen on a hike to a high beauty spot or waterfall. Also moonshine. 😁
But I am happy to have more crafting, canning, and chickens. That feels like home.
I think Europe gets a lot of representation more so than Americana living.
As a European who's been to the US, I find 3 Sims worlds to be clearly inspired by Europe (including Britain), namely Britechester, Windenburg and Henford-on-Bagley, and I agree that's probably enough for now.
Said so, the vast majority of the other worlds appear to be clearly inspired by various parts of the US/North America: Newcrest (typical American suburbia), Evergreen Harbor (Northwest USA), Willow Creek (Louisiana?), Magnolia Promenade (Lousiana again?), San Myshuno (San Francisco/New York), Del Sol Valley (California), Granite Falls (Oregon? Canada?), Brindleton Bay (New England), Oasis Spring (Texas?), Strangerville (Nevada/Utah/New Mexico?). Newcrest, Willow Creek and Magnolia Promenade in particular are too similar IMHO.
I for one would like to see other locations in the game inspired by other parts of the world (take San Myshuno for example, it was a missed opportunity to implement some variety as there was no need to make it look like an American city when it could have been inspired by other metropolises, e.g. from Asia or other parts of the world, like a Singapore/Dubai mix).
So on the one hand I feel there is a lot of American representation in this game, already. On the other hand, I can see why to some others it might feel some important elements of American culture have been left out.
Maybe when/if a horse pack is released it'll include BB/CAS elements related to ranching/American farms?
There is ZERO representation of the actual American Midwest. At least from my perspective. While I can possibly see it somewhat in the newest expansion pack, I have yet to see corn fields or prairie. I don't require that, but I can say that the game only represents the gentrificationed parts of the USA.
No representation of Appalachia either, although many cultural elements are present in Cottage Living. You would need a way to play music together with fiddling, banjos, and a bass guitar. There would have to be deer and wandering black bears from time to time seen on a hike to a high beauty spot or waterfall. Also moonshine. 😁
But I am happy to have more crafting, canning, and chickens. That feels like home.
Agree, and there is absolutely no representation of the people of specific Appalachia areas who are a mix of Cherokee, Black and Caucasian. We could be here for years and years if Maxis wants to go on with this representation they have begun.
In my mind CAS is a place for my imagination, not a reflection of the 'world' but where I can create anyone I want who happens to be Cherokee and Black with both facial features mixed and that is good enough for me because my world doesn't have all these hang ups so many demand today. (About every little thing).
I think Maxis did a great job on the CAS features because really unless I put a specific article of clothing on a Sim who is to know who I think they are? there lies the problem, people who think they are being diverse are really stereotyping for the sake of feeling moral superior and claiming how diverse they are by representing 'culture'. It's all an insult to think someone from a different area of the world doesn't put their pants on like anyone else and or look like anyone else.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I'd prefer vagueries such as City Living, over the utter snore-fest that was Snowy Escape. City Living did what Sims does best - give representation in inspiration, not half-done imitation. If SE had been "general Asia", think of the gameplay we could've gotten. I hear "More Representation" and one doesn't really understand how much of an ask that is until you realise how many cultures and countries exist.
This isn't an international game with fleshed out bite-sized packs released for every culture from studios who know them enough to do them well, this is an American-based game where everywhere else is pretty much a destination world with residential housing.
They do the culture they know, best. Everything else is a light touch, not a deep-dive, yet it has gameplay. Their deep-dives have no gameplay (or little of any interest), so the only solution would be CAW and easier modding tools.
Check out my 'Simming Tips' for detailed tips and tricks (TS4).
I would really like worlds based off of southeast asia. We have two somewhat based on Japan already, but none on the rest of asia which is a bit of a bummer
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In my area throughout the summer, we have tons of cultural festivals. Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, Cuban etc. amongst the Hispanic/LatinX people in the area. If it was all the same traditions and culture there wouldn't be a separate festival for each.
To those thinking diversity doesn't need to be addressed or improved. Please don't take offence or believe it sounds like I'm playing a race card. (Which I am not trying to do)
If Fashion games can give me more diversity than the Sims which they often do it's time for the sims team to really work on improved diversity. For a fashion game, isn't a life simulator game. I create my model and dress her up in different clothes/regalia. If I want my model to be Korean I can make my model Korean. If I want my model African American I can make the model African American. If I want a Native American or Indian or Puetro Rican Model I can do that too. They could just as easily just have less diversity with fewer face shapes, skintones, hairstyles etc. but they have more than a life simulator game like the Sims. All I'm doing in such games is dressing my model up in a way to express my individual culture and personality. Some have Native American and First Canadian regalia. I think some games actually talk with Native Americans to avoid doing anything disrespectful, insulting and lack of taste. They don't exploit a race ethnicity or culture. I can create myself if I choose in a Fashion game but not in a life simulator game like the Sims. That is just kind of... It's not about "political correctness" it's about how in real life many races cultures and ethnicities do exist and how a Life Simulation game doesn't give us the option a Fashion Game does.
