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Traits are broken and we all need to admit it

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    EA_RtasEA_Rtas Posts: 2,875 EA Community Manager
    Just moved this to feedback :smile: carry on
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    MaglxisbackMaglxisback Posts: 250 Member
    edited March 2019
    I agree with everything said EA needs to do something about it
    Post edited by Maglxisback on
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    Bagoas77Bagoas77 Posts: 3,064 Member
    I thought that I was the only one who had issues with the traits. They're all so muddled together that they don't really do much... if anything. Every sim has the same superficial, one-dimensional personality.
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    XwantonXwanton Posts: 85 Member
    TS4 sims don't feel unique because of a mixture of weaker traits and the emotions system overwhelming everything. Playing TS3 again recently makes it stand out more. TS3 sims would have a variety of trait idles (not always the best, but it did make them feel more distinct) and would react differently to things. Whereas in TS4, everyone has the same reaction to everything. Unflirty sims shouldn't become flirty from watching Romance on the TV, but they do.

    The mood traits work differently too. Hot headed sims in TS3 would become angry instead of upset when their mood is low. Hot headed sims in TS4 just become angry completely randomly, and for a while they would just autonomously start choosing mean interactions with anyone and everyone, even friends and family. Since when did hot headed mean being nasty to your loved ones for no reason?

    I'm not surprised more TS4 traits didn't make them more distinctive, because they're not distinctive now, and that's because TS4's traits are so poor.
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    ListentoToppDoggListentoToppDogg Posts: 2,103 Member
    Yeah, the traits are trash. They don't do anything other than add certain moodlets and whims. We need traits that actually do something to make the sims feel unique.
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    friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 7,546 Member
    i fully disagree i clearly do not find anything broken in the trait system they are working perfectly find thats what i see as a player
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    annaliese39annaliese39 Posts: 2,797 Member
    edited March 2019
    I'm somewhere in the middle here? I agree many of the traits could be improved and made to be more distinct, as well as have more of an impact on gameplay. As we only have 3 traits per sim, it also means I tend not to use certain traits as often since they don't add much and feel more like preferences e.g. Vegetarian, Cat Lover etc. I like to give my sims flaws or mixed traits, but I always feel this should be an option, rather than forced on players - Sims for me is always meant to be our own story to create as we envision. I also really want a fear emotion to be added and other traits like anxious, brave, eccentric etc. to really give sims more depth and diversity. However, I don't feel my own sims are just all the same. I find some trait combinations really fun and feel my favourite sims do behave differently and in ways that I find 'in character' for them. It could be just my imagination and sentiment impacting my perspective though.
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    drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,115 Member
    i fully disagree i clearly do not find anything broken in the trait system they are working perfectly find thats what i see as a player

    They do what they were designed to do, but compared to Sims 3 they do not do very much and Sims do not have distinctive personalities from them.

    Always room for improvement, even if you are ok with the current setup. Will those improvements happen, probably not, but it’s still good to get everyone’s feelings on it out there so they can do better next time.
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    Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited March 2019
    Been saying that for 4 years now.
    mHdgPlU.jpg?1
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    Mariefoxprice83Mariefoxprice83 Posts: 8,109 Member
    Sometimes I wish the traits had a stronger effect but I'm honestly more concerned about bugs being fixed. I like the idea of sims having to take a negative trait though. That was one of my favourite things about The Sims Medieval - sims had to take flaws.
    Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.
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    SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 4,845 Member
    edited March 2019
    Well I do think it a bit bizarre that so many people want Sims to be forced to have a negative traits. I mean the option is there so if you want your Sims to have a negative trait just give them one? Why do you want to force it upon people who don't want the style of gameplay when it's not even a multiplayer game? That being said, I've decided I'm not too worried about it haha! I really don't think it's something that they would add into the main game now at this point. I think it would be something more they added to Sims 5 which I don't really plan on getting because Sims 4 is such a great game on its own. It's definitely my favorite so far.

    And even if they did eventually added to Sims 4 for some reason, I think there would be ways around it. If it was only one person per household post said, I just create a person to specifically move out after. Or if it had to be one per person I guess I just get them all the jealous trait since I never give them a reason to be jealous hahaha! My Sims never leave their house except to go on family vacations together and I'm careful not to let anyone flirt with anyone else other than their spouse. All it would do is make the game slightly more boring because having that useless trait it would make it so my Sims can have even one less other trait that I'd want them to have. Like now maybe they can't be a book lover because they are already a cat lover and neat. So yeah basically it would just limit Sims personalities even more because you couldn't choose the combination you want, but it would be doable.

