I'm so tired of trying to teach people who don't wanna listen. What's the point really? 😂
And maybe non Muslim women don't wanna wear hijabs or head scarves thatare close to looking like that cuz they probably think they're gonna be attacked for it?Maybe people should think about that too. But they all aren't complaining about there are these sick people who attack innocent people? Such a shame.
Society and media have really messed with people's minds. It's sad for me to wake up today and find out that a chunk of the sim community is like this in 2019 still. 😔 Ridiculous.
Or maybe we're from a very diverse geographical background. I live in UK. Those who wear burkas or hijabs do so because religion is a strong part of their identity. However we also have a very varied Jewish community here too. You can see religion in the way that people dress, walk and present themselves. And being in a multicultural society, we don't judge each other based on that. But all religion should be treated the same. In reality, you wouldn't make a law that bans all religious items, except for hijab, because it's "cultural". Many communities would lose their minds if you tried doing that. However when it is The Sims, suddenly it's bigoted to ask for other religions to be treated the same?
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
Also, I'm not arguing with you about why they don't add other religion to the game as well. I would love there to be diversity (or none of it at all cuz I'm tired of butt hurt people whining that everything is unfair).
But my main argument with you is that the head scarf is not a religious item. That's it.
It was Queen Victoria, at her wedding, who started the fashion for white wedding dresses. Before that wedding women just wore their best frocks of any colour. True.
Sure, this is true. But it cannot be denied that it has been given a religious view or symbolism of a brides purity and chasteness.
And yes, if you take an unbiased anthropological look at these customs that very greatly among different cultures they are very different. I actually enjoyed this class in college. I always found it intriguing to learn how different cultures attribute different meaning to practices.
I bet you that was something that men (probably clerics) made use of. I doubt if many woment of the time liked the words "chaste" and "pure" applied to them.
Lol I’m pretty sure they didn’t! I know I wouldn’t have. Yet despite this it was used as a form of subjugation and control.
Probably why I enjoyed learning about the Mosuo society. After being taught patriarchy their culture was fascinating to me.
Christmas is a great example. While rooted in religion many today observe and celebrate the holiday despite not being Christians at all. They place a different meaning to it.
As an atheist I can choose to exchange gifts on Christmas, but I am fully aware that it is a Christian holiday. If there was no religious connotation to it, we would literally be calling it "Christmas" in The Sims as well and not "Winterfest".
The wearing of a veil and white dress by a bride is rooted in religion and paganism, a symbol or purity etc. Yet modern women wear it not because they believe in misogyny or the meaning given to it at one time. They wear them because they find them beautiful.
White dress during a wedding has no religious context.
There you go, you just proved yourself wrong. You are practicing a holiday and doing what people do during it despite not being religious and having the understanding that it did start as a religious practice. I suppose some, then, could wear hijab despite knowing it has religious meaning but choose it because they may like the look or as part of the culture they come from.
I don’t ever visit Wikipedia. It really isn’t the most reliable source of information. Yet i read it to understand your point. In that article it states “Although women were required to wear veils in many churches through at least the 19th century, the resurgence of the wedding veil as a symbol of the bride, and its use even when not required by the bride's religion, coincided with societal emphasis on women being modest and well-behaved.[4]
Etiquette books then began to turn the practice into a tradition and the white gown soon became a popular symbol of status that also carried "a connotation of innocence and virginal purity."[2] The story put out about the wedding veil was that decorous brides were naturally too timid to show their faces in public until they were married.”
So yes, it does indeed have religious meaning that then turned into custom.
Have a great day.. I have work to do.
Thank you! Some people around here don't even see their own contradictions.
There you go, you just proved yourself wrong. You are practicing a holiday and doing what people do during it despite not being religious and having the understanding that it did start as a religious practice. I suppose some, then, could wear hijab despite knowing it has religious meaning but choose it because they may like the look or as part of the culture they come from.
It didn't start as a religious practice, it still IS a religious practice. That's the difference. I know that I'm observing a religious tradition. You insist that religious clothing is cultural.
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
And there are places where you will receive a public flocking for not wearing it, or go to jail if your sleeves are too short. How is this a conversational point?
@darrenfroggy I didn't know tichels were a religious item and have used them for many Sims in ignorance. I hadn't even heard of the word. I've been educated! I'd love some saris which come in so many beautiful colours, turbans (our Sikh police are allowed to wear them in the UK) and bonnets for children and adults.
Yup, the name itself comes from Yiddish and while they're no longer exclusively used by Orthodox Jewish women (but then, neither are other headcoverings ), it's very much their headwear. They're quite beautiful and varied as they can be plain cloth but also intricate multi-fabric ones.
