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Lack of Long-term gameplay in TS4

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  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 31,786 Member
    edited June 29
    @Cinebar wrote: »
    @Cinebar wrote: »
    I'm a rotational player and always have been. I can tell anyone all these Sims are the very same. It doesn't matter if they added ten more trait slots they would still all react, think and be the same. I'm not one to finish nor complete aspirations anymore, did that in TS2 for a time but then decided no, I play my way, they will dance to my tune and the beat of my drum. I don't need a long time aspiration goal what I need is differences and diversity in reactions, consequences, nuances, conversations, memories, depth to their personalities, reasons why they care or don't care. Then it would be worth it to build ten different Sims and play them in a world and rotate between them. But if they are all going to like the stereo, all like the TV, all like the pc, all like basketball, all like whatever, or all get uncomfortable no matter the circumstances and or all want to hug somebody then there is no point in me playing at all. The problems to me is the Sim personality. Do they ever get nervous? Scared? hate anyone? remember anyone? remember Summer Holiday just insulted them yesterday? No, they know nothing. Know they are married? No they will flirt with anyone. Just pixels people dress up and scream oh look, I'm so diverse.

    Exactly. There is Aesthetic Diversity. No Personality Diversity.

    This game doesn't even have a proper graveyard. It is so shallow I have no idea why people keep buying it when they have three other games that meet the life simulation definitions. This one is the DLC game, more for less content, and look over here at the new shiny....and then throw it down and demand more DLC.

    I never understood the absence of cemeteries from the moment ghosts where Introduced. It’s a basegame element that should have been there from the start.
    If there are baby bassinets, there should be mausoleums.

    Sims should START someplace and END UP someplace.

    As a player I want to know where the urn of the deceased sims went. Keep all the ectoplasms organized.

    It is probably too late for most players to realise this game isn't a life simulator. We all keep hoping it will be one, one day, but if you look at it we see the devs don't even claim it is one. They say it's a story teller, and so if someone wants to delete a Sim or grab one from the gallery and plop it into a household they can...that isn't a life simulator, it's a story teller. Probably why there aren't any lots to bury the dead since we can just add and subtract with a click. Even as a story teller game where you would just pose and use an object to create a scene (Anyone remember the game, Movies?) and or cause a reaction so you can take a screen shot, it is a poor one since the social worker isn't even a Sim.

    I could go on forever, but I have said all this for six years, hoping they get the point and go back to building life simulators. What kind of life simulator doesn't even have cars, what world of reality is that? Or graveyards, or a representation of a person as a Social worker, or consequences for the choices, or death from illness and or diseases, and or choices people make in real life as which gender they will date and marry, or where there is no crime that results in jail time, or where evilSim is good and goodSim is evil, it's a Utopia, that doesn't exist and TS4 doesn't even do that very well, either.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • Louise_G0325Louise_G0325 Posts: 934 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    @Cinebar wrote: »
    @Cinebar wrote: »
    I'm a rotational player and always have been. I can tell anyone all these Sims are the very same. It doesn't matter if they added ten more trait slots they would still all react, think and be the same. I'm not one to finish nor complete aspirations anymore, did that in TS2 for a time but then decided no, I play my way, they will dance to my tune and the beat of my drum. I don't need a long time aspiration goal what I need is differences and diversity in reactions, consequences, nuances, conversations, memories, depth to their personalities, reasons why they care or don't care. Then it would be worth it to build ten different Sims and play them in a world and rotate between them. But if they are all going to like the stereo, all like the TV, all like the pc, all like basketball, all like whatever, or all get uncomfortable no matter the circumstances and or all want to hug somebody then there is no point in me playing at all. The problems to me is the Sim personality. Do they ever get nervous? Scared? hate anyone? remember anyone? remember Summer Holiday just insulted them yesterday? No, they know nothing. Know they are married? No they will flirt with anyone. Just pixels people dress up and scream oh look, I'm so diverse.

    Exactly. There is Aesthetic Diversity. No Personality Diversity.

    This game doesn't even have a proper graveyard. It is so shallow I have no idea why people keep buying it when they have three other games that meet the life simulation definitions. This one is the DLC game, more for less content, and look over here at the new shiny....and then throw it down and demand more DLC.

    I never understood the absence of cemeteries from the moment ghosts where Introduced. It’s a basegame element that should have been there from the start.
    If there are baby bassinets, there should be mausoleums.

    Sims should START someplace and END UP someplace.

    As a player I want to know where the urn of the deceased sims went. Keep all the ectoplasms organized.

    It is probably too late for most players to realise this game isn't a life simulator. We all keep hoping it will be one, one day, but if you look at it we see the devs don't even claim it is one. They say it's a story teller, and so if someone wants to delete a Sim or grab one from the gallery and plop it into a household they can...that isn't a life simulator, it's a story teller. Probably why there aren't any lots to bury the dead since we can just add and subtract with a click. Even as a story teller game where you would just pose and use an object to create a scene (Anyone remember the game, Movies?) and or cause a reaction so you can take a screen shot, it is a poor one since the social worker isn't even a Sim.

    I could go on forever, but I have said all this for six years, hoping they get the point and go back to building life simulators. What kind of life simulator doesn't even have cars, what world of reality is that? Or graveyards, or a representation of a person as a Social worker, or consequences for the choices, or death from illness and or diseases, and or choices people make in real life as which gender they will date and marry, or where there is no crime that results in jail time, or where evilSim is good and goodSim is evil, it's a Utopia, that doesn't exist and TS4 doesn't even do that very well, either.

