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Why isn't TS4 inclusive of family players?

Comments

  • SimaniteSimanite Posts: 4,833 Member
    @Sofmc9 OMG your pictures make me want to cry with happiness. So cute and I miss my families. :heartbreak:
  • SindocatSindocat Posts: 3,934 Member
    This to me is an oxymorom. Its not gay couples that can have bio kids.

    Gay trans men, who still have uteruses, can and do have bio offspring with gay cis husbands. This is what the custom gender settings - which are there in the base game, without mods, are meant to emulate. With lesbian couples, you can suppose that a trans woman pre-surgery is also potentially fertile. Surgery is risky and, most of all, expensive. Some never pursue it, as the risks are too great with other health issues they have. Others can transition over years, start with hormones and/or top surgery, and form relationships, and start families, long before completing the medical procedures.

    I can assure you this does indeed happen. It's controversial in several directions, so I am not going to debate it here. But it is the RL situation that the game is set up to simulate.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,644 Member
    edited August 13
    I will be careful here (I know family play in Sims 3 - very thoroughly - and it falls short, I haven’t played families in neither Sims 2 nor 4 long enough to have an opinion), but might it be possible this goes deeper than “look what cute animations we got”? I’m under the impression Sims 2 digged deeper than that, and that thát might be the actual subject/issue here?
  • Sofmc9Sofmc9 Posts: 386 Member
    @Simanite Aaaww.. I really like that toddlers are able to receive gifts and can keep them as they age up to a child.. like this butterfly toy.

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    I like the option for parents to watch kids/toddlers play too.

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  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 31,058 Member
    Sofmc9 wrote: »
    @Simanite Yeah :3 maybe you can do this if you want, have a sim a parent give a child milk and cookies at night. : 3 You can give it from their inventory or as a present lol

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    Then read a bedtime story

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    And random pics ; )

    she has that book since she was a toddler

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    Encouraging child to draw

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    Gave art to parent as a gift

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    Viewing the painting

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    These are all lovely pictures but nothing screams out at me new, I can do this in all the other games, so, I'm not seeing any real new innovation here. And that is what I long for about TS4. Some new innovation because I can play this out in 2 and 3 and somewhat in TS1, and glad they add small touches but it's not new and innovative.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

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  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,436 Member
    @JoAnne65 Sims 2 family relationships feel genuine, weather they are negative or positive. It, to me feels believable. And relationships mean something right up until the grim reaper comes knocking. One of my sims left more money in inheritance to his best friend then he did his third child as the pair of them didn’t get on. The child laughed when their parent died, it was kind of morbid but it felt more believable than the child crying their eyes out over their parents death.

    That being said, sims 4 has improved in this area. The sims 4 pre parent hood and toddlers was awful. Children and teens were perfect and dull. Parenthood does give children a bit of character and that can have an impact when they grow up. Granted you do have to really push it to see the desired result and if you want a negative outcome at some points it feels like the game is fighting you. But it has made kids and teens more fun. My problem is I don’t play long enough to see the kids age up as I’m bored by then!

    As I said I still feel there is a lot they can improve upon- kids and teens need more activities for one thing. It still segways way too easily into the Waltons and a dysfunctional family as I said you really need to push to get but it has improved since Parenthood. I think a large part of it being so neutral is because people didn’t like autonomous scolding in sims 3, now it’s up to the player If a parent cares their teen stayed out all night -hint - they won’t care on their own! But that is a large complaint of mine of the sims 4 overall. Of course it’s not on the sims 2 level, it never ever will be.
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 24,176 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Sims 4 follows every trend going- I don’t think that’s up for dispute.

    I agree family play is still missing a lot. It has improved but family relationships still feel empty in many ways. Sims 2 definitely had it better.

    It's definitely improved over the years. The Toddler patch in 2017 was a major step, and they might be the best toddlers in the Sims series. They do need some help but not so much that you feel like your Sim has no time for anything else, and as they develop they can do more things for themselves. And children can interact with them a lot more than in past games -- I had one family where the toddler woke up with a nightmare, and instead of waking her parents she woke her older brother who was able to comfort her and help her back to bed.