I'd really love to see more items from various cultures around the world that is often underrepresented. Traditional dresses too, please (there are so so many of them in Europe) like flamenco dresses or lederhosen or shepherd clothing. And of course, other headscarves from various other regions.
(now, I can dream, but one day I hope they'll include scarves as an option for neckwear too )
I'm so tired of trying to teach people who don't wanna listen. What's the point really? 😂
And maybe non Muslim women don't wanna wear hijabs or head scarves thatare close to looking like that cuz they probably think they're gonna be attacked for it?Maybe people should think about that too. But they all aren't complaining about there are these sick people who attack innocent people? Such a shame.
Society and media have really messed with people's minds. It's sad for me to wake up today and find out that a chunk of the sim community is like this in 2019 still. 😔 Ridiculous.
Or maybe we're from a very diverse geographical background. I live in UK. Those who wear burkas or hijabs do so because religion is a strong part of their identity. However we also have a very varied Jewish community here too. You can see religion in the way that people dress, walk and present themselves. And being in a multicultural society, we don't judge each other based on that. But all religion should be treated the same. In reality, you wouldn't make a law that bans all religious items, except for hijab, because it's "cultural". Many communities would lose their minds if you tried doing that. However when it is The Sims, suddenly it's bigoted to ask for other religions to be treated the same?
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
Also, I'm not arguing with you about why they don't add other religion to the game as well. I would love there to be diversity (or none of it at all cuz I'm tired of butt hurt people whining that everything is unfair).
But my main argument with you is that the head scarf is not a religious item. That's it.
But we know how Maxis intended it don't we? To represent the Muslim faith, and we do know some countries who are fundamenalist require the woman to wear it, don't they? It's still very much a practice and requirement as it ever was in some places.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
So rather than accept the testimony of actual Muslim women, you're going to continue to push your own interpretation. That's a new low. You can keep insisting the hijab is exclusively religious, but it won't make it true, lol. Many women wear them for reasons that are not religious. Why do you keep ignoring this? Just because something can be worn religiously, or is worn religiously in some areas, does not suddenly make that garment an exclusively religious piece.
If you need more proof of that, here are some articles that back this up.
So, once again; the hijab is not, of itself, a religious object. It just isn't. It is merely used in respect to religious tenets. It is not anywhere the same as putting a crucifix in the game.
Who are the non muslim women that wear hijabs and burkas, in countries where that's not required by law? If its an iitem used specifically by only the members of your religion, I would consider that a religious item. Heck, even if an item is used by a wide range of people, but it has religious symbolism, that's also a religious item.
If you really need an ample proof of someone that are not muslim but wear hijab
She is catholic and in Indonesia, where women are not required to wear hijab(by indonesia's law) but are free to do so by their own choice.
This is the opposite version of what might happen to those who wear the hijab in Western countries.
"Although Indonesia’s constitution promotes religious freedom, Islamic extremist groups are becoming more influential in pushing for an Islamic nation. Some regions of Indonesia already operate under Islamic law (Sharia), which poses a threat to Christians and other religious minorities."
There you go, you just proved yourself wrong. You are practicing a holiday and doing what people do during it despite not being religious and having the understanding that it did start as a religious practice. I suppose some, then, could wear hijab despite knowing it has religious meaning but choose it because they may like the look or as part of the culture they come from.
It didn't start as a religious practice, it still IS a religious practice. That's the difference. I know that I'm observing a religious tradition. You insist that religious clothing is cultural.
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
And there are places where you will receive a public flocking for not wearing it, or go to jail if your sleeves are too short. How is this a conversational point?
Maybe because religion is very intertwined with culture? 🤦🏽♀️
What difference are you talking about? I don’t get it. It’s like you are using circular reasoning, it is because I believe it is, I believe it is because it is!
Of course to many it IS still a religious custom. Yet there are many others that observe, practice, take part in it despite not giving the holiday any religious connotation. You, are an example of that. So if you can do it, why can others? Or is it that it’s only palatable to you if it applies to what you are comfortable with?
There you go, you just proved yourself wrong. You are practicing a holiday and doing what people do during it despite not being religious and having the understanding that it did start as a religious practice. I suppose some, then, could wear hijab despite knowing it has religious meaning but choose it because they may like the look or as part of the culture they come from.
It didn't start as a religious practice, it still IS a religious practice. That's the difference. I know that I'm observing a religious tradition. You insist that religious clothing is cultural.
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
And there are places where you will receive a public flocking for not wearing it, or go to jail if your sleeves are too short. How is this a conversational point?
Yes, there are. But you said, the community will go crazy if all religion was banned except for hijabs. But you didn't look at it the other way, that there are some places where they ban certain religious practices. That's what I call irony.
