I think performance plays a larger role than many are willing to accept. While watching Devon Bumpkins tour of the 64x64 lot he built he mentioned that he was asked to remove some items. Some build/buy objects and some of the new garden plots. The reason given? Player optimization. I don't think we're going to see any future worlds with more than 12 lots. Especially if as rumored the game still has a couple of years to go.
Edited to add: Watching Clair Siobhan's cottage build video and she also mentioned they have limitations to what they can do. They submit their build to the Sims team and the team runs it on a computer with very basic performance. If it doesn't play well it goes back to the builder for modification. They're not allowed to use a lot of wallpaper styles, can't use a lot of mirrors, can't use doors that have glass and allow you to see through the house because that causes rendering problems.
Sims 4 is much better, and more free, than Sims 3.
I have never understood everyone who gushes over Sims 3 when it was
1. Buggy
2. WAY too unoptimized (was lagging and stuttering even on GOOD computers)
3. Actually MORE confining.
Yes it was an "open world", but you were locked in the world. The playable area in Sims 4 is at least 20 times larger since you can seamlessly move from world to world at will.
There are plenty of open world games that don't have anywhere near the level of bugs The Sims 3 had.
I didn't buy the "open worlds are buggy" excuse in 2006 when I played Oblivion, I didn't buy it in 2009 when I played The Sims 3, and I don't buy it in 2021.
I am not sure what you are saying; I am explicitly pointing out I don't get people who own or have played Sims 3 and keeps trying to argue that the world is smaller in Sims 4 when it is in fact much MUCH larger due to travel between worlds. Plus the fact that Sims 3's open world, specifically was very very badly optimized and ran like llama manure even on games that could handle much more advanced games at the time.
Sims 4 is much better, and more free, than Sims 3.
I have never understood everyone who gushes over Sims 3 when it was
1. Buggy
2. WAY too unoptimized (was lagging and stuttering even on GOOD computers)
3. Actually MORE confining.
Yes it was an "open world", but you were locked in the world. The playable area in Sims 4 is at least 20 times larger since you can seamlessly move from world to world at will.
There are plenty of open world games that don't have anywhere near the level of bugs The Sims 3 had.
I didn't buy the "open worlds are buggy" excuse in 2006 when I played Oblivion, I didn't buy it in 2009 when I played The Sims 3, and I don't buy it in 2021.
I am not sure what you are saying; I am explicitly pointing out I don't get people who own or have played Sims 3 and keeps trying to argue that the world is smaller in Sims 4 when it is in fact much MUCH larger due to travel between worlds. Plus the fact that Sims 3's open world, specifically was very very badly optimized and ran like llama manure even on games that could handle much more advanced games at the time.
I see what you saying but the thing is you have leave that world and some people want to do more in one neighborhood than what Sims 4 can provide. I also see what the Kwanzaabot is saying and I agree with him/her. Sims 4 is literally stuck in whatever tech that was in 2014 even if now has 64 bit capabilities. You can't change the layout in neighborhoods and this 2021. An customer for me is forced to make an story to how EA/Maxis want you to write it if you want to make an bigger story in one neighborhood. Now if Sims 3 was not optimized whose fault is that? and to make matters worse what make me think Sims 4 is really optimized and it has way less features than Sims 3 and was stripped to ensure to run smoother and for some that is not possible and hardware in most cases cannot be at fault as the game does not really scale up or down as it did in Sims 3. I had seven systems and when I played on them those systems I got varying results good and bad as again Sims 3 did scale up or down. If I encountered any hiccups it was mainly due to developer error so it is not like EA/Maxis are innocent free of any blame and why I do not give EA/Maxis credit. Now if Sims 4 had the capabilities that Sims 3 had with the world creation and plus the ability to connect whatever world you create, for me Sims 4 would have been tops and how many worlds that could be connected would be depended on your systems resources otherwise known as bells and whistles. Having connected Neighborhoods in Sims 4 is nice but it is limiting.
Post edited by Goldmoldar on
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Because the worlds are all tied in one single save as it was in The Sims 1 and The Sims Online with the neighborhoods.
One big world per save like in both The Sims 2 and The Sims 3 is a much better concept. We only wanted the ability to change from world to each other without losing progress and relationships, nothing more.
Having all the worlds combined is bad because of restrictions!
Expansions barely expand because things like apartments, beaches, mountains are tied to one or two places. In both TS2 and TS3 things like that would have to be designed to be applied to every world.
Sims from one place working on another or going on public lots kills the immersion.
The ammount of set dressing is overwhelming and bad to creativity. I hate when a build or landscape doesn't match the world so when it's time to build the options become restrictive.
Also because of that we missed editing the worlds, create our own worlds, 3D maps, transportation, etc...
The world system is one of the worst things in The Sims 4!
Screw that! If they go back to "you're stuck in one world forever and ever", I'm sticking with TS4. It's much more realistic to be able to visit and live in different worlds than it is to be stuck in the same hometown forever.
And no, the "downtown" in TS2 is not a different world. It's just downtown Pleasantview.
I think performance plays a larger role than many are willing to accept. While watching Devon Bumpkins tour of the 64x64 lot he built he mentioned that he was asked to remove some items. Some build/buy objects and some of the new garden plots. The reason given? Player optimization. I don't think we're going to see any future worlds with more than 12 lots. Especially if as rumored the game still has a couple of years to go.
Edited to add: Watching Clair Siobhan's cottage build video and she also mentioned they have limitations to what they can do. They submit their build to the Sims team and the team runs it on a computer with very basic performance. If it doesn't play well it goes back to the builder for modification. They're not allowed to use a lot of wallpaper styles, can't use a lot of mirrors, can't use doors that have glass and allow you to see through the house because that causes rendering problems.
