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Do We Really Need Another Three Years? TS4 at Four Years Old

Comments

  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,277 Member
    There are a lot of opinions in here, I hope everyone feels they have been able to express theirs without feeling ganged up on or anything like that. A lot of us have been playing The Sims since 2001 or before (games like Sim Ant, lol) and others started with TS4. What I think we all want is for developers to understand we probably al expect the next game to have weather, pets, family units, ways to relate Sims to each other in CAS like how many ways we could do that in TS3 (we can't even keep an uncle in TS2 once that child becomes an adult and moves out they are no longer kin and can date....) and in TS4 if a mom or dad dies their child is no longer kin to the aunt or uncle or cousins in that household..eww.
    But in TS3 they are so I hope they think about that as we have all probably at some point requested or wanted a deeper family unit. And to remain kin even if they move out.

    I think we all wanted larger areas or even open world or districts or hoods, without loading screens. Visit neighbor without a loading screen is probably something we all desired. I think everyone can agree about that and a way to place objects in those areas of common ground just like we had in 1,2 and 3. World editors(not world builder) matters to most of us. I also think more people would use a world editor if they had one, or a way to change the backdrops and remove trees or shrubs in TS4 to place a table or whatever (like we can the flea market table in TS4) ...but it's five years later and not sure that will ever happen. I think we all want larger living spaces, without predetermined world sets we can't edit at all. I think we all would prefer not to be told what type of building we have to build to get Sims to show up. Predetermined lots and their requirements or no Sims show up is annoying to builders, and to players. Lots we can't edit without some cheat is also annoying. Free up the non editable lots. I also think we have all wished for a way to put a vacant lot somewhere on the map without being told it's impossible. That harkens back to the days of TS1, we've grown way beyond that now.

    I think we all want toggles to turn on or off whatever it is that interrupts us and our own gameplay and story. I think we can all say three trait slots isn't quite enough if we want a truily unique Sim and that traits should determine what a Sim is feeling or doing and not some decor in a room. I think we want the Sim to know what is happening and why some of us feel just deleting a parent or friend is shallow, and doesn't prove to us this game has any depth when they don't even know the parent is missing. I think death is a big deal in life and it should be for Sims, and a little more empathy for each other or awareness of it probably matters to most players.

    Life isn't a bowl of cherries, or dress up and redo, so I think most players would like to see choices that have consequences (not text in a game) where the Sim has to over come those things or it's dire straights. We all make mistakes and bad choices, and I think we should go back to the roots of TS1 and find that sort of gameplay where you felt good you were able to figure out how that Sim could persevere over a bad choice. There can never be success without failure. And we are old enough and smart enough to figure those things out without hand holding instructions.



    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • SeloBeeSeloBee Posts: 89 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    There are a lot of opinions in here, I hope everyone feels they have been able to express theirs without feeling ganged up on or anything like that. A lot of us have been playing The Sims since 2001 or before (games like Sim Ant, lol) and others started with TS4. What I think we all want is for developers to understand we probably al expect the next game to have weather, pets, family units, ways to relate Sims to each other in CAS like how many ways we could do that in TS3 (we can't even keep an uncle in TS2 once that child becomes an adult and moves out they are no longer kin and can date....) and in TS4 if a mom or dad dies their child is no longer kin to the aunt or uncle or cousins in that household..eww.
    But in TS3 they are so I hope they think about that as we have all probably at some point requested or wanted a deeper family unit. And to remain kin even if they move out.

    I think we all wanted larger areas or even open world or districts or hoods, without loading screens. Visit neighbor without a loading screen is probably something we all desired. I think everyone can agree about that and a way to place objects in those areas of common ground just like we had in 1,2 and 3. World editors(not world builder) matters to most of us. I also think more people would use a world editor if they had one, or a way to change the backdrops and remove trees or shrubs in TS4 to place a table or whatever (like we can the flea market table in TS4) ...but it's five years later and not sure that will ever happen. I think we all want larger living spaces, without predetermined world sets we can't edit at all. I think we all would prefer not to be told what type of building we have to build to get Sims to show up. Predetermined lots and their requirements or no Sims show up is annoying to builders, and to players. Lots we can't edit without some cheat is also annoying. Free up the non editable lots. I also think we have all wished for a way to put a vacant lot somewhere on the map without being told it's impossible. That harkens back to the days of TS1, we've grown way beyond that now.

