Some of these comments seem to be borderline nasty/harrassing the OP. I think we all know who I'm talking about. I would suggest to just report these people for trying to create drama, clearly they're having a bad day and feel the need to take it out on others.
If people don't share OPs opinion they can just comment once with their opinion, and do it respectfully. There's absolutely no need to keep coming back to this thread and attacking. No need to invalidate other peoples opinions, I'm sure OP doesn't go around attacking you every time you have an issue with the game.
A lot of these comments are all too familiar to me having been under the same attacks in the past. It's baiting and mob mentality plain and simple, these kinds of people love to make really patronising comments and demean others opinions to try and get a raise out of them. It's the typical tactics, attack someone for their opinion, accuse them of being whiney and attention seeking and then when they ask you to be more respectful attack them for trying to "control what you can and can't say". Then they come on with the "Nobody is being mean we're just respectfully disagreeing!" (which is total bull.) Just block them and leave the moderators to clean them out
nobody can invalidate ops opinions by disagreeing with them I haven't seen anyone say op was whiney
maybe I missed it somewhere
Doesn't have to be direct it can be implied. There are many, many comments saying OP should stop complaining and making a fuss about nothing and saying they should make their own rather than whining.
From a psychologist invalidating someone's opinion is; "the process of denying, rejecting or dismissing someone’s feelings. Invalidation sends the message that a person’s subjective emotional experience is inaccurate, insignificant, and/or unacceptable." A lot of people in this thread are rejecting OPs issues with the situation and implying their opinion is insignificant and ridiculous
then aren't you invalidating peoples opinion by saying there's does not matter and they should not disagree
with op because it invalidates her opinion ? I'm sorry but with that train of thought everyone's opinion is
invalid because people will never agree all the time I would rather think that everyone's opinions
are valid whether you agree with them are not sorry if I make you feel invalidated
Invalidation happens all one's life, in job areas and private life and one has to get used to it. It's what makes us toughen up or give up. Sims 4 does give us a chance to grab a bit back though, even if in small ways.
Given the fact the many lesbian women rightfully complain about being made invisible in mainstream culture (also compared with us gay men), we should perhaps simply be generous and happy that they are well represented in TS4 instead of counting every pea, as we say in German.
I think it may be because they don't know enough about gay
Most of the sims I created are Asians (other races are almost same less if subdivided the Caucasian, but all of my Caucasian sims combined are still less than Asian sims), it just because I know Asians best. Most of my Asian sims are Chinese, it just because I know Chinese best. Probably many people have this tendency when creating sims. I'm not Asian supremacist or Chauvinist.
But you're not going around shaming EAxis for not having enough Asians, or more specifically, Chinese sims represented in the game. Asians are admirably quiet about that kind of stuff - they just quietly move ahead and create their own - excellent I might add - CCs and mods to make better more accurate looking Asian sims.
Some of these comments seem to be borderline nasty/harrassing the OP. I think we all know who I'm talking about. I would suggest to just report these people for trying to create drama, clearly they're having a bad day and feel the need to take it out on others.
If people don't share OPs opinion they can just comment once with their opinion, and do it respectfully. There's absolutely no need to keep coming back to this thread and attacking. No need to invalidate other peoples opinions, I'm sure OP doesn't go around attacking you every time you have an issue with the game.
A lot of these comments are all too familiar to me having been under the same attacks in the past. It's baiting and mob mentality plain and simple, these kinds of people love to make really patronising comments and demean others opinions to try and get a raise out of them. It's the typical tactics, attack someone for their opinion, accuse them of being whiney and attention seeking and then when they ask you to be more respectful attack them for trying to "control what you can and can't say". Then they come on with the "Nobody is being mean we're just respectfully disagreeing!" (which is total bull.) Just block them and leave the moderators to clean them out
nobody can invalidate ops opinions by disagreeing with them I haven't seen anyone say op was whiney
maybe I missed it somewhere
Doesn't have to be direct it can be implied. There are many, many comments saying OP should stop complaining and making a fuss about nothing and saying they should make their own rather than whining.
From a psychologist invalidating someone's opinion is; "the process of denying, rejecting or dismissing someone’s feelings. Invalidation sends the message that a person’s subjective emotional experience is inaccurate, insignificant, and/or unacceptable." A lot of people in this thread are rejecting OPs issues with the situation and implying their opinion is insignificant and ridiculous
then aren't you invalidating peoples opinion by saying there's does not matter and they should not disagree
with op because it invalidates her opinion ? I'm sorry but with that train of thought everyone's opinion is
invalid because people will never agree all the time I would rather think that everyone's opinions
are valid whether you agree with them are not sorry if I make you feel invalidated
I made it pretty clear that my issue is with people repeatedly attacking OP, not with people respectfully disagreeing. If you read my comments properly you'd know that.
