@bellagoth_ The thing is, it's not about the majority and how they voice their criticisms. There are many people who have expressed disappointment with the current pack's theme in a respectful way. This whole thread is about the part of the community that deliberately chooses their words to be mocking or demanding, the ones that project their own disappointment with something onto the entire community, the ones that claim that it's a death knell of the franchise, the ones who have chosen to mock other community members who like the pack's theme.
Saying "this pack is rubbish" isn't telling the devs what someone would like to see in the game. It's a self-centered perspective where that someone doesn't want anyone but themselves catered to.
We're a big community, there are people with a multitude of requests and wishes for what the game is still missing (I have my own list, as I'm sure every person in this thread does). Some things are suitable for packs, others need to be added to the base game, realistically some things simply can't be done in this iteration. So yes, there is a big demand for a massive amount of things. And we have spaces (including twitter replies but also many more) where we can voice our requests.
I do understand the frustration of not getting precisely the things we want, the way we want them. I've been in that place with many things. But at the end of the day, it's everyone's choice of how they decide to show that frustration. And I believe that an increasing number of people do so in horrible ways of personal attacks (no, they don't need to be aggressive or violent to be bad), mockery, and bashing of everything that isn't exactly to their liking.
Granted, I'm pretty sure a portion of the people who choose to be that way is determined to find fault with everything, without even knowing what it is.
got ya, but the problem is that some people is mistaking rudeness with criticism and they're excusing ea with the whole bullying thing and the "you guys are hurting feelings" (when no feeling has been hurt) and any person that dares to say anything remotely critic towards the game is seen as the bad guy and as a bully, when that's just taking things out of context
you guys see someone trash talking someone else? call them out
you guys see someone giving a critic on the game itself? then let them have their own opinion, i agree that words should be chosen carefully but whatever, as long as no one's getting targeted specifically and there's a point being made then there's nothing wrong
@bellagoth_ The thing is, it's not about the majority and how they voice their criticisms. There are many people who have expressed disappointment with the current pack's theme in a respectful way. This whole thread is about the part of the community that deliberately chooses their words to be mocking or demanding, the ones that project their own disappointment with something onto the entire community, the ones that claim that it's a death knell of the franchise, the ones who have chosen to mock other community members who like the pack's theme.
Saying "this pack is rubbish" isn't telling the devs what someone would like to see in the game. It's a self-centered perspective where that someone doesn't want anyone but themselves catered to.
We're a big community, there are people with a multitude of requests and wishes for what the game is still missing (I have my own list, as I'm sure every person in this thread does). Some things are suitable for packs, others need to be added to the base game, realistically some things simply can't be done in this iteration. So yes, there is a big demand for a massive amount of things. And we have spaces (including twitter replies but also many more) where we can voice our requests.
I do understand the frustration of not getting precisely the things we want, the way we want them. I've been in that place with many things. But at the end of the day, it's everyone's choice of how they decide to show that frustration. And I believe that an increasing number of people do so in horrible ways of personal attacks (no, they don't need to be aggressive or violent to be bad), mockery, and bashing of everything that isn't exactly to their liking.
Granted, I'm pretty sure a portion of the people who choose to be that way is determined to find fault with everything, without even knowing what it is.
got ya, but the problem is that some people is mistaking rudeness with criticism and they're excusing ea with the whole bullying thing and the "you guys are hurting feelings" (when no feeling has been hurt) and any person that dares to say anything remotely critic towards the game is seen as the bad guy and as a bully, when that's just taking things out of context
you guys see someone trash talking someone else? call them out
you guys see someone giving a critic on the game itself? then let them have their own opinion, i agree that words should be chosen carefully but whatever, as long as no one's getting targeted specifically and there's a point being made then there's nothing wrong
@bellagoth_ The thing is, it's not about the majority and how they voice their criticisms. There are many people who have expressed disappointment with the current pack's theme in a respectful way. This whole thread is about the part of the community that deliberately chooses their words to be mocking or demanding, the ones that project their own disappointment with something onto the entire community, the ones that claim that it's a death knell of the franchise, the ones who have chosen to mock other community members who like the pack's theme.