I'm so tired of trying to teach people who don't wanna listen. What's the point really? 😂
And maybe non Muslim women don't wanna wear hijabs or head scarves thatare close to looking like that cuz they probably think they're gonna be attacked for it?Maybe people should think about that too. But they all aren't complaining about there are these sick people who attack innocent people? Such a shame.
Society and media have really messed with people's minds. It's sad for me to wake up today and find out that a chunk of the sim community is like this in 2019 still. 😔 Ridiculous.
Or maybe we're from a very diverse geographical background. I live in UK. Those who wear burkas or hijabs do so because religion is a strong part of their identity. However we also have a very varied Jewish community here too. You can see religion in the way that people dress, walk and present themselves. And being in a multicultural society, we don't judge each other based on that. But all religion should be treated the same. In reality, you wouldn't make a law that bans all religious items, except for hijab, because it's "cultural". Many communities would lose their minds if you tried doing that. However when it is The Sims, suddenly it's bigoted to ask for other religions to be treated the same?
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
Also, I'm not arguing with you about why they don't add other religion to the game as well. I would love there to be diversity (or none of it at all cuz I'm tired of butt hurt people whining that everything is unfair).
But my main argument with you is that the head scarf is not a religious item. That's it.
But we know how Maxis intended it don't we? To represent the Muslim faith, and we do know some countries who are fundamenalist require the woman to wear it, don't they? It's still very much a practice and requirement as it ever was in some places.
Why don't you ask Maxis that yourself and not just jump into conclusions, huh?
Yes, there are. But you said, the community will go crazy if all religion was banned except for hijabs. But you didn't look at it the other way, that there are some places where they ban certain religious practices. That's what I call irony.
Because we are talking sims and not real world laws. When I gave that example, it's because that is how it is in sims. Now we have the clothing of one religion, meaning that all other religious clothing is effectively banned as your sims have no way of buying them.
Yes, there are. But you said, the community will go crazy if all religion was banned except for hijabs. But you didn't look at it the other way, that there are some places where they ban certain religious practices. That's what I call irony.
Because we are talking sims and not real world laws. When I gave that example, it's because that is how it is in sims. Now we have the clothing of one religion, meaning that all other religious clothing is effectively banned as your sims have no way of buying them.
LOL, are you okay? I think you need to sit down. 😂
There you go, you just proved yourself wrong. You are practicing a holiday and doing what people do during it despite not being religious and having the understanding that it did start as a religious practice. I suppose some, then, could wear hijab despite knowing it has religious meaning but choose it because they may like the look or as part of the culture they come from.
It didn't start as a religious practice, it still IS a religious practice. That's the difference. I know that I'm observing a religious tradition. You insist that religious clothing is cultural.
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
And there are places where you will receive a public flocking for not wearing it, or go to jail if your sleeves are too short. How is this a conversational point?
Correction: you observe something that could be religious practice, depending on the household celebrating it, but Christmas is also commonly not recognized as such, since it's much more secular in modern days. I know many atheists who celebrate Christmas with absolutely no religious connotations. They do it in their own way. I also know Christians who take the time to honor their religion on that day as well. In truth, the holiday was initially stolen by the Christians from the Pagans, and the interpretation and celebration has transformed over the years. Interpretation is key to understanding here. And to go back to the hijab, it's even religiously and philosophically debated as to whether it's a proper interpretation from the Quran that all women should wear it, or if it was exclusively for the prophet's wives. Not so different than the many, many debates regarding Bible passages. But anyway, like you said yourself, Christians sometimes have their "Sunday best", which are used in respect to their religion, but that doesn't suddenly make those garments sacred holy items, does it? The same thing can be worn as a formality elsewhere.
To some women, a hijab can be regarded similarly to a Sari or a Kimono, to be worn traditionally and/or culturally or just out of respect for one's self or family. As the world continues to change and progress, so does the meaning of garments like hijabs. Again, there is no single interpretation. Therefore, it is not strictly a religious object.
I'm so tired of trying to teach people who don't wanna listen. What's the point really? 😂
And maybe non Muslim women don't wanna wear hijabs or head scarves thatare close to looking like that cuz they probably think they're gonna be attacked for it?Maybe people should think about that too. But they all aren't complaining about there are these sick people who attack innocent people? Such a shame.
Society and media have really messed with people's minds. It's sad for me to wake up today and find out that a chunk of the sim community is like this in 2019 still. 😔 Ridiculous.
Or maybe we're from a very diverse geographical background. I live in UK. Those who wear burkas or hijabs do so because religion is a strong part of their identity. However we also have a very varied Jewish community here too. You can see religion in the way that people dress, walk and present themselves. And being in a multicultural society, we don't judge each other based on that. But all religion should be treated the same. In reality, you wouldn't make a law that bans all religious items, except for hijab, because it's "cultural". Many communities would lose their minds if you tried doing that. However when it is The Sims, suddenly it's bigoted to ask for other religions to be treated the same?
