Nvm the fact that if they actually wanted to give us full control they need to add things for us to do... The 4 lot neighborhood with 2 random joggers now and then is really not cutting it.
Personally the Sims 4 does not give me control to play out the stories I want without being a pain in the as*. I know a lot of people say they feel like this game gives them more "control", whatever that's suppsed to mean. But I find that the game goes against my storylines tons of times.
The Sims 4 isn't a blank canvas imo. It might be one in certain areas but then other areas are super random, and intrusive to your made up story (friendly socializing after a fight, emotions not corresponding to events happening, idle interactions interrupting sim actions etc.) or they are so restrictive that you just cannot do a lot of things (choose colors, create own worlds, lots, environments etc.)
At the end of the day, it's not challenging and unpredictable enough to completely satisfy my life simulation needs and it's not customizable and flexible enough to satisfy my sandbox needs.
Nvm the fact that if they actually wanted to give us full control they need to add things for us to do... The 4 lot neighborhood with 2 random joggers now and then is really not cutting it.
Personally the Sims 4 does not give me control to play out the stories I want without being a pain in the as*. I know a lot of people say they feel like this game gives them more "control", whatever that's suppsed to mean. But I find that the game goes against my storylines tons of times.
The Sims 4 isn't a blank canvas imo. It might be one in certain areas but then other areas are super random, and intrusive to your made up story (friendly socializing after a fight, emotions not corresponding to events happening, idle interactions interrupting sim actions etc.) or they are so restrictive that you just cannot do a lot of things (choose colors, create own worlds, lots, environments etc.)
At the end of the day, it's not challenging and unpredictable enough to completely satisfy my life simulation needs and it's not customizable and flexible enough to satisfy my sandbox needs.
Exactly. Imagine you are roleplaying a death. Ok the Sim dies (Which btw its way harder to actually get a Sim to die than to revive them). Now your entire family is sad... except they aren't, Well they are but they have 3 Happiness buffs from random things like décor and waking up in a good mood ect, overriding the sadness entirely. So now you have Sims cheering and being happy and smiling. Amazing story telling.
Sims 4 doesn't give players more control. It removes the things that gives the game replayability and variation. The only aspect of TS4 that has more options and control than other Sims games is what you can disable and not choose to deal with. Again, like emotions.. or death.. or fun.
Nvm the fact that half the time interactions get canceled. Ever woken up, set up 4 actions in queue then have them be entirely canceled by a mouse in a TLC apartment? Or have them be canceled by the group of Sims all sprinting to have a convo with your Sim and becoming "Good" friends with them just through chatting and stopping your Sims for doing what you want them to do? Oh yes definitely more control
When i said that sims 4 gives better control, i don't mean the day by day... the autonomy issues, the unnecessary idle chat... i agree all of that is disruptive. I mean the ability to make your sims whatever you want, to play your story... We were talking about how easy it is to skill up in sims 4. I think this is an advantage for what sims 4 is or does better: easily molding the characters to what people want in their stories. Even the fact that sims have less personality is an advantage. Characters that don't acknowlodge their environments, that don't develop from their actions, will be easilIy moldable into what we want. Sims that don't fight back. Sims 4 did this well, but the game is very bugged right now. Very bugged, very unbalanced (hello BtD) and the autonomy is crazy...
EtA that i prefer the game aspect that sims 3 throws at the player, better than the control aspect in sims 4. Anyway, i think sims 4 do well what it does, and it has it's audience, people that love it for what it is (me included).
When i said that sims 4 gives better control, i don't mean the day by day... the autonomy issues, the unnecessary idle chat... i agree all of that is disruptive. I mean the ability to make your sims whatever you want, to play your story... We were talking about how easy it is to skill up in sims 4. I think this is an advantage for what sims 4 is or does better: easily molding the characters to what people want in their stories. Even the fact that sims have less personality is an advantage. Characters that don't acknowlodge their environments, that don't develop from their actions, will be easilIy moldable into what we want. Sims that don't fight back. Sims 4 did this well, but the game is very bugged right now. Very bugged, very unbalanced (hello BtD) and the autonomy is crazy...
.
The autonomy is what takes away your control in this game and it does it by a lot. I want to make 2 sims fight because that's my story yet the autonomy keeps making them like each other. They are totally fighting back and don't want to be unfriendly to each other.
But things like deaths and stuff are easier to do, though totally possible in previous games with cheats as well for storyline purposes.
When i said that sims 4 gives better control, i don't mean the day by day... the autonomy issues, the unnecessary idle chat... i agree all of that is disruptive. I mean the ability to make your sims whatever you want, to play your story... We were talking about how easy it is to skill up in sims 4. I think this is an advantage for what sims 4 is or does better: easily molding the characters to what people want in their stories. Even the fact that sims have less personality is an advantage. Characters that don't acknowlodge their environments, that don't develop from their actions, will be easilIy moldable into what we want. Sims that don't fight back. Sims 4 did this well, but the game is very bugged right now. Very bugged, very unbalanced (hello BtD) and the autonomy is crazy...
EtA that i prefer the game aspect that sims 3 throws at the player, better than the control aspect in sims 4. Anyway, i think sims 4 do well what it does, and it has it's audience, people that love it for what it is (me included).
If all Sims don't acknowledge their environments then you can never have a Sim that does acknowledge their environment, and what if you want that? If Sims don't change based on your actions, then what is the point of doing them? I guess here would be a good place for you to give examples of what you mean, because I might be misunderstanding you. If Sims don't do anything, then how can they be anything?
On the topic of storytelling and creative control -
Sims in Sims 4 are just kind of... goofy. Their autonomy is wacky and the auras are overpowered (I think auras ruined the entire emotion system for me).
I feel like Sims 3 or even Sims 2, which was arguably the most rigid/structured entry in the series, allow me to play out my sims' life stories how I want. I usually cheat my sims' interests in 2, and that combined with their personality, aspiration, LTW, and turn-ons/turn-offs make them feel much more representative of the character I have in my head than a blank slate that just constantly makes food and likes everyone they meet. Once I leave CAS in 2 and 3, it feels like my Sims will be set up to cooperate with the creative direction I want their lives to go in, and if I run out of ideas they can continue their arc until a new plan comes to mind. With Sims 4, I have to battle with my sims to make them feel like the sim I envisioned in CAS, if that makes any sense.