If people don't share OPs opinion they can just comment once with their opinion, and do it respectfully. There's absolutely no need to keep coming back to this thread and attacking. No need to invalidate other peoples opinions, I'm sure OP doesn't go around attacking you every time you have an issue with the game.
Respectfully disagreeing is fine, invalidating someones opinion, derailing their thread, creating drama and calling them whiney is not.
Hm I’ve never noticed *anything* about the pre-mades tbh. I couldn’t even tell you their races or genders let alone any relationship or personal back stories. I immediately ship them all out to my retirement town Oasis Springs and promptly continue to ignore them. Didn’t know they were such a hotbed for controversy!
Hm I’ve never noticed *anything* about the pre-mades tbh. I couldn’t even tell you their races or genders let alone any relationship or personal back stories. I immediately ship them all out to my retirement town Oasis Springs and promptly continue to ignore them. Didn’t know they were such a hotbed for controversy!
@popstarsley Well actually they're not, but you know...people...
Given the fact the many lesbian women rightfully complain about being made invisible in mainstream culture (also compared with us gay men), we should perhaps simply be generous and happy that they are well represented in TS4 instead of counting every pea, as we say in German.
Lesbians are represented in entertainment FAR more than gay men are - and this is not always a positive thing for lesbians, as it is done so in a sexualising way made for the straight male's gaze very often. They know that a female/female couple is way more socially acceptable to the mainstream than a male/male couple, because of the aforementioned male gaze. And if there is backlash, they can simply make the character bisexual and hook them up with a man. Many TV shows and movies these days are featuring lesbian couples - who are nearly always both attractive white women (such as Supergirl).
Pixar has included a lesbian couple in Finding Dory, Toy Story 4 and Onward (and each of these couples has a child). Yet they have not included one gay couple, and Disney is notorious for not having any LGBT representation (which is fine because its targeted at kids). But this makes the Pixar couples stick out even more.
The Last of Us Part II, the sequel to most popular video game of recent times, lauded its own LGBT inclusion - which consisted of a lesbian couple and a trans boy. I would like to say that TLOU2 actually did very well with the character of Ellie - she is not a stereotype. I absolutely adore her as a character, and long for the day when a gay male character can be shown as a positive role model in the way that she is (being brave and raising a family, having a religious partner, etc). I could write an essay on her and this - I feel so attached to her as she is the only positive gay role model in recent times, and it's quite sad there isn't a male one too. But needless to say, there were no gay men in TLOU2. Life is Strange is another video game with a lesbian protagonist. Can you name one video game with a gay male protagonist or a gay male character who is a positive role model?
The representation of gay men in media is extremely common nowadays -but only one representation of gay men is shown. TV shows like Drag Race and Queer Eye represent all gay men as hyper-feminine, hyper-sexual, catty and fashion-forwards. The same can be said for the supporting gay best friends in many TV shows, movies and books. And the way female singers use effeminate gay men in their concerts and music videos is the same. Intellectual, strong, conservative (in regards to "woohoo" and the way they dress) and masculine gay men do not exist in any forms of entertainment. Further, just because gay men are shown all the time, gay relationships are hardly ever represented. The only ones I can think of are on TV shows like Will & Grace and Queer as Folk and soap operas, which also illustrate gay men as promiscuous and in a stereotypical fashion. Add into this that the word gay is being changed to the word queer everywhere you look, then gay representation has changed from showing two men in a relationship to showing an effeminate man who challenges the status quo. [Effeminate gay men are absolutely valid and I support their right to be whoever they are, but it would be nice to have some variation in the type of gay man being portrayed). I cannot think of any gay parents on TV except the ones in the Modern Family TV show who are simply used as the butt of jokes.
How you can possibly say that lesbians are invisible in media is beyond me when every film/TV show is shoehorning a lesbian couple in these days (for the wrong reason, as stated above) but even so they still have SOME variation in their portrayal (such as being parents, being positive role models, being portrayed as both masculine and feminine-presenting) whereas gay men are simply being used as props and male/male relationships are completely ignored.
I am happy that lesbians are having some positive representation but that does not mean that I will not make my voice heard asking for some of that positive representation for gay males. Why does it have to be either, or? Why can it not be both?
