after lowering the height of his face, lowering the height of his nose reducing the width of his nose, and other minor tweaks to his nose
after
Jaw and chin: - raising the height of his jaw and reducing the width of his jaw and reducing the scale of his chin
eyes: - increasing the size of his eyes, moving the apex of his upper lid from the outer edge toward the center and moving the apex of the lower lid from the center toward the inner edge. changing the shape to be a bit more open and lowering the brows and removing the reverse arch
changed hair style and applied eye liner for a hint of lashes and slight tweaks to the mouth
Bella won't age up well at all! Of course, that's just my opinion
...
I am normally about delicate tweaks when adjusting EA premades but I was brutal with Bella
...
I agree that she needs improvement but I didn't alter her too much in my makeover. Her gigantic eyes need downsizing more than anything else.
starting point
made her eyes smaller; lowered and changed the angle of the brows ETA also widened her head and jaw
view from the side to see the starting point of the nose
changed the rotation of the nose to lessen the "hook" and gave some mass
side view of nose changes
tweaked the mouth and lips and gave her eye liner for a hint of lashes
tried different hair styles
The first is what the game usually gives her. The last is Bella as Cleopatra. I'd probably go with one of the middle 2.
Awww, she's not bad at all! I first noticed her jaw and chin are a bit "off" compared to the rest of her face, but she does NOT need to be perfect.
I will remove her perma-smile (turn down her mouth corners) and give her bigger eyebrows, as I usually do that with Sims (along with a few realism tweaks).
(And/or I'll eventually make her look like one of the TS2 Bellas, or something else classic.)
And she doesn't look bad sex-reversed. My mouth tweak would fix some of that. It annoys me that "Beau" has different eyebrows from Bella. Simmers make me feel like a werewolf with their preferences and statements. I know some men have smaller eyebrows and less leg and armpit hair than I.
I do have a cc default skin that I love, so I wouldn't really see the EA default.
I only changed her for another simmer. I don't much care for female sims and many of the female sims in my town are male sims that have been gender switched to keep the population balanced with genetics that I want in my game.
As for "Beau's" eyebrows, I didn't choose them. The hair and brows were what he got when I did a gender switch for a quick look rather than how I would style him.
Awww, she's not bad at all! I first noticed her jaw and chin are a bit "off" compared to the rest of her face, but she does NOT need to be perfect.
I will remove her perma-smile (turn down her mouth corners) and give her bigger eyebrows, as I usually do that with Sims (along with a few realism tweaks).
(And/or I'll eventually make her look like one of the TS2 Bellas, or something else classic.)
And she doesn't look bad sex-reversed. My mouth tweak would fix some of that. It annoys me that "Beau" has different eyebrows from Bella. Simmers make me feel like a werewolf with their preferences and statements. I know some men have smaller eyebrows and less leg and armpit hair than I.
I do have a cc default skin that I love, so I wouldn't really see the EA default.
I only changed her for another simmer. I don't much care for female sims and many of the female sims in my town are male sims that have been gender switched to keep the population balanced with genetics that I want in my game.
As for "Beau's" eyebrows, I didn't choose them. The hair and brows were what he got when I did a gender switch for a quick look rather than how I would style him.
I meant it annoys me that the game code thinks those are male brows and not female brows. Or perhaps that her old brows were only female brows, and it gave him BIGGER brows. I don't find that relevant to my life experience (that's waxsperience, lol, and I don't like it).
"Challenge everything" My Sims blog
Sims Crush: Kyle Shalom
@simmerLella Now my brows look thin because they are grey but in my youth I had very thick, dark brows. I actually like a thicker brow on female sims but I haven't found any CC ones that I like and I certainly don't like the EA brows.
@ZeeGee - I like the 2nd version of your Arlo with the CC, he looks like he has a clef chin ! With the original Arlo, I don't know what was with the design team and their love of shrinking Sim's eyes while magnifying other features which already stand out on their own. In Arlo's case his nose and his elongated jaw.
It's okay about Arlo looking differently. Herein recently, for the Sim's 10th Anniversary, I challenged myself to creating a 'Then & Now' type of remake for the Sims of Sunset Valley. I didn't alter all the families, just the ones who I kept as permanent residents there. My goal was to re-design the Sims to have their look match their current lifestyle and previous history without changing too much about them. My avi is my remake of Tori Kimura, as you know she is employed in the political career and has a very serious, focused type of personality.
