Body hair and pronouns were the only two things on the list that actually feel like "causes" to me, because they're important for making sims the way people want them to be. And as a non-fan (don't hate it, just don't love it) of body hair, I'd rather have pronouns, even if I think that's the more difficult one to implement due to some languages not having suitable options.
I mean, yes, I want more occults - especially werewolves. Yes, I want cars, and yes, I want hotels. But those aren't "causes" They're wants, and in the case of hotels and occults, probably not even particularly difficult ones. They just need to find the right secondary themes and work them into the schedule.
As for the rest... There are a couple that I think are already in the works, so making them the community "demand" I think would be detrimental if they decide to rush something out (see: Bunk Beds released in a workable, but not quite finished state.) There are others where I don't think people realize the complexity of what they're asking for, so it may be a while even if they are working on it.
I logged on just to vote for Body Hair. It's about letting people make the sims they want and to reflect another facet of themselves. It's not about examining any ratio of people who like it vs. don't like it, it's about allowing all players to accurately create the world and sims as they desire by including a very real and common part of being a human.
Building on/repeating what @DaWaterRat said, body hair and pronouns are really the two things on this list that focus on making the game more inclusive. Therefore, those should be priority items and preferably patched in. (As much as I want werewolves/more occults, body hair wins my vote 100% of the time.) Though I do agree, that body hair would likely be significantly easier to implement of the two.
Honestly, I like big beefy hairy males and in TS4 I can only get big beefy males
It's such an obvious thing in a life simulator yet it's missing, makes you wonder why.
Also, about non-binary pronouns, not all language have them, which is why it might be difficult to implement.
> @nasch_katze said: > Honestly, I like big beefy hairy males and in TS4 I can only get big beefy males :'( > It's such an obvious thing in a life simulator yet it's missing, makes you wonder why. > > Also, about non-binary pronouns, not all language have them, which is why it might be difficult to implement.
I think it's the main problem to implement them in the game. The game is in 18 languages, how it concretly should work with all of them? I speak french and do you know that everything have a gender (even inanimate objects!). The gender neutral form in french it's mostly possible by how you form the sentence than use a dedicaced pronom to it. You could google check at ''rédaction épicène''.
Thank you @83bienchen for modding the game. Whims Overhaul is essential for my gameplay.
TS5 now would be nice, but I know that's not happening, lol! If not that, then hotels would be a feasible feature to ask for - it's a new lot type, new build/buy items and new gameplay (running a hotel/resort/bnb). I would have asked for cars as well, but if they haven't done that by now, I'm thinking that they will never do it.
I personally like the way babies are in the game at the moment, and the other things could slowly be added in with updates I think, so I would want occults! There aren't that many, so getting more in the game would be great. Especially if they had cool abilities like Vampires.
Well I don't think that hair colours are finish yet, there are still plenty of hair colors missing.
However I didn't vote, because I don't like how the socialmedia community is now in the position to decide where is going next and ignore or smacking down everything else, what they don't want or like. I won't support such behavior, which is the death of creativity.
> @nasch_katze said:
> Honestly, I like big beefy hairy males and in TS4 I can only get big beefy males
> It's such an obvious thing in a life simulator yet it's missing, makes you wonder why.
>
> Also, about non-binary pronouns, not all language have them, which is why it might be difficult to implement.
I think it's the main problem to implement them in the game. The game is in 18 languages, how it concretly should work with all of them? I speak french and do you know that everything have a gender (even inanimate objects!). The gender neutral form in french it's mostly possible by how you form the sentence than use a dedicaced pronom to it. You could google check at ''rédaction épicène''.
I'm french too
On a le pronom "iel", contraction de "il/elle" utilisé par les non-binaires mais ce n'est rien d'officiel et c'est même extrêmement controversé, donc impossible de l'inclure dans le jeu quoi...
French here too and non-binary pronouns do not "exist" in our language or it's the masculine that is considered the "default". Everything we use as non-binary folks is experimental basically and absolutely not accepted in French culture. If they forced it, it would be a complete backlash. And there are many other languages like French too.
When people think about non-binary pronouns, they think about English or Germanic languages. But not all players play in English.
A body hair menu so my male sims can officially look like males.
Cars & horses & Musical Ensembles & more occults!
CAW & Paintable Ceilings & spiral stairs.
Even more meaningful personalities with suitable animations.
Getting rid of the same NPCs constantly ruining my landscape.
Canes for all ages.
Hotels and farms.
Etc. And so on.
I ain't French, still, I won't be putting my energy in asking for Non binary pronouns because I couldn’t care less whether that's in my game or not.
Also:
I Don’t care about them babies freed.