And yeah, skill-building in 4 is OP, and it's also too easy to earn money.
On the topic of storytelling and creative control -
Sims in Sims 4 are just kind of... goofy. Their autonomy is wacky and the auras are overpowered (I think auras ruined the entire emotion system for me).
I feel like Sims 3 or even Sims 2, which was arguably the most rigid/structured entry in the series, allow me to play out my sims' life stories how I want. I usually cheat my sims' interests in 2, and that combined with their personality, aspiration, LTW, and turn-ons/turn-offs make them feel much more representative of the character I have in my head than a blank slate that just constantly makes food and likes everyone they meet. Once I leave CAS in 2 and 3, it feels like my Sims will be set up to cooperate with the creative direction I want their lives to go in, and if I run out of ideas they can continue their arc until a new plan comes to mind. With Sims 4, I have to battle with my sims to make them feel like the sim I envisioned in CAS, if that makes any sense.
And yeah, skill-building in 4 is OP, and it's also too easy to earn money.
That's why I play both Sims 3 & Sims 4 due to a lack of balance in both games.
For example:
Sims 4 doesn't have Color Wheel, Body Hair, Nails, Eye Lashes, Spiral Stairs, No Werewolves/Fairies/Genies, Lunar Moon, Cars & Proper Teens.
Sims 3 lacks Building Tools, No Gallery, Each Playable Household has to be a New Game Save.
When I miss my Werewolves/Fairies/Genies & Cars, I play Sims 3.
When I want to Build & make Hybrids I play Sims 4.
When i said that sims 4 gives better control, i don't mean the day by day... the autonomy issues, the unnecessary idle chat... i agree all of that is disruptive. I mean the ability to make your sims whatever you want, to play your story... We were talking about how easy it is to skill up in sims 4. I think this is an advantage for what sims 4 is or does better: easily molding the characters to what people want in their stories. Even the fact that sims have less personality is an advantage. Characters that don't acknowlodge their environments, that don't develop from their actions, will be easilIy moldable into what we want. Sims that don't fight back. Sims 4 did this well, but the game is very bugged right now. Very bugged, very unbalanced (hello BtD) and the autonomy is crazy...
.
The autonomy is what takes away your control in this game and it does it by a lot. I want to make 2 sims fight because that's my story yet the autonomy keeps making them like each other. They are totally fighting back and don't want to be unfriendly to each other.
But things like deaths and stuff are easier to do, though totally possible in previous games with cheats as well for storyline purposes.
Yes, the autonomy is crazy. Yet, if you play with autonomy off it is easier to mold characters.
And yes, in previous games it is possible to do the same with cheats. Yet 4 seems to be designed more to let the player control their stories while previous games seem more like a game (which i actually prefer).
When i said that sims 4 gives better control, i don't mean the day by day... the autonomy issues, the unnecessary idle chat... i agree all of that is disruptive. I mean the ability to make your sims whatever you want, to play your story... We were talking about how easy it is to skill up in sims 4. I think this is an advantage for what sims 4 is or does better: easily molding the characters to what people want in their stories. Even the fact that sims have less personality is an advantage. Characters that don't acknowlodge their environments, that don't develop from their actions, will be easilIy moldable into what we want. Sims that don't fight back. Sims 4 did this well, but the game is very bugged right now. Very bugged, very unbalanced (hello BtD) and the autonomy is crazy...
EtA that i prefer the game aspect that sims 3 throws at the player, better than the control aspect in sims 4. Anyway, i think sims 4 do well what it does, and it has it's audience, people that love it for what it is (me included).
If all Sims don't acknowledge their environments then you can never have a Sim that does acknowledge their environment, and what if you want that? If Sims don't change based on your actions, then what is the point of doing them? I guess here would be a good place for you to give examples of what you mean, because I might be misunderstanding you. If Sims don't do anything, then how can they be anything?
You are misunderstanding me i'm saying that sims will be more moldable to what the player has in his head for his story because it is easy to make them this or that (easy skill building) and it is easy to make them relate to anyone (sims forget their fights, get attracted to anyone you want...).
If Sims don't do anything, then how can they be anything?
Sims do what the players want them to do, so they are what thr player wants them to be.
Does it make the game funnier? It depends on what the person is looking for. I personally prefer the sims to have personality and acknowledge their environment. But others prefer this way.
Like i said before, sims 4 used to do what i think it was designed to do, before it being so buggy and the autonony being all over the place...
That's why I play both Sims 3 & Sims 4 due to a lack of balance in both games.
For example:
Sims 4 doesn't have Color Wheel, Body Hair, Nails, Eye Lashes, Spiral Stairs, No Werewolves/Fairies/Genies, Lunar Moon, Cars & Proper Teens.
Sims 3 lacks Building Tools, No Gallery, Each Playable Household has to be a New Game Save.
When I miss my Werewolves/Fairies/Genies & Cars, I play Sims 3.
When I want to Build & make Hybrids I play Sims 4.
I'm very recently playing both too. I have a save in 4 where i'm colonizing every world. It takes me having full control of all the sims in all the worlds, all the neighbourhoods and all community lots. I know what i want before i have started.
In 3 i just fire the game, randomize a sim in cas and play. I don't know what i want from the beginning. But the story is unfolding, as my sims character grows.
The games are different and react differently.
That's why I play both Sims 3 & Sims 4 due to a lack of balance in both games.
For example:
Sims 4 doesn't have Color Wheel, Body Hair, Nails, Eye Lashes, Spiral Stairs, No Werewolves/Fairies/Genies, Lunar Moon, Cars & Proper Teens.
Sims 3 lacks Building Tools, No Gallery, Each Playable Household has to be a New Game Save.
When I miss my Werewolves/Fairies/Genies & Cars, I play Sims 3.
