@AceOfKnaves one of the gurus has stated that you can change all the households and lots (with the exception of the 'special' lot that i'm pretty sure is like the temple in jungle adventures and the studio lot in get famous in the inability to change it, since it changes itself) without affecting the story to any real degree
he'd also said they had put little story aspects in some of the existing households and existing lots in the game, but they're more flavor than anything and you can go through the whole story of the world without ever seeing, or needing to see, them
that said, it seems having a bar and a library in the world will help the story move along since there's mention of asking military personnel at the former and scientists at the latter about some of the goings-on when you start investigating the story. (i'm planning on having heavily modified versions of those two lots in my game once i finish the story for the first time. want to keep everything as is for the first playthrough just to see all the little bonus bits they'd put into the lots and households. and possibly see if i can or want to replicate them in the new versions)
For me, these quest focused packs, make it feel like it's ME playing the game instead of me playing THROUGH my sims. That's the huge difference of playing a video game vs a life simulation.
One of our goals with this pack was to get the story to feel like it was part of the simulation and not some weird thing we shoehorned in. I'm sure the judgement of how well we accomplished this will vary from person to person, so I'm eager to get peoples' feedback.
I think I know what you mean about feeling like it's YOU playing the game instead of playing THROUGH your Sims, but if you could elaborate on it, I'd appreciate it. What types of things really make you feel like you're playing through your Sims in a life simulation versus playing a game as a player? No worries if you don't want to respond, I don't want to put you on the spot.
@SimGuruHouts LOL are you serious? This stuff is basic knowledge for a Sims dev. I'm not trying to be mean, but the sims were initially about simulation and sandbox tools that let the player make their own stories. There already are hundreds of linear story telling games where you solve 'mysteries' - once and done. The sims was always about the creativity of the players and creating worlds and events within the limits of the sandbox. If you shrink the sandbox and limit the tools, then you get less and less creativity and less and less immersion to the point where you might aswell play another game that does storytelling better. The sims just need a strong foundation of depth of AI and interface with the game, and tools to create worlds and stories, and you're good to go. The 'extra' flashiness can be added if you still have stuff to do after all that. The core of the game is not 'go here do this', it's 'do this or this or this or this 20 different ways, or not'. I'm baffled with this question. I get that you're trying to engage and understand, but having a linear 'story' is not a simulation. If you had 20 different version of the story, or if aspects of it, or the entire thing, was customizable, then that would be a simulation. Again I respect your hard work, but I'm flabbergasted at this question/reply.
I disagree as the thing I've been missing most about Sims 1 and 2 are all the stories that made the game what it was and what has been missing for so long with Sims 3 and 4. Don't get me wrong - I love Sims 3 - but it was very different than Sims 1 or 2. Sims 2 over all was the best life simulation and all the many stories of all the towns people is what made it so interesting and fun. You could go through their memories and the memories of people in the other memories and follow their who life story - then finally pick it up and continue it during the present or go in a total different direction. I had goals to continue the stories and fix the feud (Capps and Monty's for one) and it was all doable because we had their stories right there in the game to fix or do what ever with. The sims were very much story Oriented - like the story of what happened to Bella Goth - well I hunted it all down and solved it and brought her back. That was only possible because the whole story is there and can be made right if you were so inclined - but if that was nt your thing then you ignored that part of the game. I never ignored anything though and I very much love the option of having the choice and story there if I so desired to go that route. That option is back in this new pack - but I can't help but wish all the packs and sims also had their stories in the game too - just like the game was designed. It had many ways to play there if you so desired to follow them.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I'm excited by this. I hope this isn't a trend. I don't want Sims to be a mystery game. But I'm looking forward to something a little different, and I'm certain I'll replay the military career.
I know some of you guys are disappointed. That's fair. Sometimes pkgs are either...ridiculous to me (A laundry pack. Really) Or seem great but are actually very draining to play (Pets) but I appreciate the work the devs do. The way some posters speak to the devs who post on here is astonishing. The height of rudeness.
For me, these quest focused packs, make it feel like it's ME playing the game instead of me playing THROUGH my sims. That's the huge difference of playing a video game vs a life simulation.
One of our goals with this pack was to get the story to feel like it was part of the simulation and not some weird thing we shoehorned in. I'm sure the judgement of how well we accomplished this will vary from person to person, so I'm eager to get peoples' feedback.
I think I know what you mean about feeling like it's YOU playing the game instead of playing THROUGH your Sims, but if you could elaborate on it, I'd appreciate it. What types of things really make you feel like you're playing through your Sims in a life simulation versus playing a game as a player? No worries if you don't want to respond, I don't want to put you on the spot.
@SimGuruHouts LOL are you serious? This stuff is basic knowledge for a Sims dev. I'm not trying to be mean, but the sims were initially about simulation and sandbox tools that let the player make their own stories. There already are hundreds of linear story telling games where you solve 'mysteries' - once and done. The sims was always about the creativity of the players and creating worlds and events within the limits of the sandbox. If you shrink the sandbox and limit the tools, then you get less and less creativity and less and less immersion to the point where you might aswell play another game that does storytelling better. The sims just need a strong foundation of depth of AI and interface with the game, and tools to create worlds and stories, and you're good to go. The 'extra' flashiness can be added if you still have stuff to do after all that. The core of the game is not 'go here do this', it's 'do this or this or this or this 20 different ways, or not'. I'm baffled with this question. I get that you're trying to engage and understand, but having a linear 'story' is not a simulation. If you had 20 different version of the story, or if aspects of it, or the entire thing, was customizable, then that would be a simulation. Again I respect your hard work, but I'm flabbergasted at this question/reply.
I disagree as the thing I've been missing most about Sims 1 and 2 are all the stories that made the game what it was and what has been missing for so long with Sims 3 and 4.