    I think we all want toggles to turn on or off whatever it is that interrupts us and our own gameplay and story. I think we can all say three trait slots isn't quite enough if we want a truily unique Sim and that traits should determine what a Sim is feeling or doing and not some decor in a room. I think we want the Sim to know what is happening and why some of us feel just deleting a parent or friend is shallow, and doesn't prove to us this game has any depth when they don't even know the parent is missing. I think death is a big deal in life and it should be for Sims, and a little more empathy for each other or awareness of it probably matters to most players.

    Life isn't a bowl of cherries, or dress up and redo, so I think most players would like to see choices that have consequences (not text in a game) where the Sim has to over come those things or it's dire straights. We all make mistakes and bad choices, and I think we should go back to the roots of TS1 and find that sort of gameplay where you felt good you were able to figure out how that Sim could persevere over a bad choice. There can never be success without failure. And we are old enough and smart enough to figure those things out without hand holding instructions.



    Very well said!!
    The world is quiet here
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 2,454 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    There are a lot of opinions in here, I hope everyone feels they have been able to express theirs without feeling ganged up on or anything like that. A lot of us have been playing The Sims since 2001 or before (games like Sim Ant, lol) and others started with TS4. What I think we all want is for developers to understand we probably al expect the next game to have weather, pets, family units, ways to relate Sims to each other in CAS like how many ways we could do that in TS3 (we can't even keep an uncle in TS2 once that child becomes an adult and moves out they are no longer kin and can date....) and in TS4 if a mom or dad dies their child is no longer kin to the aunt or uncle or cousins in that household..eww.
    But in TS3 they are so I hope they think about that as we have all probably at some point requested or wanted a deeper family unit. And to remain kin even if they move out.

    I think we all wanted larger areas or even open world or districts or hoods, without loading screens. Visit neighbor without a loading screen is probably something we all desired. I think everyone can agree about that and a way to place objects in those areas of common ground just like we had in 1,2 and 3. World editors(not world builder) matters to most of us. I also think more people would use a world editor if they had one, or a way to change the backdrops and remove trees or shrubs in TS4 to place a table or whatever (like we can the flea market table in TS4) ...but it's five years later and not sure that will ever happen. I think we all want larger living spaces, without predetermined world sets we can't edit at all. I think we all would prefer not to be told what type of building we have to build to get Sims to show up. Predetermined lots and their requirements or no Sims show up is annoying to builders, and to players. Lots we can't edit without some cheat is also annoying. Free up the non editable lots. I also think we have all wished for a way to put a vacant lot somewhere on the map without being told it's impossible. That harkens back to the days of TS1, we've grown way beyond that now.

    I think we all want toggles to turn on or off whatever it is that interrupts us and our own gameplay and story. I think we can all say three trait slots isn't quite enough if we want a truily unique Sim and that traits should determine what a Sim is feeling or doing and not some decor in a room. I think we want the Sim to know what is happening and why some of us feel just deleting a parent or friend is shallow, and doesn't prove to us this game has any depth when they don't even know the parent is missing. I think death is a big deal in life and it should be for Sims, and a little more empathy for each other or awareness of it probably matters to most players.

    Life isn't a bowl of cherries, or dress up and redo, so I think most players would like to see choices that have consequences (not text in a game) where the Sim has to over come those things or it's dire straights. We all make mistakes and bad choices, and I think we should go back to the roots of TS1 and find that sort of gameplay where you felt good you were able to figure out how that Sim could persevere over a bad choice. There can never be success without failure. And we are old enough and smart enough to figure those things out without hand holding instructions.