Wow I didn't know that. Thanks for the information.
I feel like we can speculate until the moon drops but only the developers know best on how much this game can handle and I trust they are trying to make the best performance for everyone. I think they are well aware that only lucky people (and I'm not one of them) can run Ts3 without issues and they don't want that for ts4. So I appreciate their efforts even if it means sacrifices because this game runs like a dream for me. With ts3 it was constant stress about what precious save I'm going to loose or when the next crash is coming, lag and glitches even after following all the steps and advice for how to run on a new gaming PC.
Although I have no issues people already complain about lag and other issues with ts4 (I think it's PC related personally)
Now imagine they add open world, 100 64x64 lots, create a style, color wheel and everything else people are wanting. The only thing Devs are going to have is a pile of mounting complaints about who can't play and whos game is crashing.
My sister had a ps4 before she got a ps5. The ps4 cannot even handle the sims. She had a LOT of issues and I hear that a lot from other console players. Don't forget we have console players plus not everyone can afford the latest and greatest gaming PC.
I know people try to compare the sims with other open world games but they are NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING like the sims. The sims is a VERY complex game in comparison and no one can dispute that there literally is no other game like it. It's just not comparable. and what works for those games will not just magically apply to a game like the sims. Why do you think paralives have not even started gameplay yet. They have been asking what people want to see for 2 years now. But I think they are realizing to put it all together with intelligent AI, path finding, coding, and everything else it entails BUG FREE is whole nother animal.
I want to see more years of a smooth performing ts4
I play more Sims3 than Sims4, and the towns/worlds in Sims3 are vastly better for all the reasons discussed, but the mobility to travel between them freely in Sims4 makes up for the lack of lots and playable world somewhat. In Sims3 the depth of each pack is great, but you're trapped there and can't travel unless you want to leave everything behind and start over, so you can't just decide to go out for a night on the town in the city of Bridgeport if you live in Appaloosa Plains. You're stuck wherever you live, and that feels claustrophobic.
Sims 4 is much better, and more free, than Sims 3.
I have never understood everyone who gushes over Sims 3 when it was
1. Buggy
2. WAY too unoptimized (was lagging and stuttering even on GOOD computers)
3. Actually MORE confining.
Yes it was an "open world", but you were locked in the world. The playable area in Sims 4 is at least 20 times larger since you can seamlessly move from world to world at will.
There are plenty of open world games that don't have anywhere near the level of bugs The Sims 3 had.
I didn't buy the "open worlds are buggy" excuse in 2006 when I played Oblivion, I didn't buy it in 2009 when I played The Sims 3, and I don't buy it in 2021.
I am not sure what you are saying; I am explicitly pointing out I don't get people who own or have played Sims 3 and keeps trying to argue that the world is smaller in Sims 4 when it is in fact much MUCH larger due to travel between worlds. Plus the fact that Sims 3's open world, specifically was very very badly optimized and ran like llama manure even on games that could handle much more advanced games at the time.
I play both Sims 3 and Sims 4. In Sims 3, when I travel to a different world, there are different sims there. Be it a World Adventure world, University, the future, or, since I use mods, any world reached by traveler. If a sim from, say, France visits the home city, it's clear that they're a tourist. In Sims 4, no matter where I go, sims from other worlds are there living their lives. It does not feel like different worlds when Judith Ward is voting on a NAP in the eco living world or Victor Feng is rummaging through the garbage there.
Sims 3 does need modern hardware to play well, but on modern hardware, at least for me, it plays better than Sims 4. It makes sense that it does given that a high end computer from 10 years ago could handle the calculations required. Both games are poorly optimized and rife with spaghetti code.
Most open world, single player games do not have the entire world loaded at once, and that's true of Sims 3 as well.
I personally don't think the game can handle anymore and deliver the amount of content they currently do in EPs still. Now whether or not one feels that lately the EPs provide an adequate amount of content is a whole other issue but depending on where one falls on that issue it says a lot about the current state of the game. They wanted a game that can play well on low end computer systems and that they could make last for longer while being more stable and that meant making choices that some may not be happy with.
I'm not happy with a lot of the choices made for Sims 4, I feel like I've written while stories about it. Some are great but the cons outweigh the pros for me and the world sizes and number of lots happens to be a big con. I prefer having larger worlds I can place even more lots in and fill as much as I want but I did want to be able to travel between the worlds. But if I had to deal with smaller worlds I can't place any lots in, in exchange for being able to travel between worlds I'd rather not travel between worlds because I can't situate my sims and townies like I want to. I feel like there was a better way to go about it, especially considering they were kinda half way there or at least had a blueprint of sorts with how World Adventures worked, but I don't know if it would've helped them cater to low end systems like they want meaning everyone has to suffer. That's something I personally don't like either when it comes to The Sims. I get that it stinks being left behind and not being able to play or only being able to play on a poor laptop, I've been there, but I'd much rather the game be great and I save money to buy a system for it or play a Sims lite game like Sims Stories until then. I actually miss them doing side Sims games and would play them even if I had somr fancy, overkill $6000 system.
