@HowGreatThouArt
True and not only that a chemesrty/compatibility system would also work into sims relationships in the long run. Just because two sims are flirty and are working out doesn't mean that once the flirty emotions end it would continue. Ultimately it would come down to if they actually get along on whether they'll even continue.
It's would be like real life. Two people can have a great experience with each other, everything is going perfectly, they are both into each other and flirty but as they get to know each other they realise the initial great meeting was just that a great meeting and there is nothing for them to build on.
@HowGreatThouArt
True and not only that a chemesrty/compatibility system would also work into sims relationships in the long run. Just because two sims are flirty and are working out doesn't mean that once the flirty emotions end it would continue. Ultimately it would come down to if they actually get along on whether they'll even continue.
It's would be like real life. Two people can have a great experience with each other, everything is going perfectly, they are both into each other and flirty but as they get to know each other they realise the initial great meeting was just that a great meeting and there is nothing for them to build on.
That's a great point.
I think, if implemented correctly, an attraction/compatability system could add so much depth to Sims and their relationships.
I guess I could see throwing one together to do something like give a flirty mood or enhance the rate at which relationship bars go up. (Or in the case of particularly bad chemistry, go down.)
However, with the way that few days of blitzing appropriate socials at someone is enough to make you BFFs/soulmates, I'd prefer there to be stronger mood and relationship mechanics first, so there's something stronger for the chemistry system to engage with.
I guess I could see throwing one together to do something like give a flirty mood or enhance the rate at which relationship bars go up. (Or in the case of particularly bad chemistry, go down.)
However, with the way that few days of blitzing appropriate socials at someone is enough to make you BFFs/soulmates, I'd prefer there to be stronger mood and relationship mechanics first, so there's something stronger for the chemistry system to engage with.
I agree.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I have an idea of why this can't include traits. For instance any Sim can gain charisma by telling a joke, or gaining a skill or some skill points just by talking in some manner. Though they could make a chemistry system based on traits or skills or emotions, (at least one included along with other things) it would be hard to keep one Sim from liking another if every Sim is gaining skills just by talking or cooking or whatever. It always bugged me when TS4 Sims would gain a skill by doing nothing, as soon as you added them to the game, bam! they had gained something just by telling a joke or whatever, and would auto do a mean interaction etc. If they built an attraction system on traits, most Sims would be attracted to most Sims.
Let's face it, there aren't that many traits to choose in TS4. Not even the buyable ones. We would have most of our Sims liking most Sims in the game and not much of a way to narrow it down.
Because emotions, traits and skills all overlap too much (and a huge complaint by many) and though they could build an attraction system using these things, it would mean most of our Sims would love anyone they came into contact with. Think on it.
That's not how attraction worked. When making a sim in the sims 2 you would pick what your sim was attracted to from options based solely on appearance, shallow but true. You could choose color of hair, makeup, jewelry, physically fit, vampire etc...I don't remember it ever being used for personality traits beside maybe music preference, it has been awhile since I played sims 2. Based off that, sims 4 could have the old attraction system just fine.
Call me silly but I think there is a hint of a chemistry/attraction system already.
Obviously there isn’t an overt one you can manipulate, which I would love, but I do find that sometimes if I have a sim who I want to get together with another sim, it’s hard. I mean you can force it but, for instance, I recently moved my sim into San Myshuno and downloaded a bunch of townies to fill her building with, and when I just let interactions play out, she hated one girl I thought would be a good friend for her.
But perhaps that is all in my head, I don’t know. There are some great ideas here when it comes to implementing this system. One of my favourite things in Sims 2 was taking my sim out to a dance club or bar and having them “scope the room” sometimes I hated who they picked haha.
Most likely the sim had the evil or mean trait. Usually that's the case when a sim naturally doesn't like another sim. They make mean people mean way too often.
The problem with the attraction system for me in the past is that I like to have full control of my sims. They always ended up attracted to everyone expect the sim I had planned for them. Sure, I was still able to get them together, but the story I had planned in my head just didn't play as smoothly. Especially in TS3 it felt totally random.
An attraction system based on traits might make sense at first, except that sometimes opposites attract. A tidy Sim might have a lot of arguments with a slob sim, but that shouldn't necessarily mean they don't feel attracted to each other.