@cwaddell - Arlo looks very nice and balanced. In your last picture, he almost shows some family resemblance to his brother Ethan (but it could be the hairstyle).
In times of Darkness, Turn on you Light of Love and Let it Shine!
@cwaddell - Arlo looks very nice and balanced. In your last picture, he almost shows some family resemblance to his brother Ethan (but it could be the hairstyle).
Thank you. I also noticed the family resemblance to his brother.
@mw1525 Thank you. I did give the cc version of him a cleft chin with a non EA slider. I think that whoever designed him made him to look like a cute kid without thinking of the grown up version. Or maybe they just wanted to give us something to 'fix?' Hmmm, a long time ago (prior to discovering machinima) I was working on a Sunset Valley makeover. Thanks for reminding me! Wonder if I can find it. The houses are so much fun to make over. A lot of them have good bones but the colors are dreadful. I'd love to see some pics of your makeover.
@cwaddell I like your makeover. He looks more like Arlo. I should have left his face longer I think.
Funny how this thread originated by talking about Tay Bayless and his features, then went on to Arlo Bunch's unfortunate facial features, and then on to Bella Bachelor (Goth).
I think that Sims 3/Sims 4 kids don't age upe well ever, because the devs must have been tweaking their bodies while they were kids in CAS, it never make the mpretty when they grow up, it can even make them worse.
@ZeeGee - I don't know if they were a part of your SV makeover but I absolutely loved your Gunter Goth, Cornelia Goth, Agnes & Claire Ursine from your prequel series. The transformation of your Lolita Goth was absolutely terrifying in her decent into madness.
I have some of my makeover pictures online but they're captioned for the Sim's role in my game. I'll post the images without the text when I'm back in front of my PC.
@ZeeGee@cwaddell You guys saved Arlo Bunch! Wow. Ethan is not bad but Arlo got smacked flat in the face with the ugly stick.
I think Bella ages up well. I've edited her around a few times. Mostly, she just needs a wider head for her features, imo
You're right about widening Bella's head. I forgot to mention that I did that and I also widened her jaw. Most of my changes I did in Arlo and Bella were small, or at least not as much of a change as I would consider really good looking.
@ZeeGee - Here are some of the remakes of SV Sims (+x1 LN). Some look close to their original selves, others I changed to suite their role in the world.
Andrews Household:
Bachelor Household:
Wainwright Household:
Residents 1:
Residents 2:
Lenny Shutter: (Late Night)
In times of Darkness, Turn on you Light of Love and Let it Shine!
@Mikezumi - In one of my games, I changed the look of one of my Sims and his wife divorced him. I made a thread about it (I'll see if I can find the link). In another of my games, my Sim couldn't get a date until I physically altered him. I also made a thread about that one. In the latter, I had remembered one of the producers had mentioned that Sims can 'see' each other and this (can) affect how they interact with them.
...
It's hard to tell what is in the underlying code effecting attraction between sims but before Generations one of the NRaas mods, that shall not be mentioned, had an attraction system and interactions that gave access to that attraction info. From that old data there were many things that added and subtracted from the attractions. One of the things was how similar their features and body weight, etc compared. So if you had a sim that looked like Tay then a female sim with similar features (slider values) would be attracted to him. Sims with strong ethnic features would be attracted to other sim with the same features, etc. So if you had a "zero slider" sim they would be more appealing than one with strong features opposite to a sim. That is one of the reasons I tend to tone down extreme features.
I do remember that version of the mod had an interaction that judged the attractiveness of anyone everyone on the lot. It produced a file showing the pluses and minuses of attraction. It was very interesting. There were many more things other than similar looks that effected attraction.
Once Generations introduced the new romantic system those interactions of that mod no longer worked and were removed. Now not sure if there is a way to see the underlying attraction system.
@InfraGreen Thanks for the suggestion but I downloaded these recently and immediately removed them because, although the concept is excellent, the execution not so much.
@mw1525 Of your SV makeovers, the only one I would recognize would be Tamara. When I have made over SV townies in the past I have tried to retain as much of their original look as possible. Gunther Goth would perhaps be one of my favourite makeovers and I think I kept him fairly true to his original. Aging him down first softened his features considerably but I feel my tweaks were subtle.