See, I don't think I ever noticed there were "stories" in Sims 1 and 2. But I stopped playing Sims 2 before the story packs came out, I guess.
Same as with Sims 3, I was uninterested enough by the "Magic" pack to regret buying it and never got back into playing it. Basically for both 2 and 3 the Magic Pack was such a turnoff I stopped playing.
For me, these quest focused packs, make it feel like it's ME playing the game instead of me playing THROUGH my sims. That's the huge difference of playing a video game vs a life simulation.
One of our goals with this pack was to get the story to feel like it was part of the simulation and not some weird thing we shoehorned in. I'm sure the judgement of how well we accomplished this will vary from person to person, so I'm eager to get peoples' feedback.
I think I know what you mean about feeling like it's YOU playing the game instead of playing THROUGH your Sims, but if you could elaborate on it, I'd appreciate it. What types of things really make you feel like you're playing through your Sims in a life simulation versus playing a game as a player? No worries if you don't want to respond, I don't want to put you on the spot.
@SimGuruHouts LOL are you serious? This stuff is basic knowledge for a Sims dev. I'm not trying to be mean, but the sims were initially about simulation and sandbox tools that let the player make their own stories. There already are hundreds of linear story telling games where you solve 'mysteries' - once and done. The sims was always about the creativity of the players and creating worlds and events within the limits of the sandbox. If you shrink the sandbox and limit the tools, then you get less and less creativity and less and less immersion to the point where you might aswell play another game that does storytelling better. The sims just need a strong foundation of depth of AI and interface with the game, and tools to create worlds and stories, and you're good to go. The 'extra' flashiness can be added if you still have stuff to do after all that. The core of the game is not 'go here do this', it's 'do this or this or this or this 20 different ways, or not'. I'm baffled with this question. I get that you're trying to engage and understand, but having a linear 'story' is not a simulation. If you had 20 different version of the story, or if aspects of it, or the entire thing, was customizable, then that would be a simulation. Again I respect your hard work, but I'm flabbergasted at this question/reply.
I disagree as the thing I've been missing most about Sims 1 and 2 are all the stories that made the game what it was and what has been missing for so long with Sims 3 and 4.
See, I don't think I ever noticed there were "stories" in Sims 1 and 2. But I stopped playing Sims 2 before the story packs came out, I guess.
Same as with Sims 3, I was uninterested enough by the "Magic" pack to regret buying it and never got back into playing it. Basically for both 2 and 3 the Magic Pack was such a turnoff I stopped playing.
The stories were in the base games and in every pack that came out. You found their stories in their memories and also in the game itself going through the history of all the Sims that came with each town (including the dead). Then there were outlined stories in at least the eps - as well as the cut scenes here and there. The guides were also full of info in case you didn't look into the memories and background stories. They were everywhere in Sims 1 and 2 - with Sims 2 really going in-depth in the story side of the game. I spent literally months working out mysteries and the various stories of the Sims. Then there were the dead sims that came in the cemeteries and all their stories as well. I brought many back in Sims 2 and even in Sims 3 to get their stories as well. There were whole groups of us in Sims 2 and 3 that went through looking for the "mysteries" and solving them - like the Green ghosts in Sims 3 and the mysterious junkyard deaths. Sims 2 had some mysterious stories when they added down town, between the mysterious dead sims in the cemetery and a few houses in downtown, and the teens who were available for Uni all connected to the same dead Father in the downtown cemetary. Tons of stories. The Missing Bella story was tiny compared to all the many ones in Sims 2 - believe me.
There were tons of stories wrapped in just Makin Magic alone between the various shop keepers and merchants even. You had to do more than just play the game. Lots of us had tons of fun playing out and finding the answers to the mysteries through out the Sims games. Sims 4 has been missing much of this side of the game - so it is thrilling to see even a tiny bit of it come back. Well Sims 4 is missing the memories so that accounts for a lot of the lack of stories and also does not have the kind of mysteries that were abound in Sims 1-2- and 3 through the towns people - and of course no cemeteries full of Sims with stories to share. (Sims 1 was missing the cemeteries too - so that one also didn't have the vast number of stories we found in Sims 2 and even Sims 3. Sims 2 had it all though.)
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
For me, these quest focused packs, make it feel like it's ME playing the game instead of me playing THROUGH my sims. That's the huge difference of playing a video game vs a life simulation.
One of our goals with this pack was to get the story to feel like it was part of the simulation and not some weird thing we shoehorned in. I'm sure the judgement of how well we accomplished this will vary from person to person, so I'm eager to get peoples' feedback.
I think I know what you mean about feeling like it's YOU playing the game instead of playing THROUGH your Sims, but if you could elaborate on it, I'd appreciate it. What types of things really make you feel like you're playing through your Sims in a life simulation versus playing a game as a player? No worries if you don't want to respond, I don't want to put you on the spot.
@SimGuruHouts LOL are you serious? This stuff is basic knowledge for a Sims dev. I'm not trying to be mean, but the sims were initially about simulation and sandbox tools that let the player make their own stories. There already are hundreds of linear story telling games where you solve 'mysteries' - once and done. The sims was always about the creativity of the players and creating worlds and events within the limits of the sandbox. If you shrink the sandbox and limit the tools, then you get less and less creativity and less and less immersion to the point where you might aswell play another game that does storytelling better. The sims just need a strong foundation of depth of AI and interface with the game, and tools to create worlds and stories, and you're good to go. The 'extra' flashiness can be added if you still have stuff to do after all that. The core of the game is not 'go here do this', it's 'do this or this or this or this 20 different ways, or not'. I'm baffled with this question. I get that you're trying to engage and understand, but having a linear 'story' is not a simulation. If you had 20 different version of the story, or if aspects of it, or the entire thing, was customizable, then that would be a simulation. Again I respect your hard work, but I'm flabbergasted at this question/reply.
