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Blatant racism vs Covert Racism that sadly and upsetting seems to exist in the sims
drakharis
Posts: 1,478 Member
Now that I got your attention. I hope that you are all listening and paying attention to this. I hope it makes The Influencers really think about this and use their powers to address this issue in the sims. First I want to apologize if I manage to offend or insult any of you. That is not my intent.
Both covert racism and blatant racism to me are equally unjust depressing, insulting and offensive to me. Both really need to addressed and acknowledged. I will try not to stir up too much trouble and avoid starting a riot. I will do my best to word my feelings without sounding too (bleep)
Let me start with I don't know any of you and I'm not calling anybody racist. I honestly don't believe that at all. Maybe unaware and because of being unaware, you don't realize this at all. I'm here to open eyes and hopefully minds along the way.
First, let me start with my opinion on the lack of skin tones, lack of 4c and 3c hairstyles and hair colours as being a form of covert racism. This they say they are finally working on and I can't express that finally and I am very grateful for this. It's about time. We really need this.
However, it's a bandaid on a bullet wound.
Unknown to the white Game Changers and White Influencers in the community some races are absent from Sims 4. While they were crusading against the lack of skin tones and the need to fix skintones for minorities and focusing on the lack of hairstyles for minorities and different hair colours missing in the game. They all failed to mention how some races don't exist at all. Not because of lack of skintones or lack of hairstyles or even lack of hair colours. If that was the case I wouldn't be creating this thread. They failed to mention in order to create a Native American or Canada's First People or other races that simply don't exist unless you aren't opposed to using custom presets, custom sliders or don't mind spending extra time in CAS attempting to create the non-existent race in question. No race should be left out all.
I repeat some races don't exist at all. This I interpret as blatant racism. Now I could be totally wrong and simply be misinterpreting something.
It's not from lack of skin tones. It's not from lack of hairstyles and hair colours. I honestly wish it was.
It's from ZERO yes I said ZERO presets existing in eyes, noses, lips, cheeks, and heads to create that race in the sims 4 at all. I have to use custom head presets and use custom sliders to create a Native American sim. I shouldn't have to. This should already exist in the base game. It does not. As ok as I am with this being the case I'm not ok with the seeming blatant racism and injustice of it. If that makes any sense at all.
Imagine if you will if the worst thing I could complain about was not the right hairstyle or the right skin colour or right hair colour. I could completely celebrate with this victory. I would truly be thrilled that finally, I might have some decent hair skin tones and hair colours for my race. That would be a glorious day. Yay!
However, this is truly a double-edged sword and what I interpret as blatant racism still exists and that is a serious issue that skin tones hairstyles and hair colours cannot and never will fix.
Now to explain software used in the industry and how simple it is to remedy this. I know in the modding and CC Community Blender is the programme often used.
However, Daz Studio, Poser, 3ds Max and Maya are amongst the Industry Standards in videogame development. Daz bridges to Maya, Poser, Blender, 3ds Max, Photoshop and other software making it a dream when crunched for time. With Daz, there are People of the World and Faces of the World add on paid content which again saves time in creating a model when crunched for time. Each focusing on a race with over 20 morphs for each individual race. Northern Europeans. Africans. Asians. Native Americans and many more. Daz has every skin tone known to humankind and tons of fantasy skintones I honestly believe. No race is left out or forgotten about saving lots of time in production and instead of a block to face or complete character taking sometimes days to create and render it's cut down to about an hour depending on your computer, you are working on. All because of the Genesis model. Which the original Genesis model that came out many years ago with without set sex or gender making the shaping of the basic model through morphs determines the gender or sex or the character being created. Since then Genesis 8 which is the current Genesis model that is out, comes as both a basic female and basic male model and is even more intuitive to work with. Allowing for past Genesis items from Genesis, Genesis 2 and Genesis 3 to be used with Genesis 8. Depending on their base programme used guaranteed they can use Genesis to cut down on time to create the much-needed race and ethnic presets in the game. The license for Daz isn't that much a year either in comparison to other companies out there.
With that said here is no excuse at all and just do it. There is no reason for any race or ethnic group to not exist at all in the sims.
Please let us work together and make every race count. Please let us work together and make every race exist because in the words of many influencers everyone has the right to create themselves in the sims because the sims slogan is "play with life". When even one race or ethnic group is forgotten or missing we cannot have true diversity. Please don't support blatant racism. Please don't support Covert racism. Every one of you matters whether I like you or not you really do matter. This is something we all need to stand up against. We need to change this.