When I want to Build & make Hybrids I play Sims 4.
@SERVERFRA You don't have to start a new save for every new household you want to play though.
Also what do you mean by Hybrids? As far as I know you are not allowed to make hybrid occults in the Sims 4.
In my Sims 3 I can't seem to have more than one household that I create in the same game save & it's always been like this.
As for my Hybrids in Sims 4; I've made my sims with the Vampire traits & powers, Witch traits & powers & sometimes the Mermaid traits.
When i said that sims 4 gives better control, i don't mean the day by day... the autonomy issues, the unnecessary idle chat... i agree all of that is disruptive. I mean the ability to make your sims whatever you want, to play your story... We were talking about how easy it is to skill up in sims 4. I think this is an advantage for what sims 4 is or does better: easily molding the characters to what people want in their stories. Even the fact that sims have less personality is an advantage. Characters that don't acknowlodge their environments, that don't develop from their actions, will be easilIy moldable into what we want. Sims that don't fight back. Sims 4 did this well, but the game is very bugged right now. Very bugged, very unbalanced (hello BtD) and the autonomy is crazy...
EtA that i prefer the game aspect that sims 3 throws at the player, better than the control aspect in sims 4. Anyway, i think sims 4 do well what it does, and it has it's audience, people that love it for what it is (me included).
If all Sims don't acknowledge their environments then you can never have a Sim that does acknowledge their environment, and what if you want that? If Sims don't change based on your actions, then what is the point of doing them? I guess here would be a good place for you to give examples of what you mean, because I might be misunderstanding you. If Sims don't do anything, then how can they be anything?
You are misunderstanding me i'm saying that sims will be more moldable to what the player has in his head for his story because it is easy to make them this or that (easy skill building) and it is easy to make them relate to anyone (sims forget their fights, get attracted to anyone you want...).
If Sims don't do anything, then how can they be anything?
Sims do what the players want them to do, so they are what thr player wants them to be.
Does it make the game funnier? It depends on what the person is looking for. I personally prefer the sims to have personality and acknowledge their environment. But others prefer this way.
Like i said before, sims 4 used to do what i think it was designed to do, before it being so buggy and the autonony being all over the place...
Thanks for explaining. I understand better now.
I'm going to try to explain my thought, and hope that it's not too confusing....I think if I'm playing a game where I am given the opportunity, actually required to (either by careful selection or randomization) input some semblance of personality into the game itself using some form of personality builder, then I don't want to have to do so much imagining on my own. Some imagining is fine. But, I do expect the game to understand the character I'm playing because the game had me build a personality, so the systems in the game should work with that personality to make the gaming experience unique to that personality. If the game never gives me the opportunity to build a personality using a system, then I'm all for imagining my character's personality.
For example, in Skyrim, I use my imagination a lot for my character build, and it impacts the choices I make for my character. It's all in my head. I never got to input into a system how good or evil or smart or deceptive my character is, so I had no expectation for the game to somehow showcase my character's personality because I built my character over time in my mind as I played them.
On the other hand, in Crusader Kings 3, the characters all operate under a fairly complex personality system, and this in turn affects a multitude of things in the game, like how a character reacts to a certain event, how a character interacts with other people, etc. As the player, I make the choices for my character on what they do, but the game basically says that "based on your character's personality, if you do this_____, this is the consequence (good or bad)." And this is for not just my character, but the AI characters as well (I'm not making choices for them, but they will do things according to their personality).
Now obviously, Skyrim is not a simulation and Crusader Kings 3 is, right. We can see why these two games would be set up differently. Even a game like Animal Crossing which falls more in line with life simulation doesn't require any sort of personality builder, which means that I'm free to imagine up any kind of character outside of the game's system. And I don't expect the game to know who my character is beyond the actual actions of running around fishing and catching bugs, etc. I don't have the expectation that the game knows who my character is because the game never asked.
But, TS4 is supposed to be a simulation. EA calls it a life simulation game. TS4 makes you build a character, or play with a character that has been built by the game itself. By having a personality builder in the game, TS4 is telling me that your character's personality matters at a system level. The game wants to/needs to know who your character is. From there, I have an expectation that the game should be taking into account player input, and then throwing back at me results/consequences based on how I built my character. Now, I will say that the game does do this with Emotions. But, Emotions are a simple response to events, other Sims, decor, and sometimes absolutely nothing at all. They fall short because there’s nothing else to operate as a lasting consequence. That's not nearly enough, in my opinion. If the characters can be molded to what players want to do solely because the game doesn't have any response back, or it doesn't put up a fight, that tells me that the game is not a simulation.
So many players say that they are creating the idea of the characters all in their imagination. I shouldn't have to imagine who my Sim is because the game asked me who they are and I told it. (And this gets into the entire argument about how there's not even enough systems in place to make a full personality at the game level, which speaks to why it's easier for people to imagine personalities that aren't there).
And I'm not trying to attack anyone's style of gameplay, but it is hard to accept TS4 by its definition of a life simulation game when I have seen a life simulation game done as a simulation game in TS2.
Anyways, I didn't mean to get so off track from what the OP was saying. But I do think ultimately the game's imbalance....part of it comes from this lack of actual simulation. From my perspective, some players feel like they have more control and some feel like they have less control because the game isn't doing its job.
(All of this is my interpretation and my expectations, and obviously people have opposing views about expectations for the game).
@NationalPokedex i think we agree... i just won't comment on if sims 4 is a life simulation or not cause i don't know what exactly a life simulation is supposed to be...
I see 4 as a different game from the previous in the series. And i can see the appeal of it as it is.
I have been playing it for the last 2 years and i have fun with it. But... i do need my smartphone around, with a randomizer and some lists to help me work through my story (i'm not the criative type) while in 3 i don't need anything outside of the game.
I think that the biggest stretch is when any Sim stands next to a dj booth, and doing so suddenly makes them a dj. That's like standing next to a doctor while he or she is performing surgery, and all of a sudden you're a doctor too by association
@NationalPokedex I agree 100%! You summed up my feelings exactly about TS4, and you did it in such a way that it was not belittling other people for how they play or what they expect out of TS4 or how you can't understand how they can enjoy it.
