So in essence no they don’t listen unless you are a teenage girl who’s not already a regular Sims player. Kind of obvious, with the constant cashing in on trendy things and novelties, but this is clarification nonetheless. Those of us who are considered “core players” are basically expected to just buy whatever, because the studio feels our money is guaranteed.
This attitude will (and has already) make “core” players jump ship. Losing that “core” market is bad for business.
I remember saying when 4 came out, that I didn't feel like they were targeting their existing base. A lot of people agreed with the sentiment. From the perspective of gamers, that's disappointing because you've grown attached to the game and you suddenly feel abandoned.
But, from a purely money making perspective (and EA is a business, and they want to make money), it is actually a good idea to move on. Companies who don't keep up with current trends tend to fall behind financially, and eventually go out of business. So, it makes sense to target the up- and- coming generation of money makers.
That said, I do wish they'd do more to keep their older, core players happy. I don't think they realize how much money they could make. A lot of people who started playing in the beginning are over 30, so we have more disposable income than their target demographic. I'm 40 and my oldest kid is an adult with his own job. I have more money and time than I've ever had before.
Even something as simple as a legacy pack- items directly copied over from the previous games, would thrill me. And I definitely think it would be worth their effort to update the older games and sell them on Origin again. I was one of the players who got UC for free automatically when they first released it because I had Sims 2 on Origin, and I'd still pay for it all over again if they updated it. And don't even get me started on Bustin' Out and Urbz. Man, there's a dream.
I started playing this game when I was 45. My daughter’s friends were always jealous of her, because she could play each and every pack released immediately because her mom would buy them on day 1. They all had to wait till they had saved enough money and they wouldn’t buy everything but just would choose the packs they really wanted. I, the middle aged addict, bought everything, even packs I didn’t really care for. When it said Sims 3 I bought it. I’d know who I’d want as my target group if I were a money making company.
I certainly think they're listening (because they clearly have over the last couple of years) but there are two problems:
They have their own agenda and their own ideas for this game, and that doesn't always correspond with what a lot of players want. Apparently it does correspond with what enough players want though, so there's no reason for them to change direction. Strangerville is a good example of this. So is MFP.
Some changes are simply not possible for the game. Like, I've noticed they have listened to complaints about the many loading screens and the neighborhoods being so tiny. There is a huge difference between the first worlds and the later ones. They are just not able to deliver everything open the way we were used to. I think they meet players' wishes as much as they can, but it must be possible and it must be doable.
YEEEESSSS!!! I think they are listening too but as @JoAnne65 said, they have their own agenda. So many times I am like ok I am seeing stuff people and even I have asked for. Then something like Strangerville comes out and I tilt my head to the side just like those crazy sims and say HUH?!?! or the alexia thing or the first person camera, etc. I don't doubt people enjoyed these items but they seem to come out of left field. People are pratically on their knees begging for Witches or University or a real tropical vacation. When I see crazy things come out of left field, it is very clear @JoAnne65 is right, they have their own agenda especially with this whole passion projects business.
It does seem like they are following a set path, which I guess makes sense from a planning perspective. Then, other things get thrown in as/if they find the time. I see in the patch notes they finally fixed the point gain bug for vampires that's been around since it came out 2 years ago.
It does seem like they are following a set path, which I guess makes sense from a planning perspective. Then, other things get thrown in as/if they find the time. I see in the patch notes they finally fixed the point gain bug for vampires that's been around since it came out 2 years ago.
I am pretty sure I remember that it only happen recently? I played Vampires when that pack launched and never had that issue.
How can they be listening when meetings are about how to gain a new player who has never played before. There are thousands of core fans in the corner screaming hey, we would like to see this or that, but meetings are about how do we get those teens on instagram and youtube? How can they be listening if it's not the CM's job to report back to developers what the base wants, as we were allowed/lead to believe, but how to make deals with other companies or individuals so they can attract teens on instagram and youtubers with some influence.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
It does seem like they are following a set path, which I guess makes sense from a planning perspective. Then, other things get thrown in as/if they find the time. I see in the patch notes they finally fixed the point gain bug for vampires that's been around since it came out 2 years ago.
I am pretty sure I remember that it only happen recently? I played Vampires when that pack launched and never had that issue.
I don't know for sure when it started or what it was related to, I have only owned the pack for maybe a month. I bought it, Dine Out, and City Living at the same time. When I noticed that it wasn't adding points anymore I googled it and the oldest entries I came across mentioning the bug were around 2 years old.
It does seem like they are following a set path, which I guess makes sense from a planning perspective. Then, other things get thrown in as/if they find the time. I see in the patch notes they finally fixed the point gain bug for vampires that's been around since it came out 2 years ago.
I am pretty sure I remember that it only happen recently? I played Vampires when that pack launched and never had that issue.
