Why can't people just be happy or at least ok with the fact that someone somewhere is feeling represented by this content. It doesn't mean they won't include other cultures/religions. Inclusiveness is not pie. Plus, being it religious or not, the fact is a lot of people wear hijabs in many different places, and they wear it in their everyday lives, which makes it cultural, unlike other strictly religious items people have been mentioning. Just chill, if you dont like it, dont use it.
considering that the rules prevent us for even asking for it, I'm very sure that they won't include other religions.
The rules prevent topics like "if you added Muslim, I want the religion X" which is totally understandable. If the approach was "Hey, I'm glad you're worried about inclusion and would be very happy if you made content based on my culture as well", I'm pretty sure the topic wouldn't be closed.
As I said, it's not pie. There's room for everyone. People should just stop being selfish and think "ok they did this, I hope they also do that" instead of "how dare they do this if they didn't do that".
And I highly doubt EA won't try to include other cultures, as they said themselves:
"As it has been commented here already, we've created content inspired by other cultures in the past. We decided to bring Muslim-inspired content to The Sims 4 because we are upholding our values of belonging and inclusivity, and want to provide players with opportunities to accurate represent themselves in game and play with life."
Muslim means to follow Islam same as Christian means to follow Christ. It's a term, not a culture nor a race. Not all MiddleEastern people are Muslim, it's a term. So when they say 'Muslim Inspired' culture content, they should have researched what that means, it's religious in nature, and therefore a nod to religion. It's like saying we created Chistian Inspired content. The hypocrisy here is unbelievable or just they don't even know what Muslim means, it's not a word to describe a people/place but a term meaning a follower of Islam and in such is a religion but by their own words Religion is banned...now how can they possbily not understand what they have said.
Hijabs are indeed religious items, but the fact that people wear them everyday wherever they go, and not just when in a temple or partaking in a specific religious tradition, makes it also cultural. We see these people everywhere, going to work, going to college, going to the supermarket and that makes it something cultural as well, even though it has its roots in a religion. That's kind of relatable to thanksgiving. It's roots are christian, but it became something cultural over time (and it is in the game).
I see lots of people wearing hijabs in the UK, and I actually know some of them. Why shouldn't they be able to make themselves in The Sims? Or why shouldn't I create a friend who wears them?
And if you consider the countries where the MAJORITY of people use them, that's got to be a part of that countries culture. Culture and religion are not that separate from each other.
Also, ffs, does it hurt anyone? As I said, if you don't want this content, don't use it. I'm sure a lot of people are happy with it so that's what matters.
People are really revealing their bigotry based on an optional piece of cloth being added to CAS. Sad. I hoped the community was better than this but it seems it's no different than any other toxic gaming community.
I take issue at being called a bigot for asking for the right to ask for other religious based clothing.
People are really revealing their bigotry based on an optional piece of cloth being added to CAS. Sad. I hoped the community was better than this but it seems it's no different than any other toxic gaming community.
I take issue at being called a bigot for asking for the right to ask for other religious based clothing.
I never called you a bigot. I was reffering to those that have an issue with the clothing, which there are several posts I've read angered over it. If it doesn't apply, let it fly.
I am all for cultural items being added. No crosses or prayer mats please.
For my part I see hijabi as a cultural item and it isn’t so odd. We do not have Thanksgiving where I live. Or a Easter bunny that go egg hunting. We do not have trick-or-treat either so it is just another thing in the game that I do not use personally.
I like it that is becoming a bit more open 🙂 maybe it feels odd if the game was always just like “home” and less different.
My take is that I don't care if it's a religious item or not. I'm just starting to think that EA are intentionally looking for the most hideous looking items to put in our games on purpose and I bet it will be enabled for randoms just to make it even more annoying. I miss the Sims 2 days where the game was just a game and packs/updates were just packs and updates without all the political statements.
Hideous????? Are you kidding me? hijabs have beautiful patterns on them!
It's a piece of clothing that almost hides the person underneath it. It's not to my taste at all. I'd rather see the person underneath not just a huge piece of cloth. I don't care what patterns it has. I don't mind it being added to the game but it will be disabled it my game if it appears on random townies and it won't be used on any of my sims.
People are really revealing their bigotry based on an optional piece of cloth being added to CAS. Sad. I hoped the community was better than this but it seems it's no different than any other toxic gaming community.