    I mainly agree, I just want to reiterate, though, that regarding any new world designs, they must include rotational play from the beginning. Without the ability to create my own Sims for my worlds/neighborhoods and the freedom to switch around and play whichever household I want, I absolutely will not support the game. I abandoned Sims 3 at base game because of this, and it was depressing because when World Adventures came out, I really wanted to play it but I wasn't going to support a game that didn't support me. I can forgive an art style that I don't like because I'll use CC. I can forgive some minor annoying bugs and design mechanics because I'll use mods from the community. But if they take away rotational play again, it's non-negotiable and I'll walk away. There is no reason to abandon an entire play style again. This goes for builders (world editing, terrain tools, well-rounded build modes etc), family players (toddlers, complete personalities, relationships, genealogy etc), deviants (believable Sim reactions, including the "negative" side, death and mourning, proper anger and enmity, evil, etc), designers (color wheels, or an expansive color grid, a program- even if it's an external one to ship with the game- that allows customization of furniture, CAS, and house designs and textures, etc), and others. They need to find a way to make these things work or they will start losing as many players as they gain.
  • nickibitswardnickibitsward Posts: 3,018 Member
    edited May 26
    LiELF wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    There are a lot of opinions in here, I hope everyone feels they have been able to express theirs without feeling ganged up on or anything like that. A lot of us have been playing The Sims since 2001 or before (games like Sim Ant, lol) and others started with TS4. What I think we all want is for developers to understand we probably al expect the next game to have weather, pets, family units, ways to relate Sims to each other in CAS like how many ways we could do that in TS3 (we can't even keep an uncle in TS2 once that child becomes an adult and moves out they are no longer kin and can date....) and in TS4 if a mom or dad dies their child is no longer kin to the aunt or uncle or cousins in that household..eww.
    But in TS3 they are so I hope they think about that as we have all probably at some point requested or wanted a deeper family unit. And to remain kin even if they move out.

    I think we all wanted larger areas or even open world or districts or hoods, without loading screens. Visit neighbor without a loading screen is probably something we all desired. I think everyone can agree about that and a way to place objects in those areas of common ground just like we had in 1,2 and 3. World editors(not world builder) matters to most of us. I also think more people would use a world editor if they had one, or a way to change the backdrops and remove trees or shrubs in TS4 to place a table or whatever (like we can the flea market table in TS4) ...but it's five years later and not sure that will ever happen. I think we all want larger living spaces, without predetermined world sets we can't edit at all. I think we all would prefer not to be told what type of building we have to build to get Sims to show up. Predetermined lots and their requirements or no Sims show up is annoying to builders, and to players. Lots we can't edit without some cheat is also annoying. Free up the non editable lots. I also think we have all wished for a way to put a vacant lot somewhere on the map without being told it's impossible. That harkens back to the days of TS1, we've grown way beyond that now.

    I think we all want toggles to turn on or off whatever it is that interrupts us and our own gameplay and story. I think we can all say three trait slots isn't quite enough if we want a truily unique Sim and that traits should determine what a Sim is feeling or doing and not some decor in a room. I think we want the Sim to know what is happening and why some of us feel just deleting a parent or friend is shallow, and doesn't prove to us this game has any depth when they don't even know the parent is missing. I think death is a big deal in life and it should be for Sims, and a little more empathy for each other or awareness of it probably matters to most players.

    Life isn't a bowl of cherries, or dress up and redo, so I think most players would like to see choices that have consequences (not text in a game) where the Sim has to over come those things or it's dire straights. We all make mistakes and bad choices, and I think we should go back to the roots of TS1 and find that sort of gameplay where you felt good you were able to figure out how that Sim could persevere over a bad choice. There can never be success without failure. And we are old enough and smart enough to figure those things out without hand holding instructions.



    I mainly agree, I just want to reiterate, though, that regarding any new world designs, they must include rotational play from the beginning. Without the ability to create my own Sims for my worlds/neighborhoods and the freedom to switch around and play whichever household I want, I absolutely will not support the game. I abandoned Sims 3 at base game because of this, and it was depressing because when World Adventures came out, I really wanted to play it but I wasn't going to support a game that didn't support me. I can forgive an art style that I don't like because I'll use CC. I can forgive some minor annoying bugs and design mechanics because I'll use mods from the community. But if they take away rotational play again, it's non-negotiable and I'll walk away. There is no reason to abandon an entire play style again. This goes for builders (world editing, terrain tools, well-rounded build modes etc), family players (toddlers, complete personalities, relationships, genealogy etc), deviants (believable Sim reactions, including the "negative" side, death and mourning, proper anger and enmity, evil, etc), designers (color wheels, or an expansive color grid, a program- even if it's an external one to ship with the game- that allows customization of furniture, CAS, and house designs and textures, etc), and others. They need to find a way to make these things work or they will start losing as many players as they gain.