    The only game I do play right now where I give Sims negative traits, is my hundred baby challenge where they have to have randomize traits. I've had two of the kids end up with the evil traits and it makes the game a lot less fun. You see them beating up on the smaller kids stuffed animals a lot and when their siblings are in the mourning they become happy. I still love doing the hundred baby challenge, because I love to play with large families, but it's just one more boring time management step trying to stop them from these actions all the time.

    I do agree we should be able to pick up to five traits instead of three. If that came with having to pick on negative trait, then I would take that back. I would prefer to have less traits and have them the way they are then to have to do that but oh, if it happens it happens.
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    filipomelfilipomel Posts: 1,693 Member
    i fully disagree i clearly do not find anything broken in the trait system they are working perfectly find thats what i see as a player

    They do what they were designed to do, but compared to Sims 3 they do not do very much and Sims do not have distinctive personalities from them.

    Always room for improvement, even if you are ok with the current setup. Will those improvements happen, probably not, but it’s still good to get everyone’s feelings on it out there so they can do better next time.

    I actually don't see how the trait system from Sims 3 is any better, the only thing I tend to notice more in Sims 3 than Sims 4 is that the traits have a lot more idle animations, which does go far in terms of how they appear, something Sims 4 could most definitely improve on, and they have been, at least when it comes to recent trait releases.
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    Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited March 2019
    i fully disagree i clearly do not find anything broken in the trait system they are working perfectly find thats what i see as a player

    Yes they work fine.

    They are dependant on emotions to give sims personalities. And while that could work a little, the moodlets they give off have a value of +1. That's a total sham as the decor moodlet totally overrides them.

    TS4 is as follows in regards to personalities:

    emotions -> personalities [void] interactions -> relationships

    It should be:

    personalities -> interactions -> emotions -> relashionships

    I don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes of the game, but that's what's currently happening. Currently, the traits give moodlets that (supposedly) impact personalities. It should be that sims have personalities that impact interactions which then trigger emotions and influence relationships. The emotions should further unlock interactions sims can do.

    Here's an example:

    The hot headed trait.

    This trait gives a +1 angry moodlet. Does it work? Yes. Do hot headed sims get angry? No, because other happy moodlets go over the +1 value.

    These sims are meant to get angry when another sims do any mischief interactions on them does it work? Yes. Do they get angry in the end? No because the moodlet is once again overwritten. Do they get negative relationship points from mischief interactions on them? No. Do the relationships suffer? No.

    The hot headed trait should work like so:

    Because these sims are hot headed, they should get negative relationship points when other sims do mischief interactions with them, as if they were mean interactions, which leads to the angry emotion. Not the other way around.


    Interactions in this game are coded to fail based on emotion not on traits and that becomes a problem when the sims that are meant to have "signature emotions" (let's say) don't have them. Unlike in previous games, relationship status or value also doesn't totally affect sim's interactions. A sim with a low relashionhip can be hugged and they'll like it that wouldn't happen in previous games. In TS2 some interactions would appear ahead of time and as players we were suppose to know if sims had the right level of friendship or not. Same with mischief. In previous games risky interactions would have risky consequences and yes mood had a lot to say about it, but so did traits and personalities.

    Serious sims in TS2 hated being pranked upon no matter what. And you had to have a pretty good relationship with them to play any sort of game with them, like the throwing a football interaction.

    But I don't believe they have any plans to alter this or add better traits. Paranoid which was added recently is another miss fire.
    Post edited by Sigzy05 on
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    HejixHejix Posts: 1,056 Member
    Yes, free will is pointless now. We need to roleplay sims' traits now. ;(
    I want to play ALL the premade families! One day...
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    izecsonizecson Posts: 2,875 Member
    edited March 2019
    Most of the trait also doesn't really change much of the gameplay whether you're a sim or vampire, for example Glutton vampsim should've always crave to feed on other autonomously but instead they keep going to a fridge to grab food and ended up throwing it up because of their weakness, also a vegetarian sim dont care whether they feed on other sim or plasma fruit, make this trait totally pointless to vampsim. other than that, the only traits that really change the gameplay are glutton, slob, active(somewhat) and jealous(it's just a moodlet play, but i guess I'll include this one too) only.
    ihavemultiplegamertags
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    ListentoToppDoggListentoToppDogg Posts: 2,103 Member
    Oh yeah, forgot to mention earlier, but we really need more opposing traits. Like we have "hates children" to oppose "family oriented" and "neat" to oppose "slob", and a few others, but I'd like to see more, especially more to express what Sims do not like. Like, C&D gave us "loves cats/dogs", but no "hates cats/dogs" or "hates animals" in general. And we have a "hates children" for adults, but there is no "hates adults" for kids. And we've got art lover and music lover, but no trait to dislike either other these things. With Seasons we got special traits to ignore the effects of the weather, but no basic "hates cold weather", "hates rain", hates heat".