It really would be nice if the system used in Sims 2 was brought back. The few times I have played TS4, it has been very difficult for me to find a compatible mate for my Sim. I really didn't play TS3 so I don't know what the attraction/chemistry system was like in that version.
I LOVED when, playing a Sim in S2 and having that Sim ask an NPC what they liked, seeing their reaction to my Sim or seeing that same NPC show attraction to someone else. This is what I wish would come back to the game in a GP or SP in the future.
Nah, I had a mother and son who after he became a teen started getting in to arguments. The mother was squeamish, snob, and flirty and her son was active and outgoing but for some reason they couldn't get along. She had no problem with her other son, his twin brother, who was a genius and ambitious.
Could there of been a conflict of traits, some chemesty system that was working against them, a bug? Idk but it makes me think there is some kind of system in place even if it' not obvious.
Edit: This was before Partenhood so there was no character values, or childhood phases at play.
The problem with the attraction system for me in the past is that I like to have full control of my sims. They always ended up attracted to everyone expect the sim I had planned for them. Sure, I was still able to get them together, but the story I had planned in my head just didn't play as smoothly. Especially in TS3 it felt totally random.
An attraction system based on traits might make sense at first, except that sometimes opposites attract. A tidy Sim might have a lot of arguments with a slob sim, but that shouldn't necessarily mean they don't feel attracted to each other.
I would hope that if the system was partially based on traits, the traits a Sim is attracted to would be randomly assigned as the Sim ages up, or you could just choose them yourself (or change them at any time using something like a less expensive Re-Traiting Potion). I like a sense of randomness in my game, so I wouldn't mind my Sims getting randomly assigned what they're attracted to, as long as there is also an option to change those factors without cheats. Or they could just bring back the randomize button for traits.
I have an idea of why this can't include traits. For instance any Sim can gain charisma by telling a joke, or gaining a skill or some skill points just by talking in some manner. Though they could make a chemistry system based on traits or skills or emotions, (at least one included along with other things) it would be hard to keep one Sim from liking another if every Sim is gaining skills just by talking or cooking or whatever. It always bugged me when TS4 Sims would gain a skill by doing nothing, as soon as you added them to the game, bam! they had gained something just by telling a joke or whatever, and would auto do a mean interaction etc. If they built an attraction system on traits, most Sims would be attracted to most Sims.
Let's face it, there aren't that many traits to choose in TS4. Not even the buyable ones. We would have most of our Sims liking most Sims in the game and not much of a way to narrow it down.
Because emotions, traits and skills all overlap too much (and a huge complaint by many) and though they could build an attraction system using these things, it would mean most of our Sims would love anyone they came into contact with. Think on it.
That's not how attraction worked. When making a sim in the sims 2 you would pick what your sim was attracted to from options based solely on appearance, shallow but true. You could choose color of hair, makeup, jewelry, physically fit, vampire etc...I don't remember it ever being used for personality traits beside maybe music preference, it has been awhile since I played sims 2. Based off that, sims 4 could have the old attraction system just fine.
I was speaking of how TS4 works. And though it may not be a trait, but a skill in TS2 such as high logic skill was what a Sim in TS2 could be attracted to and we set those in CAS. True it was added much later after Nightlife, maybe FreeTime. But my description you quoted is how TS4 plays and rather annoying. Another thing that would cause an attraction system based on traits to overlap too much would be the limited amount of traits a Sim is allowed. Only three in CAS. And players usually pick the ones they have an easier time with, so they may be using the same ones over and over when they build their Sims. Well, because trait slots are so limited, it stands to reason there would be too much overlap and a great deal of Sims would be attracted to a great deal of Sims. Because if a player wants to play a painter, they are going to give them the creative trait, and I would bet they do that often. And honestly there aren't that many (not even a handful compared to TS3) of traits to choose in CAS. So, people would be picking the usual ones they play and an attraction system build on the small amount of traits in TS4 would mean many Sims would be attracted to many Sims because of the limitations of traits. I don't play goofball because they aren't clumsy, they are more like not serious about anything. Some won't play slob, so their choices are very narrow. If they build one on traits (those in CAS) then it would be very limited in choices.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I have an idea of why this can't include traits. For instance any Sim can gain charisma by telling a joke, or gaining a skill or some skill points just by talking in some manner. Though they could make a chemistry system based on traits or skills or emotions, (at least one included along with other things) it would be hard to keep one Sim from liking another if every Sim is gaining skills just by talking or cooking or whatever. It always bugged me when TS4 Sims would gain a skill by doing nothing, as soon as you added them to the game, bam! they had gained something just by telling a joke or whatever, and would auto do a mean interaction etc. If they built an attraction system on traits, most Sims would be attracted to most Sims.