I had made a decision in my head to either ask a Mod to close this or to no longer reply, but the replies that continue to be written have made up my mind to keep this thread open and stick to my argument. some people can no longer stick to the narrative that they are simply disagreeing with me. Instead it feels like an integration - you naughty little child! You have been given the crumbs, how dare you ask for a full slice!
Instead of saying 'I don't know or care about this topic too much, but your OP makes it appear that way. HOWEVER, maybe the reason is this...' or 'Perhaps there is a disparity, but...' (which some people have done, of course) the trend seems to be to belittle me and start with an accusatory statement. I am getting the impression that people seem to be outraged that I have even brought up this topic, and that I should simply shut my mouth. Instead of there being nuance, it is just black and white. "Lesbians are getting well-represented, so SIMPLY be happy for them (and shut your mouth about gay couples)." "You can make gay couples yourself, so you are a fool for wanting EA to make them and push an agenda (so shut your mouth about it). " The vitriol is literally dripping off of some people's keyboards that one of the puppets has cut his own strings.
@Simtanium
You make some really good points.
The media really does ignore masculine gay men, yet they are far more common in real life than people realise, because they are masculine, and people assume they're straight.
And as for Disney, it's ridiculous that evil step mothers are better represented than good same sex parents.
I honestly didn't realise that there were lesbian couples in finding dory and toy story 4, but that didn't change the fact that lesbian couples are being represented much more frequent even as early as in Buffy the vampire slayer. The only male gay protagonist (optional) in video game is life is strange 2 or fallout 4(optional too)
Looking at culture from a European perspective and having organized a small international queer film festival in my home town for many years, I strongly disagree. Gay men get praise and hate and admiration and parody from Brazil to Vietnam while lesbian women very often get nothing. Our team often had the greatest difficulties to find any lesbian movies that were attractive for an intellectual audience (not talking about animated fishes and other American candy crap).
If you look at the history of Western countries until the 1960s, you see that gay men were criminalized and hated, but also in some way feared as political subjects. Lesbian women however were ignored. Of course these times are over for decades now, but the difference still persists. Men dominate pride parades, men come to everyone's mind in the discussion about gay marriage, male gay politicians get ten times more attention than lesbian politicians (at least here in Germany).
Honestly, I think you've been watching the wrong shows if you're not seeing male gay couples. I just went through all of the shows I've seen and most of them have a variation of a gay character and no, they're not all effeminate. Examples of shows with (minor) gay characters are Skins, Awkward, 90210,The Vampire Diaries, Shadow Hunters, The Originals, Riverdale, The 100, Glee, Grey's Anatomy... These are huge shows. Male gay relationships are really not that underrepresented.
I didn’t even realize there were lesbian couples in TS4. Not to be a jerk, but how do you find this out? Do you need to play the premade family and look at their relationships? Never thought to do that with any premades.
Just as the prebuilt houses absolutely stink with zero thought put into them, I just assume the premade Sims typically stink too, so I never bother to check them out 🤣
I guess I did notice that a brown guy was one of the Uni premades, and was happy about that but other than that I pay zero attention to them. (I still shipped him out to my retirement home for premades, though.)
I hope you’re not mad, OP, I think there’s just a disparity between those who check in on premades to even understand they have a deal and those who just carry on to make their own Sims. I hope anybody who wants more representative premades can get them!
I didn’t even realize there were lesbian couples in TS4. Not to be a 🌺🌺🌺🌺, but how do you find this out? Do you need to play the premade family and look at their relationships? Never thought to do that with any premades.
Just as the prebuilt houses absolutely stink with zero thought put into them, I just assume the premade Sims typically stink too, so I never bother to check them out 🤣
I guess I did notice that a brown guy was one of the Uni premades, and was happy about that but other than that I pay zero attention to them. (I still shipped him out to my retirement home for premades, though.)
I hope you’re not mad, OP, I think there’s just a disparity between those who check in on premades to even understand they have a deal and those who just carry on to make their own Sims. I hope anybody who wants more representative premades can get them!
I make a lot of my own sims as well but I do read about the premades none of my sims seem to fall for them though
I love video games, but I hate this about them. It is especially bad when you have a choice to romance companions or NPCs, but they only include straight options. It is the only thing that makes it difficult for me to get into games like the Witcher, and I love the Mass Effect series, but it drives me crazy that it took 3 games for them to finally allow a male Shepard to romance male companions.
The Sims does a lot better, since I can create my own worlds and fill them however I want, but it does bother me how much focus goes in to female sims in general.