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
Also, I'm not arguing with you about why they don't add other religion to the game as well. I would love there to be diversity (or none of it at all cuz I'm tired of butt hurt people whining that everything is unfair).
But my main argument with you is that the head scarf is not a religious item. That's it.
But we know how Maxis intended it don't we? To represent the Muslim faith, and we do know some countries who are fundamenalist require the woman to wear it, don't they? It's still very much a practice and requirement as it ever was in some places.
Why don't you ask Maxis that yourself and not just jump into conclusions, huh?
I don't have to ask Maxis, they just made a big speech not long ago of how they are building more than a game, and preached on their trip to be inclusive in the next several years to build an impression. To me without the practice of religion and just dress up, it's as much an insult to those who wanted a gender patch so they could make transgenders (male/female frame etc.) and honestly I'm waiting to see if they add a cross or a church in a patch and not just on the gallery, or robes for a priest or rosary or something. I think I might be waiting a very long time since any discussion of Christianity has always earned a warning and a ban. But not other religions.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I'm so tired of trying to teach people who don't wanna listen. What's the point really? 😂
And maybe non Muslim women don't wanna wear hijabs or head scarves thatare close to looking like that cuz they probably think they're gonna be attacked for it?Maybe people should think about that too. But they all aren't complaining about there are these sick people who attack innocent people? Such a shame.
Society and media have really messed with people's minds. It's sad for me to wake up today and find out that a chunk of the sim community is like this in 2019 still. 😔 Ridiculous.
Or maybe we're from a very diverse geographical background. I live in UK. Those who wear burkas or hijabs do so because religion is a strong part of their identity. However we also have a very varied Jewish community here too. You can see religion in the way that people dress, walk and present themselves. And being in a multicultural society, we don't judge each other based on that. But all religion should be treated the same. In reality, you wouldn't make a law that bans all religious items, except for hijab, because it's "cultural". Many communities would lose their minds if you tried doing that. However when it is The Sims, suddenly it's bigoted to ask for other religions to be treated the same?
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
Also, I'm not arguing with you about why they don't add other religion to the game as well. I would love there to be diversity (or none of it at all cuz I'm tired of butt hurt people whining that everything is unfair).
But my main argument with you is that the head scarf is not a religious item. That's it.
But we know how Maxis intended it don't we? To represent the Muslim faith, and we do know some countries who are fundamenalist require the woman to wear it, don't they? It's still very much a practice and requirement as it ever was in some places.
Why don't you ask Maxis that yourself and not just jump into conclusions, huh?
I don't have to ask Maxis, they just made a big speech not long ago of how they are building more than a game, and preached on their trip to be inclusive in the next several years to build an impression. To me without the practice of religion and just dress up, it's as much an insult to those who wanted a gender patch so they could make transgenders (male/female frame etc.) and honestly I'm waiting to see if they add a cross or a church in a patch and not just on the gallery, or robes for a priest or rosary or something. I think I might be waiting a very long time since any discussion of Christianity has always earned a warning and a ban. But not other religions.
You’re talking as if they just added mosques, Muslim preacher clothing, or a prayer mat.
I'm so tired of trying to teach people who don't wanna listen. What's the point really? 😂
And maybe non Muslim women don't wanna wear hijabs or head scarves thatare close to looking like that cuz they probably think they're gonna be attacked for it?Maybe people should think about that too. But they all aren't complaining about there are these sick people who attack innocent people? Such a shame.
Society and media have really messed with people's minds. It's sad for me to wake up today and find out that a chunk of the sim community is like this in 2019 still. 😔 Ridiculous.
Or maybe we're from a very diverse geographical background. I live in UK. Those who wear burkas or hijabs do so because religion is a strong part of their identity. However we also have a very varied Jewish community here too. You can see religion in the way that people dress, walk and present themselves. And being in a multicultural society, we don't judge each other based on that. But all religion should be treated the same. In reality, you wouldn't make a law that bans all religious items, except for hijab, because it's "cultural". Many communities would lose their minds if you tried doing that. However when it is The Sims, suddenly it's bigoted to ask for other religions to be treated the same?
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
Also, I'm not arguing with you about why they don't add other religion to the game as well. I would love there to be diversity (or none of it at all cuz I'm tired of butt hurt people whining that everything is unfair).
But my main argument with you is that the head scarf is not a religious item. That's it.