I feel like there's another thing that should be taken into consideration too that they probably won't say but players and mod creators who look into their code have. They poorly code the game. There are players on PC (and especially on console) experiencing lag and bugs, it's not running well and their systems are more than capable of handling it and this isn't the first Sims game people have had these experiences with. It's been happening since Sims 2 so yeah, they can decide not to do a colorwheel, create a style and remove the ability to add lots, and more but the games keep running into similar problems regardless. I'm not by any means saying it should be flawless because they're always bound to miss something but every single game in the main series almost (not sure about Sims 1) tends to need mods or workarounds for big issues and the precautions they took to try to prevent lagging and improve the experience don't seem to have worked all that well with Sims 4 yet they're talking possibly 3 to 5 more years so at what point do they start dig deeper in house to figure out what, why and how this keeps happening instead?
I've said it before and I don't really see laundry lists making a world of difference but I see Sims 4 headed down the same path of Sims 3. They can start making worlds with 5 to 10 lots but it's still the same old song. Same thing with a somewhat more creatively limited game. This is why I want to see them focus solely on single player before attempting multi-player or story mode. I see so much potential and I do think it's possible to have a great game that runs well and puts more creative options and features in players hands but they need to work on their delivery still. The series is over 20 years old and with technology as advanced as it is and it still isn't as advanced of a game as it could be, there's definitely still a lot they can do with The Sims, I absolutely agree with all the gurus who say that. It's just that they need a great and solid foundation to start those things on and everything they build onto that foundation needs to be just as solid. Then I could definitely see a Sims game lasting 10 years. I just don't think they've made the choices they need to in order to get to that point yet.
I personally don't think the game can handle anymore and deliver the amount of content they currently do in EPs still. Now whether or not one feels that lately the EPs provide an adequate amount of content is a whole other issue but depending on where one falls on that issue it says a lot about the current state of the game. They wanted a game that can play well on low end computer systems and that they could make last for longer while being more stable and that meant making choices that some may not be happy with.
I'm not happy with a lot of the choices made for Sims 4, I feel like I've written while stories about it. Some are great but the cons outweigh the pros for me and the world sizes and number of lots happens to be a big con. I prefer having larger worlds I can place even more lots in and fill as much as I want but I did want to be able to travel between the worlds. But if I had to deal with smaller worlds I can't place any lots in, in exchange for being able to travel between worlds I'd rather not travel between worlds because I can't situate my sims and townies like I want to. I feel like there was a better way to go about it, especially considering they were kinda half way there or at least had a blueprint of sorts with how World Adventures worked, but I don't know if it would've helped them cater to low end systems like they want meaning everyone has to suffer. That's something I personally don't like either when it comes to The Sims. I get that it stinks being left behind and not being able to play or only being able to play on a poor laptop, I've been there, but I'd much rather the game be great and I save money to buy a system for it or play a Sims lite game like Sims Stories until then. I actually miss them doing side Sims games and would play them even if I had somr fancy, overkill $6000 system.
I feel like there's another thing that should be taken into consideration too that they probably won't say but players and mod creators who look into their code have. They poorly code the game. There are players on PC (and especially on console) experiencing lag and bugs, it's not running well and their systems are more than capable of handling it and this isn't the first Sims game people have had these experiences with. It's been happening since Sims 2 so yeah, they can decide not to do a colorwheel, create a style and remove the ability to add lots, and more but the games keep running into similar problems regardless. I'm not by any means saying it should be flawless because they're always bound to miss something but every single game in the main series almost (not sure about Sims 1) tends to need mods or workarounds for big issues and the precautions they took to try to prevent lagging and improve the experience don't seem to have worked all that well with Sims 4 yet they're talking possibly 3 to 5 more years so at what point do they start dig deeper in house to figure out what, why and how this keeps happening instead?
I've said it before and I don't really see laundry lists making a world of difference but I see Sims 4 headed down the same path of Sims 3. They can start making worlds with 5 to 10 lots but it's still the same old song. Same thing with a somewhat more creatively limited game. This is why I want to see them focus solely on single player before attempting multi-player or story mode. I see so much potential and I do think it's possible to have a great game that runs well and puts more creative options and features in players hands but they need to work on their delivery still. The series is over 20 years old and with technology as advanced as it is and it still isn't as advanced of a game as it could be, there's definitely still a lot they can do with The Sims, I absolutely agree with all the gurus who say that. It's just that they need a great and solid foundation to start those things on and everything they build onto that foundation needs to be just as solid. Then I could definitely see a Sims game lasting 10 years. I just don't think they've made the choices they need to in order to get to that point yet.
I concur with your post
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To be 100% frank, the Engine chosen for this game is just bad. I have said it before, you have to realize the engine's limitations: We should not be mad at the developers for not managing to tow a concrete block with a bicycle.
HOWEVER, it is fair game to criticize the devs for showing up to the building site with a bicycle instead of a dump truck to begin with.
However, there are a few things things to remember about it:
1. The game was originally, and quite far into development, envisioned as a mandatory multiplayer Online Only game.
2. When focus (thank God) changed, the then Dev team had to scramble to change engine and had to use a not finished one. Remember, the reason there were no pools at launch was not because of pools, but because of basements. The game engine could not make basements, and since pools are utilizing a basement mechanic to be created...
3. Tying into the points above: The present dev team is NOT completely identical to the original one, we really cannot fairly blame them for anything engine related and they should instead get all the props for managing to squeeze out so much functionality anyway
That said, either the release of Sims 4 should have been delayed a year or so to optimize the engine beforehand, OR Seasons should have been the last expansion pack and Sims 5 should have been released 2018 or 2019, with a completely new engine.
A modern game, on a few years old computer with optimized engine can definitely support everything Sims 2, 3 and 4 can do combined. Plus more. I will not pit two games against each other but Paralive's build mode is basically what I expected a full budget Sims 5 released 2018 to be able to do.