    This is very true. Just about every time someone asks a dev why aspects that are more challenging/require effort/gritty/etc haven't been added to a pack or the BG, they reply that it "could interfere with the stories simmers want to tell." They seem to believe that every simmer is making a machinima, and don't want the game to throw anything that they haven't elaborately planned their way. Influencers streaming their games are a minority in The Sims. When I play with a story in mind, I still make smaller decisions based on how my sims react - sometimes I even change the direction of the story when a sim's reaction inspires me and feels right. While it is important that the game respects your authority over the sims' actions, it is a ridiculous way of reasoning to eliminate all spontaneity. That is also why toggles, and many of them, (SHOULD) exist.
  • CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 218 Member
    edited June 29
    @Cinebar wrote: »
    @Cinebar wrote: »
    @Cinebar wrote: »
    I'm a rotational player and always have been. I can tell anyone all these Sims are the very same. It doesn't matter if they added ten more trait slots they would still all react, think and be the same. I'm not one to finish nor complete aspirations anymore, did that in TS2 for a time but then decided no, I play my way, they will dance to my tune and the beat of my drum. I don't need a long time aspiration goal what I need is differences and diversity in reactions, consequences, nuances, conversations, memories, depth to their personalities, reasons why they care or don't care. Then it would be worth it to build ten different Sims and play them in a world and rotate between them. But if they are all going to like the stereo, all like the TV, all like the pc, all like basketball, all like whatever, or all get uncomfortable no matter the circumstances and or all want to hug somebody then there is no point in me playing at all. The problems to me is the Sim personality. Do they ever get nervous? Scared? hate anyone? remember anyone? remember Summer Holiday just insulted them yesterday? No, they know nothing. Know they are married? No they will flirt with anyone. Just pixels people dress up and scream oh look, I'm so diverse.

    Exactly. There is Aesthetic Diversity. No Personality Diversity.

    This game doesn't even have a proper graveyard. It is so shallow I have no idea why people keep buying it when they have three other games that meet the life simulation definitions. This one is the DLC game, more for less content, and look over here at the new shiny....and then throw it down and demand more DLC.

    I never understood the absence of cemeteries from the moment ghosts where Introduced. It’s a basegame element that should have been there from the start.
    If there are baby bassinets, there should be mausoleums.

    Sims should START someplace and END UP someplace.

    As a player I want to know where the urn of the deceased sims went. Keep all the ectoplasms organized.

    It is probably too late for most players to realise this game isn't a life simulator. We all keep hoping it will be one, one day, but if you look at it we see the devs don't even claim it is one. They say it's a story teller, and so if someone wants to delete a Sim or grab one from the gallery and plop it into a household they can...that isn't a life simulator, it's a story teller. Probably why there aren't any lots to bury the dead since we can just add and subtract with a click. Even as a story teller game where you would just pose and use an object to create a scene (Anyone remember the game, Movies?) and or cause a reaction so you can take a screen shot, it is a poor one since the social worker isn't even a Sim.

    I could go on forever, but I have said all this for six years, hoping they get the point and go back to building life simulators. What kind of life simulator doesn't even have cars, what world of reality is that? Or graveyards, or a representation of a person as a Social worker, or consequences for the choices, or death from illness and or diseases, and or choices people make in real life as which gender they will date and marry, or where there is no crime that results in jail time, or where evilSim is good and goodSim is evil, it's a Utopia, that doesn't exist and TS4 doesn't even do that very well, either.

    The sims as a storytelling tool is great, but to sacrifice the (life) Simulator aspect for it is -in my opinion- poor design.
    I Personally don’t think simulation has to be über realistic. The Sims is famous for its quirkiness. But at the moment it does simulate very little, except for basic human movement, eating, sleeping, using the Jax, weather, school, hobby and career options.

    The Sim’s emotions are caricatures of that emotion, too dramatic for my taste, and they ultimately have no meaningful consequences.

    These poor sims really, really, really have no clue. I actually feel sorry for them.

    I was looking at some of the game mechanics today and I was reminded about the fact that, outside of the set rules of a particular mechanism, the interaction between two sims is utterly nonsensical:

    My sim sits in his room. He rings his friend. As he is talking to the friend, she happens to spawn at his door.
    There is no phone in her hand. She is not talking to him. She knocks on his door (give us a proper doorbell please) and stands there idle until he finishes the phone call with HER. I clearly heard a voice at the other end of the line, even if the girl at his door has her mouth shut during that conversation. She just looks around in that confused manner as if she just spawned into existence. Oh I forgot. She did.

    He invites her in. When he meets her she reacts in a way as if they didn’t even have a phone conversation. Her manner is indifferent, she then turns on the tv and breaks the 🌺🌺🌺🌺 thing.

    The interaction between them that HE experienced did in no way exist to HER, even if they were both at the same location!

    This is where I really have a problem with TS4. My immersion is constantly shattered to bits because of these flaws.

    As far as I can remember, in TS3 this problem did not occur. When two sims had a phone conversation in two separate locations, I could move my camera back and forth and see both of them with a phone in their hand, chatting to one another. If my sim rang another sim, I could move my camera to that sim and HEAR the phone ring. They would usually pick up the phone to engage in the conversation.
    Someone correct me if I’m wrong. I recall being quite impressed by this.

    The reason it doesn’t work that way In TS4 is because the World mechanics do not support this behavior.