Saying "this pack is rubbish" isn't telling the devs what someone would like to see in the game. It's a self-centered perspective where that someone doesn't want anyone but themselves catered to.
We're a big community, there are people with a multitude of requests and wishes for what the game is still missing (I have my own list, as I'm sure every person in this thread does). Some things are suitable for packs, others need to be added to the base game, realistically some things simply can't be done in this iteration. So yes, there is a big demand for a massive amount of things. And we have spaces (including twitter replies but also many more) where we can voice our requests.
I do understand the frustration of not getting precisely the things we want, the way we want them. I've been in that place with many things. But at the end of the day, it's everyone's choice of how they decide to show that frustration. And I believe that an increasing number of people do so in horrible ways of personal attacks (no, they don't need to be aggressive or violent to be bad), mockery, and bashing of everything that isn't exactly to their liking.
Granted, I'm pretty sure a portion of the people who choose to be that way is determined to find fault with everything, without even knowing what it is.
got ya, but the problem is that some people is mistaking rudeness with criticism and they're excusing ea with the whole bullying thing and the "you guys are hurting feelings" (when no feeling has been hurt) and any person that dares to say anything remotely critic towards the game is seen as the bad guy and as a bully, when that's just taking things out of context
you guys see someone trash talking someone else? call them out
you guys see someone giving a critic on the game itself? then let them have their own opinion, i agree that words should be chosen carefully but whatever, as long as no one's getting targeted specifically and there's a point being made then there's nothing wrong
This thread started with OP pointing out that a number of replies on twitter were not even remotely constructive criticism.
When someone says "I'm proud of this thing I did", a reply that says "you should listen to what I want instead, what you did is nothing to be proud of" is not constructive, nor does it count as criticism. Those kind of replies were the ones being called out here.
That same tweet also had replies like "I don't like this theme but hey, congrats on the achievement". it's all about the difference.
We do seem to agree that words need to be chosen carefully. I wish there was a way to reach people who don't care about that and don't mind being rude and disrespectful, but since we can't (because they've already made up their minds), all we have is places like this where we can show our own frustration with that behavior.
Maybe no feelings were hurt, we don't know that. But I've personally been there, putting something I created (wrote) and was proud of out into the world only to get multiple responses that amounted to "this is a waste because it's not what I think you should be doing", some even with the explanation that the person didn't even read the story I wrote, just looked at the summary. So I can only imagine how it feels to be in their shoes.
I am not thrilled with this pack. But I would never be mean to the game company making the game. They can make any pack they want we don’t have to like every pack. It means if the pack doesn’t suit how you play or doesn’t add value to your own game then don’t buy it. You shouldn’t blame the SimGurus because you hate the pack. They are working on a game and packs for business it’s not always going to be things we like.
It's so depressing.
I'm a creative person myself and paint/draw a lot and I get criticism and when it is presented politely and with good points I can learn from it and I just get happy because someone took their time to do so but I also had a fair share of hate thrown towards me over a piece of artwork and that is truly hurtful and can cause a huge load of stress and anxiety. People need to understand that and be careful how they present their opinions.
Opinions should never be censored BUT with the freedom of expressing them comes a responsibility.
For all those who are looking for "proof": mockery and condescension aren't any better when piled on someone's celebration of an achievement (yes, I'm referring to SimGuruPopcorn's tweet) than outright threats.
If you only see violence and outright threats as worthy of disapproval, that's your prerogative but it doesn't make you right. Bullying comes in many other forms. Anyone looking for proof of the bullying that this post is addressing and dismissing the provided ones as not enough: gaslighting is a thing, you might want to look it up.
l don't think flat out threats are the only thing that is unacceptable and I think if someone's first response to another person being proud of what they did is "you should have done better", then they need to take a moment and think why.
Sure, be disappointed if that's how you feel, but as I said before, there's no need to tell someone to quit their job or that they failed because they didn't do precisely what you as an individual wanted. You don't have to like everything the team produces, you don't have to *buy* every pack, you most certainly don't have to buy it on release day at full price if you feel it's not worth it.
If you've chosen to spend that money on something you didn't think you'd like, you don't get to blame its creators, it was your choice. (buyer's remorse is a thing)
"I did see they took a guru from Mobile and made them a producer of TS4, no experience prior with the title."
