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6 years of Shallow Sims

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  • MagnezoneMagnezone Posts: 202 Member
    edited April 11
    bixters wrote: »
    But, if they don't bother listening, I hope Paralives wipes them out of existence :p

    The thing I worry about with paralives is it looks like it may be a better simulation game, but with its peculiar art style, everyone who stays in The Sims 4 to make hot sims and take cute modelling pictures aren't going to follow suit. The Sims franchise will never die because of that, unless a company makes what is essentially a modelling simulator which is way more customisable than The Sims 4 and actually well designed.

    I like doing that and playing though - I use The Sims 4 for aesthetics and 2 and 3 to well, play the game.
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  • OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 2,758 Member
    Making it three.
  • kwanzaabotkwanzaabot Posts: 2,207 Member
    In fairness, the "Well Decorated" moodlet is an element of classic Sims gameplay.
    The goal of The Sims 1 and The Sims 2 was to earn enough money to decorate your house with objects that would raise your Sims' Room(TS1)/Environment(TS2) need, which in turn would keep them happy.

    TS3 and TS4 keep the Environment score, but make it hidden, and reward your Sim with a Happy buff instead once it's high enough.

    Removing that Environment score would mean removing gameplay.
    The Sims 4 is already too easy, let's not make it easier.

    Yes, storytelling has increasingly become the focus of the game (and this in turn is what has made gameplay easier and Sims more shallow, since the Gurus expect us to make our own fun instead of providing fun), but at its core, Sims being happy from well-decorated rooms is a core gameplay mechanic of this series.

    Keep the "Well Decorated" moodlet.

    What the game needs is to make other emotions last longer, and to make them not override each other. If your Sim is Energized, it should take a very powerful Happy moodlet to override that. If they're Sad, they shouldn't be so quick to become Focused. And happiness for its own sake needs an overhaul. What does it mean to be Happy? It should be treated like TS2's Platinum Mood; an emotion that rarely appears, but when it does, comes with powerful, tangible gameplay elements.

    Essentially, the Meaningful Stories mod needs to be integrated into the game officially.
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  • FuriumFurium Posts: 2 New Member
    I feel like TS4 more so puts it in the hands of the player to make their own stories. They're very flexible while allowing the player to have specific perks to whatever way their story leans (i.e. gold digger female, slacker gamer, unloyal husbands, loving father, serial cheaters, etc.) while not binding them into one way of playing.
  • MagnezoneMagnezone Posts: 202 Member
    Furium wrote: »
    I feel like TS4 more so puts it in the hands of the player to make their own stories. They're very flexible while allowing the player to have specific perks to whatever way their story leans (i.e. gold digger female, slacker gamer, unloyal husbands, loving father, serial cheaters, etc.) while not binding them into one way of playing.

    And yet it's the worst game for storytelling yet due to the shallow neighborhoods with lack of customizability and no thematic choice for items/clothes without CC.
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  • telmarinatelmarina Posts: 2,199 Member
    kwanzaabot wrote: »
    In fairness, the "Well Decorated" moodlet is an element of classic Sims gameplay.
    The goal of The Sims 1 and The Sims 2 was to earn enough money to decorate your house with objects that would raise your Sims' Room(TS1)/Environment(TS2) need, which in turn would keep them happy.

    TS3 and TS4 keep the Environment score, but make it hidden, and reward your Sim with a Happy buff instead once it's high enough.

    Removing that Environment score would mean removing gameplay.
    The Sims 4 is already too easy, let's not make it easier.

    I feel like if they had removed the difficulty already, cause in sims 1 if you had the lowest furniture in what concerns to confort and price the game would give very few room points, making the sim not happy. In sims 4 the only way to have a bad moodlet related to environment is when something is dirty. Even with the less expensive furniture my sims always get the well decorated moodlet.
  • telmarinatelmarina Posts: 2,199 Member
    Furium wrote: »
    I feel like TS4 more so puts it in the hands of the player to make their own stories. They're very flexible while allowing the player to have specific perks to whatever way their story leans (i.e. gold digger female, slacker gamer, unloyal husbands, loving father, serial cheaters, etc.) while not binding them into one way of playing.

    But then i ask myself ... why did they add traits to the sims? It kind of deceives the player into thinking that they will matter...
  • MagnezoneMagnezone Posts: 202 Member
    telmarina wrote: »
    I feel like if they had removed the difficulty already, cause in sims 1 if you had the lowest furniture in what concerns to confort and price the game would give very few room points, making the sim not happy. In sims 4 the only way to have a bad moodlet related to environment is when something is dirty. Even with the less expensive furniture my sims always get the well decorated moodlet.
    I'd also like to add that it has no impact because you can drag and drop dirty plates into the sink yourself. The negative moodlet is basically pointless at this point because you can fix it with a matter of a few drags of the mouse.

