The same inconsistent 'logic' that says dog houes are bad. They may try to defend themselves by saying that one is player choice and less blatent than the cake version. Problem with that is with the asset in game, it can easily appear (and in highly inappropriate situations) by the game, no player input involved.
This is a good point. After all, even though LEGO is a company which primarily makes products for kids roughly 3 years old to 12 years old, they still do a lot for their adult fans too. They make advanced building kits with thousands of pieces that sell at a price point that only adults and working teens can afford, they sponsor building contests, they support artists who use LEGO bricks as their primary medium. In their LEGO films, they reference classic sets and older LEGO media (like the Gold Ninja joke in the Ninjago movie). They appreciate all of the fans, young and old, who've played with LEGO bricks over the generations, and they try to keep not just the kids and the teens and adults who are still into LEGO, but also older people who may not have touched anything LEGO in 15 or 20 years, but still have fond memories and warm feelings attached to the brand happy.
EA could and should be that way with The Sims: making sure that the game maintains that "T" rating so that kids can still buy it with their birthday money, but also keeping it challenging and exciting for adult fans of the series as well. There are lots of "T"-rated games that have a lot more edge and drama to them than TS4. Many of them are JRPG's, but still. Maintaining the "T" rating and making a game that kids can have fun with doesn't necessarily mean taking the fat out of the biscuit for older players. Most Final Fantasy games have the "T" rating, but also seriously tackle hard subjects like religion, politics, revenge, environmentalism, the value and meaning of life, what it is to be a person, racism, crime, and more. Even after shifting the battle system to "we don't feel like making a proper turn-based system, so let's just slap Kingdom Hearts' combat on it and call it a day," they still aren't afraid to "go there" with the stories. Imagine if Square/SquareEnix had decided, somewhere along the way, to make all FF stories "American Saturday Morning Time Slot Friendly as Recommended By 4Kids Entertainment." The series would have taken a terrible hit.
With a long-running series, you can't forget about your long-time fans. LEGO knows that, SquareEnix knows that...but EA has yet to learn this lesson.
It is said that Lego where losing a lot of sales in the 2000s. I think they changed how they looked at things. It is clear that TS4 had a slower start than hoped and so EA should take a leaf out of Lego's book in order to survive the long term.
Both TS2 and TS3 where successful as they still catered to traditional players while trying new features out as well. TS4 shut out a lot of players hence the slow sales.
20 years is a long time for a lot of players. We brought the first game, funded the second and by buying that we funded the third and the forth.
Why should I fund the fifth when the forth was thrown back in my face?
This is a good point. After all, even though LEGO is a company which primarily makes products for kids roughly 3 years old to 12 years old, they still do a lot for their adult fans too. They make advanced building kits with thousands of pieces that sell at a price point that only adults and working teens can afford, they sponsor building contests, they support artists who use LEGO bricks as their primary medium. In their LEGO films, they reference classic sets and older LEGO media (like the Gold Ninja joke in the Ninjago movie). They appreciate all of the fans, young and old, who've played with LEGO bricks over the generations, and they try to keep not just the kids and the teens and adults who are still into LEGO, but also older people who may not have touched anything LEGO in 15 or 20 years, but still have fond memories and warm feelings attached to the brand happy.
EA could and should be that way with The Sims: making sure that the game maintains that "T" rating so that kids can still buy it with their birthday money, but also keeping it challenging and exciting for adult fans of the series as well. There are lots of "T"-rated games that have a lot more edge and drama to them than TS4. Many of them are JRPG's, but still. Maintaining the "T" rating and making a game that kids can have fun with doesn't necessarily mean taking the fat out of the biscuit for older players. Most Final Fantasy games have the "T" rating, but also seriously tackle hard subjects like religion, politics, revenge, environmentalism, the value and meaning of life, what it is to be a person, racism, crime, and more. Even after shifting the battle system to "we don't feel like making a proper turn-based system, so let's just slap Kingdom Hearts' combat on it and call it a day," they still aren't afraid to "go there" with the stories. Imagine if Square/SquareEnix had decided, somewhere along the way, to make all FF stories "American Saturday Morning Time Slot Friendly as Recommended By 4Kids Entertainment." The series would have taken a terrible hit.
With a long-running series, you can't forget about your long-time fans. LEGO knows that, SquareEnix knows that...but EA has yet to learn this lesson.
I agree. Leadership at EA changed in 2013 though and things are so different now with the way they handle their games and their loyal customers. The old leadership before that was pretty cut-throat with the game studios it acquired, but game quality was excellent (Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect, Dead Space, The Sims 2 and 3, The Saboteur) and they treated their customers well (generous content in their games, great free incentives if you pre-ordered, special events were truly special).