I don't know for sure when it started or what it was related to, I have only owned the pack for maybe a month. I bought it, Dine Out, and City Living at the same time. When I noticed that it wasn't adding points anymore I googled it and the oldest entries I came across mentioning the bug were around 2 years old.
Mmm perhaps it might have existed but wasn't a universal bug at that time, compared to the recent patches.
They do listen, and to prove that we need to look at what they've given us rather than what they haven't (yet.) They can't just snap their fingers and make everything appear at once. Development takes time.
Indeed, they’ve given us toddlers and swimming pools and terrain tools and ghosts and a family tree and plant sims (sort of) and dishwashers. Developing those features took a lot longer than before though, which may be why people are a bit startled in that respect. Nobody wants them to snap their fingers.
I haven't read everything but I'm posting to answer the title's question: Do they listen?
I think they do, but can only do so much with such a limited game engine and smaller dev team (the previous iterations had multiple dev teams which gave those iterations deeper and more detailed gameplay and content). I actually feel pretty bad for Grant since he's the lead developer on TS4, because he came from TS3. So imagine how he must feel having to work with the Olympus game engine, weak and limited as it is? And then the lay-offs and sending other devs to other departments. I think he's trying to make the best of a very bad situation.
I hope things get better for him and that he gets to work on TS5. But I can understand if he wants to do something else after this. It's been one long nightmare.
My personal experience says "Yes". I saw many TS3 and TS4 requests be fulfilled in The Sims 4.
For example, the Ownable Business request (2010) has been posted since The Sims 3 era but was fulfilled by EP01 Get To Work in 2015.
Now one of the problems is the time to develop it. For example, Toddler request in 2014 and patch released in 2017.
When you request for something you shouldn't expect to see it before 3-5 years or the next sequel.
My personal experience says "Yes". I saw many TS3 and TS4 requests be fulfilled in The Sims 4.
For example, the Ownable Business request (2010) has been posted since The Sims 3 era but was fulfilled by EP01 Get To Work in 2015.
Now one of the problems is the time to develop it. For example, Toddler request in 2014 and patch released in 2017.
When you request for something you shouldn't expect to see it before 3-5 years or the next sequel.
There is nothing to do, just be patient.
There was no plausible excuse whatsoever to make simmers wait for two and a half years for a life stage that the two predecessors had from the get go. Not even when you make a mental split. It was completely bananas people had to ‘request’ that in the first place. And that’s exactly where the frustration in this department comes from and the feeling ‘they aren’t listening’ (like I said before, I think they are, within their power and possibilities). The fact that it concerns too many things that are really strange to not have been included right away. This whole “hurray we are so grateful, terrain tools and the game is only four years old!!!!” oddity.
I think we all understand it takes time to develop things.
The problem is a lack of communication. They obviously heard some things that were easily gleaned from public forums, like adjustable windows and walls, and that people didn't play with toddlers much. But, they made no effort to interact with fans and get more information. Why don't people play with toddlers? What is wrong with features you don't use? Instead, they just eliminated them.
Then, after there was an uproar, they never even gave us even a general "Your feedback is important, and we are listening and continuing to develop features." They said nothing or talked about the Sims 4 engine. Then suddenly they dropped things on us with updates like they are presents. "Look what we gave you!" And while we are glad to get them, don't get me wrong there, it's hard not to feel perturbed that you had to wait in the first place. Because there is a strong feeling that if they'd just communicated with us in the first place, we wouldn't have had to, or that we would have at least understood the wait better.
A good surprise is always better than a cancellation or delay announcement.
As they said several times everything can be cancelled or delayed at any moment.
There is no gain to announce something which will disappoint people in particular when you know it's always overhyped by the speculations.
A good surprise is always better than a cancellation or delay announcement.
As they said several times everything can be cancelled or delayed at any moment.
There is no gain to announce something which will disappoint people in particular when you know it's always overhyped by the speculations.
I understand that, and my husband said the same thing. I don't want them to tell me the exact projects they are working on. I guess I'm just not making myself clear on exactly what I mean. I would just like to see some communication.
Indeed, they’ve given us toddlers and swimming pools and terrain tools and ghosts and a family tree and plant sims (sort of) and dishwashers. Developing those features took a lot longer than before though, which may be why people are a bit startled in that respect. Nobody wants them to snap their fingers.
In order for features to come at the same time as before, they'd have to follow the same exact roadmap for releases. They obviously don't want an exact repeat of the previous game's schedules/releases even if simmers want it that way. So some features will come earlier, some come later.
If nobody wants them to snap their fingers, then there shouldn't be any complaining about time. Just patience and waiting.
My personal experience says "Yes". I saw many TS3 and TS4 requests be fulfilled in The Sims 4.
For example, the Ownable Business request (2010) has been posted since The Sims 3 era but was fulfilled by EP01 Get To Work in 2015.