I have the same thought process as you ..... if a program asks me to input certain information, then I'm thinking obviously this is to customize the program how I personally want it to behave. If I take the time to input information, I don't expect the program to basically ignore my check marks of things I want it to do and just go about running it in the default state any way.
Why bother to ask what we want our sims personality traits to be if there is so little influence on how they behave with those traits and just end up basically acting like any other random sim I didn't customize.
In games that don't allow you to customize your character beyond the look and the skills they have for their chosen career path and will behave exactly how the game coded them to act, then I don't get worked up about that. But if a game gives me the option to pick and choose traits to customize my character so that they act, think, and behave a certain way then I expect that to happen.
It's very hard for me to personally get into actually playing TS4 because of this. I build (not greatly, mind you), create CC for the game, decorate other amazing creator's houses, occasionally create CC free sims that I literally never, ever play with, and enjoy TS4 for what it is to me, but playing it doesn't really hold my interest compared to other games.
I know that there are a lot of people who really enjoy the fact that the game doesn't go against the story that is in their head and allows them to play that out by "directing their sim" to do it.
But, that's never been my play style. I have never ever been a micromanager when playing any of the sims games. My play style has always been similar to this: after the initial direction by me of getting their needs up and making sure they actually leave for work (if I want them to have a job) or school, I've always let the game and the sims themselves direct ME on what was going to happen in their little virtual lives. Sometimes I have a hazy, pre-defined idea of what I wanted my sim to do and accomplish in my head and had every intention of executing it, but the sims themselves and the game had other ideas and I just abandoned my original story that I had in my head and ran with it.
I don't have that happen in TS4, so instead I find other ways to entertain myself rather than actually "playing in live mode".
I feel this comes down to design decisions made early on when they decided to make the game accessible and marketed to 13 year olds (youngest ESRB allows under teen rating) which apparently means removing any form of challenge and the fact that the team had just come off designing a Sims online game, with that some of that mentality sticking as they designed Sims 4.
Honestly I've never understand the design decision to make the game "easy' no matter what type of game it was going to be, considering that overall the game industry is now driven by challenging players and players want challenge. When a person isn't challenged, or things are too easy players get bored and lose interest. This is universal.
For me this is most apparent in S4 when it comes to forming romantic relationships. Unless a sim flat out insults another sim first, literally any sim can seduce another sim with 4-6 clicks. Married or not, no matter what their personality (lol personality in the Sims right...) er traits are...honestly I've seen sims with romantic traits autonomously approach married sims and flirt with them successfully on community lots.
Why? Well this comes to down scoring system and I recall reading a mod authors notes who wanted to make relationships more challenging, they were shocked to discover when they began writing the mod that Maxis set the required score to successfully flirt with any other sims incredibly low.
So for example a sim needs to have a relationship score of 15 out of 100 points to make a positive romantic interaction which is literally "hello, chat, joke and than flirt.
Overall for whatever reason this was a design decision by Maxis and its definitely hurt this game as people get bored playing since everything can be achieved quickly and without any challenge more so by setting these score values so low it make the game feel unrealistic as a life simulator and can break player immersion.
However there is an easy fix and that would be for Maxis to do a massive balancing pass to all the underlying systems that are scored - which might sound like a huge project but companies do this all the time for their games sometimes completely re-working a games entire balance especially in strategy games such as published by Paradox or Creative Assembly. Now this wouldn't be such a "big project now" if they had been balancing the game over the years.
AND thats the thing - I can barely recall many patch notes over 6 years that didn't change the games playing balance in any meaningful way.
Ironically I suspect if they did now, this forum would fill up with people complaining things are too hard or take too long now too.
So there is that lol...
One other thing is in some ways the game suffers from "buff bloat" by caring over older gameplay mechanics (such as decorated rooms) that add up buffs ontop of buffs until basically sims remain constantly in a positive moodlet. I feel like some of these gameplay mechanics actually should have been removed or toned down but again this comes down to balance.
I feel this comes down to design decisions made early on when they decided to make the game accessible and marketed to 13 year olds (youngest ESRB allows under teen rating) which apparently means removing any form of challenge and the fact that the team had just come off designing a Sims online game, with that some of that mentality sticking as they designed Sims 4.
Honestly I've never understand the design decision to make the game "easy' no matter what type of game it was going to be, considering that overall the game industry is now driven by challenging players and players want challenge. When a person isn't challenged, or things are too easy players get bored and lose interest. This is universal.
For me this is most apparent in S4 when it comes to forming romantic relationships. Unless a sim flat out insults another sim first, literally any sim can seduce another sim with 4-6 clicks. Married or not, no matter what their personality (lol personality in the Sims right...) er traits are...honestly I've seen sims with romantic traits autonomously approach married sims and flirt with them successfully on community lots.
Why? Well this comes to down scoring system and I recall reading a mod authors notes who wanted to make relationships more challenging, they were shocked to discover when they began writing the mod that Maxis set the required score to successfully flirt with any other sims incredibly low.
So for example a sim needs to have a relationship score of 15 out of 100 points to make a positive romantic interaction which is literally "hello, chat, joke and than flirt.
Overall for whatever reason this was a design decision by Maxis and its definitely hurt this game as people get bored playing since everything can be achieved quickly and without any challenge more so by setting these score values so low it make the game feel unrealistic as a life simulator and can break player immersion.
However there is an easy fix and that would be for Maxis to do a massive balancing pass to all the underlying systems that are scored - which might sound like a huge project but companies do this all the time for their games sometimes completely re-working a games entire balance especially in strategy games such as published by Paradox or Creative Assembly. Now this wouldn't be such a "big project now" if they had been balancing the game over the years.
AND thats the thing - I can barely recall many patch notes over 6 years that didn't change the games playing balance in any meaningful way.
Ironically I suspect if they did now, this forum would fill up with people complaining things are too hard or take too long now too.
So there is that lol...