Not to add fuel to the fire, but in TS2 you can easily put 24-36 lots into a world - depending on lot size. Every one of those is functional and community lots can be multi-purpose. A bowling alley can be just that, not slaved to a venue like a bar that's not family/kid appropriate. We can tinker with and decorate the worlds to our heart's content. And that's not counting the subsidiary worlds the game provides and we can add. True, you are confined to one lot at a time, but there is no fakery, no mere backdrop you want to go to but can't.
Not to add fuel to the fire, but in TS2 you can easily put 24-36 lots into a world - depending on lot size. Every one of those is functional and community lots can be multi-purpose. A bowling alley can be just that, not slaved to a venue like a bar that's not family/kid appropriate. We can tinker with and decorate the worlds to our heart's content. And that's not counting the subsidiary worlds the game provides and we can add. True, you are confined to one lot at a time, but there is no fakery, no mere backdrop you want to go to but can't.
I agree with you 100 percent! You could enjoy having multi-purpose lots in both Sims 1 and Sims 2. In Sims 4,mult-purpose lots don't even exist. We hardly get any new venues or new lot types in Sims 4,we just keep getting the same boring bars,lackluster libraries and generic gyms in each new world we get. It's mostly bars that are plunked into new worlds;No cinemas or game arcades or tennis courts or laundromats or anything that would expand gameplay-just the same boring bars over and over and over and over again. So far,the only world without a bar is the Vampires pack-all the other worlds have bars plunked into them.
I'm hoping Sims 5 will come soon,and that it will have a bunch of elements from Sims 1-3,and have the graphics and basement tool of Sims 4. Sims 5 should come at the end of this year or early next year.
Because the worlds are all tied in one single save as it was in The Sims 1 and The Sims Online with the neighborhoods.
One big world per save like in both The Sims 2 and The Sims 3 is a much better concept. We only wanted the ability to change from world to each other without losing progress and relationships, nothing more.
Having all the worlds combined is bad because of restrictions!
Expansions barely expand because things like apartments, beaches, mountains are tied to one or two places. In both TS2 and TS3 things like that would have to be designed to be applied to every world.
Sims from one place working on another or going on public lots kills the immersion.
The ammount of set dressing is overwhelming and bad to creativity. I hate when a build or landscape doesn't match the world so when it's time to build the options become restrictive.
Also because of that we missed editing the worlds, create our own worlds, 3D maps, transportation, etc...
The world system is one of the worst things in The Sims 4!
Screw that! If they go back to "you're stuck in one world forever and ever", I'm sticking with TS4. It's much more realistic to be able to visit and live in different worlds than it is to be stuck in the same hometown forever.
And no, the "downtown" in TS2 is not a different world. It's just downtown Pleasantview.
I didn't said once that we should be stucked in a world forever because that's not even true. You can change to another world in TS3 but you lose every progress. As I said: We only wanted the ability to change from world to each other without losing progress and relationships, nothing more (I think this sentence is self explanatory)
I didn't even mentioned TS2 downtown so I don't get your point.
In my opinion having all worlds together is not even realistic. Why are for example the Goths walking on an inspired England world when they literally live and work in inspired North America? Is that realistic? Hell no!
Having all world combined is so restrictive. Also it can be a pain in the axx for rotative players without story progression.
Yes. A lot of the packs are tempting. I’m trying to more objective about what I buy.
I have packs I wish I could refund. (Why did I buy JTB? 😭🤦🏼♂️)
It’s hard though. I have managed to get most packs on sale this year. The full price ones were Paranormal Stuff and Oasis Courtyard Kit. Which is a big improvement!
Thankfully DHD didn’t appeal. But now there’s Cottage Living to consider. 🤷🏼♂️🙄🤦🏼♂️.
I think performance plays a larger role than many are willing to accept. While watching Devon Bumpkins tour of the 64x64 lot he built he mentioned that he was asked to remove some items. Some build/buy objects and some of the new garden plots. The reason given? Player optimization. I don't think we're going to see any future worlds with more than 12 lots. Especially if as rumored the game still has a couple of years to go.
Edited to add: Watching Clair Siobhan's cottage build video and she also mentioned they have limitations to what they can do. They submit their build to the Sims team and the team runs it on a computer with very basic performance. If it doesn't play well it goes back to the builder for modification. They're not allowed to use a lot of wallpaper styles, can't use a lot of mirrors, can't use doors that have glass and allow you to see through the house because that causes rendering problems.
I think that plays a large role in how the lots are built and how large the neighborhoods are. I'm not sure if it affects how many neighborhoods you can have though since the game removes the neighborhood when you travel and load another one.
It will be interesting to see how well Henford on Bagley will perform though because I thought the zones were pretty big, I wonder how well they will run with post processing effects while it's raining or snowing.
Well, because this isn't Sims 3. Sims 4 is designed to be able to play all worlds and have the freedom to move around as much as you want. When you allow that, there have to be limitations somewhere or a game as huge as The Sims will get bogged down quickly. Sims 3 had restrictions in that you could only use/live in one main world at a time so they made it larger. Sims 2 had more mid-sized worlds but still had some additional worlds be able to "connect" so you could have Sims living Downtown or at Uni or in that world that came with Open For Business and you had a bit more freedom but still not as much as Sims 4.
I love the connected worlds of TS4 the best for gameplay variety because I can have my Sims living all over the place, in a plethora of environments. I don't need to cram them all into one world where nothing ever changes. The only caveat (and it's a big one) is not being able to edit the worlds. In all games before this we could switch our lots around and place them and alter the objects in the environment. It really stinks that we can't do that at all in TS4. Even if we could just replace the playgrounds and picnic areas and monuments and stuff, it would make a big difference. Gawd, I hate those playgrounds.