    In TS3 you had a passive negative moodlet for not painting walls or not providing a room with lighting. The Sims 4 has no equivalent.
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  • bixtersbixters Posts: 960 Member
    Magnezone wrote: »
    The thing I worry about with paralives is it looks like it may be a better simulation game, but with its peculiar art style, everyone who stays in The Sims 4 to make hot sims and take cute modelling pictures aren't going to follow suit. The Sims franchise will never die because of that, unless a company makes what is essentially a modelling simulator which is way more customisable than The Sims 4 and actually well designed.

    I like doing that and playing though - I use The Sims 4 for aesthetics and 2 and 3 to well, play the game.

    I think that's a good point. Paralives probably won't be as graphically impressive as The Sims. I also believe Paralives will be a cheaper game in general, certainly cheaper than the sims, and a lot of the content will be free with the Steam Workshop. The cheaper price might attract more people to buy Paralives, but the better graphics might keep people playing the Sims 4.
  • bixtersbixters Posts: 960 Member
    kwanzaabot wrote: »
    In fairness, the "Well Decorated" moodlet is an element of classic Sims gameplay.
    The goal of The Sims 1 and The Sims 2 was to earn enough money to decorate your house with objects that would raise your Sims' Room(TS1)/Environment(TS2) need, which in turn would keep them happy.

    TS3 and TS4 keep the Environment score, but make it hidden, and reward your Sim with a Happy buff instead once it's high enough.

    Removing that Environment score would mean removing gameplay.
    The Sims 4 is already too easy, let's not make it easier.

    Yes, storytelling has increasingly become the focus of the game (and this in turn is what has made gameplay easier and Sims more shallow, since the Gurus expect us to make our own fun instead of providing fun), but at its core, Sims being happy from well-decorated rooms is a core gameplay mechanic of this series.

    Keep the "Well Decorated" moodlet.

    What the game needs is to make other emotions last longer, and to make them not override each other. If your Sim is Energized, it should take a very powerful Happy moodlet to override that. If they're Sad, they shouldn't be so quick to become Focused. And happiness for its own sake needs an overhaul. What does it mean to be Happy? It should be treated like TS2's Platinum Mood; an emotion that rarely appears, but when it does, comes with powerful, tangible gameplay elements.

    Essentially, the Meaningful Stories mod needs to be integrated into the game officially.

    Good point. The well decorated moodlet doesn't have to disappear per se, like you said, if they just made it harder to get that moodlet in the first place! Made other negative moodlets stronger.

    I wish they'd just use the template of the Meaningful Stories mod and just redo the emotion system. Honestly, it doesn't seem that difficult
  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 10,740 Member
    bixters wrote: »
    Magnezone wrote: »
    The thing I worry about with paralives is it looks like it may be a better simulation game, but with its peculiar art style, everyone who stays in The Sims 4 to make hot sims and take cute modelling pictures aren't going to follow suit. The Sims franchise will never die because of that, unless a company makes what is essentially a modelling simulator which is way more customisable than The Sims 4 and actually well designed.

    I like doing that and playing though - I use The Sims 4 for aesthetics and 2 and 3 to well, play the game.

    I think that's a good point. Paralives probably won't be as graphically impressive as The Sims. I also believe Paralives will be a cheaper game in general, certainly cheaper than the sims, and a lot of the content will be free with the Steam Workshop. The cheaper price might attract more people to buy Paralives, but the better graphics might keep people playing the Sims 4.

    As far graphics goes for me that is an moot point if there is nothing beyond graphics, If Paralives gameplay goes beyond what Sims 4 have to offer I am with Paralives just like when Sims City 2013 bombed, I went with Cities: Skyline which did give me what Sims City 2013 could not give. So the same here with Paralives I owe EA/Maxis no loyalty as Sims 4 cannot provide me the fun or creativity I yearn for. If Paralives does not pan out I would still abandon Sims 4 or any future games dealing with Sims series.
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  • OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 2,758 Member
    Furium wrote: »
    I feel like TS4 more so puts it in the hands of the player to make their own stories. They're very flexible while allowing the player to have specific perks to whatever way their story leans (i.e. gold digger female, slacker gamer, unloyal husbands, loving father, serial cheaters, etc.) while not binding them into one way of playing.

    Sims 4 leaves a lot up to the imagination. The game is very surface level and beyond that it’s a matter of what you imagine your Sim and their story to be. I didn’t feel required to fill in obvious gaps with my imagination in previous games and I consider that a monumental failure of Sims 4.

    I don’t play Sims to tell stories I make up. I play it as a game, and the story comes naturally as I play, which Sims 4 struggles to accommodate since it’s so reliant on the player picking up most of the slack while it tries to do ultimately nothing.

