Have you seen some fandoms lately? Maybe some developers would be better off with disclaimers like that. For example, a lot Diablo fans are furious about that new mobile game, and a lot of Pokemon fans are really angry about the “Let’s Go!” games for more casual fans. The devs are obviously trying to keep people from getting insanely hyped because they’ve seen how nasty backlash can get, especially when it’s something people are really passionate about.
Yep, I have, and I can understand why they are upset. There’s actually a good article that sums up exactly what led up to this whole debacle with Diablo for anyone who is curious: https://forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2018/11/06/the-5-biggest-problems-with-this-diablo-immortal-fiasco/#2bab9d2c145a
I’m going to quote the article directly because the writer sums up a larger issue in the gaming community that has affected many franchises, as well as The Sims.
Is it really gamers’ fault for being upset by the Diablo Immortal announcement? Are they just “entitled gamers” once again, as they were decried during the Mass Effect 3 controversy and countless others? Or are they actually entitled to a little upset when they’re let down by the very companies whose games they buy and support? After all, without consumers a company is dead in the water. Game publishers and the press forget this at their peril.
Let’s conjure a metaphor. Imagine going to a restaurant that’s been hyping this amazing steak dinner. Everyone is excited for this dinner but when they get there, the waiter tells them sorry we don’t have steak but it’s still going to be a great dinner, just wait and see. Then they bring out steamed veggies. The customers are upset. They were expecting steak, and if not steak they were expecting a meal still and yet all they’re given is steamed veggies. “Is this a joke?” one asks.
Now imagine that these customers are told they’re exhibiting signs of “toxic masculinity” and that they’re just “entitled” crybabies who need to shut up and go home. The restaurant has every right to make steamed veggies and if they’re just patient, down the road they’ll also have steak. Headlines make much ado over these entitled restaurant goers who can’t just shut up and eat their broccoli. I’m sorry but if this sounds crazy to you, welcome to the gaming industry where we’re routinely given broccoli and told to chew, promises of steak be 🐸🐸🐸🐸.
Blizzard developers asking their biggest fans "Do you guys not have phones?" when they see how disappointed they are that this game isn't coming to PC is likewise incredibly unhelpful. How is this the customers' fault? No, it is not entitled to expect the company you've supported for years to announce something geared toward you at their biggest event of the year. That's not entitlement or toxic or anything else, and anyone saying so is missing the point very badly indeed.
Some of the text above that I bolded might sound very familiar to a lot of simmers.
If you are saying that the company is keeping players unsatisfied on purpose, that just doesn't make any sense to me. But I'm thinking you're referring to personal player requests for content that haven't been addressed yet. In this case, I don't even know where to begin and I really don't want to make this response excessively long. I'll try to keep it direct.
Hmmm, that is an interesting thought indeed. I doubt it wouldn’t make much sense to anyone except to the people pulling the strings. Thanks for pointing that out! I’m not going to speculate about why you felt the need to pick apart my post line for line, but I stand by what I said. The fact that you’re doubling down and trying to stamp out any dissenting opinion doesn't add any credence to your argument. I didn’t quote you as a personal attack by the way, your earlier post just happened to include some assertions that I find deeply troubling in the sims community that hold no benefit to either the players or the developers. The article I quoted examines the same issue I am talking about here, so I will let it speak for me. Otherwise, at this rate, we might as well be coauthoring a novel.
In short, no, the community should not vote for any updates to the base game. The process might be significantly different, from how the paid content is developed, as a result it might be complicated and time consuming to implement in first place. Another big issue, is that online voting does not represent the majority in any way. The Sims community is split in different major online platforms. An ingame vote system would more or less come closer, but it still has issues.
As @LiELF pointed out, the game is not a commision but a fixed product with moderate flexibility, that allows to include some requested features, but most definitely not all. I see people taking for granted that Sims developers listen and implement features as the game progresses. To be honest, I cannot name any other big title that frequently receives updates, much less substantial patches like what is coming in November. By release the base game is usually complete and gets bug fixes and minor updates, as DLC content is rolled out. Maybe it is the Sims DLC model, that pretty much requires an invested and active community over the years, or how the base game it self should be kept up with upcoming expansion packs, that allows for flexibility as the game progresses. But either way, it most definitely should not be taken for granted, that and the fact that people developing the game probably have a good idea where they want to take the end product.
If you are saying that the company is keeping players unsatisfied on purpose, that just doesn't make any sense to me. But I'm thinking you're referring to personal player requests for content that haven't been addressed yet. In this case, I don't even know where to begin and I really don't want to make this response excessively long. I'll try to keep it direct.
Hmmm, that is an interesting thought indeed. I doubt it wouldn’t make much sense to anyone except to the people pulling the strings. Thanks for pointing that out! I’m not going to speculate about why you felt the need to pick apart my post line for line, but I stand by what I said. The fact that you’re doubling down and trying to stamp out any dissenting opinion doesn't add any credence to your argument. I didn’t quote you as a personal attack by the way, your earlier post just happened to include some assertions that I find deeply troubling in the sims community that hold no benefit to either the players or the developers. The article I quoted examines the same issue I am talking about here, so I will let it speak for me. Otherwise, at this rate, we might as well be coauthoring a novel.