The thing is that you can change the world by yourself. In The Sims 4 that creative part of game was almost full removed (I say almost because you can edit the lots but not the world itself) and that's beyond disappointing to me!
I think performance plays a larger role than many are willing to accept. While watching Devon Bumpkins tour of the 64x64 lot he built he mentioned that he was asked to remove some items. Some build/buy objects and some of the new garden plots. The reason given? Player optimization. I don't think we're going to see any future worlds with more than 12 lots. Especially if as rumored the game still has a couple of years to go.
Edited to add: Watching Clair Siobhan's cottage build video and she also mentioned they have limitations to what they can do. They submit their build to the Sims team and the team runs it on a computer with very basic performance. If it doesn't play well it goes back to the builder for modification. They're not allowed to use a lot of wallpaper styles, can't use a lot of mirrors, can't use doors that have glass and allow you to see through the house because that causes rendering problems.
I think that plays a large role in how the lots are built and how large the neighborhoods are. I'm not sure if it affects how many neighborhoods you can have though since the game removes the neighborhood when you travel and load another one.
It will be interesting to see how well Henford on Bagley will perform though because I thought the zones were pretty big, I wonder how well they will run with post processing effects while it's raining or snowing.
What a lot of people on here (and in youtube comments) fail to realize is that the other half of the player base have very old computers. I was dumbstruck (literally) when I realized how many people were in uproar when 64 bits became mandatory for the game to work with new expansions. 32 bit PCs stopped being manufactured some 15 years ago(!!) and yet so very many players complained.
This, if nothing else, is an indicator that (and pardon me for saying this!) many Sims players are not "gamers", they play well... Sims. Again I do not mean this as some "gamers" do, absolutely not, but EA and the Devs definitely know the people that play the game on what is basically potatoes with a keyboard.
(Btw, a poll made by Steam, often considered "the" gaming platform on PC, show that more than 60% of customers there play on older computers and only some 15% have 4K screens, 1080p being the most common and even lower resolutions are more common than 4K. In short, the myth of the "PC master race gamers" is a myth, nothing else).
Again, I am NOT trying to make fun of people using older computers, but the opposite: Most players of the Sims have computers older than 3-4 years, definitely, OR newer computers not optimized for gaming (aka using the computer they use for college classes for gaming etc).
I think performance plays a larger role than many are willing to accept. While watching Devon Bumpkins tour of the 64x64 lot he built he mentioned that he was asked to remove some items. Some build/buy objects and some of the new garden plots. The reason given? Player optimization. I don't think we're going to see any future worlds with more than 12 lots. Especially if as rumored the game still has a couple of years to go.
Edited to add: Watching Clair Siobhan's cottage build video and she also mentioned they have limitations to what they can do. They submit their build to the Sims team and the team runs it on a computer with very basic performance. If it doesn't play well it goes back to the builder for modification. They're not allowed to use a lot of wallpaper styles, can't use a lot of mirrors, can't use doors that have glass and allow you to see through the house because that causes rendering problems.
I think that plays a large role in how the lots are built and how large the neighborhoods are. I'm not sure if it affects how many neighborhoods you can have though since the game removes the neighborhood when you travel and load another one.
It will be interesting to see how well Henford on Bagley will perform though because I thought the zones were pretty big, I wonder how well they will run with post processing effects while it's raining or snowing.
(Btw, a poll made by Steam, often considered "the" gaming platform on PC, show that more than 60% of customers there play on older computers and only some 15% have 4K screens, 1080p being the most common and even lower resolutions are more common than 4K. In short, the myth of the "PC master race gamers" is a myth, nothing else).
I get what you're saying but I want to point out that 4k is not a gaming resolution. Most "gamers" will prefer 1080p because of the framerates they can get. It's hard to get 200+ fps on a giant 4k monitor.
I think performance plays a larger role than many are willing to accept. While watching Devon Bumpkins tour of the 64x64 lot he built he mentioned that he was asked to remove some items. Some build/buy objects and some of the new garden plots. The reason given? Player optimization. I don't think we're going to see any future worlds with more than 12 lots. Especially if as rumored the game still has a couple of years to go.
Edited to add: Watching Clair Siobhan's cottage build video and she also mentioned they have limitations to what they can do. They submit their build to the Sims team and the team runs it on a computer with very basic performance. If it doesn't play well it goes back to the builder for modification. They're not allowed to use a lot of wallpaper styles, can't use a lot of mirrors, can't use doors that have glass and allow you to see through the house because that causes rendering problems.
I think that plays a large role in how the lots are built and how large the neighborhoods are. I'm not sure if it affects how many neighborhoods you can have though since the game removes the neighborhood when you travel and load another one.
It will be interesting to see how well Henford on Bagley will perform though because I thought the zones were pretty big, I wonder how well they will run with post processing effects while it's raining or snowing.
What a lot of people on here (and in youtube comments) fail to realize is that the other half of the player base have very old computers. I was dumbstruck (literally) when I realized how many people were in uproar when 64 bits became mandatory for the game to work with new expansions. 32 bit PCs stopped being manufactured some 15 years ago(!!) and yet so very many players complained.
This, if nothing else, is an indicator that (and pardon me for saying this!) many Sims players are not "gamers", they play well... Sims. Again I do not mean this as some "gamers" do, absolutely not, but EA and the Devs definitely know the people that play the game on what is basically potatoes with a keyboard.
(Btw, a poll made by Steam, often considered "the" gaming platform on PC, show that more than 60% of customers there play on older computers and only some 15% have 4K screens, 1080p being the most common and even lower resolutions are more common than 4K. In short, the myth of the "PC master race gamers" is a myth, nothing else).