    Location means nothing to sims.
    Sims mean nothing to sims.

    Simnature.gif
  • NationalPokedexNationalPokedex Posts: 419 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    @Cinebar wrote: »
    @Cinebar wrote: »
    I'm a rotational player and always have been. I can tell anyone all these Sims are the very same. It doesn't matter if they added ten more trait slots they would still all react, think and be the same. I'm not one to finish nor complete aspirations anymore, did that in TS2 for a time but then decided no, I play my way, they will dance to my tune and the beat of my drum. I don't need a long time aspiration goal what I need is differences and diversity in reactions, consequences, nuances, conversations, memories, depth to their personalities, reasons why they care or don't care. Then it would be worth it to build ten different Sims and play them in a world and rotate between them. But if they are all going to like the stereo, all like the TV, all like the pc, all like basketball, all like whatever, or all get uncomfortable no matter the circumstances and or all want to hug somebody then there is no point in me playing at all. The problems to me is the Sim personality. Do they ever get nervous? Scared? hate anyone? remember anyone? remember Summer Holiday just insulted them yesterday? No, they know nothing. Know they are married? No they will flirt with anyone. Just pixels people dress up and scream oh look, I'm so diverse.

    Exactly. There is Aesthetic Diversity. No Personality Diversity.

    This game doesn't even have a proper graveyard. It is so shallow I have no idea why people keep buying it when they have three other games that meet the life simulation definitions. This one is the DLC game, more for less content, and look over here at the new shiny....and then throw it down and demand more DLC.

    I never understood the absence of cemeteries from the moment ghosts where Introduced. It’s a basegame element that should have been there from the start.
    If there are baby bassinets, there should be mausoleums.

    Sims should START someplace and END UP someplace.

    As a player I want to know where the urn of the deceased sims went. Keep all the ectoplasms organized.

    It is probably too late for most players to realise this game isn't a life simulator. We all keep hoping it will be one, one day, but if you look at it we see the devs don't even claim it is one. They say it's a story teller, and so if someone wants to delete a Sim or grab one from the gallery and plop it into a household they can...that isn't a life simulator, it's a story teller. Probably why there aren't any lots to bury the dead since we can just add and subtract with a click. Even as a story teller game where you would just pose and use an object to create a scene (Anyone remember the game, Movies?) and or cause a reaction so you can take a screen shot, it is a poor one since the social worker isn't even a Sim.

    I could go on forever, but I have said all this for six years, hoping they get the point and go back to building life simulators. What kind of life simulator doesn't even have cars, what world of reality is that? Or graveyards, or a representation of a person as a Social worker, or consequences for the choices, or death from illness and or diseases, and or choices people make in real life as which gender they will date and marry, or where there is no crime that results in jail time, or where evilSim is good and goodSim is evil, it's a Utopia, that doesn't exist and TS4 doesn't even do that very well, either.

    Somehow referring to it as storytelling tool, while not providing a ton of tools makes it worse. For the people who want things like functioning cemeteries or cars, well they're kind of out of luck with their storytelling because they don't have it. Like, no matter which way someone describes TS4, it still will fall short of that title. Life simulator, dollhouse simulator, storytelling tool. There's still so many things missing from the game that makes any one of those concepts seem poorly executed.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 525 Member
    I don't know guys Storytelling worked fine in The Sims 2. You just had to be aware what personality, turn ons and so on you gave to the sims so they like each other (or vice versa if you didn't want them to like each other). I don't know how this is an excuse when The Sims 2 is a great example that storytelling still works even with its "interfering" design.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 3,416 Member
    I don't know guys Storytelling worked fine in The Sims 2. You just had to be aware what personality, turn ons and so on you gave to the sims so they like each other (or vice versa if you didn't want them to like each other). I don't know how this is an excuse when The Sims 2 is a great example that storytelling still works even with its "interfering" design.

    Sometimes a storyline relies on totally incompatible sims discovering they like each other anyways even though they wouldn't normally be "their type".
  • DuvelinaDuvelina Posts: 786 Member
    Even if there was no chemistry, you could still match sims up though. It was just harder because they were incompatible. I don't think that's unrealistic either.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,797 Member
    edited June 29
    The Sims 4 is the only one of the games that can kind of be referred to as a story telling game. You almost have to play it that way for it to be enjoyable. When I played the other games I didn’t load the game with any idea of what I wanted to happen, who I was going to be playing, etc. Those story telling elements were just inherently there and natural from how the simulation worked. There was never a need for me to explicitly create a story; I could alter the course of what was happening, but even without my input the game would craft a story on it’s own using a mixture of game mechanics and my input (like traits, or personalities).

    Sims 4 is such a lifeless game you have to create an entire narrative before you load into it and then basically use the game to animate that story. Some people can appreciate that, but I’m only willing to disassociate the gameplay so much to fit a story. Most of the time the story I think up just doesn’t translate into fun gameplay. Probably because I don’t daydream the kind of content this game actually has. The game being geared toward storytelling isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but this game does an awful job of it. You’re given a limited selection of tools, and a fairly unappealing assortment of content which leads to this game only being good at telling generic stereotype stories.
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 3,416 Member
    Duvelina wrote: »
    Even if there was no chemistry, you could still match sims up though. It was just harder because they were incompatible. I don't think that's unrealistic either.

