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The Comparison Thread

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Warning: This is going to be a long read. Set some time aside if you plan to go through it all.

Seeing as a new rule on the forum forbids comparisons between games to a heavy extent I have decided to create this thread, where users are free to compare The Sims 4 to any other game in the series in any way. Miss a feature from previous games? Think 4 is lacking depth compared to them? Feel free to post your qualms here.

I grew up with the series from a very young age - I was four when my older brother first showed me The Sims, back when characters were polygon monsters. He gave me his incomplete collection later, which I finished, and then shortly after The Sims 2 came out and the rest is history. I've been with the series from the start and it has a special place in my library; I still play all four titles in my spare time.

I care about this series. I criticise it out of love. The Sims 4's greatest flaw is that The Sims 2 and The Sims 3 exist. My argument here is not that The Sims 4 should be a clone of previous entries, but that it dropped many features pertaining to the Sims as characters and suffers as a result.

To kick off this thread and hopefully shed light on why so many denizens of the feedback forum have gripes, I'm going to discuss how Sims themselves as individuals were far more potent in The Sims 2 than they are in The Sims 4. From this point on I will abbreviate any iteration titles to save some space and time.

What makes a Sim unique? In TS4 that would be their traits, of which there are initially 3, but many of these traits are simply moodlet triggers. There are objects in this game that trigger the same emotional responses as personality traits. With how the emotions system in TS4 works, Sims are slaves to whatever emotion they are currently experiencing. All Sims react in the same way to the same emotions. For example, all sad Sims will talk to themselves in the mirror or cry it out.

Useless-Traits.png

Now lets compare this to TS2. The personality features that make a Sim unique in this iteration are as follows:
- Their 25 Personality Points/Star Sign
- Their Aspiration
- Their Wants & Fears
- The Chemistry System
- Gender Preference
- Interests
- Memories


Many of us know what these systems are and what they do, but what you may be surprised by is just how deep these actually are as mechanics in the game. Let's go through them all one by one so I can illustrate this fact. Some of these features were carried over to The Sims 3's trait system but many have since been lost.

25 Personality Points
This is the system that determines your Sim's personality and how they behave initially. You have five scales to assign a limited number of points to, with each scale being rated by the game from 0 to 10.00. The scales are:

Neatness, Outgoingness, Activeness, Playfulness and Niceness.

Each scale having room for 10 points whilst the player only has 25 points to allocate means you have to choose carefully to create the Sim you want. Each scale is split into three levels: 0-2, 3-7 and 8-10. Personality extremes take place in the 0-2 and 8-10 marks whilst the 3-7 mark exhibits more mild behaviour.

Your Sim's personality, based on how you assigned points, would determine their actions and their animations. Some examples of behaviour are listed below, but this is where things get surprisingly in depth.

0-2 Neatness
Sims are very sloppy and objects they use get dirty faster. They will almost always leave puddles on the floor after having a bath or a shower. They finish meals faster due to having no table manners. They can rummage in the trash for things and have less qualms with dirty rooms. Their hygiene need decays faster and they lose more fun when cleaning. They may autonomously eat spoiled food. They are not impacted by low hygiene and, in fact, find it funny. They learn the cleaning skill slower.

8-10 Neatness
Sims enjoy cleaning and gain fun when tidying anything. They will clean up after themselves and gain a unique interaction to groom themselves in front of a mirror for a hygiene boost. They take longer to finish meals due to having good table manners. Their hygiene decays slower. Any objects they clean will sparkle afterwards, after which they will take longer to become dirty again. These Sims are afraid of using public restrooms. They learn the cleaning skill faster.

0-2 Outgoingness
Sims are very shy and if you tell them to do anything outgoing they will grimace at the camera. These Sims will often wring their hands when walking as an indicator of their shyness. They are afraid of diving into pools, activities like karaoke and dislike having their photo taken. Their social need decays more slowly and they enjoy talking online more than face to face. When dancing they shuffle awkwardly. They learn the charisma skill slower. Admiring one of these Sims will make them react very shyly. These Sims gain creativity faster when painting.

8-10 Outgoingness
Sims are crazy. Their social bar will decay quickly. These Sims will always skinny dip if possible and have no issue with using bathroom objects in front of other Sims. These Sims will not automatically change into their Everyday outfit when leaving their home lot, unlike all other Sims. Outgoing Sims will be more likely to visit your house even if they do not know your Sim. When walking into a room, these Sims will acknowledge any other Sims present with a quick point animation. When dancing they look like they're in Saturday Night Fever. They enjoy the romance channel on TV. They learn the charisma skill faster. Admiring one of these Sims will make them admire themselves to.

0-2 Activeness
Sims slouch when standing still. Their energy need decays faster and refills slower, meaning you can expect them to spend a fair amount of time in bed. They will walk to a destination even if it is far away. Their comfort need decays faster too, meaning they can be best kept happy on a nice sofa in front of the TV. Their hunger need decays slower. They build the body skill more slowly but build the logic skill more quickly due to how logic involves less hectic activities. The less active a Sim is, the less their energy has to drop before they can go to bed.

8-10 Activeness
Sims are very active and can run anywhere at any time. They build the body skill quickly due to their active natures but their hunger need decays faster as well. Their fitness bar will also increase more quickly via exercise meaning these Sims have an easier time staying slim. These Sims enjoy the action channel on TV.