I'm not trying to stamp out anyone's opinion, I just see a lot of faulty and problematic logic, so I was pointing it out.
If you quote me, I am going to further defend and explain my perspective. I just don't see how telling people to take responsibility for themselves is "troubling". People overhype, ignore the reality check from the devs, and then blame everyone else for their disappointment. Cautioning the community to keep themselves in check is perfectly rational. Part of doing that is preparing yourself for the disappointment that The Thing You Want Most is not going to be the next "small feature". That's all I was saying with that statement.
It's one thing to join the fun and speculate a little and guess what the new feature is, and then if it isn't anything that interests you to say so and move on. But it's entirely another thing to throw yourself into hype and convince yourself it's going to be a specific thing and ignore cautions and then rant at everyone else when it isn't what you had hoped for. So I also stand by my own statement. Preparing yourself for a little disappointment is not bad advice.
It would just be nice to have the devs take into consideration the fans' opinions more. This isn't to say they should shape their future game packs or game features solely around our opinions because they can't please everyone, but I think a lot of simmers felt like the devs were ignoring them, especially in the beginning
While I want to see devs listen to fans, I also love seeing the stuff they want for the game. This is their game too.
Also, there’s this disconnect on the forum where people who don’t like supernaturals will pop into threads about stuff like “which supernatural would you like next” to comment that they only play realistic games and developing more supernaturals would be a waste of development time. I’ve never seen anybody say “freeing babies would be pointless, give me witches” or “who needs university when you could have werewolves” in those threads.
If you are saying that the company is keeping players unsatisfied on purpose, that just doesn't make any sense to me. But I'm thinking you're referring to personal player requests for content that haven't been addressed yet. In this case, I don't even know where to begin and I really don't want to make this response excessively long. I'll try to keep it direct.
Hmmm, that is an interesting thought indeed. I doubt it wouldn’t make much sense to anyone except to the people pulling the strings. Thanks for pointing that out! I’m not going to speculate about why you felt the need to pick apart my post line for line, but I stand by what I said. The fact that you’re doubling down and trying to stamp out any dissenting opinion doesn't add any credence to your argument. I didn’t quote you as a personal attack by the way, your earlier post just happened to include some assertions that I find deeply troubling in the sims community that hold no benefit to either the players or the developers. The article I quoted examines the same issue I am talking about here, so I will let it speak for me. Otherwise, at this rate, we might as well be coauthoring a novel.
I'm not trying to stamp out anyone's opinion, I just see a lot of faulty and problematic logic, so I was pointing it out.
If you quote me, I am going to further defend and explain my perspective. I just don't see how telling people to take responsibility for themselves is "troubling". People overhype, ignore the reality check from the devs, and then blame everyone else for their disappointment. Cautioning the community to keep themselves in check is perfectly rational. Part of doing that is preparing yourself for the disappointment that The Thing You Want Most is not going to be the next "small feature". That's all I was saying with that statement.
It's one thing to join the fun and speculate a little and guess what the new feature is, and then if it isn't anything that interests you to say so and move on. But it's entirely another thing to throw yourself into hype and convince yourself it's going to be a specific thing and ignore cautions and then rant at everyone else when it isn't what you had hoped for. So I also stand by my own statement. Preparing yourself for a little disappointment is not bad advice.
Yes, but the lady doth protest too much, methinks. Taking responsibility and lowing one’s expectations are quite different, you see. I advise you not to confuse one for the other, lest you suffer at your own peril. I wish you luck with on your long road of disappointment. There are at least three more years of it and I do not relish any of them, despite your previous interpretations of my opinion. I have hoped many times that this studio would pull through, and still do, but if the community insists on believing and propagating the assertions that you and many others espouse, then I don’t believe anything good can come from this line of thinking. When the same developers that have worshipped and then decried previous titles end up throwing TS4 under the bus several years from now, maybe then you will understand what I’ve been hinting at. They do not care about me, nor you or anyone else for that matter. They do not care about what any of their consumers want. If anything, they care about their influencers, but they are not paying customers. Until those relationships are no longer beneficial, and the keyboard warriors and useful mouthpieces stop shouting at one another, this community will continue on its downward decline, until some executive rules that The Sims isn’t a money maker anymore and closes its studio for good. The writing is on the wall, if you couldn’t see it already. Read between the lines and you will see it, too.
I will say that I agree with you, however, that preparing oneself for disappoint now is good advice.
Absolutely. We voted on stuff packs why not the other two kinds?
That was 1 sp - with permission from EA to make with the Community - it was not even the typical sp - it is much bigger and allowed things regular sps do not get - never mind over a year to make. SPs generally take 3-4 month max. Besides the devs said it would not be allowed for eps and gps because those both have very different requirements than an sp and many more people are involved as well as time involved.