AND A BIG YES, I would love more gay pre-made couples, and I would also love more/better male CAS choices. Also want an option to control the types of NPCs that show up in game (I use a mod to do this now), and I think an option to choose gender attraction would be a good thing for everyone. The game needs a proper attraction system in general, but I hope that it takes into account gender.
Not everyone gets a chance to be represented in a video game, I myself a wheelchair user has zero representation in any main series sim game as far as I know. I understand your desires for wanting more representation but you can’t blame the dev’s for not adding enough in. Just know they are working hardest to implement more inclusivity, such as skin tones. I will agree with your original post though about lesbian couples having way more representation than gay couples, keep in mind I wasn’t trying to silence you with this comment, but to know they are working at inclusivity in all areas.
Honestly, I think you've been watching the wrong shows if you're not seeing male gay couples. I just went through all of the shows I've seen and most of them have a variation of a gay character and no, they're not all effeminate. Examples of shows with (minor) gay characters are Skins, Awkward, 90210,The Vampire Diaries, Shadow Hunters, The Originals, Riverdale, The 100, Glee, Grey's Anatomy... These are huge shows. Male gay relationships are really not that underrepresented.
I am going to ask again why you think EA needs to do anything when you can make the sims yourself? Why is it their responsibility to make something you are capable of making?
I am going to ask again why you think EA needs to do anything when you can make the sims yourself? Why is it their responsibility to make something you are capable of making?
Honestly, I think you've been watching the wrong shows if you're not seeing male gay couples. I just went through all of the shows I've seen and most of them have a variation of a gay character and no, they're not all effeminate. Examples of shows with (minor) gay characters are Skins, Awkward, 90210,The Vampire Diaries, Shadow Hunters, The Originals, Riverdale, The 100, Glee, Grey's Anatomy... These are huge shows. Male gay relationships are really not that underrepresented.
I am going to ask again why you think EA needs to do anything when you can make the sims yourself? Why is it their responsibility to make something you are capable of making?
This is the fourth time you have asked this question in this thread. I appreciate your for me but you really don't have to make the same comment every time you see this thread getting new replies.
I am going to ask again why you think EA needs to do anything when you can make the sims yourself? Why is it their responsibility to make something you are capable of making?
This is the fourth time you have asked this question in this thread. I appreciate your for me but you really don't have to make the same comment every time you see this thread getting new replies.
Not really but ok and I am asking because you seem to think I am ignorant or something. I am asking because I rather the sims team focus on other things not something you are capable of making yourself. No matter how many times you post telling people you want them represented it’s not at everyone’s priority of things to add in the game considering you can make the sims you want yourself.
Comments
then aren't you invalidating peoples opinion by saying there's does not matter and they should not disagree
with op because it invalidates her opinion ? I'm sorry but with that train of thought everyone's opinion is
invalid because people will never agree all the time I would rather think that everyone's opinions
are valid whether you agree with them are not sorry if I make you feel invalidated
But you're not going around shaming EAxis for not having enough Asians, or more specifically, Chinese sims represented in the game. Asians are admirably quiet about that kind of stuff - they just quietly move ahead and create their own - excellent I might add - CCs and mods to make better more accurate looking Asian sims.
I made it pretty clear that my issue is with people repeatedly attacking OP, not with people respectfully disagreeing. If you read my comments properly you'd know that.
Respectfully disagreeing is fine, invalidating someones opinion, derailing their thread, creating drama and calling them whiney is not.
@popstarsley Well actually they're not, but you know...people...
Lesbians are represented in entertainment FAR more than gay men are - and this is not always a positive thing for lesbians, as it is done so in a sexualising way made for the straight male's gaze very often. They know that a female/female couple is way more socially acceptable to the mainstream than a male/male couple, because of the aforementioned male gaze. And if there is backlash, they can simply make the character bisexual and hook them up with a man. Many TV shows and movies these days are featuring lesbian couples - who are nearly always both attractive white women (such as Supergirl).
Pixar has included a lesbian couple in Finding Dory, Toy Story 4 and Onward (and each of these couples has a child). Yet they have not included one gay couple, and Disney is notorious for not having any LGBT representation (which is fine because its targeted at kids). But this makes the Pixar couples stick out even more.
The Last of Us Part II, the sequel to most popular video game of recent times, lauded its own LGBT inclusion - which consisted of a lesbian couple and a trans boy. I would like to say that TLOU2 actually did very well with the character of Ellie - she is not a stereotype. I absolutely adore her as a character, and long for the day when a gay male character can be shown as a positive role model in the way that she is (being brave and raising a family, having a religious partner, etc). I could write an essay on her and this - I feel so attached to her as she is the only positive gay role model in recent times, and it's quite sad there isn't a male one too. But needless to say, there were no gay men in TLOU2. Life is Strange is another video game with a lesbian protagonist. Can you name one video game with a gay male protagonist or a gay male character who is a positive role model?