0-2 Playfulness
Sims are very serious and prefer activities like reading over playing games or watching TV. They enjoy activities such as chess or using a telescope and will gain logic faster from such activities, and may get more fun out of the TV if the news is on. These Sims are less likely to accept invitations to join games of any kind from other Sims.

8-10 Playfulness
These Sims are hyper and can jump on sofas, play in bathtubs and swing from fridge doors. They gain the ability to skip as well as walk or run starting at 5 points. They like watching cartoons on TV but, if they are at 8 points or above, cannot partake in meditation due to a lack of focus. These Sims enjoy telling jokes and will tell them instead of practicing their speech when using items like podiums. Pair high playfulness with low niceness and you get a bully - the Sim will greatly enjoy teasing and making fun of others. Playful Sims build charisma faster if they talk to a pet bird and build creativity faster if playing instruments or writing novels.

0-2 Niceness
Sims are very grouchy and more likely to react negatively from any kind of social interaction. They are very likely to initiate mean interactions with Sims they don't know well. Non-played grouchy Sims may turn up at your lot and kick your trashcan, steal your newspaper or even your garden gnomes. They are more likely to cheat when playing games and are more likely to try and hurt others when partaking in things like snowball fights. These Sims practice lecturing rather than practicing speaking at podiums. They enjoy the horror channel on TV. When talking to others you can expect to see them with their arms folded as they look miserable.

8-10 Niceness
Sims are much kinder to others and will respond positively to many social interactions, even if the other Sim is talking about something they're not interested in or if they don't know the other Sim very well. These Sims will not retaliate if they are targeted by mean interactions. They will appear much more enthusiastic when talking to other Sims, nodding and smiling.

Personality points in TS2 decided how your Sim responded to different kinds of relationships, what animations they used when walking and talking, how they responded to different events, what activities they could and couldn't do, how they built skills and at what pace they built skills, how they moved and how their needs behaved. This worked on an individual point basis - so for instance, a Sim with 5 points in Playfulness would build logic faster than a Sim with 6, whilst a Sim with only 4 would build it faster still.

Aspiration Bar / Wants & Fears
This is where the gameplay lacking depth in TS4 comes in. In TS2 you couldn't just give your Sim a personality and then ignore it - you had to back it up with action and there were serious consequences if you didn't. Whims in TS4 are so useless that they're currently turned off by default, whereas Wants in TS2 are integral to your Sim's life and the game, whilst they're also backed up by the Fears system.

Your Sim's aspiration determined what it was they wanted in life. Was your Sim family oriented? In search of romance? Looking for knowledge? Seeking popularity? Or did they just want to have fun or make tonnes of cash? Whatever you chose would subsequently largely steer the wants and fears system that was tied directly to it.

Your Sim had four wants at any one time and three fears. These were rolled either when your Sim woke up in the morning, when one was completed so it could be replaced or when visiting a new location. What Wants and Fears your Sim got were determined by their aspiration, age, current location, the current season, their relationships, recent events, their life state, hobbies, skills and interests. You could only lock in ONE Want OR Fear at any one time, so you had to think carefully.

- Completing your Freshman year at University earned a fifth Want slot.
- Graduating from University unlocks a sixth Want slot.
- Expulsion from University unlocks a fourth Fear slot.
- Completing your Junior year at University earned a second lock.


Completing a Want fills the Aspiration Bar whilst completing a Fear lowers it. The bar decays slowly over time on its own meaning that you would have to address your Sim's wants regularly. Filling the bar also earns points to spend on rewards whilst lowering it subtracts points.

The older your Sim was the more points would be required to fill up the bar. Toddlers only need 3000 whilst Elders needed 15,000. When full the bar is platinum, when empty it is red. Sims who die with platinum level receive a special, gold lined gravestone.

In deep red your Sim starts exhibiting aspiration failure. This manifests in several forms:

If your Sim is a teenager or child they will begin acting out, breaking things or fighting with family members and throwing tantrums.

- Family Sims cradle a sack of flour and cuddle it like an actual baby.
- Fortune Sims panhandle for Simoleons.
- Knowledge Sims turn a football into a professor with a hat on and attempt to learn from it.
- Popularity Sims make friends out of paper cups.
- Romance Sims dance, cuddle and kiss a sponge mop.
- Pleasure Sims put a lampshade on their head and dance.


And most importantly:
- Grilled Cheese Sims draw their beloved food on cardboard and then eat it.

Ignore these aspiration failures and let the bar empty and your Sim will have a mental breakdown, at which point they can no longer function. Don't worry - the therapist shows up and kicks their aspiration bar back up ever so slightly with ground breaking treatment, such as making them act like a chicken.

Completing your Sim's lifetime wish would render the bar permanently platinum. Later this was nerfed - the bar still fills up entirely but it does decay, albeit it extremely slowly for the rest of that Sim's life.

Rewards purchased with aspiration points included a helmet to make Sims learn skills faster, special milk to make Toddlers learn life skills faster, the Eclectic Energiser that would completely fill all of your needs (great potato powered machinery) and the Elixir Of Life, which made you younger, and more. HOWEVER - if your Sim uses any of these rewards whilst their bar is not at at least gold level (one under platinum) there is a chance of failure where the objects will have the opposite effect (death by potato powered machinery plum).

