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The reason simmers welcolme other life simulator games.

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  • ApparentlyAwesomeApparentlyAwesome Posts: 1,523 Member
    Two life simulators would be better than just one. Especially considering the direction The Sims is headed in with so much focus on appearances and not enough focus on most things deeper than that.

    I'm liking what I see of Paralives so far. I can't wait to see what he does with the parafolk and gameplay (I'm eager to see that part) but I love the innovation he's got in mind for build mode. Especially expanding or decreasing lot sizes. I've wanted that for so long. It's those types of things being included that make it easier for me to overlook the art style even if how it looks now is how it will remain throughout.

    I don't like how Sims 4 looks either but if there was more to the game for me than CAS, a thermostat, and a few other features, I could've overlooked its art style too. I don't like ultra realistic either but I'll take that over cartoonish, unless the cartoonish one has better gameplay. The reason I was drawn to The Sims wasn't because of how the sims look but because of who I could create them to be, that I had so much control, and that there was no set guidelines or rules. Those tend to be my favorite games.
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  • CynnaCynna Posts: 2,369 Member
    edited October 2019

    I guess preferences I like sims 3 designs better than 4.The Sims midlevel look awesome.As for your other point it's too early to tell what the graphics are like.

    Yep.

    I really don't understand the focus on the art style of a game that is so early in development. In some early screenshots, TS4's graphics, art style, and UI were a lot different (worse) than what the game launched with. In other shots, the game looked better. For example, does anyone remember earlier shots of TS4 which included individual blades of grass? The game released with a muddy, flat texture instead. Things can change.

    At this point, I hope that Masse keeps his focus on mechanics and gameplay. Once that's nailed down, the art style can be improved or completely changed.

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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited October 2019
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    Sliders. And in this case a default CC skin. Liking the art style or not is preference, but the right guy is not a plastic potatoe, that’s a human face. I’ve always liked/loved my sims in Sims 3, their looks, so I don’t quite get why people keep bringing that up as if it’s some objective argument. And even if they were all ugly, how does that improve Sims 4?
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  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Cynna wrote: »

    I guess preferences I like sims 3 designs better than 4.The Sims midlevel look awesome.As for your other point it's too early to tell what the graphics are like.

    Yep.

    I really don't understand the focus on the art style of a game that is so early in development. In some early screenshots, TS4's graphics, art style, and UI were a lot different (worse) than what the game launched with. In other shots, the game looked better. For example, does anyone remember earlier shots of TS4 which included individual blades of grass? The game released with a muddy, flat texture instead. Things can change.

    At this point, I hope that Masse keeps his focus on mechanics and gameplay. Once that's nailed down, the art style can be improved or completely changed.
    Oh I asked about that. It was explained to me by the Gurus that was Sims 4 test set in an Unity engine. So yeah I guess even Sims 4 looks better with Unity too. I loved seeing the pictures of the Sims in Unity too.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • invisiblgirlinvisiblgirl Posts: 1,709 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
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    Sliders. And in this case a default CC skin. Liking the art style or not is preference, but the right guy is not a plastic potatoe, that’s a human face. I’ve always liked/loved my sims in Sims 3, their looks, so I don’t quite get why people keep bringing that up as if it’s some objective argument. And even if they were all ugly, how does that improve Sims 4?

    CC skin. That's the difference. And my Sims still looked like pudding, no matter what I did. I have no hand-eye coordination, and can't be bothered with updating cc and mods with every patch, so it's nice to be able to create a decent Sim in a few minutes. So yes, that's an improvement over frustrated attempts to create a Sim that was never going to look the way I wanted her to look. CAS is part of the game, and it's much easier to use in S4 than it was in S3.

