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The Sims in the mainstream media
KatAnubis
Posts: 3,241 Member
Today a friend posted an article about the COVID pandemic that she had found. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/03/what-pandemic-doing-our-brains/618221/?fbclid=IwAR27cb_ESDso1_oUjec91G2bK22HCQl9g2wkoG473Zgc9MxDj5Xylyfb3Bs
What I found interesting is the amount of time that the author spent talking about The Sims franchise.
She said that it's repetitive. I don't find it so. I find that especially TS4 (where you can turn off autonomy) is much freer for me. I can finally have them do what I want so that I can use *my* imagination to tell my stories. I never run out of things to do with them (even when I only had base game but there is so much more that I can do now that I have the EPs and GPs.)
It took me a lot of time to figure out why people were complaining about how they found the other games gave them so much more. I had to watch a lot of gamer videos. Then I realized, they wanted it to all unfold *for* them and be much more like watching a drama play back, rather than truly making their own dramas.
I think it's cool that I can do what I want. But I also feel for the people who want to have the game make choices for them that they then have to cope with. We're back to the old TS2 "As played by" commercial tag: How do you play?
What I found interesting is the amount of time that the author spent talking about The Sims franchise.
She said that it's repetitive. I don't find it so. I find that especially TS4 (where you can turn off autonomy) is much freer for me. I can finally have them do what I want so that I can use *my* imagination to tell my stories. I never run out of things to do with them (even when I only had base game but there is so much more that I can do now that I have the EPs and GPs.)
It took me a lot of time to figure out why people were complaining about how they found the other games gave them so much more. I had to watch a lot of gamer videos. Then I realized, they wanted it to all unfold *for* them and be much more like watching a drama play back, rather than truly making their own dramas.
I think it's cool that I can do what I want. But I also feel for the people who want to have the game make choices for them that they then have to cope with. We're back to the old TS2 "As played by" commercial tag: How do you play?
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Comments
What are you talking about??? You can turn off autonomy on the other iterations too so you can do whatever you want with them. What a strange thing to say!
For example: A lot of people say they were annoyed that their sims would not want to clean and that the game felt like it was intrusive. But in reality, they are the ones who made their sims either "lazy" or "sloppy". The Sims 2 and 3 doesn't make choices for you, you choose the sims personality in the CAS, the game then plays it out for you.
Another example: If you want two sims to get together then give them compatible traits and aspirations? You have the choice. If you want two sims to like each other but you give them conflicting traits, then that's your fault, the game is basically doing what you chose.
The problem with the Sims 4 is not that it doesn't make choices for you. It is that it doesn't play out your choices. If I choose my sim to be mean, then I want them to do mean stuff, if I want my two sims to not get along because of their traits then I want to actually see them argue.
So yeah, Sims 2 and 3: You make the choices, the game plays them out
Sims 4: You make choices, the game ignores them and you have to manually instigate them and imagine they happened naturally.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCaj9o4hycNSPy8U1Ip0OCFA/videos
@Sallycutecat I don't understand it when people say you can't do what you want in the previous games. Of course you can, you always could. In which way did the previous games restrict you from doing that? Can you give an example?
In the previous games you made all the choices like I mentioned in my previous post.
In the Sims 4 I find even if you want to make the drama happen, it doesn't happen. You have to imagine so much because a lot of things just don't happen. When I decide to cheat in a relationship for drama to happen, it's so mild it's almost nothing. Like I'm trying to get sims to not like each other and I can't no matter how much I try. The Sims 4 doesn't allow for creative freedom at all in my opinion, it simply forces you to imagine the things you want to happen because it doesn't do it.
I never said you can't do what you want in the previous games. I said Sims 4 allows the player to have more control than the previous ones. That's not saying there was no control in the others.
