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Max Villareal - Evil or Not Evil?

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  • KiniHokulaniKiniHokulani Posts: 45 Member
    What an interesting discussion! I have never played the Villareals much, though I usually put Hugo and Sofia Bjergsen together (I like the idea of Hugo having a crush on Sofia, his sister Luna's good friend and fellow Paragon member, and Sofia eventually returning his affections and becoming Luna's sister-in-law). I think I'm gonna actually play with Max and his family now because of this thread and see how it goes. I don't think Max is evil either, just misunderstood and obviously been through some things with his Mom being missing.
  • BloosmooBloosmoo Posts: 465 Member
    I like the Villareals but I have only really played Jaques. I aged him down to find out what it was that sent him mad. He isn't, he just had a very strange family life where his mother revealed she was an alien and his father was constantly disappointed in him because he was "normal". I've dabbled a bit with Luna's story and she seems quite vacuous but now I've read this thread, I have a nasty idea why. (Grandpa Villareal) so once this 100 baby thing I'm doing at the moment is done, I'm going to revisit those four and see where I get with Max. Evil children disturb me but I don't doubt that they exist, there are too many real life case files to dispute it sadly, so I shall go and try to prevent Max fulfilling his destiny as a young Max the Ripper.
  • ladysweettartladysweettart Posts: 226 Member
    @DeafSimmer omg, you're the first person I've heard who also believes similar to me as to Mama Villareal's death! My head cannon has always been that since Jacques is the brains in the mafia, someone from a rival crime syndicate took out his wife. I have always seen Jacques' insanity (now "erraticism") and Max's "evilness", as happening as a RESULT of her death, not as a factor in her death or something that happened before. I also believe Max is redeemable, and that he just wants to be loved (both as a child and an adult).

    @KiniHokulani I am so glad you find this an interesting discussion too!

    @Bloosmoo I'd love to hear what your findings are!!! I 😊
    I have a YouTube Channel dedicated to Sims 4! You can find it here if you are so inclined!

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  • ryttu3kryttu3k Posts: 277 Member
    I suspect he's one of those kids who have never been told 'no' in their life, bullies others for his own amusement (it's literally in the Renegades description to 'be mean to Paragons'), is the one who really is in charge of the household (as in they mostly concede to his whims), and is generally an awful little snot. So basically, typical youngest child of a rich family. I don't think he's totally irredeemable, but I think being raised as the youngest child, being spoilt rotten by Jacques after his wife's death (really like the idea of her being killed by an opposing syndicate!), and, well, being raised by a career criminal isn't doing him any favours.

    I can see Jacques ultimately going to jail and the kids being fostered. Luna and Hugo are old enough that they can probably stay with friends (the Bjergsens would probably be perfect, Luna is friends with fellow Paragon Sofia and Hugo would know Clara from Upper Crusts), and depending on where Max is placed, it could do him a world of good. A household that's down-to-earth and realistic, but who also are willing to give him some boundaries? That'd be the ideal.

    If that DOESN'T happen, then I can see him following Jacques into the criminal career and end up a complete monster. Same with Malcolm Landgraab, although in his case, he's already in his teens and I can see him already being interested in working with his mother. Malcolm could be a pretty horrible influence on Max, too.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    edited August 24
    There are children with serious issues out there that definitely show that they are evil (I for one perceive psychopaths and sociopath to be one and it can show on children irl). The thing is, all the traits provided in The Sims 4 affect the mood rather than personality or interaction. I am not surprised that this kid doesn’t depict a Sim with an Evil Trait.

    https://sims.fandom.com/wiki/Evil_(The_Sims_3)
    OriginID: hestiah23 | Showcase
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  • telemwilltelemwill Posts: 187 Member
    I just played the Villareals in my rotation.

    Jacques is erratic. He has a late night criminal job. He sleeps in mornings while the children are getting ready for school. When they do see him, he is wandering around the house in his undies, talking to himself, getting into fights, and making endless home repairs. He doesn't parent.

    Looking at the children's rooms, Luna's is the only nice one. I think before things went badly for the family, she may have been a little spoiled. Though Luna doesn't have the erratic trait, she is childish and seems a bit off to me. She tries very hard though, became an A student on her own, paints, plays musical instruments, and dances. None of those especially well, but she seems to want to be well rounded. When Hugo bought Max a dollhouse, it pretty quickly became Luna's. She cries if it gets smashed. She sometimes makes an effort with Max, but is too needy herself and too young.

    Hugo is the responsible one. He does all the cooking and all the parenting. He was only a B student when he aged up to young adult, but he reads to Max at night and puts him to bed. He repairs the dollhouse. Unfortunately, he now sometimes has to work nights, so He is not around as much. He has tried to buy Max toys. He also refurbished, and cleaned up, his own room a bit and has lost some weight jogging.