I disagree as the thing I've been missing most about Sims 1 and 2 are all the stories that made the game what it was and what has been missing for so long with Sims 3 and 4.
See, I don't think I ever noticed there were "stories" in Sims 1 and 2. But I stopped playing Sims 2 before the story packs came out, I guess.
Same as with Sims 3, I was uninterested enough by the "Magic" pack to regret buying it and never got back into playing it. Basically for both 2 and 3 the Magic Pack was such a turnoff I stopped playing.
The stories were in the base games and in every pack that came out. You found their stories in their memories and also in the game itself going through the history of all the Sims that came with each town (including the dead). Then there were outlined stories in at least the eps - as well as the cut scenes here and there. The guides were also full of info in case you didn't look into the memories and background stories. They were everywhere in Sims 1 and 2 - with Sims 2 really going in-depth in the story side of the game. I spent literally months working out mysteries and the various stories of the Sims. Then there were the dead sims that came in the cemeteries and all their stories as well. I brought many back in Sims 2 and even in Sims 3 to get their stories as well. There were whole groups of us in Sims 2 and 3 that went through looking for the "mysteries" and solving them - like the Green ghosts in Sims 3 and the mysterious junkyard deaths. Sims 2 had some mysterious stories when they added down town, between the mysterious dead sims in the cemetery and a few houses in downtown, and the teens who were available for Uni all connected to the same dead Father in the downtown cemetary. Tons of stories. The Missing Bella story was tiny compared to all the many ones in Sims 2 - believe me.
There were tons of stories wrapped in just Makin Magic alone between the various shop keepers and merchants even. You had to do more than just play the game. Lots of us had tons of fun playing out and finding the answers to the mysteries through out the Sims games. Sims 4 has been missing much of this side of the game - so it is thrilling to see even a tiny bit of it come back. Well Sims 4 is missing the memories so that accounts for a lot of the lack of stories and also does not have the kind of mysteries that were abound in Sims 1-2- and 3 through the towns people - and of course no cemeteries full of Sims with stories to share. (Sims 1 was missing the cemeteries too - so that one also didn't have the vast number of stories we found in Sims 2 and even Sims 3. Sims 2 had it all though.)
I knew about the memories, but there were nothing, that I recall, that enforced the stories. Of course that was how many years ago? I don't even remember that there WERE cutscenes in the game? I have zero memory of those at all. Edit: Checking on youyube... AH. I think you and I have different definitions of what counts as "story cutscene". I am talking about something like in Mass Effect or Dragon Age. Those were just the same thing as now, but pretending to be a cutscene.
The only thing I really remember about the memories were how annoying it was that after a few hours of gameplay a popup informed me that my Sim's memory was full and he or she would not remember anything more.
I guess I have never cared enough for the premade stories to notice they were there, I have always treated the Sims like a big sandbox and I played a single family until I was bored with them and then restarted the game. In Sims 1, since it lacked aging and death of age, that usually meant "until I got enough money to design the perfect house for them" at which point I did just that, then never ever played that family again. IN Sims 2, 3 and 4 it usually means about 3 generations, then I am utterly bored and start over with a reset board, so to speak.
I have never poked around in the stories, since I never played premade sims, never played rotational saves, and never actually really cared about premades whatsoever unless I could marry, zombiefy or kill them. The only thing mattering to me is my story for my one Sim or family I focus on in that specific game.
(And again, I have regretted buying the magic expansion both for 2 and 3, and so I have learned my lesson and won't do it for 4 if it comes out. So that was an even bigger reason not to poke around in the "stories").
I am curious about what the branches in Military is?
Since Astronaut is it's own career now...
And so is secret agent so "intelligence officer" would not work.
I can't really come up with anything else than "general". What would the second branch be?
@Beardedgeek I heard the second branch was called something along the lines of "Covert Operator". So one is probably a conventional soldier career, the other ventures more into espionage.
Honestly I don't understand the slightest where this GP came from. No one asked for this xD
I see that they were trying to do a story based pack for this iteraion, but it's weird to put it in a main Sims game which is suppose to be all sandbox. It's a story dlc for TS4 pretty much. I guess it's nice that it comes with a work from home career that we can use whenever and...laptops? Humm if this pack came with more significant gameplay features or gameplay objects I could perhaps see it as a fine excuse for doing/having a story pack but.....idk.
I really liked Sims 2 on the PSP so I'll give this a try but it still feels weird having this in a main sims game imo. It should be part of a separate Sims 4 Stories game or something. It's just more scripted stuff for an already very scripted Sims game, not very good if you ask me, especially since we are missing so many things at this point. I just don't understand the need for this but ok.
For me, these quest focused packs, make it feel like it's ME playing the game instead of me playing THROUGH my sims. That's the huge difference of playing a video game vs a life simulation.
One of our goals with this pack was to get the story to feel like it was part of the simulation and not some weird thing we shoehorned in. I'm sure the judgement of how well we accomplished this will vary from person to person, so I'm eager to get peoples' feedback.
I think I know what you mean about feeling like it's YOU playing the game instead of playing THROUGH your Sims, but if you could elaborate on it, I'd appreciate it. What types of things really make you feel like you're playing through your Sims in a life simulation versus playing a game as a player? No worries if you don't want to respond, I don't want to put you on the spot.
For me, I miss hobbies. I think they gave my sims interests that were other than the daily grind of work and family. It seemed to afford my sims a getaway, some "me" time to do something that interested them (or me). I know we have art and music and writing, but I think of those as "work" hobbies because they can be actual money making jobs. Adding something like a sewing machine or loom or bring back the model train and sports, like the golf tee and soccer. Bring back the fixer upper and make it so a dad and son can work on it together. Sculpting, ice carving and other things we had in other versions but turned up a notch like bee keeping. And romance. Slow dancing and walking while holding hands. Kids dancing on Dads shoes, kids games like jump rope, hopscotch, cops and robbers. It was the simple things that made playing the sims fun. I like S4 but it seems to be limited to work, family, party. I just want more.
