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    SimtaniumSimtanium Posts: 256 Member
    edited August 2020
    Simtanium wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    Also looking at some of the comments some people seem to be being really unnecessarily cruel and aggressive for absolutely no reason. It's a reasonable thing to be disappointed about, just because it's not an issue that bothers you doesn't mean it's not a valid concern. Obviously you can make your own townies but that's not the same representation as it just being there already in the game. I'm hoping they'll start to add more same-sex male couples in the near future because one in the entire game really isn't much

    Thanks for saying that. Like I've said before, if they didn't have any pre-made same-sex couples at all I wouldn't have caused a stink or accused them of anything. But they've opened themselves up to this discussion with pushing inclusion and being vocally pro-LGBT, and the disparity just feels a bit sad given their history and coming to expect more this franchise than from others.

    I literally asked people to have a respectful debate or to move along. The reaction to this thread seems disproportionately hostile.

    I am not bullying or shaming or forcing anyone to do anything and I do not have a problem with lesbians - which are all things that have been thrown at me. I literally was just sharing my perspective and what I had found (which I had previously discussed with a friend who agreed with me), and felt comfortable doing so when this franchise and community is usually so open.

    My problem isn't people disagreeing with me but it's the tone that some people have that seems to infer that I'm somehow stupid or hysterical to have that view, and that I shouldn't even be afforded the time of day to share it.

    last time I am gonna post here, correct me if I am wrong but you actually told someone above to not bother commenting if they weren't bringing anything in the conversation.

    You can't cherry pick who can comment on your thread because they agree and not allow people who disagree.

    Again, make your own sims, no one is stopping you.

    Did you actually look to what the posts where that I was replying to? To refresh your memory, those posts were:

    "I disagree" and "Once again, I disagree."

    Other people commented on these posts being troll posts, and even people who disagreed with my opinion told him to expand on his answer and asked how he could disagree with statistics.

    So, yes I will continue to ask people not to reply to my thread if they are not going to add anything constructive and just be flippant. It was NOT because he didn't agree with me.
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    SimtaniumSimtanium Posts: 256 Member
    Simburian wrote: »
    I believe that people in so called free political systems are not aware that Sims 4 is also sold in countries where there are ultra strict laws and EA has to be very discreet about what it puts in the game, no matter what EA might say on it's Twitter feed.
    I think we should let those people in those countries still be able to play Sims without the game being banned and let all of us make the Sims we want for ourselves in the game in privacy.

    Just my opinion. <3

    This is true, and it's why companies' regional Twitter pages all put up rainbow flags in the month of June EXCEPT the Russian and Middle Eastern regional pages (and why Russia didn't get the pop-up about the Pride month plumbob, as I asked a Russian friend about it). But like I said, EA was very brazen putting in homosexual relationships before so it feels a let down for them to downplay it now.
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    SimtaniumSimtanium Posts: 256 Member
    edited August 2020
    @GlacierSnow Thank you for your lovely and thoughtful response, and well done for posting it. :heart: This is is exactly what I was getting at: I posted this not to say "GIVE ME GAY SIMS, NOW!" I actually wasn't even asking for EA to add in more gay couples in my OP. I was simply pointing out something I noticed that disappointed me, that some friends also agree with me on, and wanted to bring it to the attention of a wider audience/potentially the devs. Now I'm not innocent because my replies have gotten more and more personal and more about feelings than facts (which I avoided in the OP), but I still believe I have been respectful. The fact that people don't care about this topic or disagree is absolutely fine and I support their right to feel that way, but I don't like being made to feel as if me even making this topic is wrong and stupid and not worth the space it is taking up. There is something sinister boiling underneath some of these posts and I don't like it.
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    pepperjax1230pepperjax1230 Posts: 7,953 Member
    Simtanium wrote: »
    Simtanium wrote: »
    Onverser wrote: »
    Also looking at some of the comments some people seem to be being really unnecessarily cruel and aggressive for absolutely no reason. It's a reasonable thing to be disappointed about, just because it's not an issue that bothers you doesn't mean it's not a valid concern. Obviously you can make your own townies but that's not the same representation as it just being there already in the game. I'm hoping they'll start to add more same-sex male couples in the near future because one in the entire game really isn't much

    Thanks for saying that. Like I've said before, if they didn't have any pre-made same-sex couples at all I wouldn't have caused a stink or accused them of anything. But they've opened themselves up to this discussion with pushing inclusion and being vocally pro-LGBT, and the disparity just feels a bit sad given their history and coming to expect more this franchise than from others.