But we know how Maxis intended it don't we? To represent the Muslim faith, and we do know some countries who are fundamenalist require the woman to wear it, don't they? It's still very much a practice and requirement as it ever was in some places.
Why don't you ask Maxis that yourself and not just jump into conclusions, huh?
I don't have to ask Maxis, they just made a big speech not long ago of how they are building more than a game, and preached on their trip to be inclusive in the next several years to build an impression. To me without the practice of religion and just dress up, it's as much an insult to those who wanted a gender patch so they could make transgenders (male/female frame etc.) and honestly I'm waiting to see if they add a cross or a church in a patch and not just on the gallery, or robes for a priest or rosary or something. I think I might be waiting a very long time since any discussion of Christianity has always earned a warning and a ban. But not other religions.
You’re talking as if they just added mosques, Muslim preacher clothing, or a prayer mat.
I don't want to get in any arguments with anyone. I like all of you, I never ask anyone their gender, age, religion, sexual preference etc. None of that matters to me, I'm always just here to discuss Sims. I'm under the impression Maxis is on some kind of world tour to get more money, and sure why not, but also think their marketing manipulates players and the word care isn't really in the vocabulary nor diversity, but a hook for more money. (Under the guise of diversity and caring and tolerance, uh, no, I don't see it.) Call me jaded.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Why can't people just be happy or at least ok with the fact that someone somewhere is feeling represented by this content. It doesn't mean they won't include other cultures/religions. Inclusiveness is not pie. Plus, being it religious or not, the fact is a lot of people wear hijabs in many different places, and they wear it in their everyday lives, which makes it cultural, unlike other strictly religious items people have been mentioning. Just chill, if you dont like it, dont use it.
Why can't people just be happy or at least ok with the fact that someone somewhere is feeling represented by this content. It doesn't mean they won't include other cultures/religions. Inclusiveness is not pie. Plus, being it religious or not, the fact is a lot of people wear hijabs in many different places, and they wear it in their everyday lives, which makes it cultural, unlike other strictly religious items people have been mentioning. Just chill, if you dont like it, dont use it.
Why can't people just be happy or at least ok with the fact that someone somewhere is feeling represented by this content. It doesn't mean they won't include other cultures/religions. Inclusiveness is not pie. Plus, being it religious or not, the fact is a lot of people wear hijabs in many different places, and they wear it in their everyday lives, which makes it cultural, unlike other strictly religious items people have been mentioning. Just chill, if you dont like it, dont use it.
considering that the rules prevent us for even asking for it, I'm very sure that they won't include other religions.
The rules prevent topics like "if you added Muslim, I want the religion X" which is totally understandable. If the approach was "Hey, I'm glad you're worried about inclusion and would be very happy if you made content based on my culture as well", I'm pretty sure the topic wouldn't be closed.
As I said, it's not pie. There's room for everyone. People should just stop being selfish and think "ok they did this, I hope they also do that" instead of "how dare they do this if they didn't do that".
And I highly doubt EA won't try to include other cultures, as they said themselves:
"As it has been commented here already, we've created content inspired by other cultures in the past. We decided to bring Muslim-inspired content to The Sims 4 because we are upholding our values of belonging and inclusivity, and want to provide players with opportunities to accurate represent themselves in game and play with life."
Why can't people just be happy or at least ok with the fact that someone somewhere is feeling represented by this content. It doesn't mean they won't include other cultures/religions. Inclusiveness is not pie. Plus, being it religious or not, the fact is a lot of people wear hijabs in many different places, and they wear it in their everyday lives, which makes it cultural, unlike other strictly religious items people have been mentioning. Just chill, if you dont like it, dont use it.
considering that the rules prevent us for even asking for it, I'm very sure that they won't include other religions.
The rules prevent topics like "if you added Muslim, I want the religion X" which is totally understandable. If the approach was "Hey, I'm glad you're worried about inclusion and would be very happy if you made content based on my culture as well", I'm pretty sure the topic wouldn't be closed.
As I said, it's not pie. There's room for everyone. People should just stop being selfish and think "ok they did this, I hope they also do that" instead of "how dare they do this if they didn't do that".
And I highly doubt EA won't try to include other cultures, as they said themselves:
"As it has been commented here already, we've created content inspired by other cultures in the past. We decided to bring Muslim-inspired content to The Sims 4 because we are upholding our values of belonging and inclusivity, and want to provide players with opportunities to accurate represent themselves in game and play with life."