Let's face it, there aren't that many traits to choose in TS4. Not even the buyable ones. We would have most of our Sims liking most Sims in the game and not much of a way to narrow it down.
Because emotions, traits and skills all overlap too much (and a huge complaint by many) and though they could build an attraction system using these things, it would mean most of our Sims would love anyone they came into contact with. Think on it.
That's not how attraction worked. When making a sim in the sims 2 you would pick what your sim was attracted to from options based solely on appearance, shallow but true. You could choose color of hair, makeup, jewelry, physically fit, vampire etc...I don't remember it ever being used for personality traits beside maybe music preference, it has been awhile since I played sims 2. Based off that, sims 4 could have the old attraction system just fine.
I was speaking of how TS4 works. And though it may not be a trait, but a skill in TS2 such as high logic skill was what a Sim in TS2 could be attracted to and we set those in CAS. True it was added much later after Nightlife, maybe FreeTime. But my description you quoted is how TS4 plays and rather annoying. Another thing that would cause an attraction system based on traits to overlap too much would be the limited amount of traits a Sim is allowed. Only three in CAS. And players usually pick the ones they have an easier time with, so they may be using the same ones over and over when they build their Sims. Well, because trait slots are so limited, it stands to reason there would be too much overlap and a great deal of Sims would be attracted to a great deal of Sims. Because if a player wants to play a painter, they are going to give them the creative trait, and I would bet they do that often. And honestly there aren't that many (not even a handful compared to TS3) of traits to choose in CAS. So, people would be picking the usual ones they play and an attraction system build on the small amount of traits in TS4 would mean many Sims would be attracted to many Sims because of the limitations of traits. I don't play goofball because they aren't clumsy, they are more like not serious about anything. Some won't play slob, so their choices are very narrow. If they build one on traits (those in CAS) then it would be very limited in choices.
You're still focusing on traits. What if that was left out completely and sims could be attracted to appearance? Most all sims look very different. We could choose only those things for an attraction system. We could do that in TS4. My response was indeed about TS4 and I was aware yours is as well.
traits and zodiac for chemistry/compatibility, Appearance for attraction.
You don't need to know if someone likes Camping to find this person attractive. If you like black hair, blue eyes, and fit body type, then the people who have that are the ones you find most attractive. that neither means they find you attractive nor that you fit together as persons.
If one of you loves camping and the other can't stand being near tall grass, that doesn't really go together.
I have an idea of why this can't include traits. For instance any Sim can gain charisma by telling a joke, or gaining a skill or some skill points just by talking in some manner. Though they could make a chemistry system based on traits or skills or emotions, (at least one included along with other things) it would be hard to keep one Sim from liking another if every Sim is gaining skills just by talking or cooking or whatever. It always bugged me when TS4 Sims would gain a skill by doing nothing, as soon as you added them to the game, bam! they had gained something just by telling a joke or whatever, and would auto do a mean interaction etc. If they built an attraction system on traits, most Sims would be attracted to most Sims.
Let's face it, there aren't that many traits to choose in TS4. Not even the buyable ones. We would have most of our Sims liking most Sims in the game and not much of a way to narrow it down.
Because emotions, traits and skills all overlap too much (and a huge complaint by many) and though they could build an attraction system using these things, it would mean most of our Sims would love anyone they came into contact with. Think on it.
That's not how attraction worked. When making a sim in the sims 2 you would pick what your sim was attracted to from options based solely on appearance, shallow but true. You could choose color of hair, makeup, jewelry, physically fit, vampire etc...I don't remember it ever being used for personality traits beside maybe music preference, it has been awhile since I played sims 2. Based off that, sims 4 could have the old attraction system just fine.