Now one of the problems is the time to develop it. For example, Toddler request in 2014 and patch released in 2017.
When you request for something you shouldn't expect to see it before 3-5 years or the next sequel.
There is nothing to do, just be patient.
There was no plausible excuse whatsoever to make simmers wait for two and a half years for a life stage that the two predecessors had from the get go. Not even when you make a mental split. It was completely bananas people had to ‘request’ that in the first place. And that’s exactly where the frustration in this department comes from and the feeling ‘they aren’t listening’ (like I said before, I think they are, within their power and possibilities). The fact that it concerns too many things that are really strange to not have been included right away. This whole “hurray we are so grateful, terrain tools and the game is only four years old!!!!” oddity.
No one had to request toddlers, toddlers were already coming so that's kind of a poor example. Most of us know by now that because they had to scrap the online features, the game wasn't ready at release and they simply didn't have time to make toddlers. As Graham said, they didn't want to shoehorn them in. So toddlers were held back in order to do them right. I'm glad they waitied. My only complaint was that they couldn't tell us that toddlers were coming.
As for other things, there will always be features from previous games that we don't have yet, or may never get. Even if this game continues for another 5 years.
My personal experience says "Yes". I saw many TS3 and TS4 requests be fulfilled in The Sims 4.
For example, the Ownable Business request (2010) has been posted since The Sims 3 era but was fulfilled by EP01 Get To Work in 2015.
Now one of the problems is the time to develop it. For example, Toddler request in 2014 and patch released in 2017.
When you request for something you shouldn't expect to see it before 3-5 years or the next sequel.
There is nothing to do, just be patient.
There was no plausible excuse whatsoever to make simmers wait for two and a half years for a life stage that the two predecessors had from the get go. Not even when you make a mental split. It was completely bananas people had to ‘request’ that in the first place. And that’s exactly where the frustration in this department comes from and the feeling ‘they aren’t listening’ (like I said before, I think they are, within their power and possibilities). The fact that it concerns too many things that are really strange to not have been included right away. This whole “hurray we are so grateful, terrain tools and the game is only four years old!!!!” oddity.
No one had to request toddlers, toddlers were already coming so that's kind of a poor example. Most of us know by now that because they had to scrap the online features, the game wasn't ready at release and they simply didn't have time to make toddlers. As Graham said, they didn't want to shoehorn them in. So toddlers were held back in order to do them right. I'm glad they waitied. My only complaint was that they couldn't tell us that toddlers were coming.
As for other things, there will always be features from previous games that we don't have yet, or may never get. Even if this game continues for another 5 years.
You clearly weren’t around in the pre toddler era. Nobody knew toddlers would be coming, it was a big surprise to anyone. So yeah, people did feel they had to request it, especially since it was officially stated no toddlers was a considered decision, based on telemetry. “You didn’t play them, it’s your own fault we took them out.” That was the, almost literal, message. There was a huge topic back then, counting hundreds and hundreds of pages, filled with people asking for them. So many people asked for them, that other people became tired of it and couldn’t even stand the word toddler anymore. So the term t-word was introduced. People requested toddlers all right, telemetry apparently lied. Or - more likely - was interpreted the wrong way.
Pools were planned, ghosts were planned, family tree was planned and I bet toddlers were planned too if enough people would ask. They were even in the coding. Who knows terrain tools were planned too. But fans didn’t know. They felt they had to beg for it and it created this strange atmosphere, where people are praising the creators now (I’ve even seen people declare they screamed and cried so I’m not in the least exaggerating) when they introduce features that were ‘just there’ in the past. And at the same time it leaves the community dissatisfied and suspicious. They are creating this atmosphere of hunger, lack. Then they deliver (sometimes half-baked, sometimes quite good). It’s a strategy and it’s working. That doesn’t mean we have to like it or be ok with it.
My personal experience says "Yes". I saw many TS3 and TS4 requests be fulfilled in The Sims 4.
For example, the Ownable Business request (2010) has been posted since The Sims 3 era but was fulfilled by EP01 Get To Work in 2015.
Now one of the problems is the time to develop it. For example, Toddler request in 2014 and patch released in 2017.
When you request for something you shouldn't expect to see it before 3-5 years or the next sequel.
There is nothing to do, just be patient.
There was no plausible excuse whatsoever to make simmers wait for two and a half years for a life stage that the two predecessors had from the get go. Not even when you make a mental split. It was completely bananas people had to ‘request’ that in the first place. And that’s exactly where the frustration in this department comes from and the feeling ‘they aren’t listening’ (like I said before, I think they are, within their power and possibilities). The fact that it concerns too many things that are really strange to not have been included right away. This whole “hurray we are so grateful, terrain tools and the game is only four years old!!!!” oddity.
