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Tay Bayless



  • emorrillemorrill Posts: 5,727 Member
    KevinL5275 wrote: »

    @emorrill Excellent work on making over the Bunch family!! I don't think you'll win over Craven though. LOL



    (Sorry that Gif is so large, but it's quite accurate. Oh and thank you. :blush: )
    *Celebrating 30 years of QL!*
  • mw1525mw1525 Posts: 846 Member
    @KevinL5275 - DM'ed you :).
  • emorrillemorrill Posts: 5,727 Member
    edited September 12
    Alrighty everyone! Here is the makeover I did of Chase Bayless! :mrgreen:

    So here's how she normally looks in game - with the clothes EA gave her upon age up.


    Now before I started her makeover I checked out her traits and...tried to give her the best hairstyle and clothing to match. :)

    So let's get started. :blush:

    First things first: I brought her ears in closer to her head and reduced their size a bit. It HAD to be done! :neutral:

    She looks 1000 times better already! :star:

    Next I modified her lips a bit as well as her nose. I think I moved the sliders very slightly on her jawline and chin. I decided to keep her unique looking eyes because...they seem to suit her. :) And I kept her thick eyebrows.


    She's really starting to look pretty huh? :grin: It surprised me!

    I threw a gorgeous hairstyle on her to show just how pretty she now looks, but I won't stick with it because I don't think it's a style that suits her personality. (Loner, Loves the Outdoors, Family-Oriented, and Angler)


    Not bad, right!? :smiley:

    Alrighty so...after playing around with a bunch of hairstyles...
    I finally settled on a short, sweet, and simple do. :blush:
    (Oh and I lightened her eye color and got rid of her poo green colored hair as well. ;) )


    Eh? :)

    Her profile is really quite nice.


    Next I moved on to her clothes because...good nelly! :confounded:

    I really seem to like this outfit. :p I used it when I madeover Brandontaylor's Ava, but honestly I think it suits Chase too.


    Now on to some random gameplay with her. :p

    I sent her to her beau's home (Jeffrey Castor) so she could show off her new look to him. :smirk:


    It seems he approved. :lol:

    (I hate it when their work hair is different from their Everyday hair... :unamused: )

    They promptly made their way to the hot tub...

    (Ok so maybe his Work hairstyle is better than his Everyday, but whatevs! :lol: )

    They got frisky under the water... :mrgreen:

    *SCORE!* :joy:

    I had to catch their hilarious face expressions when coming up for a breath! :lol:


    Back under the water they went. ;)


    When it was all over, Chase was quite happy. :) I love how happily satisfied she looks here! :p


    Gosh WHO does she look like to me? :confused: It'll come to me eventually.

    Anyway, that's it for my Chase Bayless makeover. :)

    Sim on everyone.
    *Celebrating 30 years of QL!*
  • mw1525mw1525 Posts: 846 Member
    @emorill - The normal version of Chase isn't bad to start with. Her ears don't seem as large or as opened as her brother's does. To me, her nose is the most out of balance feature. Plumping her lips made a huge difference in her face and her expression, she looks 'softened'. I agree with the choice of short hair, it frames her face well and you can see more of her personality potential.

    You did an excellent job on her makeover! She has an 'I know what I want and know how to get it' feel about her. I love it when the green happy face icon appears in their thought bubble cause I know they're feeling really good :)!

    BTW, did you ever figure out who she reminds you of?
  • emorrillemorrill Posts: 5,727 Member
    @mw1525 Thank you. :blush:

    No I still haven't figured out who she reminds me of. :confused: I wanna say it's someone I've associated with in my past and my memory is horrible so I'll probably never be able to pin down who exactly she reminds me of. :p
    *Celebrating 30 years of QL!*
  • EvalenEvalen Posts: 9,625 Member
    @emorrill Great job, Chase looks so pretty now. what a change. Funny she also looks happier now.
  • emorrillemorrill Posts: 5,727 Member
    Evalen wrote: »
    @emorrill Great job, Chase looks so pretty now. what a change. Funny she also looks happier now.

    Thank you @Evalen <3
    She really does. :) And seeing it filled me with happiness for her...even though she's just a sim. ;)
    *Celebrating 30 years of QL!*
  • EvalenEvalen Posts: 9,625 Member
    edited September 17
    emorrill wrote: »
    Evalen wrote: »
    @emorrill Great job, Chase looks so pretty now. what a change. Funny she also looks happier now.