@cwaddell - Who knows what kind of code was officially 'patched in' concerning the attraction system, or even if the code is working like they intended. Maybe this is what Grant meant when he said "They can see each other." All I know is what happened. Prior to altering them, my couple loved each other, afterwards he accepted her but she rejected him. The only thing which changed were physical appearance.
I wasn't using mods at the time this happened, but it is good to know NRaas was able to tap into the attraction system so early in the game's history to show what was being considered. I don't think anyone here could dispute that Twallen knew his stuff ! If he found code that showed slider position could affect Sim to Sim attraction beyond body weight; then it's in the game (code).
I know patch v1.42 with it's new attraction system totally changed the game and ruined autonomy. It had Sims calculating partial data and overlooking social rules of engagement for their traits and experience. Over at NRaas v1.42 seemed to give Twallen the blues!
October 29th, 2012
"It is an encouraging sight to see so many of my mods blown out of the water. It means EA actually made some substantial changes to the Core, rather than just phoning it in." - Twallen
A couple of days later he posted (October 31, 2012):
"The suite has been torn asunder, as some of you may have noticed from the fail last day." -Twallen
@Mikizumi - Yeah, most do look completely different as they are remakes/remodels (not makeovers) based on their current lifestyle, personality and past history (EA bio). Some traits had to be removed or added for character balance. Blair Wainwright, for example, is the genius child of two intellectual parents, who works in Law enforcement. There's no way she is a loner in that profession (not the way the trait is designed), nor would she be childish. Using her bio and her original career as guides, I created a Blair who (IMO) looks (and now behaves) like the detective she is (in-game).
If you look closely at them you'll be able to see the 'kept' original parts. But as a whole, they do look totally different .
In times of Darkness, Turn on you Light of Love and Let it Shine!
@cwaddell - Who knows what kind of code was officially 'patched in' concerning the attraction system, or even if the code is working like they intended....)
Back then when EA was still coding for Sims 3 they seemed to take ideas that Twallan had developed in his mods and code them into their new EPs and updates. Many of his and the rest of NRaas's ideas influenced the development of Sims 3, even if EA did not implemented them as well.
@cwaddell - Your vampire avi is awfully sexy! There aren't too many Sims who can pull that particular hairstyle off (that I have seen) and look great while wearing it. Great job on him!
Anyhow, back to Twallen. The social life of Sims would be so much improved if they (EA/Sims Team) would have taken some of Twallens' more 'common sense' approaches to situations. I know the game is supposed to be a 'parody' of human life and a bit quirky, although there is not a single thing funny about The Bayless family and all that is implied concerning their history (just a quick re-direct back to Tay ).
The romantic system including the attraction system would have benefited from NRaas' insight such as all kisses are not meant to be romantic in nature. And for goodness sake, they made such a mess of the jealousy emotion and behavioral path that even Twallen couldn't 'fix' it!
In times of Darkness, Turn on you Light of Love and Let it Shine!
@cwaddell - Your vampire avi is awfully sexy! There aren't too many Sims who can pull that particular hairstyle off (that I have seen) and look great while wearing it. Great job on him!
Thank you. That is one of my makeovers of Vladimir Schlick.
Anyhow, back to Twallen. The social life of Sims would be so much improved if they (EA/Sims Team) would have taken some of Twallens' more 'common sense' approaches to situations. I know the game is supposed to be a 'parody' of human life and a bit quirky, although there is not a single thing funny about The Bayless family and all that is implied concerning their history (just a quick re-direct back to Tay ).
The romantic system including the attraction system would have benefited from NRaas' insight such as all kisses are not meant to be romantic in nature. And for goodness sake, they made such a mess of the jealousy emotion and behavioral path that even Twallen couldn't 'fix' it!
Funny how this thread originated by talking about Tay Bayless and his features, then went on to Arlo Bunch's unfortunate facial features, and then on to Bella Bachelor (Goth).
It's been highly entertaining.