But in a "fashion game" it is only about looking pretty with absolutely ZERO meaningful gameplay features. What many of us want is more meaningful gameplay. Personally I would love more family oriented gameplay that has nothing to do with diversity, race, gender, or political correctness. I know others want more fantasy occult gameplay.
We want consequences and personality for our sims. Some do want political correctness or Diversity™ because as soon as something that is diverse is added, but not the kind of diversity you want (i.e shrines) it gets twitter cancelled. We're tired of the game being manipulated as a political or social issue tool. Keep activism and politics out the game and let us just play.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
On another note, personally there are some aspects of my life (that I won't discuss) that people have asked to be brought into the Sims, if that did happen then I would no longer be comfortable playing.
So many people play the Sims and everyone wants a different kind of game.
Thanks for clarifying. That sounds like it could be a meaningful contribution for any orientation because it would impact gameplay.
I didn’t suggest they had all the same culture or traditions. I asked for details on what you would suggest and this is still too vague.
What exactly would it take to create yourself then?
But that's the problem: The Sims world isn't our world. Mt. Komoremi isn't actually Japan, Sulani isn't actually a Pacific Island, Henford-on- Bagley isn't actually England. The Sims team might take inspiration from real world cultures, but in the Sims world, they aren't humans.
The sims for me have always been a life simulator, you build worlds and houses and you make sims and play them in different scenarios and see the different outcomes and Maxis have always added to that so that you can expand your gameplay with new items, clothes and gameplay items. What's the point of representing the whole world if the world they live in is not fun to play in? What are we supposed to do with these sims from the world? Have them look at paintings? Do firedances?
They have to focus more on developing the game in my opinion because otherwise a Native American festival is going to feel no different in the game compared to a African American, you are going to stand at the same fire as the one in Island Living and Snowy Escape and watch them do firedances because right now they are just reusing the same game mechanics because they don't spend enough time developing new gameplay.
While I defintely understand the need for a more diverse range of representation, I don't think it should be done at the expense of other features. Especially when it's gameplay that a lot of the fanbase wants -- like farming with Cottage Living.
Occults are my main form of gameplay and part of why I actually quite enjoy TS4 despite the flaws it does have. I desperately want Werewolves, Faeries and more. And as far as I'm concerned, occult content takes the backburner enough as it is. I don't want to see it get pushed aside even more because the devs decide to focus more on representation, which I feel Sims is already doing pretty good on. Others feel family gameplay is neglected and would rather see the resources go to that rather than representation, which would mostly be visual things or simple additions.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have more of the things you mentioned like anime, tea ceremonies, stage shows, etc. But rather, they should come as a smaller addition to a pack that's centered around a broader theme that people do want. I agree Snowy Escape being a Japanese inspired and winter sports in one is a bit of an odd combination, but the fact that it introduced something a lot of people wanted -- ie winter activities as well as bringing in some of the missing representation made.
Similarily, a lot of people want a Medieval pack... so instead of focusing on England again, how about a Nordic or Scandanivan Viking Era inspired pack, which is similar enough in regards to time period? Sure it wouldn't bring about modern representation of Nordic peoples unless it was some sort of time-travel pack too, but it would be a way to bring about both content people want in terms of gameplay and representation. That way in representing other reigions, gameplay people want to see wouldn't have to be put on hold.
Or pehaps we could get Native American (and probably Candian First Nation people too)representation in conjunction with some kind of occult? It would make sense considering the wide variety of myths and folklore among the different tribes, and would give us both a new occult lifestate and representation. Two birds with one stone again.
The lack of representation problem isn't with farming or occults, but rather that those packs tend to re-represent regions we've already had. Let's say in theory, that farming had come with a pack centered around Italy + Vineyards rather than rural England, wouldn't that be considered "more representation?" (by the way, I for one am glad they chose England as inspiration rather than America for Cottage Living. This is just a hypothetical proposition.)
As a European who's been to the US, I find 3 Sims worlds to be clearly inspired by Europe (including Britain), namely Britechester, Windenburg and Henford-on-Bagley, and I agree that's probably enough for now.