    Thank you @Evalen <3
    She really does. :) And seeing it filled me with happiness for her...even though she's just a sim. ;)

    @emorrill I know what your mean "even though she is just a sim" I too get attached to my Sims. I even cried with one generation when the dog died. I guess I just get a little emotional over my Sims.
  • mw1525mw1525 Posts: 846 Member
    Celeste GilsCarbo.


    Tay and his family aren't the only Sims the team liked to pull these 'extreme' features on. Their pattern seems to be mismatched head for body size, small eyes, opened ears (away from skull), down-turned or frowning mouth. In Celeste's case, the lower portion of her face is so severely angled from cheek to chin that it appears 'sunken'.

    As you can see, I made several physical changes to Celeste. However, I let her nose and freckles alone. By the time I discovered Celeste, the social damage had been done. What this Sim needed was a 'fresh start' so-to-speak. I used an 'opposite' approach when deciding how to do her reMake. My goal was to physical remove her from the things she had been socially 'judged' on. So, Blonde hair was replaced with black. Short hair with medium length hair. Thick eyebrows with thinner ones. And, small touches of make-up. These changes made a huge difference in her life.
  • MikezumiMikezumi Posts: 47,366 Member
    @mw1525 Did you take control of Celeste or did her life improve while an inactive?
  • mw1525mw1525 Posts: 846 Member
    @Mikizumi - I did move Celeste into my Sim's home because she was living alone and struggling. While I didn't make her an in-house NPC, I don't really take control of her. I'll give her pushes to go places like the library or the park, I let her chose what do while at these places. Or, I'll wait for her to send up a request of where she would like to go such as a Sim's home or the Bistro, then I'll send her. So far she's managed to make a few friends, improve her grades (with tutoring from my Sim), and pick up skills in what's she really interested in. All without interference form me.

    I'm still learning Celeste by watching her autonomous behavior and reactions to Sims she encounters while out and who she choose to call over the phone. So far, I've learned she doesn't want anything to do with anyone in the Goldbeard family (including her mother and the step-sister whom she currently lives with). She likes painting and gardening and is very socially smart. There are mutual romantic feelings between her and Chase Cruz (NPC Policeman). And, she is very close to Pearl Inkbeard, who I am guessing (based on how they interact) stepped in and 'kind of' looked after her once her mom had abandoned her.

    Emotionally, Celeste only uses the 'no expression' look when in the presence of a 'Goldbeard', (those who hurt her) otherwise her facial expressions and body gestures portray whatever she is feeling or thinking at that moment. So all-in-all, her life has improved dramatically.

    Example of the 'No Expression' look - Celeste pauses to stare at Coral Goldbeard during breakfast.
  • MikezumiMikezumi Posts: 47,366 Member
    @mw1525 You don't think adding her to the household, whether you control her or not, doesn't make a difference to how other sims react to her?
  • mw1525mw1525 Posts: 846 Member
    @Mikizumi - No, not at all.

    From what I have learned, Sims don't seem to care about whether the Sim is a part of an active or inactive household. They either like you, are willing to tolerate you or they don't. If having an 'active' status pulled any sort of weight with the townies, then my Sim Benjamin (mentioned all the way back on page 1) wouldn't have had an issue finding a mate and I wouldn't have had to turn to the forum for suggestions.

    With Celeste, things are a bit different, so my approach has to be different. She clearly doesn't like being in the same space with her step-sister and I don't want foster 'negative' feelings any longer than necessary. Now that she has Sims in her life who seem to enjoy her company and conversation, a few skills under her belt and a budding romance, it's time to place her back into townie status. Still, I don't want her living alone (like before) so before I move her, I've got to snag Chase Cruz and make him a townie so I can move them in together. When she's fully free (of me) I can see how she uses what she has gained.
  • MikezumiMikezumi Posts: 47,366 Member
    I have seen otherwise in my game but I guess it shows that the game is well made if what we perceive fits out own personal beliefs.
  • mw1525mw1525 Posts: 846 Member
    @Mikizumi - This is a 'Simulator' and a 'Life Simulator' at that. The fact Sims have the ability to 'live' within their realm/digital space/world or whatever you wish to call it is what they are supposed to do and has absolutely nothing to do with personal beliefs.