The latter part is not true. SimGuruMiriam has already been contributing text (which is her role on TSM too) to TS4 while on the Sims Mobile team. Even if she hadn't, new hires happen, including ones with zero experience with a particular title. I don't see how this is something to be pointed out as a bad move.
Bottom line is, there are better ways to express disappointment than what a part of the community has been showing. And better ways to spend one's time.
The issue is that Twitter not only fosters, but borderline rewards that kind of behavior. 140 characters or less, think of something witty, get your likes and 5 seconds of recognition, and then do it again. It’s easily abused. I don’t condone it, but I do know the developers have the option to move to an environment where they have far more control over their platform (such as the forums) yet they choose to prefer and stay on Twitter. I’d imagine if that is the case, they’ve learned what the block button is well enough by now and have hopefully learned to filter out those making recycle puns of their pack.
I’m not going to dwell on the other part of your post too much, as honestly, I don’t really care at this point. I don’t manage Maxis. I do think we’ve seen a large difference in the outcome of The Sims 4’s base game development from being led by an ex-Facebook and Mobile game developer. Once their successor came into play, someone with a very long history of developing The Sims titles, things oddly started to get better. I do question Maxis decision making at times, but I wouldn’t, and have never, called for anyone’s firing, especially not now. Unfortunately, I see other communities where that kind of thing happens frequently. I really don’t see it often in this one, aside from the occasional toxic person here and there.
I think what a lot of people are objecting to isn't the negative response to the new expansion pack in general but the way the negative response has been expressed.
When someone voices their displeasure in a harsh, abrasive, confrontational manner that is designed to tear down and punish another person for not doing what they want or feel entitled to it often crosses the line into abuse. That's not healthy expression, it's twisted, manipulative and punitive.
No one has to like everything, it's ok to feel disappointed or to dislike the new content but how a person expresses their displeasure matters. People can choose to express themselves in a more mature and restrained manner that is not meant to be an attack, it is not obligatory to spew vitriol to make good and sure everyone knows that you didn't get what you wanted. It's pretty easy to forget to temper responses and not be so harsh seated in front of an anonymous computer screen.
Personal attack is not acceptable. But I think the given how expensive this game is ( the sheer amount of dlc) , we have the right to demand the game to have some minimal QA standard. This game is so buggy it is quite frustrating. I feel like we players are being used as unpaid testers. I have never played any games as buggy as the sims.
EA actually does have a playtester program. I don't mind reporting bugs to them. I rather not see a repeat of the Sims 3 of any Sims game being in denial and being called bug free. It is nice to help other Simmers out reporting them. Just like it is nice for the mod community to make mods and CCs. Nice selfless acts of kindness which I think why the pack angers people so much. People have forgotten about their hearts closing them up to others for so many years. I don't think it is something even the Sims games can fix.
I don't think just because people dislike the pack means they have closed hearts
they may do all these things in real life and may not want to do them in game
or it just might not be there cup of tea which is fine they don't have to like it
though I know these things are close to your heart because you like keeping the earth clean alot @Scobre
Thanks I do. I mean I don't enjoy red meat but doesn't mean I am not going to enjoy having it in the pack. So there are things I like about the Sims that true I may not do in real life like kill Sims, so I do understand that. The bug thing is taken on by a different team, the QA team, so reporting them directly to the team is the best way to go about it. https://answers.ea.com/t5/Technical-Issues-Consoles/Where-to-report-bugs/td-p/6441548
I did report a couple of gallery ones recently so was nice to see it was going to get addressed right away. I just think communication goes both ways. Gurus can't read our minds about bugs and QA team can't fix it unless they know about them, so knowing the right channel to go through helps. First bug I found for the Sims 4 everyone was in denial the game having issues and it didn't help. If it wasn't for the help of a temp CM SimGuruBChick my game would have kept crashing. It is because I got that help and was persistent with it I got the help I and others needed. But yes even if we aren't happy about things finding the right channel and communication to go through helps. I do my best but sometimes I have had feedback blown out of proportion with my character being judged. Now I am a playtester but it took a lot of effort on my part to get things fixed. Telling anyone a pack is trash will not make it better. Hard work has to be put in for effective feedback. Yes I was one of the annoying toddler people but filling Gurus with ideas did result in a good product I have seen the best version of with this franchise. I just think LGR and carlSims are good examples to follow with effective feedback.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Personal attack is not acceptable. But I think the given how expensive this game is ( the sheer amount of dlc) , we have the right to demand the game to have some minimal QA standard. This game is so buggy it is quite frustrating. I feel like we players are being used as unpaid testers. I have never played any games as buggy as the sims.