For me, these quest focused packs, make it feel like it's ME playing the game instead of me playing THROUGH my sims. That's the huge difference of playing a video game vs a life simulation.
One of our goals with this pack was to get the story to feel like it was part of the simulation and not some weird thing we shoehorned in. I'm sure the judgement of how well we accomplished this will vary from person to person, so I'm eager to get peoples' feedback.
I think I know what you mean about feeling like it's YOU playing the game instead of playing THROUGH your Sims, but if you could elaborate on it, I'd appreciate it. What types of things really make you feel like you're playing through your Sims in a life simulation versus playing a game as a player? No worries if you don't want to respond, I don't want to put you on the spot.
@SimGuruHouts LOL are you serious? This stuff is basic knowledge for a Sims dev. I'm not trying to be mean, but the sims were initially about simulation and sandbox tools that let the player make their own stories. There already are hundreds of linear story telling games where you solve 'mysteries' - once and done. The sims was always about the creativity of the players and creating worlds and events within the limits of the sandbox. If you shrink the sandbox and limit the tools, then you get less and less creativity and less and less immersion to the point where you might aswell play another game that does storytelling better. The sims just need a strong foundation of depth of AI and interface with the game, and tools to create worlds and stories, and you're good to go. The 'extra' flashiness can be added if you still have stuff to do after all that. The core of the game is not 'go here do this', it's 'do this or this or this or this 20 different ways, or not'. I'm baffled with this question. I get that you're trying to engage and understand, but having a linear 'story' is not a simulation. If you had 20 different version of the story, or if aspects of it, or the entire thing, was customizable, then that would be a simulation. Again I respect your hard work, but I'm flabbergasted at this question/reply.
There's no need to be rude, man. They gave their explanation and gave feedback.
Also, it IS a simulation regardless of whether it is in a linear narrative format or open-choices/sandbox-y format. The "simulation" genre covers many, many different kind of sub-categories with more precise definitions and variations, but just cause it's not the usual simulation doesn't mean it isn't one. There is a difference between "role play" and "simulation," but until the game comes out and we see how it plays out (unless it's specifically stated somewhere in a news article or something) there is no reason it can't be a simulation at this point.
Also, this isn't the first time the Sims have gone specific story routes. They used to do a series called "Sim Stories" or whatever way back. Sims Medieval even went the branching narrative (or sometimes linear narrative) route, as well. It's not what Sims 1 and 2 did, but it's not a completely different thing never done before by the series or any of their spin offs.
You don't have to like the direction, but you also don't have to be rude about it either.
For me, these quest focused packs, make it feel like it's ME playing the game instead of me playing THROUGH my sims. That's the huge difference of playing a video game vs a life simulation.
One of our goals with this pack was to get the story to feel like it was part of the simulation and not some weird thing we shoehorned in. I'm sure the judgement of how well we accomplished this will vary from person to person, so I'm eager to get peoples' feedback.
I think I know what you mean about feeling like it's YOU playing the game instead of playing THROUGH your Sims, but if you could elaborate on it, I'd appreciate it. What types of things really make you feel like you're playing through your Sims in a life simulation versus playing a game as a player? No worries if you don't want to respond, I don't want to put you on the spot.
Not quoted to but if you guys really want to know why was TS2 so amazing, it's because every sims were differents, each ones had unique personalities. You should read my thread here about better personalities and how to improve the game, cause TS4 will never feel complete with lackluster sims like that. https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/954487/better-personalities-ideas
For me, these quest focused packs, make it feel like it's ME playing the game instead of me playing THROUGH my sims. That's the huge difference of playing a video game vs a life simulation.
One of our goals with this pack was to get the story to feel like it was part of the simulation and not some weird thing we shoehorned in. I'm sure the judgement of how well we accomplished this will vary from person to person, so I'm eager to get peoples' feedback.
I think I know what you mean about feeling like it's YOU playing the game instead of playing THROUGH your Sims, but if you could elaborate on it, I'd appreciate it. What types of things really make you feel like you're playing through your Sims in a life simulation versus playing a game as a player? No worries if you don't want to respond, I don't want to put you on the spot.
Well most video games are progressive, you're given a mission to complete. With life simulation games you're given an open world with real life objects and situations that can be used a million different ways by any number of characters one creates. In life simulation games the player becomes the character on the screen, that's why first thing people do when they play sims is create themselves.
Introducing video game progression into a life simulation is jarring as the player can literally feel themselves being pulled back into their own body. They are the ones figuring out the preset mission, not the sim. The immersion stops.
Some people that are excited about this pack most likely dont realize how packs like this will ruin sims if done too much. They will find they dont like the feeling of playing of it but wont know why. Perhaps it's because I play tons of video games that I can easily feel the difference.
I worry EA is trying to entertain players with mission driven packs like this. We dont need entertained. We just need EA to provide us with the proper tools to entertain ourselves.
Unless it said very clear that I can option out all strange story or I will not pay for this pack. I hate sims 3 zombie so much and I uninstalled the whole pack. It ruin the game experience . I prefer to give up military career in return for a peaceful sims story.
For me, these quest focused packs, make it feel like it's ME playing the game instead of me playing THROUGH my sims. That's the huge difference of playing a video game vs a life simulation.
One of our goals with this pack was to get the story to feel like it was part of the simulation and not some weird thing we shoehorned in. I'm sure the judgement of how well we accomplished this will vary from person to person, so I'm eager to get peoples' feedback.
I think I know what you mean about feeling like it's YOU playing the game instead of playing THROUGH your Sims, but if you could elaborate on it, I'd appreciate it. What types of things really make you feel like you're playing through your Sims in a life simulation versus playing a game as a player? No worries if you don't want to respond, I don't want to put you on the spot.