Again, I am NOT trying to make fun of people using older computers, but the opposite: Most players of the Sims have computers older than 3-4 years, definitely, OR newer computers not optimized for gaming (aka using the computer they use for college classes for gaming etc).
I don't think more neighborhoods should have an affect on performance unless there is a "total" somewhere that the game can't handle. Doesn't matter if you are playing on an older computer or not. After all, these people who are playing on their old computers can play and run other worlds who have more lots just fine.
The amount of objects and lots in a neighborhood does matter though and probably other things like lot and sim info, so it's not unlikely that they are also doing this because they want to drag out the sims4 for many more years.
I think performance plays a larger role than many are willing to accept. While watching Devon Bumpkins tour of the 64x64 lot he built he mentioned that he was asked to remove some items. Some build/buy objects and some of the new garden plots. The reason given? Player optimization. I don't think we're going to see any future worlds with more than 12 lots. Especially if as rumored the game still has a couple of years to go.
Edited to add: Watching Clair Siobhan's cottage build video and she also mentioned they have limitations to what they can do. They submit their build to the Sims team and the team runs it on a computer with very basic performance. If it doesn't play well it goes back to the builder for modification. They're not allowed to use a lot of wallpaper styles, can't use a lot of mirrors, can't use doors that have glass and allow you to see through the house because that causes rendering problems.
I think that plays a large role in how the lots are built and how large the neighborhoods are. I'm not sure if it affects how many neighborhoods you can have though since the game removes the neighborhood when you travel and load another one.
It will be interesting to see how well Henford on Bagley will perform though because I thought the zones were pretty big, I wonder how well they will run with post processing effects while it's raining or snowing.
(Btw, a poll made by Steam, often considered "the" gaming platform on PC, show that more than 60% of customers there play on older computers and only some 15% have 4K screens, 1080p being the most common and even lower resolutions are more common than 4K. In short, the myth of the "PC master race gamers" is a myth, nothing else).
I get what you're saying but I want to point out that 4k is not a gaming resolution. Most "gamers" will prefer 1080p because of the framerates they can get. It's hard to get 200+ fps on a giant 4k monitor.
200 FPs? Sure. How about 60Fps? Because that's what PS5 and Xbox is promising on a 4K screen.
I think performance plays a larger role than many are willing to accept. While watching Devon Bumpkins tour of the 64x64 lot he built he mentioned that he was asked to remove some items. Some build/buy objects and some of the new garden plots. The reason given? Player optimization. I don't think we're going to see any future worlds with more than 12 lots. Especially if as rumored the game still has a couple of years to go.
Edited to add: Watching Clair Siobhan's cottage build video and she also mentioned they have limitations to what they can do. They submit their build to the Sims team and the team runs it on a computer with very basic performance. If it doesn't play well it goes back to the builder for modification. They're not allowed to use a lot of wallpaper styles, can't use a lot of mirrors, can't use doors that have glass and allow you to see through the house because that causes rendering problems.
I think that plays a large role in how the lots are built and how large the neighborhoods are. I'm not sure if it affects how many neighborhoods you can have though since the game removes the neighborhood when you travel and load another one.
It will be interesting to see how well Henford on Bagley will perform though because I thought the zones were pretty big, I wonder how well they will run with post processing effects while it's raining or snowing.
(Btw, a poll made by Steam, often considered "the" gaming platform on PC, show that more than 60% of customers there play on older computers and only some 15% have 4K screens, 1080p being the most common and even lower resolutions are more common than 4K. In short, the myth of the "PC master race gamers" is a myth, nothing else).
I get what you're saying but I want to point out that 4k is not a gaming resolution. Most "gamers" will prefer 1080p because of the framerates they can get. It's hard to get 200+ fps on a giant 4k monitor.
200 FPs? Sure. How about 60Fps? Because that's what PS5 and Xbox is promising on a 4K screen.
60 fps is not an acceptable framerate for many "serious" PC gamers. My point is that we cannot tell if someone is a serious gamer based on 4k because a lot of gamers purposely avoid 4k due to the lackluster framerates. They care about a monitor's hz/refresh rate more than pixels.
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Edited to add: Watching Clair Siobhan's cottage build video and she also mentioned they have limitations to what they can do. They submit their build to the Sims team and the team runs it on a computer with very basic performance. If it doesn't play well it goes back to the builder for modification. They're not allowed to use a lot of wallpaper styles, can't use a lot of mirrors, can't use doors that have glass and allow you to see through the house because that causes rendering problems.
I am not sure what you are saying; I am explicitly pointing out I don't get people who own or have played Sims 3 and keeps trying to argue that the world is smaller in Sims 4 when it is in fact much MUCH larger due to travel between worlds. Plus the fact that Sims 3's open world, specifically was very very badly optimized and ran like llama manure even on games that could handle much more advanced games at the time.
I see what you saying but the thing is you have leave that world and some people want to do more in one neighborhood than what Sims 4 can provide. I also see what the Kwanzaabot is saying and I agree with him/her. Sims 4 is literally stuck in whatever tech that was in 2014 even if now has 64 bit capabilities. You can't change the layout in neighborhoods and this 2021. An customer for me is forced to make an story to how EA/Maxis want you to write it if you want to make an bigger story in one neighborhood. Now if Sims 3 was not optimized whose fault is that? and to make matters worse what make me think Sims 4 is really optimized and it has way less features than Sims 3 and was stripped to ensure to run smoother and for some that is not possible and hardware in most cases cannot be at fault as the game does not really scale up or down as it did in Sims 3. I had seven systems and when I played on them those systems I got varying results good and bad as again Sims 3 did scale up or down. If I encountered any hiccups it was mainly due to developer error so it is not like EA/Maxis are innocent free of any blame and why I do not give EA/Maxis credit. Now if Sims 4 had the capabilities that Sims 3 had with the world creation and plus the ability to connect whatever world you create, for me Sims 4 would have been tops and how many worlds that could be connected would be depended on your systems resources otherwise known as bells and whistles. Having connected Neighborhoods in Sims 4 is nice but it is limiting.