Muslim means to follow Islam same as Christian means to follow Christ. It's a term, not a culture nor a race. Not all MiddleEastern people are Muslim, it's a term. So when they say 'Muslim Inspired' culture content, they should have researched what that means, it's religious in nature, and therefore a nod to religion. It's like saying we created Chistian Inspired content. The hypocrisy here is unbelievable or just they don't even know what Muslim means, it's not a word to describe a people/place but a term meaning a follower of Islam and in such is a religion but by their own words Religion is banned...now how can they possbily not understand what they have said.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I'm so tired of trying to teach people who don't wanna listen. What's the point really? 😂
And maybe non Muslim women don't wanna wear hijabs or head scarves thatare close to looking like that cuz they probably think they're gonna be attacked for it?Maybe people should think about that too. But they all aren't complaining about there are these sick people who attack innocent people? Such a shame.
Society and media have really messed with people's minds. It's sad for me to wake up today and find out that a chunk of the sim community is like this in 2019 still. 😔 Ridiculous.
Or maybe we're from a very diverse geographical background. I live in UK. Those who wear burkas or hijabs do so because religion is a strong part of their identity. However we also have a very varied Jewish community here too. You can see religion in the way that people dress, walk and present themselves. And being in a multicultural society, we don't judge each other based on that. But all religion should be treated the same. In reality, you wouldn't make a law that bans all religious items, except for hijab, because it's "cultural". Many communities would lose their minds if you tried doing that. However when it is The Sims, suddenly it's bigoted to ask for other religions to be treated the same?
Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
Also, I'm not arguing with you about why they don't add other religion to the game as well. I would love there to be diversity (or none of it at all cuz I'm tired of butt hurt people whining that everything is unfair).
But my main argument with you is that the head scarf is not a religious item. That's it.
But we know how Maxis intended it don't we? To represent the Muslim faith, and we do know some countries who are fundamenalist require the woman to wear it, don't they? It's still very much a practice and requirement as it ever was in some places.
Why don't you ask Maxis that yourself and not just jump into conclusions, huh?
I don't have to ask Maxis, they just made a big speech not long ago of how they are building more than a game, and preached on their trip to be inclusive in the next several years to build an impression. To me without the practice of religion and just dress up, it's as much an insult to those who wanted a gender patch so they could make transgenders (male/female frame etc.) and honestly I'm waiting to see if they add a cross or a church in a patch and not just on the gallery, or robes for a priest or rosary or something. I think I might be waiting a very long time since any discussion of Christianity has always earned a warning and a ban. But not other religions.
You’re talking as if they just added mosques, Muslim preacher clothing, or a prayer mat.
I don't want to get in any arguments with anyone. I like all of you, I never ask anyone their gender, age, religion, sexual preference etc. None of that matters to me, I'm always just here to discuss Sims. I'm under the impression Maxis is on some kind of world tour to get more money, and sure why not, but also think their marketing manipulates players and the word care isn't really in the vocabulary nor diversity, but a hook for more money. (Under the guise of diversity and caring and tolerance, uh, no, I don't see it.) Call me jaded.
Yes, I do think you're a bit jaded, to be honest, lol. But in some aspects, I can understand what you're saying and in some small ways, agree. Yes, the company is out for marketing and money. That's a given. Capitalism. But I also don't think that adding diversity and other cultures into the Sims is unreasonable, nor is it unexpected. As the game has become more international, it only makes sense to include those factions of players. And as the game has embraced more international players, it became more glaringly obvious just how little actual representation there was. People of the core player base who played older iterations aren't as likely to notice this, because we got so used to the game being focused on American middle class society, possibly because many of us are naturally part of it ourselves. (I originally came from lower/poor class, but in a rich country like the U.S., that's still the equivalent of some regions' middle class.) But an American's "normal" in game can be very different from the player of another country's "normal", so for people in other regions, adding in some CAS and Build/Buy that feels more natural to them is being inclusive to their society and adding to their sandbox simulation. Not everyone needs to use it. That's the power of choice. And players are always demanding choices, aren't they? Or are people only receptive to the choices that they relate to?
But I think that's where part of the problem of discontent lies. It's not all in EA/Maxis and their agendas or evolution. Some of it is in the basic ignorance on the players' side, those who kind of live in their own bubble and don't like change and don't realize there's an entire eclectic world out there to live in harmony with through the same game. And I'm truly, sincerely not trying to say this to be insulting to anyone or bait. Honestly. I just think that some people are very set in their ways, very stubborn in their ideals, very rigid in their expectations, and therefore, have a more difficult time accepting new concepts and changes. Especially when those changes affect something they have a personal attachment to. It's unfortunate because those people do end up feeling left behind, and it's a shame.
**Clarifying that this post is strictly in reference to cultural additions and diversity. Game mechanics and basic content preferences are off-topic and not addressed here.
My take is that I don't care if it's a religious item or not. I'm just starting to think that EA are intentionally looking for the most hideous looking items to put in our games on purpose and I bet it will be enabled for randoms just to make it even more annoying. I miss the Sims 2 days where the game was just a game and packs/updates were just packs and updates without all the political statements.