@SimGuruHouts LOL are you serious? This stuff is basic knowledge for a Sims dev. I'm not trying to be mean, but the sims were initially about simulation and sandbox tools that let the player make their own stories. There already are hundreds of linear story telling games where you solve 'mysteries' - once and done. The sims was always about the creativity of the players and creating worlds and events within the limits of the sandbox. If you shrink the sandbox and limit the tools, then you get less and less creativity and less and less immersion to the point where you might aswell play another game that does storytelling better. The sims just need a strong foundation of depth of AI and interface with the game, and tools to create worlds and stories, and you're good to go. The 'extra' flashiness can be added if you still have stuff to do after all that. The core of the game is not 'go here do this', it's 'do this or this or this or this 20 different ways, or not'. I'm baffled with this question. I get that you're trying to engage and understand, but having a linear 'story' is not a simulation. If you had 20 different version of the story, or if aspects of it, or the entire thing, was customizable, then that would be a simulation. Again I respect your hard work, but I'm flabbergasted at this question/reply.
I disagree as the thing I've been missing most about Sims 1 and 2 are all the stories that made the game what it was and what has been missing for so long with Sims 3 and 4. Don't get me wrong - I love Sims 3 - but it was very different than Sims 1 or 2. Sims 2 over all was the best life simulation and all the many stories of all the towns people is what made it so interesting and fun. You could go through their memories and the memories of people in the other memories and follow their who life story - then finally pick it up and continue it during the present or go in a total different direction. I had goals to continue the stories and fix the feud (Capps and Monty's for one) and it was all doable because we had their stories right there in the game to fix or do what ever with. The sims were very much story Oriented - like the story of what happened to Bella Goth - well I hunted it all down and solved it and brought her back. That was only possible because the whole story is there and can be made right if you were so inclined - but if that was nt your thing then you ignored that part of the game. I never ignored anything though and I very much love the option of having the choice and story there if I so desired to go that route. That option is back in this new pack - but I can't help but wish all the packs and sims also had their stories in the game too - just like the game was designed. It had many ways to play there if you so desired to follow them.
I never really played Sims 2 but aren’t those stories just, like you say, background stories and pictures? It’s not actual gameplay you have to go through is it? Sims 3 had background stories like that as well, just not the pictures. Handing someone the beginning of a story is something entirely different than having to play out that story.
For me, these quest focused packs, make it feel like it's ME playing the game instead of me playing THROUGH my sims. That's the huge difference of playing a video game vs a life simulation.
One of our goals with this pack was to get the story to feel like it was part of the simulation and not some weird thing we shoehorned in. I'm sure the judgement of how well we accomplished this will vary from person to person, so I'm eager to get peoples' feedback.
I think I know what you mean about feeling like it's YOU playing the game instead of playing THROUGH your Sims, but if you could elaborate on it, I'd appreciate it. What types of things really make you feel like you're playing through your Sims in a life simulation versus playing a game as a player? No worries if you don't want to respond, I don't want to put you on the spot.
Well most video games are progressive, you're given a mission to complete. With life simulation games you're given an open world with real life objects and situations that can be used a million different ways by any number of characters one creates. In life simulation games the player becomes the character on the screen, that's why first thing people do when they play sims is create themselves.
Introducing video game progression into a life simulation is jarring as the player can literally feel themselves being pulled back into their own body. They are the ones figuring out the preset mission, not the sim. The immersion stops.
Some people that are excited about this pack most likely dont realize how packs like this will ruin sims if done too much. They will find they dont like the feeling of playing of it but wont know why. Perhaps it's because I play tons of video games that I can easily feel the difference.
I worry EA is trying to entertain players with mission driven packs like this. We dont need entertained. We just need EA to provide us with the proper tools to entertain ourselves.
I disagree, and not because I don't understand video games, or haven't played video games, or am incapable or realizing change and effect. No, my disagreement does not stem from an ethical or cognitive defect but because I don't think that sandbox and story elements are mutually exclusive. You can simultaneously have open ended gameplay and a hook that says "hey, something is going on in the world". This pack will be a prime example of this.
You see, we've had progression in Sims titles for decades. What did you think those parties starting back in The Sims 2 were and are all about? However, now instead of a player-initiated and totally optional series of tasks that result in a bonus or item, we have player-initiated and totally optional tasks that tie the character into the world and its backstory. You can put it off until you want to do it. You can do it in bits and pieces, You can ignore it forever.
In the end, I have a sim that belongs in this sim world. They have ties to the neighborhood; they've done things, for good or ill. And because of that, their relationship to those in the neighborhood have additional weight. That's a great step forward for this series, and something I hope will be incorporated in a hypothetical sequel. Otherwise, we're really just purchasing The Sims 2 for the fourth time.
@Beardedgeek I heard the second branch was called something along the lines of "Covert Operator". So one is probably a conventional soldier career, the other ventures more into espionage.
That's the thing tho. I guess the second career path IS the MIB you see in the trailer... But to me there is not enough of a difference from a "secret agent".
I am beyond hyped for this pack. 1: my favorite town ever, in all the games, is Strangetown so to revisit elements of that just makes me INCREDIBLY hyped.
2: although I am hyped, my first thought was ‘this is a love song to the Apocalypse challenge’. If there isn’t bunker stuff I would be shocked, and I am sure every Apocalypse challenge players are H Y P E D considering this will really let them set up the challenge on a macro level.
I have started to make an easy to follow site for the Apocalypse Challenge rules. I asked the creators of the AC for permission to modify their TS4 rules to mirror the TS2 AC challenge rules.
They had also decided they weren’t going to keep updating the rules as new careers came out, so I decided to do this as well.