    In TS2 I can just play the game and the sims take care of the stories themselves. If I want to tell a story I make up I prefer to do that with a word processor, write a book and publish it. TS4 so drops the ball it's hard to believe it comes from the same company as TS2.
  • DijktafoneDijktafone Posts: 646 Member
    +1 O.P.
    This meta moment, when TS4 child sims play dolls at the dollhouse, and you realise you're doing the exact same.
  • BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 3,847 Member
    bixters wrote: »
    Magnezone wrote: »
    The thing I worry about with paralives is it looks like it may be a better simulation game, but with its peculiar art style, everyone who stays in The Sims 4 to make hot sims and take cute modelling pictures aren't going to follow suit. The Sims franchise will never die because of that, unless a company makes what is essentially a modelling simulator which is way more customisable than The Sims 4 and actually well designed.

    I like doing that and playing though - I use The Sims 4 for aesthetics and 2 and 3 to well, play the game.

    I think that's a good point. Paralives probably won't be as graphically impressive as The Sims. I also believe Paralives will be a cheaper game in general, certainly cheaper than the sims, and a lot of the content will be free with the Steam Workshop. The cheaper price might attract more people to buy Paralives, but the better graphics might keep people playing the Sims 4.

    Well the latest demo / quick film shows Paralives being at least twice as better graphics than Sims 4... And I like Sims 4's art style.
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  • MagnezoneMagnezone Posts: 202 Member
    Well the latest demo / quick film shows Paralives being at least twice as better graphics than Sims 4... And I like Sims 4's art style.

    We haven't seen the people yet. This is what I was getting at. The houses themselves are visually impressive thus far (when teased earlier on though, the graphical style was a little eh, but it was pre-alpha clearly), don't get me wrong. But whether or not they get the humans right is what will make or break turning some people over from The Sims to Paralives.

    I don't care too much. I like cute sims, but I prefer good gameplay. It's why I play TS2. But others spend most of their sims time modeling and making sims. If Paralives gets that aspect wrong, those players won't have any interest.
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  • kwanzaabotkwanzaabot Posts: 2,207 Member
    Magnezone wrote: »
    Well the latest demo / quick film shows Paralives being at least twice as better graphics than Sims 4... And I like Sims 4's art style.

    We haven't seen the people yet. This is what I was getting at. The houses themselves are visually impressive thus far (when teased earlier on though, the graphical style was a little eh, but it was pre-alpha clearly), don't get me wrong. But whether or not they get the humans right is what will make or break turning some people over from The Sims to Paralives.

    I don't care too much. I like cute sims, but I prefer good gameplay. It's why I play TS2. But others spend most of their sims time modeling and making sims. If Paralives gets that aspect wrong, those players won't have any interest.

    Honestly I think it'll be a long time before we see people, and even longer until we see some equivalent to Live Mode.

    What Alex Massé has made, is essentially a level editor.

    I don't think it's wise for people to hype up Paralives as a Sims killer the way they do; it might be good, but let's see some gameplay first.
    wJbomAo.png
  • BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 3,847 Member
    kwanzaabot wrote: »
    Magnezone wrote: »
    Well the latest demo / quick film shows Paralives being at least twice as better graphics than Sims 4... And I like Sims 4's art style.

    We haven't seen the people yet. This is what I was getting at. The houses themselves are visually impressive thus far (when teased earlier on though, the graphical style was a little eh, but it was pre-alpha clearly), don't get me wrong. But whether or not they get the humans right is what will make or break turning some people over from The Sims to Paralives.

    I don't care too much. I like cute sims, but I prefer good gameplay. It's why I play TS2. But others spend most of their sims time modeling and making sims. If Paralives gets that aspect wrong, those players won't have any interest.

    Honestly I think it'll be a long time before we see people, and even longer until we see some equivalent to Live Mode.

    What Alex Massé has made, is essentially a level editor.

    I don't think it's wise for people to hype up Paralives as a Sims killer the way they do; it might be good, but let's see some gameplay first.

    Apparently they are now about 5 or 6 people working on it. The same number of people, btw, that the team that makes Cities: Skylines has. And that blew Sim City into last decade.
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  • SERVERFRASERVERFRA Posts: 1,684 Member
    EA Maxis needs to wake up & smell the competition.
  • kwanzaabotkwanzaabot Posts: 2,207 Member
    kwanzaabot wrote: »
    Magnezone wrote: »
    Well the latest demo / quick film shows Paralives being at least twice as better graphics than Sims 4... And I like Sims 4's art style.

    We haven't seen the people yet. This is what I was getting at. The houses themselves are visually impressive thus far (when teased earlier on though, the graphical style was a little eh, but it was pre-alpha clearly), don't get me wrong. But whether or not they get the humans right is what will make or break turning some people over from The Sims to Paralives.