@emorrill Didn't get your tag, so I guess that issue is arising again too. This has been entertaining, maybe we shoulda done Tay! BRB
@ZeeGee - I don't know if they were a part of your SV makeover but I absolutely loved your Gunter Goth, Cornelia Goth, Agnes & Claire Ursine from your prequel series. The transformation of your Lolita Goth was absolutely terrifying in her decent into madness.
@mw1525 Thank you! They were not part of my SV makeover. In fact, Gunther didn't get a big makeover until I was 2-3 episodes in, rookie machinima mistake. I miss them, even Lolita. Your makeovers are really good, especially Jocasta and Blair. Why they made Bella's mother so unfortunate looking is beyond me, but you've made her beautiful.
@Mikezumi Aaaah, Gunther my love!!! .... Oops did I say that out loud? Being in love with a sim is a completely nuther different subject.
I couldn't sleep last night so did a makeover of Tay Bayless :
starting point and after toning down ears, slightly widening the face, slightly raising the cheeks, decreasing the crease, slightly enlarging the chin, enlarging eyes, removing half the eye slant and toning down the eyebrows.
nose before and after slightly decreasing the mass, removing almost half the rotation, decreasing the depth of the tip, lowering and increasing the scale of the nostrils
before and after tweaking the mouth and adding eye liner
other angles of the finished makeover
He had some sliders that were at the extreme edge. Most of those I moved halfway toward zero or normal.
Comments
I just did a makeover of Arlo also:
starting point
after lowering the height of his face, lowering the height of his nose reducing the width of his nose, and other minor tweaks to his nose
after
Jaw and chin: - raising the height of his jaw and reducing the width of his jaw and reducing the scale of his chin
eyes: - increasing the size of his eyes, moving the apex of his upper lid from the outer edge toward the center and moving the apex of the lower lid from the center toward the inner edge. changing the shape to be a bit more open and lowering the brows and removing the reverse arch
changed hair style and applied eye liner for a hint of lashes and slight tweaks to the mouth
I agree that she needs improvement but I didn't alter her too much in my makeover. Her gigantic eyes need downsizing more than anything else.
starting point
made her eyes smaller; lowered and changed the angle of the brows ETA also widened her head and jaw
view from the side to see the starting point of the nose
changed the rotation of the nose to lessen the "hook" and gave some mass
side view of nose changes
tweaked the mouth and lips and gave her eye liner for a hint of lashes
tried different hair styles
The first is what the game usually gives her. The last is Bella as Cleopatra. I'd probably go with one of the middle 2.
I only changed her for another simmer. I don't much care for female sims and many of the female sims in my town are male sims that have been gender switched to keep the population balanced with genetics that I want in my game.
As for "Beau's" eyebrows, I didn't choose them. The hair and brows were what he got when I did a gender switch for a quick look rather than how I would style him.
Zumi and the Winchester Brothers
The Watcher's Caretaker - A Limited ISBI
I meant it annoys me that the game code thinks those are male brows and not female brows. Or perhaps that her old brows were only female brows, and it gave him BIGGER brows. I don't find that relevant to my life experience (that's waxsperience, lol, and I don't like it).
My Sims blog
Sims Crush: Kyle Shalom
Zumi and the Winchester Brothers
The Watcher's Caretaker - A Limited ISBI
It's okay about Arlo looking differently. Herein recently, for the Sim's 10th Anniversary, I challenged myself to creating a 'Then & Now' type of remake for the Sims of Sunset Valley. I didn't alter all the families, just the ones who I kept as permanent residents there. My goal was to re-design the Sims to have their look match their current lifestyle and previous history without changing too much about them. My avi is my remake of Tori Kimura, as you know she is employed in the political career and has a very serious, focused type of personality.
@cwaddell - Arlo looks very nice and balanced. In your last picture, he almost shows some family resemblance to his brother Ethan (but it could be the hairstyle).
Thank you. I also noticed the family resemblance to his brother.
@cwaddell I like your makeover. He looks more like Arlo. I should have left his face longer I think.
*grins sheepishly* Thanks again!
I think Bella ages up well. I've edited her around a few times. Mostly, she just needs a wider head for her features, imo
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It's been highly entertaining.
I have some of my makeover pictures online but they're captioned for the Sim's role in my game. I'll post the images without the text when I'm back in front of my PC.