Screw that! If they go back to "you're stuck in one world forever and ever", I'm sticking with TS4. It's much more realistic to be able to visit and live in different worlds than it is to be stuck in the same hometown forever.
And no, the "downtown" in TS2 is not a different world. It's just downtown Pleasantview.
Wow I didn't know that. Thanks for the information.
I feel like we can speculate until the moon drops but only the developers know best on how much this game can handle and I trust they are trying to make the best performance for everyone. I think they are well aware that only lucky people (and I'm not one of them) can run Ts3 without issues and they don't want that for ts4. So I appreciate their efforts even if it means sacrifices because this game runs like a dream for me. With ts3 it was constant stress about what precious save I'm going to loose or when the next crash is coming, lag and glitches even after following all the steps and advice for how to run on a new gaming PC.
Although I have no issues people already complain about lag and other issues with ts4 (I think it's PC related personally)
Now imagine they add open world, 100 64x64 lots, create a style, color wheel and everything else people are wanting. The only thing Devs are going to have is a pile of mounting complaints about who can't play and whos game is crashing.
My sister had a ps4 before she got a ps5. The ps4 cannot even handle the sims. She had a LOT of issues and I hear that a lot from other console players. Don't forget we have console players plus not everyone can afford the latest and greatest gaming PC.
I know people try to compare the sims with other open world games but they are NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING like the sims. The sims is a VERY complex game in comparison and no one can dispute that there literally is no other game like it. It's just not comparable. and what works for those games will not just magically apply to a game like the sims. Why do you think paralives have not even started gameplay yet. They have been asking what people want to see for 2 years now. But I think they are realizing to put it all together with intelligent AI, path finding, coding, and everything else it entails BUG FREE is whole nother animal.
I want to see more years of a smooth performing ts4
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I play both Sims 3 and Sims 4. In Sims 3, when I travel to a different world, there are different sims there. Be it a World Adventure world, University, the future, or, since I use mods, any world reached by traveler. If a sim from, say, France visits the home city, it's clear that they're a tourist. In Sims 4, no matter where I go, sims from other worlds are there living their lives. It does not feel like different worlds when Judith Ward is voting on a NAP in the eco living world or Victor Feng is rummaging through the garbage there.
Sims 3 does need modern hardware to play well, but on modern hardware, at least for me, it plays better than Sims 4. It makes sense that it does given that a high end computer from 10 years ago could handle the calculations required. Both games are poorly optimized and rife with spaghetti code.
Most open world, single player games do not have the entire world loaded at once, and that's true of Sims 3 as well.
I'm not happy with a lot of the choices made for Sims 4, I feel like I've written while stories about it. Some are great but the cons outweigh the pros for me and the world sizes and number of lots happens to be a big con. I prefer having larger worlds I can place even more lots in and fill as much as I want but I did want to be able to travel between the worlds. But if I had to deal with smaller worlds I can't place any lots in, in exchange for being able to travel between worlds I'd rather not travel between worlds because I can't situate my sims and townies like I want to. I feel like there was a better way to go about it, especially considering they were kinda half way there or at least had a blueprint of sorts with how World Adventures worked, but I don't know if it would've helped them cater to low end systems like they want meaning everyone has to suffer. That's something I personally don't like either when it comes to The Sims. I get that it stinks being left behind and not being able to play or only being able to play on a poor laptop, I've been there, but I'd much rather the game be great and I save money to buy a system for it or play a Sims lite game like Sims Stories until then. I actually miss them doing side Sims games and would play them even if I had somr fancy, overkill $6000 system.
I feel like there's another thing that should be taken into consideration too that they probably won't say but players and mod creators who look into their code have. They poorly code the game. There are players on PC (and especially on console) experiencing lag and bugs, it's not running well and their systems are more than capable of handling it and this isn't the first Sims game people have had these experiences with. It's been happening since Sims 2 so yeah, they can decide not to do a colorwheel, create a style and remove the ability to add lots, and more but the games keep running into similar problems regardless. I'm not by any means saying it should be flawless because they're always bound to miss something but every single game in the main series almost (not sure about Sims 1) tends to need mods or workarounds for big issues and the precautions they took to try to prevent lagging and improve the experience don't seem to have worked all that well with Sims 4 yet they're talking possibly 3 to 5 more years so at what point do they start dig deeper in house to figure out what, why and how this keeps happening instead?
I've said it before and I don't really see laundry lists making a world of difference but I see Sims 4 headed down the same path of Sims 3. They can start making worlds with 5 to 10 lots but it's still the same old song. Same thing with a somewhat more creatively limited game. This is why I want to see them focus solely on single player before attempting multi-player or story mode. I see so much potential and I do think it's possible to have a great game that runs well and puts more creative options and features in players hands but they need to work on their delivery still. The series is over 20 years old and with technology as advanced as it is and it still isn't as advanced of a game as it could be, there's definitely still a lot they can do with The Sims, I absolutely agree with all the gurus who say that. It's just that they need a great and solid foundation to start those things on and everything they build onto that foundation needs to be just as solid. Then I could definitely see a Sims game lasting 10 years. I just don't think they've made the choices they need to in order to get to that point yet.
