Also development is difficult but they have the money and the staff to do it. (and if they don't it's their fault, they should have it) .
If the development was an easy task you would develop your own game a long time ago.
Money and staff never made the development easier . More people = more mistakes
I think the OP meant they aren't listening to the general public not specific people.
I doubt these players spent $4000 in The Sims franchise.
As Lyndsay told these features are under development but you aren't listening.
@LeGardePourpre 6 years under development? haha it's funny you actually believe this.
You mean 36 packs and a ton of game updates were nothing ???
It's more than 20 packs for TS3 and 17 packs for TS2 in 5 years.
Imagine your boss telling you that you haven't done anything for the past 6 years.
Sometimes people forget the value of hard work.
@LeGardePourpre The packs should be a seperate thing. They released a 🐸🐸🐸🐸 game and said they would fix it. How much time did it take them to make toddlers, 2 years? Two years for one lifestage? Obviously they are not investing enough in fixing the base game I bought for 65$ but instead decide to make packs in order to make more money.
The packs? Broken. Fixes? None. I still paid for those packs though thinking they would work.
A company that made over a BILLION dollars from a game saying they don't have enough budget, staff or time is a LIE.
I agree. Even the Gurus don't seem to be listening to us...we keep complaining about stuff,but it seems like EA and the Gurus are covering heir ears and saying "We're going to keep a glitchy,buggy,shallow game that's on a dying game engine going on for many more years!"
I think both EA and the Gurus need to stop pretending everything's okay and they need to stop turning out packs that are only adding to the problem of a dying game engine.They either need to take time to overhaul the game engine or they need to pull the plug on Sims 4 and work on giving us Sims 5.
As for me,I'm waiting to see what Paralives and the people at Paradox games will come up with. If they come up with much better games than Sims 4,I'll be sure to buy those games.
I just read that interview again from PCGames talking to Rod Humble, at Paradox Tectonics and I am now getting excited for it because the interviewer asked:
When might we hear more?
I’ve been told to officially say ‘soon’. It’s not going to be years down the road, so: soon.
After reading this, I am actually, for the first time in a while, looking forward to seeing what they will come up with - thanks for sharing this!!:
“Our aim with Paradox Tectonic is to create open, fun, beautiful games which respect the players’ intelligence and enables their creativity, freedom, emotion, and sharing,” said Rod Humble, Studio Head at Paradox Tectonic. “Our studio structure is using best practices for modern development: a flat organization in a low-friction environment with a team of highly experienced domain experts. It’s a privilege to be reunited with so many world-class colleagues from so many triple-A projects, and the team and I are delighted to join Paradox and be part of driving the company’s next cycle of growth. Our shared values of quality and putting the customer first made Paradox the perfect fit for us.”
Everybody hated Rod Humble when the Sims 3 came out. It came out very glitchy and he was in charge then. I expect it'll be the same when he brings out his new game, whatever it is.
I paid them to do the job. The job is not done right, it's bugged. I can't tell to my clients: "ey, don't you like my job? Then do it yourself and learn something new". Lol.
For example
You hire a maid to do housework but she doesn't do the job. Do you paid the service until the job is done ?
I prefer to do it by myself instead of paying somebody else who won't do it.
Do you mean like the maid in TS4 that hasn't worked correctly since day one and half the time wouldn't even show up? Yeah, you fire those, but in TS4's case you might get two the next day. Because the firing doesn't even work in TS4 half the time. Or like when you try to get rid of a butler in TS4 you might have two the next day. Then, I agree, do it yourself, in real life and in TS4, because TS4 is so clean there wasn't even really need to have maid. It's like what were they going to clean up anyway, at the time they finally added them. Should have been some grunge since day one. And the tuning was always wrong.
ETA: And there really was no point in them since the player has it so easy peasy and can just drag stuff to a paying trash can...so, maids and butlers were just added fluff...so people could play with 'going through the motions'. That is actually a large problem with TS4 it only goes through the motions, since players could solve this themselves (dirt) without any maid or butler. What more fluff does this game need, when we just go through the motions.
ROM is another example of just going through the motions (fluff no depth) when players can already get those 'potions' in the base game. Why bother with actual playing it out when I can just drag it out of some extra reward list. Been there done it. They have been doing this sort of thing over and over, hard work? maybe, but they already had the wheel and just slapped on an animation when there really is no need since players already could get that stuff from reward lists for filling whims. ROM is merely going through motions to pretend they added anything new. There are dozen more examples, sorry, no, We don't see those repeats in some of the older games. And if those teams could do such a deep game for older games it makes me wonder why these teams can't. or won't or don't have time, Budget and time contraints have been a problem since the day Will Wright sold his company to EA and they became The Sims. Nobody was saying if you can do it better, go build your own game....why does anyone defend TS4 with such passion when the same company (maybe not all the same people) have done excellent work before but not now with their repeat and repeat content in the very same iteration. Players are right when they see the same stuff over and over in TS4, we might expect a repeat of someting from one iteration to the next, but dang, not in the same title, over and over.