I don't think the new leadership will learn anything though. They still have other games that do very well, like the FIFA series.
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In regard to the title of this thread, I agree, The Sims should start catering to the AFOTS. It was like that before with all the previous iterations and none of the kids who grew up playing those games got screwed up in the head or whatever, lol!
As an AFOTS, I know exactly what I'm missing here in TS4, but I would pay to have. Something as deep as TS3 'Roaring heights', which was IMO a success in terms of adult content, without being visually inappropriate for x age.
In that hood, you had several bad mariages in an era (1920's to 1940's) where divorce wasn't commonplace as today, which led to deceit, but also the family struggles of a widow, hidden homosexuality for status reasons, and so on...
In TS4, there's not a single adult-themed setup that comes at the top of my head; something I personally miss.
For the visuals, that's a different story. Yes, I'd personally like the cake-girl, or the 'goose' (that 🎃🎃🎃🎃 goose ) to make a comeback, but some of the things we'd like to see might very well force them to change their 'T rating' in 2020, as opposed to the 3 previous entries eras.
For the visuals, that's a different story. Yes, I'd personally like the cake-girl, or the 'goose' (that 🌺🌺🌺🌺 goose ) to make a comeback, but some of the things we'd like to see might very well force them to change their 'T rating' in 2020, as opposed to the 3 previous entries eras.
They only change the T rating to Mature if content becomes openly sexual, there is violence with blood, or some very strong language, which are very unlikely to be included in the Sims. The game is still T for teens but now they are catering more towards middle eastern payers who have a very different approach to sex and what is culturally and morally appropriate behavior. Hence, no more "goose" or cake dancers, or arm kissing.
I absolutely believe the Sims needs to cater more to their adult fans.
Whether that means more family play (YES), or raunchier content (YESSSSSS), either way I am down.
The cake dancers in TS1 are a great example. Compare them to the "Party Dancers" of TS3, where they literally just show up and dance, and spray champagne on people.
Steamier romance interactions would be a great start.
Cuddling in bed, "goosing" etc etc, as well as more woohoo locations, and more "adult" animations to go with them: the change booths in TS1 Hot Date are really steamy. Sims 4 could never!
I mean, look at this! You only see their faces and their feet, and the female Sim gets on her knees
Only for a second, but you'd never see something like that in a modern Sims game.
I am shocked!
Shocked and appalled!
And I love it! https://youtu.be/qKYxwQ-UytY?t=141
The game could have a lot more serious themes without breaching the PEGI rating. I believe the rating they have can deal with most things including mental health problems, drug addiction etc. The things banned would be explicit and graphic woohoo, non-consensual woohoo, and extreme gory violence. It was an EA policy to keep this particular game reasonably light-hearted, not a ratings law. But I wonder if more gloomy or malevolent themes could come in an EP, which people who like a light hearted game can simply decide not to buy.
As far as pc culture, I think I'm offended the Sims in this game thinks woohoo is not the deep, loving relationship you take with the person you love but just a chance to high five....as if it's just a day at the ballgame. Sometimes their priorities seem all messed up. It's ok to woohoo many different partners, multiple, (TS4) with no consequences (like in TS2 or even The Sims Medieval) but not ok to show a cut scene of the first woohoo. Some days they confuse me of what message they do try to send. Even TS2 Sims felt bad (memories) and some guilt for cheating. lol
I get your point, and happen to be a person to whom woohoo is sacrosanct in a committed, loving relationship. However, that is not the only norm out there and it's our tendency to universalize our own point of view. There are too many people who live in polyamory to ignore or push aside as "doing it wrong". There may not be only one best human social and/or reproductive strategy. My spouse and I are "eagles" in that we're high-fidelity and have no desire to be otherwise. But I know people who naively believe that's us just oppressing ourselves, because in innocently universalizing their own experience, they assume everyone is inclined to poly because they are. On the other hand, there are people who believe poly is an aberration. You see? If we could all recognize that there's more than one right way, we can stop judging others for living differently. Yes, the high-fiving and team spirit cheer attitude toward woohoo is kind of lame...it takes it away from being anything intense and special and makes it like considering going on a picnic.
But framing it as only an intense thing with great gravity, as it is for me and my spouse, and others like us, would exclude the multitudes for whom it is preferred as a lighthearted, much more casual activity.
I use Passionate Romance mods and other mods to fill in my game.
