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Why Wasn't There A Mention About This? Pronoun Changes?
Cinebar
Posts: 33,618 Member
Reading some threads and other Simmers posting what is said (text) about the Sim such as she/he just go a promotion etc. or anything like that, but not at all about the following subject, why did Maxis not make an announcement in patch notes or other areas of the forum that the pronouns are changed in TS4? No longer does the game say he/she but used the pronouns like They and Them. There was a thread once about wanting all these pronouns to be changed in the game if there were any popups etc.
Interesting to see Maxis developers went ahead and made these changes without any mention of this as if this is everyday speech of the masses without ever mentioning it to the public let alone the players who already have the game.
Dear Maxis, in some circles you would be commended for these changes. However, you owed it to the public and the players who buy your products you were going to change the grammar of the game to exclude He/She pronouns and change all that to They/Them.
This is not everyday speech of the masses. We all know it isn't. Let's not pretend it is. I struggle with my grammar as it is since I have some cognitive problems and I lose my words and thought to even write a proper sentence sometimes. Let alone call a single Sim a plural pronoun. I don't want to have the argument if this is proper or not, only that people should have been informed.
I don't want to be a negative Nancy, but Maxis if you are going to do these things they should at least be in the patch notes. Parents and Players have a right to know, don't they? Especially those parents who buy your products for their kids and want them to be known as He or She. To expand on my thought about this, are there toggles to allow the game to decide if the text of a popup uses He/She/They/Them? No? I'm very disappointed in Maxis did Not inform those who respect the he/she populations nor inform players or parents they and them would replace those pronouns.
Are these changes only if someone uses the gender patch? How does this work? Any announcements gender patch was updated to do this? I'm disappointed people were not informed at all. ???
Interesting to see Maxis developers went ahead and made these changes without any mention of this as if this is everyday speech of the masses without ever mentioning it to the public let alone the players who already have the game.
Dear Maxis, in some circles you would be commended for these changes. However, you owed it to the public and the players who buy your products you were going to change the grammar of the game to exclude He/She pronouns and change all that to They/Them.
This is not everyday speech of the masses. We all know it isn't. Let's not pretend it is. I struggle with my grammar as it is since I have some cognitive problems and I lose my words and thought to even write a proper sentence sometimes. Let alone call a single Sim a plural pronoun. I don't want to have the argument if this is proper or not, only that people should have been informed.
I don't want to be a negative Nancy, but Maxis if you are going to do these things they should at least be in the patch notes. Parents and Players have a right to know, don't they? Especially those parents who buy your products for their kids and want them to be known as He or She. To expand on my thought about this, are there toggles to allow the game to decide if the text of a popup uses He/She/They/Them? No? I'm very disappointed in Maxis did Not inform those who respect the he/she populations nor inform players or parents they and them would replace those pronouns.
Are these changes only if someone uses the gender patch? How does this work? Any announcements gender patch was updated to do this? I'm disappointed people were not informed at all. ???
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Post edited by Cinebar on
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Comments
Searching the web I found an article about a petition requesting new pronouns.
The Sims 4 fans petition for pronoun options to be added.
The campaign has more than 2,000 signatures so far.
https://www.digitalspy.com/tech/a35950846/sims-4-pronouns-petition/
Yes, In a few minutes when I find it again. The thread wasn't about pronouns just showing what text is received with a new trait being filled etc. I just happened to notice the text was they or them instead of he or she. I wondered if this is something done with gender patch or if this is a full blown change of the texts in the game about anything related to a Sim. There were many threads here demanding these changes, I have yet to see Maxis address these requests in a sensical manner. And as far as any petitions on line, some could get just as many not to remove he or she.
I haven't loaded the game, it's very early. lol
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/988174/lets-find-those-trait-improvements#latest
ETA: I read the petition linked by Simgirl, however, even if a player picks male or female frames for their Sim, the player and a parent has right to know of these changes in any new packs and or the player should have the option even if a female frame for their Sim if the popup text calls that Sim a he or she or they. Maxis has failed to provide fairness across the board here. I don't know if the Sim pictured who rec'd the new notice about a new trait action/perk etc. was a female frame or not picked in CAS, but that isn't the point, the point is Maxis should inform the public of any major changes so parents can decide what to buy and what not to buy. Players should be able to see their Sim as a he or she in the body of a text, and Maxis has failed to address these requests in a sensical manner that would be acceptable to all. ETA: And Maxis there are plenty of trans that want to be called he or she, no matter what frame they pick (if due to gender patch) who want to be called he or she and not they or them. This doesn't please a lot of folks with a blanket change without notice.
I got a user recommended on twitter (twitter does that if you follow specific topics, in this case, the sims) that seems to post every day where they ask about pronoun changes in the sims.