Value of hard work, I saw the TS4 Sims could sit by a pool with their legs in the water, yes, that was innovative, and hard I have no doubt. I had been begging for something like that for many,many years, and also sit down with phone. Immersion matters so much in a life simulator. However, what has come out since the base that is mind blowing innovation? Nothing. Lot triats? No, because in older games if Sims hated the floor they were miserable, that bamboo flooring in TS2 comes to mind they all hate it, but the player doesn't see a lot trait they can click...but those things are there already. Environment scores, no, been there done it. Those already exists in the older games, so just slapping a name on something and extending it into a world enviornment (in a closed world system with only one active lot) is still only a lot enviornment that existed before. Also, NAPs not much innovation there either, since Seasons since TS2 has always affected all lots and all worlds etc. Already invented. It's a repeat of what is already possible, from way back and only going through motions since a player can slap a name on something. But the programming was always there just diverted to world (one lot) enviornment and pushing Sims to do certain things in a 'world' enviornment is no different than making them all use the stereo or crowd around the barista.
People may not like my feedback because I am harder to please, I am direct and blunt. But I'm right.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I agree. Even the Gurus don't seem to be listening to us...we keep complaining about stuff,but it seems like EA and the Gurus are covering heir ears and saying "We're going to keep a glitchy,buggy,shallow game that's on a dying game engine going on for many more years!"
I think both EA and the Gurus need to stop pretending everything's okay and they need to stop turning out packs that are only adding to the problem of a dying game engine.They either need to take time to overhaul the game engine or they need to pull the plug on Sims 4 and work on giving us Sims 5.
As for me,I'm waiting to see what Paralives and the people at Paradox games will come up with. If they come up with much better games than Sims 4,I'll be sure to buy those games.
I just read that interview again from PCGames talking to Rod Humble, at Paradox Tectonics and I am now getting excited for it because the interviewer asked:
When might we hear more?
I’ve been told to officially say ‘soon’. It’s not going to be years down the road, so: soon.
After reading this, I am actually, for the first time in a while, looking forward to seeing what they will come up with - thanks for sharing this!!:
“Our aim with Paradox Tectonic is to create open, fun, beautiful games which respect the players’ intelligence and enables their creativity, freedom, emotion, and sharing,” said Rod Humble, Studio Head at Paradox Tectonic. “Our studio structure is using best practices for modern development: a flat organization in a low-friction environment with a team of highly experienced domain experts. It’s a privilege to be reunited with so many world-class colleagues from so many triple-A projects, and the team and I are delighted to join Paradox and be part of driving the company’s next cycle of growth. Our shared values of quality and putting the customer first made Paradox the perfect fit for us.”
Everybody hated Rod Humble when the Sims 3 came out. It came out very glitchy and he was in charge then. I expect it'll be the same when he brings out his new game, whatever it is.
That is an archive thread so don't add to it. It comes from 2010!
@Simburian The Sims 3 actually got very much praise when it came out. I had issues but it was as badly received as The Sims 4 at launch
I had many issues with Sims3 myself and ranted on the Forum a bit then. It seems to me that Rod Humble was more into the role playing genre that Simmers feared back then than sandbox then so any game he brings out might be like a Batuu type one. That's if he hasn't learned from the later complaints about Sims 4. You can hope.
He appears to have hopped around a lot in his gaming career working on various things but not staying too long.
Simmers don't seem to change much though do they? It was the same back then as it is now. Always complaining!
I agree. Even the Gurus don't seem to be listening to us...we keep complaining about stuff,but it seems like EA and the Gurus are covering heir ears and saying "We're going to keep a glitchy,buggy,shallow game that's on a dying game engine going on for many more years!"
I think both EA and the Gurus need to stop pretending everything's okay and they need to stop turning out packs that are only adding to the problem of a dying game engine.They either need to take time to overhaul the game engine or they need to pull the plug on Sims 4 and work on giving us Sims 5.
As for me,I'm waiting to see what Paralives and the people at Paradox games will come up with. If they come up with much better games than Sims 4,I'll be sure to buy those games.
I just read that interview again from PCGames talking to Rod Humble, at Paradox Tectonics and I am now getting excited for it because the interviewer asked:
When might we hear more?
I’ve been told to officially say ‘soon’. It’s not going to be years down the road, so: soon.
After reading this, I am actually, for the first time in a while, looking forward to seeing what they will come up with - thanks for sharing this!!:
“Our aim with Paradox Tectonic is to create open, fun, beautiful games which respect the players’ intelligence and enables their creativity, freedom, emotion, and sharing,” said Rod Humble, Studio Head at Paradox Tectonic. “Our studio structure is using best practices for modern development: a flat organization in a low-friction environment with a team of highly experienced domain experts. It’s a privilege to be reunited with so many world-class colleagues from so many triple-A projects, and the team and I are delighted to join Paradox and be part of driving the company’s next cycle of growth. Our shared values of quality and putting the customer first made Paradox the perfect fit for us.”
Everybody hated Rod Humble when the Sims 3 came out. It came out very glitchy and he was in charge then. I expect it'll be the same when he brings out his new game, whatever it is.
That is an archive thread so don't add to it. It comes from 2010!
@Simburian The Sims 3 actually got very much praise when it came out. I had issues but it was as badly received as The Sims 4 at launch
I had many issues with Sims3 myself and ranted on the Forum a bit then. It seems to me that Rod Humble was more into the role playing genre that Simmers feared back then than sandbox then so any game he brings out might be like a Batuu type one. That's if he hasn't learned from the later complaints about Sims 4. You can hope.