I really want to be proven wrong. I really want to see Native Americans in the game and say I was wrong in my belief that they will never add this in because taking care of the loudest voice in the room needs to be addressed first rather than fixing the problem of some races and ethnic groups not even existing at all which is just a whisper amongst the shouts being drowned out.
As I said before I would be over the moon if all that needed to be done for creating Native American and other races and ethnic groups that don't even appear in sims was some new skintones new hairstyles and new hair colours. But it's not that easy of a fix to fix this we need a few presets added into the game.
Again I am genuinely happy about more hairstyles more skin tones and more hair colours will be added in. It is about time but there is a lot more work to be done. End all racism and discrimination in the sims. One victory is better than zero victories. I'll be happy with that one victory.
Please if you respond stay on topic and don't change it. I'm not happy about discrimination against the disabled in the community either and want disabilities in the game too. Please don't hijack the thread with that. This thread is to address both covert and blatant racism as it exists in the game. It's to comment on ethnic and race discrimination as it appears in the game. It's to comment on joy about adding in new skintones fixing existing skin tones adding in hair colours and hairstyles. It's to address the fact that some races and ethnicities don't exist through any presets and that we need to use custom presets and spend more time in CAS by adjusting our sims features to get the basic face of a missing non-existent forgotten race or ethnicity in the sims. It's to discuss the injustice of racism as it seems to appear in the game. It's to discuss what we need to do as a community to fix this.
I apologize if I came across as harsh and insensitive to any of you. I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings. Stay safe and healthy everyone.
Both covert racism and blatant racism to me are equally unjust depressing, insulting and offensive to me. Both really need to addressed and acknowledged. I will try not to stir up too much trouble and avoid starting a riot. I will do my best to word my feelings without sounding too (bleep)
Let me start with I don't know any of you and I'm not calling anybody racist. I honestly don't believe that at all. Maybe unaware and because of being unaware, you don't realize this at all. I'm here to open eyes and hopefully minds along the way.
First, let me start with my opinion on the lack of skin tones, lack of 4c and 3c hairstyles and hair colours as being a form of covert racism. This they say they are finally working on and I can't express that finally and I am very grateful for this. It's about time. We really need this.
However, it's a bandaid on a bullet wound.
Unknown to the white Game Changers and White Influencers in the community some races are absent from Sims 4. While they were crusading against the lack of skin tones and the need to fix skintones for minorities and focusing on the lack of hairstyles for minorities and different hair colours missing in the game. They all failed to mention how some races don't exist at all. Not because of lack of skintones or lack of hairstyles or even lack of hair colours. If that was the case I wouldn't be creating this thread. They failed to mention in order to create a Native American or Canada's First People or other races that simply don't exist unless you aren't opposed to using custom presets, custom sliders or don't mind spending extra time in CAS attempting to create the non-existent race in question. No race should be left out all.
I repeat some races don't exist at all. This I interpret as blatant racism. Now I could be totally wrong and simply be misinterpreting something.
It's not from lack of skin tones. It's not from lack of hairstyles and hair colours. I honestly wish it was.
It's from ZERO yes I said ZERO presets existing in eyes, noses, lips, cheeks, and heads to create that race in the sims 4 at all. I have to use custom head presets and use custom sliders to create a Native American sim. I shouldn't have to. This should already exist in the base game. It does not. As ok as I am with this being the case I'm not ok with the seeming blatant racism and injustice of it. If that makes any sense at all.
Imagine if you will if the worst thing I could complain about was not the right hairstyle or the right skin colour or right hair colour. I could completely celebrate with this victory. I would truly be thrilled that finally, I might have some decent hair skin tones and hair colours for my race. That would be a glorious day. Yay!
However, this is truly a double-edged sword and what I interpret as blatant racism still exists and that is a serious issue that skin tones hairstyles and hair colours cannot and never will fix.
Now to explain software used in the industry and how simple it is to remedy this. I know in the modding and CC Community Blender is the programme often used.
However, Daz Studio, Poser, 3ds Max and Maya are amongst the Industry Standards in videogame development. Daz bridges to Maya, Poser, Blender, 3ds Max, Photoshop and other software making it a dream when crunched for time. With Daz, there are People of the World and Faces of the World add on paid content which again saves time in creating a model when crunched for time. Each focusing on a race with over 20 morphs for each individual race. Northern Europeans. Africans. Asians. Native Americans and many more. Daz has every skin tone known to humankind and tons of fantasy skintones I honestly believe. No race is left out or forgotten about saving lots of time in production and instead of a block to face or complete character taking sometimes days to create and render it's cut down to about an hour depending on your computer, you are working on. All because of the Genesis model. Which the original Genesis model that came out many years ago with without set sex or gender making the shaping of the basic model through morphs determines the gender or sex or the character being created. Since then Genesis 8 which is the current Genesis model that is out, comes as both a basic female and basic male model and is even more intuitive to work with. Allowing for past Genesis items from Genesis, Genesis 2 and Genesis 3 to be used with Genesis 8. Depending on their base programme used guaranteed they can use Genesis to cut down on time to create the much-needed race and ethnic presets in the game. The license for Daz isn't that much a year either in comparison to other companies out there.