I hoped Maxis was better than this and if you are going to promote one religion you promote them all, but I was wrong.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Hopefully the items will not be enabled for random as far as I have noticed the pride items are not. I got nothing against muslims, gay people etc. But when you add those items to a game that has a clothing generator that makes people who are supposed to cosplay during nerdcon wearing purple glasses with a green top and no pants...consider me worried.
This is the same game where the mechanic in taking care of the environment consists of you fighting sims with a ! over their head and who are laughing maniacally because they are "anti-enviromentalists"
Yep, most likely. Until such a time people evolve to the point they’re able to discuss things reasonably.
It’s sad.
Instead of, “Okay, cool. That’s not my cup of tea but I’m happy for the people who now feel more included. Could we maybe add (items) so I have representation?”
We instead get rabid xenophobic and thinly disguised hate with demands for X,Y, and Z (because self-righteous entitlement.)
I don't want that in my game. I don't want symbols of patriarchy, opression and gender hatred in my game. Maxis shouldn't have gone that road.
They could have included other "cultural" things but the hijab is way too connoted.
And for a game who pretends to be LGBT friendly, this is a wrong move. You can't be LGBT friendly and defend something as archaic as a hijab. It just doesn't make any sense! I'm actually really upset they went that way. I'm not even excited for RoM anymore.
A thought to every woman who got killed, 🐸🐸🐸🐸 and jailed everywhere in the world because they removed their hijab. A thought to every little girl forced to cover their head because females are impure and should always be modest (but boys and men? Perfectly fine.) A thought to gay people who are being hung right now because their love is forbidden. A thought to everyone here who thinks the hijab is cute and innocent and harmless.
By including the hijab, EA condones all these behaviors.
As for the Muslim women who choose to wear their hijabs, yes they are numerous in the Western World. And indoctrinated by an obsolete religion. Against gender equality. Against gay marriage. Against everything that EA has supposedly stood for in the past. Just like fundamentalist Christians and Orthodox Jews. Because religions are dangerous, hateful and kill thousands of people every year.
Oh dear god, stop. Are you yourself Muslim? Have you discussed Hijabs with any actual Muslims?
Hijabs are not "100% religious". We have people on these very forums who are trying to educate others that there are Muslims who do not live in oppressive regions who wear them by choice, and for other purposes, yet people keep trying to dictate to them what their own culture represents and what it doesn't. That is ultimately ignorant. The hijab is a piece of clothing. It is one way to express the tenets of that Faith, it is not, by itself, a religious symbol. Yes, it is commonly associated with the Muslim religion because of its prominent use in heavy Muslim areas. But it is not exclusively religious.
So many people are hyperfocusing on the oppressive religious aspects of half-truths that they are willingly blinding themselves into ignorance just to suit a Sims 4 narrative.
My god, I just can't, lol.
This needed to be said. I grew up in a very open Islamic family from south asia. I practice how I please. There is no oppression going on. The Hijab does not represent our religious clothing (in my family) because my parents raised me to believe that faith comes from the heart and it has nothing to do with what you are wearing as long as it's modest. And being from south Asia my family all wear brightly colored flashy traditional clothing you would see in Bollywood movies. You would not even know they practice islam. I try not to get into religious debates because they never end well but these threads are making me cringe.
People are really revealing their bigotry based on an optional piece of cloth being added to CAS. Sad. I hoped the community was better than this but it seems it's no different than any other toxic gaming community.
I'm so tired of trying to teach people who don't wanna listen. What's the point really? 😂
And maybe non Muslim women don't wanna wear hijabs or head scarves thatare close to looking like that cuz they probably think they're gonna be attacked for it?Maybe people should think about that too. But they all aren't complaining about there are these sick people who attack innocent people? Such a shame.
Society and media have really messed with people's minds. It's sad for me to wake up today and find out that a chunk of the sim community is like this in 2019 still. 😔 Ridiculous.
Or maybe we're from a very diverse geographical background. I live in UK. Those who wear burkas or hijabs do so because religion is a strong part of their identity. However we also have a very varied Jewish community here too. You can see religion in the way that people dress, walk and present themselves. And being in a multicultural society, we don't judge each other based on that. But all religion should be treated the same. In reality, you wouldn't make a law that bans all religious items, except for hijab, because it's "cultural". Many communities would lose their minds if you tried doing that. However when it is The Sims, suddenly it's bigoted to ask for other religions to be treated the same?
