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Why isn't TS4 inclusive of family players?

Comments

  • TheIntrovertSimmerTheIntrovertSimmer Posts: 376 Member
    off-top but:

    i posted a slightly negative remark about TS4 on a facebook group where im a part of and the whole group started crying. they told me that i was just seeking for attention for writing down stuffs if you know what i mean.

    /roastme
    y'all got bread?
  • NorthDakotaGamerNorthDakotaGamer Posts: 1,646 Member
    edited August 12
    Sindocat wrote: »
    What integral family togetherness play is there? This is an honest question. It feels like all the sims are roommates and not family members, as there is not many fun togetherness activities. There are MULTIPLE single sim activities. I only can assume that you are a millenial and don't get the concept of detailed family gameplay which I am looking to have. I am part of Gen X (entering my 4th decade IRL), right before millenials.

    The gameplay is currently boring for those of us who play long legacies. I have one family I currently play which is on generation 6 (this file is on long lifespan). The gameplay currently caters to the YA, party lifestyle, with only playing 1 to 2 sims. I always play with 4 to 6 sims because otherwise I get bored even faster.

    I am 51 this year. My sister's kids are Millenials. Please don't make assumptions about people you don't know, or sweeping generalizations about what various demographic groups are like.

    Volunteer As A Family is a rabbit-hole activity, but it does spawn chance cards for participants, builds Values for kids and teens, and is a group activity. My families do this to celebrate birthdays, weddings, and other significant milestones.

    Help with school projects is integral family play. I find my kids and teens tend to get school projects on the same day. Usually, I have the parents either split up, and one help each child, have everyone help the youngest first, or have the teen start alone, let the parents help the younger first, then join him to finish up. They gain social interaction all through this, since even if they aren't on the same project, they are in the same space.

    I routinely have a Sim "Call to Meal" everyone for a shared dinner. One kid - whoever needs the most work on Manners - will have set the table. My families seem to enjoy sitting down together, and converse without prompting.

    My kids autonomously play with each other. Adults and teens will spontaneously join a child playing with the dollhouse. Even when adults are pursuing their own activities, their kids seek them out. Maybe a Convivial Lot Trait is driving a lot of this, I don't know. But even without me steering them, my Sims families seem genuinely close.

    As I have said elsewhere, my main standard of comparison for family play is The Sims 3: Generations. I think Parenthood is at least as good at this, and in many respects actually better. Family play is the focus of my Simming, and I find it completely absorbing, heartwarming, and fun.

    All the sims still act purely like roommates. There is no meaningful family connections in anything you just posted.
  • ListentoToppDoggListentoToppDogg Posts: 1,373 Member
    I mentioned this in another thread, but I think it bares repeating here. The lack of group/family interactions are sad, but the annoying thing is that there are so many small things they could add to make it better.

    Example: Toddlers can't do anything together except talk to each other, hug, and use a dollhouse (and even then, they're just playing by them self with another toddler just standing next to them). Wouldn't it be great if toddlers could actually able to grab some toys and play together, interact, look at each other, babble/talk to each other while playing? Show that they are acknowledging the other toddler's existence. Like in the kiddie pool, let the toddlers splash each other, and have the parents interact with the other toddler and their parent, not just the toddler they are holding. Currently it feels like the 2 groups don't even recognize that there is anyone else using the pool with them. The older life stages can splash each other in the water, so why can't toddlers in the kiddie pool? I get that some kids might act like they're in their own little world, but the option to splash their sibling or play together with pool toys would be nice.

    I'd like to see similar stuff for the ball pit and big toddler jungle gym. Show that the toddlers are playing with others. Give more little interactions that show that these two+ people are aware of the other's existence. And we need more than just a dollhouse in terms of toys for two children (which again, is lacking in portraying two kids playing with each other anyway). Let the toddlers (and kids) play with toy cars or stuffed animals on the floor together or something. Something else that would be nice, would be letting more than 2 kids/toddlers do this. It's sad having triplets when the dollhouse can only be used by 2 sims max, so one will always be left out. It would be great to let many kids play with these toys.