    I literally asked people to have a respectful debate or to move along. The reaction to this thread seems disproportionately hostile.

    I am not bullying or shaming or forcing anyone to do anything and I do not have a problem with lesbians - which are all things that have been thrown at me. I literally was just sharing my perspective and what I had found (which I had previously discussed with a friend who agreed with me), and felt comfortable doing so when this franchise and community is usually so open.

    My problem isn't people disagreeing with me but it's the tone that some people have that seems to infer that I'm somehow stupid or hysterical to have that view, and that I shouldn't even be afforded the time of day to share it.

    last time I am gonna post here, correct me if I am wrong but you actually told someone above to not bother commenting if they weren't bringing anything in the conversation.

    You can't cherry pick who can comment on your thread because they agree and not allow people who disagree.

    Again, make your own sims, no one is stopping you.

    Did you actually look to what the posts where that I was replying to? To refresh your memory, those posts were:

    "I disagree" and "Once again, I disagree."

    Other people commented on these posts being troll posts, and even people who disagreed with my opinion told him to expand on his answer and asked how he could disagree with statistics.

    So, yes I will continue to ask people not to reply to my thread if they are not going to add anything constructive and just be flippant. It was NOT because he didn't agree with me.
    But you are telling people how to post if they don’t agree with you. Everyone in this forum is free to say what they want and give their opinions. That isn’t being a troll.
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    SimtaniumSimtanium Posts: 256 Member
    Reading comprehension was a subject when my Mom was at school, but they scrapped it. Luckily I picked it up naturally.
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    filipomelfilipomel Posts: 1,693 Member
    I would have to disagree with this post. The main thing I want to see represented in a Sims game is the Sims themselves, and chances are how they are represented is my choice, even with pre established townies. I could turn the whole town gay if I wanted to, even though the townies already have some preset conditions, I can always change that and change the game to represent what I want to see represented. I’m sure that’s the same for every other sims player, they all have things in their games they want to see represented, but it’s up to the player to make that representation.

    This isn’t me being opposed to seeing more diverse relationships in the game, however I don’t see this as an issue. They have a gay male couple in both Seasons and Cats and Dogs trailers, they have a gay couple in the Cats and Dogs expansion itself. They have advertisements with gay male couples featured in it. The Sims 4 clearly isn’t afraid of representing gay male couples.

    I guess the way I see it is who cares if there are more lesbian couples than gay ones? That’s not to say I’m trying to discredit anyone who does care, but to me it’s a non issue seeing more lesbians than gays if I’m honest.
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    SimtaniumSimtanium Posts: 256 Member
    edited August 2020
    @filipomel thas fine luv. ya entitled to ya opinion. x

    However there were no gay gay Sims included in TS4 advertisements, and there were no gay Sims in the Seasons trailer.* Just pointing that out. I have stated why the disparity between male and female S/S couples feels bothersome several times now, and my OP shows that this disparity DOES exist. If this doesn't bother you then that's absolutely fine! You don't have to change your opinion to make me happy.

    Edit to add that I was wrong and a gay couple is featured in the Seasons trailer, and that trailers are classed as advertisements.
    Post edited by Simtanium on
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    StrawberryYogurtStrawberryYogurt Posts: 2,799 Member
    I mean are you interested in what other people think or do you just want an echo chamber?
    The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5

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    Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
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    SimtaniumSimtanium Posts: 256 Member
    edited August 2020
    This thread is giving me a headache.

    Let's just summarise a few things:

    Male same-sex couples are under-represented in the Sims 4 when compared to female same-sex couples. This isn't my opinion but a fact backed-up by evidence.

    Some people care about this disparity, and some do not. You are absolutely entitled to have whatever opinion you want, but not caring about this disparity does not make the disparity disappear.

    The purpose of this thread wasn't to make everyone cry over the poor gays, or to make EA suddenly make the next world West Hollywood. It was simply to share an observation I found that a few of my friends thought was interesting, and to illustrate that EA is not quite as inclusive as it prides itself on being.