Since you asked, one of the things I found restricted me from doing what I wanted was the aspiration meter in Sims 2. Like I said, I like to do my own thing and because I didn't do what the game rolled as a want for my Sim, their aspiration meter was often in the red and then the Sim needed therapy instead of doing what I wanted them to do. Also the need decay was so fast that I couldn't have them do what I wanted. With Sims 3 it didn't run on my computer very well and the lag and glitches actually prevented me from playing the game. This was a huge restriction on being able to do what I want.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCaj9o4hycNSPy8U1Ip0OCFA/videos
@Sallycutecat But then again, you choose what wants your sims get and if you want to have a sim with a family then give them the right aspiration? This way it won't go red? Easy as that, it's all your choice.
For me the Sims 4 doesn't allow for any more control than previous games but I would love to hear an example as to how it gives you more control? I feel like the sims 4 is a way too restricted experience and it also because it is this way it is very difficult to generate the drama one might want since the sims will be friendly to each other even after you made them fight.
Also the emotions system in the Sims 4 is also very restricting, just like the wants, but since it's also so unstable it makes it hard to play the game without cheating since your sims emotions are way to uncontrollable.
The glitches and bugs are all over the Sims 4 which prevents me from playing certain saves and the retail system doesn't work in my game either, or dine out.
For me the Sims 4 doesn't allow for any more control than the previous games.
And at the end of the day this is supposed to be a game and a game is supposed to provide challenge and do stuff on its own. If not then it's not a game, it's just a dollhouse. If I wanted to play with dolls I can do it without the Sims.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
There were times I turned off freewill, (you can also turn off freewill in all the other three games) they still got up out of a seat I had commanded they stay put and move to interfere with the Sims I was filming or taking screen shots about and or just playing for a moment. They couldn't even stay seated for two seconds. Freewill Off.
In other instances how did I have anymore control over a TS4 Sim when I was making them all have a lovely dinner when one or two (freewill on) would jump up and run outside to go hug a Sim passing the house and or go up three flights off stairs to a third or fourth level to sit on a bed?
I'm sorry no, TS4 does not give the player more control. What it is infamous about is it never presents the player with any life simulation situations like TS2 or even TS3 did.
It's not a life simulator because we all know stuff happens in life we were not expecting...and in real life we have to deal with it. TS4 has very little of this type of life simulation.
TS4 is a glorified dress up game, where you play out an avatar and hope your evil, mean, monster Sim doesn't want to hug their arch enemy. Or where the cheating spouse or partner (if not married) can get away with making the other Sim a doormat. It's almost like the wife saying, 'oh, your girlfriend is so lovely, I hope she likes me, too, and we become friends.'
It's really nothing more than a way to skill, level up, and gain a goal and then drop all that and start another when a new pack comes out. TS4 Sims don't even Know or Care they filled any aspiration and you know what they don't even talk about them or if they ever did gain one, they don't even mention it to other Sims...life simulator is a joke when it comes to TS4.
And most of the things that people talk about in TS4 is imagined. None of it actually happened, TS2 can rest assured that yes, someone did cheat and someone is mad for weeks and someone does know about it, and someone did go punch somebody over it. TS4 is like a stage where players take screen shots and pretend any of this even happened. That is not the only way to play but it is also a fact Sims in TS4 don't even have a thought bubble about anyone else on their minds..because they don't have one.
I don't have to fill aspirations in TS2, I haven't done that part in years. They dance to my tune. TS4 doesn't even care if the Sim nor does the Sim care if you fill any of their own wants and wishes or dreams. They don't have enough AI to even know they are just being pushed around by a player. In TS2 Sims are miserable for a time if they don't fill an aspiration (it's their life not yours) or go to college and or get an A or whatever it might be. Or get married, have grandkids or whatever. The player doesn't have to do any of this but the Sim is very aware you didn't do it. In TS4 Sims are like oh, there is a cup on the table, I'm very happy.
ETA: But I was in control, I chose what they would care about when I built them in Bodyshop (looks) and in CAS (attributes to personality). So, I had all the control of what they would feel if I didn't do any of it...that is player control. Whether I fill or live up to any of what I chose, I chose what those things would be to bother them or make them happy so I had control from the date of creation of them.