He appears to have hopped around a lot in his gaming career working on various things but not staying too long.
Simmers don't seem to change much though do they? It was the same back then as it is now. Always complaining!
@Simburian I just think it's naive to assume that people complain about the Sims 4 because they "like to complain". That's not taking people seriously.
The Sims 4 just got a looooot more hate than the previous and keeps getting it because it is a lackluster game. It's not just people being 🐸🐸🐸🐸.
No matter if Rod Humble was involved or not the Sims 3 still is more sandbox-like than the Sims 4.
Also development is difficult but they have the money and the staff to do it. (and if they don't it's their fault, they should have it) .
If the development was an easy task you would develop your own game a long time ago.
Money and staff never made the development easier . More people = more mistakes
I think the OP meant they aren't listening to the general public not specific people.
I doubt these players spent $4000 in The Sims franchise.
As Lyndsay told these features are under development but you aren't listening.
@LeGardePourpre 6 years under development? haha it's funny you actually believe this.
You mean 36 packs and a ton of game updates were nothing ???
It's more than 20 packs for TS3 and 17 packs for TS2 in 5 years.
Imagine your boss telling you that you haven't done anything for the past 6 years.
Sometimes people forget the value of hard work.
for some they feel just because EA/Maxis made 20 more packs than an previous version does not necessarily mean those packs was robust than previous versions as I feel most of the packs from previous versions were better than what EA/Maxis is offering now. Of course EA/Maxis may be producing more packs for Sims 4 because it is still being produced whereas Sims 2 and 3 are out of development. For me EA/Maxis took the easy way out by not tweaking or fixing what they develop and why should someone sympathize with companies that produces gimped packs that is less technical than the packs from an previous version so they get an sorry Charlie from me. Where are the true features in Sims 4? they do not exist in this game. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine and EA/Maxis failed me as an customer by selling gimped packs because they are gimped themselves because they do not want to make an cutting edge simulation as they do not want ruffle any feathers and that is my opinion. Made 36 packs and an ton of features and not one of them bring the "A" game
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Simmers don't seem to change much though do they? It was the same back then as it is now. Always complaining!
Large numbers of customers complaints are a glaring sign a company isn't doing something right. It isn't just The Sims, it's the way of the world. Smart companies welcome complaints and use them as a guidepost for ways they can improve.
Would you continue to eat at a restaurant that is known for rude waiters and food poisoning? You wouldn't, because customer complaints would put a bad restaurant out of business unless they clean up their act. For a game company it is a slower bleed, slowly unhappy customers stop believing in them, stop buying their game, find a better alternative and bring their friends with them. The Sims is lucky that their fans care enough to sick around and speak their mind, if we complainers abandoned ship instead perhaps they would not be able to afford to continue the series, seeing as they make millions off the game now, but can't afford to give use new animations and such.
Simmers don't seem to change much though do they? It was the same back then as it is now. Always complaining!
Large numbers of customers complaints are a glaring sign a company isn't doing something right. It isn't just The Sims, it's the way of the world. Smart companies welcome complaints and use them as a guidepost for ways they can improve.
Would you continue to eat at a restaurant that is known for rude waiters and food poisoning? You wouldn't, because customer complaints would put a bad restaurant out of business unless they clean up their act. For a game company it is a slower bleed, slowly unhappy customers stop believing in them, stop buying their game, find a better alternative and bring their friends with them. The Sims is lucky that their fans care enough to sick around and speak their mind, if we complainers abandoned ship instead perhaps they would not be able to afford to continue the series, seeing as they make millions off the game now, but can't afford to give use new animations and such.
I feel like a good reason people stick around is because there's no other alternative. If there were other Life Simulation games, similar in style as The Sims (as in characters or avatars that look more like RL people instead of playing cartoon animals like animal crossing) then a lot of people probably would NOT be sticking around.
But currently EA has the monopoly on Life Simulation games and since people (like me) who only play this genre of game are at their mercy we either have to accept what the franchise has turned into, go back to earlier iterations, or just completely stop playing.
And the sad thing is ..... EA knows this. That's why they CAN get away with peicemilling out the packs. Watering them down while only offering a small portion of gameplay objects and shoving out more, more, more content but it taking 3-4 packs to be the equivalent of what was once offered in earlier iterations packs.
I'm really confused, it's almost like their budget it ridiculously smaller than what they were allotted in the past. If they were shoving out packs every month, I might be able to understand the concept of smaller budget and less quality packs, but they're not .... it still takes them the same amount of time.
I feel like a good reason people stick around is because there's no other alternative.
This is exactly what happened with Sim City 2013. After the complete and utter fiasco of that title people were looking for alternatives and came to the same conclusion... the titles available were either the older versions of the same series or a few, also older, but worse competitors like Cities XL. But then just a few months later Cities Skylines exploded on the scene and part of that explosion was that people were still actively looking for an alternative and the timing of the release was very lucky.
How much time did it take them to make toddlers, 2 years? Two years for one lifestage?
Don't forget in 2017 EP04 Cats and Dogs was released.