No one had to request toddlers, toddlers were already coming so that's kind of a poor example. Most of us know by now that because they had to scrap the online features, the game wasn't ready at release and they simply didn't have time to make toddlers. As Graham said, they didn't want to shoehorn them in. So toddlers were held back in order to do them right. I'm glad they waitied. My only complaint was that they couldn't tell us that toddlers were coming.
As for other things, there will always be features from previous games that we don't have yet, or may never get. Even if this game continues for another 5 years.
You clearly weren’t around in the pre toddler era. Nobody knew toddlers would be coming, it was a big surprise to anyone. So yeah, people did feel they had to request it, especially since it was officially stated no toddlers was a considered decision, based on telemetry. “You didn’t play them, it’s your own fault we took them out.” That was the, almost literal, message. There was a huge topic back then, counting hundreds and hundreds of pages, filled with people asking for them. So many people asked for them, that other people became tired of it and couldn’t even stand the word toddler anymore. So the term t-word was introduced. People requested toddlers all right, telemetry apparently lied. Or - more likely - was interpreted the wrong way.
Pools were planned, ghosts were planned, family tree was planned and I bet toddlers were planned too if enough people would ask. They were even in the coding. Who knows terrain tools were planned too. But fans didn’t know. They felt they had to beg for it and it created this strange atmosphere, where people are praising the creators now (I’ve even seen people declare they screamed and cried so I’m not in the least exaggerating) when they introduce features that were ‘just there’ in the past. And at the same time it leaves the community dissatisfied and suspicious. They are creating this atmosphere of hunger, lack. Then they deliver. It’s a strategy and it’s working. That doesn’t mean we have to like it or be ok with it.
I've been around since the beginning of time. I'm not talking about how people felt, that's irrelevant. I'm talking about the fact that toddlers were already coming. Just because we weren't privy to that information, doesn't change anything. Of course none of us knew; that's not in dispute. EA simply couldn't tell us about them. So my point is, toddlers were already planned. It wasn't a situation where they wouldn't have come if not requested. And this was pretty much confirmed by a Guru at the time toddlers finally appeared. So you clearly weren't around when toddlers were released.
And here's what that official statement really meant (even though Rachel couldn't go into detail): They felt they had made the right decision at the time (to leave them out temporarily) because they didn't want to shoehorn them in. They honestly didn't believe it would cause as much backlash, since telemetry indicated otherwise. The 'You didn't play them so we took them out' mentality is what happens when simmers misinterpret statements and add the wrong assumptions. There's always a lot of that going on; simmers read something, take it the wrong way and then RUN with it. It would have been best if Rachel had kept quiet, since she couldn't explain further and it only made the situation worse.
I remember when all the backlash about toddlers started, SimGuruRyan even commented for us to "Read between the lines." Hinting that we would get them eventually. It was removed, though, since they weren't allowed to tell us anything.
My personal experience says "Yes". I saw many TS3 and TS4 requests be fulfilled in The Sims 4.
For example, the Ownable Business request (2010) has been posted since The Sims 3 era but was fulfilled by EP01 Get To Work in 2015.
Now one of the problems is the time to develop it. For example, Toddler request in 2014 and patch released in 2017.
When you request for something you shouldn't expect to see it before 3-5 years or the next sequel.
There is nothing to do, just be patient.
There was no plausible excuse whatsoever to make simmers wait for two and a half years for a life stage that the two predecessors had from the get go. Not even when you make a mental split. It was completely bananas people had to ‘request’ that in the first place. And that’s exactly where the frustration in this department comes from and the feeling ‘they aren’t listening’ (like I said before, I think they are, within their power and possibilities). The fact that it concerns too many things that are really strange to not have been included right away. This whole “hurray we are so grateful, terrain tools and the game is only four years old!!!!” oddity.
No one had to request toddlers, toddlers were already coming so that's kind of a poor example. Most of us know by now that because they had to scrap the online features, the game wasn't ready at release and they simply didn't have time to make toddlers. As Graham said, they didn't want to shoehorn them in. So toddlers were held back in order to do them right. I'm glad they waitied. My only complaint was that they couldn't tell us that toddlers were coming.
As for other things, there will always be features from previous games that we don't have yet, or may never get. Even if this game continues for another 5 years.
You clearly weren’t around in the pre toddler era. Nobody knew toddlers would be coming, it was a big surprise to anyone. So yeah, people did feel they had to request it, especially since it was officially stated no toddlers was a considered decision, based on telemetry. “You didn’t play them, it’s your own fault we took them out.” That was the, almost literal, message. There was a huge topic back then, counting hundreds and hundreds of pages, filled with people asking for them. So many people asked for them, that other people became tired of it and couldn’t even stand the word toddler anymore. So the term t-word was introduced. People requested toddlers all right, telemetry apparently lied. Or - more likely - was interpreted the wrong way.