    I hope everyone has a good night. :smile:

    Edited to change the word liberal to inclusive.
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    Shadow_AssassinShadow_Assassin Posts: 1,670 Member
    I think it may be because they don't know enough about gay
    Most of the sims I created are Asians (other races are almost same less if subdivided the Caucasian, but all of my Caucasian sims combined are still less than Asian sims), it just because I know Asians best. Most of my Asian sims are Chinese, it just because I know Chinese best. Probably many people have this tendency when creating sims. I'm not Asian supremacist or Chauvinist.
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    GlacierSnowGlacierSnow Posts: 2,344 Member
    Simtanium wrote: »
    @filipomel thas fine luv. ya entitled to ya opinion. x

    However there were no gay gay Sims included in TS4 advertisements, and there were no gay Sims in the Seasons trailer. Just pointing that out. I have stated why the disparity between male and female S/S couples feels bothersome several times now, and my OP shows that this disparity DOES exist. If this doesn't bother you then that's absolutely fine! You don't have to change your opinion to make me happy.

    In the Cats and Dogs reveal trailer which was shown in the US, Brent and Brant appear twice. Once while having dinner together and once while getting married. Those appearances are at 0:51 and 0:54. https://youtube.com/watch?v=OFWb3lgRpcE Brent also is featured on the cover art for the Cats and Dogs expansion. http:https://origin.com/usa/en-us/store/the-sims/the-sims-4/expansion/the-sims-4-cats-and-dogs// I know you have indicated you don't particularly like this couple because they seem stereotyped to you, but they are used in the advertising.

    In the Seasons gameplay trailer discussing the calendar and holidays system, when Love Day is featured, there are three couples shown: One F/F couple, one M/M couple and one F/M couple. The M/M couple can be seen at 0:55. [url="httphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il9mN_Hv4RM://&quot;]httphttps://youtube.com/watch?v=Il9mN_Hv4RM://[/url]

    I agree with a lot of the other points you've made, but saying that gay male couples haven't been used in advertising isn't exactly correct, unless where you are living they showed different videos. In the US, these are the ones we saw.
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    SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 2,724 Member
    Simtanium wrote: »
    This thread is giving me a headache.

    Let's just summarise a few things:

    Male same-sex couples are under-represented in the Sims 4 when compared to female same-sex couples. This isn't my opinion but a fact backed-up by evidence.

    Some people care about this disparity, and some do not. You are absolutely entitled to have whatever opinion you want, but not caring about this disparity does not make the disparity disappear.

    The purpose of this thread wasn't to make everyone cry over the poor gays, or to make EA suddenly make the next world West Hollywood. It was simply to share an observation I found that a few of my friends thought was interesting, and to illustrate that EA is not quite as liberal as it prides itself on being.

    I hope everyone has a good night. :smile:

    I agree with everything except that because there are less male gay couples in the Sims 4 then that means EA isn't as liberal and doesn't want to include more male gay couples. I don't agree with that because that isn't backed up. We don't know what they're thinking or if this is intentional or not.
    You could be right but we just don't know. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say that them not adding more gay couples in the game is unintentional and not mean-spirited. Unless there is bigger evidence I can't accuse them of anything.
    I would love more male gay couples though, so if EA happens to include some, bring it on.
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    SimtaniumSimtanium Posts: 256 Member
    @SimmerGeorge I edited my post to change the word "liberal" to "inclusive."

    @GlacierSnow I didn't know about the gay couple in the Seasons trailer. I edited my post to show that I was wrong. By advertising I was specifically referring to the fact that lesbian couples are used on the game front cover and the Spark'd advertisement. But I agree that a trailer should come be classed as advertising. The fact that one of the Heckings is on the front of the boxart is different to having a gay couple (who are clearly a couple), though.
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    SimburianSimburian Posts: 6,914 Member
    Simtanium wrote: »
    Simburian wrote: »
    I believe that people in so called free political systems are not aware that Sims 4 is also sold in countries where there are ultra strict laws and EA has to be very discreet about what it puts in the game, no matter what EA might say on it's Twitter feed.
    I think we should let those people in those countries still be able to play Sims without the game being banned and let all of us make the Sims we want for ourselves in the game in privacy.

    Just my opinion. <3

    This is true, and it's why companies' regional Twitter pages all put up rainbow flags in the month of June EXCEPT the Russian and Middle Eastern regional pages (and why Russia didn't get the pop-up about the Pride month plumbob, as I asked a Russian friend about it). But like I said, EA was very brazen putting in homosexual relationships before so it feels a let down for them to downplay it now.