Your Sim's wants and personality mattered and had a huge impact on gameplay.

The Chemistry System
Chemistry came with any and all packs starting with Nightlife early in TS2's run. It is essentially an attractiveness system used to measure relationships, and it meant that all Sims had different tastes. Your Sim couldn't just date any other Sim.

If your Sim has high chemistry with another Sim then they will get on much more easily and be able to use more powerful socials earlier in a relationship. Sims with no chemistry took hits to their relationship and would be more likely to have bad reactions to socials.

It affected autonomy considerably in terms of interactions and socials, but also had more subtle effects. Let's say Sim A has just made their dinner and is in the dining room with plenty of seats to choose. Sim B, who Sim A has high chemistry with, is further along in the living room. Sim A will sit and eat in the living room and bypass closer seats because they want to be with Sim B.

Chemistry is determined by the following points:
- Aspirations
- Star Signs
- Turn Ons & Turn Offs
- Divine Matchmaker Intervention

It worked on a numbered system with tags being added at the -25 mark up to the 90 mark. -25 or less meant no chemistry whilst 90 meant three bolts of chemistry. Two bolts was 35-89 and one bolt was 1-24. The following features had effects:

Mini-Chemistry.png

Clearly a lot of thought went into this system and later expansions all added to it in little ways. In TS4 anyone can date anyone regardless of anything.

Gender Preference
On the subject of relationships, here we have the Gender Preference system from TS2 and TS3. This system gave your Sim a hardcoded sexuality that played directly into the above chemistry system - multiple systems all working together to create a dynamic character.

Gender-Preference.png

Interests
But by far the most interesting part of characters in TS2 is, ironically, the Interests system. This actually originated in TS and was carried over to TS2, after which it disappeared into the void. With this system you could make two Sims with identical personalities and they would respond to the same interactions differently.
Interests-Panel.png

Interests determined what a Sim would talk about during questions and they would influence your Sim's autonomy. If two Sims were talking about a topic they found interesting then the conversation would go well and lots of points would be gained, whilst if one Sim didn't find the topic interesting then the conversation would go poorly. Learning a Sim's interests and then talking to them about them was a productive endeavour as a result.

Initial interests were assigned randomly but could be changed through many means. For example, a Sim in the political career will become interested in politics, a Sim who works out a lot will become interested in sports and so on. How interested in a subject your Sim was measured by points. Gain a point in one and you will lose a point in a random, other interest.

You could have a Sim with no interest in sport. Tell them to work out and they will gradually develop an interest. They will start talking about it other Sims and potentially make new friends from a new crowd. Left alone, your Sim will watch sport on TV or autonomously work out. Interests changed your Sim over the course of their lives. You could shape these directly or simply sit back and watch. Pets even had their own interests too.

Memories
Lastly we have the memories system, which recorded all of the important events in a Sim's life into a unique panel. TS3 version of this was a cluttered mess but TS2 version is a much loved feature.

Memories are stored in the Simology tab and come in either positive form (green) or negative form (red). Memories are often talked about by Sims, with positive memories being the subject of chatting and negative ones being the subject of gossip. These were separate from the Interests system and so Sims would generally be open to talking about them.
Memories-Banner.png


Your Sim's aspiration effected the nature of memories. What might be a positive memory for one Sim might be a negative one for another Sim and vice versa. For example, Sims will find getting married to be a positive event, but Sims with the romance aspiration will find it quite horrifying as they want to free to flirt with many Sims at once. Sims may have horrible memories of seeing a ghost or being abducted by aliens, but a Sim with the knowledge aspiration may find these events fascinating.

Conclusion
TS4 lacks so many features when it comes to what makes Sims unique, and this is a problem because the series is called The Sims. Being able to make great looking characters is worthless when those characters are skin deep when it comes to detail. Sims in TS2 were dynamic and changed over the course of their lives with influences from so many different areas. It doesn't matter if we're getting magic, or if we get University or anything else - if the core of the series, the Sims themselves, is boring then no amount of content will make the game interesting for a good length of time for many people.

When a member of the old guard says that TS4 lacks depth, ^^^^^ that's what they mean.

I haven't even started on build mode, TS3 comparisons or Will Wright yet either.
DJsVk3j.png
Simming since 2000

Comments

  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 14,016 Member
    Great thread. Also applicable to features we'd like to see in the next iteration.
    If you focus on all that is awful you will miss all that is wonderful.
  • sueplayssimssueplayssims Posts: 123 Member
    Yep, relationships and personalities need a big overhaul. I've said it before in other threads but sometimes it's difficult to get immersed in gameplay when Sims are so similar in every way that you end up having to make up your own little quirks for them! As for build mode, shame we only got the customisable stairs now.

    I'd also like a better selection of base game careers like military for example, but now comes in Strangerville
  • TomasGrizzlyTomasGrizzly Posts: 316 Member
    A nice effort you put into this comparison. Of all the stuff I consider missing the most is a decent attraction and gender preference system. By my hazy memory, TS3 had some absurdness in that aspect - once you had enough money, you were attractive to anyone. TS3 also acted seemingly on random, especially with Generations - sometimes I had an NPC of the same sex hit on my sim during the prom events - which is a nightmare for a generational player like me (when my primary goal of playing is to secure the next generation, something that can realistically be only done by heterosexual relationships).
    On the other hand, I think zodiac signs are overrated nonsense and so is them having an impact on attraction.