Pools were planned, ghosts were planned, family tree was planned and I bet toddlers were planned too if enough people would ask. They were even in the coding. Who knows terrain tools were planned too. But fans didn’t know. They felt they had to beg for it and it created this strange atmosphere, where people are praising the creators now (I’ve even seen people declare they screamed and cried so I’m not in the least exaggerating) when they introduce features that were ‘just there’ in the past. And at the same time it leaves the community dissatisfied and suspicious. They are creating this atmosphere of hunger, lack. Then they deliver (sometimes half-baked, sometimes quite good). It’s a strategy and it’s working. That doesn’t mean we have to like it or be ok with it.
Your post for me is right on the money.
Omen by HP Intel®️ Core™️ i9- 12900K W/ RGB Liquid Cooler 32GB Nvidia RTX 3080 10Gb ASUS Ultra-Wide 34" Curved Monitor. Omen By HP Intel® Core™ i7-12800HX 32 GB Nvidia 3070 Ti 8 GB 17.3 Screen
Then they deliver (sometimes half-baked, sometimes quite good). It’s a strategy and it’s working. That doesn’t mean we have to like it or be ok with it.
When I see Anthem, "Live Service" seems to mean "Pay first you'll get a full game later".
Sure they work hard but the goal is no longer to release a full game at once, just pieces throughout the year.
It's not specific to The Sims Studio, it becomes the global strategy of EA : Game as service.
The goal is also to listen to the players in a shorter time, I mean instead of fulfilling the requests in the next game 5 years later, they do it on the current game a few of months or years later.
It's still too slow from the player's point of view but it's quicker for the developers.
I think it's very positive because they try to include more the community feedback in the development process.
In TS2 and TS3, they didn't listen to you. Just they did their job.
TS3 Store team did several requests but it's normal when you know all the money we spent for that content.
Now they listen to you without asking for more money.
My personal experience says "Yes". I saw many TS3 and TS4 requests be fulfilled in The Sims 4.
For example, the Ownable Business request (2010) has been posted since The Sims 3 era but was fulfilled by EP01 Get To Work in 2015.
Now one of the problems is the time to develop it. For example, Toddler request in 2014 and patch released in 2017.
When you request for something you shouldn't expect to see it before 3-5 years or the next sequel.
There is nothing to do, just be patient.
There was no plausible excuse whatsoever to make simmers wait for two and a half years for a life stage that the two predecessors had from the get go. Not even when you make a mental split. It was completely bananas people had to ‘request’ that in the first place. And that’s exactly where the frustration in this department comes from and the feeling ‘they aren’t listening’ (like I said before, I think they are, within their power and possibilities). The fact that it concerns too many things that are really strange to not have been included right away. This whole “hurray we are so grateful, terrain tools and the game is only four years old!!!!” oddity.
No one had to request toddlers, toddlers were already coming so that's kind of a poor example. Most of us know by now that because they had to scrap the online features, the game wasn't ready at release and they simply didn't have time to make toddlers. As Graham said, they didn't want to shoehorn them in. So toddlers were held back in order to do them right. I'm glad they waitied. My only complaint was that they couldn't tell us that toddlers were coming.
As for other things, there will always be features from previous games that we don't have yet, or may never get. Even if this game continues for another 5 years.
You clearly weren’t around in the pre toddler era. Nobody knew toddlers would be coming, it was a big surprise to anyone. So yeah, people did feel they had to request it, especially since it was officially stated no toddlers was a considered decision, based on telemetry. “You didn’t play them, it’s your own fault we took them out.” That was the, almost literal, message. There was a huge topic back then, counting hundreds and hundreds of pages, filled with people asking for them. So many people asked for them, that other people became tired of it and couldn’t even stand the word toddler anymore. So the term t-word was introduced. People requested toddlers all right, telemetry apparently lied. Or - more likely - was interpreted the wrong way.
Pools were planned, ghosts were planned, family tree was planned and I bet toddlers were planned too if enough people would ask. They were even in the coding. Who knows terrain tools were planned too. But fans didn’t know. They felt they had to beg for it and it created this strange atmosphere, where people are praising the creators now (I’ve even seen people declare they screamed and cried so I’m not in the least exaggerating) when they introduce features that were ‘just there’ in the past. And at the same time it leaves the community dissatisfied and suspicious. They are creating this atmosphere of hunger, lack. Then they deliver. It’s a strategy and it’s working. That doesn’t mean we have to like it or be ok with it.
I've been around since the beginning of time. I'm not talking about how people felt, that's irrelevant. I'm talking about the fact that toddlers were already coming. Just because we weren't privy to that information, doesn't change anything. Of course none of us knew; that's not in dispute. EA simply couldn't tell us about them. So my point is, toddlers were already planned. It wasn't a situation where they wouldn't have come if not requested. And this was pretty much confirmed by a Guru at the time toddlers finally appeared. So you clearly weren't around when toddlers were released.