With that said here is no excuse at all and just do it. There is no reason for any race or ethnic group to not exist at all in the sims.
Please let us work together and make every race count. Please let us work together and make every race exist because in the words of many influencers everyone has the right to create themselves in the sims because the sims slogan is "play with life". When even one race or ethnic group is forgotten or missing we cannot have true diversity. Please don't support blatant racism. Please don't support Covert racism. Every one of you matters whether I like you or not you really do matter. This is something we all need to stand up against. We need to change this.
I really want to be proven wrong. I really want to see Native Americans in the game and say I was wrong in my belief that they will never add this in because taking care of the loudest voice in the room needs to be addressed first rather than fixing the problem of some races and ethnic groups not even existing at all which is just a whisper amongst the shouts being drowned out.
As I said before I would be over the moon if all that needed to be done for creating Native American and other races and ethnic groups that don't even appear in sims was some new skintones new hairstyles and new hair colours. But it's not that easy of a fix to fix this we need a few presets added into the game.
Again I am genuinely happy about more hairstyles more skin tones and more hair colours will be added in. It is about time but there is a lot more work to be done. End all racism and discrimination in the sims. One victory is better than zero victories. I'll be happy with that one victory.
Please if you respond stay on topic and don't change it. I'm not happy about discrimination against the disabled in the community either and want disabilities in the game too. Please don't hijack the thread with that. This thread is to address both covert and blatant racism as it exists in the game. It's to comment on ethnic and race discrimination as it appears in the game. It's to comment on joy about adding in new skintones fixing existing skin tones adding in hair colours and hairstyles. It's to address the fact that some races and ethnicities don't exist through any presets and that we need to use custom presets and spend more time in CAS by adjusting our sims features to get the basic face of a missing non-existent forgotten race or ethnicity in the sims. It's to discuss the injustice of racism as it seems to appear in the game. It's to discuss what we need to do as a community to fix this.
I apologize if I came across as harsh and insensitive to any of you. I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings. Stay safe and healthy everyone.
Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
![https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]](/en_US/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Ft48COW6.jpg%5B%2Fimg%5D){kind=link}
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Comments
I dont view the lack of representation as blatant racism from EA per se, its just a reflection of the world. For black people with the lack of hair options is a reflection of real life when you go to buy hair products at the store and our products are this tiny section locked up behind a glass wall. Now things have changed a bit after lawsuits and companies trying to cash in on the "natural" movement but it comes down to how will EA make the most $$$???
Ah yes. We will put out video after video about how inclusive we are. Thatll bring it it. Despite the lack of personality, we are inclusive, diversive, in every sense of the word. The game may no no consequences or tiniest worlds to date but "the sims has always number one priority is inclusitivity" (sims 1 would beg to differ). Id really rather they focus on personality and consequences rather than apperances but their target audience is totally different these days. Id rather a games with a good story than the customization. There are plenty of games I play where the story doesnt allow me to customize the character all. But i know im a white guy or girl. Like 70% of the time. But I enjoy it because the games story is good. The Sims 3 people looked like they crawled out of a lagoon but I love the stories and personalities and thats why I enjoy the game. I dont really need the game to represent me 110%, id rather them focus on the personalities and functions of the gameplay itself, but I can sympathize with the fustration.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
However that bringing said, bravo to the:
Towel Dress (S D)
Straight Long with feathers hairstyle (E L)
Instead, the game should focus on a more complex sims creator tool, adequate enough for the player to create a sim of any appearance.
TS4's CAS is good, but it can be much better. As you mentioned, it should have unique sliders for certain features that are currently missing. Really there should be height sliders.
Skin tones and skin details should be expanded by adding new swatches, or through a complete CAS overhaul. There should be a greater variety of hair styles, including textured hair and more natural colors.
I'm a hybrid of about 50 different 'races'. I can't find a preset of anything that looks like me, because my 'race' doesn't exist in game. I'm not even a 'race' anymore.
What I am is a human being with a blend of different physical features. And in the end that's what everybody's appearance is. A blend of physical features.