I don't know what their target audience was before, really can't remember. I don't think "catering" to any specific group would be right. Just seemed that the game was aimed at ANYONE previously, and in my opinion (and I may of course be wrong), that was the right way to do it. Kids could play innocent games, and adults could spice things up and play on the edge. We could play the kind of game we wanted.
Now, the game is overly considerate, and holding our hands. Its tame. Its sunshine and rainbows, and happy happy sims. I wouldn't be surprised they took out or left out stuff because someone could get "offended" by it. People are so easily offended these days.
I could let my 10 year old niece jump into any of my families (after taking out my mods), and she would be safe. Eaxis is like our government, they give us laws and regulations, and limitations, to protect us from ourselves. The sims has lost its quirky silliness that made it the unique, fun game it was. Sure I still play it after 20 years, sure I have fun. I need mods to actually enjoy the game, though, to stop annoyances and add gameplay, not to mention townie "story" progression.
Do I want them to cater to AFOTS? Yes I do, but I want them to cater to everyone. Wasn't that the rating before? At least for TS1? E for everyone...? Can't get to my discs right now, but I'm pretty sure.
I don't know what their target audience was before, really can't remember. I don't think "catering" to any specific group would be right. Just seemed that the game was aimed at ANYONE previously, and in my opinion (and I may of course be wrong), that was the right way to do it. Kids could play innocent games, and adults could spice things up and play on the edge. We could play the kind of game we wanted.
Now, the game is overly considerate, and holding our hands. Its tame. Its sunshine and rainbows, and happy happy sims. I wouldn't be surprised they took out or left out stuff because someone could get "offended" by it. People are so easily offended these days.
I could let my 10 year old niece jump into any of my families (after taking out my mods), and she would be safe. Eaxis is like our government, they give us laws and regulations, and limitations, to protect us from ourselves. The sims has lost its quirky silliness that made it the unique, fun game it was. Sure I still play it after 20 years, sure I have fun. I need mods to actually enjoy the game, though, to stop annoyances and add gameplay, not to mention townie "story" progression.
Do I want them to cater to AFOTS? Yes I do, but I want them to cater to everyone. Wasn't that the rating before? At least for TS1? E for everyone...? Can't get to my discs right now, but I'm pretty sure.
I think they believe their target audience is a bunch of 8 year olds because of the way they make Sims 4 kiddish.
I do love clean games but not too childish.
The Sims are supposed to be built like a digital Ken & Barbie. So, why do they need to be blurred.
Both my generation & my daughter's generation played with our Barbie & Ken dolls in our childhood we even undressed our dolls to bathe with them & changed their clothes frequently. Isn't that shocking. My daughter even had the nerve to have Disney Ariel doll sleep with her Prince Eric doll. And all at the age of 8. (I'm being sarcastic about playing with plastic doll that have no girl or boy bits. Lol)
Any bets in the next version - if there is one - they eliminate romantic interactions and such (very messy, unsanitary, and can lead to emotional trauma) in favor of mates being issued by the SD (Sims Directorate)? Or that whoo-hoo has a similar fate (add potentially life threatening to the above list) to be replaced by a chemically engineered entity shipped to one's home? This 'game' keeps giving me the feeling the T is actually for toddler.
Yes! We need a more mature version of the sims, mature or adult content doesnt always have to equal to gore, violence, sex etc. Sure most adult games and movies have those topics in them but they can be settle in game like the sims. They try to mask this game as teen rated for longest, but everything in the game screams rated G, E10. I really think their trying to make the sims for kids, kids dont know any better..they wont see the occurring issues with the game cause their just playing for.
You could look on Sims 4 as a game for teens that adults have just taken over. That's what they said they aimed for when it came out 13 year old girls so we don't really have much to complain about have we? They did tell us.
Differences here to me are the fact I think TS4 caters in low brow humor where the others had more of a sophistication of some of it's humor, not all, but enough to appeal to those who aren't fans of low brow humor/ laughing at farts, talking toilet etc.
Well most of us who were adults back when this show came around... pretty much knew where "humor" was going. I'm sure you probably rolled your eyes at this too.
...and naturally... we get more and more of that sort of content now.
We just want the humor of the Sims 1&2 back.
Those of us who want the "mature adult" R=stuff will mod it into our games.
Not only is my money just as green as any other player, but in fact could be argued as greener as I don't have to ask mummy’s permission to buy content.
I worked from the time I was 12 earning money helping my now late Dad at gardening (We'd get up at 7 in the morning on weekends and wouldn't get home until at least 10 at night - for me it was a weekend out with dad, but there was a lot of hard-work involved too) and knew what a hard days work is. I don't think today's children know what that kind of backbreaking work is. I'm now 50 and have worked practically my entire life until disability/physical injury took me out of the work force.
