Stairs again... «123...Next Go

SailorCeti

Alright, I remember being able to do this before in Sims 4, but for some reason, it isn't working now. Consider the following...

This is the third floor in a three-floor sample building. The balcony was easy because I could make a whole room from the railing, then delete the floor. But...


This is the second floor in the same three-floor sample building. I cannot delete the floor because I cannot draw a complete room with the railing. If I do, the stairs to the third floor disappear. If I delete this section first, I cannot place the third-floor stairs because the railing is in the way. If I delete the one railing required, the floor reappears.


How would I go about solving this problem? The building is an example, of course, and not my actual build. If you need more information, let me know. I know there's a way to do this, or there used to be, at least, because I've done it before. However, those builds are now broken too.

Thanks in advance for any insight or solution.

DeanXeL

I can do this, but it is very, very glitchy... It is the same trick as with the roof clippin... i will see later today if I can fine-tune it with stairs and fences so it is not so glitchy. https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/17798848/#Comment_17798848

DeanXeL

The removing of the ceiling downstairs is anyway a major part of the issue often, since it decides not always to show the floor, but the ceiling of the floor below

edit: I actually went ahead and tried it:
1) draw a room downstairs and remove the ceiling, remove walls and put stairs
2) draw balcony and remove floor, remove part where stairs will be
3) put stairs (I had to add a room on the next floor to help me place them since I was missing the ceiling lol) I did remove that room afterwards

I think because of the fence and the stairs surrounding the entire room, this one is not as glitchy, I tried it, it didn't revert to original state when restarting the game.

SailorCeti

Hm. I'll give that a try tomorrow, but if I'm not mistaken, that's exactly how I went about it. I staged everything using flat squares, outside, then moved them in. Maybe that step is doing something. I'll update you tomorrow. Did you test it to see if sims would go both up and down?

DeanXeL

They go up and down, no problems...
I did not 'remove' the fence using b+ctrl though, I right clicked it, removed the entire side wall (hence, keeping the 'room') and then afterwards replaced the one missing piece of fence in the corner, maybe that helps?

eufl

I usually build many structures by using the room tool, the one without walls, that gives you a 3x3 room. In case of staircases I build the stairways, where they shall be, then I look for the room, I wanted to be cut out, and recreate this room with the room tool outside of the house. I do this for every floor in the house then, and store all those rooms on the outside. Then take all the stairs, I have placed, and put them out too, they will also be stored on the outside.
If I build a basement, and the house has a foundation, I use the platform tool to recreate the room, that needs to be cut out in the first ffloor/ground floor. Here the difference to the other rooms is, that I then will place it, and sink the platform intonthe ground, until it reaches the deepest possible state (that depends on the height of the foundation). Then I paint the sides of that minus platform to my likes, and place the first stairway from the basement, so that it can cut through the ceiling.
Now I copy all the fake rooms, that I stored on the outside of the house at the positions, the opened ceilings shall be. I lace them and cut the floor out. I then look, iff any friezes from the outside like to show up on the cut out places, and delete them one by one. I place the stairs starting with the lowest one, now in the other direction thatn the one from the basement - from the higher floor to the lower, until all stairs are placed. Afterwards I place fences and railings and add - again one by one - the wall panels from the second friezes menu to cover up the borders of the open space.
This sounds more complicated, than it is but it works for me. Only important thing is, to never build anything in this space afterwards again. A finished staircase is a finished staircase. If you change anything there, it can mess up the whole thing, and you possibly have to rebuild the whole thingie again. That is, why I copy the prepared fake rooms to their spaces, where they should be. I can easily do that as often, as I need to in case, I mess things up.

I´ve made a picture tutorial for this, and as soon, as I am allowed to show pictures in the forums, I will show this tutorial here too.

DeanXeL

@eufl sounds more complicated than it has to be in this case I think ^_^ maybe the pictures help. The way I did it, you can still change the shape of the balcony afterwards if you so desire, i tried that. It will only add floor to the small part you separated (let's say you cut off a corner to make the balcony have diagonal corners). it will not add wall to the part that's integrated with the staircase and has no floor.

Xinqun

If the fence gets in the way of the foot of the stair, use a spandrel instead. That's what I always do.

If you find yourself removing a first-storey ceiling instead of a second-storey floor, that means that your second-storey room has been exploded -- it does not actually exist anymore. Some people are okay with this; some are not.

DeanXeL

Xinqun wrote: »

If the fence gets in the way of the foot of the stair, use a spandrel instead. That's what I always do.

If you find yourself removing a first-storey ceiling instead of a second-storey floor, that means that your second-storey room has been exploded -- it does not actually exist anymore. Some people are okay with this; some are not.