One other thing is in some ways the game suffers from "buff bloat" by caring over older gameplay mechanics (such as decorated rooms) that add up buffs ontop of buffs until basically sims remain constantly in a positive moodlet. I feel like some of these gameplay mechanics actually should have been removed or toned down but again this comes down to balance.
They can overcome this by creating different modes, storytelling mode and challenge mode. The first being the game as it is, the latter being a revamp of the buffs, traits, scoring, and advertising.
During this sale they're having on steam...I know a few people that bought the game because it's like $4. Well, they tried it for about an hour and were so bored...they literally messaged me 🐸🐸🐸🐸 is this it's not a sims game. I do play, but my game is so heavily modded that it's nothing like the actual game. I know that when I came back to the game, I was bored really quickly, too. I'm hesitant to mod because of the update schedule, but honestly, without mods I can't find enjoyment in actually playing the game. Build/buy and CAS are on point, but that's really all this game has to offer people that actually want to play a game.
I'm like @Chicklet453681 and @NationalPokedex in that I like my sims to guide me where their lives want to go so when I assign traits, I expect the game to make my sims act within the limits of those traits. It's game breaking when they don't because they should and always have in previous games. I don't think it's too much to expect the game to behave similarly as the series progresses.
In my Sims 3 I can't seem to have more than one household that I create in the same game save & it's always been like this.
As for my Hybrids in Sims 4; I've made my sims with the Vampire traits & powers, Witch traits & powers & sometimes the Mermaid traits.
@SERVERFRA You can always go to "Manage world" and create as many households in the same save game as you want. The Sims 3 doesn't limit the amount of households you can create in one save.
Also I have looked it up and the Sims 4 doesn't allow Hybrids unless you use cheats and they could even damage your game. Does anyone know more and care to elaborate?
In my Sims 3 I can't seem to have more than one household that I create in the same game save & it's always been like this.
As for my Hybrids in Sims 4; I've made my sims with the Vampire traits & powers, Witch traits & powers & sometimes the Mermaid traits.
@SERVERFRA You can always go to "Manage world" and create as many households in the same save game as you want. The Sims 3 doesn't limit the amount of households you can create in one save.
Also I have looked it up and the Sims 4 doesn't allow Hybrids unless you use cheats and they could even damage your game. Does anyone know more and care to elaborate?
In Sims 3 when you change households it removes all the wishes that your sims had in the previous household. My siblings and I used to all play on the same save in Sims 3, and I could never get attached to any household, because the way I play that game heavily revolves around their wishes. Honestly, the whim system is my biggest gripe with Sims 4, I wish they were more like they were in Sims 3. Then again, I wouldn't play rotationally if that was the case, so it's a win/lose situation. It doesn't technically stop you from making more then one household, but at least in my opinion (accidentally deleted this lol) to it would've been pointless to do so.
Also, I'm pretty sure people can have born in game hybrids in Sims 4, but I've never had it happen so I don't know 100%.
In my Sims 3 I can't seem to have more than one household that I create in the same game save & it's always been like this.
As for my Hybrids in Sims 4; I've made my sims with the Vampire traits & powers, Witch traits & powers & sometimes the Mermaid traits.
@SERVERFRA You can always go to "Manage world" and create as many households in the same save game as you want. The Sims 3 doesn't limit the amount of households you can create in one save.
Also I have looked it up and the Sims 4 doesn't allow Hybrids unless you use cheats and they could even damage your game. Does anyone know more and care to elaborate?
In Sims 3 when you change households it removes all the wishes that your sims had in the previous household. My siblings and I used to all play on the same save in Sims 3, and I could never get attached to any household, because the way I play that game heavily revolves around their wishes. Honestly, the whim system is my biggest gripe with Sims 4, I wish they were more like they were in Sims 3. Then again, I wouldn't play rotationally if that was the case, so it's a win/lose situation. It doesn't technically stop you from making more then one household, but at least in my opinion (accidentally deleted this lol) to it would've been pointless to do so.
Also, I'm pretty sure people can have born in game hybrids in Sims 4, but I've never had it happen so I don't know 100%.
With a couple of mods in TS3 you can switch to as many households as you want and not lose wants, inventory, or anything else.
In TS3, I jump around town all day long and play with the whole world, not just one family. It can be done without losing progress.
In my Sims 3 I can't seem to have more than one household that I create in the same game save & it's always been like this.
As for my Hybrids in Sims 4; I've made my sims with the Vampire traits & powers, Witch traits & powers & sometimes the Mermaid traits.
@SERVERFRA You can always go to "Manage world" and create as many households in the same save game as you want. The Sims 3 doesn't limit the amount of households you can create in one save.
Also I have looked it up and the Sims 4 doesn't allow Hybrids unless you use cheats and they could even damage your game. Does anyone know more and care to elaborate?
In Sims 3 when you change households it removes all the wishes that your sims had in the previous household. My siblings and I used to all play on the same save in Sims 3, and I could never get attached to any household, because the way I play that game heavily revolves around their wishes. Honestly, the whim system is my biggest gripe with Sims 4, I wish they were more like they were in Sims 3. Then again, I wouldn't play rotationally if that was the case, so it's a win/lose situation. It doesn't technically stop you from making more then one household, but at least in my opinion (accidentally deleted this lol) to it would've been pointless to do so.
Also, I'm pretty sure people can have born in game hybrids in Sims 4, but I've never had it happen so I don't know 100%.
With a couple of mods in TS3 you can switch to as many households as you want and not lose wants, inventory, or anything else.
In TS3, I jump around town all day long and play with the whole world, not just one family. It can be done without losing progress.
I feel this comes down to design decisions made early on when they decided to make the game accessible and marketed to 13 year olds (youngest ESRB allows under teen rating) which apparently means removing any form of challenge and the fact that the team had just come off designing a Sims online game, with that some of that mentality sticking as they designed Sims 4.
Honestly I've never understand the design decision to make the game "easy' no matter what type of game it was going to be, considering that overall the game industry is now driven by challenging players and players want challenge. When a person isn't challenged, or things are too easy players get bored and lose interest. This is universal.