    I totally get it, the idea or plain thought of the Sims being more fleshed out than originally thought or believed may be in some form disturbing to some Simmers. And, for some, the need to try to dismiss, dispel or, outright deny the fact that the Sims have the 'coded' ability to learn and the 'free will' to decide how to use what they have learned could be downright frightening.

    You've stated you skip over long posts so the following is for those who are interested in what the developers of the game have written concerning the Sims with reference to their personalities and its capabilities (with source link).


    New Realistic Personalities: Every Sim Is A Unique Person, With A Distinct Personality

    With the innovative and proprietary Realistic Personality System in The Sims 3, you can attribute each character with five distinct personality traits, helping shape your Sims behavior and how they interact with others and their surroundings. This new system will empower you to create extremely complex and diverse in-game personalities.

    In The Sims 3, Sims will go beyond the basic set of day-to-day needs to be distinct individuals with multifaceted personalities, who can focus both on short-term opportunities and long-term goals. With a wide selection of personality traits to mix and match, more than 700 million combinations of Sims await. You never know who you'll meet in The Sims 3!

  • TurjanTurjan Posts: 252 Member
    edited September 22
    I haven't seen any behavior in the game that isn't explained by the combination of traits, skills (here particularly how far away they are from the next level in a skill) and objects available to the sims, given objects have attraction values. The developer quotes don't say anything else, either. In this sense, sims behave in a very predictable way. There are some limited learning scenarios, like how kids learn to go to school by themselves if you push them a few times, but that's about it. Everything else is the player's doing.

    It's still interesting to learn how different trait combinations play together, as there are quite a few possible combinations available. The rest is gameplay, as even Sims3 is a player-centric game. Your treatment of Celeste is a fine example. First, you change her so much that she isn't really recognizable as herself anymore, but becomes pleasing to the player's eye. Then you place her in surroundings with instant access to potential friends, money, plus many skill objects she probably didn't have available before. Also, she is now active and interacts with sims and objects. Next you push her to locations the AI would never push a sim without certain traits to. All in all, that's the game working as intended, as it's you, the player, who is supposed to make the life of your sims better (or worse, depending on your goals), who are otherwise almost stuck in stasis - at least without NRAAS SP, which makes them at least skill up and follow their LTW's.
    Post edited by Turjan on
  • MikezumiMikezumi Posts: 47,366 Member
    The developers also promised SP. I didn't see any worthwhile SP when I played mod free. Sims only married in name (if at all) and never moved in together and they were marriages that didn't result in the birth of children. When there were children they would appear in the home of an elder and vanished when the elder died. Sunset Valley starts out with two pregnant sims and several trumped up relationships - trumped up in that if you control a resident they know nothing about their supposed good friends. Because SP was not delivered, I suspect the AI is as trumped up or so rudimentary it makes no difference.
  • mw1525mw1525 Posts: 846 Member
    edited September 22
    @Turjan - So, basically what you and @Mikizumi are saying is The Sims 3 is a life Simulator which doesn't have the ability to Simulate life. It's basically a situation manipulator geared towards the whims, wants and, the desires of the player. If that's the limit of your vision; so be it.

    As a Simmer who does play with the AI system and stands in awe of some of the on point emulations it returns for various situations; my view of the capabilities of this game are much different. Still, I am going to respond to your post and the points you were trying to make.


    I haven't seen any behavior in the game that isn't explained by the combination of traits, skills (here particularly how far away they are from the next level in a skill) and objects available to the sims, given objects have attraction values.
    -Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There's loads I haven't personally seen which other players have. There are a lot of thing they have experienced which I have not.

    The developer quotes don't say anything else, either.
    -Firstly, the above three slide images aren't notes or quotes. They are topics of interest on the subject of Game AI development which were discussed at a conference for people in that field or with interest in the field of game AI development. The presentation was given by Richard Evans, the man who was lead AI developer of this game. Each slide in the presentation was important to the subject and these are no different.