There was a huge thread here months ago, It is possibly closed or deleted, as some would not listen to those who wanted to keep he and she, too and a lot of arguing by the end of it.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/957752/new-pronoun-options-please/p1
lol, time flies on a solid year lockdown...no wonder I can't remember how long ago. ETA: Reread the thread, it seems most of us agreed there should be options for the player, right? But no, Maxis does this on the sly and just goes ahead and changes pronouns seen in the new trait systems mechanics in the body of texts. Why be so secretive, Maxis? Why not inform the public of these changes? That is my beef and if all the older pronouns in texts of the game will eventually disappear?
There SHOULD be a way to check mark preference for specific sims. MOST people like a particular pronoun. Let us/they/them CHOOSE!
Smh...
People posting in the comment of Carl's recent video (Carl Sims Guides) where he covered the new trait changes thinks one reason why their patch notes were so secretive was because Maxis did not want to make a big deal out of it, because this was an update for the players and they wanted us to discover it on our own.
Some even think they wanted to hide it from EA's noses. I'm not so sure about that...maybe this is just because they are all working from home and this was an easy way to implement changes that a bunch of people had done without going into detail.
Or they want people to accept the changes without drawing attention to themselves as if this is everyday language and we should all just accept it? I can see that argument, too. It's called influence. In media such as movies, books, TV, games etc. It's like a child sees these things and thinks everyone is saying they and them, I guess I won't say he and she no more. But there are people today who still identify as he or she. No matter their gender identity. ETA: Language evolves over time, not forced implementation forcing everyone to drop he or she.
I assumed that trying to get the game to always correctly identify he or she or them individually would be a lot of extra coding and text, so they just wouldn't bother. Maybe it would be something they would bring into another game from the beginning.
So I'm not surprised at all that, since they decided to do it, they just went with they/them across the board. It's simpler. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm surprised that Sims wasn't gender neutral from day one 21 years ago, because it is simpler. Sims don't speak any human languages, so I think players would have just accepted it as it was had it always been that way.
Have you noticed it's across the board? Does these changes appear in the base game texts etc.? Or any EP pack texts etc.? I mean are they phasing out he and she from the game and actually changing base game text\ popups? Just a thought, but how does inclusive mean exclusive?
I will say about the subject in general though that I can imagine if that's how you see yourself in the game it might be hard to see yourself labeled as a "he" or "she" if you don't identify with that. So if they are or were implementing these types of changes it wouldn't bother me.
Adding... after looking at the numerous moodlets with all three sims while my game was paused I did see one they.. it was about being happy to be on their home turf when "they're in their neighborhood" the rest either were more blanket statements or said he or she type of words.
From the recent gameplay kit I have a moodlet that says inspired by his sparkling clean surroundings ect.. So this makes me doubt that it's some secretive assimilation "trick" being played on us. Hehe... "sim", get it?
[inappropriate remark removed - EA_Leeloo]
I noticed it in all the texts I've read, but it's worth noting that I barely read them and it could only be in a few. I glance at them to see what the topic is and that's about it, so I couldn't tell you how much they are affected. The popups are just there to tell me basics I need to know, it wouldn't matter to me if they were even in complete sentences. They could just say "Level 10 achieved" and I'd be happy.
Isn't that message about being on their own home turf a base game text? I seem to recall that several years ago, or maybe it was one of the EPs. I can't remember but I think it was he and or she before. I'm not saying they are trying to secretive assimilation trick but want to know why players and parents aren't informed of any pronoun changes. It would be a horrible shame if he and she are completely removed, in order to be 'inclusive' for others who don't identify as either.
I hope the thread is not closed or removed. I know the EULA for these Sim games say they can do whatever they want, sold as is, whatever, and can change whatever they want about a game and people have to accept that, however, this is not a minor issue or cause, or something as simple as patching out a trait or an interaction or action. There are a great deal of organizations who lobby for changes but what can be done to keep he and she for those of us who want to leave in he and she? And want notices of any thing changed in the games before we spend anymore money. I just think some changes should be known to parents and the public of this magnitude. It's no small deal.
Thank you, I hope he and she, or mom and dad, uncle and aunt etc. are not phased out, too, as the game proceeds.
I'm sorry but... does the way the popups are worded affect how you are referred to in real life?
I know some people who identify as they/them in real life and it has in no way affected my still being she/her. Because that's how I identify. I've never been able to get my head around this argument. It's like if someone else named Lisa decided they didn't want to go by that name anymore and I claimed that meant they were keeping me from using the name.
All that said, I stick by my first analysis of why they did it. People were asking for the option, and this was simpler then recoding the entire game to include a mechanic that didn't exist.
And finally, they/them is gender neutral and therefore all inclusive by its very nature. It doesn't exclude anyone. That's why you can say things like "Are they going to call me? Maybe I should call them." and be referring to anyone.
I'm not going to say anything else.
It certainly affects others who made the requests to remove he and she and replace with they or them etc. The changes are an influence to the greater populations to no longer call anyone he and she but to replace with they or them. I'm sorry I can't conform to that and won't. Actually, I can't actually apologize for seeing inclusion becoming nothing more than excluded. Individual matters to me a great deal. Whether that be wanting to be called he or she or they, but not a blanket they or them. There is an old saying 'you lose your language, you lose yourself.'