Lol exploded room, never heard that before . I guess you kind of have to if you don't want walls/fences all around it, completely enclosing the staircase and hence, not being able to place the stairs. Guess you might indeed need the spandrels for that. However, I never had any trouble with this, probably cause I only have basegame, so no way to test what happens when seasons change and all that

eufl

I think, the whole room concept centered building is very bugged, and there are a few solutions to get around that. The use of spandrels, @Xinqun , is indeed a good idea, I need to check that out.
@DeanXeL , maybe that is a difference then, I have all addons. And I am making heavy use of friezes and trims, and cause cutting out the floor does have an impact of how a room is recognized by the game, I usually have to fight against friezes on the inside walls, where my staircases are. The last big staircase - I needed roundabout three hours to get it to my likes. The rest of the house was easily done but a double staircase, that is only partially walled, in the entrance area with an open ceiling, combined with stairways into the attic and into the basement: I think, I understand, what Xinqun meant with the word "exploded" here...
That house was then the reason for me to document every single step there. And like I wrote, my description sounds much more complicated than the process actually is.

DeanXeL

@eufl the trims only cut inside alongside the opening, not the outer wall, so you can shift + sledgehammer them along the inner walls if you like, they will only disappear there then, not on the outside. I did this below (used both a frieze and a trim outside)



I think weather might be a bigger issue though, probably freezing in the non-room hallway with snow on the railing and everything lol. Love basegame?....

Also, friezes do appear on the inside of the outer wall and do pose an issue. Spandrels would not be a solution either, as they get lowered because the friezes are present x.X. I am starting to see why you decided on your workaround...

eufl

@DeanXeL , thanks, I kknow that, and I use that a lot. But it´s strange though, cause it says, that the rooms isn´t anymore a room but only something, that looks like one. And this bothers me. And I think, that is, what Xinqun meant with the word "exploded".
A staircase shouldn´t kill a room. And aside from the fact, that I can indeed destroy the friezes that way, it can happen, that there are some, that are really hard to recognize, and then they get in the way, if you want to place something else. And you search and search for the reason, and you can´t find it.
Also it bothers me, if it comes to wallpapers, as they also need to be placed as single ones, after opening a ceiling. I mean, I have to live with those problems but I don´t like them. Why this room tool, if it doesn´t work like it should? It was so much easier to build in the older games of this series, and the few advantages, Sims 4 really makes, are mixed up with bugs everywhere. That is too sad, cause I really like things like that platform tool, that is so useful, or what we can do with roofs nowadays.

SailorCeti

I’m glad this conversation is still going. Hopefully more will give their input and EA might finally address these issues. This entire mess is one reason I really want proper 2x2 stackable circular stairs. They come with banisters and you don’t have to worry about knocking floor tiles out. Either way, this needs to be addressed.

DeanXeL

Oh man, I do miss the original Sims where you could just like ctrl + drag a floor and have that piece disappear xD
I get that they need the rooms to define inside/outside for weather and whatnot, but I mean, a room does not even seem to count as an inside room anymore (roof clipping starts happening) when you add a fence that touches the wall or a platform or a room with half walls or no walls.... I wish we could just define our own rooms as inside or outside ... (I mean, bet we would all love to see a fenced deck where it remains 21°C even if it is freezing outside )

DeanXeL

Edit: I found a way easier workaround, posted it later, original post in spoiler

Also, I gave this thing a long think (about what does and does not constitute a room and stuff) and I came up with this solution, thanx @eufl for mentioning the platforms! (edit: it didn't work with the people going up and down, so below is the adapted (functional!) version. Both floors are accessible and there are no exploded rooms, but the workaround is extensive...

1) Draw your "cutout area" on the first floor in fence and right click + delete the floor (this area has to be at least 5 blocks wide for it to work!) Afterwards, you can shorten the end with the upper staircase if you so desire.

2) Draw a tiny added fence area to the place where you want the stairs to the next level to attach to. Also add 2 platforms, 1 of 1 block next to the fenced area and one of 3 blocks where your downstairs stairs will come up. (There has to be at leats one open space in between, hence 5 blocks minimum) -> You need this 3 block platform for functionality! And if you don't have the open space in between, you can never get rid of the one block platform under the upper staircase

3) Remove the fence between the platform and normal floor and lower both platforms to normal floor height, then add both staircases (the 3 block wide platform will disappear due to the staircase placement.

4) Remove the fencing around the normal floor (right click, remove fence)
5) Remove the platform by DRAGGING THE OPEN SPACE WALL OVER IT (this step is important to execute like this!)

6) I had to click the '3 block platform room' under the lower staircase and, on the floor above it, right click it to 'build ceiling' for the second staircase to be able to open the ceiling up properly. Maybe this will not be the case when a room is present there, but just in case I added the step here.

6) Final result: look at your pretty inside room/balcony/double staircase hallway This one is fully editable as far as I have tested too. At this point, if you so desire, you can move the side of the upper staircase in 1 block (staircase side first, then fence and place the staircase inwards. It still works and still is a separate room.

After refreshing (going to world overview and back), the platform 'below' the lower staircase will have integrated with the overal floor and no longer be a separate room. This does not influence functionality.



friezes and trims are still a bit finicky though, unless you put the friezes all the way around the building, trims are a bit more buggy...

SailorCeti

This the problem. We shouldn’t have to go to such lengths to make something work. It just needs a real fix by EA. The square platform is how I eventually got around the issue as well, but it’s too convoluted.