    Some of the DLC helps fill out the stages -- Kids' Room gives more activities for them (I really like the puppet theater for helping build Social skill as well as entertaining younger siblings), Seasons has Scouting which is technically a rabbit hole but you still have to actively go out and earn the badges by doing various activities. Even the much maligned MFPS has an interaction where children can study the caged rodent and that counts as the day's school homework. But more could be done; I've used Spa Day to get my elders into yoga and meditation, but we could use more hobbies to keep them active. Adults need more love and a way to distinguish them from YAs. And teens could use more content so they don't feel like mini-adults.
    That may be convenient, it’s also not simulating life. Toddlers depend on you and when you have small children, there is little time for anything else. I love the toddlers in Sims 4 but them being so self-reliant for me is a downside. Why does everything in this game have to be so easy and why is easy confused with better?
    My perfect Sims game btw would have:
    • baby: covering the Sims 2 baby stage, becoming a Sims 2/3-toddler before they can walk (like it is in Freeplay)
    • toddler: a five year old that is a bit more self-reliant (but not completely)

    In a game where the characters dress themselves by whirling around I don't know how much "realism" this game really needs. One of the biggest complaints I saw about Sims 3 was how needy the toddlers were. (Although it led to some cute moments; I still remember when my teen Sim brought his girlfriend home after school and his toddler sibling was fussy after waking up from a nap; the girlfriend immediately went to the crib and picked up the toddler.) (And yeah, that pretty much settled for me that those two were getting married.) And Sims 4 toddlers start out pretty needy -- until they get one or two skill points they need someone to take them potty and to carry them down stairs. They can't talk until Level 3 communication. Yes, they can walk but not well when they're just starting out.

    I want to see family relationships expanded. If my Sim gets married, his/her spouse's mother should be recognized as "mother-in-law", or children in a blended family be step-siblings. If my Sim lives long enough to have great-grandchildren, that should be acknowledged. And more than just the family tree, but in the relationship panel as well.
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  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 24,176 Member
    Sindocat wrote: »
    What integral family togetherness play is there? This is an honest question. It feels like all the sims are roommates and not family members, as there is not many fun togetherness activities. There are MULTIPLE single sim activities. I only can assume that you are a millenial and don't get the concept of detailed family gameplay which I am looking to have. I am part of Gen X (entering my 4th decade IRL), right before millenials.

    The gameplay is currently boring for those of us who play long legacies. I have one family I currently play which is on generation 6 (this file is on long lifespan). The gameplay currently caters to the YA, party lifestyle, with only playing 1 to 2 sims. I always play with 4 to 6 sims because otherwise I get bored even faster.

    I am 51 this year. My sister's kids are Millenials. Please don't make assumptions about people you don't know, or sweeping generalizations about what various demographic groups are like.

    Volunteer As A Family is a rabbit-hole activity, but it does spawn chance cards for participants, builds Values for kids and teens, and is a group activity. My families do this to celebrate birthdays, weddings, and other significant milestones.

    Help with school projects is integral family play. I find my kids and teens tend to get school projects on the same day. Usually, I have the parents either split up, and one help each child, have everyone help the youngest first, or have the teen start alone, let the parents help the younger first, then join him to finish up. They gain social interaction all through this, since even if they aren't on the same project, they are in the same space.

    I routinely have a Sim "Call to Meal" everyone for a shared dinner. One kid - whoever needs the most work on Manners - will have set the table. My families seem to enjoy sitting down together, and converse without prompting.

    My kids autonomously play with each other. Adults and teens will spontaneously join a child playing with the dollhouse. Even when adults are pursuing their own activities, their kids seek them out. Maybe a Convivial Lot Trait is driving a lot of this, I don't know. But even without me steering them, my Sims families seem genuinely close.

    As I have said elsewhere, my main standard of comparison for family play is The Sims 3: Generations. I think Parenthood is at least as good at this, and in many respects actually better. Family play is the focus of my Simming, and I find it completely absorbing, heartwarming, and fun.

    My Sims frequently play Don't Wake The Llama together autonommousely if I place a game table in their house-- reminds me of playing games with my family when I was a kid. If one of my Sims is working in their home office, my Sim toddlers and kids will take their plate into the office and chat. When I have twin toddlers, they play together and babble or talk, building communication skills super fast. One of my favorite game moments was when my toddler woke up from a nightmare, but instead of waking the parents, she went to her big brother's room and he was able to comfort her and get her back to bed.
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  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 24,176 Member
    I mentioned this in another thread, but I think it bares repeating here. The lack of group/family interactions are sad, but the annoying thing is that there are so many small things they could add to make it better.