    Well, at least in those countries Simmers can point to your heading now and say that it doesn't need banning. Life is tough for some people and has to go under the radar.
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    SimtaniumSimtanium Posts: 256 Member
    edited August 2020
    I don't think video game companies in the developed world shouldn't have to tiptoe around countries that operate under medieval ideologies.
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    comicsforlifecomicsforlife Posts: 9,585 Member
    Simtanium wrote: »
    I'm not going to let people purposely misinterpreting my thread or making out as if trying to have a well-thought out discussion about this topic makes me some selfish SJW. These boards are used to communicate feedback to EA so here is my feedback to them. My post on this on Tumblr has upwards of a hundred likes/reblogs, and many other gay male Simmers agree with me on this.

    A few snotty people being snotty on an internet forum aren't going to shame me into not sharing my perspective. Go and be Ben Shapiro on someone else's thread, owning libtards. :smile:

    no one is calling you a libtards that l have seen stuff like that is not allowed on here
    I have seen other people say that they would like some other things more then a new gay premade
    or they feel it isn't needed because they can make there own or that they feel other things are needed
    more thats how every feedback and idea thread works around here no matter what its about
    the sims forum doesn't work like Tumblr its different this is how most threads go here
    its how we share ideas and believe me you are most welcome :)
    more for sim kids and more drama please
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    JACKIEJOYJACKIEJOY Posts: 802 Member
    The disparity is probably more do to with telemetry than a purposeful policy. Most of the people who play online or put content on the gallery make female sims. So marketing uses females. Someone at EA will hopefully see this thread and take action. Or not because they do aim this game at young women.
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    MovottiMovotti Posts: 7,774 Member
    I think it may be because they don't know enough about gay
    Most of the sims I created are Asians (other races are almost same less if subdivided the Caucasian, but all of my Caucasian sims combined are still less than Asian sims), it just because I know Asians best. Most of my Asian sims are Chinese, it just because I know Chinese best. Probably many people have this tendency when creating sims. I'm not Asian supremacist or Chauvinist.
    You're probably right.
    The majority of my sims are European-esque, with many of them being gothic types. I have a smattering of sims representing other regions. I also have some stereotypical gym-junkies and pseudo-valley-girls as a plastique-fantastic contrast to my world of darkness.

    We really do create what we know, what we've suffered, or what we fantasize.

    When it comes to the town I grew up in, the population was white, almost exclusively of English and German descent. I think there was one Maori family, and one Indigenous family. And I was the only goth. A baby bat at that. My few friends were social outcasts too. The 'other' kids were all into sports.

    So yes, like us, perhaps the developers are uncertain about creating families that are representative of a male gay family.
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    Doxiedog6Doxiedog6 Posts: 47 Member
    Maybe people create sims that reflect their own lifestyle, including developers. Not built in bias, just playing their own life experience.
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    Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,918 Member
    At least you have the ability to represent them. Me if I want to play a black family I have to install mods for hair and skintones, so consider you happy.
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    OnverserOnverser Posts: 3,364 Member
    edited August 2020
    Some of these comments seem to be borderline nasty/harrassing the OP. I think we all know who I'm talking about. I would suggest to just report these people for trying to create drama, clearly they're having a bad day and feel the need to take it out on others.

    If people don't share OPs opinion they can just comment once with their opinion, and do it respectfully. There's absolutely no need to keep coming back to this thread and attacking. No need to invalidate other peoples opinions, I'm sure OP doesn't go around attacking you every time you have an issue with the game.

    A lot of these comments are all too familiar to me having been under the same attacks in the past. It's baiting and mob mentality plain and simple, these kinds of people love to make really patronising comments and demean others opinions to try and get a raise out of them. It's the typical tactics, attack someone for their opinion, accuse them of being whiney and attention seeking and then when they ask you to be more respectful attack them for trying to "control what you can and can't say". Then they come on with the "Nobody is being mean we're just respectfully disagreeing!" (which is total bull.) Just block them, report their comments and leave the moderators to clean them out.
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    CamkatCamkat Posts: 2,329 Member
    I have to disagree. If you can create it yourself, without CC, it's represented. We can not expect them to give us every scenario and every preset. We do have to do some of the work ourselves.