    You could... BUT my particular stories (which I prewrite) called for it to not be hard and a quick connection. But anyways, it didn't work with my stories. I don't wnat any challenges in my game, my play style is easy, fun and relaxing with everyone happy 100% of the time and telling prewritten stories. Plus, SIms 2's UI (ugh with the horrible blue and cluttered loading screens)make it unenjoyable now too haha. Great animations, but just can't enjoy it anymore.)

    For me, Sims 4 is better in terms of long term play because I don't get bored of it, SIms 1-3 I get bored quick so can't play them long term.

    So the answer to the question is basically Yes, Sims 4 is good in terms of long term play... but not for everyone. Depends on play style.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 525 Member
    The problem with storytelling and making up your own stories in the Sims 4 is that they don't really play out on their own either. You really have to make an effort for your story to work and you have to actively set everything up and some things that are not possible to recreate from your ideas you have to sit there and imagine happened like going to a grocery store for example. Many times I want to create a couple that doesn't get along or families in a neighbourhood having a fight (a la Sims 2 Veronaville style) and make them incompatible with each other. However they never fight on their own, I have to actively choose "argue about..." and have to imagine they did in on their own because they don't get along.
    It's been fine so far but I hope with The Sims 5 they take everything a little further.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 3,416 Member
    The problem with storytelling and making up your own stories in the Sims 4 is that they don't really play out on their own either. You really have to make an effort for your story to work and you have to actively set everything up and some things that are not possible to recreate from your ideas you have to sit there and imagine happened like going to a grocery store for example. Many times I want to create a couple that doesn't get along or families in a neighbourhood having a fight (a la Sims 2 Veronaville style) and make them incompatible with each other. However they never fight on their own, I have to actively choose "argue about..." and have to imagine they did in on their own because they don't get along.
    It's been fine so far but I hope with The Sims 5 they take everything a little further.

    I don't for my story lines though. Maybe because my Stories never involve trips to grocery stores or arguements. But yes, I agree, it depends on the story you are telling. My stories are better with Sims 4, but they definitely might not all be. (That being said, I'd love grocery stores added anyways haha! Especially if we could own them and run them)
    THough Sims 4 Sims that don't like each other do argue and fight on their own. I did a supersim challenge once (hated it because I had to have them get the mischeif/criminal aspirations and I prefer my sims to only have good traits aspiratoins haha) and once I made and "enemy" they were constantly fighting on their own. (No mods for the challenge) I didn't enjoy that type of game pllay thoguh so stopped haha.
    I don't normally enjoy challenges BUT the 100 baby one was alot of fun since I love the babies and toddlers so much haha!

    I hope they take it further for you all in Sims 5 too
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,797 Member
    Duvelina wrote: »
    Even if there was no chemistry, you could still match sims up though. It was just harder because they were incompatible. I don't think that's unrealistic either.

    You could... BUT my particular stories (which I prewrite) called for it to not be hard and a quick connection. But anyways, it didn't work with my stories. I don't wnat any challenges in my game, my play style is easy, fun and relaxing with everyone happy 100% of the time and telling prewritten stories. Plus, SIms 2's UI (ugh with the horrible blue and cluttered loading screens)make it unenjoyable now too haha. Great animations, but just can't enjoy it anymore.)

    For me, Sims 4 is better in terms of long term play because I don't get bored of it, SIms 1-3 I get bored quick so can't play them long term.

    So the answer to the question is basically Yes, Sims 4 is good in terms of long term play... but not for everyone. Depends on play style.

    I wouldn’t call game mechanics and simulation a challenge, because that’s not what made any of those games challenging. They were just simulation games, the outcomes to your actions and your choices were the main appeal and eliminating that has led to where we are now. A subset of players who are unhappy with the game being stripped of it’s identity, and a subset of players happy that it was. EA messed up because they could have easily made a spin off game that catered to storytellers using the same engine, same designs, etc. Instead they forced their players to accept a different kind of game, and when they didn’t they got new players.

    If there is a Sims 5 they should focus on making a good simulation game first. They can turn off the AI and leave it a blank slate for players who want that, but making a blank slate and expecting everyone to settle has not been healthy for the community.
  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 525 Member
    I don't for my story lines though. Maybe because my Stories never involve trips to grocery stores or arguements. But yes, I agree, it depends on the story you are telling. My stories are better with Sims 4, but they definitely might not all be. (That being said, I'd love grocery stores added anyways haha! Especially if we could own them and run them)
    THough Sims 4 Sims that don't like each other do argue and fight on their own. I did a supersim challenge once (hated it because I had to have them get the mischeif/criminal aspirations and I prefer my sims to only have good traits aspiratoins haha) and once I made and "enemy" they were constantly fighting on their own. (No mods for the challenge) I didn't enjoy that type of game pllay thoguh so stopped haha.
    I don't normally enjoy challenges BUT the 100 baby one was alot of fun since I love the babies and toddlers so much haha!

    I hope they take it further for you all in Sims 5 too

    Yeah I'm all for The Sims 4 staying as it is. I do wish for a lot of development but I want that included in The Sims 5. The Sims 4 has become its own unique thing and I guess that should stay the way it is.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 3,416 Member
    Duvelina wrote: »
    Even if there was no chemistry, you could still match sims up though. It was just harder because they were incompatible. I don't think that's unrealistic either.

    You could... BUT my particular stories (which I prewrite) called for it to not be hard and a quick connection. But anyways, it didn't work with my stories. I don't wnat any challenges in my game, my play style is easy, fun and relaxing with everyone happy 100% of the time and telling prewritten stories. Plus, SIms 2's UI (ugh with the horrible blue and cluttered loading screens)make it unenjoyable now too haha. Great animations, but just can't enjoy it anymore.)