So EA needs to really think about where the actual money is coming from. From those who have an actual say in where their money comes from and how they discretionary spend their hard-earned dollars or from the teens and children who have to ask mommy for the money to buy the next half-baked expansion pack.
The game could have a lot more serious themes without breaching the PEGI rating. I believe the rating they have can deal with most things including mental health problems, drug addiction etc. The things banned would be explicit and graphic woohoo, non-consensual woohoo, and extreme gory violence. It was an EA policy to keep this particular game reasonably light-hearted, not a ratings law. But I wonder if more gloomy or malevolent themes could come in an EP, which people who like a light hearted game can simply decide not to buy.
sounds good to me but you know they would buy it anyway and demand everything be removed
the sims 4 isn't getting new whims right now and I think they have dropped them all together if we want new whims in sims 4 we need to tweet the gurus and tell them we like whims
You could look on Sims 4 as a game for teens that adults have just taken over. That's what they said they aimed for when it came out 13 year old girls so we don't really have much to complain about have we? They did tell us.
I know girls that age who are more mature in their tastes and thinking than what the game is aimed at. Kids may be young, but they're not stupid.
I can see both sides of this issue: but, it seems that PC folks are better off, as they are able to mod their game. I can see where it's tougher for console players (like myself), as we are probably always going to be saddle with a more "teen-friendly" edition of the game. I agree with many of you who aren't looking for a more "adults-only" style of game, but it seems that's the direction of the series now.
Seems more to be the series is headed to T for toddler. What the folks in CA seem to be ingoring is that teens are in preparation for entry into the adult phase of life, with all the responsibilities that entails. They're not kids any longer, not yet adult, but are getting there and soon will be. TS1 & 2 caught that transition feel well, light-hearted but not afraid to face the reality side - which on occasion has its dark/sad moments.
The thing is, I know from personal experience, if you are totally overprotected when you are young, when the protection goes away (such as going off to college, moving out, actually having a relationship that turns intimate), you don't know what to do. In fact too often, people do exactly the opposite of what the overprotective people would have wanted them to do (ie getting roaring durnk in a party fraternity), and not only that, but they do it to excess way beyond what common sense should have dictated. Those who grow up with certain customs have the common sense to know how to handle things, more often than not.
Comments
It is said that Lego where losing a lot of sales in the 2000s. I think they changed how they looked at things. It is clear that TS4 had a slower start than hoped and so EA should take a leaf out of Lego's book in order to survive the long term.
Both TS2 and TS3 where successful as they still catered to traditional players while trying new features out as well. TS4 shut out a lot of players hence the slow sales.
20 years is a long time for a lot of players. We brought the first game, funded the second and by buying that we funded the third and the forth.
Why should I fund the fifth when the forth was thrown back in my face?
I agree. Leadership at EA changed in 2013 though and things are so different now with the way they handle their games and their loyal customers. The old leadership before that was pretty cut-throat with the game studios it acquired, but game quality was excellent (Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect, Dead Space, The Sims 2 and 3, The Saboteur) and they treated their customers well (generous content in their games, great free incentives if you pre-ordered, special events were truly special).
I don't think the new leadership will learn anything though. They still have other games that do very well, like the FIFA series.
----
In regard to the title of this thread, I agree, The Sims should start catering to the AFOTS. It was like that before with all the previous iterations and none of the kids who grew up playing those games got screwed up in the head or whatever, lol!
In that hood, you had several bad mariages in an era (1920's to 1940's) where divorce wasn't commonplace as today, which led to deceit, but also the family struggles of a widow, hidden homosexuality for status reasons, and so on...
In TS4, there's not a single adult-themed setup that comes at the top of my head; something I personally miss.
For the visuals, that's a different story. Yes, I'd personally like the cake-girl, or the 'goose' (that 🎃🎃🎃🎃 goose
They only change the T rating to Mature if content becomes openly sexual, there is violence with blood, or some very strong language, which are very unlikely to be included in the Sims. The game is still T for teens but now they are catering more towards middle eastern payers who have a very different approach to sex and what is culturally and morally appropriate behavior. Hence, no more "goose" or cake dancers, or arm kissing.
Whether that means more family play (YES), or raunchier content (YESSSSSS), either way I am down.
The cake dancers in TS1 are a great example. Compare them to the "Party Dancers" of TS3, where they literally just show up and dance, and spray champagne on people.
Steamier romance interactions would be a great start.