I was speaking of how TS4 works. And though it may not be a trait, but a skill in TS2 such as high logic skill was what a Sim in TS2 could be attracted to and we set those in CAS. True it was added much later after Nightlife, maybe FreeTime. But my description you quoted is how TS4 plays and rather annoying. Another thing that would cause an attraction system based on traits to overlap too much would be the limited amount of traits a Sim is allowed. Only three in CAS. And players usually pick the ones they have an easier time with, so they may be using the same ones over and over when they build their Sims. Well, because trait slots are so limited, it stands to reason there would be too much overlap and a great deal of Sims would be attracted to a great deal of Sims. Because if a player wants to play a painter, they are going to give them the creative trait, and I would bet they do that often. And honestly there aren't that many (not even a handful compared to TS3) of traits to choose in CAS. So, people would be picking the usual ones they play and an attraction system build on the small amount of traits in TS4 would mean many Sims would be attracted to many Sims because of the limitations of traits. I don't play goofball because they aren't clumsy, they are more like not serious about anything. Some won't play slob, so their choices are very narrow. If they build one on traits (those in CAS) then it would be very limited in choices.
You're still focusing on traits. What if that was left out completely and sims could be attracted to appearance? Most all sims look very different. We could choose only those things for an attraction system. We could do that in TS4. My response was indeed about TS4 and I was aware yours is as well.
You can't build an attraction system with just physical attraction. Wouldn't you need more? That would only be one point that had been covered. Sure they could do it with just personal appearance markers but then they would love many Sims instead of a particular Sim. See? More than one Sim who had brown hair, blue eyes, and physically fit. That would mean they would love many Sims of that type. You would have to have more than just physical appearance to be able to narrow it down to one or a few.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I have an idea of why this can't include traits. For instance any Sim can gain charisma by telling a joke, or gaining a skill or some skill points just by talking in some manner. Though they could make a chemistry system based on traits or skills or emotions, (at least one included along with other things) it would be hard to keep one Sim from liking another if every Sim is gaining skills just by talking or cooking or whatever. It always bugged me when TS4 Sims would gain a skill by doing nothing, as soon as you added them to the game, bam! they had gained something just by telling a joke or whatever, and would auto do a mean interaction etc. If they built an attraction system on traits, most Sims would be attracted to most Sims.
Let's face it, there aren't that many traits to choose in TS4. Not even the buyable ones. We would have most of our Sims liking most Sims in the game and not much of a way to narrow it down.
Because emotions, traits and skills all overlap too much (and a huge complaint by many) and though they could build an attraction system using these things, it would mean most of our Sims would love anyone they came into contact with. Think on it.
That's not how attraction worked. When making a sim in the sims 2 you would pick what your sim was attracted to from options based solely on appearance, shallow but true. You could choose color of hair, makeup, jewelry, physically fit, vampire etc...I don't remember it ever being used for personality traits beside maybe music preference, it has been awhile since I played sims 2. Based off that, sims 4 could have the old attraction system just fine.
I was speaking of how TS4 works. And though it may not be a trait, but a skill in TS2 such as high logic skill was what a Sim in TS2 could be attracted to and we set those in CAS. True it was added much later after Nightlife, maybe FreeTime. But my description you quoted is how TS4 plays and rather annoying. Another thing that would cause an attraction system based on traits to overlap too much would be the limited amount of traits a Sim is allowed. Only three in CAS. And players usually pick the ones they have an easier time with, so they may be using the same ones over and over when they build their Sims. Well, because trait slots are so limited, it stands to reason there would be too much overlap and a great deal of Sims would be attracted to a great deal of Sims. Because if a player wants to play a painter, they are going to give them the creative trait, and I would bet they do that often. And honestly there aren't that many (not even a handful compared to TS3) of traits to choose in CAS. So, people would be picking the usual ones they play and an attraction system build on the small amount of traits in TS4 would mean many Sims would be attracted to many Sims because of the limitations of traits. I don't play goofball because they aren't clumsy, they are more like not serious about anything. Some won't play slob, so their choices are very narrow. If they build one on traits (those in CAS) then it would be very limited in choices.
You're still focusing on traits. What if that was left out completely and sims could be attracted to appearance? Most all sims look very different. We could choose only those things for an attraction system. We could do that in TS4. My response was indeed about TS4 and I was aware yours is as well.