    For me, Sims 4 is better in terms of long term play because I don't get bored of it, SIms 1-3 I get bored quick so can't play them long term.

    So the answer to the question is basically Yes, Sims 4 is good in terms of long term play... but not for everyone. Depends on play style.

    I wouldn’t call game mechanics and simulation a challenge, because that’s not what made any of those games challenging. They were just simulation games, the outcomes to your actions and your choices were the main appeal and eliminating that has led to where we are now. A subset of players who are unhappy with the game being stripped of it’s identity, and a subset of players happy that it was. EA messed up because they could have easily made a spin off game that catered to storytellers using the same engine, same designs, etc. Instead they forced their players to accept a different kind of game, and when they didn’t they got new players.

    If there is a Sims 5 they should focus on making a good simulation game first. They can turn off the AI and leave it a blank slate for players who want that, but making a blank slate and expecting everyone to settle has not been healthy for the community.

    Those of us happy with it think EA improved upon it, not messed up. They didn't force anyone to accept a different kind of game because no one is forced to play the new game. They have different games, different styles, and people can play whichever they like best but no one is being forced into anything.

    But Honestly Sims 5 isn't the question here. The thread is about the long term play of Sims 4. And the answer stands the same. Yes, it's great for long term play, but not for everyone. For some it is, for some it isn't, depending on how they play.

    For a player such as myself, it's so great for long term play that there's probably not going to be any point in buying Sims 5 anyways since I'll be playing Sims 4 for another decade or two haha. So whatever the focus of Sims 5 is, it won't affect me.
  • CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 218 Member
    I don't know guys Storytelling worked fine in The Sims 2. You just had to be aware what personality, turn ons and so on you gave to the sims so they like each other (or vice versa if you didn't want them to like each other). I don't know how this is an excuse when The Sims 2 is a great example that storytelling still works even with its "interfering" design.

    I think in a way the mechanics for TS2 And TS3 are more complex, but the rules are much simpler and straight forward. Everything is contained and connected within that system. Whatever happens within that system makes sense because the rules that system has to follow are clear.

    In TS4 the core mechanics are simpler, but the rules are more complex. Within this simple system the complexity of rules starts to cause conflict resulting in a confused system in which nothing makes sense.

    In TS3 a Sim never begins to cycle from within a building. They teleport to the road already sitting on the bike. Then they start cycling. The rule is clear.

    In TS4,Anyone who has a pack installed that includes bicycles, may know that when a sim carries a bicycle in their inventory, they often start cycling from within any building. The animation is great and all, but they get on their bike inside the pub and start to cycle.

    It doesn’t make sense to get on your bike and start cycling from inside a pub. You must be completely hammered and out of your head to do that.

    But in TS4 the sims do because the rules aren’t clear. The Simple system doesn’t understand which rule to follow. So every sim acts drunk and clueless.

    I agree that it’s not an excuse that storytelling and life simulation can’t work together. I doubt that in TS4 The focus of gameplay has ever been on a combination of both at the very beginning.

    I believe it was to be a more elaborate version of The Sims Mobile.
    Simnature.gif
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 3,416 Member
    I don't for my story lines though. Maybe because my Stories never involve trips to grocery stores or arguements. But yes, I agree, it depends on the story you are telling. My stories are better with Sims 4, but they definitely might not all be. (That being said, I'd love grocery stores added anyways haha! Especially if we could own them and run them)
    THough Sims 4 Sims that don't like each other do argue and fight on their own. I did a supersim challenge once (hated it because I had to have them get the mischeif/criminal aspirations and I prefer my sims to only have good traits aspiratoins haha) and once I made and "enemy" they were constantly fighting on their own. (No mods for the challenge) I didn't enjoy that type of game pllay thoguh so stopped haha.
    I don't normally enjoy challenges BUT the 100 baby one was alot of fun since I love the babies and toddlers so much haha!

    I hope they take it further for you all in Sims 5 too

    Yeah I'm all for The Sims 4 staying as it is. I do wish for a lot of development but I want that included in The Sims 5. The Sims 4 has become its own unique thing and I guess that should stay the way it is.

    I hope Sims 5 is fantastic for all you that want a new game :)
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,797 Member
    edited June 29
    Duvelina wrote: »
    Even if there was no chemistry, you could still match sims up though. It was just harder because they were incompatible. I don't think that's unrealistic either.

    You could... BUT my particular stories (which I prewrite) called for it to not be hard and a quick connection. But anyways, it didn't work with my stories. I don't wnat any challenges in my game, my play style is easy, fun and relaxing with everyone happy 100% of the time and telling prewritten stories. Plus, SIms 2's UI (ugh with the horrible blue and cluttered loading screens)make it unenjoyable now too haha. Great animations, but just can't enjoy it anymore.)

    For me, Sims 4 is better in terms of long term play because I don't get bored of it, SIms 1-3 I get bored quick so can't play them long term.

    So the answer to the question is basically Yes, Sims 4 is good in terms of long term play... but not for everyone. Depends on play style.

    I wouldn’t call game mechanics and simulation a challenge, because that’s not what made any of those games challenging. They were just simulation games, the outcomes to your actions and your choices were the main appeal and eliminating that has led to where we are now. A subset of players who are unhappy with the game being stripped of it’s identity, and a subset of players happy that it was. EA messed up because they could have easily made a spin off game that catered to storytellers using the same engine, same designs, etc. Instead they forced their players to accept a different kind of game, and when they didn’t they got new players.