Here’s an idea EA: make stairs register as a room on its own, fully sizable so we can just drop one in and go.

eufl

@DeanXeL , oh yeah, that is an idea indeed! But my way does the same job without any fences. As soon, as I am allowed to do, I will show my pictures. I think, that makes things more clear.

DeanXeL

@eufl, I used the fences since Metaphasic specifically wanted a fenced balcony. However, I have noticesd that-in general- whenever a floorless room and a floored room, without walls in between touch, they merge either immediately or whenever I restart the game. So I haven't made that work yet. I am however super curious as to your method, maybe it will allow me to do something I have been meaning to try for a while now, I can't completely visualize your method right now

orenjiAi

Hi @Metaphasic! I think that “L-shaped floor” under the second floor (first floor if you’re from the UK) is actually the lower floor’s ceiling. Assuming that you’ve already done the “workaround for the fence glitch”, I believe that removing the ceilings of the lower floor should get rid of those.

SailorCeti

I’m sure. Every time I think I have it worked around, something else rises. When something does work, I come back to the game to a broken build. I’m done until they do something about indoor fencing, open space around stairs, and inconsistent roof clipping. Every single one of my builds is on hold.

DeanXeL

@orenjiAi hence my first 'easy' solution of removing the ceiling.. it is how I do it with basegame only.

However, Xinqun made the good remark that the ceiling of the lower floor only shows up if you have completely 'exploded' (deleted, un-roomed) the room you are working with. This means the room where the stairs are in will not react as a room to weather, friezes, trims and all those fun things. Hence the more complicated workarounds needed if you wish to keep the space a proper room... That's why the frustration with the room based building popped up here too

orenjiAi

@DeanXeL Yep. That is how I’ve always done it too! 1) Make the floor cutouts a room, 2) remove their floors, 3) “explode” the room by removing the fences, 4) and then building the stairs from top floor to bottom. Removing the lower room’s ceiling will usually get rid of the gray squares easily as you’ve said. Sometimes I also use Xinqun’s spandrel technique too. Guess I should’ve backread before making my comment. 😅

I am actually not aware (til now) of the current handrail/fence stair bug/glitch because I’ve never constructed my builds that way. I am used to Build-Buy from TS2 and TS3 and I always thought we were supposed to delete the handrails first before plopping down the stairs. Lol

Oh yeah, I have Seasons and I don’t notice my sims getting cold or hot when they are in the exploded rooms (which are usually just limited to the stairs and their landings or corridors). But it’s because I put a room on the topmost opening—not just a roof—to seal in the exploded rooms. I found that sealing the top still counts any exploded rooms under it as being inside and your Sims should be safe from the elements. You can easily test a room even without having Seasons by looking at the lighting (if it’s bluish or the lights auto-turn on at night, then it’s outside).

You are right in the friezes and trims being problematic with the exploded rooms though. But I just use the shift-click trick and paint the walls one panel at a time for those instances.

eufl

@orenjiAi , this sounds very similar to, what I do. I´m also coming from TS2 and TS3, and sometimes it was a really nard way to get familiar with the building system in TS4, especially this room based stuff. I was used to erect walls, not rooms. ut if it weren´t that bugged, I indeed think, that thinking in terms of rooms isn´t that bad. And like you wrote: Closing the ceiling with a roof always prevents the "exloded" room from being not recognized as part of the inside of a building.

SailorCeti

Replied to wrong thread. Deleted.

eufl

@Metaphasic , there is no need for elevators, only sometimes one needs to be very, veeery patient... I needed roundbaout 3 hours for this staircase, cause of the phenomen, that a few people here descibed as "exploded room". One time I´ve got invisible friezes inside, then I lost the colour of the wall through the foundation, then a stairway won´t be placeable anymore... Such things are annoying, and it´s only, cause this game is so buggy.

But hey, we all know that, and mostly everything can be solved, simply by doing it again and again. And leaving a lot and reloading it sometimes solves such issues as well. Don´t ask me why, but it does.

Here a few pictures of that particular house and it´s staircase (it´s still work in progress):



And the stairs from the attic to the basement:



The ground floor area:


It´s possible to see, that there is a small glitch with the walls of the stairs, that lead to the basement, a small white stripe, and I can´t avoid this showing up. That´s annoying but it´s a minor issue in my humble view. And on the first picture you can see parts of my prepared "rooms" and "platforms", that I then later used to create the single rooms for the open spaces and the partially walled stairs in the ground floor area.

Btw I am not sure, what to do with that building. It´s part of a quarter, where I built a few mostly Early French inspired mansions. But it is so huge, and the lot is small in size compared to that building. I thought about making a museum or an art gallery but at the moment the whole thing is abandoned.

SailorCeti

eufl wrote: »

@Metaphasic , there is no need for elevators, only sometimes one needs to be very, veeery patient... I needed roundbaout 3 hours for this staircase, cause of the phenomen, that a few people here descibed as "exploded room". One time I´ve got invisible friezes inside, then I lost the colour of the wall through the foundation, then a stairway won´t be placeable anymore... Such things are annoying, and it´s only, cause this game is so buggy.

"3 hours" and "cause this game is so buggy."

The above snippets are my point. Three hours just to get some stairs working right isn't worth my time.