You can't build an attraction system with just physical attraction. Wouldn't you need more? That would only be one point that had been covered. Sure they could do it with just personal appearance markers but then they would love many Sims instead of a particular Sim. See? More than one Sim who had brown hair, blue eyes, and physically fit. That would mean they would love many Sims of that type. You would have to have more than just physical appearance to be able to narrow it down to one or a few.
that is right. that is why I think there should be two systems that work together but independent of each other.
Looks determine if they find each other hot. (attraction)
traits determine if they fit together. (chemistry)
there are multiple ways how that could play out
1. they find each other hot
2. one finds the other hot, but the other is indifferent about the first one
3. both are indifferent about each other's looks (current way)
4. one finds the other hot, but the other finds the first one ugly.
5. one finds the other ugly and the other is indifferent about the first one.
6. they find each other ugly.
And for each of the six versions, there are other variations depending on if the characters are compatible or not.
that makes 12 different situations on how things are between them from the get-go.
And then there are the interactions that impact how the characters deal with the situation.
I want it more like in SIms 2 than SIms 3. A Sim would have interests that would matter for the attraction system, also they would be a little attracted to someone or super attracted. It had 3 lighting bolt symbols to show us how much a sim is attracted to another one and stuff like that.
Just use an Autonomy mod and you'll see that what The Sims 4 already has a chemistry much better than previous iterations, and yes, there definitely is a sort of system there, I'm confident of this because it used not to have one, either it's recent or maybe it was already there before but they tweaked it to show more. I noticed this because I've played with an Outgoing Sim and noticed that despite the trait and having a decent level in Charisma, there was still Sims who were hard to socialize to, and even with friendly interactions it resulted in Embarassed buffs.
The thing is, chemistry as it works in The Sims 2 and 3 does not make sense, that's not how it works in real life, you don't say "hi" to someone and then instantly know if that person is the love of your life. Also people have bad moments, in real life a Goofball could have Angry moments, it doesn't make sense that having a Goofball trait levies in Chemistry if the other Sim never sees the person actually behaving as a Goofball.
The Sims 4 is more about behaviour being defined not just by innate qualities but also by the moment, I like how Sims that otherwise could work together could just meet at the wrong place at the wrong time and because of bad moods they end up hating each other instead.
Now The Sims 2's Attraction though is a different deal, unlike Chemistry it would be for romance only and could represent, well, superficial attraction, so it would be tied to appearance, turn ons and turn offs (job, muscle/fat, clothes, etc), and maybe like The Sims 3 a random zoodiac sign to add some volatility to it. And BTW, Attraction is not a static thing since things that factor in it can change, like being turned on by muscled Sims and then that Sim becomes fat over time, could make for some very interesting situations like a couple slowly losing the "spark" over time.
@Grynn I remember really well that in SIms 2 you could get more "lightning bolt" symbols with a sim if you kept talking and trying to make a relationship work. I think that their first thought about another sim is purely based on the physical aspect of the other sims.
I want it more like in SIms 2 than SIms 3. A Sim would have interests that would matter for the attraction system, also they would be a little attracted to someone or super attracted. It had 3 lighting bolt symbols to show us how much a sim is attracted to another one and stuff like that.
Yeah, I would never be able to understand why a good Sim would ever be attracted to an evil Sim. Maybe some physical attration but if the trait is good then it would be absurd a good Sim would like an evil Sim. Because good would avoid evil.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
That system was so annoying in The Sims 3. The game constantly lets you know that your sim was attracted to almost every other sim in the world (at least for me).
It was more bearable in The Sims 2.
My answer to the title: It is impossible to put it into game without annoying some players.
I like all the suggestions here and would love to see them all incorporated. I honestly would love the system to be complex as possible lol -a full mixture of all that was mentioned. It would add such a mixture of randomness to my game, I may actually spend more time actually gameplaying. After all, if the sim does something I completely disapprove of with another sim, as their overlord, I will modify it with a cheat code lol.
I like all the suggestions here and would love to see them all incorporated. I honestly would love the system to be complex as possible lol -a full mixture of all that was mentioned. It would add such a mixture of randomness to my game, I may actually spend more time actually gameplaying. After all, if the sim does something I completely disapprove of with another sim, as their overlord, I will modify it with a cheat code lol.