    If there is a Sims 5 they should focus on making a good simulation game first. They can turn off the AI and leave it a blank slate for players who want that, but making a blank slate and expecting everyone to settle has not been healthy for the community.

    Those of us happy with it think EA improved upon it, not messed up. They didn't force anyone to accept a different kind of game because no one is forced to play the new game. They have different games, different styles, and people can play whichever they like best but no one is being forced into anything.

    But Honestly Sims 5 isn't the question here. The thread is about the long term play of Sims 4. And the answer stands the same. Yes, it's great for long term play, but not for everyone. For some it is, for some it isn't, depending on how they play.

    For a player such as myself, it's so great for long term play that there's probably not going to be any point in buying Sims 5 anyways since I'll be playing Sims 4 for another decade or two haha. So whatever the focus of Sims 5 is, it won't affect me.

    I’m not here to debate, but Maxis didn’t spend all that time pre-release goading players into preordering and purchasing the game for nothing. Grant was pretty black and white about it, if no one buys this game there won’t be another one. His exact words. Well Sims 4 came super close to failure until EA put it on a constant discount and upped the Internet ads associated with it. So I’m glad you are happy with it, but they stripped the game of it’s identity and then had to discount it to get it to make money. So yes they did mess up. Now that they’ve brought on tons of new players who are content they may feel differently, but the actions of the studio prior to and immediately following release should make it obvious there were issues with the game being brought up by a significant number of players who were not happy with what they were seeing, hearing, or experiencing once it came out.

    The fact that 6 years later people are still around complaining about the same things should also tell you Maxis messed up in making all sorts of damage control promises they never intended on keeping.
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 3,416 Member
    Duvelina wrote: »
    Even if there was no chemistry, you could still match sims up though. It was just harder because they were incompatible. I don't think that's unrealistic either.

    You could... BUT my particular stories (which I prewrite) called for it to not be hard and a quick connection. But anyways, it didn't work with my stories. I don't wnat any challenges in my game, my play style is easy, fun and relaxing with everyone happy 100% of the time and telling prewritten stories. Plus, SIms 2's UI (ugh with the horrible blue and cluttered loading screens)make it unenjoyable now too haha. Great animations, but just can't enjoy it anymore.)

    For me, Sims 4 is better in terms of long term play because I don't get bored of it, SIms 1-3 I get bored quick so can't play them long term.

    So the answer to the question is basically Yes, Sims 4 is good in terms of long term play... but not for everyone. Depends on play style.

    I wouldn’t call game mechanics and simulation a challenge, because that’s not what made any of those games challenging. They were just simulation games, the outcomes to your actions and your choices were the main appeal and eliminating that has led to where we are now. A subset of players who are unhappy with the game being stripped of it’s identity, and a subset of players happy that it was. EA messed up because they could have easily made a spin off game that catered to storytellers using the same engine, same designs, etc. Instead they forced their players to accept a different kind of game, and when they didn’t they got new players.

    If there is a Sims 5 they should focus on making a good simulation game first. They can turn off the AI and leave it a blank slate for players who want that, but making a blank slate and expecting everyone to settle has not been healthy for the community.

    Those of us happy with it think EA improved upon it, not messed up. They didn't force anyone to accept a different kind of game because no one is forced to play the new game. They have different games, different styles, and people can play whichever they like best but no one is being forced into anything.

    But Honestly Sims 5 isn't the question here. The thread is about the long term play of Sims 4. And the answer stands the same. Yes, it's great for long term play, but not for everyone. For some it is, for some it isn't, depending on how they play.

    For a player such as myself, it's so great for long term play that there's probably not going to be any point in buying Sims 5 anyways since I'll be playing Sims 4 for another decade or two haha. So whatever the focus of Sims 5 is, it won't affect me.

    I’m not here to debate, but Maxis didn’t spend all that time pre-release goading players into preordering and purchasing the game for nothing. Grant was pretty black and white about it, if no one buys this game there won’t be another one. His exact words. Well Sims 4 came super close to failure until EA put it on a constant discount and upped the Internet ads associated with it. So I’m glad you are happy with it, but they stripped the game of it’s identity and then had to discount it to get it to make money. So yes they did mess up. Now that they’ve brought on tons of new players who are content they may feel differently, but the actions of the studio prior to and immediately following release should make it obvious there were issues with the game being brought up by a significant number of players who were not happy with what they were seeing, hearing, or experiencing once it came out.

    The fact that 6 years later people are still around complaining about the same things should also tell you Maxis messed up in making all sorts of damage control promises they never intended on keeping.

    People complaining doesn't tell me that EA messed up. They are a business with a game that has made a lot of money, I fail to see a screwup anywhere. People complaining tells me that not everyone likes the same thing (common sense and to be expected with every game in existance). And sense, as a general rule, complainers usually tend to be the very loud vocal minority, it tells me there are a LOT of people playing this game silently that like it too. But anyways, that's completely off topic.

    I'll repeat. Sims 4 has a lot of great long-term game play for some people, but not for everyone. And that's okay.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,797 Member
    Duvelina wrote: »
    Even if there was no chemistry, you could still match sims up though. It was just harder because they were incompatible. I don't think that's unrealistic either.