    Small things like that would add so much more to these interactions and make them actually feel closer.
  • ceyricceyric Posts: 1,573 Member
    Probably because they only want to appeal to Gen Z teens, which means nothing but social media, selfies, and parties

    I totally agree with you. It's sad to me that like 95% of this game is dedicated solely to single, young adult gameplay. Babies-kids and elders have barely anything to do or anything unique to them, and teens are just young adults with a slightly difference face. My only hopes for this game are that we can get a baby update and Generations-type pack to improve on the vastly lacking family play and non-YA life stages.

    Yes, all of the celebrity endorsements and game cameos, along with them removing adults and elders from their old cover art and only putting into teenage/YA girls in their new one honestly speaks volumes on their target audience priorities.
    keep on keepin' on
  • ceyricceyric Posts: 1,573 Member
    i remember SimGuruGrant tweeting that family-gameplay doesnt really appeal to most players so they decided to release Parenthood as a game pack only. he also refused to update the babies when Lyndsay Pearson asked him to do so. he personally believes there's no immersion in playing with families and that directly affects the output of the game. so that explains it.

    it's Grant Rodiek decision why we are left asking for more family interactions.

    a family-oriented expansion pack, aka Generations could have been better than Get Famous..

    most of us obviously need more family oriented game play, a full expansion pack dedicated to that aspect i supposed. but no, they be releasing full expansion packs like get famous to cater more on rich instagram girls with rich daddies and stuff who are willing to throw their money at EA no matter how bad the pack is.

    I'm honestly not surprised. He is the lead developer and he is the reason why TS4 is the way that it is now. Oh well.
    keep on keepin' on
  • telemwilltelemwill Posts: 50 Member
    I forgot about the school projects. Those are fun, but I wish not all the kids in the family brought them home the same day.

  • Sofmc9Sofmc9 Posts: 364 Member
    @Simanite Yeah :3 maybe you can do this if you want, have a sim a parent give a child milk and cookies at night. : 3 You can give it from their inventory or as a present lol

    kRn1e0p.png

    v5x39q7.png

    Then read a bedtime story

    u9bWu5F.png

    And random pics ; )

    she has that book since she was a toddler

    cqIKjwG.png

    tNum0hD.png

    Vcfzdsl.png

    Bjx9TPO.png

    Encouraging child to draw

    BPfh3l7.png

    OpKz3Bz.png

    Gave art to parent as a gift

    hlAxy3R.png

    ouNGSWY.png

    Viewing the painting

    tiqgwHK.png
    3kL91m5.png
  • SimaniteSimanite Posts: 4,497 Member
    @Sofmc9 OMG your pictures make me want to cry with happiness. So cute and I miss my families. :heartbreak:
  • SindocatSindocat Posts: 3,339 Member
    This to me is an oxymorom. Its not gay couples that can have bio kids.

    Gay trans men, who still have uteruses, can and do have bio offspring with gay cis husbands. This is what the custom gender settings - which are there in the base game, without mods, are meant to emulate. With lesbian couples, you can suppose that a trans woman pre-surgery is also potentially fertile. Surgery is risky and, most of all, expensive. Some never pursue it, as the risks are too great with other health issues they have. Others can transition over years, start with hormones and/or top surgery, and form relationships, and start families, long before completing the medical procedures.

    I can assure you this does indeed happen. It's controversial in several directions, so I am not going to debate it here. But it is the RL situation that the game is set up to simulate.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,244 Member
    edited August 13
    I will be careful here (I know family play in Sims 3 - very thoroughly - and it falls short, I haven’t played families in neither Sims 2 nor 4 long enough to have an opinion), but might it be possible this goes deeper than “look what cute animations we got”? I’m under the impression Sims 2 digged deeper than that, and that thát might be the actual subject/issue here?
  • Sofmc9Sofmc9 Posts: 364 Member
    @Simanite Aaaww.. I really like that toddlers are able to receive gifts and can keep them as they age up to a child.. like this butterfly toy.