    Max is an enigma. He never cries over the dollhouse, probably because he smashed it. But he quickly learned high responsibility and good manners. Empathy and conflict resolution were in the negative, but are now, thanks to Hugo, in the positive. He started out with no toys at all. I don't think Jacques even thinks about him.

    Since Hugo adopted him as a care dependent, he has been given more appropriate toys which he has used to max out two of his childhood skills and complete his aspiration. He is an A student. Some changes have been made in the Renegades. No more sabotaging. Instead they play darts and foosball and listen to music. They are only mischievous to Paragons now. And they have their own clubhouse. Only children and teens can join.

    Will this be enough to redeem Max? I don't know. Malcolm recently became a member. Will he lead Max astray or, possibly take leadership of the club and kick Max to the curb? I guess it depends on where my imagination takes me in the next round of my rotation.
  • SimmervilleSimmerville Posts: 7,088 Member
    edited August 24
    Interesting read! I made up my own story for this household, it will be one of several subject for the upcoming season 2 of my "As Sims Go By" video series :)

    I didn't focus a lot on Max though (yet), so I don't know much about how he behaves in my game. He is still a teen, btw. His father Jacques is a main character in my community story, and I find the household, house and background quite interesting :)
    Simmerville on Youtube | My blog is updated weekly: Simmerville's Sims
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  • ladysweettartladysweettart Posts: 226 Member
    Actually, children cannot be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder (what used to be called "sociopathy" or "psychopathy"). One of the requirements of the diagnosis is that the individual must be at least 18 years old. What children can be diagnosed with though is Conduct Disorder, which can be (not always) a predecessor to Antisocial. Most mental health professionals will not diagnose Conduct Disorder until a child is at least 10 years old, though that's not an official requirement. One of the defining characteristics of Antisocial as well as Conduct Disorder is a lack of empathy. The reason most won't diagnose it before age 10 is that before that a lack of empathy could just be tied to where they are developmentally (all kids mature at different rates and empathy is no exception). So to say children can be psychopathic isn't technically correct. (I'm a counselor, can you tell)? 😂 Probably why this topic interested me to begin with.

    I always picture the child age in the game to be around 8 years old, so to me, none of the children in the game could possibly be evil. That's my opinion (which I heavily based on scientific facts).
    I have a YouTube Channel dedicated to Sims 4! You can find it here if you are so inclined!

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  • SimburianSimburian Posts: 4,706 Member
    Surely it is up to the player to make him do mean things? He never will get truly evil on his own. Sims 4 makes you take more control of your Sim to get the required ends, I've found anyway. They may have emotions but they don't have all that much autonomy -yet.

    They do have the power to surprise you though, like using the washing machine or taking the rubbish out without prompting. :)
  • ladysweettartladysweettart Posts: 226 Member
    @ryttu3k that's an interesting connection you've made, the Bjergsens would be a pretty natural choice as foster parents. Though Bjorn flirted with Luna in my Black Widow LP, while she was a Teen, and he was an Adult, so I sort of see him as a creep now. (My Black Widow was engaged to Jacques so Bjorn was just visiting during the Engagement Party). Needless to say Bjorn was promptly added to the list of guys to Black Widow after that lmao. But I'm willing to acknowledge he might not be a creep in everyone's games lol.

    @telemwill very interesting, see your findings fit pretty well with my experiences and opinions about the family and their dynamic. I'm glad you shared that!

    @Simmerville awesome, I'm glad you find them interesting too. The videos sound really interesting. I know a lot of people complain that the stories for the households in Sims 4 are too vague, but I sort of like that they leave it somewhat open, so the player can form their own story about what happened.
    I have a YouTube Channel dedicated to Sims 4! You can find it here if you are so inclined!

    www.youtube.com/c/LadySweettart
  • ladysweettartladysweettart Posts: 226 Member
    @Simburian very true! My sims are all always obsessed with cleaning for some reason (and none of them have the Neat trait....go figure)!
    I have a YouTube Channel dedicated to Sims 4! You can find it here if you are so inclined!

    www.youtube.com/c/LadySweettart
  • AbraKadabraAbraKadabra Posts: 267 Member
    edited August 26
    Interestingly, I always saw everyone in that family as trash, except for Hugo. He's like a hufflepuff among the death eaters. Jacques probably killed his wife (or Max did). Luna is your typical privileged-Regina-George type of a sim, and Max is the demon child, like from that movie. I love them so much.
  • SimburianSimburian Posts: 4,706 Member
    Interestingly, I always saw everyone in that family as trash, except for Hugo. He's like a hufflepuff among the death eaters. Jacques probably killed his wife (or Max did). Luna is your typical privileged-Regina-George type of a sim, and Max is the demon child, like from that movie. I love them so much.

