@Sigzy05 I don't have an issue with anyone (including straight people - can't believe I have to post that) posting their opinion, so please don't put words into my mouth. You contradict yourself halfway through your post by agreeing with me after accusing me of being the Angry Gay. I didn't accuse anyone of having any sort of bigotry, and it really doesn't bother me if someone doesn't agree with my lifestyle.
I have gone over the reasons why EA should be held accountable several times now, however. So I'm going to leave it at that.
I really didn’t put words on your mouth though. It simply was what it seemed to me. Why else point out for instance that your post had a lot of likes on tumblr from other gay people?
And how did I contradict myself? Also, what is an “Angry Gay”?
Why else point out for instance that your post had a lot of likes on tumblr from other gay people?
To illustrate that the responses in this thread are not indicative of the general consensus, and to prove that this isn't just some fringe "LOOK AT ME AND VALIDATE ME!" type of thread by someone with too much time on their hands but something that many people have noticed and feel disappointed by.
I'm pretty sure, looking at your post history, you champion criticism of EA. But when I point out their hypocrisy I'm in the wrong because it's a topic you disagree with?
Why else point out for instance that your post had a lot of likes on tumblr from other gay people?
To illustrate that the responses in this thread are not indicative of the general consensus, and to prove that isn't some fringe "LOOK AT ME AND VALIDATE ME!" type of thread by someone with too much time on their hands but something that many people have noticed and feel disappointed by.
I'm pretty sure, looking at your post history, you champion criticism of EA. But when I point out their hypocrisy I'm in the wrong because it's a topic you disagree with?
Just because I critiscize them on a lot of fronts doesn’t mean I do it blindly. I personally don’t really see hypocrisy here, there’s more lesbian couples in TS4 pre-mades, so what? EA/Maxis claims to be a company that stands behind diversity, they are doing just that, in their very corporate way to try and get a bigger audience to play their games.
Why else point out for instance that your post had a lot of likes on tumblr from other gay people?
To illustrate that the responses in this thread are not indicative of the general consensus, and to prove that isn't some fringe "LOOK AT ME AND VALIDATE ME!" type of thread by someone with too much time on their hands but something that many people have noticed and feel disappointed by.
I'm pretty sure, looking at your post history, you champion criticism of EA. But when I point out their hypocrisy I'm in the wrong because it's a topic you disagree with?
Just because I critiscize them on a lot of fronts doesn’t mean I do it blindly. I personally don’t really see hypocrisy here, there’s more lesbian couples in TS4 pre-mades, so what? EA/Maxis claims to be a company that stands behind diversity, they are doing just that, in their very corporate way to try and get a bigger audience to play their games.
It's absolutely hypocrisy to claim to stand behind the LGBT community and then only do so for a fraction of it, and to do so in a safe, socially acceptable way. It's extremely insulting that they only include gay characters as stereotypical caricatures, and that they are not deemed worthy enough to advertise their gameshow or to appear on the games' boxart.
The erasure of gay male couples and archaic representation of them is DISGUSTING and I will continue to call them out on it regardless of how much it seems to upset you.
And the fact that they OVER-represented female/female couples in the latest EP is just like pouring salt in the wound. There are four families in Eco Lifestyle and half of them are lesbian couples. This feels ludicrous and why people claim they are virtue-signalling (but in a safe way, as the backlash to F/F couples would never be as bad as to M/M couples).
Ea can put as little, or many representations as they want. It's their game! No one is entitled to representation on a fictional work.You can suggest, and want more.
There is some kind of hostility pointed towards the original poster here where all he wanted was a representation of gay male in premade families, you all can disagree without being hostile or attacking him though, just saying, as a Bi man myself i dont really care about premade gay male being added or not being added, im already being represented either way.
Ea can put as little, or many representations as they want. It's their game! No one is entitled to representation on a fictional work.You can suggest, and want more.
2nd this, and I fall back on my previous statement they could have not even bothered to put a gay couple to begin with but they actually did, EVEN letting them be in a commercial.