    I05cXi0.png

    LKDaf1F.png

    8QCXmgS.png

    I like the option for parents to watch kids/toddlers play too.

    3eGNRe4.png
    3kL91m5.png
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,592 Member
    Sofmc9 wrote: »
    @Simanite Yeah :3 maybe you can do this if you want, have a sim a parent give a child milk and cookies at night. : 3 You can give it from their inventory or as a present lol

    kRn1e0p.png

    v5x39q7.png

    Then read a bedtime story

    u9bWu5F.png

    And random pics ; )

    she has that book since she was a toddler

    cqIKjwG.png

    tNum0hD.png

    Vcfzdsl.png

    Bjx9TPO.png

    Encouraging child to draw

    BPfh3l7.png

    OpKz3Bz.png

    Gave art to parent as a gift

    hlAxy3R.png

    ouNGSWY.png

    Viewing the painting

    tiqgwHK.png

    These are all lovely pictures but nothing screams out at me new, I can do this in all the other games, so, I'm not seeing any real new innovation here. And that is what I long for about TS4. Some new innovation because I can play this out in 2 and 3 and somewhat in TS1, and glad they add small touches but it's not new and innovative.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,101 Member
    @JoAnne65 Sims 2 family relationships feel genuine, weather they are negative or positive. It, to me feels believable. And relationships mean something right up until the grim reaper comes knocking. One of my sims left more money in inheritance to his best friend then he did his third child as the pair of them didn’t get on. The child laughed when their parent died, it was kind of morbid but it felt more believable than the child crying their eyes out over their parents death.

    That being said, sims 4 has improved in this area. The sims 4 pre parent hood and toddlers was awful. Children and teens were perfect and dull. Parenthood does give children a bit of character and that can have an impact when they grow up. Granted you do have to really push it to see the desired result and if you want a negative outcome at some points it feels like the game is fighting you. But it has made kids and teens more fun. My problem is I don’t play long enough to see the kids age up as I’m bored by then!

    As I said I still feel there is a lot they can improve upon- kids and teens need more activities for one thing. It still segways way too easily into the Waltons and a dysfunctional family as I said you really need to push to get but it has improved since Parenthood. I think a large part of it being so neutral is because people didn’t like autonomous scolding in sims 3, now it’s up to the player If a parent cares their teen stayed out all night -hint - they won’t care on their own! But that is a large complaint of mine of the sims 4 overall. Of course it’s not on the sims 2 level, it never ever will be.
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 24,101 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Sims 4 follows every trend going- I don’t think that’s up for dispute.

    I agree family play is still missing a lot. It has improved but family relationships still feel empty in many ways. Sims 2 definitely had it better.

    It's definitely improved over the years. The Toddler patch in 2017 was a major step, and they might be the best toddlers in the Sims series. They do need some help but not so much that you feel like your Sim has no time for anything else, and as they develop they can do more things for themselves. And children can interact with them a lot more than in past games -- I had one family where the toddler woke up with a nightmare, and instead of waking her parents she woke her older brother who was able to comfort her and help her back to bed.

    Some of the DLC helps fill out the stages -- Kids' Room gives more activities for them (I really like the puppet theater for helping build Social skill as well as entertaining younger siblings), Seasons has Scouting which is technically a rabbit hole but you still have to actively go out and earn the badges by doing various activities. Even the much maligned MFPS has an interaction where children can study the caged rodent and that counts as the day's school homework. But more could be done; I've used Spa Day to get my elders into yoga and meditation, but we could use more hobbies to keep them active. Adults need more love and a way to distinguish them from YAs. And teens could use more content so they don't feel like mini-adults.
    That may be convenient, it’s also not simulating life. Toddlers depend on you and when you have small children, there is little time for anything else. I love the toddlers in Sims 4 but them being so self-reliant for me is a downside. Why does everything in this game have to be so easy and why is easy confused with better?
    My perfect Sims game btw would have:
    • baby: covering the Sims 2 baby stage, becoming a Sims 2/3-toddler before they can walk (like it is in Freeplay)
    • toddler: a five year old that is a bit more self-reliant (but not completely)