The representation of gay men in media is extremely common nowadays -but only one representation of gay men is shown. TV shows like Drag Race and Queer Eye represent all gay men as hyper-feminine, hyper-sexual, catty and fashion-forwards. The same can be said for the supporting gay best friends in many TV shows, movies and books. And the way female singers use effeminate gay men in their concerts and music videos is the same. Intellectual, strong, conservative (in regards to "woohoo" and the way they dress) and masculine gay men do not exist in any forms of entertainment. Further, just because gay men are shown all the time, gay relationships are hardly ever represented. The only ones I can think of are on TV shows like Will & Grace and Queer as Folk and soap operas, which also illustrate gay men as promiscuous and in a stereotypical fashion. Add into this that the word gay is being changed to the word queer everywhere you look, then gay representation has changed from showing two men in a relationship to showing an effeminate man who challenges the status quo. [Effeminate gay men are absolutely valid and I support their right to be whoever they are, but it would be nice to have some variation in the type of gay man being portrayed). I cannot think of any gay parents on TV except the ones in the Modern Family TV show who are simply used as the butt of jokes.
How you can possibly say that lesbians are invisible in media is beyond me when every film/TV show is shoehorning a lesbian couple in these days (for the wrong reason, as stated above) but even so they still have SOME variation in their portrayal (such as being parents, being positive role models, being portrayed as both masculine and feminine-presenting) whereas gay men are simply being used as props and male/male relationships are completely ignored.
I am happy that lesbians are having some positive representation but that does not mean that I will not make my voice heard asking for some of that positive representation for gay males. Why does it have to be either, or? Why can it not be both?
Instead of saying 'I don't know or care about this topic too much, but your OP makes it appear that way. HOWEVER, maybe the reason is this...' or 'Perhaps there is a disparity, but...' (which some people have done, of course) the trend seems to be to belittle me and start with an accusatory statement. I am getting the impression that people seem to be outraged that I have even brought up this topic, and that I should simply shut my mouth. Instead of there being nuance, it is just black and white. "Lesbians are getting well-represented, so SIMPLY be happy for them (and shut your mouth about gay couples)." "You can make gay couples yourself, so you are a fool for wanting EA to make them and push an agenda (so shut your mouth about it). " The vitriol is literally dripping off of some people's keyboards that one of the puppets has cut his own strings.
Unfortunately, I won't be shutting my mouth.
You make some really good points.
The media really does ignore masculine gay men, yet they are far more common in real life than people realise, because they are masculine, and people assume they're straight.
And as for Disney, it's ridiculous that evil step mothers are better represented than good same sex parents.
If you look at the history of Western countries until the 1960s, you see that gay men were criminalized and hated, but also in some way feared as political subjects. Lesbian women however were ignored. Of course these times are over for decades now, but the difference still persists. Men dominate pride parades, men come to everyone's mind in the discussion about gay marriage, male gay politicians get ten times more attention than lesbian politicians (at least here in Germany).
Too Good at Goodbyes forum thread
Too Good at Goodbyes blog
Just as the prebuilt houses absolutely stink with zero thought put into them, I just assume the premade Sims typically stink too, so I never bother to check them out 🤣
I guess I did notice that a brown guy was one of the Uni premades, and was happy about that but other than that I pay zero attention to them. (I still shipped him out to my retirement home for premades, though.)
I hope you’re not mad, OP, I think there’s just a disparity between those who check in on premades to even understand they have a deal and those who just carry on to make their own Sims. I hope anybody who wants more representative premades can get them!
I make a lot of my own sims as well but I do read about the premades none of my sims seem to fall for them though
The Sims does a lot better, since I can create my own worlds and fill them however I want, but it does bother me how much focus goes in to female sims in general.
AND A BIG YES, I would love more gay pre-made couples, and I would also love more/better male CAS choices. Also want an option to control the types of NPCs that show up in game (I use a mod to do this now), and I think an option to choose gender attraction would be a good thing for everyone. The game needs a proper attraction system in general, but I hope that it takes into account gender.
don't forget Shameless.
@pepperjax1230 I think this has been answered already.
and will and grace
@Gecko420 I really hope the devs can add wheelchairs into TS4 soon and you get a chance to represent yourself.
This is the fourth time you have asked this question in this thread. I appreciate your