Said so, the vast majority of the other worlds appear to be clearly inspired by various parts of the US/North America: Newcrest (typical American suburbia), Evergreen Harbor (Northwest USA), Willow Creek (Louisiana?), Magnolia Promenade (Lousiana again?), San Myshuno (San Francisco/New York), Del Sol Valley (California), Granite Falls (Oregon? Canada?), Brindleton Bay (New England), Oasis Spring (Texas?), Strangerville (Nevada/Utah/New Mexico?). Newcrest, Willow Creek and Magnolia Promenade in particular are too similar IMHO.
I for one would like to see other locations in the game inspired by other parts of the world (take San Myshuno for example, it was a missed opportunity to implement some variety as there was no need to make it look like an American city when it could have been inspired by other metropolises, e.g. from Asia or other parts of the world, like a Singapore/Dubai mix).
So on the one hand I feel there is a lot of American representation in this game, already. On the other hand, I can see why to some others it might feel some important elements of American culture have been left out.
Maybe when/if a horse pack is released it'll include BB/CAS elements related to ranching/American farms?
I regret The Sims Studio don't include more the diversity of our world.
UK isn't EU anymore, it would be nice to explore the Scandinavian, Mediterranean and East European landscapes.
Australia, Middle East, Africa, South America and Arctic (Inuit lands) would be also interesting.
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionRepresentation is a good thing. Said so, I think the tools offered by CAS already allow us a lot of liberty in designing Sims with whatever features, skin colour etc we desire. It is up to the player then to imbue whatever ideals, projections, vision of the world etc they want in those characters. I have created multiple Sims of different ethnicities/cultural backgrounds and I am happy I was free to do so in the ways I deemed appropriate. I do not need the devs to do that for me (or worse, force it on me). Especially since there is always a genuine risk that that sort of in-game representation degenerates into shallow stereotypes, which are silly at best and highly offensive at worst.
I'm not comfortable with the game implementing this kind of "representation" because it would be at best a very superficial one. The kind where Sims with an Italian name would be sun-tanned and obsessed with football and pizza, the Sims with a French name would all wear a striped top and carry a baguette under their arm and the Jamaican ones all wear their hair in dreadlocks and wear black/green/yellow t-shirts. I'd rather create my own diversity in the game than have that sort of silly stereotypes forced on me.
In fact, I actually appreciate that computer generated NPCs often have names reflecting a specific culture and a skin colour that you wouldn't immediately associate with it if you base your idea on stereotypes (such as black-skinned Sims with a Japanese name, or a Sulani native with a local name and blond hair). It's actually refreshing as we're humans, not pedigree show dogs (this whole idea of "races" based on skin colour is antiquated and detrimental).
You mentioned that it was incoherent in your point of view that the presentation Japan received was in the Snowy Escape pack, in association with winter sports and mountain climbing. As someone who lives in Switzerland, I am actually relived that they didn't set the pack in a location inspired by the Alps, with characters yodelling all the time and dressed in Bavarian lederhosen. Instead, they merged two new interesting game aspects, a Japanese setting and mountain sports and created a very good pack IMO. At first I too was surprised by the pairing, but my friend who's into mountain climbing and has been on climbing trips to Japan twice told me it is actually a thing. For those in the know, Japan is, indeed, a climbing destination. So the devs did their homework after all. Kudos to them for doing so, instead of opting for a more banal choice like the Swiss Alps. And while they did incorporate some timeless, traditional elements of Japanese culture (like the onsen spring, the shrines, the architecture, etc) I appreciate they did not overplay other elements that would have turned Mt. Komorebi into a cartoonesque version of Japan and itself.
There is a very thin line between paying homage to a culture and depicting a silly caricature of it.
Also, we have to keep into account that in the recent past, several people from minorities or native cultures/ethnicities have expressed disdain when mainstream entertainment (such as games) incorporated elements of their culture that are actually deep and have a sacred meaning. Would the average simmer know and appreciate the deep meaning of hula dancing? Or would it be just another interaction to be used in gameplay when flirting with other sims or having a beach party? I think we can still play to our heart's content without the need to add elements that are sensitive to the native culture they belong to and trivialise them in the process.
Said so, what I would like to see in terms of representation is an element of disability. Once again, the spectrum is too rich to give representation to all the different types of experiences, but I think it would be manageable to implement at least Sims with blindness (they'd carry a white cane when moving around, other than that they'd do anything like other Sims) and Sims who use a wheelchair (there are wheelchairs that climb stairs too, so, again, a wheelchair bound Sim can still enjoy anything other sims can).
That, and more CAS outfits/hairstyles to be able to create our very own representations of whatever cultures/identities we wish to, and more BB objects/decorations that remind us of a wide spectrum of different locations/cultures of the world, to choose from when we personalise our homes/lots.
edit: typos
Represent yourself in real life, where it matters.