    You could... BUT my particular stories (which I prewrite) called for it to not be hard and a quick connection. But anyways, it didn't work with my stories. I don't wnat any challenges in my game, my play style is easy, fun and relaxing with everyone happy 100% of the time and telling prewritten stories. Plus, SIms 2's UI (ugh with the horrible blue and cluttered loading screens)make it unenjoyable now too haha. Great animations, but just can't enjoy it anymore.)

    For me, Sims 4 is better in terms of long term play because I don't get bored of it, SIms 1-3 I get bored quick so can't play them long term.

    So the answer to the question is basically Yes, Sims 4 is good in terms of long term play... but not for everyone. Depends on play style.

    I wouldn’t call game mechanics and simulation a challenge, because that’s not what made any of those games challenging. They were just simulation games, the outcomes to your actions and your choices were the main appeal and eliminating that has led to where we are now. A subset of players who are unhappy with the game being stripped of it’s identity, and a subset of players happy that it was. EA messed up because they could have easily made a spin off game that catered to storytellers using the same engine, same designs, etc. Instead they forced their players to accept a different kind of game, and when they didn’t they got new players.

    If there is a Sims 5 they should focus on making a good simulation game first. They can turn off the AI and leave it a blank slate for players who want that, but making a blank slate and expecting everyone to settle has not been healthy for the community.

    Those of us happy with it think EA improved upon it, not messed up. They didn't force anyone to accept a different kind of game because no one is forced to play the new game. They have different games, different styles, and people can play whichever they like best but no one is being forced into anything.

    But Honestly Sims 5 isn't the question here. The thread is about the long term play of Sims 4. And the answer stands the same. Yes, it's great for long term play, but not for everyone. For some it is, for some it isn't, depending on how they play.

    For a player such as myself, it's so great for long term play that there's probably not going to be any point in buying Sims 5 anyways since I'll be playing Sims 4 for another decade or two haha. So whatever the focus of Sims 5 is, it won't affect me.

    I’m not here to debate, but Maxis didn’t spend all that time pre-release goading players into preordering and purchasing the game for nothing. Grant was pretty black and white about it, if no one buys this game there won’t be another one. His exact words. Well Sims 4 came super close to failure until EA put it on a constant discount and upped the Internet ads associated with it. So I’m glad you are happy with it, but they stripped the game of it’s identity and then had to discount it to get it to make money. So yes they did mess up. Now that they’ve brought on tons of new players who are content they may feel differently, but the actions of the studio prior to and immediately following release should make it obvious there were issues with the game being brought up by a significant number of players who were not happy with what they were seeing, hearing, or experiencing once it came out.

    The fact that 6 years later people are still around complaining about the same things should also tell you Maxis messed up in making all sorts of damage control promises they never intended on keeping.

    People complaining doesn't tell me that EA messed up. They are a business with a game that has made a lot of money, I fail to see a screwup anywhere. People complaining tells me that not everyone likes the same thing (common sense and to be expected with every game in existance). And sense, as a general rule, complainers usually tend to be the very loud vocal minority, it tells me there are a LOT of people playing this game silently that like it too. But anyways, that's completely off topic.

    I'll repeat. Sims 4 has a lot of great long-term game play for some people, but not for everyone. And that's okay.

    The silent majority is a fallacy argument. Silence =/= happiness or discontent. If someone isn’t offering an opinion, one shouldn’t be assumed. That is one of the fundamental issues the community managers have had this go around, and they have embraced that flawed argument and encouraged it’s use in that specific context.

    I’m in no position to say a majority of players are unhappy with the game. The facts however can’t be refuted, and the facts are that this game was largely unsuccessful for the first couple years following it’s release and that’s not because happy people were silently playing and spending lots of money. It wasn’t successful by today’s standards until EA started pushing a free trial, a permanent mark down, and a steady cycle of discounts for the base game + DLC. I could go into a huge long paragraph as to why this happened, how it was predictable, and how they could have gotten in front of it before it exploded, but I’ll condense it to: they stripped the game of it’s identity. It’s the easiest way to get the point across, even the developers continuously refer to Sims 4 as a different Sims game. So I’m not sure contradicting the developers is a good argument to use in this case.

    It’s great you find long term play in this game, but your experience is yours. It’s exclusive to you. Just how my experience is exclusive to me.
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 3,416 Member

    The silent majority is a fallacy argument. Silence =/= happiness or discontent. If someone isn’t offering an opinion, one shouldn’t be assumed. That is one of the fundamental issues the community managers have had this go around, and they have embraced that flawed argument and encouraged it’s use in that specific context.

    I’m in no position to say a majority of players are unhappy with the game. The facts however can’t be refuted, and the facts are that this game was largely unsuccessful for the first couple years following it’s release and that’s not because happy people were silently playing and spending lots of money. It wasn’t successful by today’s standards until EA started pushing a free trial, a permanent mark down, and a steady cycle of discounts for the base game + DLC. I could go into a huge long paragraph as to why this happened, how it was predictable, and how they could have gotten in front of it before it exploded, but I’ll condense it to: they stripped the game of it’s identity. It’s the easiest way to get the point across, even the developers continuously refer to Sims 4 as a different Sims game. So I’m not sure contradicting the developers is a good argument to use in this case.

    It’s great you find long term play in this game, but your experience is yours. It’s exclusive to you. Just how my experience is exclusive to me.

    The first part I disagree with, but it's off topic so I think we should drop it and just agree to disagree.

    The bolded part I am in 100% agreement and exactly what I said too. This has long term play, but not for everyone. It's different for different individuals.