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
Also, I'm not arguing with you about why they don't add other religion to the game as well. I would love there to be diversity (or none of it at all cuz I'm tired of butt hurt people whining that everything is unfair).
But my main argument with you is that the head scarf is not a religious item. That's it.
But we know how Maxis intended it don't we? To represent the Muslim faith, and we do know some countries who are fundamenalist require the woman to wear it, don't they? It's still very much a practice and requirement as it ever was in some places.
Why don't you ask Maxis that yourself and not just jump into conclusions, huh?
I don't have to ask Maxis, they just made a big speech not long ago of how they are building more than a game, and preached on their trip to be inclusive in the next several years to build an impression. To me without the practice of religion and just dress up, it's as much an insult to those who wanted a gender patch so they could make transgenders (male/female frame etc.) and honestly I'm waiting to see if they add a cross or a church in a patch and not just on the gallery, or robes for a priest or rosary or something. I think I might be waiting a very long time since any discussion of Christianity has always earned a warning and a ban. But not other religions.
You’re talking as if they just added mosques, Muslim preacher clothing, or a prayer mat.
I don't want to get in any arguments with anyone. I like all of you, I never ask anyone their gender, age, religion, sexual preference etc. None of that matters to me, I'm always just here to discuss Sims. I'm under the impression Maxis is on some kind of world tour to get more money, and sure why not, but also think their marketing manipulates players and the word care isn't really in the vocabulary nor diversity, but a hook for more money. (Under the guise of diversity and caring and tolerance, uh, no, I don't see it.) Call me jaded.
Yes, I do think you're a bit jaded, to be honest, lol. But in some aspects, I can understand what you're saying and in some small ways, agree. Yes, the company is out for marketing and money. That's a given. Capitalism. But I also don't think that adding diversity and other cultures into the Sims is unreasonable, nor is it unexpected. As the game has become more international, it only makes sense to include those factions of players. And as the game has embraced more international players, it became more glaringly obvious just how little actual representation there was. People of the core player base who played older iterations aren't as likely to notice this, because we got so used to the game being focused on American middle class society, possibly because many of us are naturally part of it ourselves. (I originally came from lower/poor class, but in a rich country like the U.S., that's still the equivalent of some regions' middle class.) But an American's "normal" in game can be very different from the player of another country's "normal", so for people in other regions, adding in some CAS and Build/Buy that feels more natural to them is being inclusive to their society and adding to their sandbox simulation. Not everyone needs to use it. That's the power of choice. And players are always demanding choices, aren't they? Or are people only receptive to the choices that they relate to?
But I think that's where part of the problem of discontent lies. It's not all in EA/Maxis and their agendas or evolution. Some of it is in the basic ignorance on the players' side, those who kind of live in their own bubble and don't like change and don't realize there's an entire eclectic world out there to live in harmony with through the same game. And I'm truly, sincerely not trying to say this to be insulting to anyone or bait. Honestly. I just think that some people are very set in their ways, very stubborn in their ideals, very rigid in their expectations, and therefore, have a more difficult time accepting new concepts and changes. Especially when those changes affect something they have a personal attachment to. It's unfortunate because those people do end up feeling left behind, and it's a shame.
**Clarifying that this post is strictly in reference to cultural additions and diversilty. Game mechanics and basic content preferences are off-topic and not addressed here.
regardless of how you feel about the HIJAB I hope they don't allow npc to wear it because they will wear it with everything this does not make me feel like I'm culturally diverse it just looks bad they should ether fix the npc way of dressing or only make it where you as the player can dress sims in the HIJAB
because then it could be like this Brad Paisley - American Saturday Night https://youtu.be/tvdoKvHYxcA
As for the Muslim women who choose to wear their hijabs, yes they are numerous in the Western World. And indoctrinated by an obsolete religion.
How about we let the women and girls who choose to wear hijab decide for themselves why they choose to wear it, instead of deciding for them or automatically assuming.
Especially considering the perverted and corrupted version of the Muslim religion that’s overwhelming presented in sensationalized media these days.
Let us not forget that the things reported by the news are largely the result of corrupt leadership who have taken and twisted a religion to their own purpose. Much the same way Christianity was used in the dark ages.