New interactions, new CAS content, new AI, new traits, new skills, ... Pets and Toddler are more of work than creating Vampires.
I feel like a good reason people stick around is because there's no other alternative. If there were other Life Simulation games, similar in style as The Sims (as in characters or avatars that look more like RL people instead of playing cartoon animals like animal crossing) then a lot of people probably would NOT be sticking around.
But currently EA has the monopoly on Life Simulation games and since people (like me) who only play this genre of game are at their mercy we either have to accept what the franchise has turned into, go back to earlier iterations, or just completely stop playing.
And the sad thing is ..... EA knows this. That's why they CAN get away with peicemilling out the packs. Watering them down while only offering a small portion of gameplay objects and shoving out more, more, more content but it taking 3-4 packs to be the equivalent of what was once offered in earlier iterations packs.
I'm really confused, it's almost like their budget it ridiculously smaller than what they were allotted in the past. If they were shoving out packs every month, I might be able to understand the concept of smaller budget and less quality packs, but they're not .... it still takes them the same amount of time.
Yes, I agree. I am lucky, because I play alot of different games, so when I feel frustrated with Sims 4 it is easier for me to step away, but I still feel sad that I have spent so much on this game, but still get bored so quickly. I want to buy stuff to improve Sims 4, but ECO was too buggy and Star Wars was meh in my opinion. So I skipped them both.
I feel like a good reason people stick around is because there's no other alternative.
This is exactly what happened with Sim City 2013. After the complete and utter fiasco of that title people were looking for alternatives and came to the same conclusion... the titles available were either the older versions of the same series or a few, also older, but worse competitors like Cities XL. But then just a few months later Cities Skylines exploded on the scene and part of that explosion was that people were still actively looking for an alternative and the timing of the release was very lucky.
I think about this alot. This has happened to other games I like too. Harvest Moon was replaced by Stardew Valley, a tiny independent game with old school graphics. Rollercoaster Tycoon was replaced by Planet Coaster. It happens, and to be honest I would jump ship pretty quickly if something better came along, because my loyalty to The Sims is hanging on a thread.
How much time did it take them to make toddlers, 2 years? Two years for one lifestage?
Don't forget in 2017 EP04 Cats and Dogs was released.
New interactions, new CAS content, new AI, new traits, new skills, ... Pets and Toddler are more of work than creating Vampires.
Still not the same thing. Toddlers, as much I, personally loathe them (and did in Sims 2 and 3 as well, I am simply not a kid person not even IRL) are an essential lifestage. What you are saying is admitting that they DID focus on the WRONG things.
@LeGardePourpre
No, it is not easy to develop games, but it isn't impossible, we're talking about EA, a rich company. They can hire the amount of people they need to make a good game. Other companies have managed to make well received games. It is also important to acknowledge that the Sims 4 isn't perfect and it's okay for people talk about what they don't like or want added.
You also said that EA is listening to you, but you aren't the only person playing TS4. You represent a minority of Sims 4 players, a lot of people feel as if they haven't been heard. A few years ago, the Sims 4 introduced toddlers, which was great, yes, they did listen back then, but what about now? Many people have been asking for the same things for a while now, but we aren't getting it. Babies have been a problem for a while and they have had time to fix it, 6 years. Also, saying "if you don't like a game then make one yourself" isn't a good argument. Some people may not have the time or money to do that. Also, we PAID for the Sims expecting a good life simulation game. I appreciate hard work and all, but they aren't working on things a majority of people want. The community has been very vocal about things they want but they aren't fixing/adding certain things.
They can work hard on a Star Wars pack that a lot of people feel is useless/dislike, but what will their hard work do for anyone if a lot of people don't even want it? Once again, glad that they're working hard but they should apply that energy towards other things, things a majority of the community wants. We have 35 packs but people want a better base game. If a house's foundation is shaky, it doesn't matter what you add on top of the house, the foundation will stay broken until someone fixes it (which shouldn't be modders).
Not everyone can get mods nor should they have to rely on them. Mods should not be necessary to get rid of bugs and add things that should already be in the game. From what I've seen, people are mainly upset with the base game and all of the bugs.
By the way, none if this was supposed to be rude or passive aggressive so if I came off that way, sorry, that was not my intent. I am also open-minded, so it is very possible for you to change my mind about these topics.
What you are saying is admitting that they DID focus on the WRONG things.
Of course it's not always what we could expect.
But I want to trust the studio until the end of TS4 because they are still able to improve this game.
I invested too much money in the game, I won't give up now.
If the conclusion is not satisfying and they miss this opportunity to prove us that they understand our expectations, there will be no reason to purchase TS5 because it will be the same story again.
I think it's very important to support them and explain them what is good, what is bad and why, encouraging them to do better. Keep on showing them the path to follow.
Insulting them and lowering them won't help us to obtain what we want, just it will demotivate them and make the game be worse.
Even if you paid an employee, he will be more motivate, efficient and cooperative if you're kind with him. (be kind but not blind)
What you are saying is admitting that they DID focus on the WRONG things.
Of course it's not always what we could expect.
But I want to trust the studio until the end of TS4 because they are still able to improve this game.
I invested too much money in the game, I won't give up now.