If they even bother to add a cheat code for it.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I have an idea of why this can't include traits. For instance any Sim can gain charisma by telling a joke, or gaining a skill or some skill points just by talking in some manner. Though they could make a chemistry system based on traits or skills or emotions, (at least one included along with other things) it would be hard to keep one Sim from liking another if every Sim is gaining skills just by talking or cooking or whatever. It always bugged me when TS4 Sims would gain a skill by doing nothing, as soon as you added them to the game, bam! they had gained something just by telling a joke or whatever, and would auto do a mean interaction etc. If they built an attraction system on traits, most Sims would be attracted to most Sims.
Let's face it, there aren't that many traits to choose in TS4. Not even the buyable ones. We would have most of our Sims liking most Sims in the game and not much of a way to narrow it down.
Because emotions, traits and skills all overlap too much (and a huge complaint by many) and though they could build an attraction system using these things, it would mean most of our Sims would love anyone they came into contact with. Think on it.
Turn ons and turn offs are completely separate from traits and are included in the chemistry of sims. Like hair color, lifestate, body fat/muscle, career, skill level etc. So your argument really doesn't make much sense.
I have an idea of why this can't include traits. For instance any Sim can gain charisma by telling a joke, or gaining a skill or some skill points just by talking in some manner. Though they could make a chemistry system based on traits or skills or emotions, (at least one included along with other things) it would be hard to keep one Sim from liking another if every Sim is gaining skills just by talking or cooking or whatever. It always bugged me when TS4 Sims would gain a skill by doing nothing, as soon as you added them to the game, bam! they had gained something just by telling a joke or whatever, and would auto do a mean interaction etc. If they built an attraction system on traits, most Sims would be attracted to most Sims.
Let's face it, there aren't that many traits to choose in TS4. Not even the buyable ones. We would have most of our Sims liking most Sims in the game and not much of a way to narrow it down.
Because emotions, traits and skills all overlap too much (and a huge complaint by many) and though they could build an attraction system using these things, it would mean most of our Sims would love anyone they came into contact with. Think on it.
Turn ons and turn offs are completely separate from traits and are included in the chemistry of sims. Like hair color, lifestate, body fat/muscle, career, skill level etc. So your argument really doesn't make much sense.
Sure it does, because this game doesn't even have likes and dislikes does it, and what makes you think they would add those features to the atraction system? maybe not. It was based on the argument that traits and their buffs overlap too much with the buffs of the emotions which would make things more redundant. Of course they could make a more complex system but I doubt it.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I have an idea of why this can't include traits. For instance any Sim can gain charisma by telling a joke, or gaining a skill or some skill points just by talking in some manner. Though they could make a chemistry system based on traits or skills or emotions, (at least one included along with other things) it would be hard to keep one Sim from liking another if every Sim is gaining skills just by talking or cooking or whatever. It always bugged me when TS4 Sims would gain a skill by doing nothing, as soon as you added them to the game, bam! they had gained something just by telling a joke or whatever, and would auto do a mean interaction etc. If they built an attraction system on traits, most Sims would be attracted to most Sims.
Let's face it, there aren't that many traits to choose in TS4. Not even the buyable ones. We would have most of our Sims liking most Sims in the game and not much of a way to narrow it down.
Because emotions, traits and skills all overlap too much (and a huge complaint by many) and though they could build an attraction system using these things, it would mean most of our Sims would love anyone they came into contact with. Think on it.
Turn ons and turn offs are completely separate from traits and are included in the chemistry of sims. Like hair color, lifestate, body fat/muscle, career, skill level etc. So your argument really doesn't make much sense.
Sure it does, because this game doesn't even have likes and dislikes does it, and what makes you think they would add those features to the atraction system? maybe not. It was based on the argument that traits and their buffs overlap too much with the buffs of the emotions which would make things more redundant. Of course they could make a more complex system but I doubt it.
I wouldn't possibly want a chemistry system if it didn't include turn ons and offs, I wouldn't even buy the expansion/game pack. What's the point of adding a new system if it's worse than previous versions and has less detail?