For me this is most apparent in S4 when it comes to forming romantic relationships. Unless a sim flat out insults another sim first, literally any sim can seduce another sim with 4-6 clicks. Married or not, no matter what their personality (lol personality in the Sims right...) er traits are...honestly I've seen sims with romantic traits autonomously approach married sims and flirt with them successfully on community lots.
Why? Well this comes to down scoring system and I recall reading a mod authors notes who wanted to make relationships more challenging, they were shocked to discover when they began writing the mod that Maxis set the required score to successfully flirt with any other sims incredibly low.
So for example a sim needs to have a relationship score of 15 out of 100 points to make a positive romantic interaction which is literally "hello, chat, joke and than flirt.
Overall for whatever reason this was a design decision by Maxis and its definitely hurt this game as people get bored playing since everything can be achieved quickly and without any challenge more so by setting these score values so low it make the game feel unrealistic as a life simulator and can break player immersion.
However there is an easy fix and that would be for Maxis to do a massive balancing pass to all the underlying systems that are scored - which might sound like a huge project but companies do this all the time for their games sometimes completely re-working a games entire balance especially in strategy games such as published by Paradox or Creative Assembly. Now this wouldn't be such a "big project now" if they had been balancing the game over the years.
AND thats the thing - I can barely recall many patch notes over 6 years that didn't change the games playing balance in any meaningful way.
Ironically I suspect if they did now, this forum would fill up with people complaining things are too hard or take too long now too.
So there is that lol...
One other thing is in some ways the game suffers from "buff bloat" by caring over older gameplay mechanics (such as decorated rooms) that add up buffs ontop of buffs until basically sims remain constantly in a positive moodlet. I feel like some of these gameplay mechanics actually should have been removed or toned down but again this comes down to balance.
Yes, romance and friendships should have a difficulty level based on an attraction system (romance) and common interests and traits (friendship). I have a mod that adds an attraction system, but it doesn't seem to make romance any more difficult. It just alerts you when your Sim is attracted or repulsed by another Sim. It is still up to you to act on it. Sims should try and autonomously flirt with Sims they are attracted to if they are single.
Married Sims should not be easy to seduce unless they are serial romantics. I am so tired of my happily married Sim getting an invitation to go on a date from another married Sim.
In my Sims 3 I can't seem to have more than one household that I create in the same game save & it's always been like this.
As for my Hybrids in Sims 4; I've made my sims with the Vampire traits & powers, Witch traits & powers & sometimes the Mermaid traits.
You just have to go into Edit town in TS3 and click the household you want to change to then click "Switch to this household" just like in TS4. Its the button with 2 houses. Should be 4th from the left. Only thing TS4 improves here is loading times between worlds.
Also TS3 has way more advanced building than TS4. Only thing TS4 does is make it very simple to move, resize and replace rooms/walls. In terms of everything else though there is either a cheat to enable it or TS4 doesn't have it.
Comments
Personally the Sims 4 does not give me control to play out the stories I want without being a pain in the as*. I know a lot of people say they feel like this game gives them more "control", whatever that's suppsed to mean. But I find that the game goes against my storylines tons of times.
The Sims 4 isn't a blank canvas imo. It might be one in certain areas but then other areas are super random, and intrusive to your made up story (friendly socializing after a fight, emotions not corresponding to events happening, idle interactions interrupting sim actions etc.) or they are so restrictive that you just cannot do a lot of things (choose colors, create own worlds, lots, environments etc.)
At the end of the day, it's not challenging and unpredictable enough to completely satisfy my life simulation needs and it's not customizable and flexible enough to satisfy my sandbox needs.
Exactly. Imagine you are roleplaying a death. Ok the Sim dies (Which btw its way harder to actually get a Sim to die than to revive them). Now your entire family is sad... except they aren't, Well they are but they have 3 Happiness buffs from random things like décor and waking up in a good mood ect, overriding the sadness entirely. So now you have Sims cheering and being happy and smiling. Amazing story telling.
Sims 4 doesn't give players more control. It removes the things that gives the game replayability and variation. The only aspect of TS4 that has more options and control than other Sims games is what you can disable and not choose to deal with. Again, like emotions.. or death.. or fun.
Nvm the fact that half the time interactions get canceled. Ever woken up, set up 4 actions in queue then have them be entirely canceled by a mouse in a TLC apartment? Or have them be canceled by the group of Sims all sprinting to have a convo with your Sim and becoming "Good" friends with them just through chatting and stopping your Sims for doing what you want them to do? Oh yes definitely more control
EtA that i prefer the game aspect that sims 3 throws at the player, better than the control aspect in sims 4. Anyway, i think sims 4 do well what it does, and it has it's audience, people that love it for what it is (me included).
The autonomy is what takes away your control in this game and it does it by a lot. I want to make 2 sims fight because that's my story yet the autonomy keeps making them like each other. They are totally fighting back and don't want to be unfriendly to each other.
But things like deaths and stuff are easier to do, though totally possible in previous games with cheats as well for storyline purposes.
If all Sims don't acknowledge their environments then you can never have a Sim that does acknowledge their environment, and what if you want that? If Sims don't change based on your actions, then what is the point of doing them? I guess here would be a good place for you to give examples of what you mean, because I might be misunderstanding you. If Sims don't do anything, then how can they be anything?
Sims in Sims 4 are just kind of... goofy. Their autonomy is wacky and the auras are overpowered (I think auras ruined the entire emotion system for me).
I feel like Sims 3 or even Sims 2, which was arguably the most rigid/structured entry in the series, allow me to play out my sims' life stories how I want. I usually cheat my sims' interests in 2, and that combined with their personality, aspiration, LTW, and turn-ons/turn-offs make them feel much more representative of the character I have in my head than a blank slate that just constantly makes food and likes everyone they meet. Once I leave CAS in 2 and 3, it feels like my Sims will be set up to cooperate with the creative direction I want their lives to go in, and if I run out of ideas they can continue their arc until a new plan comes to mind. With Sims 4, I have to battle with my sims to make them feel like the sim I envisioned in CAS, if that makes any sense.