If the conclusion is not satisfying and they miss this opportunity to prove us that they understand our expectations, there will be no reason to purchase TS5 because it will be the same story again.
I think it's very important to support them and explain them what is good, what is bad and why, encouraging them to do better. Keep on showing them the path to follow.
Insulting them and lowering them won't help us to obtain what we want, just it will demotivate them and make the game be worse.
Even if you paid an employee, he will be more motivate, efficient and cooperative if you're kind with him.
I also think it's important to give constructive feedback, however, the game is six years old, and I know of plenty of feedback that was well written, explained point by point exactly what people had to say about TS4 Sims' personalitities. So much so, dozens and dozens of examples were given of why these Sims are all the same just different bodies. It really couldn't have been any clearer and even the biggest doubter could have seen exactly what the poster was saying, in any thread that discussed these Sims, without having to ask a question about what they had said or what they meant. But after six long years of explaning this stuff, nothing has ever been done about it, which we all know if we even read feedback this is the number one complaint about TS4. Every where. If after six years of 'trust' I think we might need to decide it's a little too late. (For some of us). Also, they have made over a billion on this version across all platforms, so no need to keep supporting in hopes they have enough money to build TS5 or any other game. They can do it right now, without anyone having to spend another dime on TS4, after being told if they don't support it there might not be a TS5, well, they have the money, so no need to waste anymore.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
They had plenty of money to develop The Sims 4 thanks to TS3 Store ($25 MM revenue each year).
I'm sure they collected less money now than 2013. TS4 packs are cheaper than TS3, a lot of discounts, build-a-bundle and free basegame offer.
As you said, it's not a matter of money but of choices.
As long as they do the wrong choices like RoM, there is no way TS5 be a good game.
They had plenty of money to develop The Sims 4 thanks to TS3 Store ($25 MM revenue each year).
I'm sure they collected less money now than 2013. TS4 packs are cheaper , a lot of discounts, build-a-bundle and free basegame offer.
As you said, it's not a matter of money but of choices.
As long as they do the wrong choices like RoM, there is no way TS5 be a good game.
I hope it is, but I'm afraid these teams and leadership has no idea anymore what people are even talking about, and if they do, they ignore it, and just do what interest them and how they like things in any particular game they may play. If you read profiles many play mmorpgs and so do the others who work for EA, it's hard to stress what a life simulator should be to some when they enjoy a different genre much more. It's like talking to brick walls.
I could bet if players who bought ROM knew before hand they could already get potions from the base game that do the very same things that the 'magic' pack gives them they might have said, no, Maxis, why not develop something new for those magic tricks instead of using the same assets. But alas, I have a feeling they don't actually asks players but get focus groups from outer space.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I have a feeling people vote on these surveys just to express the want something like magic but had no idea it wouldn't even be the way the survey says it might be once completed. I think they take their vote and apply it in hopes they get that theme built no matter how badly it turns out. Because it is obviously the only way to get an idea into the game, or express what they wanted compared to whatever else is offered. Just to pass the theme. They hope against hope, Maxis will build a theme as well as they did in the past (Makin' Magic) and are just voting for the name of a theme, they really have no idea it's not even going to have the stuff the survey says it might have or tricks them into thinking it will have the same stuff as listed ina survey. The next time someone votes on a survey they should remember they may want the 'theme' but in no way is it going to even turn out like what the survey is stating it would be. That is the whole problem isn't it? The surveys lie.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Everybody hated Rod Humble when the Sims 3 came out. It came out very glitchy and he was in charge then. I expect it'll be the same when he brings out his new game, whatever it is.
That is an archive thread so don't add to it. It comes from 2010!
This thread was a fascinating read. Especially the part where a lot of the complaints about Sims 3 are the same complaints about Sims 4. Yet people have softened and enjoy the Sims 3 now they have a newer version to complain about.
It just seems that way. This community doesn't seem to be happy unless it's complaining and the linked thread made me see the community WAS just as bad when Sims 3 came out.
Everybody hated Rod Humble when the Sims 3 came out. It came out very glitchy and he was in charge then. I expect it'll be the same when he brings out his new game, whatever it is.
That is an archive thread so don't add to it. It comes from 2010!
This thread was a fascinating read. Especially the part where a lot of the complaints about Sims 3 are the same complaints about Sims 4. Yet people have softened and enjoy the Sims 3 now they have a newer version to complain about.
It just seems that way. This community doesn't seem to be happy unless it's complaining and the linked thread made me see the community WAS just as bad when Sims 3 came out.
Wow.
Yes, people complained about Sims 3 soon as it came out and I agree as people were talking about problems with Sims 3 and now those same problems are now manifesting itself in Sims 4. Part of the blame for me goes to EA/Maxis as they do not tweak the game as they should and the nature of the Sims series and how it is programmed.
Post edited by Goldmoldar on
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Everybody hated Rod Humble when the Sims 3 came out. It came out very glitchy and he was in charge then. I expect it'll be the same when he brings out his new game, whatever it is.
That is an archive thread so don't add to it. It comes from 2010!
This thread was a fascinating read. Especially the part where a lot of the complaints about Sims 3 are the same complaints about Sims 4. Yet people have softened and enjoy the Sims 3 now they have a newer version to complain about.