    You're right on traits being a weak point of TS4. Not just because the mood can be 'outvoted' by objects around but also by a much lower amount of traits and much lower trait-based gameplay. In TS3, the 'lucky' trait could lead to promotion a bit sooner than filling the bar. Brave trait gave better chances to win against a burglar (which is completely missing in TS4) or to extinguish a fire. 'Loves the outdoors' had a direct impact on gardening. Etc.
    Then, all the sims in TS4 (unless you have the storm chaser reward trait) react to storm all the same (by tense debuff), there's no variance. I have yet to find whether there's any logic to when a sim comes from work with the tense debuff (at varying magnitude) or if it's pure randomness.
    So, yes, of all the issues with TS4, lack of depth is the major one.
  • DragonCat159DragonCat159 Posts: 1,789 Member
    edited September 8
    "Sim(ology) Comparison Thread" title would fit more.
    Seeing as a new rule on the forum forbids comparisons between games to a heavy extent I have decided to create this thread, where users are free to compare The Sims 4 to any other game in the series in any way.
    Don't know when it's by 'heavy extent', but such regulation doesn't make sense nor it's something that can be avoided (because, again - it doesn't make sense to not compare them). Though, as I heard from other sports, that rule doesn't always apply (measurements taken) if previous games get bad impression than TS4 unless it was vice versa. If that's true, than it should be rewritten and specify so it's doesn't look like it has agenda. I digress, so back to topic.

    I really doubt, and maybe some of you do too, the extend of how far TS2 went is beyond the possibility to repeat itself in the latest game. Somebody akin or Will Wright himself with the same vision and given control would have jump in to return old or give new to Sims the dynamics/personality they deserve. Be it expanded or old.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 31,024 Member
    Another layer of personality was thought bubbles. Those were not just some willy nilly, random animation. Besides the wants in the Sim panel which was a reflection of personality, aspiration/LTW and favorites and fears was the thought bubble. Sims memory was long, and their desires were not all contained in the wish/want panel but often expressed in a thought bubble.

    Wondering what your Sim was thinking about at any point of time in the day? And not look at the want/wish panel? You could watch the thought bubble and see what was really on their mind which most of the time may not have anything to do with personality, LTW, fear, favorite/likes, but what had happened, what they wanted to happen, what they were seeing at the moment and or what they had learned, remembered, and or achieved.

    The keen sense of reality, what was happening in the game was very intricate. It's a much better system than the buff system of TS4.
    Many people have asked why the Sim has a line drawn through a Sim's face in their thought bubble. It may be they too are thinking of going to the bathroom but somone else has beat them to it, or they may think it was rude behavior to leave the room to use the bathroom at a social gathering, or any other number of reasons, while others were more desperate to use the bathroom who may be present.

    Usually something like this is not seen on community lots, where there may be more stalls available or even one bathroom stall. But Sims may have this thought when in a home. They left the table to go to the bathroom, they left a conversation to use the bathroom, they went to the bathroom when your Sim and or another needed it more.

    That is just one example of a thought bubble and what it might mean for many different reasons.

    Sims may think of someone long since dead or someone they want to see right at that moment or even if that Sim is in the area. To me thought bubbles were a great tool for me in TS2. It told me what they were thinking at that very moment and sometimes often suprised me.

    The most evident is when other Sims see a Sim with the Popular Aspiration all Sim in the area will let you know by a thought bubble the Sim entering the room has a life time want of Popularity. But there are dozens of other reasons Sims have thought bubbles and not just related to LTWs of other Sims.

    In one case one Sim was thinking of seeing a partner so I had him call them up to invite over. Not long after, he thought to see another girl friend, so they were invited, too, and then a third and a fourth. It was not a happy occasion when they all were expecting his attention, his favor, and like radar figured out why he knew all this ladies and all mayhem broke out. Thought bubbles were one of the best things about the game that so many missed and turned off so they could take screen shots, but a thick layer of prodding gameplay and letting the player see inside the mind of the Sim who was more than just a tool for a buff system.

    Not all Sims thought about their aspiration or their job or their partner. But the bird they see outside the window, the Sim they saw in the next house (yes even though we couldn't see them), while they used a telescope and or looked out a window< (for comfort). Some would think about reaching the top of the career or LTW by having the thought they had made it or wished ot make it to the top. Though this want may not even be in the want panel. Some thought about playing a game, though they may fear something or not like something, because they were very aware of their surroundings and the object was present on the lot. Not all Sims went crazy about and had thoughts about new things in new EPs.
    But stuck to their traits and personality and may never have a thought of using a new object or doing a new activity.

    They also had thoughts due to their aspirations but sometimes they slipped in one telling you they wished to switch jobs or do something else. Paying attention to thought bubbles was one of the most intricate parts of the game if anyone took the time to see behind the surface and not turn them off. And many time had nothing to do with the want or fear system but it's own system.

    Games Sims played in TS2 were real games, they had a beginning, a middle and an end. Chess, pool, and other such games were literally real and developers talked about how they implemented those to particular outcomes, and how many versions of an outcome etc. And it may depend on the Sim who is playing, too. Unlike bowling in TS4 which is mainly a set of animations.