    I don't think this was done intentionally either. I think they look at the market and it's females who play the game (mostly). Out of the LGBTQ community, it's again, mostly females or those who identify as such. They're simply catering to the masses and who the majority of simmers might identify with and that seems to be of the female variety.

    All that said though, there's been enough of an outcry about this and this isn't the first thread I've seen on this exact same topic. Especially since EL came out with 2 female couples included. I wouldn't be surprised at all if within the next couple of packs we see a gay male couple with a child.

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    wickichickwickichick Posts: 11,130 Member
    I am always so impressed that in the forums the discussions that are of the variety to be considered "sensitive" for the most part are received with respect and grace(not always but for the most part)...better then say like on other social platforms....the subject of "feelings" and what one might wish to see happen and genuine points indicating there is still work that needs to be done....it is often enlightening. I read the responses for that reason ..the chance that someone will further educate me to help along life's way....sometimes the point is lost along the way because everyone has experienced some kind of social injustice and yet where the solutions seem to be simple ...it gets complicated. Everyone deserves to feel included ... we can hope to bring more of that to life but it is never going to envelope all the hurts and raw spots that exist in our world today. This thread has been a good read.
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    comicsforlifecomicsforlife Posts: 9,585 Member
    Onverser wrote: »
    Some of these comments seem to be borderline nasty/harrassing the OP. I think we all know who I'm talking about. I would suggest to just report these people for trying to create drama, clearly they're having a bad day and feel the need to take it out on others.

    If people don't share OPs opinion they can just comment once with their opinion, and do it respectfully. There's absolutely no need to keep coming back to this thread and attacking. No need to invalidate other peoples opinions, I'm sure OP doesn't go around attacking you every time you have an issue with the game.

    A lot of these comments are all too familiar to me having been under the same attacks in the past. It's baiting and mob mentality plain and simple, these kinds of people love to make really patronising comments and demean others opinions to try and get a raise out of them. It's the typical tactics, attack someone for their opinion, accuse them of being whiney and attention seeking and then when they ask you to be more respectful attack them for trying to "control what you can and can't say". Then they come on with the "Nobody is being mean we're just respectfully disagreeing!" (which is total bull.) Just block them and leave the moderators to clean them out

    nobody can invalidate ops opinions by disagreeing with them I haven't seen anyone say op was whiney
    maybe I missed it somewhere
    more for sim kids and more drama please
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    OnverserOnverser Posts: 3,364 Member
    edited August 2020
    Onverser wrote: »
    Some of these comments seem to be borderline nasty/harrassing the OP. I think we all know who I'm talking about. I would suggest to just report these people for trying to create drama, clearly they're having a bad day and feel the need to take it out on others.

    If people don't share OPs opinion they can just comment once with their opinion, and do it respectfully. There's absolutely no need to keep coming back to this thread and attacking. No need to invalidate other peoples opinions, I'm sure OP doesn't go around attacking you every time you have an issue with the game.

    A lot of these comments are all too familiar to me having been under the same attacks in the past. It's baiting and mob mentality plain and simple, these kinds of people love to make really patronising comments and demean others opinions to try and get a raise out of them. It's the typical tactics, attack someone for their opinion, accuse them of being whiney and attention seeking and then when they ask you to be more respectful attack them for trying to "control what you can and can't say". Then they come on with the "Nobody is being mean we're just respectfully disagreeing!" (which is total bull.) Just block them and leave the moderators to clean them out

    nobody can invalidate ops opinions by disagreeing with them I haven't seen anyone say op was whiney
    maybe I missed it somewhere

    Doesn't have to be direct it can be implied. There are many, many comments saying OP should stop complaining and making a fuss about nothing and saying they should make their own rather than whining.

    From a psychologist invalidating someone's opinion is; "the process of denying, rejecting or dismissing someone’s feelings. Invalidation sends the message that a person’s subjective emotional experience is inaccurate, insignificant, and/or unacceptable." A lot of people in this thread are rejecting OPs issues with the situation and implying their opinion is insignificant and ridiculous



    Since people are gonna like the below comment without reading, here's my previous comment where I proved everything they said wrong.
    Onverser wrote:
    If people don't share OPs opinion they can just comment once with their opinion, and do it respectfully. There's absolutely no need to keep coming back to this thread and attacking. No need to invalidate other peoples opinions, I'm sure OP doesn't go around attacking you every time you have an issue with the game.
    Post edited by Onverser on
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