It just seems that way. This community doesn't seem to be happy unless it's complaining and the linked thread made me see the community WAS just as bad when Sims 3 came out.
Wow.
I have argued all along that Sims 2 was the peak of the Sims.
HOWEVER, in retrospect the shortcomings of Sims 3 were mostly there to compensate for the open world and not overloading old computers. It is a logical trade off, actually. And we got something tangible out of it. The complete lack of loading screens is a HUGE deal and everyone might not agree that it's worth sacrificing other details for, but again, at least it was an obvious and logical trade off.
SIms 4 vs Sims 3? We got loading screens back from Sims 2 (tho not as many) while getting even less detail and even less FUNCTIONS than Sims 3 with absolutely no noticeable trade off. At all.
And that was because the supposed trade off was a mandatory online multiplayer nobody wanted and thank god never got implemented. But again, that meant we only got sacrifices and no bonuses. No trade off for the simplified animations, added loading screens and just ripped out functionality.
How much time did it take them to make toddlers, 2 years? Two years for one lifestage?
Don't forget in 2017 EP04 Cats and Dogs was released.
New interactions, new CAS content, new AI, new traits, new skills, ... Pets and Toddler are more of work than creating Vampires.
@LeGardePourpre The Cats and Dogs expansion pack was probably the least detailed and worked on in the whole francise. LOL
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The Sims 4 General Discussion@LeGardePourpre The packs should be a seperate thing. They released a 🐸🐸🐸🐸 game and said they would fix it. How much time did it take them to make toddlers, 2 years? Two years for one lifestage? Obviously they are not investing enough in fixing the base game I bought for 65$ but instead decide to make packs in order to make more money.
The packs? Broken. Fixes? None. I still paid for those packs though thinking they would work.
A company that made over a BILLION dollars from a game saying they don't have enough budget, staff or time is a LIE.
@Simburian The Sims 3 actually got very much praise when it came out. I had issues but it was as badly received as The Sims 4 at launch
Do you mean like the maid in TS4 that hasn't worked correctly since day one and half the time wouldn't even show up?
ETA: And there really was no point in them since the player has it so easy peasy and can just drag stuff to a paying trash can...so, maids and butlers were just added fluff...so people could play with 'going through the motions'. That is actually a large problem with TS4 it only goes through the motions, since players could solve this themselves (dirt) without any maid or butler. What more fluff does this game need, when we just go through the motions.
ROM is another example of just going through the motions (fluff no depth) when players can already get those 'potions' in the base game. Why bother with actual playing it out when I can just drag it out of some extra reward list. Been there done it. They have been doing this sort of thing over and over, hard work? maybe, but they already had the wheel and just slapped on an animation when there really is no need since players already could get that stuff from reward lists for filling whims. ROM is merely going through motions to pretend they added anything new. There are dozen more examples, sorry, no, We don't see those repeats in some of the older games. And if those teams could do such a deep game for older games it makes me wonder why these teams can't. or won't or don't have time, Budget and time contraints have been a problem since the day Will Wright sold his company to EA and they became The Sims. Nobody was saying if you can do it better, go build your own game....why does anyone defend TS4 with such passion when the same company (maybe not all the same people) have done excellent work before but not now with their repeat and repeat content in the very same iteration. Players are right when they see the same stuff over and over in TS4, we might expect a repeat of someting from one iteration to the next, but dang, not in the same title, over and over.
Value of hard work, I saw the TS4 Sims could sit by a pool with their legs in the water, yes, that was innovative, and hard I have no doubt. I had been begging for something like that for many,many years, and also sit down with phone. Immersion matters so much in a life simulator. However, what has come out since the base that is mind blowing innovation? Nothing. Lot triats? No, because in older games if Sims hated the floor they were miserable, that bamboo flooring in TS2 comes to mind they all hate it, but the player doesn't see a lot trait they can click...but those things are there already. Environment scores, no, been there done it. Those already exists in the older games, so just slapping a name on something and extending it into a world enviornment (in a closed world system with only one active lot) is still only a lot enviornment that existed before. Also, NAPs not much innovation there either, since Seasons since TS2 has always affected all lots and all worlds etc. Already invented. It's a repeat of what is already possible, from way back and only going through motions since a player can slap a name on something. But the programming was always there just diverted to world (one lot) enviornment and pushing Sims to do certain things in a 'world' enviornment is no different than making them all use the stereo or crowd around the barista.
People may not like my feedback because I am harder to please, I am direct and blunt. But I'm right.
I had many issues with Sims3 myself and ranted on the Forum a bit then. It seems to me that Rod Humble was more into the role playing genre that Simmers feared back then than sandbox then so any game he brings out might be like a Batuu type one. That's if he hasn't learned from the later complaints about Sims 4. You can hope.
He appears to have hopped around a lot in his gaming career working on various things but not staying too long.
Simmers don't seem to change much though do they? It was the same back then as it is now. Always complaining!
@Simburian I just think it's naive to assume that people complain about the Sims 4 because they "like to complain". That's not taking people seriously.
The Sims 4 just got a looooot more hate than the previous and keeps getting it because it is a lackluster game. It's not just people being 🐸🐸🐸🐸.