  • SimmerGeorgeSimmerGeorge Posts: 525 Member
    edited June 30
    I just wish people would be able to also judge the Sims 4 in a more objective way and not say that everything is a personal preference and a personal opinion. Some things are just facts
    There is a lot of personal playstyle and so on but some things need to be looked at more objectively. I'm not talking about anything specific. Just in general we as consumers should be able to face the more subjective opinion but also the facts as well.
    Where's my Sims 5 squad at?
  • Louise_G0325Louise_G0325 Posts: 934 Member
    edited June 30
    Once again, toggles would solve many of the issues related to different simmers enjoying different playstyles.

    Difficulty toggle (occurrence of deaths via electrocution, cow plants etc and consequences for bad performance at school, work and criminal activity), spontaneous events toggle (alien abductions, vampire break-ins, burglaries etc), story progression toggle (with options for played households so rotational players can keep up their stories) and so on. There could even be a chemistry toggle for those who don't want it to be challenging for their sims to get along with anyone they want (how TS4 is now, before an actual chemistry and turn-on/off system has been implemented).
    Toggles for each occult so simmers can enjoy the features a pack brings without having supernaturals in their saves, if they so choose. Even a celebrity toggle would be great, since although opting out of fame is a great toggle, it isn't currently enough if I don't want obnoxious paparazzi and fainting fans at my every community lot.

    Simmers who enjoy the game as it is now, can choose to keep the toggles on default setting. Simmers who prefer the game more challenging and more like previous iterations can set the toggles to the more difficult settings. The rest simply have more options to tailor the game to their perfect setup, which is never a bad thing. Everyone wins, since no-one is forced to play the game a certain way.
  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 10,740 Member
    edited July 1
    For me EA/Maxis messed with the formula a little too much as the game is fudgy in most areas and it still lacks some features that would add creativity to the game. Can't edit the neighborhoods, can't add Neighborhoods by end users, can't create lots, there is an awful lot of "you can't." Yes it has the name the Sims but it is not the Sims I am accustomed to playing and they were not perfect but I sure had fun playing them, but not so much with Sims 4.
    Post edited by Goldmoldar on
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  • CAPTAIN_NXR7CAPTAIN_NXR7 Posts: 218 Member
    edited June 30
    I just wish people would be able to also judge the Sims 4 in a more objective way and not say that everything is a personal preference and a personal opinion. Some things are just facts
    There is a lot of personal playstyle and so on but some things need to be looked at more objectively. I'm not talking about anything specific. Just in general we as consumers should be able to face the more subjective opinion but also the facts as well.

    @SimmerGeorge I can understand that you’re probably sick and tired of me forcing this topic, but in order to get ‘facts’ right and form a judgement based on those facts, solid research is essential. You cannot rely on a single source. You will need to find the source of information, collect reliable data, document that data, draw comparisons based on that data etc.

    However, at the end of the day, laying out the facts and a player’s preference is inconsequential in comparison.

    The only fact that exists right now is the number in sales.

    Whatever reasons for decision making EA/Maxis had in the past or has at present will not affect the majority of new players or a lot of veteran simmers who enjoy the game. A group can express their dissatisfaction by starting a protest and sign petitions or collectively boycott a game in the hope that EA sees some sense, but there will be another group just as large who is completely content with the current state of the sims and feels no need to look for flaws.

    Those who are not happy with TS4 and have expressed their discontent extensively on Forums or social media can only hope they’ve been ‘heard’ and that a successor to the franchise will have all the elements they feel is missing from the ongoing title.
    Simnature.gif
  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 10,740 Member
    edited July 2
    I just wish people would be able to also judge the Sims 4 in a more objective way and not say that everything is a personal preference and a personal opinion. Some things are just facts
    There is a lot of personal playstyle and so on but some things need to be looked at more objectively. I'm not talking about anything specific. Just in general we as consumers should be able to face the more subjective opinion but also the facts as well.

    @SimmerGeorge I can understand that you’re probably sick and tired of me forcing this topic, but in order to get ‘facts’ right and form a judgement based on those facts, solid research is essential. You cannot rely on a single source. You will need to find the source of information, collect reliable data, document that data, draw comparisons based on that data etc.

    However, at the end of the day, laying out the facts and a player’s preference is inconsequential in comparison.

    The only fact that exists right now is the number in sales.

    Whatever reasons for decision making EA/Maxis had in the past or has at present will not affect the majority of new players or a lot of veteran simmers who enjoy the game. A group can express their dissatisfaction by starting a protest and sign petitions or collectively boycott a game in the hope that EA sees some sense, but there will be another group just as large who is completely content with the current state of the sims and feels no need to look for flaws.

    Those who are not happy with TS4 and have expressed their discontent extensively on Forums or social media can only hope they’ve been ‘heard’ and that a successor to the franchise will have all the elements they feel is missing from the ongoing title.

    As it was with Sims 2013 that sunk the Sims City franchise and City Skylines was born which now is the King of City building for me. I was sadden Sim City did not fulfill it's purpose as it was claimed in it's hype trailers and gameplay. The Guide I brought for the game was nice but the claims never fulfilled.
    Post edited by Goldmoldar on
    AMD 2700X 16 GB Gigabyte RTX 2070 Super 8 GB Rosewill Rise Full Tower SB THX Trustudio LG Ultrawide 34"
    Intel 6700K 16 GB ASUS RTX 2070 Strix 8 GB Stryker Full Tower SB Z-Series Samsung Curved 32"
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