We don’t get to decide what that simple head cover means. It doesn’t belong to us.
I don't want that in my game. I don't want symbols of patriarchy, opression and gender hatred in my game. Maxis shouldn't have gone that road.
They could have included other "cultural" things but the hijab is way too connoted.
And for a game who pretends to be LGBT friendly, this is a wrong move. You can't be LGBT friendly and defend something as archaic as a hijab. It just doesn't make any sense! I'm actually really upset they went that way. I'm not even excited for RoM anymore.
A thought to every woman who got killed, plum and jailed everywhere in the world because they removed their hijab. A thought to every little girl forced to cover their head because females are impure and should always be modest (but boys and men? Perfectly fine.) A thought to gay people who are being hung right now because their love is forbidden. A thought to everyone here who thinks the hijab is cute and innocent and harmless.
By including the hijab, EA condones all these behaviors.
As for the Muslim women who choose to wear their hijabs, yes they are numerous in the Western World. And indoctrinated by an obsolete religion. Against gender equality. Against gay marriage. Against everything that EA has supposedly stood for in the past. Just like fundamentalist Christians and Orthodox Jews. Because religions are dangerous, hateful and kill thousands of people every year.
I don't understand what EA was thinking.
I agree with the bit in bold. But some women choose to wear their hijabs. I worked with a lady who chose to wear hers, her teenage daughter did not, it wasn’t a problem. Who was I to tell her what she voluntarily chose to wear was “wrong”? It was her decision and she respected her daughter who chose not to wear one. For women of faith who do want to wear the hijab and want to accurately portray themselves then I think this is a good thing.
There are plenty of religions that don’t agree with gay marriage. Islam is not the only one, in parts of the country I live gay marriage isn’t legal. I live in a Christian country.
But I’m not going into that’s as that’s another topic. My point is that while I agree partly with what you are saying, I don’t think it’s fair to banish representation for the every day person based upon extreme behaviours.
How about we let the women and girls who choose to wear hijab decide for themselves why they choose to wear it, instead of deciding for them or automatically assuming.
I'm going to lock this discussion here, but I want to clarify something that doesn't seem to be clear for everyone:
We are here to discuss the game so asking for content to be included in the game is perfectly fine to do in the forums (the exceptions being adult themed topics or illegal activities, see forum rules for more on that). However, requests for new content that are accompanied with flaming, hate and/or discrimination against others have no place on this forum and will not be tolerated. Neither will discussions within those threads that derail to become this.
In general, when it comes to requests of content related to a controversial topic, it's tough for threads of this nature to remain focused on the in-game content or held in a polite and friendly way (forum rules). This is often the reason why discussions on these topics become no longer appropriate. Whether in-game content request threads of this nature remain open will ultimately come down to how the community are able to conduct these conversations.
Comments
Hijabs are indeed religious items, but the fact that people wear them everyday wherever they go, and not just when in a temple or partaking in a specific religious tradition, makes it also cultural. We see these people everywhere, going to work, going to college, going to the supermarket and that makes it something cultural as well, even though it has its roots in a religion. That's kind of relatable to thanksgiving. It's roots are christian, but it became something cultural over time (and it is in the game).
I see lots of people wearing hijabs in the UK, and I actually know some of them. Why shouldn't they be able to make themselves in The Sims? Or why shouldn't I create a friend who wears them?
And if you consider the countries where the MAJORITY of people use them, that's got to be a part of that countries culture. Culture and religion are not that separate from each other.
Also, ffs, does it hurt anyone? As I said, if you don't want this content, don't use it. I'm sure a lot of people are happy with it so that's what matters.
I take issue at being called a bigot for asking for the right to ask for other religious based clothing.
I never called you a bigot. I was reffering to those that have an issue with the clothing, which there are several posts I've read angered over it. If it doesn't apply, let it fly.
For my part I see hijabi as a cultural item and it isn’t so odd. We do not have Thanksgiving where I live. Or a Easter bunny that go egg hunting. We do not have trick-or-treat either so it is just another thing in the game that I do not use personally.
I like it that is becoming a bit more open 🙂 maybe it feels odd if the game was always just like “home” and less different.
It's a piece of clothing that almost hides the person underneath it. It's not to my taste at all. I'd rather see the person underneath not just a huge piece of cloth. I don't care what patterns it has. I don't mind it being added to the game but it will be disabled it my game if it appears on random townies and it won't be used on any of my sims.