    The original point, though, is that graphics do matter. I want my life-simulator to look somewhat lifelike - otherwise, you might as well be playing a text-only game. If I've got a plant, I want it look like a plant, not a patch of green pixels. And again, I don't think that's necessarily a mark against Paralives - it's early stages yet, and you need graphics and animation artists for that part. On the other hand, you also need the game play, and it hasn't shown any of that, either.
    I just want things to match. :'(
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    I dislike the eyebrows in TS4 very, very much. You know why? Because I can't thicken them or thin them (sliders) and why can't I? Why must I choose Maxis thickness. Yes, I can change the ends' shape or bring them a little closer (I could do that in TS2) but I can't thin them or if one is the right shape for my Sim I can't thicken it for a guy etc. This aggravates me sooooo much. I need like fifteen more sliders in TS4's CAS. And something else that bug me about TS4 in the game, once I put that specially built Sim into my game, the animations are so across the board that gee what happened to his slightly hook nose?? Disappeared and hardly noticable unless I really, really exaggerate it in CAS. And wow, there is my female looking like all other females when she decides to look up to her right and do that grin. Nope CAS is still not all it should be in my opinion and with a broad sweep of animatons one Sim looks just like another to me in TS4. The bone structure changes to a default one once in game and animations are applied.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    sM2QPe1.png

    Sliders. And in this case a default CC skin. Liking the art style or not is preference, but the right guy is not a plastic potatoe, that’s a human face. I’ve always liked/loved my sims in Sims 3, their looks, so I don’t quite get why people keep bringing that up as if it’s some objective argument. And even if they were all ugly, how does that improve Sims 4?

    CC skin. That's the difference. And my Sims still looked like pudding, no matter what I did. I have no hand-eye coordination, and can't be bothered with updating cc and mods with every patch, so it's nice to be able to create a decent Sim in a few minutes. So yes, that's an improvement over frustrated attempts to create a Sim that was never going to look the way I wanted her to look. CAS is part of the game, and it's much easier to use in S4 than it was in S3.

    The original point, though, is that graphics do matter. I want my life-simulator to look somewhat lifelike - otherwise, you might as well be playing a text-only game. If I've got a plant, I want it look like a plant, not a patch of green pixels. And again, I don't think that's necessarily a mark against Paralives - it's early stages yet, and you need graphics and animation artists for that part. On the other hand, you also need the game play, and it hasn't shown any of that, either.
    No, this particular CC skin improves their faces slightly (makes them a tiny bit more realistic but doesn’t alter their cheeks for instance), it’s mainly sliders (as you can clearly see when comparing it to the left guy that has the same CC). Same guy without and with the skin:

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    I actually prefer him vanilla, probably because that’s how I played him (his generation). I don’t want CC that changes the Maxis look too much. I do agree CAS is harder in Sims 3 than in 4, though I find it harder where it comes to making them look unique than to avoid the puffy look. CAS in Sims 4 is great by the way, but it’s actually the art style that spoils that once you start playing them. Then they end up all looking the same, even more so than in Sims 3. I also agree it does matter what they look like in Sims 3 and 4, because both games are very storytelling focused. Paralives I think is not (like Sims 1 and 2 weren’t). In a game that focuses on gameplay/challenges, looks will be less important. I think.
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  • RhiLTCRhiLTC Posts: 20 Member
    The Sims series was sort of doomed to lose quality. When a creative product becomes big enough, creative control is always handed to people who make the safest possible decisions that protect profits. At least the Sims can stick around as the "generic" sim game that will inspire other game developers to take more risks.
  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 35,708 Member
    Yes! Imagine being able to adjust heights. 😱 Not sure how that would effect animations. 🤔
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Yes! Imagine being able to adjust heights. 😱 Not sure how that would effect animations. 🤔
    There are mods to adjust height. It is actually pretty interesting playing around with it with the Sims 4. Only reason why I see teens were same height as adults is for people who use more adult type mods for interactions between adults and teens actually.