My take is that I don't care if it's a religious item or not. I'm just starting to think that EA are intentionally looking for the most hideous looking items to put in our games on purpose and I bet it will be enabled for randoms just to make it even more annoying. I miss the Sims 2 days where the game was just a game and packs/updates were just packs and updates without all the political statements.
Hideous????? Are you kidding me? hijabs have beautiful patterns on them!
People are really revealing their bigotry based on an optional piece of cloth being added to CAS. Sad. I hoped the community was better than this but it seems it's no different than any other toxic gaming community.
Hopefully the items will not be enabled for random as far as I have noticed the pride items are not. I got nothing against muslims, gay people etc. But when you add those items to a game that has a clothing generator that makes people who are supposed to cosplay during nerdcon wearing purple glasses with a green top and no pants...consider me worried.
This is the same game where the mechanic in taking care of the environment consists of you fighting sims with a ! over their head and who are laughing maniacally because they are "anti-enviromentalists"
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Too bad, in reality there are also countries that ban burqas. What do you have to say about that? The world is like this.
Also, I'm not arguing with you about why they don't add other religion to the game as well. I would love there to be diversity (or none of it at all cuz I'm tired of butt hurt people whining that everything is unfair).
But my main argument with you is that the head scarf is not a religious item. That's it.
Lol I’m pretty sure they didn’t! I know I wouldn’t have. Yet despite this it was used as a form of subjugation and control.
Probably why I enjoyed learning about the Mosuo society. After being taught patriarchy their culture was fascinating to me.
Thank you! Some people around here don't even see their own contradictions.
It didn't start as a religious practice, it still IS a religious practice. That's the difference. I know that I'm observing a religious tradition. You insist that religious clothing is cultural.
And there are places where you will receive a public flocking for not wearing it, or go to jail if your sleeves are too short. How is this a conversational point?
Yup, the name itself comes from Yiddish and while they're no longer exclusively used by Orthodox Jewish women (but then, neither are other headcoverings
I'd really love to see more items from various cultures around the world that is often underrepresented. Traditional dresses too, please (there are so so many of them in Europe) like flamenco dresses or lederhosen or shepherd clothing. And of course, other headscarves from various other regions.
(now, I can dream, but one day I hope they'll include scarves as an option for neckwear too
But we know how Maxis intended it don't we? To represent the Muslim faith, and we do know some countries who are fundamenalist require the woman to wear it, don't they? It's still very much a practice and requirement as it ever was in some places.
This is the opposite version of what might happen to those who wear the hijab in Western countries.
"Although Indonesia’s constitution promotes religious freedom, Islamic extremist groups are becoming more influential in pushing for an Islamic nation. Some regions of Indonesia already operate under Islamic law (Sharia), which poses a threat to Christians and other religious minorities."
Hiding in plain sight. camouflage.
Maybe because religion is very intertwined with culture? 🤦🏽♀️
What difference are you talking about? I don’t get it. It’s like you are using circular reasoning, it is because I believe it is, I believe it is because it is!
Of course to many it IS still a religious custom. Yet there are many others that observe, practice, take part in it despite not giving the holiday any religious connotation. You, are an example of that. So if you can do it, why can others? Or is it that it’s only palatable to you if it applies to what you are comfortable with?
Yes, there are. But you said, the community will go crazy if all religion was banned except for hijabs. But you didn't look at it the other way, that there are some places where they ban certain religious practices. That's what I call irony.
Why don't you ask Maxis that yourself and not just jump into conclusions, huh?
Because we are talking sims and not real world laws. When I gave that example, it's because that is how it is in sims. Now we have the clothing of one religion, meaning that all other religious clothing is effectively banned as your sims have no way of buying them.
LOL, are you okay? I think you need to sit down. 😂
Correction: you observe something that could be religious practice, depending on the household celebrating it, but Christmas is also commonly not recognized as such, since it's much more secular in modern days. I know many atheists who celebrate Christmas with absolutely no religious connotations. They do it in their own way. I also know Christians who take the time to honor their religion on that day as well. In truth, the holiday was initially stolen by the Christians from the Pagans, and the interpretation and celebration has transformed over the years. Interpretation is key to understanding here. And to go back to the hijab, it's even religiously and philosophically debated as to whether it's a proper interpretation from the Quran that all women should wear it, or if it was exclusively for the prophet's wives. Not so different than the many, many debates regarding Bible passages. But anyway, like you said yourself, Christians sometimes have their "Sunday best", which are used in respect to their religion, but that doesn't suddenly make those garments sacred holy items, does it? The same thing can be worn as a formality elsewhere.