EA actually does have a playtester program. I don't mind reporting bugs to them. I rather not see a repeat of the Sims 3 of any Sims game being in denial and being called bug free. It is nice to help other Simmers out reporting them. Just like it is nice for the mod community to make mods and CCs. Nice selfless acts of kindness which I think why the pack angers people so much. People have forgotten about their hearts closing them up to others for so many years. I don't think it is something even the Sims games can fix.
I don't think just because people dislike the pack means they have closed hearts
they may do all these things in real life and may not want to do them in game
or it just might not be there cup of tea which is fine they don't have to like it
though I know these things are close to your heart because you like keeping the earth clean alot @Scobre
Thanks I do. I mean I don't enjoy red meat but doesn't mean I am not going to enjoy having it in the pack. So there are things I like about the Sims that true I may not do in real life like kill Sims, so I do understand that. The bug thing is taken on by a different team, the QA team, so reporting them directly to the team is the best way to go about it. https://answers.ea.com/t5/Technical-Issues-Consoles/Where-to-report-bugs/td-p/6441548
I did report a couple of gallery ones recently so was nice to see it was going to get addressed right away. I just think communication goes both ways. Gurus can't read our minds about bugs and QA team can't fix it unless they know about them, so knowing the right channel to go through helps. First bug I found for the Sims 4 everyone was in denial the game having issues and it didn't help. If it wasn't for the help of a temp CM SimGuruBChick my game would have kept crashing. It is because I got that help and was persistent with it I got the help I and others needed. But yes even if we aren't happy about things finding the right channel and communication to go through helps. I do my best but sometimes I have had feedback blown out of proportion with my character being judged. Now I am a playtester but it took a lot of effort on my part to get things fixed. Telling anyone a pack is trash will not make it better. Hard work has to be put in for effective feedback. Yes I was one of the annoying toddler people but filling Gurus with ideas did result in a good product I have seen the best version of with this franchise. I just think LGR and carlSims are good examples to follow with effective feedback.
lgr is great I watch his sims vids everytime a new pack comes out I suggest callmekevin and graystillplays vids they don't reviwe but there funny
and I cant wait to see what they do with the new pack I'm on the bug forums a lot to theirs a bug where vampiers wont bite when very angry @Scobre
The whole "Eco Living" thing really doesn't interest me at all, but some game features do. In my opinion, you don't like it, don't buy it. If you like some of the features, just wait until it's on sale. Due to budget constraints, I always do it that way. All my EPs were bought that way, some of the GPs, and when Origin was doing a 50% sale one Stuff Pack a week during the 20th-anniversary months, I got a good chunk of those that way. Yes, it does bug me that some TS3 features are missing, and many are difficult (if not impossible) to implement as mods to even the most experienced modders. But, I am simply just waiting. Some day, we may see those features, even if in TS5.
The whole "Eco Living" thing really doesn't interest me at all, but some game features do. In my opinion, you don't like it, don't buy it. If you like some of the features, just wait until it's on sale. Due to budget constraints, I always do it that way. All my EPs were bought that way, some of the GPs, and when Origin was doing a 50% sale one Stuff Pack a week during the 20th-anniversary months, I got a good chunk of those that way. Yes, it does bug me that some TS3 features are missing, and many are difficult (if not impossible) to implement as mods to even the most experienced modders. But, I am simply just waiting. Some day, we may see those features, even if in TS5.
Yeah, I agree. People who wanted that kind of a pack (or people who didn't particularly want it but got excited about it anyway) are mad at the dev team for not delivering on something that they weren't working on. For all we know a Country Living pack is going to happen, it's just not now.