Besides, who really cares about pre-mades? I hardly play them, I focus on my sims that I create...shouldn't you do the same?
And again, they can't please everyone and the fact that they created a couple and had them be in a commercial is saying something.
There is some kind of hostility pointed towards the original poster here where all he wanted was a representation of gay male in premade families, you all can disagree without being hostile or attacking him though, just saying, as a Bi man myself i dont really care about premade gay male being added or not being added, im already being represented either way.
OP I think you're correct in that there are not as many male couples as there are female couples in TS4 (or other iterations).
I stand by my believe that this didn't happen intentionally.
I think the majority of these pre-mades are actually made by female devs. I didn't count all the individuals in the households, but I have a feeling that there are generally more females than males.
The neighborhoods are quite small, attire and hairstyles for females is more extensive than for males, so I think it's one way to show off the female hairstyles and dresses of a new pack. I believe TS4's fanbase is largely female, (including a lot of lesbians??).
Girls may be quicker to create female couples than males couples. Because it's what they know best.
Maybe for Brindleton Bay these lady devs figured, 'hey, we'd like a gay couple, let's give them a cute little dog as their baby!' (since it's for Cats & Dogs).' I can hear them giggle as they call these guys Brent and Brant. This thought process could be regarded as innocent or completely ignorant, whichever way you'd like to look at it. We just don't know who created them.
I think the pre-made creation process is quite casual and I doubt it's being regulated by anyone higher-up, just like some of those terrible pre-made builds....I mean if I had to supervise that stuff...
Maybe that will change after numerous discussions like this. I really hope it will for those who need to see a fair representation of themselves.
I'm all for it if it helps the community.
I honestly thought the forums would be more open to discussion and less "everything you say offends me" than Tumblr. What a shame that this turned out to be the opposite of that.
Thank you for proving my point, however. Everyone else is entitled to have an opinion but I should just "put up and shut up." There is a really sinister tone lurking behind some of the replies to this thread. It's a mixture of ridiculing and downright disgust that I should even be given the space to broach this discussion.
Just because something doesn't effect you, does not mean that is non-existent. I sure hope that in the future, when one of you have something you want to say, no one else ridicules you for it.
I presented my points thoroughly and respectfully, and asked others to do the same; or pass by this thread. What shame that others could not extend this courtesy back. The opening post of this thread shows the disparity between the representation of male and female same-sex couples, and that is not up for debate. Gay couples are not considered the "right look" to advertise this game, and when gay Sims are included, they are done so in a monolithic and stereotypical way. I will continue to call this out for as long as it still happens.
Eh, I think there's always room for growth but they're getting there. One of my favorite parts about the Sims is that same-sex couples have always been a thing, it's never really been questioned it's just always been an option for anyone who wanted it.
Also looking at some of the comments some people seem to be being really unnecessarily cruel and aggressive for absolutely no reason. It's a reasonable thing to be disappointed about, just because it's not an issue that bothers you doesn't mean it's not a valid concern. Obviously you can make your own townies but that's not the same representation as it just being there already in the game. I'm hoping they'll start to add more same-sex male couples in the near future because one in the entire game really isn't much.
Also hoping they'll do the same with different ethnicities aswell, so far pretty much all the pre-mades are either white, black or pacific. There isn't really any other ethnicities. I think theres 3? Asian sims built in (the fengs and the spencer kim lewis girl) and that's it.
I get rid of all the pre-built Sims and make my own. I've kept the Delgatos and the Sulani couples though as I like them. Why don't Simmers do it for themselves or is it too much trouble? After the 6 plus years I've got over 70 families and adding and reclothing those all the time.
I honestly thought the forums would be more open to discussion and less "everything you say offends me" than Tumblr. What a shame that this turned out to be the opposite of that.
Thank you for proving my point, however. Everyone else is entitled to have an opinion but I should just "put up and shut up." There is a really sinister tone lurking behind some of the replies to this thread. It's a mixture of ridiculing and downright disgust that I should even be given the space to broach this discussion.