I Don’t care about pre-teens.
I Don’t care about the sims 5. I’m having too much fun with the current one and the ones before that.
Having said that, if the features directly above will somehow be implemented I’m happy for those who asked for them and I'm quite positive that I'll be able to have fun with most of that content!
ETA: I forgot to add something else important to my list of good causes.
When people think about non-binary pronouns, they think about English or Germanic languages. But not all players play in English.
We don't have non-binary pronouns in German. There is "es" which means basically "it", but you wouldn't use "it" for people who are non-binary (it would be rather disrespectful I think). There is no "they" like it is used in English. "They" in German - "sie" - describes a group of people, not an individual person.
Non-binary identifying German people usually use made up pronouns they identify with (like "em" instead of "er" - he or "sie" - she), but they aren't shared by many people, it's more an individual thing and sadly, many people don't want non-binary people to use pronouns they're more comfortable with, so it's a huge discussion here too...
I wonder if there's a way for the devs to make it a form field - like the names, that then default to the masculine/feminine for the chosen language depending on the frame chosen.
Then people could input their own choice of pronouns for their sims.
Not sure how that would impact to gendered languages, though.
I would normally be in favor of more pronouns, but I can't think of any instance in which a Sim's pronouns are actually used in-game? I don't have DLC for Sims 4, but in the base game as well as Sims 1, 2, & 3, the Sim's name was always used, not their pronouns (IIRC ofc)
Also it's true that not every language is capable of gender neutral pronouns. Chinese for example, it's always gender-neutral when spoken ("tā") but there isn't a gender-neutral way to write it. 他，她，它 = he, she, it; all pronounced the same.
Like German, there are a few new variants, but none are "official" and it depends on the user. I wonder, in this case, what would be used?
I would normally be in favor of more pronouns, but I can't think of any instance in which a Sim's pronouns are actually used in-game? I don't have DLC for Sims 4, but in the base game as well as Sims 1, 2, & 3, the Sim's name was always used, not their pronouns (IIRC ofc)
I've seen a few "her/his" in some text strings, "their" as singular they in others. The text strings usually start with the Sim's name and then use pronouns if the string needs to refer to them again later.
Admittedly, as a cis female who uses she/her and doesn't make a lot of genderfluid sims, it's not something I notice regularly, but I still think it would be nice if they can figure out a way to do it in more than just English.
I've seen a few "her/his" in some text strings, "their" as singular they in others. The text strings usually start with the Sim's name and then use pronouns if the string needs to refer to them again later.
Ah, I looked at some sims 2 chance cards and saw the use of pronouns. I admittedly skim over most text notifs and never noticed the details.
English is pretty unique in having a gender-neutral singular pronoun (they). I can only speak on behalf of a few languages, but like I mentioned with Chinese (mandarin) above and some have mentioned with German, the only options are "they," which cannot be used to refer to a singular person and "it," which is used for animals and objects. Many LGBT+ speakers of these languages use neopronouns, and neopronouns are not usually standardized. In English, common neopronouns include ze/hir and xe/xem, but there exists no rule stating that these are THE neopronouns. Obviously in the case of English, things can be kept neat and include only they/them with maybe a few very common neopronouns sprinkled in. But in Chinese, neopronouns usually look like "X也“ or just the written "ta." I read an article about reclaiming "他," the current masculine pronoun, as a gender-neutral one. But its masculine meaning still holds over the gender-neutral one, and this solution would leave the Chinese version with 2 pronouns. I also believe Polish (and I'd imagine quite a few other Slavic languages) lack a singular neutral pronoun and use neopronouns.
Ok, obviously a bit of a convoluted explaination, but I'm trying to say that a lot of languages don't have a gender-neutral singular pronoun and use neopronouns, which are not standardized. This would probably be tricky for the Sims team to navigate. Write-in pronouns are probably possible, but I don't see that coming if we're being honest. :[
I've seen a pretty united front on social media for pronouns and the like, so I'm thinking that might be something and it's definitely up the Sims Team alley to be more inclusive.
Comments
I mean, yes, I want more occults - especially werewolves. Yes, I want cars, and yes, I want hotels. But those aren't "causes" They're wants, and in the case of hotels and occults, probably not even particularly difficult ones. They just need to find the right secondary themes and work them into the schedule.
As for the rest... There are a couple that I think are already in the works, so making them the community "demand" I think would be detrimental if they decide to rush something out (see: Bunk Beds released in a workable, but not quite finished state.) There are others where I don't think people realize the complexity of what they're asking for, so it may be a while even if they are working on it.