    Example: Toddlers can't do anything together except talk to each other, hug, and use a dollhouse (and even then, they're just playing by them self with another toddler just standing next to them). Wouldn't it be great if toddlers could actually able to grab some toys and play together, interact, look at each other, babble/talk to each other while playing? Show that they are acknowledging the other toddler's existence. Like in the kiddie pool, let the toddlers splash each other, and have the parents interact with the other toddler and their parent, not just the toddler they are holding. Currently it feels like the 2 groups don't even recognize that there is anyone else using the pool with them. The older life stages can splash each other in the water, so why can't toddlers in the kiddie pool? I get that some kids might act like they're in their own little world, but the option to splash their sibling or play together with pool toys would be nice.

    I'd like to see similar stuff for the ball pit and big toddler jungle gym. Show that the toddlers are playing with others. Give more little interactions that show that these two+ people are aware of the other's existence. And we need more than just a dollhouse in terms of toys for two children (which again, is lacking in portraying two kids playing with each other anyway). Let the toddlers (and kids) play with toy cars or stuffed animals on the floor together or something. Something else that would be nice, would be letting more than 2 kids/toddlers do this. It's sad having triplets when the dollhouse can only be used by 2 sims max, so one will always be left out. It would be great to let many kids play with these toys.

    Small things like that would add so much more to these interactions and make them actually feel closer.

    My toddlers totally babble/talk to each other when playing -- when I have twins they usually build Communication super fast. My child Sim talks to his little sister while they're eating. My husband Sim serenades his wife whenever they're in the same room together (and she serenades him). And all of this autonomously.
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,644 Member
    edited August 14
    @MidnightAura Thanks, I’d never try to play a family in this game without purchasing Parenthood first, it sounds like a necessity. I must say I consider that a flaw, like it’s a flaw that Sims 3 really needs Generations to enjoy a family. It’s a life simulation game and fleshed out family features should be basegame. I also think it doesn’t just come down to features only. Add tag, add gifting, add hugging. When people mention Sims 2 when they try to get across what they miss, I don’t think it’s about that. It’s how the sims react to their family overall I presume.
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Sims 4 follows every trend going- I don’t think that’s up for dispute.

    I agree family play is still missing a lot. It has improved but family relationships still feel empty in many ways. Sims 2 definitely had it better.

    It's definitely improved over the years. The Toddler patch in 2017 was a major step, and they might be the best toddlers in the Sims series. They do need some help but not so much that you feel like your Sim has no time for anything else, and as they develop they can do more things for themselves. And children can interact with them a lot more than in past games -- I had one family where the toddler woke up with a nightmare, and instead of waking her parents she woke her older brother who was able to comfort her and help her back to bed.

    Some of the DLC helps fill out the stages -- Kids' Room gives more activities for them (I really like the puppet theater for helping build Social skill as well as entertaining younger siblings), Seasons has Scouting which is technically a rabbit hole but you still have to actively go out and earn the badges by doing various activities. Even the much maligned MFPS has an interaction where children can study the caged rodent and that counts as the day's school homework. But more could be done; I've used Spa Day to get my elders into yoga and meditation, but we could use more hobbies to keep them active. Adults need more love and a way to distinguish them from YAs. And teens could use more content so they don't feel like mini-adults.
    That may be convenient, it’s also not simulating life. Toddlers depend on you and when you have small children, there is little time for anything else. I love the toddlers in Sims 4 but them being so self-reliant for me is a downside. Why does everything in this game have to be so easy and why is easy confused with better?
    My perfect Sims game btw would have:
    • baby: covering the Sims 2 baby stage, becoming a Sims 2/3-toddler before they can walk (like it is in Freeplay)
    • toddler: a five year old that is a bit more self-reliant (but not completely)

    In a game where the characters dress themselves by whirling around I don't know how much "realism" this game really needs. One of the biggest complaints I saw about Sims 3 was how needy the toddlers were. (Although it led to some cute moments; I still remember when my teen Sim brought his girlfriend home after school and his toddler sibling was fussy after waking up from a nap; the girlfriend immediately went to the crib and picked up the toddler.) (And yeah, that pretty much settled for me that those two were getting married.) And Sims 4 toddlers start out pretty needy -- until they get one or two skill points they need someone to take them potty and to carry them down stairs. They can't talk until Level 3 communication. Yes, they can walk but not well when they're just starting out.