And yeah, skill-building in 4 is OP, and it's also too easy to earn money.
This makes sense! And, I agree.
For example:
Sims 4 doesn't have Color Wheel, Body Hair, Nails, Eye Lashes, Spiral Stairs, No Werewolves/Fairies/Genies, Lunar Moon, Cars & Proper Teens.
Sims 3 lacks Building Tools, No Gallery, Each Playable Household has to be a New Game Save.
When I miss my Werewolves/Fairies/Genies & Cars, I play Sims 3.
When I want to Build & make Hybrids I play Sims 4.
Yes, the autonomy is crazy. Yet, if you play with autonomy off it is easier to mold characters.
And yes, in previous games it is possible to do the same with cheats. Yet 4 seems to be designed more to let the player control their stories while previous games seem more like a game (which i actually prefer).
You are misunderstanding me
If Sims don't do anything, then how can they be anything?
Sims do what the players want them to do, so they are what thr player wants them to be.
Does it make the game funnier? It depends on what the person is looking for. I personally prefer the sims to have personality and acknowledge their environment. But others prefer this way.
Like i said before, sims 4 used to do what i think it was designed to do, before it being so buggy and the autonony being all over the place...
I'm very recently playing both too. I have a save in 4 where i'm colonizing every world. It takes me having full control of all the sims in all the worlds, all the neighbourhoods and all community lots. I know what i want before i have started.
In 3 i just fire the game, randomize a sim in cas and play. I don't know what i want from the beginning. But the story is unfolding, as my sims character grows.
The games are different and react differently.
@SERVERFRA You don't have to start a new save for every new household you want to play though.
Also what do you mean by Hybrids? As far as I know you are not allowed to make hybrid occults in the Sims 4.
As for my Hybrids in Sims 4; I've made my sims with the Vampire traits & powers, Witch traits & powers & sometimes the Mermaid traits.
Thanks for explaining. I understand better now.
I'm going to try to explain my thought, and hope that it's not too confusing....I think if I'm playing a game where I am given the opportunity, actually required to (either by careful selection or randomization) input some semblance of personality into the game itself using some form of personality builder, then I don't want to have to do so much imagining on my own. Some imagining is fine. But, I do expect the game to understand the character I'm playing because the game had me build a personality, so the systems in the game should work with that personality to make the gaming experience unique to that personality. If the game never gives me the opportunity to build a personality using a system, then I'm all for imagining my character's personality.
For example, in Skyrim, I use my imagination a lot for my character build, and it impacts the choices I make for my character. It's all in my head. I never got to input into a system how good or evil or smart or deceptive my character is, so I had no expectation for the game to somehow showcase my character's personality because I built my character over time in my mind as I played them.
On the other hand, in Crusader Kings 3, the characters all operate under a fairly complex personality system, and this in turn affects a multitude of things in the game, like how a character reacts to a certain event, how a character interacts with other people, etc. As the player, I make the choices for my character on what they do, but the game basically says that "based on your character's personality, if you do this_____, this is the consequence (good or bad)." And this is for not just my character, but the AI characters as well (I'm not making choices for them, but they will do things according to their personality).
Now obviously, Skyrim is not a simulation and Crusader Kings 3 is, right. We can see why these two games would be set up differently. Even a game like Animal Crossing which falls more in line with life simulation doesn't require any sort of personality builder, which means that I'm free to imagine up any kind of character outside of the game's system. And I don't expect the game to know who my character is beyond the actual actions of running around fishing and catching bugs, etc. I don't have the expectation that the game knows who my character is because the game never asked.
But, TS4 is supposed to be a simulation. EA calls it a life simulation game. TS4 makes you build a character, or play with a character that has been built by the game itself. By having a personality builder in the game, TS4 is telling me that your character's personality matters at a system level. The game wants to/needs to know who your character is. From there, I have an expectation that the game should be taking into account player input, and then throwing back at me results/consequences based on how I built my character. Now, I will say that the game does do this with Emotions. But, Emotions are a simple response to events, other Sims, decor, and sometimes absolutely nothing at all. They fall short because there’s nothing else to operate as a lasting consequence. That's not nearly enough, in my opinion. If the characters can be molded to what players want to do solely because the game doesn't have any response back, or it doesn't put up a fight, that tells me that the game is not a simulation.
So many players say that they are creating the idea of the characters all in their imagination. I shouldn't have to imagine who my Sim is because the game asked me who they are and I told it. (And this gets into the entire argument about how there's not even enough systems in place to make a full personality at the game level, which speaks to why it's easier for people to imagine personalities that aren't there).
And I'm not trying to attack anyone's style of gameplay, but it is hard to accept TS4 by its definition of a life simulation game when I have seen a life simulation game done as a simulation game in TS2.
Anyways, I didn't mean to get so off track from what the OP was saying. But I do think ultimately the game's imbalance....part of it comes from this lack of actual simulation. From my perspective, some players feel like they have more control and some feel like they have less control because the game isn't doing its job.
(All of this is my interpretation and my expectations, and obviously people have opposing views about expectations for the game).
I see 4 as a different game from the previous in the series. And i can see the appeal of it as it is.
I have been playing it for the last 2 years and i have fun with it. But... i do need my smartphone around, with a randomizer and some lists to help me work through my story (i'm not the criative type) while in 3 i don't need anything outside of the game.
I have the same thought process as you ..... if a program asks me to input certain information, then I'm thinking obviously this is to customize the program how I personally want it to behave. If I take the time to input information, I don't expect the program to basically ignore my check marks of things I want it to do and just go about running it in the default state any way.
Why bother to ask what we want our sims personality traits to be if there is so little influence on how they behave with those traits and just end up basically acting like any other random sim I didn't customize.
In games that don't allow you to customize your character beyond the look and the skills they have for their chosen career path and will behave exactly how the game coded them to act, then I don't get worked up about that. But if a game gives me the option to pick and choose traits to customize my character so that they act, think, and behave a certain way then I expect that to happen.