    I don't care too much. I like cute sims, but I prefer good gameplay. It's why I play TS2. But others spend most of their sims time modeling and making sims. If Paralives gets that aspect wrong, those players won't have any interest.

    Honestly I think it'll be a long time before we see people, and even longer until we see some equivalent to Live Mode.

    What Alex Massé has made, is essentially a level editor.

    I don't think it's wise for people to hype up Paralives as a Sims killer the way they do; it might be good, but let's see some gameplay first.

    Apparently they are now about 5 or 6 people working on it. The same number of people, btw, that the team that makes Cities: Skylines has. And that blew Sim City into last decade.

    Oh, well I stand corrected.
    It's DEFINITELY a Sims-killer in that case.

    Six people! Whoa!

    Wake me when they show some actual gameplay.
    wJbomAo.png
  • ApparentlyAwesomeApparentlyAwesome Posts: 1,436 Member
    kwanzaabot wrote: »
    kwanzaabot wrote: »
    Magnezone wrote: »
    Well the latest demo / quick film shows Paralives being at least twice as better graphics than Sims 4... And I like Sims 4's art style.

    We haven't seen the people yet. This is what I was getting at. The houses themselves are visually impressive thus far (when teased earlier on though, the graphical style was a little eh, but it was pre-alpha clearly), don't get me wrong. But whether or not they get the humans right is what will make or break turning some people over from The Sims to Paralives.

    I don't care too much. I like cute sims, but I prefer good gameplay. It's why I play TS2. But others spend most of their sims time modeling and making sims. If Paralives gets that aspect wrong, those players won't have any interest.

    Honestly I think it'll be a long time before we see people, and even longer until we see some equivalent to Live Mode.

    What Alex Massé has made, is essentially a level editor.

    I don't think it's wise for people to hype up Paralives as a Sims killer the way they do; it might be good, but let's see some gameplay first.

    Apparently they are now about 5 or 6 people working on it. The same number of people, btw, that the team that makes Cities: Skylines has. And that blew Sim City into last decade.

    Oh, well I stand corrected.
    It's DEFINITELY a Sims-killer in that case.

    Six people! Whoa!

    Wake me when they show some actual gameplay.

    It's sad to me that I have more faith in a brand new game that's still in development over a game series that has over 20 years of experience but that's where I'm at. More people doesn't necessarily mean a better game anymore than as few as 5 or 6 people do. I hope they take their time on Paralives. If it's not here for 3 more years so they can work everything out I'm fine because I never want something like what happened with The Sims 4 to happen again.

    I was just talking about this in a Sims group. Sims 4 sims lack a personality. The issues with personalities and emotions have been mentioned numerous times and still little has been done to fix it. Then when you look at their history of how they left the previous games it's really no surprise.

    Maybe Sims 5 will be better or maybe it won't. Who knows how Paralives will turn out, but I know based on the innovation and detail I've seen so far I like it. I wish EA did more of that. I like that they're listening to all ideas and that they want to know why players prefer certain types of gameplay to better understand. I wish EA thought like that.

    I'm not saying it's going to kill The Sims but I really hope Paralives makes EA change some of their ways.
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  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 10,740 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    kwanzaabot wrote: »
    kwanzaabot wrote: »
    Magnezone wrote: »
    Well the latest demo / quick film shows Paralives being at least twice as better graphics than Sims 4... And I like Sims 4's art style.

    We haven't seen the people yet. This is what I was getting at. The houses themselves are visually impressive thus far (when teased earlier on though, the graphical style was a little eh, but it was pre-alpha clearly), don't get me wrong. But whether or not they get the humans right is what will make or break turning some people over from The Sims to Paralives.

    I don't care too much. I like cute sims, but I prefer good gameplay. It's why I play TS2. But others spend most of their sims time modeling and making sims. If Paralives gets that aspect wrong, those players won't have any interest.

    Honestly I think it'll be a long time before we see people, and even longer until we see some equivalent to Live Mode.

    What Alex Massé has made, is essentially a level editor.

    I don't think it's wise for people to hype up Paralives as a Sims killer the way they do; it might be good, but let's see some gameplay first.

    Apparently they are now about 5 or 6 people working on it. The same number of people, btw, that the team that makes Cities: Skylines has. And that blew Sim City into last decade.

    Oh, well I stand corrected.
    It's DEFINITELY a Sims-killer in that case.

    Six people! Whoa!

    Wake me when they show some actual gameplay.

    Wake me up when EA does the same for The Sims 4. :lol:

    Yeah, Sims 4 has no pizzazz for me and I can't even play it no more and enjoy myself.
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  • TS1299TS1299 Posts: 1,087 Member
    The game really lacks personality. If I will be honest they create great dlc for the game that *could* add depth to the game, but this features never reached its full potential because the sims in the base game are lacking. They keep expanding sims with no personality with dlc rather than fixing them first.
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