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Please Don't Cave

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Dear Gurus, developers and game designers,

You'll have seen some ugliness here over something as innocuous as traditional headwear. I'll admit, I found that a bit dismaying, myself.

Please do not allow vocal displays of intolerance to dissuade you from the diverse and inclusive vision you have for the game. I'd rather see a hundred packs of content that doesn't especially cater or appeal to me personally, than to see bigotry coddled.

You have all done a superb job so far, navigating difficult terrain, making your best effort, and correcting where actual mistakes have been made. Please, trust your principles are in the right place, and carry on.

Comments

  • happyopihappyopi Posts: 996 Member
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Dear Gurus, developers and game designers,

    You'll have seen some ugliness here over something as innocuous as traditional headwear. I'll admit, I found that a bit dismaying, myself.

    Please do not allow vocal displays of intolerance to dissuade you from the diverse and inclusive vision you have for the game. I'd rather see a hundred packs of content that doesn't especially cater or appeal to me personally, than to see bigotry coddled.

    You have all done a superb job so far, navigating difficult terrain, making your best effort, and correcting where actual mistakes have been made. Please, trust your principles are in the right place, and carry on.

    Well said !
  • meeounmeeoun Posts: 2,168 Member
    I'm probably the biggest complainer of the TS4, but I absolutely LOVE these additions (LGBT+ patch, hijabs) to this iteration. The additions not only redefine player representation (what other game allows you to create a transgender?) but embraces human diversity. Whether it be hair texture, style, clothing, music, food, decor, skin tone, body sizes...
    TYVM Sims team. 💛💜💚🧡💙❤
  • RepoRepo Posts: 284 Member
    @meeoun, I'm glad you are happy with your content and hope they continue to to make content for an ever wider representation of cultures. I don't resent the happiness of others for this kind of content. Just because I am not pleased with how this was done doesn't mean that I'm angry at those who are happy with the new content and got what they wanted. I happy you can play in your own world as you wish.
  • EA_LeelooEA_Leeloo Posts: 586 EA Moderator
    Hey folks, just a heads-up: I removed some of the comments. Please refrain from baiting and making things personal - and keep the forum rules in mind. Thank you! :)

    - Leeloo
  • NushnushganayNushnushganay Posts: 206 Member
    edited September 8
    I tend to agree. What seems neutral to one small group, is an effective invisibility shield against whole other groups who matter just as much and who would like to be able to play Sims like themselves, the same as anyone else. Race is one area in which disinclusion creates invisibility, and cultural representations via clothing is another.
    Post edited by Nushnushganay on
    "Common sense and training prohibit me from divulging information for which both the need and the right to know have not been adequately demonstrated" -Redacted
  • XxAirixXXxAirixX Posts: 2,327 Member
    It is not intolerance for people to not be forced to have any specific items in their game for whatever reason (I am so tired of this) and people have the right to speak up as we paid for the games. They are also ignoring what other players have been asking for. Most just said to at least make it a separate patch which is more than fair and to include others if they are going to do this which is also fair. Technically they went against their own policies and now silencing people when they talked about it.

    In the end of the day, they are a business and they depend on customers. It is not wise to alienate and push away some customers.
  • PlayerSinger2010PlayerSinger2010 Posts: 1,817 Member
    XxAirixX wrote: »
    It is not intolerance for people to not be forced to have any specific items in their game for whatever reason (I am so tired of this) and people have the right to speak up as we paid for the games. They are also ignoring what other players have been asking for. Most just said to at least make it a separate patch which is more than fair and to include others if they are going to do this which is also fair. Technically they went against their own policies and now silencing people when they talked about it.

    In the end of the day, they are a business and they depend on customers. It is not wise to alienate and push away some customers.

    You mean like how they added those stupid Star Wars and Final Fantasy (or whatever game it was) costumes and I have to see them every time my Sims go to geek-con?
  • SindocatSindocat Posts: 3,908 Member
    Technically, Mandalorian armor is modest dress, come to think...

    I wasn't a TS4 player when those were added. Was there a big whoopdedoo ragefest then about how Twi'leks are oppressed, and how Mandalorians are a conquest culture? I might have enjoyed that. Or "Why isn't the senator from MY star system represented by a hairdo?"

    Sorry - the collision of ideas here is way too entertaining. I could go on but won't.