No matter if Rod Humble was involved or not the Sims 3 still is more sandbox-like than the Sims 4.
for some they feel just because EA/Maxis made 20 more packs than an previous version does not necessarily mean those packs was robust than previous versions as I feel most of the packs from previous versions were better than what EA/Maxis is offering now. Of course EA/Maxis may be producing more packs for Sims 4 because it is still being produced whereas Sims 2 and 3 are out of development. For me EA/Maxis took the easy way out by not tweaking or fixing what they develop and why should someone sympathize with companies that produces gimped packs that is less technical than the packs from an previous version so they get an sorry Charlie from me. Where are the true features in Sims 4? they do not exist in this game. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine and EA/Maxis failed me as an customer by selling gimped packs because they are gimped themselves because they do not want to make an cutting edge simulation as they do not want ruffle any feathers and that is my opinion. Made 36 packs and an ton of features and not one of them bring the "A"
Large numbers of customers complaints are a glaring sign a company isn't doing something right. It isn't just The Sims, it's the way of the world. Smart companies welcome complaints and use them as a guidepost for ways they can improve.
Would you continue to eat at a restaurant that is known for rude waiters and food poisoning? You wouldn't, because customer complaints would put a bad restaurant out of business unless they clean up their act. For a game company it is a slower bleed, slowly unhappy customers stop believing in them, stop buying their game, find a better alternative and bring their friends with them. The Sims is lucky that their fans care enough to sick around and speak their mind, if we complainers abandoned ship instead perhaps they would not be able to afford to continue the series, seeing as they make millions off the game now, but can't afford to give use new animations and such.
I feel like a good reason people stick around is because there's no other alternative. If there were other Life Simulation games, similar in style as The Sims (as in characters or avatars that look more like RL people instead of playing cartoon animals like animal crossing) then a lot of people probably would NOT be sticking around.
But currently EA has the monopoly on Life Simulation games and since people (like me) who only play this genre of game are at their mercy we either have to accept what the franchise has turned into, go back to earlier iterations, or just completely stop playing.
And the sad thing is ..... EA knows this. That's why they CAN get away with peicemilling out the packs. Watering them down while only offering a small portion of gameplay objects and shoving out more, more, more content but it taking 3-4 packs to be the equivalent of what was once offered in earlier iterations packs.
I'm really confused, it's almost like their budget it ridiculously smaller than what they were allotted in the past. If they were shoving out packs every month, I might be able to understand the concept of smaller budget and less quality packs, but they're not .... it still takes them the same amount of time.
This is exactly what happened with Sim City 2013. After the complete and utter fiasco of that title people were looking for alternatives and came to the same conclusion... the titles available were either the older versions of the same series or a few, also older, but worse competitors like Cities XL. But then just a few months later Cities Skylines exploded on the scene and part of that explosion was that people were still actively looking for an alternative and the timing of the release was very lucky.
Don't forget in 2017 EP04 Cats and Dogs was released.
New interactions, new CAS content, new AI, new traits, new skills, ... Pets and Toddler are more of work than creating Vampires.
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionYes, I agree. I am lucky, because I play alot of different games, so when I feel frustrated with Sims 4 it is easier for me to step away, but I still feel sad that I have spent so much on this game, but still get bored so quickly. I want to buy stuff to improve Sims 4, but ECO was too buggy and Star Wars was meh in my opinion. So I skipped them both.
I think about this alot. This has happened to other games I like too. Harvest Moon was replaced by Stardew Valley, a tiny independent game with old school graphics. Rollercoaster Tycoon was replaced by Planet Coaster. It happens, and to be honest I would jump ship pretty quickly if something better came along, because my loyalty to The Sims is hanging on a thread.
Sit + multitask, this thing that the lounge chair can't do...
Of course I agree with your feedback.
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionStill not the same thing. Toddlers, as much I, personally loathe them (and did in Sims 2 and 3 as well, I am simply not a kid person not even IRL) are an essential lifestage. What you are saying is admitting that they DID focus on the WRONG things.
No, it is not easy to develop games, but it isn't impossible, we're talking about EA, a rich company. They can hire the amount of people they need to make a good game. Other companies have managed to make well received games. It is also important to acknowledge that the Sims 4 isn't perfect and it's okay for people talk about what they don't like or want added.
You also said that EA is listening to you, but you aren't the only person playing TS4. You represent a minority of Sims 4 players, a lot of people feel as if they haven't been heard. A few years ago, the Sims 4 introduced toddlers, which was great, yes, they did listen back then, but what about now? Many people have been asking for the same things for a while now, but we aren't getting it. Babies have been a problem for a while and they have had time to fix it, 6 years. Also, saying "if you don't like a game then make one yourself" isn't a good argument. Some people may not have the time or money to do that. Also, we PAID for the Sims expecting a good life simulation game. I appreciate hard work and all, but they aren't working on things a majority of people want. The community has been very vocal about things they want but they aren't fixing/adding certain things.
They can work hard on a Star Wars pack that a lot of people feel is useless/dislike, but what will their hard work do for anyone if a lot of people don't even want it? Once again, glad that they're working hard but they should apply that energy towards other things, things a majority of the community wants. We have 35 packs but people want a better base game. If a house's foundation is shaky, it doesn't matter what you add on top of the house, the foundation will stay broken until someone fixes it (which shouldn't be modders).