    I had 20 families in Sims 3 I went back and forth between. Still do. It might not actually be "rotational" in the EA sense of the word, but it can be done and it worked for me.

    The main reasons I didn't move on to Sims 4, past the base game, is due to no open world, edit town or Create-a-Style. They are deal breakers for me.
    Post edited by nickibitsward on
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 2,454 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    There are a lot of opinions in here, I hope everyone feels they have been able to express theirs without feeling ganged up on or anything like that. A lot of us have been playing The Sims since 2001 or before (games like Sim Ant, lol) and others started with TS4. What I think we all want is for developers to understand we probably al expect the next game to have weather, pets, family units, ways to relate Sims to each other in CAS like how many ways we could do that in TS3 (we can't even keep an uncle in TS2 once that child becomes an adult and moves out they are no longer kin and can date....) and in TS4 if a mom or dad dies their child is no longer kin to the aunt or uncle or cousins in that household..eww.
    But in TS3 they are so I hope they think about that as we have all probably at some point requested or wanted a deeper family unit. And to remain kin even if they move out.

    I think we all wanted larger areas or even open world or districts or hoods, without loading screens. Visit neighbor without a loading screen is probably something we all desired. I think everyone can agree about that and a way to place objects in those areas of common ground just like we had in 1,2 and 3. World editors(not world builder) matters to most of us. I also think more people would use a world editor if they had one, or a way to change the backdrops and remove trees or shrubs in TS4 to place a table or whatever (like we can the flea market table in TS4) ...but it's five years later and not sure that will ever happen. I think we all want larger living spaces, without predetermined world sets we can't edit at all. I think we all would prefer not to be told what type of building we have to build to get Sims to show up. Predetermined lots and their requirements or no Sims show up is annoying to builders, and to players. Lots we can't edit without some cheat is also annoying. Free up the non editable lots. I also think we have all wished for a way to put a vacant lot somewhere on the map without being told it's impossible. That harkens back to the days of TS1, we've grown way beyond that now.

    I think we all want toggles to turn on or off whatever it is that interrupts us and our own gameplay and story. I think we can all say three trait slots isn't quite enough if we want a truily unique Sim and that traits should determine what a Sim is feeling or doing and not some decor in a room. I think we want the Sim to know what is happening and why some of us feel just deleting a parent or friend is shallow, and doesn't prove to us this game has any depth when they don't even know the parent is missing. I think death is a big deal in life and it should be for Sims, and a little more empathy for each other or awareness of it probably matters to most players.

    Life isn't a bowl of cherries, or dress up and redo, so I think most players would like to see choices that have consequences (not text in a game) where the Sim has to over come those things or it's dire straights. We all make mistakes and bad choices, and I think we should go back to the roots of TS1 and find that sort of gameplay where you felt good you were able to figure out how that Sim could persevere over a bad choice. There can never be success without failure. And we are old enough and smart enough to figure those things out without hand holding instructions.



    I mainly agree, I just want to reiterate, though, that regarding any new world designs, they must include rotational play from the beginning. Without the ability to create my own Sims for my worlds/neighborhoods and the freedom to switch around and play whichever household I want, I absolutely will not support the game. I abandoned Sims 3 at base game because of this, and it was depressing because when World Adventures came out, I really wanted to play it but I wasn't going to support a game that didn't support me. I can forgive an art style that I don't like because I'll use CC. I can forgive some minor annoying bugs and design mechanics because I'll use mods from the community. But if they take away rotational play again, it's non-negotiable and I'll walk away. There is no reason to abandon an entire play style again. This goes for builders (world editing, terrain tools, well-rounded build modes etc), family players (toddlers, complete personalities, relationships, genealogy etc), deviants (believable Sim reactions, including the "negative" side, death and mourning, proper anger and enmity, evil, etc), designers (color wheels, or an expansive color grid, a program- even if it's an external one to ship with the game- that allows customization of furniture, CAS, and house designs and textures, etc), and others. They need to find a way to make these things work or they will start losing as many players as they gain.