It was a very big project and I still hadn’t finished adding the acting career restrictions. But being that this new GP is coming out and would be PERFECT to start an AC in, I am going to work on it more today and start the military career sections as well, these of course won’t be finished until the GP releases
For me, these quest focused packs, make it feel like it's ME playing the game instead of me playing THROUGH my sims. That's the huge difference of playing a video game vs a life simulation.
One of our goals with this pack was to get the story to feel like it was part of the simulation and not some weird thing we shoehorned in. I'm sure the judgement of how well we accomplished this will vary from person to person, so I'm eager to get peoples' feedback.
I think I know what you mean about feeling like it's YOU playing the game instead of playing THROUGH your Sims, but if you could elaborate on it, I'd appreciate it. What types of things really make you feel like you're playing through your Sims in a life simulation versus playing a game as a player? No worries if you don't want to respond, I don't want to put you on the spot.
@SimGuruHouts LOL are you serious? This stuff is basic knowledge for a Sims dev. I'm not trying to be mean, but the sims were initially about simulation and sandbox tools that let the player make their own stories. There already are hundreds of linear story telling games where you solve 'mysteries' - once and done. The sims was always about the creativity of the players and creating worlds and events within the limits of the sandbox. If you shrink the sandbox and limit the tools, then you get less and less creativity and less and less immersion to the point where you might aswell play another game that does storytelling better. The sims just need a strong foundation of depth of AI and interface with the game, and tools to create worlds and stories, and you're good to go. The 'extra' flashiness can be added if you still have stuff to do after all that. The core of the game is not 'go here do this', it's 'do this or this or this or this 20 different ways, or not'. I'm baffled with this question. I get that you're trying to engage and understand, but having a linear 'story' is not a simulation. If you had 20 different version of the story, or if aspects of it, or the entire thing, was customizable, then that would be a simulation. Again I respect your hard work, but I'm flabbergasted at this question/reply.
I disagree as the thing I've been missing most about Sims 1 and 2 are all the stories that made the game what it was and what has been missing for so long with Sims 3 and 4. Don't get me wrong - I love Sims 3 - but it was very different than Sims 1 or 2. Sims 2 over all was the best life simulation and all the many stories of all the towns people is what made it so interesting and fun. You could go through their memories and the memories of people in the other memories and follow their who life story - then finally pick it up and continue it during the present or go in a total different direction. I had goals to continue the stories and fix the feud (Capps and Monty's for one) and it was all doable because we had their stories right there in the game to fix or do what ever with. The sims were very much story Oriented - like the story of what happened to Bella Goth - well I hunted it all down and solved it and brought her back. That was only possible because the whole story is there and can be made right if you were so inclined - but if that was nt your thing then you ignored that part of the game. I never ignored anything though and I very much love the option of having the choice and story there if I so desired to go that route. That option is back in this new pack - but I can't help but wish all the packs and sims also had their stories in the game too - just like the game was designed. It had many ways to play there if you so desired to follow them.
I never really played Sims 2 but aren’t those stories just, like you say, background stories and pictures? It’s not actual gameplay you have to go through is it? Sims 3 had background stories like that as well, just not the pictures. Handing someone the beginning of a story is something entirely different than having to play out that story.
Yep. Unless you dig deep and CHOOSE to reenact the "stories" in Sims 2 they never come up, in any way. Just like in Sims 4. Zest being the unwated son of the Landgraabs for example. Heavily hinted at but NOTHING that enforces the story in the game. Not even a low relationship score with his dad. Same in Sims 2:
"Oh look, is this the real Bella? Look in her memory photo book!". Again, nothing whatsoever that backs the story up or pushes you in any specific direction. She's just another Sim with no objective fulfilling her needs and stumbling around randomly showing up unless you 1. Choose to check IF she has a "story" and 2. Decide to take the story in your own hand and play it out, from both ends.
This pack seems to be far more like an actual story.
I apologize, I honestly didn't mean to be rude at all. I was just confused by the post I replied to. Sometimes my passion for the game gets the better of me. Truly sorry all.
@Writin_Reg I'm aware there are stories in Sims 2, but these stories are not the core of the game, which is my point. I love stories that you can choose to act out, where you have a lot of options and especially customization. Stories are a great addition to already existing depth of gameplay, but they are not in themselves inherently sandbox oriented. A good example of sandbox tools that are story oriented are the different life states in Sims 2 - where you can avoid them pretty much completely if you want, but also you can use them to create many many different stories. It's the versatility in the story tool that I'm talking about here, I'm not against having certain linear stories either, but we were talking about what simulation and sandbox is about, and a linear story is not it. That said, ofcourse I am intrigued by the story and what it is, and I might enjoy playing it also, but it's still not sandbox, and for me it never was what Sims was about.
Your point about memories is a great example what is missing with Sims 4 - memories is a sandbox tool that effectively helps you create complex stories - especially because those memories effects how the sims interacts with other sims. There are many many more examples to draw from previous installments, and because Sims 4 is lacking in certain core sandbox tools, until we get those, stories just won't be the same for me. I'm still holding out hope that we will get wants/fears and likes/dislikes and an attraction system - preferably with a memory system.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
Comments
he'd also said they had put little story aspects in some of the existing households and existing lots in the game, but they're more flavor than anything and you can go through the whole story of the world without ever seeing, or needing to see, them
that said, it seems having a bar and a library in the world will help the story move along since there's mention of asking military personnel at the former and scientists at the latter about some of the goings-on when you start investigating the story. (i'm planning on having heavily modified versions of those two lots in my game once i finish the story for the first time. want to keep everything as is for the first playthrough just to see all the little bonus bits they'd put into the lots and households. and possibly see if i can or want to replicate them in the new versions)
I disagree as the thing I've been missing most about Sims 1 and 2 are all the stories that made the game what it was and what has been missing for so long with Sims 3 and 4. Don't get me wrong - I love Sims 3 - but it was very different than Sims 1 or 2. Sims 2 over all was the best life simulation and all the many stories of all the towns people is what made it so interesting and fun. You could go through their memories and the memories of people in the other memories and follow their who life story - then finally pick it up and continue it during the present or go in a total different direction. I had goals to continue the stories and fix the feud (Capps and Monty's for one) and it was all doable because we had their stories right there in the game to fix or do what ever with. The sims were very much story Oriented - like the story of what happened to Bella Goth - well I hunted it all down and solved it and brought her back. That was only possible because the whole story is there and can be made right if you were so inclined - but if that was nt your thing then you ignored that part of the game. I never ignored anything though and I very much love the option of having the choice and story there if I so desired to go that route. That option is back in this new pack - but I can't help but wish all the packs and sims also had their stories in the game too - just like the game was designed. It had many ways to play there if you so desired to follow them.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I know some of you guys are disappointed. That's fair. Sometimes pkgs are either...ridiculous to me (A laundry pack. Really) Or seem great but are actually very draining to play (Pets) but I appreciate the work the devs do. The way some posters speak to the devs who post on here is astonishing. The height of rudeness.