    Sexual preference which TS4 players have been begging for since 2014 and not particularly gender patch but more of a gender preference is one of the most loved things about TS1 and TS2. Especially, TS2. Once you chose the preference of your Sim you would never again have to worry about them switching on you because someone else in the room was feeling romantic. Nor come back to your Sims to find out one had an affair with the same sex or opposite sex like we see in TS4. Those who had a preference set by the player would refuse the admiration of another Sim of same sex or opposite sex depending on your choice. You rule.

    True the food fight at table would make another Sim have a crush on your Sim, but if your Sim had a preference more than not they were gong to refuse any futher interactions but it might make it easier for you if you wished for them to change preferences by using the food fight under romantic intereactions at table. But it was still going to be a lot of work. And that is how it should be in my opinion. Preference chosen by a flirt with a Sim and preference set. No need to worry the game was going to change your Sim.

    I'll add more later.











    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 14,016 Member
    I don't do any storytelling or blogging now but back in the day when I did I was ecstatic when my sims' thought bubbles aligned with whatever story I was playing out. And also provided ideas for subsequent gameplay.
    If you focus on all that is awful you will miss all that is wonderful.
  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 1,589 Member
    I don't do any storytelling or blogging now but back in the day when I did I was ecstatic when my sims' thought bubbles aligned with whatever story I was playing out. And also provided ideas for subsequent gameplay.

    Speaking of thought bubbles .I been playing sims 3 ,and it astonishes me how much more real they are in 3 . My sims awere thinking about a person they just met. My female auttomactally want to tell a female sim about gardening . Since she had the trait.
  • PrincipleOfEntropyPrincipleOfEntropy Posts: 297 Member
    By my hazy memory, TS3 had some absurdness in that aspect

    There were a few instances where TS3 tried to carry on some old mechanics without much success. They carried over gender preference (outside of random events like prom as you mention) very well but then things like the memories and, as you say, attractiveness were quite weak or messy. At least they made an effort.

    Traits in TS3 really were quite something. There were big effects, like with Brave Sims always being able to handle any kind of emergency or Unlucky Sims literally being unable to die of anything but old age because Grim found them too funny to reap early, but then I miss so many little touches too, like how a Clumsy Sim would drop the ring when proposing.

    Another thing from TS2 I really miss is how discussions actually had different animations depending on what Sims were talking about. A Sim talking about sport might pretend to swing a bat, a Sim talking about the military might pretend to shoot a gun, Sims talking about aliens might do impressions of them, Sims talking about fashion might strike poses and more. In TS4 so many interactions in the friendly section in particular are the same animations, just renamed.
    DJsVk3j.png
    Simming since 2000
  • fruitsbasket101fruitsbasket101 Posts: 797 Member
    Thank you for this thread. I was going to make one myself but you beat me to it.
    Have a super fantastic awesome splendid amazing day! -TheQxxn
  • PrincipleOfEntropyPrincipleOfEntropy Posts: 297 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Sims may think of someone long since dead or someone they want to see right at that moment or even if that Sim is in the area. To me thought bubbles were a great tool for me in TS2. It told me what they were thinking at that very moment and sometimes often suprised me.

    I can vouch for this 100%. In my most played family on TS2, which is a legacy family, my own Sim as part of the first generation built a Servo whilst my friend (who was my roommate) actually got married and started the family off. My Servo, Roberto, went on to watch over the family for countless generations. Point being, eight generations in when Roberto visited the family memorial lot for the first time, the first grave he visited was mine. Servo's are perfect examples of how effective memories really were, seeing as they lived forever. His memory panel is like an encyclopaedia on the family at this point.

    Thought bubbles really were quite something, you could learn a great deal about both your own Sims and other Sims simply by paying attention to them.
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Games Sims played in TS2 were real games, they had a beginning, a middle and an end. Chess, pool, and other such games were literally real and developers talked about how they implemented those to particular outcomes, and how many versions of an outcome etc. And it may depend on the Sim who is playing, too. Unlike bowling in TS4 which is mainly a set of animations.

    This! In TS2 you could watch a game of chess or pool from start to finish - every single individual move. That's what made it particularly interesting if you were playing with a grouchy Sim because you could see how they would try and cheat sometimes.

    You mention how players of TS4 have been asking for the gender preference system. I for one would have added it as part of the pride update. It would have had an actual impact on gameplay, unlike clothing or a wall decoration. Actual gameplay, actual representation, not just fluff.
    DJsVk3j.png
    Simming since 2000
  • CK213CK213 Posts: 18,196 Member
    This is so important. <3
    Playing the sims themselves is so underwhelming to me because they have barely there personality. Socializing with other sims is a dull affair.
    I only play when new content is added. And my interest falls after I've played with the features that interested me.

    This was clear to me when I learned more about Realm of Magic.
    Great, I can play my sims and get things going for when ROM comes out.
    Nope, I got bored and started playing Skyrim again. I will play when the pack comes out.
    I did a little building, but I have the build far enough along that all I need is the new ROM content.