    I once said in a thread like this that he was probably on a Police Protection list, was given a new identity and hidden out in Windenberg.
  • ryttu3kryttu3k Posts: 277 Member
    @ladysweettart , oh jeez, that'd blacklist him for sure! The only adult I've seen flirting with a teenager so far was Don Lothario, which... seems about right. Bjorn's been pretty inoffensive in my game so far.
  • drakharisdrakharis Posts: 698 Member
    edited August 27
    I want to hear some opinions. I personally think it's bunk that they gave Max the Evil trait, he has it as a Child, and first of all, my opinion is that no child is truly evil. Secondly, Max has obviously been subjected to some trauma with his mother having died. I personally feel like his acting out is as a result of this. Not to mention I doubt Jacques sought out mental health support for Max during this time (Jacques himself is insane at this point). I truly feel like Max isn't an evil or "bad" child, he's a child who is probably hurting, traumatized, and emotionally neglected (his father is a big wig in the mafia and also insane, how could he provide Max with the nurturing and parental support he needs)?

    The other thing is that Max has been nothing but nice to any of my sims in any of my saves. I've even had some of my sims become romantically involved with him in baby challenges, and again, he was nothing but sweet and romantic toward them.

    All of this makes me feel like Max isn't truly Evil, but rather has some mental health needs that don't get met, and his actions relate back to that and to his probable desire for attention from his neglectful father (how better to get a criminal father's attention than to try to show him you're as bad as bad comes)? It really makes me wish they included more mental health related traits in the game. I actually now have a soft spot for Max having considered all this and really feel for him. He just always strikes me as someone who just wants someone to love him (as a little boy and as an adult).

    I'd be interested to hear what all of you think!

    I think he was kidnapped along with his mom saw things done to his mom and endured a lot of terrible things too while he and his mom were kidnapped by a rival crime family. I did a fanfic a while back about it. i won't go into it in great detail because of the kind of violence and abuse involved by the hands of the rival crime family. His dad went insane because he was unable to save his son and wife. Max was Jaques favourite and is the way he is towards Max is because of what happened to his wife and Max. Jaques is riddled with guilt and like Max really needs psychological help. I also believe his mom was murdered right in front of him by a rival family. He never wanted to be "weak" again and that is why he is how he is. I don't really see him as evil. He is a child facing severe trauma. How would any of us be if we witnessed and endured a lot of trauma just because of who our dad is? The people doing this telling them it's all their dad's fault they are in the predicament they are in.

    Before he was kidnapped and everything happened to him he was a wide-eyed innocent sweet child who was a perfect little angel. He didn't know what daddy did for a living and when daddy was home he spent his time doting on Max and spoiling him because of the 3 kids Max was truly his favourite and would read and play with him telling him stories. Max just thought daddy was a rich businessman. He was a good student back then too. Straight As all around. He is a D student because of what happened to him. He leads the Renegades because be never wants to be that "weak" and helpless ever again. After everything happened Max asked his dad to teach him how to defend himself and use weapons like knives and guns. After everything happened Max changed. From being the perfect angel to being afraid of ever being hurt like that again. It's why he is so loyal to those he loves and will do what he has to do to protect them and care for them.

    I fix my sims up with him because he is a great boyfriend, husband and father. Very sweet attentive faithful loyal romantic and a lot smarter than you would think. He is one of my favourite sims and so misunderstood. He is a great friend to my twins and is dating the girl twin Valkyrie in one of my saves. Her brother Azreal is his best friend and Valkyrie his twin is Max's best girl. He is very loyal to both of them in different ways. My twins are both vampires and it doesn't bother Max at all and he is just awesome. Valkyrie made him into a vampire. He is a master vampire in that save with immunity to sunlight. Even aged up he is really cool. I would recommend any of you fix your sim up with him. He really is a great guy. I would rather my sim date him he deserves somebody who is going to love him and somebody to love with his entire being.

    I think instead of using psychological traits like Stockholm Syndrome, Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, etc. they give us traits like mean and evil when that doesn't even describe the sim at all.

    Max suffers from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and possibly Stockholm Syndrome.
    Post edited by drakharis on
    Playtesting - not just tabletop games and card games any more. Really that should have been playtested in Beta and not [img]just with accounting and marketing but actual players. https://i.imgur.com/t48COW6.jpg[/img]
  • keekee53keekee53 Posts: 3,216 Member
    He is a gang leader in my game. He is one of my favorite premades. LOL

    He is currently married to Elsa but has been having a long time affair with his right hand woman who is much older than him. They have twin girls. The drama....lol

    I don’t really see him as evil but definitely has mommy issues. Someone posted the mean trait is way worse than evil now and I agree completely lol. My mean sims have been mean to their own toddlers now that is evil lol
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