—T
Edit; a company being PC is most definitely not a “must” in fact, the more PC these companies get, the less of my money I give them. Most people have had enough of this PC rubbish. Leave it out of my game, thanks.
Yes, it's funny The Sims game was the number one game and had no such problems as TS4 needing it's representations. Why does TS2 remain the most loved? (By all walks of life). Why is TS3 the most played (I do mean played) when it has no such problems. TS4 is one weird social experiment I can do without.
I used to love the Railroad Tycoon and RollerCoaster Tycoon games...I didn't care who was puking when they got off the rides I built...I didn't care who was represented or not when they rode one of the tallest things in my game. Fun is not about if a person is blue or green but if they mimic something that could happen to me if I get on a fifty foot tall roller coaster and yes, I might puke, too. Fun. Period.
Take for example the Cottage Living expansion pack. It was based on an English farming village. In reality these villages have remained entirely Caucasian because the populations are so small and made up of families (there's one down the road from me with a population of only52). Besides that, people generally don't relocate to the middle of no where just to work in a corner shop or as a labourer on a farm, hence no diversification over time. It's sort of funny that EA made Caucasians a minority lol
It's nice that EA have introduced diversity into the type of places where there was traditionally none (in the latest EP), but I suppose I agree with you that the Island Living and Snowy Escape worlds are not so diverse. Maybe it's best to just enjoy playing the game.
Here's what I can't do; I can't turn a sim into a werewolf; I can't realistically create or interact with a faerie sim, beyond mere window dressing or superficial dress up (or attempting to work out how to utilise a non related pack to cheat to high heaven and still not get any actual game play mechanics); I can't summon a dragon, or befriend a unicorn, or have a sim return from the dead as a zombie, or pretty much anything else occult related that doesn't exist in the game at all.
There's already enough 'Pollyanna' realism for the realism players, there's already diversity and the opportunity for self directed diversity gameplay for the players who want that as well (I would count myself among them), but for those of us who want to play outside the box with fantastical worlds and life states, well it seems like we get tossed the scraps whilst everyone else complains about the lack of already existing features of the game.
Female Simmer from Australia (she/her)
I had one of my Sims marry the Grim Reaper & now they have a lot of kids.
It reminds me of those commercials that try to be funny or "hip." I don't need any of that! Just calmly explain to me what the product does, and I'll decide whether I want it or not! If the Sims team did that re: diversity and representation, instead of going on and on about it, I think that would please a lot more of the fanbase than it is right now.
There is ZERO representation of the actual American Midwest. At least from my perspective. While I can possibly see it somewhat in the newest expansion pack, I have yet to see corn fields or prairie. I don't require that, but I can say that the game only represents the gentrificationed parts of the USA.
As someone who has never played sims 1, 2, or 3 and 4 being my first sims game I completely agree. Representation in this game has been overdone imo because gameplay has been getting neglected over the course the years.
Agreed. I wish they would spend more time on both/all aspects of the game, both diversity/representation, life states, game play and fixing the bugs people have been asking to be fixed for what seems like eons now. As it is it feels like they're just giving us the bare minimum in terms of a lot of stuff.
Female Simmer from Australia (she/her)
I had one of my Sims marry the Grim Reaper & now they have a lot of kids.
No representation of Appalachia either, although many cultural elements are present in Cottage Living. You would need a way to play music together with fiddling, banjos, and a bass guitar. There would have to be deer and wandering black bears from time to time seen on a hike to a high beauty spot or waterfall. Also moonshine. 😁
But I am happy to have more crafting, canning, and chickens. That feels like home.
Agree, and there is absolutely no representation of the people of specific Appalachia areas who are a mix of Cherokee, Black and Caucasian. We could be here for years and years if Maxis wants to go on with this representation they have begun.
In my mind CAS is a place for my imagination, not a reflection of the 'world' but where I can create anyone I want who happens to be Cherokee and Black with both facial features mixed and that is good enough for me because my world doesn't have all these hang ups so many demand today. (About every little thing).
I think Maxis did a great job on the CAS features because really unless I put a specific article of clothing on a Sim who is to know who I think they are? there lies the problem, people who think they are being diverse are really stereotyping for the sake of feeling moral superior and claiming how diverse they are by representing 'culture'. It's all an insult to think someone from a different area of the world doesn't put their pants on like anyone else and or look like anyone else.
This isn't an international game with fleshed out bite-sized packs released for every culture from studios who know them enough to do them well, this is an American-based game where everywhere else is pretty much a destination world with residential housing.
They do the culture they know, best. Everything else is a light touch, not a deep-dive, yet it has gameplay. Their deep-dives have no gameplay (or little of any interest), so the only solution would be CAW and easier modding tools.