    -Secondly, I posted them to give insight into how the main factors of the game work hand in hand. Slide 1: Let's you know that the Sims do have a learning algorithm (like most games today barring Minecraft). And, the pattern of your preferences is learned by them, by what you choose (select) and how you choose to do it. Slide 2: Basically, tells you that traits are highly tied into a visual system more than the actual personality system. Every main point and sub-point he makes illustrates that point. Slide 3: Basically says while the trait system is great in terms of what a Sim will show (visually), it has no real influence on what a Sim actually learns. Their challenge was 'how' will the Sims use their 'action' base to convey to the player what they want. This is a look into how the AI system works withing the confines of the five dominant traits.

    In this sense, sims behave in a very predictable way.
    -The only predictable things in the game is tied to object/moodlet/want system. Read a logic book, want to buy a chess table, buy a telescope, win a rank chess match. That's predictable and will never fail to fire. Enter a tomb with a hidden door, get a wish to discover a hidden door. That's predictable. Repair your broken sink at level 10 handiness. Will it always work? Nope. Is there a way to predict moments of situational failure? Nope. If things happens when its illogical or improbable to happen ... that's unpredictable. The occurrence can be random but the action is unpredictable.

    There are some limited learning scenarios, like how kids learn to go to school by themselves if you push them a few times, but that's about it.
    -Keep playing. There are tons of playable scenarios to discover.

    Everything else is the player's doing.
    -So, simulation and progression of inactives doesn't actually exist?? Good to know.

    Your treatment of Celeste is a fine example.

    First, you change her so much that she isn't really recognizable as herself anymore, but becomes pleasing to the player's eye.

    -Maybe you missed the previous posts by cwaddell & Igazor which confirmed that there is (at least) some programming in the game which does affect how the physical appearance of a Sims can affect how some Sims are perceive and interacted with.

    That aside, I could have done anything I wanted to Celeste. I could have made her drop-dead gorgeous if I wanted. I didn't. Instead I made her a bit more Sim 'acceptable'. The changes to her appearance was to give her more of a 'social' chance with Sims than she had previously had. It wasn't and still isn't about me.

    Then you place her in surroundings with instant access to:

    potential friends,

    -The relationships her step-sister and boyfriend have developed also have no bearing on her life; she has no instant access to them simply because I moved her into the household. As far as I know, a Sim has to actually meet each Sim who appears in their relationship panel with the exception of visitors and the significant others of those whom they have actually met.

    Your 'point' teeters on a non-factual ground and is solely dependent upon an action that 'I' as player would/would not have to take. Meaning, I could have Ben invite every Sim he knows over to the house or they could all autonomously come to visit him at once. Unless 'I' allow Celeste access to them (by choosing to do nothing and let her autonomy run or by selecting Sims for her to meet) they will only appear in her relationship panel for a limited time. If she doesn't foster those relationships, they fade away. So, Ben's and Coral's friends aren't instantly Celeste's permanent acquaintances.

    -This is a moot point as it has no significance to Celeste's life because active Sims don't have the ability to access or spend their own cash autonomously (besides buying food when hungry or unless you have set up stores in you game), they can only really spend their cash when they are inactives. Buying a meal from the food truck isn't going to improve her life one iota; her immediate hunger situation, but not her life. And, she can't autonomously visit a casino while being a part of an active household; so there's that.

    plus many skill objects she probably didn't have available before.
    When I met Celeste she had a single point in guitar skill and no guitar. Ben has a guitar at the house and she hasn't picked the thing up once. Contrary to popular belief not all Sims go for objects simply because they have a high allure value.

    Also, she is now active and interacts with sims and objects.
    -As long as she's in the game she's going to interact with Sims and objects. That's not exclusive to being a part of my household.

    -Correction. She is now a part of the active household, she only becomes active when I select her to do something. Celeste go to the park (I've made her active), What she CHOOSES to do while there is her CHOICE. If she:
    -take out a book and read (it's her choice),
    -talk with other Sims in the park (it's her choice) or,
    -turns right around and come back home (it's her choice). Non-player selected or guided.

    Next you push her to locations the AI would never push a sim without certain traits to.

    -Not all Sims have the bookworm trait and yet, I've seen all Sims at the library. I sent Celeste to the library.
    -Not all Sims love the outdoors trait; yet seen every townie out in the park at one time or another or out and about in town. I sent Celeste to the park.
    -Not all Sims have the angler trait; yet I've seen a good number of them go fishing. Celeste has never been fishing, I guess she's just not interested in it.
    -Anywhere else I have sent her has been in response to a 'wish to' which she has sent up. Since I don't guide the wish system, I have no hand or say in what she will ask for.