    In a game where the characters dress themselves by whirling around I don't know how much "realism" this game really needs. One of the biggest complaints I saw about Sims 3 was how needy the toddlers were. (Although it led to some cute moments; I still remember when my teen Sim brought his girlfriend home after school and his toddler sibling was fussy after waking up from a nap; the girlfriend immediately went to the crib and picked up the toddler.) (And yeah, that pretty much settled for me that those two were getting married.) And Sims 4 toddlers start out pretty needy -- until they get one or two skill points they need someone to take them potty and to carry them down stairs. They can't talk until Level 3 communication. Yes, they can walk but not well when they're just starting out.

    I want to see family relationships expanded. If my Sim gets married, his/her spouse's mother should be recognized as "mother-in-law", or children in a blended family be step-siblings. If my Sim lives long enough to have great-grandchildren, that should be acknowledged. And more than just the family tree, but in the relationship panel as well.
    Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
    Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 24,101 Member
    Sindocat wrote: »
    What integral family togetherness play is there? This is an honest question. It feels like all the sims are roommates and not family members, as there is not many fun togetherness activities. There are MULTIPLE single sim activities. I only can assume that you are a millenial and don't get the concept of detailed family gameplay which I am looking to have. I am part of Gen X (entering my 4th decade IRL), right before millenials.

    The gameplay is currently boring for those of us who play long legacies. I have one family I currently play which is on generation 6 (this file is on long lifespan). The gameplay currently caters to the YA, party lifestyle, with only playing 1 to 2 sims. I always play with 4 to 6 sims because otherwise I get bored even faster.

    I am 51 this year. My sister's kids are Millenials. Please don't make assumptions about people you don't know, or sweeping generalizations about what various demographic groups are like.

    Volunteer As A Family is a rabbit-hole activity, but it does spawn chance cards for participants, builds Values for kids and teens, and is a group activity. My families do this to celebrate birthdays, weddings, and other significant milestones.

    Help with school projects is integral family play. I find my kids and teens tend to get school projects on the same day. Usually, I have the parents either split up, and one help each child, have everyone help the youngest first, or have the teen start alone, let the parents help the younger first, then join him to finish up. They gain social interaction all through this, since even if they aren't on the same project, they are in the same space.

    I routinely have a Sim "Call to Meal" everyone for a shared dinner. One kid - whoever needs the most work on Manners - will have set the table. My families seem to enjoy sitting down together, and converse without prompting.

    My kids autonomously play with each other. Adults and teens will spontaneously join a child playing with the dollhouse. Even when adults are pursuing their own activities, their kids seek them out. Maybe a Convivial Lot Trait is driving a lot of this, I don't know. But even without me steering them, my Sims families seem genuinely close.

    As I have said elsewhere, my main standard of comparison for family play is The Sims 3: Generations. I think Parenthood is at least as good at this, and in many respects actually better. Family play is the focus of my Simming, and I find it completely absorbing, heartwarming, and fun.

    My Sims frequently play Don't Wake The Llama together autonommousely if I place a game table in their house-- reminds me of playing games with my family when I was a kid. If one of my Sims is working in their home office, my Sim toddlers and kids will take their plate into the office and chat. When I have twin toddlers, they play together and babble or talk, building communication skills super fast. One of my favorite game moments was when my toddler woke up from a nightmare, but instead of waking the parents, she went to her big brother's room and he was able to comfort her and get her back to bed.
    Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
    Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 24,101 Member
    I mentioned this in another thread, but I think it bares repeating here. The lack of group/family interactions are sad, but the annoying thing is that there are so many small things they could add to make it better.

    Example: Toddlers can't do anything together except talk to each other, hug, and use a dollhouse (and even then, they're just playing by them self with another toddler just standing next to them). Wouldn't it be great if toddlers could actually able to grab some toys and play together, interact, look at each other, babble/talk to each other while playing? Show that they are acknowledging the other toddler's existence. Like in the kiddie pool, let the toddlers splash each other, and have the parents interact with the other toddler and their parent, not just the toddler they are holding. Currently it feels like the 2 groups don't even recognize that there is anyone else using the pool with them. The older life stages can splash each other in the water, so why can't toddlers in the kiddie pool? I get that some kids might act like they're in their own little world, but the option to splash their sibling or play together with pool toys would be nice.