Maybe if all of us were asking for that, EA would approve... I don't see why not!
I would love if all SPs were made in a Community Project. I mean, some people were not happy about getting Laundry Day, but mostly because they were not able to get the other things that they wanted done... If we could participate more on creating SPs, that would be cool!
Absolutely. We voted on stuff packs why not the other two kinds?
That was 1 sp - with permission from EA to make with the Community - it was not even the typical sp - it is much bigger and allowed things regular sps do not get - never mind over a year to make. SPs generally take 3-4 month max. Besides the devs said it would not be allowed for eps and gps because those both have very different requirements than an sp and many more people are involved as well as time involved.
Maybe if all of us were asking for that, EA would approve... I don't see why not!
Comments
https://forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2018/11/06/the-5-biggest-problems-with-this-diablo-immortal-fiasco/#2bab9d2c145a
I’m going to quote the article directly because the writer sums up a larger issue in the gaming community that has affected many franchises, as well as The Sims. Some of the text above that I bolded might sound very familiar to a lot of simmers.
Hmmm, that is an interesting thought indeed. I doubt it wouldn’t make much sense to anyone except to the people pulling the strings. Thanks for pointing that out! I’m not going to speculate about why you felt the need to pick apart my post line for line, but I stand by what I said. The fact that you’re doubling down and trying to stamp out any dissenting opinion doesn't add any credence to your argument. I didn’t quote you as a personal attack by the way, your earlier post just happened to include some assertions that I find deeply troubling in the sims community that hold no benefit to either the players or the developers. The article I quoted examines the same issue I am talking about here, so I will let it speak for me. Otherwise, at this rate, we might as well be coauthoring a novel.
As @LiELF pointed out, the game is not a commision but a fixed product with moderate flexibility, that allows to include some requested features, but most definitely not all. I see people taking for granted that Sims developers listen and implement features as the game progresses. To be honest, I cannot name any other big title that frequently receives updates, much less substantial patches like what is coming in November. By release the base game is usually complete and gets bug fixes and minor updates, as DLC content is rolled out. Maybe it is the Sims DLC model, that pretty much requires an invested and active community over the years, or how the base game it self should be kept up with upcoming expansion packs, that allows for flexibility as the game progresses. But either way, it most definitely should not be taken for granted, that and the fact that people developing the game probably have a good idea where they want to take the end product.
I'm not trying to stamp out anyone's opinion, I just see a lot of faulty and problematic logic, so I was pointing it out.
If you quote me, I am going to further defend and explain my perspective. I just don't see how telling people to take responsibility for themselves is "troubling". People overhype, ignore the reality check from the devs, and then blame everyone else for their disappointment. Cautioning the community to keep themselves in check is perfectly rational. Part of doing that is preparing yourself for the disappointment that The Thing You Want Most is not going to be the next "small feature". That's all I was saying with that statement.
It's one thing to join the fun and speculate a little and guess what the new feature is, and then if it isn't anything that interests you to say so and move on. But it's entirely another thing to throw yourself into hype and convince yourself it's going to be a specific thing and ignore cautions and then rant at everyone else when it isn't what you had hoped for. So I also stand by my own statement. Preparing yourself for a little disappointment is not bad advice.
This isn't to say they should shape their future game packs or game features solely around our opinions because they can't please everyone, but I think a lot of simmers felt like the devs were ignoring them, especially in the beginning
Also, there’s this disconnect on the forum where people who don’t like supernaturals will pop into threads about stuff like “which supernatural would you like next” to comment that they only play realistic games and developing more supernaturals would be a waste of development time. I’ve never seen anybody say “freeing babies would be pointless, give me witches” or “who needs university when you could have werewolves” in those threads.
Yes, but the lady doth protest too much, methinks. Taking responsibility and lowing one’s expectations are quite different, you see. I advise you not to confuse one for the other, lest you suffer at your own peril. I wish you luck with on your long road of disappointment. There are at least three more years of it and I do not relish any of them, despite your previous interpretations of my opinion. I have hoped many times that this studio would pull through, and still do, but if the community insists on believing and propagating the assertions that you and many others espouse, then I don’t believe anything good can come from this line of thinking. When the same developers that have worshipped and then decried previous titles end up throwing TS4 under the bus several years from now, maybe then you will understand what I’ve been hinting at. They do not care about me, nor you or anyone else for that matter. They do not care about what any of their consumers want. If anything, they care about their influencers, but they are not paying customers. Until those relationships are no longer beneficial, and the keyboard warriors and useful mouthpieces stop shouting at one another, this community will continue on its downward decline, until some executive rules that The Sims isn’t a money maker anymore and closes its studio for good. The writing is on the wall, if you couldn’t see it already. Read between the lines and you will see it, too.
I will say that I agree with you, however, that preparing oneself for disappoint now is good advice.
Maybe if all of us were asking for that, EA would approve... I don't see why not!
We aren't all asking for it, though. : )
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