    http://modthesims.info/d/588159/height-slider.html
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    Yes! Imagine being able to adjust heights. 😱 Not sure how that would effect animations. 🤔
    I’ve always wondered if they could make it work to sort of ‘attach’ hands and arms and heads to the hands and arms and heads of other sims, the way the eyes of sims in Sims 3 are automatically drawn towards other sims, even causing to turn their head. If that’s possible, height wouldn’t matter anymore as far as animations are concerned.
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  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Yes! Imagine being able to adjust heights. 😱 Not sure how that would effect animations. 🤔
    I’ve always wondered if they could make it work to sort of ‘attach’ hands and arms and heads to the hands and arms and heads of other sims, the way the eyes of sims in Sims 3 are automatically drawn towards other sims, even causing to turn their head. If that’s possible, height wouldn’t matter anymore as far as animations are concerned.
    Why I would love to have facial recognition software in the future for the Sims. That way animations can be easier to simulate for different heights and body types. I noticed there are many CAS items that sadly still clip with curvy body types with the Sims 4. I like the idea of heads and arms attaching to Sims. Would make them feel more intimate especially when cuddling in bed together.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 35,708 Member
    I was thinking mainly about characters interacting with objects. There would have to be an awful lot of animations to account for different height characters interacting with those objects.
  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 3,170 Member
    So looking at a tweet.(I don't know how to link tweets) .He is saying the paralive characters are not ready to be seen yet.He said they are going to be a different style, and more customobilize options.I can't wait.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited October 2019
    I was thinking mainly about characters interacting with objects. There would have to be an awful lot of animations to account for different height characters interacting with those objects.
    Not if they could make it work the same way. The way a sim in 3 will not only turn their head automatically towards other sims, but also to look at a wall lamp (not sure why they insist on doing that but they do). It tells me there is a way to add ‘triggers’ to objects and parts of a body.
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  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 35,708 Member
    I'm just wondering if characters will have the same animations and the objects will change. Like dressers, beds, easels, counters. I've never used any height slider mods so curious to know how that would work.
  • CynnaCynna Posts: 2,369 Member
    edited October 2019
    Scobre wrote: »
    Cynna wrote: »

    I guess preferences I like sims 3 designs better than 4.The Sims midlevel look awesome.As for your other point it's too early to tell what the graphics are like.

    Yep.

    I really don't understand the focus on the art style of a game that is so early in development. In some early screenshots, TS4's graphics, art style, and UI were a lot different (worse) than what the game launched with. In other shots, the game looked better. For example, does anyone remember earlier shots of TS4 which included individual blades of grass? The game released with a muddy, flat texture instead. Things can change.

    At this point, I hope that Masse keeps his focus on mechanics and gameplay. Once that's nailed down, the art style can be improved or completely changed.
    Oh I asked about that. It was explained to me by the Gurus that was Sims 4 test set in an Unity engine. So yeah I guess even Sims 4 looks better with Unity too. I loved seeing the pictures of the Sims in Unity too.

    I'm not a person who follows what type of engine a game is based on exactly. However, if Unity is what brought TS4 that level of detail, maybe they should have stuck with that engine. If they decided to forego that level of detail in order to provide better gameplay, it would have been a decent trade-off. Yet, it doesn't look as if that was the case either. :/
    RhiLTC wrote: »
    The Sims series was sort of doomed to lose quality. When a creative product becomes big enough, creative control is always handed to people who make the safest possible decisions that protect profits. At least the Sims can stick around as the "generic" sim game that will inspire other game developers to take more risks.

    We can hope! I think that's why so many, including myself, are keeping an eye on Paralives. It's an indie game that has the ability to be as creative and/or detailed as the designer(s) want it to be. There's no suit with a calculator and stock options breathing down his neck. Paralives seems to be a labor of love.