    And these are such simple things too, so it's weird to me that we don't have them. Then again, I never played the previous games, so maybe this isn't even new or surprising. I personally find it odd tho.
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    TriplisTriplis Posts: 3,048 Member
    I remember at some point, I was saying the traits should be expanded to allow us to have up to 5, or something like that. I don't remember what the arguments were, but I remember some people making convincing arguments as to why that wouldn't help.

    Given my experience with the teen and child traits that I made, along with what I've observed in playing with toddlers, I'm almost inclined to say that when it comes to actual behavior, a sim having a single, distinctive trait (distinctive meaning its behavior is significant enough in autonomy) gives better results than having 3. I think what Grant mentions in the tweet about wanting to find a way to provide the option to do 1-5 would be the ideal (assuming I'm interpreting correctly), since some people may want combinations that focus on behavior, while others may just want to RP certain types of characters (and it's currently impossible to be, for example, a Music Lover, Bookworm, Loner, and Dance Machine, or whatever other combination you can think of that is perfectly reasonable and normal in RL).

    Part of the problem seems to be that because YA and up has 3, it doesn't make sense to make the behavior of each too strong, or they will just fight with each other. So instead we end up with a sort of milquetoast, traits aren't-very-noticeable morass of behavior.

    I'm inclined to think that what would work best in terms of behavior is if the player could choose only 1 and there were some options that are very extreme and detailed in how sharply they impact the personality of the sim. Sort of like the setup for toddlers.

    But then, part of the problem always seems to come back to autonomy and the pool of available actions in general. For example, sims obsessing over using computer and TV for fun if one exists, which may actually be kind of reflective of modern life lol... but can make for a very dry and repetitive game. Or sims obsessing over friendly socials in conversation, which again, might be pretty reflective of a modern society with a lot of politeness, but can make for a very dry and repetitive game.

    If there's one thing every story has, it's conflict and the autonomy doesn't tend to facilitate much of that in my experience.

    Also, an aside on Strangerville in relation to this:
    I think this is part of the reason why Strangerville feels refreshing for many. It adds in new behavior, like the goofy walkstyles and possessed appearance, that can change a sim significantly, to where it actually feels like you're interacting with something different for once. Not just another sim with a few minor tweaks in personality on top that are barely noticeable. I think the highest fame sims from Get Famous adds a similar level of "distinct", though they still fall prey to the samey feeling if you get past introducing yourself to them.
    Mods moved from MTS, now hosted at: https://triplis.github.io
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    LeGardePourpreLeGardePourpre Posts: 15,233 Member
    edited March 2019
    Actually I'm focused on a Profile system based on 1 main trait and 2 minor traits.

    The main traits are :
    (Trait, Aspiration (Aspiration Bonus Trait, Aspiration Reward Traits), Child Aspiration Reward Trait, Satisfaction Reward Traits, Character Value Traits, Skills)
    • Active : Athletic (High Metabolism) + Physically Gifted + Gym Rat + Mediator + Fitness lvl 10
    • Romantic : Love (Alluring + Player) + Great Kisser + Beguiling + Charisma lvl 10
    • Foodie : Food (Essence of Flavor + Fresh Chef) + Stoves and Grill Master + Cooking lvl 10
    • Bro : Popularity (Gregarious + Beloved) + Socially Gifted + Connections + Always Welcome + Incredibly Friendly + Compassionate + Charisma lvl 10
    • Evil : Deviance (Dastardly + Mastermind + Tormentor) + Argumentative + Mischief lvl 10
    • Genius : Knowledge (Quick Leaner + Handy) + Mentally Gifted + Savant + Handiness lvl 10

    For example the minor traits are :
    • Goofball + Hilarious
    • Geek + Webmaster
    • Loves Outdoor + Survivalist + Angler's Tranquility
    • Family-Oriented
    • Slob + Glutton + Bad Manners

    The other traits are optional.
    Post edited by LeGardePourpre on
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    WulfsimmerWulfsimmer Posts: 4,381 Member
    Well I do think it a bit bizarre that so many people want Sims to be forced to have a negative traits. I mean the option is there so if you want your Sims to have a negative trait just give them one? Why do you want to force it upon people who don't want the style of gameplay when it's not even a multiplayer game? That being said, I've decided I'm not too worried about it haha! I really don't think it's something that they would add into the main game now at this point. I think it would be something more they added to Sims 5 which I don't really plan on getting because Sims 4 is such a great game on its own. It's definitely my favorite so far.