And here's what that official statement really meant (even though Rachel couldn't go into detail): They felt they had made the right decision at the time (to leave them out temporarily) because they didn't want to shoehorn them in. They honestly didn't believe it would cause as much backlash, since telemetry indicated otherwise. The 'You didn't play them so we took them out' mentality is what happens when simmers misinterpret statements and add the wrong assumptions. There's always a lot of that going on; simmers read something, take it the wrong way and then RUN with it. It would have been best if Rachel had kept quiet, since she couldn't explain further and it only made the situation worse.
I remember when all the backlash about toddlers started, SimGuruRyan even commented for us to "Read between the lines." Hinting that we would get them eventually. It was removed, though, since they weren't allowed to tell us anything.
How people feel actually is the whole point here. “Do they really listen?” is the question. That question is asked to fellow simmers, ‘do you have a feeling they’re really listening’, not to the people who are creating the game. Of course they know everything and who knows they were planning to add toddlers from the get go. Like they clearly were planning to add for example pools because those appeared within a few months after release (even when they suggested digging holes in Sims 4’s surface was really really hard in those months). Toddlers? Like I said, they were in the coding, a simguru declared a year before release ‘all life stages would be in’, I think it’s safe to say the plan was they would be in and then they ran out of time. And after that the entire character of communication about this subject towards simmers was: toddlers are out because telemetry showed us you didn’t play them. To literally quote what you are referring to:
"You know, our fans ask for a lot of things! [laughs] And here’s the thing, we look at a lot of different factors. We look absolutely at things that are being said in public forums. We also have groups of fans coming in, but we also have telemetry to tell us what people are actually playing with and using.
So you’re satisfied that not having toddlers was the right choice?
That’s the decision that we made based on all of the information that we had at the time. So absolutely, I feel like it’s the best decision for the game to date. I’m not talking about future stuff. But I do think it’s important to know, that players play in very different ways. We see all kinds of different play styles and family players are very passionate, so are players that play other ways.
When you were around back then, you must know the outrage this interview caused among simmers. What does anyone care what they really said behind the scene, this is what the players were left with. Toddlers were out because people didn’t play them in the past, it was a considered decision. And the only way to turn it was start begging ‘on public forums’. And this is the beginning of this weird relationship where players are left with the feeling they have to plead for features that were just there in the past and this was the first step into creating an atmosphere where people cry and scream when EA puts something in the game that was a given in the past. As you can see the EA official is openly hinting here that it’s important people on public forums are discussing this, keep repeating their needs. Making people beg for stuff that was a given in the past actually is a strategy here and it worked. I was around all right when they introduced toddlers with a big bang. It actually made me reopen my game (as it did many other players).
I play my Sims 3 game, I close it, I open Twitter and I see people going over the moon (more than 2500 likes when I last looked) because they will get the opportunity to paint a basegame door black. I can assure you that feels quite alienating. And wouldn’t you agree this is exactly why people start slightly confused topics like this?
We want CASt, are they listening to that...?
- Yeah, they do, they add new colours to existing items, sometimes even for free! That... is not entirely what I meant.
- Ok, now you’re being a tiny bit ungrateful wouldn’t you say? They’re listening.
That’s what we’re dealing with. The player’s perspective does matter. It’s ALL that matters. And they’re not asking for the moon.
I remember when all the backlash about toddlers started, SimGuruRyan even commented for us to "Read between the lines." Hinting that we would get them eventually. It was removed, though, since they weren't allowed to tell us anything.
That there says it all. That there is the whole problem.
In TS2 and TS3, they didn't listen to you. Just they did their job.
TS3 Store team did several requests but it's normal when you know all the money we spent for that content.
Now they listen to you without asking for more money.
If I remember correctly rodents were part of Pets back in the day, I didn’t seperately pay for them. Nor did I pay for pools and toddlers and terrain tools and ghosts and family trees (you really think we should be glad those things came for free and if so why?). We’re not talking about content here (like retail or restaurants or farms), we’re talking about tools and life stages. They make you pay for content all right (and rightly so).
Comments
YEEEESSSS!!! I think they are listening too but as @JoAnne65 said, they have their own agenda. So many times I am like ok I am seeing stuff people and even I have asked for. Then something like Strangerville comes out and I tilt my head to the side just like those crazy sims and say HUH?!?! or the alexia thing or the first person camera, etc. I don't doubt people enjoyed these items but they seem to come out of left field. People are pratically on their knees begging for Witches or University or a real tropical vacation. When I see crazy things come out of left field, it is very clear @JoAnne65 is right, they have their own agenda especially with this whole passion projects business.
I am pretty sure I remember that it only happen recently? I played Vampires when that pack launched and never had that issue.