See, I don't think I ever noticed there were "stories" in Sims 1 and 2. But I stopped playing Sims 2 before the story packs came out, I guess.
Same as with Sims 3, I was uninterested enough by the "Magic" pack to regret buying it and never got back into playing it. Basically for both 2 and 3 the Magic Pack was such a turnoff I stopped playing.
The stories were in the base games and in every pack that came out. You found their stories in their memories and also in the game itself going through the history of all the Sims that came with each town (including the dead). Then there were outlined stories in at least the eps - as well as the cut scenes here and there. The guides were also full of info in case you didn't look into the memories and background stories. They were everywhere in Sims 1 and 2 - with Sims 2 really going in-depth in the story side of the game. I spent literally months working out mysteries and the various stories of the Sims. Then there were the dead sims that came in the cemeteries and all their stories as well. I brought many back in Sims 2 and even in Sims 3 to get their stories as well. There were whole groups of us in Sims 2 and 3 that went through looking for the "mysteries" and solving them - like the Green ghosts in Sims 3 and the mysterious junkyard deaths. Sims 2 had some mysterious stories when they added down town, between the mysterious dead sims in the cemetery and a few houses in downtown, and the teens who were available for Uni all connected to the same dead Father in the downtown cemetary. Tons of stories. The Missing Bella story was tiny compared to all the many ones in Sims 2 - believe me.
There were tons of stories wrapped in just Makin Magic alone between the various shop keepers and merchants even. You had to do more than just play the game. Lots of us had tons of fun playing out and finding the answers to the mysteries through out the Sims games. Sims 4 has been missing much of this side of the game - so it is thrilling to see even a tiny bit of it come back. Well Sims 4 is missing the memories so that accounts for a lot of the lack of stories and also does not have the kind of mysteries that were abound in Sims 1-2- and 3 through the towns people - and of course no cemeteries full of Sims with stories to share. (Sims 1 was missing the cemeteries too - so that one also didn't have the vast number of stories we found in Sims 2 and even Sims 3. Sims 2 had it all though.)
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I knew about the memories, but there were nothing, that I recall, that enforced the stories. Of course that was how many years ago? I don't even remember that there WERE cutscenes in the game? I have zero memory of those at all. Edit: Checking on youyube... AH. I think you and I have different definitions of what counts as "story cutscene". I am talking about something like in Mass Effect or Dragon Age. Those were just the same thing as now, but pretending to be a cutscene.
The only thing I really remember about the memories were how annoying it was that after a few hours of gameplay a popup informed me that my Sim's memory was full and he or she would not remember anything more.
I guess I have never cared enough for the premade stories to notice they were there, I have always treated the Sims like a big sandbox and I played a single family until I was bored with them and then restarted the game. In Sims 1, since it lacked aging and death of age, that usually meant "until I got enough money to design the perfect house for them" at which point I did just that, then never ever played that family again. IN Sims 2, 3 and 4 it usually means about 3 generations, then I am utterly bored and start over with a reset board, so to speak.
I have never poked around in the stories, since I never played premade sims, never played rotational saves, and never actually really cared about premades whatsoever unless I could marry, zombiefy or kill them. The only thing mattering to me is my story for my one Sim or family I focus on in that specific game.
(And again, I have regretted buying the magic expansion both for 2 and 3, and so I have learned my lesson and won't do it for 4 if it comes out. So that was an even bigger reason not to poke around in the "stories").
Since Astronaut is it's own career now...
And so is secret agent so "intelligence officer" would not work.
I can't really come up with anything else than "general". What would the second branch be?
Something wicked this way comes!
I don't use MCCC.
I see that they were trying to do a story based pack for this iteraion, but it's weird to put it in a main Sims game which is suppose to be all sandbox. It's a story dlc for TS4 pretty much. I guess it's nice that it comes with a work from home career that we can use whenever and...laptops? Humm if this pack came with more significant gameplay features or gameplay objects I could perhaps see it as a fine excuse for doing/having a story pack but.....idk.
I really liked Sims 2 on the PSP so I'll give this a try but it still feels weird having this in a main sims game imo. It should be part of a separate Sims 4 Stories game or something. It's just more scripted stuff for an already very scripted Sims game, not very good if you ask me, especially since we are missing so many things at this point. I just don't understand the need for this but ok.
For me, I miss hobbies. I think they gave my sims interests that were other than the daily grind of work and family. It seemed to afford my sims a getaway, some "me" time to do something that interested them (or me). I know we have art and music and writing, but I think of those as "work" hobbies because they can be actual money making jobs. Adding something like a sewing machine or loom or bring back the model train and sports, like the golf tee and soccer. Bring back the fixer upper and make it so a dad and son can work on it together. Sculpting, ice carving and other things we had in other versions but turned up a notch like bee keeping. And romance. Slow dancing and walking while holding hands. Kids dancing on Dads shoes, kids games like jump rope, hopscotch, cops and robbers. It was the simple things that made playing the sims fun. I like S4 but it seems to be limited to work, family, party. I just want more.