    I'd like to see similar stuff for the ball pit and big toddler jungle gym. Show that the toddlers are playing with others. Give more little interactions that show that these two+ people are aware of the other's existence. And we need more than just a dollhouse in terms of toys for two children (which again, is lacking in portraying two kids playing with each other anyway). Let the toddlers (and kids) play with toy cars or stuffed animals on the floor together or something. Something else that would be nice, would be letting more than 2 kids/toddlers do this. It's sad having triplets when the dollhouse can only be used by 2 sims max, so one will always be left out. It would be great to let many kids play with these toys.

    Small things like that would add so much more to these interactions and make them actually feel closer.

    My toddlers totally babble/talk to each other when playing -- when I have twins they usually build Communication super fast. My child Sim talks to his little sister while they're eating. My husband Sim serenades his wife whenever they're in the same room together (and she serenades him). And all of this autonomously.
    Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
    Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,244 Member
    edited August 14
    @MidnightAura Thanks, I’d never try to play a family in this game without purchasing Parenthood first, it sounds like a necessity. I must say I consider that a flaw, like it’s a flaw that Sims 3 really needs Generations to enjoy a family. It’s a life simulation game and fleshed out family features should be basegame. I also think it doesn’t just come down to features only. Add tag, add gifting, add hugging. When people mention Sims 2 when they try to get across what they miss, I don’t think it’s about that. It’s how the sims react to their family overall I presume.
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Sims 4 follows every trend going- I don’t think that’s up for dispute.

    I agree family play is still missing a lot. It has improved but family relationships still feel empty in many ways. Sims 2 definitely had it better.

    It's definitely improved over the years. The Toddler patch in 2017 was a major step, and they might be the best toddlers in the Sims series. They do need some help but not so much that you feel like your Sim has no time for anything else, and as they develop they can do more things for themselves. And children can interact with them a lot more than in past games -- I had one family where the toddler woke up with a nightmare, and instead of waking her parents she woke her older brother who was able to comfort her and help her back to bed.

    Some of the DLC helps fill out the stages -- Kids' Room gives more activities for them (I really like the puppet theater for helping build Social skill as well as entertaining younger siblings), Seasons has Scouting which is technically a rabbit hole but you still have to actively go out and earn the badges by doing various activities. Even the much maligned MFPS has an interaction where children can study the caged rodent and that counts as the day's school homework. But more could be done; I've used Spa Day to get my elders into yoga and meditation, but we could use more hobbies to keep them active. Adults need more love and a way to distinguish them from YAs. And teens could use more content so they don't feel like mini-adults.
    That may be convenient, it’s also not simulating life. Toddlers depend on you and when you have small children, there is little time for anything else. I love the toddlers in Sims 4 but them being so self-reliant for me is a downside. Why does everything in this game have to be so easy and why is easy confused with better?
    My perfect Sims game btw would have:
    • baby: covering the Sims 2 baby stage, becoming a Sims 2/3-toddler before they can walk (like it is in Freeplay)
    • toddler: a five year old that is a bit more self-reliant (but not completely)

    In a game where the characters dress themselves by whirling around I don't know how much "realism" this game really needs. One of the biggest complaints I saw about Sims 3 was how needy the toddlers were. (Although it led to some cute moments; I still remember when my teen Sim brought his girlfriend home after school and his toddler sibling was fussy after waking up from a nap; the girlfriend immediately went to the crib and picked up the toddler.) (And yeah, that pretty much settled for me that those two were getting married.) And Sims 4 toddlers start out pretty needy -- until they get one or two skill points they need someone to take them potty and to carry them down stairs. They can't talk until Level 3 communication. Yes, they can walk but not well when they're just starting out.