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/924539/features-that-needs-depth-and-ways-to-improve
I don't know for sure when it started or what it was related to, I have only owned the pack for maybe a month. I bought it, Dine Out, and City Living at the same time. When I noticed that it wasn't adding points anymore I googled it and the oldest entries I came across mentioning the bug were around 2 years old.
Mmm perhaps it might have existed but wasn't a universal bug at that time, compared to the recent patches.
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/924539/features-that-needs-depth-and-ways-to-improve
I think they do, but can only do so much with such a limited game engine and smaller dev team (the previous iterations had multiple dev teams which gave those iterations deeper and more detailed gameplay and content). I actually feel pretty bad for Grant since he's the lead developer on TS4, because he came from TS3. So imagine how he must feel having to work with the Olympus game engine, weak and limited as it is? And then the lay-offs and sending other devs to other departments. I think he's trying to make the best of a very bad situation.
I hope things get better for him and that he gets to work on TS5. But I can understand if he wants to do something else after this. It's been one long nightmare.
My personal experience says "Yes". I saw many TS3 and TS4 requests be fulfilled in The Sims 4.
For example, the Ownable Business request (2010) has been posted since The Sims 3 era but was fulfilled by EP01 Get To Work in 2015.
Now one of the problems is the time to develop it. For example, Toddler request in 2014 and patch released in 2017.
When you request for something you shouldn't expect to see it before 3-5 years or the next sequel.
There is nothing to do, just be patient.
The Sims 4 Ideas Corner
- 👕 [CAS] Male content | 💰 §1 Million Lifestyle | ♂️ Man lifestyle for The Sims | ♻️ Content from The Sims
- 🔨 [Build/Buy Mode] Ideas | 📱 Ideas from The Sims FreePlay | ✈️ Vacation : Gameplay update | 🥦 New meals
The Sims 4 General DiscussionWhat you want isn't what the millions of players want.
If you really want it maybe they will obey you if you bring at least 1,500,000 signatures (10% of the total of units sold).
The Sims 4 Ideas Corner
- 👕 [CAS] Male content | 💰 §1 Million Lifestyle | ♂️ Man lifestyle for The Sims | ♻️ Content from The Sims
- 🔨 [Build/Buy Mode] Ideas | 📱 Ideas from The Sims FreePlay | ✈️ Vacation : Gameplay update | 🥦 New meals
The Sims 4 General DiscussionThe problem is a lack of communication. They obviously heard some things that were easily gleaned from public forums, like adjustable windows and walls, and that people didn't play with toddlers much. But, they made no effort to interact with fans and get more information. Why don't people play with toddlers? What is wrong with features you don't use? Instead, they just eliminated them.
Then, after there was an uproar, they never even gave us even a general "Your feedback is important, and we are listening and continuing to develop features." They said nothing or talked about the Sims 4 engine. Then suddenly they dropped things on us with updates like they are presents. "Look what we gave you!" And while we are glad to get them, don't get me wrong there, it's hard not to feel perturbed that you had to wait in the first place. Because there is a strong feeling that if they'd just communicated with us in the first place, we wouldn't have had to, or that we would have at least understood the wait better.
A good surprise is always better than a cancellation or delay announcement.
As they said several times everything can be cancelled or delayed at any moment.
There is no gain to announce something which will disappoint people in particular when you know it's always overhyped by the speculations.
The Sims 4 Ideas Corner
- 👕 [CAS] Male content | 💰 §1 Million Lifestyle | ♂️ Man lifestyle for The Sims | ♻️ Content from The Sims
- 🔨 [Build/Buy Mode] Ideas | 📱 Ideas from The Sims FreePlay | ✈️ Vacation : Gameplay update | 🥦 New meals
The Sims 4 General DiscussionI understand that, and my husband said the same thing. I don't want them to tell me the exact projects they are working on. I guess I'm just not making myself clear on exactly what I mean. I would just like to see some communication.
In order for features to come at the same time as before, they'd have to follow the same exact roadmap for releases. They obviously don't want an exact repeat of the previous game's schedules/releases even if simmers want it that way. So some features will come earlier, some come later.
If nobody wants them to snap their fingers, then there shouldn't be any complaining about time. Just patience and waiting.
No one had to request toddlers, toddlers were already coming so that's kind of a poor example. Most of us know by now that because they had to scrap the online features, the game wasn't ready at release and they simply didn't have time to make toddlers. As Graham said, they didn't want to shoehorn them in. So toddlers were held back in order to do them right. I'm glad they waitied. My only complaint was that they couldn't tell us that toddlers were coming.
As for other things, there will always be features from previous games that we don't have yet, or may never get. Even if this game continues for another 5 years.