Cuddling in bed, "goosing" etc etc, as well as more woohoo locations, and more "adult" animations to go with them: the change booths in TS1 Hot Date are really steamy. Sims 4 could never!
I mean, look at this! You only see their faces and their feet, and the female Sim gets on her knees
Only for a second, but you'd never see something like that in a modern Sims game.
I am shocked!
Shocked and appalled!
And I love it!
https://youtu.be/qKYxwQ-UytY?t=141
I get your point, and happen to be a person to whom woohoo is sacrosanct in a committed, loving relationship. However, that is not the only norm out there and it's our tendency to universalize our own point of view. There are too many people who live in polyamory to ignore or push aside as "doing it wrong". There may not be only one best human social and/or reproductive strategy. My spouse and I are "eagles" in that we're high-fidelity and have no desire to be otherwise. But I know people who naively believe that's us just oppressing ourselves, because in innocently universalizing their own experience, they assume everyone is inclined to poly because they are. On the other hand, there are people who believe poly is an aberration. You see? If we could all recognize that there's more than one right way, we can stop judging others for living differently. Yes, the high-fiving and team spirit cheer attitude toward woohoo is kind of lame...it takes it away from being anything intense and special and makes it like considering going on a picnic.
But framing it as only an intense thing with great gravity, as it is for me and my spouse, and others like us, would exclude the multitudes for whom it is preferred as a lighthearted, much more casual activity.
I use Passionate Romance mods and other mods to fill in my game.
Now, the game is overly considerate, and holding our hands. Its tame. Its sunshine and rainbows, and happy happy sims. I wouldn't be surprised they took out or left out stuff because someone could get "offended" by it. People are so easily offended these days.
I could let my 10 year old niece jump into any of my families (after taking out my mods), and she would be safe. Eaxis is like our government, they give us laws and regulations, and limitations, to protect us from ourselves. The sims has lost its quirky silliness that made it the unique, fun game it was. Sure I still play it after 20 years, sure I have fun. I need mods to actually enjoy the game, though, to stop annoyances and add gameplay, not to mention townie "story" progression.
Do I want them to cater to AFOTS? Yes I do, but I want them to cater to everyone. Wasn't that the rating before? At least for TS1? E for everyone...? Can't get to my discs right now, but I'm pretty sure.
TS1 stuff
Gallery: Kathykins
They have all been rated T for teen.
I do love clean games but not too childish.
The Sims are supposed to be built like a digital Ken & Barbie. So, why do they need to be blurred.
Both my generation & my daughter's generation played with our Barbie & Ken dolls in our childhood we even undressed our dolls to bathe with them & changed their clothes frequently. Isn't that shocking. My daughter even had the nerve to have Disney Ariel doll sleep with her Prince Eric doll. And all at the age of 8. (I'm being sarcastic about playing with plastic doll that have no girl or boy bits. Lol)
Well most of us who were adults back when this show came around... pretty much knew where "humor" was going. I'm sure you probably rolled your eyes at this too.
...and naturally... we get more and more of that sort of content now.
We just want the humor of the Sims 1&2 back.
Those of us who want the "mature adult" R=stuff will mod it into our games.
I worked from the time I was 12 earning money helping my now late Dad at gardening (We'd get up at 7 in the morning on weekends and wouldn't get home until at least 10 at night - for me it was a weekend out with dad, but there was a lot of hard-work involved too) and knew what a hard days work is. I don't think today's children know what that kind of backbreaking work is. I'm now 50 and have worked practically my entire life until disability/physical injury took me out of the work force.
So EA needs to really think about where the actual money is coming from. From those who have an actual say in where their money comes from and how they discretionary spend their hard-earned dollars or from the teens and children who have to ask mommy for the money to buy the next half-baked expansion pack.
Nikkei_Simmer's Sims 3 Blog - For more Sims 3 stories...
"The only conceivable use for a vampire is as a sharpened stick tester." ~ Haruo Chikamori, werewolf
sounds good to me but you know they would buy it anyway and demand everything be removed
I know girls that age who are more mature in their tastes and thinking than what the game is aimed at. Kids may be young, but they're not stupid.
The thing is, I know from personal experience, if you are totally overprotected when you are young, when the protection goes away (such as going off to college, moving out, actually having a relationship that turns intimate), you don't know what to do. In fact too often, people do exactly the opposite of what the overprotective people would have wanted them to do (ie getting roaring durnk in a party fraternity), and not only that, but they do it to excess way beyond what common sense should have dictated. Those who grow up with certain customs have the common sense to know how to handle things, more often than not.
I remember when sometimes it was a GORILLA jumping out of that cake