That's not what's currently happening. I know retail/restaurant systems have their problems and are not a great example but fame, vampirism, clubs and character values are. I'm sure they would put effort into a chemistry/love system.
I have an idea of why this can't include traits. For instance any Sim can gain charisma by telling a joke, or gaining a skill or some skill points just by talking in some manner. Though they could make a chemistry system based on traits or skills or emotions, (at least one included along with other things) it would be hard to keep one Sim from liking another if every Sim is gaining skills just by talking or cooking or whatever. It always bugged me when TS4 Sims would gain a skill by doing nothing, as soon as you added them to the game, bam! they had gained something just by telling a joke or whatever, and would auto do a mean interaction etc. If they built an attraction system on traits, most Sims would be attracted to most Sims.
Let's face it, there aren't that many traits to choose in TS4. Not even the buyable ones. We would have most of our Sims liking most Sims in the game and not much of a way to narrow it down.
Because emotions, traits and skills all overlap too much (and a huge complaint by many) and though they could build an attraction system using these things, it would mean most of our Sims would love anyone they came into contact with. Think on it.
Turn ons and turn offs are completely separate from traits and are included in the chemistry of sims. Like hair color, lifestate, body fat/muscle, career, skill level etc. So your argument really doesn't make much sense.
Sure it does, because this game doesn't even have likes and dislikes does it, and what makes you think they would add those features to the atraction system? maybe not. It was based on the argument that traits and their buffs overlap too much with the buffs of the emotions which would make things more redundant. Of course they could make a more complex system but I doubt it.
I wouldn't possibly want a chemistry system if it didn't include turn ons and offs, I wouldn't even buy the expansion/game pack. What's the point of adding a new system if it's worse than previous versions and has less detail?
That's not what's currently happening. I know retail/restaurant systems have their problems and are not a great example but fame, vampirism, clubs and character values are. I'm sure they would put effort into a chemistry/love system.
O.K. but let's say one of the turn ons is insane trait. Do you realize more than half the homeless have the insane trait? They would have to do some fancy footwork to clean all that up.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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True and not only that a chemesrty/compatibility system would also work into sims relationships in the long run. Just because two sims are flirty and are working out doesn't mean that once the flirty emotions end it would continue. Ultimately it would come down to if they actually get along on whether they'll even continue.
It's would be like real life. Two people can have a great experience with each other, everything is going perfectly, they are both into each other and flirty but as they get to know each other they realise the initial great meeting was just that a great meeting and there is nothing for them to build on.
That's a great point.
I think, if implemented correctly, an attraction/compatability system could add so much depth to Sims and their relationships.
However, with the way that few days of blitzing appropriate socials at someone is enough to make you BFFs/soulmates, I'd prefer there to be stronger mood and relationship mechanics first, so there's something stronger for the chemistry system to engage with.
I agree.
That's not how attraction worked. When making a sim in the sims 2 you would pick what your sim was attracted to from options based solely on appearance, shallow but true. You could choose color of hair, makeup, jewelry, physically fit, vampire etc...I don't remember it ever being used for personality traits beside maybe music preference, it has been awhile since I played sims 2. Based off that, sims 4 could have the old attraction system just fine.
Most likely the sim had the evil or mean trait. Usually that's the case when a sim naturally doesn't like another sim. They make mean people mean way too often.
An attraction system based on traits might make sense at first, except that sometimes opposites attract. A tidy Sim might have a lot of arguments with a slob sim, but that shouldn't necessarily mean they don't feel attracted to each other.
I LOVED when, playing a Sim in S2 and having that Sim ask an NPC what they liked, seeing their reaction to my Sim or seeing that same NPC show attraction to someone else. This is what I wish would come back to the game in a GP or SP in the future.
Could there of been a conflict of traits, some chemesty system that was working against them, a bug? Idk but it makes me think there is some kind of system in place even if it' not obvious.
Edit: This was before Partenhood so there was no character values, or childhood phases at play.
I would hope that if the system was partially based on traits, the traits a Sim is attracted to would be randomly assigned as the Sim ages up, or you could just choose them yourself (or change them at any time using something like a less expensive Re-Traiting Potion). I like a sense of randomness in my game, so I wouldn't mind my Sims getting randomly assigned what they're attracted to, as long as there is also an option to change those factors without cheats. Or they could just bring back the randomize button for traits.