Just because something doesn't effect you, does not mean that is non-existent. I sure hope that in the future, when one of you have something you want to say, no one else ridicules you for it.
I presented my points thoroughly and respectfully, and asked others to do the same; or pass by this thread. What shame that others could not extend this courtesy back. The opening post of this thread shows the disparity between the representation of male and female same-sex couples, and that is not up for debate. Gay couples are not considered the "right look" to advertise this game, and when gay Sims are included, they are done so in a monolithic and stereotypical way. I will continue to call this out for as long as it still happens.
Dont let that discourage you to voicing your opinion, there will be always a mob mentality anywhere and this forum is not an exception
God, I hate how people are using the hibiscus emoji to represent curse words. Is this a new trend? The internet is really the pits of humanity.
They aren’t doing anything the forum is doing it.
Perhaps they should familiarise themselves with the forum rules then and start adhering to them.
that made me giggle because i typed something the other night and got those flowers ..not sure what i said but i don't use words unwise to choose in a public forum ...and i sadly was unsure what got removed ...to the op of this thread ...must say this is an interesting topic
Also looking at some of the comments some people seem to be being really unnecessarily cruel and aggressive for absolutely no reason. It's a reasonable thing to be disappointed about, just because it's not an issue that bothers you doesn't mean it's not a valid concern. Obviously you can make your own townies but that's not the same representation as it just being there already in the game. I'm hoping they'll start to add more same-sex male couples in the near future because one in the entire game really isn't much
Thanks for saying that. Like I've said before, if they didn't have any pre-made same-sex couples at all I wouldn't have caused a stink or accused them of anything. But they've opened themselves up to this discussion with pushing inclusion and being vocally pro-LGBT, and the disparity just feels a bit sad given their history and coming to expect more this franchise than from others.
I literally asked people to have a respectful debate or to move along. The reaction to this thread seems disproportionately hostile.
I am not bullying or shaming or forcing anyone to do anything and I do not have a problem with lesbians - which are all things that have been thrown at me. I literally was just sharing my perspective and what I had found (which I had previously discussed with a friend who agreed with me), and felt comfortable doing so when this franchise and community is usually so open.
My problem isn't people disagreeing with me but it's the tone that some people have that seems to infer that I'm somehow stupid or hysterical to have that view, and that I shouldn't even be afforded the time of day to share it.
I am going to say this again. You don't need EA to cater to you and your request you can make them yourself. This is about creativity and if you have none I am sorry but I don't see a problem with the pre mades and how they are represented. You are being a tad overly sensitive over the topic to. If I had a problem with how sims were represented I would be making them myself I certainly don't need EA to make sims for my own game. The game is meant to be a creative platform to do as you please. That is what EA has done for you beyond that you can create whoever you want. I also haven't been hostile towards you this is just your opinion. You have been hostile towards others just for sharing their opinions.
Just because something doesn't effect you, does not mean that is non-existent. I sure hope that in the future, when one of you have something you want to say, no one else ridicules you for it.
This is a really good point that I wish more people understood. While I don't use premades and thus this issue doesn't affect me - I can still empathize with your wants and support them. Having more gay male premades hurts no one - having more dark skin tones hurts no one - and these are simple requests so I'm confused (well not entirely) as to why there is so much snark and pushback against harmless mentions of diversity.
Also looking at some of the comments some people seem to be being really unnecessarily cruel and aggressive for absolutely no reason. It's a reasonable thing to be disappointed about, just because it's not an issue that bothers you doesn't mean it's not a valid concern. Obviously you can make your own townies but that's not the same representation as it just being there already in the game. I'm hoping they'll start to add more same-sex male couples in the near future because one in the entire game really isn't much
Thanks for saying that. Like I've said before, if they didn't have any pre-made same-sex couples at all I wouldn't have caused a stink or accused them of anything. But they've opened themselves up to this discussion with pushing inclusion and being vocally pro-LGBT, and the disparity just feels a bit sad given their history and coming to expect more this franchise than from others.