    I had 20 families in Sims 3 I went back and forth between. Still do. It might not actually be "rotational" in the EA sense of the word, but it can be done and it worked for me.

    The main reasons I didn't move on to Sims 4, past the base game, is due to no open world, edit town or Create-a-Style. They are my deal breakers for me.

    Yes, I know they added it in later on, and a few months ago I picked up some of the EPs for $5 each to try it out again. It's so unintuitive and I really dislike the compromises. You can tell the game wasn't originally designed for it by the way it plays. I plan to try it out again, though. Honestly, I miss Sims 2's version of rotational play, it was awesome and enjoyable, but unfortunately for me, I don't see them going back to the time freeze within households. But since they did eventually find a way to include rotational in an open world game, my hope is that, if they do return to some kind of open world, they find a way to include rotational play from the get go so that it's optimized and doesn't cost any progress. Otherwise, I'd rather they drop open world because that's not a proper sandbox game to me if I can't even play my game and control the Sims I want in the neighborhood.

    I'm kind of hoping that gaming tech has progressed enough that we can have the best of both worlds next time (haha, pun) and that, even if it's a smaller scale open world, that they can design it well enough to make both camps happy.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 21,924 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    There are a lot of opinions in here, I hope everyone feels they have been able to express theirs without feeling ganged up on or anything like that. A lot of us have been playing The Sims since 2001 or before (games like Sim Ant, lol) and others started with TS4. What I think we all want is for developers to understand we probably al expect the next game to have weather, pets, family units, ways to relate Sims to each other in CAS like how many ways we could do that in TS3 (we can't even keep an uncle in TS2 once that child becomes an adult and moves out they are no longer kin and can date....) and in TS4 if a mom or dad dies their child is no longer kin to the aunt or uncle or cousins in that household..eww.
    But in TS3 they are so I hope they think about that as we have all probably at some point requested or wanted a deeper family unit. And to remain kin even if they move out.

    I think we all wanted larger areas or even open world or districts or hoods, without loading screens. Visit neighbor without a loading screen is probably something we all desired. I think everyone can agree about that and a way to place objects in those areas of common ground just like we had in 1,2 and 3. World editors(not world builder) matters to most of us. I also think more people would use a world editor if they had one, or a way to change the backdrops and remove trees or shrubs in TS4 to place a table or whatever (like we can the flea market table in TS4) ...but it's five years later and not sure that will ever happen. I think we all want larger living spaces, without predetermined world sets we can't edit at all. I think we all would prefer not to be told what type of building we have to build to get Sims to show up. Predetermined lots and their requirements or no Sims show up is annoying to builders, and to players. Lots we can't edit without some cheat is also annoying. Free up the non editable lots. I also think we have all wished for a way to put a vacant lot somewhere on the map without being told it's impossible. That harkens back to the days of TS1, we've grown way beyond that now.

    I think we all want toggles to turn on or off whatever it is that interrupts us and our own gameplay and story. I think we can all say three trait slots isn't quite enough if we want a truily unique Sim and that traits should determine what a Sim is feeling or doing and not some decor in a room. I think we want the Sim to know what is happening and why some of us feel just deleting a parent or friend is shallow, and doesn't prove to us this game has any depth when they don't even know the parent is missing. I think death is a big deal in life and it should be for Sims, and a little more empathy for each other or awareness of it probably matters to most players.

    Life isn't a bowl of cherries, or dress up and redo, so I think most players would like to see choices that have consequences (not text in a game) where the Sim has to over come those things or it's dire straights. We all make mistakes and bad choices, and I think we should go back to the roots of TS1 and find that sort of gameplay where you felt good you were able to figure out how that Sim could persevere over a bad choice. There can never be success without failure. And we are old enough and smart enough to figure those things out without hand holding instructions.