    Personality and socialization is very important to me.
    In TS3, sims with conflicting traits lead to a downward spiral of decaying relationships if they continued to express their traits to sims who are opposite of their personality. And those trait conflicts were also built into the socials if you wanted to build up the drama. So a neat sim could complain about a sloppy sims messes and ask them to clean up. The sloppy sim, in turn, would not be happy about being called out like that. If you want them build up their relationship to the point where the difference doesn't matter as much, you have to dance around their trait conflicts. In TS4, I find myself driven to perform generic mean socials if I feel something has happened that should have my sim annoyed.

    I also have an issue how personality socials are buried in TS4:
    This is the social bloom for TS4.
    It's the same for all sims and you have to dig deep for socials unique to your sim.
    TS4_x64%202019-07-20%2011-46-49-75.jpg

    This is TS3 and notice the Special button at the bottom.
    TS3W%202019-07-20%2012-06-49-13.jpg

    Open that up and you have all the trait socials that makes your sim unqiue to other sims.
    TS3W%202019-07-20%2011-53-21-45.jpg

    You want their Irresistible interactions? You have all of them right there.
    TS3W%202019-07-20%2011-53-32-31.jpg

    Is it time to be more charismatic? There you are.
    TS3W%202019-07-20%2011-53-43-30.jpg

    If you want to use your TS4 sim's trait related socials you have to dig.
    TS4_x64%202019-07-20%2011-46-28-99.jpg

    And dig...
    TS4_x64%202019-07-20%2011-47-17-53.jpg

    And dig..., sifting through the common socials that all sims share as well.
    And then probably not finding what you want because they seem a bit random in popping up.
    TS4_x64%202019-07-20%2011-47-23-34.jpg

    I wish The Sims Studio would adapt this to TS4.
    Sim traits feels so watered down in this game.
    But I also find that sims don't display their uniqueness as much either. The other games have "personality tells".
    If you observe sims long enough, you can figure out their traits. You can certainly tell a Couch Potato in the Sims 3.
    They love sitting down on the couch or bed and enjoying some TV. I mean REALLY enjoying it.
    DU.png
  • MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 31,248 Member
    what about the toy ovens from the Sims 3? How about the children's games from the sims 2?
    kikWQMd.jpg
  • CynnaCynna Posts: 1,925 Member
    edited September 8
    Excellent post, OP. Nice job. :) Although, I doubt that the moderators will allow it to stay. :/
    CK213 wrote: »
    This is so important. <3
    Playing the sims themselves is so underwhelming to me because they have barely there personality. Socializing with other sims is a dull affair.
    I only play when new content is added. And my interest falls after I've played with the features that interested me.

    This was clear to me when I learned more about Realm of Magic.
    Great, I can play my sims and get things going for when ROM comes out.
    Nope, I got bored and started playing Skyrim again. I will play when the pack comes out.
    I did a little building, but I have the build far enough along that all I need is the new ROM content.

    Personality and socialization is very important to me.
    In TS3, sims with conflicting traits lead to a downward spiral of decaying relationships if they continued to express their traits to sims who are opposite of their personality. And those trait conflicts were also built into the socials if you wanted to build up the drama. So a neat sim could complain about a sloppy sims messes and ask them to clean up. The sloppy sim, in turn, would not be happy about being called out like that. If you want them build up their relationship to the point where the difference doesn't matter as much, you have to dance around their trait conflicts. In TS4, I find myself driven to perform generic mean socials if I feel something has happened that should have my sim annoyed.

    I also have an issue how personality socials are buried in TS4:
    This is the social bloom for TS4.
    It's the same for all sims and you have to dig deep for socials unique to your sim.
    TS4_x64%202019-07-20%2011-46-49-75.jpg

    This is TS3 and notice the Special button at the bottom.
    TS3W%202019-07-20%2012-06-49-13.jpg

    Open that up and you have all the trait socials that makes your sim unqiue to other sims.
    TS3W%202019-07-20%2011-53-21-45.jpg

    You want their Irresistible interactions? You have all of them right there.
    TS3W%202019-07-20%2011-53-32-31.jpg

    Is it time to be more charismatic? There you are.
    TS3W%202019-07-20%2011-53-43-30.jpg

    If you want to use your TS4 sim's trait related socials you have to dig.
    TS4_x64%202019-07-20%2011-46-28-99.jpg

    And dig...
    TS4_x64%202019-07-20%2011-47-17-53.jpg

    And dig..., sifting through the common socials that all sims share as well.
    And then probably not finding what you want because they seem a bit random in popping up.
    TS4_x64%202019-07-20%2011-47-23-34.jpg

    I wish The Sims Studio would adapt this to TS4.
    Sim traits feels so watered down in this game.
    But I also find that sims don't display their uniqueness as much either. The other games have "personality tells".
    If you observe sims long enough, you can figure out their traits. You can certainly tell a Couch Potato in the Sims 3.
    They love sitting down on the couch or bed and enjoying some TV. I mean REALLY enjoying it.

    It's true. TS4 requires so much pretending and so many workarounds in order for the gameplay to seem authenticate. The amount of energy that we have to expend, trying to make the game appear to be something that it isn't, is exhausting. It's a complete turn-off. That wasn't the case in previous games, especially TS2.