Building on/repeating what @DaWaterRat said, body hair and pronouns are really the two things on this list that focus on making the game more inclusive. Therefore, those should be priority items and preferably patched in. (As much as I want werewolves/more occults, body hair wins my vote 100% of the time.) Though I do agree, that body hair would likely be significantly easier to implement of the two.
It's such an obvious thing in a life simulator yet it's missing, makes you wonder why.
Also, about non-binary pronouns, not all language have them, which is why it might be difficult to implement.
Same!
> Honestly, I like big beefy hairy males and in TS4 I can only get big beefy males :'(
> It's such an obvious thing in a life simulator yet it's missing, makes you wonder why.
>
> Also, about non-binary pronouns, not all language have them, which is why it might be difficult to implement.
I think it's the main problem to implement them in the game. The game is in 18 languages, how it concretly should work with all of them? I speak french and do you know that everything have a gender (even inanimate objects!). The gender neutral form in french it's mostly possible by how you form the sentence than use a dedicaced pronom to it. You could google check at ''rédaction épicène''.
However I didn't vote, because I don't like how the socialmedia community is now in the position to decide where is going next and ignore or smacking down everything else, what they don't want or like. I won't support such behavior, which is the death of creativity.
I'm french too
On a le pronom "iel", contraction de "il/elle" utilisé par les non-binaires mais ce n'est rien d'officiel et c'est même extrêmement controversé, donc impossible de l'inclure dans le jeu quoi...
Anyway back to english
When people think about non-binary pronouns, they think about English or Germanic languages. But not all players play in English.
Here's my list:
I ain't French, still, I won't be putting my energy in asking for Non binary pronouns because I couldn’t care less whether that's in my game or not.
Also:
I Don’t care about them babies freed.
I Don’t care about pre-teens.
I Don’t care about the sims 5. I’m having too much fun with the current one and the ones before that.
Having said that, if the features directly above will somehow be implemented I’m happy for those who asked for them and I'm quite positive that I'll be able to have fun with most of that content!
ETA: I forgot to add something else important to my list of good causes.
We don't have non-binary pronouns in German. There is "es" which means basically "it", but you wouldn't use "it" for people who are non-binary (it would be rather disrespectful I think). There is no "they" like it is used in English. "They" in German - "sie" - describes a group of people, not an individual person.
Non-binary identifying German people usually use made up pronouns they identify with (like "em" instead of "er" - he or "sie" - she), but they aren't shared by many people, it's more an individual thing and sadly, many people don't want non-binary people to use pronouns they're more comfortable with, so it's a huge discussion here too...
Then people could input their own choice of pronouns for their sims.
Not sure how that would impact to gendered languages, though.
Yeah, not an easy thing to program.
Also it's true that not every language is capable of gender neutral pronouns. Chinese for example, it's always gender-neutral when spoken ("tā") but there isn't a gender-neutral way to write it. 他，她，它 = he, she, it; all pronounced the same.
Like German, there are a few new variants, but none are "official" and it depends on the user. I wonder, in this case, what would be used?
I've seen a few "her/his" in some text strings, "their" as singular they in others. The text strings usually start with the Sim's name and then use pronouns if the string needs to refer to them again later.
Admittedly, as a cis female who uses she/her and doesn't make a lot of genderfluid sims, it's not something I notice regularly, but I still think it would be nice if they can figure out a way to do it in more than just English.
Ah, I looked at some sims 2 chance cards and saw the use of pronouns. I admittedly skim over most text notifs and never noticed the details.
English is pretty unique in having a gender-neutral singular pronoun (they). I can only speak on behalf of a few languages, but like I mentioned with Chinese (mandarin) above and some have mentioned with German, the only options are "they," which cannot be used to refer to a singular person and "it," which is used for animals and objects. Many LGBT+ speakers of these languages use neopronouns, and neopronouns are not usually standardized. In English, common neopronouns include ze/hir and xe/xem, but there exists no rule stating that these are THE neopronouns. Obviously in the case of English, things can be kept neat and include only they/them with maybe a few very common neopronouns sprinkled in. But in Chinese, neopronouns usually look like "X也“ or just the written "ta." I read an article about reclaiming "他," the current masculine pronoun, as a gender-neutral one. But its masculine meaning still holds over the gender-neutral one, and this solution would leave the Chinese version with 2 pronouns. I also believe Polish (and I'd imagine quite a few other Slavic languages) lack a singular neutral pronoun and use neopronouns.
Ok, obviously a bit of a convoluted explaination, but I'm trying to say that a lot of languages don't have a gender-neutral singular pronoun and use neopronouns, which are not standardized. This would probably be tricky for the Sims team to navigate. Write-in pronouns are probably possible, but I don't see that coming if we're being honest. :[