    All in all, that's the game working as intended,

    as it's you, the player, who is supposed to make the life of your sims better (or worse, depending on your goals),

    who are otherwise almost stuck in stasis - at least without NRAAS SP, which makes them at least skill up and follow their LTW's.
    -That's an assumption. If you've ever seen a townie playing public chess (whether they are a genius or not), they are in-fact, raising their logic skill. If you've ever seen one with a guitar (whether they have the virtuoso trait or not) the are in-fact raising up their guitar skill. If you've ever seen one in the gym working out (whether they have the athletic trait or not) they are in-fact raising up their athletic skill.

    LTWs are a different matter (and it depends on which one the Sims has) as most were written for and require 'player presence' for it to be accomplished. Notice, I said 'most', not all.
    LTW - 'Jack of All Trades' - the Sim needs a player to be able to switch his/her job at level 5 for the required number of jobs before the wish can be realized.
    LTW - 'Living in The Lap of Luxury' - can be accomplished by the Sim itself without any player input as long as they have income.

    Hey, I didn't make this stuff up, I didn't write this game or code it. I just play within the parameters given.
  • mw1525mw1525 Posts: 846 Member
    @Mikezumi - The story progression you speak of does happen but it takes an extremely long time for the game to get to that point. You said ' Sims only married in name (if at all) and never moved in together..." But, that's exactly how and why Celeste was abandoned. Her mother got married and moved in with her new husband and left her daughter behind.

    You said you don't play on epic settings, so it stands to reason you will not see in-game SP play out. It takes playing with either aging turned off completely or a modified epic game length before the first true signs of progression is noticed. I started seriously playing with the AI in 2013 and didn't see signs of true progression until around 2016. Today I have 'realistic and humanistic' emulated reactions, responses and initiations coming out of my ears!

    But my goal is different from yours. You love and play with the genetic system and you seek Sims along those lines. I play with the AI because I want to see the game actually deliver what it promised. A living world which emulates (within reason) life. The programming is there, the ability is there, the Sims will do it; it just takes an exuberant amount of time, patience and determination to see it through.
  • MikezumiMikezumi Posts: 47,366 Member
    @mw1525 Did you ever take control of Alice, Celeste's mother, or have control of the sim she became romantically involved with? Do you "meddle", even in small ways to encourage relationships or to "improve" their lives, with your townie sims or do you leave them totally to SP?
  • mw1525mw1525 Posts: 846 Member
    @Mikizumi - Outside of Benjamin, Coral and partially Celeste, the world is run entirely by EA's Story Progression. My role is to build the foundation of a world which provides them and their future generations with everything they'll need to 'grow' on their own with. I don't have time to nurture romantic relationships. I will, however, stick by my actives as they 'explore' their options. Like Ben and Celeste, I'll make changes to help them improve their social-ability if needed. After that, it's all on them. They trial and error their way through relationships.

    I guide my Sims in areas of skill building and community. I stay out of their emotional battles, tiffs and other upsets unless things appear to be going 'too far' in a negative direction. I interact with the townies through my Sims by having them take prepared food to designated places so all of my townies can have a good meal. I keep up with births and deaths through the newspaper so I can give households with newborns cribs and starter learning toys for when the kid ages up to toddler. My actives manage their own social lives (non-romantic) with no push from me.
  • MikezumiMikezumi Posts: 47,366 Member
    @mw1525 That's more information than I needed but, thanks. Are the babies that are born in your game conceived after you started your save and have you seen pregnant sims out and about your town or did the babies just appear? Do the babies' family trees show both parents?
  • TurjanTurjan Posts: 252 Member
    edited 8:43AM
    @mw1525 I was not talking about your vision of the game - the stories we spin from the sparse skeleton we get are lastly our own - but about the mechanics that make it run. While there may be a few Easter eggs to discover, the probabilities of many actions in this game and their filters can be known, and the hundreds of available tuning mods are witness to this.