It's not Maxis' job to represent every single race in The Sims. It's Maxis' job to give us the right tools so we can create a sim that looks like ourselves, or another person with unique features, or something completely ridiculous that doesn't even exist in the world (Or so we think...).
That's why it's a game. If a tool like that exists, no one has to be disappointed.
None of the faces given in the existing game looks anything like me or my family so I push, pull the existing features to something like but hate to put my life in the game as I am superstitious about it and immersing myself so deeply as to put my own life in the game would be mentally damaging to me personally.
Folks may have to run their game on something other than a mini fridge, but I think it's very much possible for a Sims game to have a more advanced CAS tool. It doesn't have to be expensive.
With all the mod sliders and CC skin tones and overlays I use in game, (I use about every slider I can get my hands on) I manage to get very close to creating sims of any ethnicity. My machine has no problem with performance. My CAS is a bit of a mess, because of the way it's designed right now, but other than that, there's no problem.
I believe if CAS combined features from the Create a Pet Tool, we'd be able to spray on freckles, acne, vitiligo, moles, tattoos, scars, etc.
I'm still confused as to why that hasn't happened yet...
It seems that society views diversity=black, and kind of forgets that other minorities or PoC exist. If they really care about diversity, they would champion adding customisation that extends beyond black aesthetics
My Plumbob is GREEN today
The Sims 4 hasn't introduced a new musical instrument since 2017
I'm not trying to excuse anything, but honestly, to the extent that there may not be presets for some races in the game at all, I imagine that the devs didn't (and still do not) realize this. A lot of people live in isolated communities without any indigenous people and probably do not understand how the current presets can't be used to make them.
It's similar to how a lot of people don't realize that most black people have super curly hair. Some people think that a majority? of black people have straight-ish hair and so they don't really get it when people ask for hairs that are afro-textured because they don't really know what that looks like. So adding hairs was a really big deal and not a matter of style. A lot of CC creators showed EA the way with how to do black hair and skin textures.
So I think that this type of request might be met with non-action partly because people just don't get it. They don't know what you mean by presets not existing. They don't know what indigenous people consider their defining features and even if they Google it, they still might struggle a bit.
I have loved and played games since i was a little child and 90%of games being japanese and me being south Asian I have never once saw a character that looked like or represented me or my color or culture. But over the years I have bonded with those characters I have laughed and cried with them (looking at you FFX and older rpgs) and went on a journey with them because the gameplay and storyline were so deep and meaningful to me. And I was just having mindless fun!!!!
I feel the the sims mentioning inclusivity has opened up a can of worms and people are taking it the wrong way. Bad marketing on their part.
I could start campaigning now wHeRe aRe alL oF tHe soUTh AsiaN characters?!! We come in a variety of looks and skintones and I don't see it! Only one or two saris that represent my culture! But what I did instead was used the tools they provided to make a few of my own south asian characters as well as cc for more south asian inspired items. But usually I don't even think of race when I play the sims. That's never what it was meant to me about
It's literally impossible to cover every since race and culture. And I personally want them to put their time and effort into personalities, emotional overhauls, gameplay for kids. Fear emotions etc etc all the things that will make me laugh and cry with my sims as games of old did. And graphics of old games were seriously lacking, characters were often ugly but the story and gameplay made it worth wild!!
I know race is a sensitive subject hope you understand I'm not trying to say your feelings doesn't matter! 🙂
Do you mean Zoe Patel from Oasis Springs? Can't think of anyone else who might fit this description in the base game.
Vlad The Dad: A 100 Baby Challenge, Vlad as ‘matriarch’ *COMPLETE*
Breed Out The Weird *COMPLETE*
Yes.
Also to the op: For this to be blatant racism the creators would have at one point said "we are not doing ...". This means they did this "openly and unashamedly" to exclude certain content. (straight from the dictionary) In CAS this may be very obvious to some players however I do not think it was intentional. It's not IMO offensively noisy. It was not vulgar or done in an offensive manner. I am happy that you pointed this out. I am happy that you voiced your opinion on this matter and backed it up. Your feelings were well spoken and acknowledged. Well done!
I love this game and can't wait to see what is coming this fall!
I think for a lot of people it's different because the Sims is fundamentally a very American game even though it tries to be global so for Americans (i.e, black Americans, native Americans, Asian Americans etc.) to be left out from an American game that makes a big deal out of the very American values of diversity and inclusivity, it just feels wrong, especially since the Sims is a life simulator and not an RPG where people tend to play specific characters.
I'm only part
English/French/German/Prairie Cree/Scottish.
Take this to twitter and they will be Clenching their Walmart pearls & attacking you for speaking the truth .