    I really want to love TS4. I type my fingers until they ache, trying to express what it is that the game needs to feel like a Sims game. However, I fear that it's falling on deaf ears. It's too late and we're probably already too far down the road. It's already the sixth year of TS4 and there has been no movement in the direction of improving the Sims' personalities.
    I3Ml5Om.jpg
  • Noree_DoreeNoree_Doree Posts: 1,345 Member
    Love this OP! reading things like this always make me want to launch my game lol
    CxDhQOn.gif
    "Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits, gerbits, vo gerbits!!!"
  • filipomelfilipomel Posts: 1,126 Member
    This is an excellent post.
    tumblr_muqh2tIOFV1r2uf3jo4_500.gif
  • Lady_BalloraLady_Ballora Posts: 264 Member
    Remember Sims 1? It was a good game! Here are the comparsions I'm making between Sims 1 and Sims 4:

    Sims 1 public lots were multi-purpse and ALWAYS full of lively people.

    Sims 4 public lots are almost void of life,and you're forced to use a pointless and silly little checklist just to make that lot work.


    In Sims 1,EA/Maxis made each public lot different;you could have a store and a diner on one lot,and on another lot,you could have a bar and a dance club.

    In Sims 4,you see the same boring base game venues being plunked into every single EP and GP that EA churns out. This is my number one gripe with Sims 4: Waaaay too many bars and libraries and other bade game venues in the packs. Did oyu run out of ideas for lot types/venues,EA?


    Sims 1 had really awesome things like Nancy the Paper Girl(if you had a dog,Nancy would scream and run away while your dog barked at her), raccoons and bears that were actaul animals, etc.

    Sims 4 has things like broken trait system, people in raccoon costumes/bear costumes, and overly-freindly Sims.


    Sims 1 had cats,dogs,fish,birds and reptiles as pets.

    Sims 4 just ha cats and dogs,and has a stuff pack with rodents and other things that should of been included in C & D.


    In Sims 1, it took only 7 seconds for Sims to eat a meal.

    In Sims 4,it takes a Sim about 10-20 minutes to eat a meal.


    Sims 1 had beautiful,vibrant neighborhoods with about 9-10 lots in each neighborhood.

    Sims 4 churns out tiny little worlds with 4-5 lots(Magnolia Promenade,Forgotten Hollw,Glimmerbrook,etc).The biggest world in Sims 4 is Windenburg.



    I'm hoping Sims 5 will have lots of Sims 1 elements in it.





  • TomasGrizzlyTomasGrizzly Posts: 316 Member
    I was woken by a storm this night and it made me remember another issue with TS4: sleep.
    First, in TS3, you could "drag out" the interaction and the sim would stay in bed until 6:00 or until 2hr before his carpool would arrive (whichever is sooner) - something I really miss in TS4. Does TS4 even have an alarm clock?
    Second, in TS3, sims could not just sleep through everything. Unless they had the heavy sleeper trait, a radio, TV, or a crying baby in the same room would wake them. Maybe a storm as well, not sure there. And there was the light sleeper trait as well, I believe, which made pretty much any noise potential wake-up for the sim.
    In Sims 1, it took only 7 seconds for Sims to eat a meal.

    In Sims 4,it takes a Sim about 10-20 minutes to eat a meal.

    Yep, eating takes an absurdly long time in TS4 even without multitasking.
  • PrincipleOfEntropyPrincipleOfEntropy Posts: 297 Member
    I was woken by a storm this night and it made me remember another issue with TS4: sleep.
    First, in TS3, you could "drag out" the interaction and the sim would stay in bed until 6:00 or until 2hr before his carpool would arrive (whichever is sooner) - something I really miss in TS4. Does TS4 even have an alarm clock?
    Second, in TS3, sims could not just sleep through everything. Unless they had the heavy sleeper trait, a radio, TV, or a crying baby in the same room would wake them. Maybe a storm as well, not sure there. And there was the light sleeper trait as well, I believe, which made pretty much any noise potential wake-up for the sim.

    I really miss that dragging of the interaction to make a Sim stay in bed until a specific time. I can't recall seeing an alarm clock, but I'm more surprised they didn't add an alarm function for phones seeing as every Sim is constantly using them.

    Light Sleeper made your Sim into an active burglar alarm. If one showed up on your lot and they were asleep they would immediately wake up. Another little thing about Heavy Sleeper was that your Sim wouldn't move in their sleep, they'd stay still on their backs as if they were in a coma or something.

    In TS2 you couldn't send a Sim to sleep if they had an energy bar that was a little over 3/4 full because they weren't tired. You'd have to wait for it to drop a little more first (unless they were lazy). So if your Sim got woken up in the morning by any means and their energy wasn't quite full they'd be in for a more groggy start to the day.
    DJsVk3j.png
    Simming since 2000
  • ChazzzyChazzzy Posts: 4,459 Member
    Did they really say we’re not allowed to compare Sims games against each other? What in the world...
    Origin & Gallery : ChazzzyGOAT | Simblr : ChazzzyGOAT
  • PrincipleOfEntropyPrincipleOfEntropy Posts: 297 Member
    edited September 9
    Remember Sims 1? It was a good game! Here are the comparsions I'm making between Sims 1 and Sims 4

    The-Sims-1-Depth.png

    Here's the builder's panel from TS. The game scored you based on how well you could design houses, a feature that's been missing ever since. As it says here, that's the game's purpose being in the finished product - build a house, the Sims are your feedback on that house. Will's vision completed.