    I want to see family relationships expanded. If my Sim gets married, his/her spouse's mother should be recognized as "mother-in-law", or children in a blended family be step-siblings. If my Sim lives long enough to have great-grandchildren, that should be acknowledged. And more than just the family tree, but in the relationship panel as well.
    I think there’s a difference between realism in dressing yourself and the characteristic of a particular life stage. I don’t need realism all the way in the game, but the life stages I do want to represent what people in those life stages are really about. I must add I’ve never understood the statement toddlers in Sims 3 are needy by the way and I’ve raised about 70 of them by now (and unlike what telemetry showed Rachel Franklin I really raised them, teaching them everything there is to teach, including reading books and things like that ;)). Of course my sims have to take care of them (but that’s what being a parent is about), but when they’re satisfied they’re quiet and friendly (I always make them play or read). Indeed, also teens can take care of them (lol, that’s cute she took care of the kid autonomously). For me their neediness adds charm to that particular life stage, because it reminds me of my own kids when they were that age and were very dependent. That’s also the reason why I immediately fell in love with Sims 4 toddlers by the way the minute I saw them in my game, recognition, in their case it’s the animations that are spot on.

    Agree with your second paragraph, that should matter. Like in Sims 3 I really miss how my sim won’t have some kind of extra recognition when she meets her dad or granddad. They treat them the way they treat any sim they’re friendly with. I’d love there to be a little extra (and I think Sims 2 had that?).
  • telemwilltelemwill Posts: 247 Member
    I bought the toddler pack this weekend, and my favorite interaction from it is the adults can help the toddler climb up the slide. It looks so cute!

    I've added some of the play equipment to my parks, so finally the whole family can enjoy an outing.
  • EA_RtasEA_Rtas Posts: 2,448 EA Moderator
    edited August 15
    Hey folks let's leave it out please with going into peoples post history and bringing up politics. I've cleared out some posts in here already so let's keep it to the topic at hand.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    ChadSims2 wrote: »
    My families swim, dance, read, paint, and travel together. They also play music together and make sand sculptures.
    So your families swim but dont interact together when they do so... your Sims dance in the same area but not together... they paint solo at their own easal next to each other... play music "together" but not really as they're all playing their own song... I guess I'll give you building sand castles with an entire 2 Sims since you cant have a group of 3-4 Sims do that together and they can travel together and do a lot of solo activities

    families do interact went swimming. They Splash each other and stuff like that. And parents can teach toddlers how to dance but the animation of child Sim dancing on his parents feet was better in Sims 2.

    It certainly has improved ever since Parenthood but it hasn't beaten its predecessors as of yet. @Cinebar They've only just scratched the surface so to speak.
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  • NorthDakotaGamerNorthDakotaGamer Posts: 1,788 Member
    Sims of all ages still act only as roommates. There is still no real "family connection" so to speak that is seen in past iterations. That is a major design flaw.
  • comicsforlifecomicsforlife Posts: 5,668 Member
    I would really like to see more done with families I mean we don't even have catch :'(
    the sims 4 isn't getting new whims right now and I think they have dropped them all together if we want new whims in sims 4 we need to tweet the gurus and tell them we like whims
  • RouenpucelleRouenpucelle Posts: 1,094 Member
    I want actions like "kiss on cheek" between family members to NOT be considered a romantic interaction. I keep almost accidentally having my Sim flirt with her dear father-in-law.
    Ooh Be Gah!! Whipna Choba-Dog? Whipna Choba-Dog!! :smiley:
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    @Rouenpucelle Mega cringe...
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  • DianesimsDianesims Posts: 1,275 Member
    Me too. Kids kissing parents on the cheek is normal (even more to me, here in France it’s like the less flirty thing ever, since it’s just a way to say hello to people you know). I’d like for parents to be able to give their teens kisses to. Besides hugs, there’s NO affection interactions for parents and teens.
    I want actions like "kiss on cheek" between family members to NOT be considered a romantic interaction. I keep almost accidentally having my Sim flirt with her dear father-in-law.

  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 18,224 Member

    "As it makes us the most money"
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  • SimburianSimburian Posts: 4,815 Member
    Sigzy05 wrote: »

    "As it makes us the most money"

    Maxis appear to be doing this with all the stuff packs so if Simmers don't buy them they miss out on kids' gameplay, eg. in Kid's room stuff, My first pet stuff, Backyard stuff. They are making family players part with their cash to get their generational play. In this latest stuff pack you get to take family pictures and put them on the wall. They all integrate into the game.