@emorrill - I agree, it is entertaining
You're right about widening Bella's head. I forgot to mention that I did that and I also widened her jaw. Most of my changes I did in Arlo and Bella were small, or at least not as much of a change as I would consider really good looking.
Andrews Household:
Bachelor Household:
Wainwright Household:
Residents 1:
Residents 2:
Lenny Shutter: (Late Night)
It's hard to tell what is in the underlying code effecting attraction between sims but before Generations one of the NRaas mods, that shall not be mentioned, had an attraction system and interactions that gave access to that attraction info. From that old data there were many things that added and subtracted from the attractions. One of the things was how similar their features and body weight, etc compared. So if you had a sim that looked like Tay then a female sim with similar features (slider values) would be attracted to him. Sims with strong ethnic features would be attracted to other sim with the same features, etc. So if you had a "zero slider" sim they would be more appealing than one with strong features opposite to a sim. That is one of the reasons I tend to tone down extreme features.
I do remember that version of the mod had an interaction that judged the attractiveness of anyone everyone on the lot. It produced a file showing the pluses and minuses of attraction. It was very interesting. There were many more things other than similar looks that effected attraction.
Once Generations introduced the new romantic system those interactions of that mod no longer worked and were removed. Now not sure if there is a way to see the underlying attraction system.
@InfraGreen Thanks for the suggestion but I downloaded these recently and immediately removed them because, although the concept is excellent, the execution not so much.
Zumi and the Winchester Brothers
The Watcher's Caretaker - A Limited ISBI
Zumi and the Winchester Brothers
The Watcher's Caretaker - A Limited ISBI
I wasn't using mods at the time this happened, but it is good to know NRaas was able to tap into the attraction system so early in the game's history to show what was being considered. I don't think anyone here could dispute that Twallen knew his stuff
I know patch v1.42 with it's new attraction system totally changed the game and ruined autonomy. It had Sims calculating partial data and overlooking social rules of engagement for their traits and experience. Over at NRaas v1.42 seemed to give Twallen the blues!
October 29th, 2012
"It is an encouraging sight to see so many of my mods blown out of the water. It means EA actually made some substantial changes to the Core, rather than just phoning it in." - Twallen
A couple of days later he posted (October 31, 2012):
"The suite has been torn asunder, as some of you may have noticed from the fail last day." -Twallen
@Mikizumi - Yeah, most do look completely different as they are remakes/remodels (not makeovers) based on their current lifestyle, personality and past history (EA bio). Some traits had to be removed or added for character balance. Blair Wainwright, for example, is the genius child of two intellectual parents, who works in Law enforcement. There's no way she is a loner in that profession (not the way the trait is designed), nor would she be childish. Using her bio and her original career as guides, I created a Blair who (IMO) looks (and now behaves) like the detective she is (in-game).
If you look closely at them you'll be able to see the 'kept' original parts. But as a whole, they do look totally different
Anyhow, back to Twallen. The social life of Sims would be so much improved if they (EA/Sims Team) would have taken some of Twallens' more 'common sense' approaches to situations. I know the game is supposed to be a 'parody' of human life and a bit quirky, although there is not a single thing funny about The Bayless family and all that is implied concerning their history (just a quick re-direct back to Tay
The romantic system including the attraction system would have benefited from NRaas' insight such as all kisses are not meant to be romantic in nature. And for goodness sake, they made such a mess of the jealousy emotion and behavioral path that even Twallen couldn't 'fix' it!
I agree.
@emorrill Didn't get your tag, so I guess that issue is arising again too.
@mw1525 Thank you! They were not part of my SV makeover. In fact, Gunther didn't get a big makeover until I was 2-3 episodes in, rookie machinima mistake. I miss them, even Lolita.
@Mikezumi Aaaah, Gunther my love!!! .... Oops did I say that out loud? Being in love with a sim is a completely nuther different subject.
starting point and after toning down ears, slightly widening the face, slightly raising the cheeks, decreasing the crease, slightly enlarging the chin, enlarging eyes, removing half the eye slant and toning down the eyebrows.
nose before and after slightly decreasing the mass, removing almost half the rotation, decreasing the depth of the tip, lowering and increasing the scale of the nostrils
before and after tweaking the mouth and adding eye liner
other angles of the finished makeover
He had some sliders that were at the extreme edge. Most of those I moved halfway toward zero or normal.