I concur with your post
HOWEVER, it is fair game to criticize the devs for showing up to the building site with a bicycle instead of a dump truck to begin with.
However, there are a few things things to remember about it:
1. The game was originally, and quite far into development, envisioned as a mandatory multiplayer Online Only game.
2. When focus (thank God) changed, the then Dev team had to scramble to change engine and had to use a not finished one. Remember, the reason there were no pools at launch was not because of pools, but because of basements. The game engine could not make basements, and since pools are utilizing a basement mechanic to be created...
3. Tying into the points above: The present dev team is NOT completely identical to the original one, we really cannot fairly blame them for anything engine related and they should instead get all the props for managing to squeeze out so much functionality anyway
That said, either the release of Sims 4 should have been delayed a year or so to optimize the engine beforehand, OR Seasons should have been the last expansion pack and Sims 5 should have been released 2018 or 2019, with a completely new engine.
A modern game, on a few years old computer with optimized engine can definitely support everything Sims 2, 3 and 4 can do combined. Plus more. I will not pit two games against each other but Paralive's build mode is basically what I expected a full budget Sims 5 released 2018 to be able to do.
I agree with you 100 percent! You could enjoy having multi-purpose lots in both Sims 1 and Sims 2. In Sims 4,mult-purpose lots don't even exist. We hardly get any new venues or new lot types in Sims 4,we just keep getting the same boring bars,lackluster libraries and generic gyms in each new world we get. It's mostly bars that are plunked into new worlds;No cinemas or game arcades or tennis courts or laundromats or anything that would expand gameplay-just the same boring bars over and over and over and over again. So far,the only world without a bar is the Vampires pack-all the other worlds have bars plunked into them.
I'm hoping Sims 5 will come soon,and that it will have a bunch of elements from Sims 1-3,and have the graphics and basement tool of Sims 4. Sims 5 should come at the end of this year or early next year.
I didn't said once that we should be stucked in a world forever because that's not even true. You can change to another world in TS3 but you lose every progress. As I said: We only wanted the ability to change from world to each other without losing progress and relationships, nothing more (I think this sentence is self explanatory)
I didn't even mentioned TS2 downtown so I don't get your point.
In my opinion having all worlds together is not even realistic. Why are for example the Goths walking on an inspired England world when they literally live and work in inspired North America? Is that realistic? Hell no!
Having all world combined is so restrictive. Also it can be a pain in the axx for rotative players without story progression.
I have packs I wish I could refund. (Why did I buy JTB? 😭🤦🏼♂️)
It’s hard though. I have managed to get most packs on sale this year. The full price ones were Paranormal Stuff and Oasis Courtyard Kit. Which is a big improvement!
Thankfully DHD didn’t appeal. But now there’s Cottage Living to consider. 🤷🏼♂️🙄🤦🏼♂️.
I think that plays a large role in how the lots are built and how large the neighborhoods are. I'm not sure if it affects how many neighborhoods you can have though since the game removes the neighborhood when you travel and load another one.
It will be interesting to see how well Henford on Bagley will perform though because I thought the zones were pretty big, I wonder how well they will run with post processing effects while it's raining or snowing.
The thing is that you can change the world by yourself. In The Sims 4 that creative part of game was almost full removed (I say almost because you can edit the lots but not the world itself) and that's beyond disappointing to me!
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionMan, I wish I could do THAT! 😯😃
What a lot of people on here (and in youtube comments) fail to realize is that the other half of the player base have very old computers. I was dumbstruck (literally) when I realized how many people were in uproar when 64 bits became mandatory for the game to work with new expansions. 32 bit PCs stopped being manufactured some 15 years ago(!!) and yet so very many players complained.
This, if nothing else, is an indicator that (and pardon me for saying this!) many Sims players are not "gamers", they play well... Sims. Again I do not mean this as some "gamers" do, absolutely not, but EA and the Devs definitely know the people that play the game on what is basically potatoes with a keyboard.
(Btw, a poll made by Steam, often considered "the" gaming platform on PC, show that more than 60% of customers there play on older computers and only some 15% have 4K screens, 1080p being the most common and even lower resolutions are more common than 4K. In short, the myth of the "PC master race gamers" is a myth, nothing else).
Again, I am NOT trying to make fun of people using older computers, but the opposite: Most players of the Sims have computers older than 3-4 years, definitely, OR newer computers not optimized for gaming (aka using the computer they use for college classes for gaming etc).
There are a ton. But you have better luck going for something published by an AA or Indie company than an AAA publisher.
I get what you're saying but I want to point out that 4k is not a gaming resolution. Most "gamers" will prefer 1080p because of the framerates they can get. It's hard to get 200+ fps on a giant 4k monitor.
I don't think more neighborhoods should have an affect on performance unless there is a "total" somewhere that the game can't handle. Doesn't matter if you are playing on an older computer or not. After all, these people who are playing on their old computers can play and run other worlds who have more lots just fine.
The amount of objects and lots in a neighborhood does matter though and probably other things like lot and sim info, so it's not unlikely that they are also doing this because they want to drag out the sims4 for many more years.
200 FPs? Sure. How about 60Fps? Because that's what PS5 and Xbox is promising on a 4K screen.
60 fps is not an acceptable framerate for many "serious" PC gamers. My point is that we cannot tell if someone is a serious gamer based on 4k because a lot of gamers purposely avoid 4k due to the lackluster framerates. They care about a monitor's hz/refresh rate more than pixels.