I literally asked people to have a respectful debate or to move along. The reaction to this thread seems disproportionately hostile.
I am not bullying or shaming or forcing anyone to do anything and I do not have a problem with lesbians - which are all things that have been thrown at me. I literally was just sharing my perspective and what I had found (which I had previously discussed with a friend who agreed with me), and felt comfortable doing so when this franchise and community is usually so open.
My problem isn't people disagreeing with me but it's the tone that some people have that seems to infer that I'm somehow stupid or hysterical to have that view, and that I shouldn't even be afforded the time of day to share it.
last time I am gonna post here, correct me if I am wrong but you actually told someone above to not bother commenting if they weren't bringing anything in the conversation.
You can't cherry pick who can comment on your thread because they agree and not allow people who disagree.
Again, make your own sims, no one is stopping you.
This post is hard for me to write because I am a very shy and conflict avoidant person, but I have been coming back over and over to this thread, feeling frustrated, wanting to say something, and leaving again feeling ashamed of myself for being too cowardly to speak up.
The OP's first post that started this thread was very well thought out, respectfully worded, backed up by actual evidence, and made one basic request of the game developers: Please consider adding some more gay male couples who aren't necessarily hot young men with no kids. This seems like a completely reasonable request and legitimate feedback. Since this is the feedback section of the forum, this is exactly where such a request belongs.
From things the OP has said in subsequent posts, it looks to me like this request is not something thought of on a whim, but rather something born out of a lifetime of frustration at feeling excluded and ridiculed in all forms of mainstream media. As someone who got bullied badly in my younger days, I can relate to this frustration, and seeing the responses of others here hurts me.
Compared to a lot of things that players have asked for (such as an overhaul of the personality system, babies that aren't simple objects, or cars that can actually be driven on the roads) the OPs request is an extremely simple one from a technical standpoint and would be very easy for the developers to do. It could simply be done as part of any upcoming pack that has a world needing premade families. Making families to populate the new worlds is something that gets done anyway as part of producing an expansion pack. So it would not take away resources or time from developing other aspects of the game.
The level of hostility in response to this request seems out of proportion to me. A lot of posts have been trying to convince the OP that he shouldn't be asking for what he wants because he can do it himself. But this is the feedback section of the forum. This is where people are supposed to ask for what they want. It especially puzzles me why the reaction has been so negative since many posters who are arguing with him here have also claimed that they mostly ignore the premades. If the premade sims aren't important to you, why does it matter what sort of premade sims someone else is asking for?
I probably won't post much or anything more on this thread, even in response to anything said to me, because it's just very hard for me to get involved in discussions where I feel vulnerable. But I likely will still be reading it. Please think about why you feel the need to disagree with the OPs request and how you go about stating that disagreement.
I believe that people in so called free political systems are not aware that Sims 4 is also sold in countries where there are ultra strict laws and EA has to be very discreet about what it puts in the game, no matter what EA might say on it's Twitter feed.
I think we should let those people in those countries still be able to play Sims without the game being banned and let all of us make the Sims we want for ourselves in the game in privacy.
Just because something doesn't effect you, does not mean that is non-existent. I sure hope that in the future, when one of you have something you want to say, no one else ridicules you for it.
This is a really good point that I wish more people understood. While I don't use premades and thus this issue doesn't affect me - I can still empathize with your wants and support them. Having more gay male premades hurts no one - having more dark skin tones hurts no one - and these are simple requests so I'm confused (well not entirely) as to why there is so much snark and pushback against harmless mentions of diversity.
Best of luck.
Thank you. The response to the darker skin tone fixing/repairing was disgusting to watch and I did comment on that thread. I'm not going to compare the two comments because they are vastly different and this is a lot more trivial than that, but there's a common theme of a lack of being able to empathise with someone else's view/struggles.
Comments
I really didn’t put words on your mouth though. It simply was what it seemed to me. Why else point out for instance that your post had a lot of likes on tumblr from other gay people?