I was speaking of how TS4 works. And though it may not be a trait, but a skill in TS2 such as high logic skill was what a Sim in TS2 could be attracted to and we set those in CAS. True it was added much later after Nightlife, maybe FreeTime. But my description you quoted is how TS4 plays and rather annoying. Another thing that would cause an attraction system based on traits to overlap too much would be the limited amount of traits a Sim is allowed. Only three in CAS. And players usually pick the ones they have an easier time with, so they may be using the same ones over and over when they build their Sims. Well, because trait slots are so limited, it stands to reason there would be too much overlap and a great deal of Sims would be attracted to a great deal of Sims. Because if a player wants to play a painter, they are going to give them the creative trait, and I would bet they do that often. And honestly there aren't that many (not even a handful compared to TS3) of traits to choose in CAS. So, people would be picking the usual ones they play and an attraction system build on the small amount of traits in TS4 would mean many Sims would be attracted to many Sims because of the limitations of traits. I don't play goofball because they aren't clumsy, they are more like not serious about anything. Some won't play slob, so their choices are very narrow. If they build one on traits (those in CAS) then it would be very limited in choices.
You're still focusing on traits. What if that was left out completely and sims could be attracted to appearance? Most all sims look very different. We could choose only those things for an attraction system. We could do that in TS4. My response was indeed about TS4 and I was aware yours is as well.
You don't need to know if someone likes Camping to find this person attractive. If you like black hair, blue eyes, and fit body type, then the people who have that are the ones you find most attractive. that neither means they find you attractive nor that you fit together as persons.
If one of you loves camping and the other can't stand being near tall grass, that doesn't really go together.
You can't build an attraction system with just physical attraction. Wouldn't you need more? That would only be one point that had been covered. Sure they could do it with just personal appearance markers but then they would love many Sims instead of a particular Sim. See? More than one Sim who had brown hair, blue eyes, and physically fit. That would mean they would love many Sims of that type. You would have to have more than just physical appearance to be able to narrow it down to one or a few.
that is right. that is why I think there should be two systems that work together but independent of each other.
Looks determine if they find each other hot. (attraction)
traits determine if they fit together. (chemistry)
there are multiple ways how that could play out
1. they find each other hot
2. one finds the other hot, but the other is indifferent about the first one
3. both are indifferent about each other's looks (current way)
4. one finds the other hot, but the other finds the first one ugly.
5. one finds the other ugly and the other is indifferent about the first one.
6. they find each other ugly.
And for each of the six versions, there are other variations depending on if the characters are compatible or not.
that makes 12 different situations on how things are between them from the get-go.
And then there are the interactions that impact how the characters deal with the situation.
@Grynn I remember really well that in SIms 2 you could get more "lightning bolt" symbols with a sim if you kept talking and trying to make a relationship work. I think that their first thought about another sim is purely based on the physical aspect of the other sims.
Yeah, I would never be able to understand why a good Sim would ever be attracted to an evil Sim. Maybe some physical attration but if the trait is good then it would be absurd a good Sim would like an evil Sim. Because good would avoid evil.
It was more bearable in The Sims 2.
My answer to the title: It is impossible to put it into game without annoying some players.
If they even bother to add a cheat code for it.
Turn ons and turn offs are completely separate from traits and are included in the chemistry of sims. Like hair color, lifestate, body fat/muscle, career, skill level etc. So your argument really doesn't make much sense.
Sure it does, because this game doesn't even have likes and dislikes does it, and what makes you think they would add those features to the atraction system? maybe not. It was based on the argument that traits and their buffs overlap too much with the buffs of the emotions which would make things more redundant. Of course they could make a more complex system but I doubt it.
I wouldn't possibly want a chemistry system if it didn't include turn ons and offs, I wouldn't even buy the expansion/game pack. What's the point of adding a new system if it's worse than previous versions and has less detail?
That's not what's currently happening. I know retail/restaurant systems have their problems and are not a great example but fame, vampirism, clubs and character values are. I'm sure they would put effort into a chemistry/love system.
O.K. but let's say one of the turn ons is insane trait. Do you realize more than half the homeless have the insane trait? They would have to do some fancy footwork to clean all that up.