😂😂😂
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
So many sweet, kind people have been incredibly racist to me in the most polite way with no hatred in their hearts. But guess what? It's still racism, even when you don't mean it to be.
And, yes, completely omitting certain races, even if it's by accident, or because they thought "we've given them enough tools to do it for themselves" is a racist assumption.
And for the people saying "well they don't have x race for me and I'm fine with it, so why should they have x race for you?" Why shouldn't you have that for yourself? This game has countless additions through patches and dlc. Why shouldn't they continue to add more options? Keep asking for the things you want! All the things!
We live in a racist society. No discussion. Racism is the water we drink and the air we breathe. It seeps into everything, even our entertainment. It's running in the background of everything we do. We are all responsible for unlearning racism, which is something you are never "done" doing, no matter who you are.
I applaud OP for advocating for themselves and people like them. Representation is important.
And I wish the people in here "well actually"-ing all over themselves would maybe try listening for once. It's embarrassing.
What kind of studies do you need to take to be an "expert" on racism? 🤔 Why is one commenters opinion more valuable than another? They arent omitting 'certain' races there are no races in the game. Just colors!! People are taking this way too far when we could have better personalities, worlds, consequences by now 😭
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
everything is so racist. It's modern now, isn't it?
The game would be racist if there were no skin colors other than one! Which it isn't! TS is from the beginning a game where there is equality. not only between nations and races, but also between the sexes (although men have far less clothing). There is freedom about sexuality, etc.!
TS4 has many bugs, but I would not accuse them of racism.
Fight with the racism in real life!
Thank you, I think you touched on the real issue.
The Sims games in the past were in their own universe, and that universe had no "race", but it did have diversity to a small extent. In Sims 2, for example, there were four skin tones, ranging from light to dark. Because the game was a satire of humanity, and the player was meant to be the "God". It was a simplified way to create whatever appearance or "culture" the player wanted their Sims to have. If you activated the Aliens by using the telescope at night, then you also got the green skin tone, but it was exclusive to Aliens.
While The Sims games have always contained that diversity, they have never claimed to represent any race or religion. In Sims 3, there was a skin tone slider, but I believe you could also access the color wheel to create unusual skin tones like pink and blue so it really expanded on creating what was in your imagination, which was the point of the game. But the tools were already there for diversity, and the company didn't have to proclaim it to the world. They did also have some cultural representation in locations, both in Sims 2 and Sims 3 (I can't speak for Sims 1, I haven't played it) but that was where the line was drawn.
Enter Sims 4 and suddenly EA/Maxis wants to jump on the trend bandwagon to be "part of the crowd'. Suddenly, the game's long history of diversity speaking for itself isn't good enough to get attention, but they have to shout loud and proud to get that pat on the back (and, let's be realistic, money.) Suddenly they're preaching up and down about inclusion and culture and diversity, making huge presentations out of every addition that speaks to that agenda. And while it's good to include those things in game by default, and expand on them, the marketing of it always left a bad taste to me because it's using a serious issue to get sales, and eventually, the expectations will go above and beyond what they are capable of accommodating.
How can you declare inclusivity and cultural diversity by tossing in a selection of splotchy dark tones and call it a day? Sure, they say their work isn't done, but that's the caveat because it will never be done. And I think they are beginning to understand the corner they've backed themselves into, even after they release these new tones. Because now, every time they release something to represent a cultural group or race, another culture is going to get offended that they haven't been represented, including the light/white-skinned cultures. Because Irish, Finnish, Italian, Icelandic, Czech, New Zealanders, etc. all exist too, and yes, Natives of various regions. As do many different Asian and Latino races. If you're going to claim to be inclusive of cultures and races but then pick and choose what cultures you want to represent just to appeal to a movement or trend, you are going to appear racist when you're not delivering on truly being diverse.
Honestly, I don't see how they can get out of it now. The game should have been left up to the interpretation of its players, while these new, diverse items got patched in on a neutral stance, or under the presentation of just expanding CAS. But they've raised a flag and declared their game representative of real people, so real people are going to expect representation.
I also seriously question you stating that it is a FACT that you CANNOT create a Native American Sim in The Sims 4. There are so many parameters within CAS to create whoever you want. Why, supposedly, are you having so much trouble? Now, if you stated you want to see Native American style clothing, then I could get on board with you on that. I'd be curious to see which types of clothing get added and who the team talks with to make this happen so that it's done right. But, you seriously can't make a Native American Sim at all? Because...?
What is preventing you from using the parameters within CAS to make adjustments to get features the way you want them to create your Native American Sim?