Not everyone can get mods nor should they have to rely on them. Mods should not be necessary to get rid of bugs and add things that should already be in the game. From what I've seen, people are mainly upset with the base game and all of the bugs.
By the way, none if this was supposed to be rude or passive aggressive so if I came off that way, sorry, that was not my intent. I am also open-minded, so it is very possible for you to change my mind about these topics.
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Of course it's not always what we could expect.
But I want to trust the studio until the end of TS4 because they are still able to improve this game.
I invested too much money in the game, I won't give up now.
If the conclusion is not satisfying and they miss this opportunity to prove us that they understand our expectations, there will be no reason to purchase TS5 because it will be the same story again.
I think it's very important to support them and explain them what is good, what is bad and why, encouraging them to do better. Keep on showing them the path to follow.
Insulting them and lowering them won't help us to obtain what we want, just it will demotivate them and make the game be worse.
Even if you paid an employee, he will be more motivate, efficient and cooperative if you're kind with him. (be kind but not blind)
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionI also think it's important to give constructive feedback, however, the game is six years old, and I know of plenty of feedback that was well written, explained point by point exactly what people had to say about TS4 Sims' personalitities. So much so, dozens and dozens of examples were given of why these Sims are all the same just different bodies. It really couldn't have been any clearer and even the biggest doubter could have seen exactly what the poster was saying, in any thread that discussed these Sims, without having to ask a question about what they had said or what they meant. But after six long years of explaning this stuff, nothing has ever been done about it, which we all know if we even read feedback this is the number one complaint about TS4. Every where. If after six years of 'trust' I think we might need to decide it's a little too late. (For some of us). Also, they have made over a billion on this version across all platforms, so no need to keep supporting in hopes they have enough money to build TS5 or any other game. They can do it right now, without anyone having to spend another dime on TS4, after being told if they don't support it there might not be a TS5, well, they have the money, so no need to waste anymore.
They had plenty of money to develop The Sims 4 thanks to TS3 Store ($25 MM revenue each year).
I'm sure they collected less money now than 2013. TS4 packs are cheaper than TS3, a lot of discounts, build-a-bundle and free basegame offer.
As you said, it's not a matter of money but of choices.
As long as they do the wrong choices like RoM, there is no way TS5 be a good game.
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionI hope it is, but I'm afraid these teams and leadership has no idea anymore what people are even talking about, and if they do, they ignore it, and just do what interest them and how they like things in any particular game they may play. If you read profiles many play mmorpgs and so do the others who work for EA, it's hard to stress what a life simulator should be to some when they enjoy a different genre much more. It's like talking to brick walls.
I could bet if players who bought ROM knew before hand they could already get potions from the base game that do the very same things that the 'magic' pack gives them they might have said, no, Maxis, why not develop something new for those magic tricks instead of using the same assets. But alas, I have a feeling they don't actually asks players but get focus groups from outer space.
The survey idea.
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The Sims 4 General DiscussionI have a feeling people vote on these surveys just to express the want something like magic but had no idea it wouldn't even be the way the survey says it might be once completed. I think they take their vote and apply it in hopes they get that theme built no matter how badly it turns out. Because it is obviously the only way to get an idea into the game, or express what they wanted compared to whatever else is offered. Just to pass the theme. They hope against hope, Maxis will build a theme as well as they did in the past (Makin' Magic) and are just voting for the name of a theme, they really have no idea it's not even going to have the stuff the survey says it might have or tricks them into thinking it will have the same stuff as listed ina survey. The next time someone votes on a survey they should remember they may want the 'theme' but in no way is it going to even turn out like what the survey is stating it would be. That is the whole problem isn't it? The surveys lie.
This thread was a fascinating read. Especially the part where a lot of the complaints about Sims 3 are the same complaints about Sims 4. Yet people have softened and enjoy the Sims 3 now they have a newer version to complain about.
It just seems that way. This community doesn't seem to be happy unless it's complaining and the linked thread made me see the community WAS just as bad when Sims 3 came out.
Wow.
Yes, people complained about Sims 3 soon as it came out and I agree as people were talking about problems with Sims 3 and now those same problems are now manifesting itself in Sims 4. Part of the blame for me goes to EA/Maxis as they do not tweak the game as they should and the nature of the Sims series and how it is programmed.
I have argued all along that Sims 2 was the peak of the Sims.
HOWEVER, in retrospect the shortcomings of Sims 3 were mostly there to compensate for the open world and not overloading old computers. It is a logical trade off, actually. And we got something tangible out of it. The complete lack of loading screens is a HUGE deal and everyone might not agree that it's worth sacrificing other details for, but again, at least it was an obvious and logical trade off.
SIms 4 vs Sims 3? We got loading screens back from Sims 2 (tho not as many) while getting even less detail and even less FUNCTIONS than Sims 3 with absolutely no noticeable trade off. At all.
And that was because the supposed trade off was a mandatory online multiplayer nobody wanted and thank god never got implemented. But again, that meant we only got sacrifices and no bonuses. No trade off for the simplified animations, added loading screens and just ripped out functionality.
@LeGardePourpre The Cats and Dogs expansion pack was probably the least detailed and worked on in the whole francise. LOL