I don't pllay it as a level up type game either though.. in fact, when I play sims 4 I immediatly cheat needs to stay full, cheat up their career to the level I want, turn off whims, etc. Those things don't interest me. I just like to watch them spend time together, building sand castles, tucking in the kids, playing with friends, stuff like that.
I like my sims to be happy at all times, and don't like it that in sims 2 that if they fight, then they stay angry, I want them to quickly make up and be happy again (though I prefer not to let them fight usually, I aim for a zero drama game). I like my sims to tell stories I write, but happy ones. The nice scenes only.
In my POV, the so-called The Sims 4 was never designed or meant to initially be a life simulator, therefore, had those elements implemented half-way through or late into the game in a very mediocre manner. Which the side effect became the exact opposite of what was advertised at some point in the beginning as 'Going back to the roots of The Sims' or something along those lines.
What The Sims (2000) ended up becoming is a people simulator that focuses on the autonomous actions and behaviors of Sims, that also learn to react to player input and choose autonomous actions based on that player input, while players also intervene to direct them in life. The same exact concept is used in TS3 but obviously way more improved upon and advanced. The Sims has always been meant to be played to its fullest potential, thus, is recommended to play with free-will on. Of course, TS (2000) development team did not force any playstyle onto the players and did give options to allow the freedom to play the way you want. Such as free-will could be turned on or off. On for those who like interactive dramas and can step in at any time and off for those who want to be in control and play the game without Sim autonomy.
"It took me a lot of time to figure out why people were complaining about how they found the other games gave them so much more. I had to watch a lot of gamer videos. Then I realized, they wanted it to all unfold *for* them and be much more like watching a drama play back, rather than truly making their own dramas."
For me yes and no. And like I stated earlier for TS, even in TS2/TS3, no playstyle is forced upon anyone concerning free-will on or off. The difference being with free-will on is the added dynamic stories of A.I. and in TS3 case, multiple A.I. across the whole open neighborhood instead of one lot or area at a time.
My playstyle is a mixture of both observing what the A.I. does and directing them according to what I learn about them and/or how I want to play them. So I do, at times, direct my Sims to create a different storyline of my own.
"I think it's cool that I can do what I want. But I also feel for the people who want to have the game make choices for them that they then have to cope with. We're back to the old TS2 "As played by" commercial tag: How do you play?"
This brings me back to the point of the false advertising about going back to the roots.
“Sometimes your role might seem like that of a theater director, coaxing out of your Sims a life performance. As with Shakespeare, there is a tragedy, there is comedy. There is the very stuff of existence, from the crumbs on the tables to the irritation that passes between people cooped up together in the house too long. In that sense, The Sims might seem to be a personal sitcom – whether it’s I Love Lucy or Friends, is up to you.
You can sit back and watch, but the Sim world is one where you can’t help but feel connected, and where you probably want to intervene. One of your Sims might get quite frustrated – perhaps because the house is a mess and she’s late for work. Maybe you could have somebody in the family tell her a good joke – hey, it works on us sometimes, doesn’t it? Feel free to experiment, just as you might do in your normal life. “ –From a part of The Sims Manual on page 4 under the title, The Sims: A World Unto Its Own
"The characters in the household do have their own ideas on how to conduct their lives, and do act on them, if you don't tell them what do do." -From the first sentence under Autonomy on page 42 of The Sims manual
^
This is how The Sims have always been for me and how I played and prefer to play. This is a huge part of the roots of The Sims. And why TS3 being the most improved and advanced is the life simulator that I mainly play. Also, the A.I. designer of TS3 did such an amazing job well done and I still can't get over how awesome and fascinating the A.I. is, despite he said it was a limited version of the game he did after, Versu.