It's very hard for me to personally get into actually playing TS4 because of this. I build (not greatly, mind you), create CC for the game, decorate other amazing creator's houses, occasionally create CC free sims that I literally never, ever play with, and enjoy TS4 for what it is to me, but playing it doesn't really hold my interest compared to other games.
I know that there are a lot of people who really enjoy the fact that the game doesn't go against the story that is in their head and allows them to play that out by "directing their sim" to do it.
But, that's never been my play style. I have never ever been a micromanager when playing any of the sims games. My play style has always been similar to this: after the initial direction by me of getting their needs up and making sure they actually leave for work (if I want them to have a job) or school, I've always let the game and the sims themselves direct ME on what was going to happen in their little virtual lives. Sometimes I have a hazy, pre-defined idea of what I wanted my sim to do and accomplish in my head and had every intention of executing it, but the sims themselves and the game had other ideas and I just abandoned my original story that I had in my head and ran with it.
I don't have that happen in TS4, so instead I find other ways to entertain myself rather than actually "playing in live mode".
Honestly I've never understand the design decision to make the game "easy' no matter what type of game it was going to be, considering that overall the game industry is now driven by challenging players and players want challenge. When a person isn't challenged, or things are too easy players get bored and lose interest. This is universal.
For me this is most apparent in S4 when it comes to forming romantic relationships. Unless a sim flat out insults another sim first, literally any sim can seduce another sim with 4-6 clicks. Married or not, no matter what their personality (lol personality in the Sims right...) er traits are...honestly I've seen sims with romantic traits autonomously approach married sims and flirt with them successfully on community lots.
Why? Well this comes to down scoring system and I recall reading a mod authors notes who wanted to make relationships more challenging, they were shocked to discover when they began writing the mod that Maxis set the required score to successfully flirt with any other sims incredibly low.
So for example a sim needs to have a relationship score of 15 out of 100 points to make a positive romantic interaction which is literally "hello, chat, joke and than flirt.
Overall for whatever reason this was a design decision by Maxis and its definitely hurt this game as people get bored playing since everything can be achieved quickly and without any challenge more so by setting these score values so low it make the game feel unrealistic as a life simulator and can break player immersion.
However there is an easy fix and that would be for Maxis to do a massive balancing pass to all the underlying systems that are scored - which might sound like a huge project but companies do this all the time for their games sometimes completely re-working a games entire balance especially in strategy games such as published by Paradox or Creative Assembly. Now this wouldn't be such a "big project now" if they had been balancing the game over the years.
AND thats the thing - I can barely recall many patch notes over 6 years that didn't change the games playing balance in any meaningful way.
Ironically I suspect if they did now, this forum would fill up with people complaining things are too hard or take too long now too.
So there is that lol...
One other thing is in some ways the game suffers from "buff bloat" by caring over older gameplay mechanics (such as decorated rooms) that add up buffs ontop of buffs until basically sims remain constantly in a positive moodlet. I feel like some of these gameplay mechanics actually should have been removed or toned down but again this comes down to balance.
They can overcome this by creating different modes, storytelling mode and challenge mode. The first being the game as it is, the latter being a revamp of the buffs, traits, scoring, and advertising.
During this sale they're having on steam...I know a few people that bought the game because it's like $4. Well, they tried it for about an hour and were so bored...they literally messaged me 🐸🐸🐸🐸 is this it's not a sims game. I do play, but my game is so heavily modded that it's nothing like the actual game. I know that when I came back to the game, I was bored really quickly, too. I'm hesitant to mod because of the update schedule, but honestly, without mods I can't find enjoyment in actually playing the game. Build/buy and CAS are on point, but that's really all this game has to offer people that actually want to play a game.
I'm like @Chicklet453681 and @NationalPokedex in that I like my sims to guide me where their lives want to go so when I assign traits, I expect the game to make my sims act within the limits of those traits. It's game breaking when they don't because they should and always have in previous games. I don't think it's too much to expect the game to behave similarly as the series progresses.
@SERVERFRA You can always go to "Manage world" and create as many households in the same save game as you want. The Sims 3 doesn't limit the amount of households you can create in one save.
Also I have looked it up and the Sims 4 doesn't allow Hybrids unless you use cheats and they could even damage your game. Does anyone know more and care to elaborate?
In Sims 3 when you change households it removes all the wishes that your sims had in the previous household. My siblings and I used to all play on the same save in Sims 3, and I could never get attached to any household, because the way I play that game heavily revolves around their wishes. Honestly, the whim system is my biggest gripe with Sims 4, I wish they were more like they were in Sims 3. Then again, I wouldn't play rotationally if that was the case, so it's a win/lose situation. It doesn't technically stop you from making more then one household, but at least in my opinion (accidentally deleted this lol) to it would've been pointless to do so.
Also, I'm pretty sure people can have born in game hybrids in Sims 4, but I've never had it happen so I don't know 100%.
With a couple of mods in TS3 you can switch to as many households as you want and not lose wants, inventory, or anything else.
In TS3, I jump around town all day long and play with the whole world, not just one family. It can be done without losing progress.
Woah really? OMG what mods?
Yes, romance and friendships should have a difficulty level based on an attraction system (romance) and common interests and traits (friendship). I have a mod that adds an attraction system, but it doesn't seem to make romance any more difficult. It just alerts you when your Sim is attracted or repulsed by another Sim. It is still up to you to act on it. Sims should try and autonomously flirt with Sims they are attracted to if they are single.
Married Sims should not be easy to seduce unless they are serial romantics. I am so tired of my happily married Sim getting an invitation to go on a date from another married Sim.
You just have to go into Edit town in TS3 and click the household you want to change to then click "Switch to this household" just like in TS4. Its the button with 2 houses. Should be 4th from the left. Only thing TS4 improves here is loading times between worlds.
If you are still having issues Here you go.
Also TS3 has way more advanced building than TS4. Only thing TS4 does is make it very simple to move, resize and replace rooms/walls. In terms of everything else though there is either a cheat to enable it or TS4 doesn't have it.