To some women, a hijab can be regarded similarly to a Sari or a Kimono, to be worn traditionally and/or culturally or just out of respect for one's self or family. As the world continues to change and progress, so does the meaning of garments like hijabs. Again, there is no single interpretation. Therefore, it is not strictly a religious object.
I don't have to ask Maxis, they just made a big speech not long ago of how they are building more than a game, and preached on their trip to be inclusive in the next several years to build an impression. To me without the practice of religion and just dress up, it's as much an insult to those who wanted a gender patch so they could make transgenders (male/female frame etc.) and honestly I'm waiting to see if they add a cross or a church in a patch and not just on the gallery, or robes for a priest or rosary or something. I think I might be waiting a very long time since any discussion of Christianity has always earned a warning and a ban. But not other religions.
You’re talking as if they just added mosques, Muslim preacher clothing, or a prayer mat.
I don't want to get in any arguments with anyone. I like all of you, I never ask anyone their gender, age, religion, sexual preference etc. None of that matters to me, I'm always just here to discuss Sims. I'm under the impression Maxis is on some kind of world tour to get more money, and sure why not, but also think their marketing manipulates players and the word care isn't really in the vocabulary nor diversity, but a hook for more money. (Under the guise of diversity and caring and tolerance, uh, no, I don't see it.) Call me jaded.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/965467/where-is-the-christian-content/p3
considering that the rules prevent us for even asking for it, I'm very sure that they won't include other religions.
The rules prevent topics like "if you added Muslim, I want the religion X" which is totally understandable. If the approach was "Hey, I'm glad you're worried about inclusion and would be very happy if you made content based on my culture as well", I'm pretty sure the topic wouldn't be closed.
As I said, it's not pie. There's room for everyone. People should just stop being selfish and think "ok they did this, I hope they also do that" instead of "how dare they do this if they didn't do that".
And I highly doubt EA won't try to include other cultures, as they said themselves:
"As it has been commented here already, we've created content inspired by other cultures in the past. We decided to bring Muslim-inspired content to The Sims 4 because we are upholding our values of belonging and inclusivity, and want to provide players with opportunities to accurate represent themselves in game and play with life."
Muslim means to follow Islam same as Christian means to follow Christ. It's a term, not a culture nor a race. Not all MiddleEastern people are Muslim, it's a term. So when they say 'Muslim Inspired' culture content, they should have researched what that means, it's religious in nature, and therefore a nod to religion. It's like saying we created Chistian Inspired content. The hypocrisy here is unbelievable or just they don't even know what Muslim means, it's not a word to describe a people/place but a term meaning a follower of Islam and in such is a religion but by their own words Religion is banned...now how can they possbily not understand what they have said.
Yes, I do think you're a bit jaded, to be honest, lol. But in some aspects, I can understand what you're saying and in some small ways, agree. Yes, the company is out for marketing and money. That's a given. Capitalism. But I also don't think that adding diversity and other cultures into the Sims is unreasonable, nor is it unexpected. As the game has become more international, it only makes sense to include those factions of players. And as the game has embraced more international players, it became more glaringly obvious just how little actual representation there was. People of the core player base who played older iterations aren't as likely to notice this, because we got so used to the game being focused on American middle class society, possibly because many of us are naturally part of it ourselves. (I originally came from lower/poor class, but in a rich country like the U.S., that's still the equivalent of some regions' middle class.) But an American's "normal" in game can be very different from the player of another country's "normal", so for people in other regions, adding in some CAS and Build/Buy that feels more natural to them is being inclusive to their society and adding to their sandbox simulation. Not everyone needs to use it. That's the power of choice. And players are always demanding choices, aren't they? Or are people only receptive to the choices that they relate to?
But I think that's where part of the problem of discontent lies. It's not all in EA/Maxis and their agendas or evolution. Some of it is in the basic ignorance on the players' side, those who kind of live in their own bubble and don't like change and don't realize there's an entire eclectic world out there to live in harmony with through the same game. And I'm truly, sincerely not trying to say this to be insulting to anyone or bait. Honestly. I just think that some people are very set in their ways, very stubborn in their ideals, very rigid in their expectations, and therefore, have a more difficult time accepting new concepts and changes. Especially when those changes affect something they have a personal attachment to. It's unfortunate because those people do end up feeling left behind, and it's a shame.
**Clarifying that this post is strictly in reference to cultural additions and diversity. Game mechanics and basic content preferences are off-topic and not addressed here.
Hideous????? Are you kidding me? hijabs have beautiful patterns on them!
This is the same game where the mechanic in taking care of the environment consists of you fighting sims with a ! over their head and who are laughing maniacally because they are "anti-enviromentalists"