I hoped Maxis was better than this and if you are going to promote one religion you promote them all, but I was wrong.
A brick to the head has more subtlety.
Says catitude5, the person who knows what belongs in the game better than EA.
Yep, most likely. Until such a time people evolve to the point they’re able to discuss things reasonably.
It’s sad.
Instead of, “Okay, cool. That’s not my cup of tea but I’m happy for the people who now feel more included. Could we maybe add (items) so I have representation?”
We instead get rabid xenophobic and thinly disguised hate with demands for X,Y, and Z (because self-righteous entitlement.)
They could have included other "cultural" things but the hijab is way too connoted.
And for a game who pretends to be LGBT friendly, this is a wrong move. You can't be LGBT friendly and defend something as archaic as a hijab. It just doesn't make any sense! I'm actually really upset they went that way. I'm not even excited for RoM anymore.
A thought to every woman who got killed, 🐸🐸🐸🐸 and jailed everywhere in the world because they removed their hijab. A thought to every little girl forced to cover their head because females are impure and should always be modest (but boys and men? Perfectly fine.) A thought to gay people who are being hung right now because their love is forbidden. A thought to everyone here who thinks the hijab is cute and innocent and harmless.
By including the hijab, EA condones all these behaviors.
As for the Muslim women who choose to wear their hijabs, yes they are numerous in the Western World. And indoctrinated by an obsolete religion. Against gender equality. Against gay marriage. Against everything that EA has supposedly stood for in the past. Just like fundamentalist Christians and Orthodox Jews. Because religions are dangerous, hateful and kill thousands of people every year.
I don't understand what EA was thinking.
This needed to be said. I grew up in a very open Islamic family from south asia. I practice how I please. There is no oppression going on. The Hijab does not represent our religious clothing (in my family) because my parents raised me to believe that faith comes from the heart and it has nothing to do with what you are wearing as long as it's modest. And being from south Asia my family all wear brightly colored flashy traditional clothing you would see in Bollywood movies. You would not even know they practice islam. I try not to get into religious debates because they never end well but these threads are making me cringe.
Exactly what I was thinking.
regardless of how you feel about the HIJAB I hope they don't allow npc to wear it because they will wear it with everything this does not make me feel like I'm culturally diverse it just looks bad they should ether fix the npc way of dressing or only make it where you as the player can dress sims in the HIJAB
because then it could be like this Brad Paisley - American Saturday Night
How about we let the women and girls who choose to wear hijab decide for themselves why they choose to wear it, instead of deciding for them or automatically assuming.
Especially considering the perverted and corrupted version of the Muslim religion that’s overwhelming presented in sensationalized media these days.
Let us not forget that the things reported by the news are largely the result of corrupt leadership who have taken and twisted a religion to their own purpose. Much the same way Christianity was used in the dark ages.
We don’t get to decide what that simple head cover means. It doesn’t belong to us.
I agree with the bit in bold. But some women choose to wear their hijabs. I worked with a lady who chose to wear hers, her teenage daughter did not, it wasn’t a problem. Who was I to tell her what she voluntarily chose to wear was “wrong”? It was her decision and she respected her daughter who chose not to wear one. For women of faith who do want to wear the hijab and want to accurately portray themselves then I think this is a good thing.
There are plenty of religions that don’t agree with gay marriage. Islam is not the only one, in parts of the country I live gay marriage isn’t legal. I live in a Christian country.
But I’m not going into that’s as that’s another topic. My point is that while I agree partly with what you are saying, I don’t think it’s fair to banish representation for the every day person based upon extreme behaviours.
This ^^^^
We are here to discuss the game so asking for content to be included in the game is perfectly fine to do in the forums (the exceptions being adult themed topics or illegal activities, see forum rules for more on that). However, requests for new content that are accompanied with flaming, hate and/or discrimination against others have no place on this forum and will not be tolerated. Neither will discussions within those threads that derail to become this.
In general, when it comes to requests of content related to a controversial topic, it's tough for threads of this nature to remain focused on the in-game content or held in a polite and friendly way (forum rules). This is often the reason why discussions on these topics become no longer appropriate. Whether in-game content request threads of this nature remain open will ultimately come down to how the community are able to conduct these conversations.