And how did I contradict myself? Also, what is an “Angry Gay”?
To illustrate that the responses in this thread are not indicative of the general consensus, and to prove that this isn't just some fringe "LOOK AT ME AND VALIDATE ME!" type of thread by someone with too much time on their hands but something that many people have noticed and feel disappointed by.
I'm pretty sure, looking at your post history, you champion criticism of EA. But when I point out their hypocrisy I'm in the wrong because it's a topic you disagree with?
I want to make sure this forum remains clean and suitable for all, but thanks for the advice!
Just because I critiscize them on a lot of fronts doesn’t mean I do it blindly. I personally don’t really see hypocrisy here, there’s more lesbian couples in TS4 pre-mades, so what? EA/Maxis claims to be a company that stands behind diversity, they are doing just that, in their very corporate way to try and get a bigger audience to play their games.
It's absolutely hypocrisy to claim to stand behind the LGBT community and then only do so for a fraction of it, and to do so in a safe, socially acceptable way. It's extremely insulting that they only include gay characters as stereotypical caricatures, and that they are not deemed worthy enough to advertise their gameshow or to appear on the games' boxart.
The erasure of gay male couples and archaic representation of them is DISGUSTING and I will continue to call them out on it regardless of how much it seems to upset you.
dude what's your problem with lesbians?
2nd this, and I fall back on my previous statement they could have not even bothered to put a gay couple to begin with but they actually did, EVEN letting them be in a commercial.
Besides, who really cares about pre-mades? I hardly play them, I focus on my sims that I create...shouldn't you do the same?
And again, they can't please everyone and the fact that they created a couple and had them be in a commercial is saying something.
Thanks for saying this.
Maybe you shouldn't tell people how to post, it's the forum that is doing that, the posters had nothing to do with censoring. Why blame them?
I stand by my believe that this didn't happen intentionally.
I think the majority of these pre-mades are actually made by female devs. I didn't count all the individuals in the households, but I have a feeling that there are generally more females than males.
The neighborhoods are quite small, attire and hairstyles for females is more extensive than for males, so I think it's one way to show off the female hairstyles and dresses of a new pack. I believe TS4's fanbase is largely female, (including a lot of lesbians??).
Girls may be quicker to create female couples than males couples. Because it's what they know best.
Maybe for Brindleton Bay these lady devs figured, 'hey, we'd like a gay couple, let's give them a cute little dog as their baby!' (since it's for Cats & Dogs).' I can hear them giggle as they call these guys Brent and Brant. This thought process could be regarded as innocent or completely ignorant, whichever way you'd like to look at it. We just don't know who created them.
I think the pre-made creation process is quite casual and I doubt it's being regulated by anyone higher-up, just like some of those terrible pre-made builds....I mean if I had to supervise that stuff...
Maybe that will change after numerous discussions like this. I really hope it will for those who need to see a fair representation of themselves.
I'm all for it if it helps the community.
Thank you for proving my point, however. Everyone else is entitled to have an opinion but I should just "put up and shut up." There is a really sinister tone lurking behind some of the replies to this thread. It's a mixture of ridiculing and downright disgust that I should even be given the space to broach this discussion.
Just because something doesn't effect you, does not mean that is non-existent. I sure hope that in the future, when one of you have something you want to say, no one else ridicules you for it.
I presented my points thoroughly and respectfully, and asked others to do the same; or pass by this thread. What shame that others could not extend this courtesy back. The opening post of this thread shows the disparity between the representation of male and female same-sex couples, and that is not up for debate. Gay couples are not considered the "right look" to advertise this game, and when gay Sims are included, they are done so in a monolithic and stereotypical way. I will continue to call this out for as long as it still happens.
Also looking at some of the comments some people seem to be being really unnecessarily cruel and aggressive for absolutely no reason. It's a reasonable thing to be disappointed about, just because it's not an issue that bothers you doesn't mean it's not a valid concern. Obviously you can make your own townies but that's not the same representation as it just being there already in the game. I'm hoping they'll start to add more same-sex male couples in the near future because one in the entire game really isn't much.