There's no need to be rude, man. They gave their explanation and gave feedback.
Also, it IS a simulation regardless of whether it is in a linear narrative format or open-choices/sandbox-y format. The "simulation" genre covers many, many different kind of sub-categories with more precise definitions and variations, but just cause it's not the usual simulation doesn't mean it isn't one. There is a difference between "role play" and "simulation," but until the game comes out and we see how it plays out (unless it's specifically stated somewhere in a news article or something) there is no reason it can't be a simulation at this point.
Also, this isn't the first time the Sims have gone specific story routes. They used to do a series called "Sim Stories" or whatever way back. Sims Medieval even went the branching narrative (or sometimes linear narrative) route, as well. It's not what Sims 1 and 2 did, but it's not a completely different thing never done before by the series or any of their spin offs.
You don't have to like the direction, but you also don't have to be rude about it either.
Not quoted to but if you guys really want to know why was TS2 so amazing, it's because every sims were differents, each ones had unique personalities. You should read my thread here about better personalities and how to improve the game, cause TS4 will never feel complete with lackluster sims like that. https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/954487/better-personalities-ideas
Well most video games are progressive, you're given a mission to complete. With life simulation games you're given an open world with real life objects and situations that can be used a million different ways by any number of characters one creates. In life simulation games the player becomes the character on the screen, that's why first thing people do when they play sims is create themselves.
Introducing video game progression into a life simulation is jarring as the player can literally feel themselves being pulled back into their own body. They are the ones figuring out the preset mission, not the sim. The immersion stops.
Some people that are excited about this pack most likely dont realize how packs like this will ruin sims if done too much. They will find they dont like the feeling of playing of it but wont know why. Perhaps it's because I play tons of video games that I can easily feel the difference.
I worry EA is trying to entertain players with mission driven packs like this. We dont need entertained. We just need EA to provide us with the proper tools to entertain ourselves.
I disagree, and not because I don't understand video games, or haven't played video games, or am incapable or realizing change and effect. No, my disagreement does not stem from an ethical or cognitive defect but because I don't think that sandbox and story elements are mutually exclusive. You can simultaneously have open ended gameplay and a hook that says "hey, something is going on in the world". This pack will be a prime example of this.
You see, we've had progression in Sims titles for decades. What did you think those parties starting back in The Sims 2 were and are all about? However, now instead of a player-initiated and totally optional series of tasks that result in a bonus or item, we have player-initiated and totally optional tasks that tie the character into the world and its backstory. You can put it off until you want to do it. You can do it in bits and pieces, You can ignore it forever.
In the end, I have a sim that belongs in this sim world. They have ties to the neighborhood; they've done things, for good or ill. And because of that, their relationship to those in the neighborhood have additional weight. That's a great step forward for this series, and something I hope will be incorporated in a hypothetical sequel. Otherwise, we're really just purchasing The Sims 2 for the fourth time.
Actually poll results by Gurus had something along these lines in the top. So a LOT of people asked for this.
That's the thing tho. I guess the second career path IS the MIB you see in the trailer... But to me there is not enough of a difference from a "secret agent".
I have started to make an easy to follow site for the Apocalypse Challenge rules. I asked the creators of the AC for permission to modify their TS4 rules to mirror the TS2 AC challenge rules.
They had also decided they weren’t going to keep updating the rules as new careers came out, so I decided to do this as well.
It was a very big project and I still hadn’t finished adding the acting career restrictions. But being that this new GP is coming out and would be PERFECT to start an AC in, I am going to work on it more today and start the military career sections as well, these of course won’t be finished until the GP releases
Anyways it’s not a finished product, but here is the site:
https://sites.google.com/view/ts4apocalypsechallenge/home
The challenge is much harder made to mirror the TS2 rules, so just a caution
Yep. Unless you dig deep and CHOOSE to reenact the "stories" in Sims 2 they never come up, in any way. Just like in Sims 4. Zest being the unwated son of the Landgraabs for example. Heavily hinted at but NOTHING that enforces the story in the game. Not even a low relationship score with his dad. Same in Sims 2:
"Oh look, is this the real Bella? Look in her memory photo book!". Again, nothing whatsoever that backs the story up or pushes you in any specific direction. She's just another Sim with no objective fulfilling her needs and stumbling around randomly showing up unless you 1. Choose to check IF she has a "story" and 2. Decide to take the story in your own hand and play it out, from both ends.
This pack seems to be far more like an actual story.
@Writin_Reg I'm aware there are stories in Sims 2, but these stories are not the core of the game, which is my point. I love stories that you can choose to act out, where you have a lot of options and especially customization. Stories are a great addition to already existing depth of gameplay, but they are not in themselves inherently sandbox oriented. A good example of sandbox tools that are story oriented are the different life states in Sims 2 - where you can avoid them pretty much completely if you want, but also you can use them to create many many different stories. It's the versatility in the story tool that I'm talking about here, I'm not against having certain linear stories either, but we were talking about what simulation and sandbox is about, and a linear story is not it. That said, ofcourse I am intrigued by the story and what it is, and I might enjoy playing it also, but it's still not sandbox, and for me it never was what Sims was about.
Your point about memories is a great example what is missing with Sims 4 - memories is a sandbox tool that effectively helps you create complex stories - especially because those memories effects how the sims interacts with other sims. There are many many more examples to draw from previous installments, and because Sims 4 is lacking in certain core sandbox tools, until we get those, stories just won't be the same for me. I'm still holding out hope that we will get wants/fears and likes/dislikes and an attraction system - preferably with a memory system.