    There's some unrelated stuff to build mode on their too but that's also gone now.
    Chazzzy wrote: »
    Did they really say we’re not allowed to compare Sims games against each other? What in the world...

    It's classed as derailing a thread, unless that thread is explicitly about comparing in its original post.
    DJsVk3j.png
    Simming since 2000
  • Renato10Renato10 Posts: 217 Member
    This is the best thread I ever saw in this forum! Good job!
  • Charlotta11Charlotta11 Posts: 275 Member
    If sims 4 would get these all things you listed from sims 2 it would be totally dream come true. EA pls! These were the things that make sims 2 so superior.
    11.3.2019_1.06.18.png
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 1,780 Member
    Game play wise and Sim Personality, and graphic wise - Sims 4 is my favourite, making it my favourite overall game to play. It's the one I can play for hours upon hours without getting bored, where as Sims 2 I can maybe do an hour or two and then get bored and need a break for a month.

    However, In my opinion, Sims 2 has the best animations. The sims move in a much more lifelike manner and I really, really, miss that.

    Also, I miss free babies.

    If they could bring free babies and shorter teens and better animations to Sims 4 it'd be perfect to me.
  • CynnaCynna Posts: 1,925 Member
    edited September 9
    Remember Sims 1? It was a good game! Here are the comparsions I'm making between Sims 1 and Sims 4:

    Sims 1 public lots were multi-purpse and ALWAYS full of lively people.

    Sims 4 public lots are almost void of life,and you're forced to use a pointless and silly little checklist just to make that lot work.


    In Sims 1,EA/Maxis made each public lot different;you could have a store and a diner on one lot,and on another lot,you could have a bar and a dance club.

    In Sims 4,you see the same boring base game venues being plunked into every single EP and GP that EA churns out. This is my number one gripe with Sims 4: Waaaay too many bars and libraries and other bade game venues in the packs. Did oyu run out of ideas for lot types/venues,EA?


    Sims 1 had really awesome things like Nancy the Paper Girl(if you had a dog,Nancy would scream and run away while your dog barked at her), raccoons and bears that were actaul animals, etc.

    Sims 4 has things like broken trait system, people in raccoon costumes/bear costumes, and overly-freindly Sims.


    Sims 1 had cats,dogs,fish,birds and reptiles as pets.

    Sims 4 just ha cats and dogs,and has a stuff pack with rodents and other things that should of been included in C & D.


    In Sims 1, it took only 7 seconds for Sims to eat a meal.

    In Sims 4,it takes a Sim about 10-20 minutes to eat a meal.


    Sims 1 had beautiful,vibrant neighborhoods with about 9-10 lots in each neighborhood.

    Sims 4 churns out tiny little worlds with 4-5 lots(Magnolia Promenade,Forgotten Hollw,Glimmerbrook,etc).The biggest world in Sims 4 is Windenburg.



    I'm hoping Sims 5 will have lots of Sims 1 elements in it.





    Good comparison.

    Sidebar: I thought that it was only me who noticed the empty venues. The liveliness of public lots was one of the things that TS4 had going for it. These days, I try to take screenshots at public venues but, they are strangely empty in comparison to how they used to be. I have to use mods to spawn more Sims because the game doesn't. I wonder what changed?
    I was woken by a storm this night and it made me remember another issue with TS4: sleep.
    First, in TS3, you could "drag out" the interaction and the sim would stay in bed until 6:00 or until 2hr before his carpool would arrive (whichever is sooner) - something I really miss in TS4. Does TS4 even have an alarm clock?
    Second, in TS3, sims could not just sleep through everything. Unless they had the heavy sleeper trait, a radio, TV, or a crying baby in the same room would wake them. Maybe a storm as well, not sure there. And there was the light sleeper trait as well, I believe, which made pretty much any noise potential wake-up for the sim.
    In Sims 1, it took only 7 seconds for Sims to eat a meal.

    In Sims 4,it takes a Sim about 10-20 minutes to eat a meal.

    Yep, eating takes an absurdly long time in TS4 even without multitasking.

    I really loved the light sleeper/heavy sleeper traits. At first sight, they may seem like throwaway traits, however, they added so much individuality to the game and to the Sims that had them. This is the kind of thing that TS4 is missing. EA spends too much time creating traits that promote the latest features. However, if you've already purchased the game, you don't need it to be promoted, you already own it and have all the time in the world to explore the features without EA's handholding.

    The-Sims-1-Depth.png

    Here's the builder's panel from TS. The game scored you based on how well you could design houses, a feature that's been missing ever since. As it says here, that's the game's purpose being in the finished product - build a house, the Sims are your feedback on that house. Will's vision completed.

    I forgot all about that budget window. That is something that I would love to see again. The level of care and detail was amazing. I would give so much if the independent relationship panels returned to the series.

    Keep these infographics (?) coming, they're great. :)
    I3Ml5Om.jpg
  • StrawberryYogurtStrawberryYogurt Posts: 1,013 Member
    Superbly written. This is why TS2 is still my favorite to date.
    My sim history: The Sims 1- 4 (PC , Console, DS ), My Sims, Castaway, The Sims 2 Stories, Urbz Sims, Bustin Out' etc ♡ TS2 ♡




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