    There is a lot of content I don't like and don't use, that I have no say over being in my game. That's fine, because someone will enjoy it.
  • Noree_DoreeNoree_Doree Posts: 1,345 Member
    ChadSims2 wrote: »
    EA_Leeloo wrote: »
    Hey folks, just a heads-up: I removed some of the comments. Please refrain from baiting and making things personal - and keep the forum rules in mind. Thank you! :)

    - Leeloo
    So its within the forum rules to make an entire thread attacking users who dare disagree? This entire thread is baiting.

    best thing to do is report it. Fair is fair right?
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    "Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits, gerbits, vo gerbits!!!"
  • PrincessSaturnPrincessSaturn Posts: 564 Member
    They don't need anyone to defend them, period.
    ___________________________
    OUTER SENSHI PRIDE
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  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 1,589 Member
    The person just requested that the items be download seperate.Since sims randomized in the game.This is not about diversity.Its about people who don't want religion in their game..I think personally the sims team should give the option to let us decide what sims randomize witg.If we ever get Christian content.I wouldn't want it to randomnize in other people game.Nobody is against anybody having this content.
  • SindocatSindocat Posts: 3,908 Member
    Lots of people have been against people having this content. Just because posts are scrubbed doesn't mean they never were made.
  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 1,589 Member
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Lots of people have been against people having this content. Just because posts are scrubbed doesn't mean they never were made.

    I never saw that.All I saw was people getting on Ea hyprocripsy,want items for other religions,or just does not want it in their personal game.
  • SindocatSindocat Posts: 3,908 Member
    edited September 9
    Well, I also see people flipping out about a scarf, because religion, who have never objected to yoga, or vegetarianism, or any number of things in the game just as strongly associated with religion. Maybe because they don't know those started as religious things, and were secularized after they were appropriated and popularized. Maybe because it's really a particular religion they are objecting to. No one is flipping out about "OMG these lawn chairs! How dare you put that in my game!" They don't care what is added for free... unless it's something they don't like for "reasons".

    My dog in this fight is that I am in fact a minority underrepresented in games, and historically harassed in gaming communities. That is gradually changing, but a huge part of what The Sims has been for me is a game where I don't actually face that. I would in the past have said "and game community", but sadly, since migrating to TS4 from TS3/TSM, I have not found that to actually still be the case. So, while I am not a black gamer, or a female gamer, or a Muslim gamer, where I see attacks directed at any of these, or anyone in a similar position, I empathize.

    I also think it is problematic to segregate content, rather than casually including it for everyone. It is the opposite of inclusive. It hard-codes marginalization which is the problem it is intended to address. This is a subtle point, and it may seem minor, It's difficult to explain. But, observing Maxis over time, and reading industry interviews with the guiding minds of the studio, I know they get it. That's a huge part of what keeps me coming back. It's an outlook I especially value, because it's rare. It's what I made this thread to encourage.

    Is there free content I find intrusive in my own games, that I don't care to see? Yes, there is. I have a personal bugaboo against real-world text rather than Simlish in my game, even in endorsement of causes I support. But I understand partnerships, and branding, and the business aspect involved, and I don't impute sinister motives to Maxis on account of it. I find mods that correct it, and play on. My issue, my problem. Problem solved.

    Of course not everyone is going to agree. But they don't need to drag me to do it, or brigade my thread. I made a general statement, and people took it personally, and then tell me it's not about me? No, it's not. It's about everyone else, making it about them. Do moms not give hugs anymore? What is up with that? Anyhow, time to go have a life, so I'm out for now. Toodles.
  • lasummerblasummerb Posts: 2,695 Member
    edited September 9
    Oh well, all Simmers have had to patch in content that catered to white American and European aesthetic for years with no choice in what's in the game. Why should there be a patch for those that don't want this latest style and culturally influenced clothing? Y'all gonna have to deal with it the same as everyone else unless you don't ever plan on patching again.

    I say EA keep it coming, the more culturally inspired ppl of color content the better. We haven't even reached the brink. I want it all and I want it now! :D
  • lasummerblasummerb Posts: 2,695 Member
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Why are you so hostile?

    Again, why are you?

    I had some feedback to offer. I offered it, thoughtfully.

    I am not "white knighting" - and kindly refrain from pejorative terms. I am taking a strong stance in favor of a design principle I especially wish to see continue.

    I haven't really dug for them, because I am not a creeper, but I certainly have not seen anything posted by you in thanks for or appreciation of more diverse content, regardless of what you're alleging now.

    Your comment was not on topic, and I wondered what axe you had to grind that you felt the need to unload it in my thread. So I asked, that's all.