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
Sims 2 gives you a choice of 6 aspirations. If what I want my Sim to do doesn't fall into any of those categories then I don't have the control I want. In Sims 4 I can decide to have a Sim who wants to be a master at playing the piano. I give them traits to boost this and make them play the piano. Eventually it becomes habit for the Sim and they will autonomously play the piano any chance they get. Once mastered I can have them pursue another goal or have them earn money from playing the piano by playing it at public venues and getting tips. Or I could have a Sim be a professional Snowboarder by having them snowboard until their skill is maxed and have them record POV videos and even coach other Sims in snowboarding. Since it doesn't matter to the Sim whether they complete an aspiration or not I am free to do exactly what I want and come up with my own goals for each Sim. That is creative freedom.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCaj9o4hycNSPy8U1Ip0OCFA/videos
The Sims 4 is a game. It was never intended to replicate real life. For me Sims 4 is an escape from having to deal with unexpected events that happen in real life. I can plan what will happen in the game and it usually goes exactly how I planned. I don't have some unexpected event ruin it all for me. I do not find things not going to plan fun at all. To have such a thing happen would be taking away player control.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCaj9o4hycNSPy8U1Ip0OCFA/videos
I agree. In the Sims 4 I can do exactly what I want to do. I don't feel the need to cheat the needs up because they are manageable for me. I can have them be well cared for, skill up in whatever I want them to, focus on their careers and do fun activities for enjoyment. Nothing interferes with my plans. I usually have everything go well for my Sims and don't really have them be mean to eachother. However when I'm recording and showing a social interaction that's been unlocked and it's a mean one I can have the Sim do it and then easily make up for it and not worry about the other Sim being mad with my Sim.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCaj9o4hycNSPy8U1Ip0OCFA/videos
Even when playing with "autonomy off" in previous Sims games didn't allow the amount of freedom to use your own imagination that TS4 does. There just weren't as many options for the Sims to do. There were many restrictions (such as only being able to have one aspiration and those with a very limited number of possibilities.)
You said it "is supposed to be a game and a game is supposed to provide challenge and do stuff on its own." But that isn't how *everyone* sees it. I certainly don't. I consider it a game and I like that I can make my *own* challenges. I don't need to have an AI do it for me. That's the nice thing about the Sims games (which I've played since SimCity the original on Amiga and through all the The Sims versions). You get to have your AI challenges and I don't have to have them. That's the way it should be. Options for both.
Do things really go your way in TS4? Are there never visitors who show up at your Sim house you wish didn't show up? c'mon, life is full of surprises and hardships. TS4 has it, too, but on a much smaller, neater, happier scale. You can't tell me just when you planned a perfect screenshot of something in TS4 another Sim you were not controlling didn't ever step into the picture and ruin it...well, maybe that might be true in TS4 since the camera options are so limited.
A townie never interrupted your Sim in TS4? Surely you have seen it, when you had plans for your Sim to just stand and talk to one Sim on a community lot that you were hoping to build up a relationship? TS4 does have 'life' in it, but not as disruptive as the other games, but it's not exactly true that the player is never interrupted from the fine laid plans they started out to do.
I'm convinced what people really mean is Motives are no longer a thing they have to deal with so much so they find the game more enjoyable not that there is nothing that ever happens to mess up the player's immediate plans because even TS4 throws in some monkey wrenches to throw the player off track, once in awhile. If someone is playing to escape life then all Sims would just stand and wait for your Sim to interact with it, but TS4 isn't built that way at all but overly social Sims who butt into everything. So, it's not exactly true to say TS4 is an escape or you would just be pushing around one Sim go here, go here, go here etc. and that be the end of it. If anyone is playing to escape 'life' then the Sims would not even have any emotions at all, and or interactions and or want or need anything...that is life, the problem to me is TS4 is too neat, pretty, and Sims are way too happy, so many hated the patch that added more emotion and time to a death in a household, so much so they went back to not caring at all just like when the game was first released.
@Sallycutecat It's meant to simulate life though. It's a life simulator. Life is unexpected.
I didn't read the article, I figured you pointed out anything that was important in what the person said in the article. lol Like The Sims series is repetitive...yes, and no. But what games aren't? We all know how each game genre works. And those things are expected to a great extent (systems and mechanics of gameplay) to be there in the type of genre we pick to play, so I would ask the person tell me what games aren't repetitive? None. ETA: You brought up how TS4 gives you more control of your Sim, you kind of stepped on your own reporting by changing the subject into a comparison thread between the games rather than sticking to how the article was talking about repetitiveness, and yes The Sims series has been repetitive to a great extent but what genre is never repetitive is the question. It's like a murder mystery or romance novel..we all know the setups.