    The rest of your post contains a few confused ideas. Predictions are made on the basis of probabilities, which doesn't mean the outcome is 100% clear for a single specific action, but the probability of certain actions is vastly higher than that of others. Those probabilities are modified by traits, LTR's, etc. For example, if your sim has the "Genius" trait, there's a high probability he will choose to play chess when it comes to filling up his fun meter (the sequence in which sims work on their meters is also highly predictable), while most other sims will do this hardly ever, except if there's no other option, like a lone chess table. If you reload the game, the sim may very well choose a different action, because actions are randomized, but if you do statistics, you will see that the "Genius" will choose the chess play more often than other actions, provided (s)he doesn't have other dominant traits and options, like "Virtuoso". Your example of the guitar is filtered accordingly by the "Virtuoso" trait.

    As far as the attraction values of items is concerned, you of course still have trait filters, which was my point all along. However, you can see from many misconceived store items how disturbing for gameplay it is when those attraction values are set to a wrong value.

    Next you mix up the prediction of a sim's action with the probability of the outcome of this action, which are two completely different topics. Your example of whether repairing a broken sink always works is governed by the "Tinkerer" skill challenge, not by the handiness level, and as I said, prediction is probability-based and the outcome of a single action is completely irrelevant to what I stated. Then again, all of this doesn't really matter, as my statement was about predicting a sim's actions, and I predict that your sim won't repair that sink without you telling him to do so (although there may be a trait that modifies this).

    The same is true for who goes to locations. The game will push some random sims to the lots you (the player) visit, but the probability of seeing specific sims is governed by their traits.

    Regarding your makeover of Celeste, the similarity to your avatar pic wasn't lost on me. Now tell me again your attitude towards the sim doesn't change on how she looks. Regarding the influence of sliders on the perception of sims by other sims, I have stated myself that the body mass slider has an influence, albeit a rather minor one. Stuff like hair etc. has no influence, except on you, the player.

    Next let's specify our idea of what is an "active" sim, as there are different concepts to consider. You have the one sim you actively steer at a moment, you have the active family, and then there's the third category, those sims that get activated from their hibernation by the sheer fact that you, the player, point the game camera on their lot. With EA story progression, sims will never gain any skill without you, the player, getting them out of their hibernation. Let's say you get an opportunity to work out for 4 hours. If you go to the local gym, the game will push some sims through the door, and then you can see how they earn their first level in athletics, ever (in those cases they didn't have any to begin with), which I always find hilarious. If you finish your opportunity on your home lot, they are out of luck. They will probably die as unskilled as they were at the start of the game. The same is true for the park and those chess tables, or fishing holes. Sims under EA story progression generally don't develop without your input.

    I play on epic timescale, and when my original sim reached adulthood, SV was already on its way out. Most sims were at the exact point where they were at game start, except that EA SP had moved half of the residents out of town. When my sims' kids needed school pals, EA SP moved a new family in, with kids of roughly matching ages. That's necessary as townies never get any kids. They will all die lonely, without family.

    Fortunately, we have NRAAS SP. Here, townies actually get a life, even if half of it may be faked. But that's probably better for my computer, anyway.

    But enough of this. How you play your game and how you enjoy your game is your choice, and we all play games to have fun. Whether I think you are imagining stuff that isn't there doesn't really matter for that. I also imagine stuff that isn't there in my own game, though this (mostly :wink: ) concerns other aspects than game mechanics. As long as it's fun, it's okay.
    Post edited by Turjan at
  • simmerLellasimmerLella Posts: 443 Member
    edited 10:06AM
    Speaking of somewhat ugly sims... I never noticed but Justin Kayes has quite a large nose and distinctive ears... my current family includes him and little Luka inherited that nose... I hope he grows into it.

    I think Justin Keyes (I prefer to refer to some Sims a bit differently on purpose, lol) is a CUTIE. Maybe not a hottie but a big cutie. @ZeeGee Though I haven't noticed whether or not he has bumps on his nose. I sometimes think he probably needs a head downsize, just not an emergency STAT downsize, heh. He's still a cutie but I might find that his features are too large, matching with his big head. I just don't like big Sim heads and some have big eyes, etc. to match.

    Oh and I like big noses. I love big, round noses.

    ETA: I actually like what Chase Bayless grows up into on her own. I've no plans to edit her (except maybe a head downsize someday) but if I did, I'd probably just lower her whole "face" with a CC slider. <3 (I'll use that one on Arlo Bunch.)
    "Challenge everything"
    My new blog, currently sharing tS3 Twinbrook rotation
    Sims Crush: Kyle Shalom
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