The timing was unfortunate but that anger shouldn't be directed at the gurus. The fault of getting people's hopes up lies solely with the person who made and spread the fake leak.
Twitter isnt the problem. People in general are the problem. The world is full of impatient, loveless people. Individually, we have the right to criticize but be respectful to devs and others.
The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5
Twitter isnt the problem. People in general are the problem. The world is full of impatient, loveless people. Individually, we have the right to criticize but be respectful to devs and others.
Twitter isnt the problem. People in general are the problem. The world is full of impatient, loveless people. Individually, we have the right to criticize but be respectful to devs and others.
Honestly I agree and I actually used to avoid the forums when new packs were announced but now I avoid twitter, and tumblr and occasionally come here since I can pick and choose which discussion I want to read.
I honestly understand why the gurus prefer twitter. I once preferred it but now they might start limiting their communication there honestly. Which I can't blame them for. Honestly seems so stressful to communicate with angry fans.
The gurus moving to the forums and being more accessible here might not help their situation because I've seen worse here.
Twitter isnt the problem. People in general are the problem. The world is full of impatient, loveless people. Individually, we have the right to criticize but be respectful to devs and others.
Honestly I agree and I actually used to avoid the forums when new packs were announced but now I avoid twitter, and tumblr and occasionally come here since I can pick and choose which discussion I want to read.
I honestly understand why the gurus prefer twitter. I once preferred it but now they might start limiting their communication there honestly. Which I can't blame them for. Honestly seems so stressful to communicate with angry fans.
The gurus moving to the forums and being more accessible here might not help their situation because I've seen worse here.
I like having the Gurus being more accessible everywhere especially with people saying they want the Gurus to more transparent. But yes Twitter isn't very moderated as a site and I think the community is taking advantage of that. I do agree it isn't just one area. I like that about forums and Twitch too. I get the choice to choose where I want to be and sites are managed better. Twitter just feels like a constant throw up of bickering.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Hello everyone! We've gone ahead and closed the thread due to it going off-topic and turning into argument sessions in between users. We've removed a good amount of those comments. Please remember to be respectful and to stay on topic when sharing your point of view or responding to someone else's opinion.
Comments
got ya, but the problem is that some people is mistaking rudeness with criticism and they're excusing ea with the whole bullying thing and the "you guys are hurting feelings" (when no feeling has been hurt) and any person that dares to say anything remotely critic towards the game is seen as the bad guy and as a bully, when that's just taking things out of context
you guys see someone trash talking someone else? call them out
you guys see someone giving a critic on the game itself? then let them have their own opinion, i agree that words should be chosen carefully but whatever, as long as no one's getting targeted specifically and there's a point being made then there's nothing wrong
Well said!
This thread started with OP pointing out that a number of replies on twitter were not even remotely constructive criticism.
When someone says "I'm proud of this thing I did", a reply that says "you should listen to what I want instead, what you did is nothing to be proud of" is not constructive, nor does it count as criticism. Those kind of replies were the ones being called out here.
That same tweet also had replies like "I don't like this theme but hey, congrats on the achievement". it's all about the difference.
We do seem to agree that words need to be chosen carefully. I wish there was a way to reach people who don't care about that and don't mind being rude and disrespectful, but since we can't (because they've already made up their minds), all we have is places like this where we can show our own frustration with that behavior.
Maybe no feelings were hurt, we don't know that. But I've personally been there, putting something I created (wrote) and was proud of out into the world only to get multiple responses that amounted to "this is a waste because it's not what I think you should be doing", some even with the explanation that the person didn't even read the story I wrote, just looked at the summary. So I can only imagine how it feels to be in their shoes.
I'm a creative person myself and paint/draw a lot and I get criticism and when it is presented politely and with good points I can learn from it and I just get happy because someone took their time to do so but I also had a fair share of hate thrown towards me over a piece of artwork and that is truly hurtful and can cause a huge load of stress and anxiety. People need to understand that and be careful how they present their opinions.
Opinions should never be censored BUT with the freedom of expressing them comes a responsibility.