    To me, that is the ingredient that has been missing from TS4. Nowadays, design appears to be more a matter of expedience as opposed to creating the best game possible, a game that the designers would want to play themselves.
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    I'm just wondering if characters will have the same animations and the objects will change. Like dressers, beds, easels, counters. I've never used any height slider mods so curious to know how that would work.
    Yes, that’s true, the object would have to react... Well, it would be great if it were possible but maybe not.
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  • CynnaCynna Posts: 2,369 Member
    edited October 2019
    I'm just wondering if characters will have the same animations and the objects will change. Like dressers, beds, easels, counters. I've never used any height slider mods so curious to know how that would work.

    I've been reading about so many topics, perhaps I made up the following: I could have sworn that I read somewhere that the creator of Paralives is looking into a kind of technology that will adjust or create animations on the fly.

    I'm not a tech person, by any means, yet I made the same type of suggestion on these forums a while back. TS4 has a rig with bones that are used to create animations. What if certain points of the rig were coded to interact with certain points on an object or on another Sim?

    At the time, I think that I referred to it as "docking". No matter the size of the Sim perhaps they can be coded to bend, crouch, or reach up, in order for a certain point on its rig to dock with a certain point on an object, or even on another Sim. For example, if two Sims of disparate sizes are supposed to kiss, the required docking points would be on their lips. The game would calculate how much adjustment needs to be made to a standard animation in order to make those points meet. Animations could be created in advance that would operate on a scale within prescribed limits.

    Anyway, as I said, I'm not a tech person. Yet, if something like that could be coded, it would revolutionize the game, making allowances for Sims of various sizes as well as making it possible for the game to have a more gradual growth cycle.

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  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Cynna wrote: »

    I'm not a person who follows what type of engine a game is based on exactly. However, if Unity is what brought TS4 that level of detail, maybe they should have stuck with that engine. If they decided to forego that level of detail in order to provide better gameplay, it would have been a decent trade-off. Yet, it doesn't look as if that was the case either. :/
    Yeah majority of games are made with Unreal and Unity engines and are often more stable in coding. Sims team built their own engine for the Sims 4.

    The strength of Unity Engine is the water for sure. I have played Sea of Thieves and just the experience with the ocean is so beautiful even with that game having more cartoon aspects to it like the Sims.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGogFt4bhTM
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • CynnaCynna Posts: 2,369 Member
    edited October 2019
    Scobre wrote: »
    Cynna wrote: »

    I'm not a person who follows what type of engine a game is based on exactly. However, if Unity is what brought TS4 that level of detail, maybe they should have stuck with that engine. If they decided to forego that level of detail in order to provide better gameplay, it would have been a decent trade-off. Yet, it doesn't look as if that was the case either. :/
    Yeah majority of games are made with Unreal and Unity engines and are often more stable in coding. Sims team built their own engine for the Sims 4.

    The strength of Unity Engine is the water for sure. I have played Sea of Thieves and just the experience with the ocean is so beautiful even with that game having more cartoon aspects to it like the Sims.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGogFt4bhTM

    Ah, that's the Unity engine? The water in Sea of Thieves is epic! Even during sea battles, the effects are stunning. <3
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  • OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 4,973 Member
    As a used to be professional sailor back when I was several decades younger, I can attest to how well the sea is done! I was amazed by how much it lookes like the real ocean and how the ship responds to the water's movement. A taste of home way back when! Great music in that clip, too.

    To Cinebar's point, I'm another that misses the TS2 sliders. EA can say all it wants, but I have much more control over facial features with the sliders than with what TS4 offers. Not to mention the ability to mix and match overall faces - 26x25x9 beats 19 any day.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited October 2019
    Cynna wrote: »

    Ah, that's the Unity engine? The water in Sea of Thieves is epic! Even during sea battles, the effects are stunning. <3
    Yeah it is pretty amazing. I have a friend who was self teaching himself Unity since he's been developing a mobile game. I really enjoy chats with him and we had a nice chat about Unity and Unreal engines and he's been telling me about them. Sea of Thieves is really fun, but much more enjoyable playing with friends since it is a MMO game. It can be played single player too, just more dangerous sailing on your own with sharks and giant squids and other pirate ships.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
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