    I want to see family relationships expanded. If my Sim gets married, his/her spouse's mother should be recognized as "mother-in-law", or children in a blended family be step-siblings. If my Sim lives long enough to have great-grandchildren, that should be acknowledged. And more than just the family tree, but in the relationship panel as well.
    I think there’s a difference between realism in dressing yourself and the characteristic of a particular life stage. I don’t need realism all the way in the game, but the life stages I do want to represent what people in those life stages are really about. I must add I’ve never understood the statement toddlers in Sims 3 are needy by the way and I’ve raised about 70 of them by now (and unlike what telemetry showed Rachel Franklin I really raised them, teaching them everything there is to teach, including reading books and things like that ;)). Of course my sims have to take care of them (but that’s what being a parent is about), but when they’re satisfied they’re quiet and friendly (I always make them play or read). Indeed, also teens can take care of them (lol, that’s cute she took care of the kid autonomously). For me their neediness adds charm to that particular life stage, because it reminds me of my own kids when they were that age and were very dependent. That’s also the reason why I immediately fell in love with Sims 4 toddlers by the way the minute I saw them in my game, recognition, in their case it’s the animations that are spot on.

    Agree with your second paragraph, that should matter. Like in Sims 3 I really miss how my sim won’t have some kind of extra recognition when she meets her dad or granddad. They treat them the way they treat any sim they’re friendly with. I’d love there to be a little extra (and I think Sims 2 had that?).
  • telemwilltelemwill Posts: 50 Member
    I bought the toddler pack this weekend, and my favorite interaction from it is the adults can help the toddler climb up the slide. It looks so cute!

    I've added some of the play equipment to my parks, so finally the whole family can enjoy an outing.
  • EA_RtasEA_Rtas Posts: 1,729 EA Moderator
    edited August 15
    Hey folks let's leave it out please with going into peoples post history and bringing up politics. I've cleared out some posts in here already so let's keep it to the topic at hand.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,253 Member
    ChadSims2 wrote: »
    My families swim, dance, read, paint, and travel together. They also play music together and make sand sculptures.
    So your families swim but dont interact together when they do so... your Sims dance in the same area but not together... they paint solo at their own easal next to each other... play music "together" but not really as they're all playing their own song... I guess I'll give you building sand castles with an entire 2 Sims since you cant have a group of 3-4 Sims do that together and they can travel together and do a lot of solo activities

    families do interact went swimming. They Splash each other and stuff like that. And parents can teach toddlers how to dance but the animation of child Sim dancing on his parents feet was better in Sims 2.

    It certainly has improved ever since Parenthood but it hasn't beaten its predecessors as of yet. @Cinebar They've only just scratched the surface so to speak.
    { Do I Hate The Sims? | Gallery: hestiah23 | Canon Sims by Hestia }

    qloWNbx.png
  • NorthDakotaGamerNorthDakotaGamer Posts: 1,646 Member
    Sims of all ages still act only as roommates. There is still no real "family connection" so to speak that is seen in past iterations. That is a major design flaw.
  • comicsforlifecomicsforlife Posts: 5,353 Member
    I would really like to see more done with families I mean we don't even have catch :'(
    the sims 4 isn't getting new whims right now and I think they have dropped them all together if we want new whims in sims 4 we need to tweet the gurus and tell them we like whims
  • RouenpucelleRouenpucelle Posts: 530 Member
    I want actions like "kiss on cheek" between family members to NOT be considered a romantic interaction. I keep almost accidentally having my Sim flirt with her dear father-in-law.
    Ooh Be Gah!! Whipna Choba-Dog? Whipna Choba-Dog!! :smiley:
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,253 Member
    @Rouenpucelle Mega cringe...
    { Do I Hate The Sims? | Gallery: hestiah23 | Canon Sims by Hestia }

    qloWNbx.png
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,253 Member
    off-top but:

    i posted a slightly negative remark about TS4 on a facebook group where im a part of and the whole group started crying. they told me that i was just seeking for attention for writing down stuffs if you know what i mean.

    /roastme

    @TheIntrovertSimmer Sounds similar to how soccer mom groups would react or conspiracy theorist cult groups. :D
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