    And even if they did eventually added to Sims 4 for some reason, I think there would be ways around it. If it was only one person per household post said, I just create a person to specifically move out after. Or if it had to be one per person I guess I just get them all the jealous trait since I never give them a reason to be jealous hahaha! My Sims never leave their house except to go on family vacations together and I'm careful not to let anyone flirt with anyone else other than their spouse. All it would do is make the game slightly more boring because having that useless trait it would make it so my Sims can have even one less other trait that I'd want them to have. Like now maybe they can't be a book lover because they are already a cat lover and neat. So yeah basically it would just limit Sims personalities even more because you couldn't choose the combination you want, but it would be doable.

    The only game I do play right now where I give Sims negative traits, is my hundred baby challenge where they have to have randomize traits. I've had two of the kids end up with the evil traits and it makes the game a lot less fun. You see them beating up on the smaller kids stuffed animals a lot and when their siblings are in the mourning they become happy. I still love doing the hundred baby challenge, because I love to play with large families, but it's just one more boring time management step trying to stop them from these actions all the time.

    I do agree we should be able to pick up to five traits instead of three. If that came with having to pick on negative trait, then I would take that back. I would prefer to have less traits and have them the way they are then to have to do that but oh, if it happens it happens.

    It was just a request from me. It definitely doesn't mean that they still shouldn't improve the terrible traits system. A section of a thread that you disagree with doesn't equate to a completely redundant thread xD
    Random-gifs-random-18723411-368-312.gif

    WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY?
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    Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited March 2019
    Actually I'm focused on a Profile system based on 1 main trait and 2 minor traits.

    The main traits are :
    (Trait, Aspiration (Aspiration Bonus Trait, Aspiration Reward Traits), Child Aspiration Reward Trait, Satisfaction Reward Traits, Character Value Traits, Skills)
    • Active : Athletic (High Metabolism) + Physically Gifted + Gym Rat + Mediator + Fitness lvl 10
    • Romantic : Love (Alluring + Player) + Great Kisser + Beguiling + Charisma lvl 10
    • Foodie : Food (Essence of Flavor + Fresh Chef) + Stoves and Grill Master + Cooking lvl 10
    • Bro : Popularity (Gregarious + Beloved) + Socially Gifted + Connections + Always Welcome + Incredibly Friendly + Compassionate + Charisma lvl 10
    • Evil : Deviance (Dastardly + Mastermind + Tormentor) + Argumentative + Mischief lvl 10
    • Genius : Knowledge (Quick Leaner + Handy) + Mentally Gifted + Savant + Handiness lvl 10

    For example the minor traits are :
    • Goofball + Hilarious
    • Geek + Webmaster
    • Loves Outdoor + Survivalist + Angler's Tranquility
    • Family-Oriented
    • Slob + Glutton + Bad Manners

    The other traits are optional.

    I understand what you are doing but that shouldn't be the goal. Plus a lot of those reward traits are not meant as personality definers. Often they just add an extra buff or interaction which I don't even think those are tagged as autonumous for sims with those traits.

    But you shouldn't have to grind to give sims personalities, that doesn't make any sense. It should be right when first stepping into the world after CAS that sims should be considerably different when playing them otherwise what is the point of traits other than little reward things? I like what the character values tried to introduce but once again it's something based off of the trait system and it's not something that we can separately define in CAS for the YA/AD/Elder sims.

    I mean, in the end, I guess they are all traits but it's how they work what matters. Even favourites are traits.
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    RememberJoyRememberJoy Posts: 1,139 Member
    edited March 2019
    It would be awesome if instead of choosing three traits from four categories we instead got to choose one or two personality flavors from multiple categories. For example:

    Hobbies - pick one or maybe two hobbies that sim would enjoy more than others and perhaps a hobby they can't stand as well. Hobby choices should include everything from running to reading, playing chess to gardening (updated with each pack as well).

    Likes/Dislikes - choose one thing your sim particularly likes or dislikes. Things like cats, dogs, outdoors, meat, etc. Interacting with a liked thing would give the sim a boost of some kind, and interacting with a dislike would do the opposite.