Also hoping they'll do the same with different ethnicities aswell, so far pretty much all the pre-mades are either white, black or pacific. There isn't really any other ethnicities. I think theres 3? Asian sims built in (the fengs and the spencer kim lewis girl) and that's it.
Dont let that discourage you to voicing your opinion, there will be always a mob mentality anywhere and this forum is not an exception
that made me giggle because i typed something the other night and got those flowers ..not sure what i said but i don't use words unwise to choose in a public forum ...and i sadly was unsure what got removed ...to the op of this thread ...must say this is an interesting topic
Thanks for saying that. Like I've said before, if they didn't have any pre-made same-sex couples at all I wouldn't have caused a stink or accused them of anything. But they've opened themselves up to this discussion with pushing inclusion and being vocally pro-LGBT, and the disparity just feels a bit sad given their history and coming to expect more this franchise than from others.
I literally asked people to have a respectful debate or to move along. The reaction to this thread seems disproportionately hostile.
I am not bullying or shaming or forcing anyone to do anything and I do not have a problem with lesbians - which are all things that have been thrown at me. I literally was just sharing my perspective and what I had found (which I had previously discussed with a friend who agreed with me), and felt comfortable doing so when this franchise and community is usually so open.
My problem isn't people disagreeing with me but it's the tone that some people have that seems to infer that I'm somehow stupid or hysterical to have that view, and that I shouldn't even be afforded the time of day to share it.
This is a really good point that I wish more people understood. While I don't use premades and thus this issue doesn't affect me - I can still empathize with your wants and support them. Having more gay male premades hurts no one - having more dark skin tones hurts no one - and these are simple requests so I'm confused (well not entirely) as to why there is so much snark and pushback against harmless mentions of diversity.
Best of luck.
last time I am gonna post here, correct me if I am wrong but you actually told someone above to not bother commenting if they weren't bringing anything in the conversation.
You can't cherry pick who can comment on your thread because they agree and not allow people who disagree.
Again, make your own sims, no one is stopping you.
The OP's first post that started this thread was very well thought out, respectfully worded, backed up by actual evidence, and made one basic request of the game developers: Please consider adding some more gay male couples who aren't necessarily hot young men with no kids. This seems like a completely reasonable request and legitimate feedback. Since this is the feedback section of the forum, this is exactly where such a request belongs.
From things the OP has said in subsequent posts, it looks to me like this request is not something thought of on a whim, but rather something born out of a lifetime of frustration at feeling excluded and ridiculed in all forms of mainstream media. As someone who got bullied badly in my younger days, I can relate to this frustration, and seeing the responses of others here hurts me.
Compared to a lot of things that players have asked for (such as an overhaul of the personality system, babies that aren't simple objects, or cars that can actually be driven on the roads) the OPs request is an extremely simple one from a technical standpoint and would be very easy for the developers to do. It could simply be done as part of any upcoming pack that has a world needing premade families. Making families to populate the new worlds is something that gets done anyway as part of producing an expansion pack. So it would not take away resources or time from developing other aspects of the game.
The level of hostility in response to this request seems out of proportion to me. A lot of posts have been trying to convince the OP that he shouldn't be asking for what he wants because he can do it himself. But this is the feedback section of the forum. This is where people are supposed to ask for what they want. It especially puzzles me why the reaction has been so negative since many posters who are arguing with him here have also claimed that they mostly ignore the premades. If the premade sims aren't important to you, why does it matter what sort of premade sims someone else is asking for?
I probably won't post much or anything more on this thread, even in response to anything said to me, because it's just very hard for me to get involved in discussions where I feel vulnerable. But I likely will still be reading it. Please think about why you feel the need to disagree with the OPs request and how you go about stating that disagreement.
I think we should let those people in those countries still be able to play Sims without the game being banned and let all of us make the Sims we want for ourselves in the game in privacy.
Just my opinion.
Thank you.