Pools were planned, ghosts were planned, family tree was planned and I bet toddlers were planned too if enough people would ask. They were even in the coding. Who knows terrain tools were planned too. But fans didn’t know. They felt they had to beg for it and it created this strange atmosphere, where people are praising the creators now (I’ve even seen people declare they screamed and cried so I’m not in the least exaggerating) when they introduce features that were ‘just there’ in the past. And at the same time it leaves the community dissatisfied and suspicious. They are creating this atmosphere of hunger, lack. Then they deliver (sometimes half-baked, sometimes quite good). It’s a strategy and it’s working. That doesn’t mean we have to like it or be ok with it.
I've been around since the beginning of time. I'm not talking about how people felt, that's irrelevant. I'm talking about the fact that toddlers were already coming. Just because we weren't privy to that information, doesn't change anything. Of course none of us knew; that's not in dispute. EA simply couldn't tell us about them. So my point is, toddlers were already planned. It wasn't a situation where they wouldn't have come if not requested. And this was pretty much confirmed by a Guru at the time toddlers finally appeared. So you clearly weren't around when toddlers were released.
And here's what that official statement really meant (even though Rachel couldn't go into detail): They felt they had made the right decision at the time (to leave them out temporarily) because they didn't want to shoehorn them in. They honestly didn't believe it would cause as much backlash, since telemetry indicated otherwise. The 'You didn't play them so we took them out' mentality is what happens when simmers misinterpret statements and add the wrong assumptions. There's always a lot of that going on; simmers read something, take it the wrong way and then RUN with it. It would have been best if Rachel had kept quiet, since she couldn't explain further and it only made the situation worse.
I remember when all the backlash about toddlers started, SimGuruRyan even commented for us to "Read between the lines." Hinting that we would get them eventually. It was removed, though, since they weren't allowed to tell us anything.
Your post for me is right on the money.
When I see Anthem, "Live Service" seems to mean "Pay first you'll get a full game later".
Sure they work hard but the goal is no longer to release a full game at once, just pieces throughout the year.
It's not specific to The Sims Studio, it becomes the global strategy of EA : Game as service.
The goal is also to listen to the players in a shorter time, I mean instead of fulfilling the requests in the next game 5 years later, they do it on the current game a few of months or years later.
It's still too slow from the player's point of view but it's quicker for the developers.
I think it's very positive because they try to include more the community feedback in the development process.
The Sims 4 Ideas Corner
- 👕 [CAS] Male content | 💰 §1 Million Lifestyle | ♂️ Man lifestyle for The Sims | ♻️ Content from The Sims
- 🔨 [Build/Buy Mode] Ideas | 📱 Ideas from The Sims FreePlay | ✈️ Vacation : Gameplay update | 🥦 New meals
The Sims 4 General DiscussionTS3 Store team did several requests but it's normal when you know all the money we spent for that content.
Now they listen to you without asking for more money.
The Sims 4 Ideas Corner
- 👕 [CAS] Male content | 💰 §1 Million Lifestyle | ♂️ Man lifestyle for The Sims | ♻️ Content from The Sims
- 🔨 [Build/Buy Mode] Ideas | 📱 Ideas from The Sims FreePlay | ✈️ Vacation : Gameplay update | 🥦 New meals
The Sims 4 General DiscussionWhen you were around back then, you must know the outrage this interview caused among simmers. What does anyone care what they really said behind the scene, this is what the players were left with. Toddlers were out because people didn’t play them in the past, it was a considered decision. And the only way to turn it was start begging ‘on public forums’. And this is the beginning of this weird relationship where players are left with the feeling they have to plead for features that were just there in the past and this was the first step into creating an atmosphere where people cry and scream when EA puts something in the game that was a given in the past. As you can see the EA official is openly hinting here that it’s important people on public forums are discussing this, keep repeating their needs. Making people beg for stuff that was a given in the past actually is a strategy here and it worked. I was around all right when they introduced toddlers with a big bang. It actually made me reopen my game (as it did many other players).
I play my Sims 3 game, I close it, I open Twitter and I see people going over the moon (more than 2500 likes when I last looked) because they will get the opportunity to paint a basegame door black. I can assure you that feels quite alienating. And wouldn’t you agree this is exactly why people start slightly confused topics like this?
We want CASt, are they listening to that...?
- Yeah, they do, they add new colours to existing items, sometimes even for free!
That... is not entirely what I meant.
- Ok, now you’re being a tiny bit ungrateful wouldn’t you say? They’re listening.
That’s what we’re dealing with. The player’s perspective does matter. It’s ALL that matters. And they’re not asking for the moon.
That there says it all. That there is the whole problem.
If I remember correctly rodents were part of Pets back in the day, I didn’t seperately pay for them. Nor did I pay for pools and toddlers and terrain tools and ghosts and family trees (you really think we should be glad those things came for free and if so why?). We’re not talking about content here (like retail or restaurants or farms), we’re talking about tools and life stages. They make you pay for content all right (and rightly so).
They must have, because they added toddlers after they couldn't give away the base.