    All this "stuff" can be used anywhere though.
  • ihaveaplaniswearihaveaplaniswear Posts: 12 New Member
    I also feel like their idea of teens/young adults not wanting more family themed content is just...incorrect? I'm in my late teens and I've mainly played families in the 15 years I've been playing these games. I can't see why they think family packs wouldn't make money. I would hardly play this game without parenthood, which is great, but in all honesty doesn't add that many meaningful interactions.
  • comicsforlifecomicsforlife Posts: 5,668 Member
    I also feel like their idea of teens/young adults not wanting more family themed content is just...incorrect? I'm in my late teens and I've mainly played families in the 15 years I've been playing these games. I can't see why they think family packs wouldn't make money. I would hardly play this game without parenthood, which is great, but in all honesty doesn't add that many meaningful interactions.

    I know what you mean I always liked family play
    the sims 4 isn't getting new whims right now and I think they have dropped them all together if we want new whims in sims 4 we need to tweet the gurus and tell them we like whims
  • simmerLellasimmerLella Posts: 496 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Sims 4 follows every trend going- I don’t think that’s up for dispute.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_(company)
    I agree family play is still missing a lot. It has improved but family relationships still feel empty in many ways. Sims 2 definitely had it better.

    Sims 2 fit that time period - you said it yourself more or less with remote control cars. Families were like that - families are very different today. Everything today is about what is trending and from what I see of todays families not at all like the more simplistic Sims stories of Sims 2. Discovery and imformation did not exist for easy access. There was no Amazon - people physically went out and shopped for everything. Some things were great 15 years ago - but much was not. As a woman in particular and I am pretty sure most women would agree who were raising children 15-20 years ago. I would not care for the world to still be like it was then and I am darn sure todays teens and 20's somethings would not even know what to make of that time period if they lived it in their 20's and 30's or older too.

    Sims 2 my sim could rebuild a junk car in his garage or drive way. 20 - 30 years ago so could my husband in real life. Move ahead to 10 years ago and the housing authority would cite you for doing the very same thing in your own garage on your own land as not being allowed in your neighborhood. It is no wonder our Sims do not have that.

    Maybe it made a better game - it was a simpler time but let's face it - it does not represent people in 2019 very well.

    ETA - In real time Sims 4 is supposed to be almost 50 years after Sims 2 - not the same Sims 15 years later. Sims 3 was Sims 2 sim 25 years later.

    There absolutely was Amazon since the mid 90s, way before TS2 (it began with books and started expanding in the late 90s). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_(company) I know someone who had an account since the late 90s, and he's not even tech-savvy. I've had my account for almost as long, it's a lot older than from 2008 (as someone else mentioned using it in 2008).

    People didn't shop for EVERYTHING in brick and mortar stores in 2004 and before. In 2004, there was already the popular (to at least a certain demographic) shoe website Zappos. That and Amazon were convenient, but there were many other online stores already. Some just weren't convenient depending on shipping and return policies. Malls were still popular though.

    Google already existed, and it was already the most popular search engine by far. People who ran websites or blogs (becoming a popular thing in 2004) depended on Google more than searchers did. Now we go to Google for every little thing, but there was quick information to be found for fairly easy access already.

    We're not talking about Sims 1 times or the 80s, but Sims 2 from 2004 on up.

    I had to say this since (and I'm shocked at this) no one else addressed it right.
    shokorose wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    You must have some patches I never installed. I stopped playing the summer after Parenthood.

    Wait..what? You haven’t installed patches, and you don’t play the game? I’m confused ...if you haven’t installed patches, how do you know your game is so awful and broken? 🤷‍♀️

    Gosh, that thought fills me with so much dread I wanted to reply. I do not want to reinstall the game to test it out, the idea is very stressful and bums me out.

    I read all the patch notes, read up on all the latest bugs and feedback, and I think I know what the state of the game is. The thought of proving myself through attempting to play again is a nightmare.

    ---

    Anyway, I generally agree with OP. o:)
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  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    I want actions like "kiss on cheek" between family members to NOT be considered a romantic interaction. I keep almost accidentally having my Sim flirt with her dear father-in-law.

    I wanted to add that it would be cool if they still kept deceased spouses (whether widowed, widower or both dead) still married. I’d like to see them have romantic interactions and the family tree not cut off because they passed away.
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  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member

    I hope when he means “bits and pieces”, patch in the life stages slowly but surely for the least amount of bugs and a stuff pack for teens. I’ll give them credit for a teen stuff pack since TS2 did it in the past.
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