    Fears - select a something your sim is particularly afraid of. Could include water, fire, storms, etc. Interacting with a feared item would result in a more extreme reaction. To make it more interesting maybe include the possibility of receiving a phobia from in game play (and maybe overcoming it as well). For instance, if a sim catches on fire they are then afraid of fire, if they almost drown they now fear water.

    Social - this would influence how your sim interacts with others. Include things like self-centered, shy, outgoing, mean, etc. A mean sim would lead with mean interactions and would have a harder time gaining relationships, a shy sim would be less likely to approach other sims and would get embarrassed more easily. Should each unlock unique social interactions.

    Emotional - these would boost and suppress the different emotions. Would include playful, serious, gloomy, cheerful, etc. Should have a boost and suppress trait for each emotion. These should give your sim a unique idle action so that they behave differently. Gloomy sims would sag and sigh, playful sims would do a happy dance, serious sims would fold their arms and slightly frown.

    Lifestyle - these can be traits that affect how your sim lives their life. Include lazy, active, slob, neat, proper, rebellious etc. Should unlock unique interactions with people and objects. A proper sim can lecture sims who are mean, a neat sim can can go on a cleaning spree, a lazy sim can take a nap on the ground.

    Skills - this is something your sim is naturally talented in. Could include charismatic, logical, fit, funny, green thumb, handy, etc. This one skill will be more easily learned by your sim. Could also choose a skill that your sim has a hard time learning.

    So with all these choices you could end up with a sim who is:

    Shy around others, serious, and neat. They are naturally handy, enjoy running, and dislike gardening. They like dogs, don't like meat, and are afraid of storms.

    Or you could have a sim who is:

    Naturally a good cook but who dislikes cooking, likes camping but is afraid of fire.

    Could open up some interesting story lines.

    Post edited by RememberJoy on
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    SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 4,845 Member
    Wulfsimmer wrote: »

    It was just a request from me. It definitely doesn't mean that they still shouldn't improve the terrible traits system. A section of a thread that you disagree with doesn't equate to a completely redundant thread xD

    Agreed. But I had already responded to the other part of this thread and said that I agree with you on it and didn't have anything new to add to that part of the thread topic. This comment was more in response to some other people that commented here after I had already responded to the original posts.
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    SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 4,845 Member
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    i fully disagree i clearly do not find anything broken in the trait system they are working perfectly find thats what i see as a player

    Yes they work fine.

    They are dependant on emotions to give sims personalities. And while that could work a little, the moodlets they give off have a value of +1. That's a total sham as the decor moodlet totally overrides them.

    TS4 is as follows in regards to personalities:

    emotions -> personalities [void] interactions -> relationships

    It should be:

    personalities -> interactions -> emotions -> relashionships

    I don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes of the game, but that's what's currently happening. Currently, the traits give moodlets that (supposedly) impact personalities. It should be that sims have personalities that impact interactions which then trigger emotions and influence relationships. The emotions should further unlock interactions sims can do.

    Here's an example:

    The hot headed trait.

    This trait gives a +1 angry moodlet. Does it work? Yes. Do hot headed sims get angry? No, because other happy moodlets go over the +1 value.

    These sims are meant to get angry when another sims do any mischief interactions on them does it work? Yes. Do they get angry in the end? No because the moodlet is once again overwritten. Do they get negative relationship points from mischief interactions on them? No. Do the relationships suffer? No.

    The hot headed trait should work like so:

    Because these sims are hot headed, they should get negative relationship points when other sims do mischief interactions with them, as if they were mean interactions, which leads to the angry emotion. Not the other way around.


    Interactions in this game are coded to fail based on emotion not on traits and that becomes a problem when the sims that are meant to have "signature emotions" (let's say) don't have them. Unlike in previous games, relationship status or value also doesn't totally affect sim's interactions. A sim with a low relashionhip can be hugged and they'll like it that wouldn't happen in previous games. In TS2 some interactions would appear ahead of time and as players we were suppose to know if sims had the right level of friendship or not. Same with mischief. In previous games risky interactions would have risky consequences and yes mood had a lot to say about it, but so did traits and personalities.

    This is exactly how I would like to see it :-)
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    SiliCloneSiliClone Posts: 2,585 Member
    I have the mod meaningful stories and my sims don't act all the same. The real problem, in my opinion, is the emotion system per se. It's too easy to overpower emotions.
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    LeGardePourpreLeGardePourpre Posts: 15,233 Member
    edited March 2019
    Sure, the current Trait system was designed in 2014 (and earlier) but it's outdated today.

    This game is a "live service" then we could expect a big Trait update.
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