    @Sindocat

    Stand in your truth! I agree 100. Thanks for posting your thoughts.
  • lasummerblasummerb Posts: 2,695 Member
    edited September 9
    The person just requested that the items be download seperate.Since sims randomized in the game.This is not about diversity.Its about people who don't want religion in their game..I think personally the sims team should give the option to let us decide what sims randomize witg.If we ever get Christian content.I wouldn't want it to randomnize in other people game.Nobody is against anybody having this content.

    And yet not all women who wear hijab aren't Muslim its very much cultural as it is religious

    Typo
    Post edited by lasummerb on
  • To7mTo7m Posts: 5,243 Member
    lasummerb wrote: »
    The person just requested that the items be download seperate.Since sims randomized in the game.This is not about diversity.Its about people who don't want religion in their game..I think personally the sims team should give the option to let us decide what sims randomize witg.If we ever get Christian content.I wouldn't want it to randomnize in other people game.Nobody is against anybody having this content.

    And yet not all women who wear hijab are Muslim its very much cultural as it is religious.

    They don’t where I am from. It is strictly Muslim garb. Along with burkas.

    —T
  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 1,589 Member
    Also to the point vegatarism,and yoga.Has been secularized. Vegatarism is simple not eating meat.They are some religions that forbids eating meat.Like Hindu.But vegatarism does not mean a religious thing.Yoga has been securlise
  • lasummerblasummerb Posts: 2,695 Member
    lasummerb wrote: »
    Oh well, all Simmers have had to patch in content that catered to white American and European aesthetic for years with no choice in what's in the game. Why should there be a patch for those that don't want this latest style and culturally influenced clothing? Y'all gonna have to deal with it the same as everyone else unless you don't ever plan on patching again.

    I say EA keep it coming, the more culturally inspired ppl of color content the better. We haven't even reached the brink. I want it all and I want it now! :D

    Give me breao,this game is American made by americans..This is a religouse item not a culture one.This is like complaining about buying a Japanese game,and it being Japan.

    Nope not always. Born and raised in the US plenty of my friends weren't active Muslims but it was part of their culture. I don't celebrate religious holidays yet we have that in gamem I respect ppl just want representation.
  • lasummerblasummerb Posts: 2,695 Member
    edited September 9
    To7m wrote: »
    lasummerb wrote: »
    The person just requested that the items be download seperate.Since sims randomized in the game.This is not about diversity.Its about people who don't want religion in their game..I think personally the sims team should give the option to let us decide what sims randomize witg.If we ever get Christian content.I wouldn't want it to randomnize in other people game.Nobody is against anybody having this content.

    And yet not all women who wear hijab are Muslim its very much cultural as it is religious.

    They don’t where I am from. It is strictly Muslim garb. Along with burkas.

    —T

    Well I'm in the US and it's not always the case here. There are other religious items that I don't observe in game.
    I think EA including a custom calender and custom holidays was the best part of Seasons.I don't believe in Christmas and all that. So I deleted winterfest and made my own celebration called Blacktivus that all my Sims of different races and cultures observe. I also made a native Sulani holiday to celebrate their culture. EA is just trying to be more inclusive as they should because all sorts of ppl play this game and spend money on it.
  • CynnaCynna Posts: 1,925 Member
    edited September 9
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Lots of people have been against people having this content. Just because posts are scrubbed doesn't mean they never were made.

    I never saw that.All I saw was people getting on Ea hyprocripsy,want items for other religions,or just does not want it in their personal game.

    People have been asking for hijabs, specifically. There's a thread about it that is still in the EA Ideas corner, I believe.

    Personally, I would love to see a pack that is inspired by clothing from the African continent, a sampling of the different cultures and countries there. TS3 did a bit, I'd like to see it in TS4. Some of the headwraps are good and the Caribbean items. I would love to see more.
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  • SimaniteSimanite Posts: 4,833 Member
    edited September 11
    Off-topic comment. Please delete.
    Post edited by Simanite on
  • EA_JozEA_Joz Posts: 909 EA Moderator
    Hello everyone! We've closed this thread while we review it.

    EA_Joz
  • EA_RtasEA_Rtas Posts: 2,331 EA Moderator
    Alright folks I'm re-opening the thread now, I've cleared out a few posts in here and I'd like to re-iterate what Leeloo said, let's keep it respectful please and leave it out with the bait. This thread isn't the place to discuss why you have someone ignored nor is it a place to hop on each other for agreeing or disagreeing with a pack. For the most part everyone is discussing this pretty well and keeping it civil so let's try and continue that, going forward let's keep this on topic and respectful please.
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