ETA: I can relate with the article about some memory problems being more pronounced this past year in myself and many others in my family...that is a fact.
I will post what I found interesting about what they said about the series (no I don't find the series too repetitive as I stated above)
But this stands out to me of why I probably don't like TS4 as much...
Earlier versions of The Sims had an autonomous memory function, according to Marina DelGreco, a staff writer for Game Rant. But in The Sims 3, the system was buggy; it bloated file sizes and caused players’ saved progress to delete. So The Sims 4, released in 2014, does not automatically create memories. PC users can manually enter them, and Sims can temporarily feel feelings: happy, tense, flirty. But for the most part, a Sim is a hollow vessel, more like a machine than a living thing.
lol, TS4 Sims suffer from 'smooth brain'. I might have lost a few cells myself during this whole pandemic drama.
I have a feeling that you aren't aware of how many other people use the game. It's certainly not for "challenges." They use it to make a "utopia" because their real lives have been full of horrible things. They want better lives for their Sims than they have had. Many people have had enough of fights, divorce, fires, burglars and other things that AI in the game can do (and in the past version, without you wanting it to happen.) They want to use their imagination with their Sims, rather than having the game impose things to "deal with."
Shoot, Will Wright himself was apparently inspired to make The Sims as a “virtual dollhouse” after losing his home in a fire.
The fact that it's more than that to you is not a problem. But implying that it shouldn't be like that for others *is* a problem.
And to the person who asked if unexpected things like people coming to the door happen to me: of course. But unlike previous versions of the game, I can click on them and "send them home". It doesn't even make them dislike my Sim! I don't even mind Vlad coming (even though I dislike supernatural sims) because even with *him* I can tell him to go home without getting any consequences. I can even get the paparazzi to leave easily.
Basically, not everyone plays the same way. The game needs to have options so that those who want "challenges" can have them but the people who want a "dollhouse" can have that.
It was me who asked didn't visitors ever come to the door in TS4 and interrupt you. But could we always send them home at the release of the base? I don't think I had that option for the first three years I did play. I think I played all the packs through Parenthood then stopped. But I might have missed a change to what we can do when we click on other Sims. They are always watering down TS4 in my opinion so much so that yes, you have just stated it in a way, when you said many people have had enough (older games) of the fights, divorces, fires, burglars and other AI things...I guess that's ok, but I'm not really into just playing a Happyville game because I can't wrap my mind around 'success' if there is never any struggle to get there...or interruption to perhaps play the game in a different direction.
Anyway, I did finally read the article and yeah, I think the person said it correctly these Sims are more like robots than a living thing, an empty hollow shale and or what people term 'smooth brain' these days.
With that out of the way, I don't find the game repetitive. I'm a story player and the same task to me feels different depending on what sims I have them do. Two rivals going up the slopes to ski will feel different than a happy family, despite me clicking the exact same sequence of pie menu strings. It's all in my head and when the game slaps a sentiment on my sims, that is already too much for me. The game doesn't know my sims, its job is to simulate the weather, the workplace performance, basically everything physical in the outside world.
For this reason Sims 4 works for me. (Sims 2 still makes me feel being in control more than Sims 4, despite the wants/fears system that is very easily cheesed by abusing dates.) However, as you already said, if one wants to plunge into a dynamic world to adventure in, then Sims 4 comes across as bland and limited. There's no consistency in sims actions, they only live in the moment, governed by their current emotional state. I can see how that hit home with the article's author, seeing how trapped and disconnected from the "real" world she feels.
I played a (indefinitely on hold) legacy on the side where I don't allow a story (otherwise I'd get distracted from the legacy goals and never finish that playthrough). After four generations of grinding skills and aspirations I still wouldn't call the game repetitive, but certainly not challenging. The "challenge" of Sims 4 is not surviving, but striving in the most efficient way. In that it compares to browser or idle games: you are never in danger of "losing", the only question is how far you progress in an hour.