The issue is that Twitter not only fosters, but borderline rewards that kind of behavior. 140 characters or less, think of something witty, get your likes and 5 seconds of recognition, and then do it again. It’s easily abused. I don’t condone it, but I do know the developers have the option to move to an environment where they have far more control over their platform (such as the forums) yet they choose to prefer and stay on Twitter. I’d imagine if that is the case, they’ve learned what the block button is well enough by now and have hopefully learned to filter out those making recycle puns of their pack.
I’m not going to dwell on the other part of your post too much, as honestly, I don’t really care at this point. I don’t manage Maxis. I do think we’ve seen a large difference in the outcome of The Sims 4’s base game development from being led by an ex-Facebook and Mobile game developer. Once their successor came into play, someone with a very long history of developing The Sims titles, things oddly started to get better. I do question Maxis decision making at times, but I wouldn’t, and have never, called for anyone’s firing, especially not now. Unfortunately, I see other communities where that kind of thing happens frequently. I really don’t see it often in this one, aside from the occasional toxic person here and there.
When someone voices their displeasure in a harsh, abrasive, confrontational manner that is designed to tear down and punish another person for not doing what they want or feel entitled to it often crosses the line into abuse. That's not healthy expression, it's twisted, manipulative and punitive.
No one has to like everything, it's ok to feel disappointed or to dislike the new content but how a person expresses their displeasure matters. People can choose to express themselves in a more mature and restrained manner that is not meant to be an attack, it is not obligatory to spew vitriol to make good and sure everyone knows that you didn't get what you wanted. It's pretty easy to forget to temper responses and not be so harsh seated in front of an anonymous computer screen.
https://answers.ea.com/t5/Technical-Issues-Consoles/Where-to-report-bugs/td-p/6441548
I did report a couple of gallery ones recently so was nice to see it was going to get addressed right away. I just think communication goes both ways. Gurus can't read our minds about bugs and QA team can't fix it unless they know about them, so knowing the right channel to go through helps. First bug I found for the Sims 4 everyone was in denial the game having issues and it didn't help. If it wasn't for the help of a temp CM SimGuruBChick my game would have kept crashing. It is because I got that help and was persistent with it I got the help I and others needed. But yes even if we aren't happy about things finding the right channel and communication to go through helps. I do my best but sometimes I have had feedback blown out of proportion with my character being judged. Now I am a playtester but it took a lot of effort on my part to get things fixed. Telling anyone a pack is trash will not make it better. Hard work has to be put in for effective feedback. Yes I was one of the annoying toddler people but filling Gurus with ideas did result in a good product I have seen the best version of with this franchise. I just think LGR and carlSims are good examples to follow with effective feedback.
lgr is great I watch his sims vids everytime a new pack comes out I suggest callmekevin and graystillplays vids they don't reviwe but there funny
and I cant wait to see what they do with the new pack I'm on the bug forums a lot to theirs a bug where vampiers wont bite when very angry
@Scobre
The whole "Eco Living" thing really doesn't interest me at all, but some game features do. In my opinion, you don't like it, don't buy it. If you like some of the features, just wait until it's on sale. Due to budget constraints, I always do it that way. All my EPs were bought that way, some of the GPs, and when Origin was doing a 50% sale one Stuff Pack a week during the 20th-anniversary months, I got a good chunk of those that way. Yes, it does bug me that some TS3 features are missing, and many are difficult (if not impossible) to implement as mods to even the most experienced modders. But, I am simply just waiting. Some day, we may see those features, even if in TS5.
Yeah, I agree. People who wanted that kind of a pack (or people who didn't particularly want it but got excited about it anyway) are mad at the dev team for not delivering on something that they weren't working on. For all we know a Country Living pack is going to happen, it's just not now.
The timing was unfortunate but that anger shouldn't be directed at the gurus. The fault of getting people's hopes up lies solely with the person who made and spread the fake leak.
Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
People post on twitter.
Honestly I agree and I actually used to avoid the forums when new packs were announced but now I avoid twitter, and tumblr and occasionally come here since I can pick and choose which discussion I want to read.
I honestly understand why the gurus prefer twitter. I once preferred it but now they might start limiting their communication there honestly. Which I can't blame them for. Honestly seems so stressful to communicate with angry fans.
The gurus moving to the forums and being more accessible here might not help their situation because I've seen worse here.
EA_Joz