    I mainly agree, I just want to reiterate, though, that regarding any new world designs, they must include rotational play from the beginning. Without the ability to create my own Sims for my worlds/neighborhoods and the freedom to switch around and play whichever household I want, I absolutely will not support the game. I abandoned Sims 3 at base game because of this, and it was depressing because when World Adventures came out, I really wanted to play it but I wasn't going to support a game that didn't support me. I can forgive an art style that I don't like because I'll use CC. I can forgive some minor annoying bugs and design mechanics because I'll use mods from the community. But if they take away rotational play again, it's non-negotiable and I'll walk away. There is no reason to abandon an entire play style again. This goes for builders (world editing, terrain tools, well-rounded build modes etc), family players (toddlers, complete personalities, relationships, genealogy etc), deviants (believable Sim reactions, including the "negative" side, death and mourning, proper anger and enmity, evil, etc), designers (color wheels, or an expansive color grid, a program- even if it's an external one to ship with the game- that allows customization of furniture, CAS, and house designs and textures, etc), and others. They need to find a way to make these things work or they will start losing as many players as they gain.

    I had 20 families in Sims 3 I went back and forth between. Still do. It might not actually be "rotational" in the EA sense of the word, but it can be done and it worked for me.

    The main reasons I didn't move on to Sims 4, past the base game, is due to no open world, edit town or Create-a-Style. They are my deal breakers for me.

    Yes, I know they added it in later on, and a few months ago I picked up some of the EPs for $5 each to try it out again. It's so unintuitive and I really dislike the compromises. You can tell the game wasn't originally designed for it by the way it plays. I plan to try it out again, though. Honestly, I miss Sims 2's version of rotational play, it was awesome and enjoyable, but unfortunately for me, I don't see them going back to the time freeze within households. But since they did eventually find a way to include rotational in an open world game, my hope is that, if they do return to some kind of open world, they find a way to include rotational play from the get go so that it's optimized and doesn't cost any progress. Otherwise, I'd rather they drop open world because that's not a proper sandbox game to me if I can't even play my game and control the Sims I want in the neighborhood.

    I'm kind of hoping that gaming tech has progressed enough that we can have the best of both worlds next time (haha, pun) and that, even if it's a smaller scale open world, that they can design it well enough to make both camps happy.
    Even though it is possible to switch between families in Sims 3 and play rotational that way, I think it’s undebatable it indeed can’t be compared to Sims 1 and 2’s rotational play. When you love that way of playing the game, Sims 3 simply indeed will be a problem. I agree the game clearly wasn’t designed to play different families alternately and I think the reason might be they weren’t aware people actually loved doing that. Story Progression was one of Sims 3’s selling points and SP is the opposite of playing rotational. What I wouldn’t agree with, is calling that a flaw. It’s clearly a choice. If not being able to play rotational (Sims 2 and 1 style) is a flaw, then not being able to play with universal aging and story progression (like in Sims 1 and 2) consequently should be considered a flaw as well. I don’t think it is. What I’ll never understand is, why technically it apparently is possible to add old school rotational play to Sims 3 (because NRaas did), but EA never implemented anything remotely catering rotational players.

    I don’t quite follow why an open world game can’t be a proper sandbox game by the way. Sandbox doesn’t mean being allowed to control every character, it means (I quote):

    “A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. In contrast to a progression-style game, a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks. Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels, a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish. A sandbox game is also known as an open-world or free-roaming game.”
  • Noree_DoreeNoree_Doree Posts: 1,275 Member
    Goldmoldar wrote: »
    EA/Maxis went to 64 Bit when MS and Apple abandoned 32 bit and not for the reasons some are thinking. Only time will tell if EA/Maxis do take advantage of 64 bit capabilities. EA/Maxis may still face limitations referencing the engine used and some capabilities rely on how well an task will adapt to the engine. So until I see some earth shaking features I will not be holding my breath.

    You're right. And I think that will also determine whether we really do need 3 more years as well. If they cannot take advantage of the conversion over to just 64-bit then what would be the point of continuing forward. I mean so of us already have reasons why we believe they shouldn't but it should really start opening up more eyes. I mean My eyes were slightly open and then that python update come and went and things still didn't change and It has me believing things will never change.
    CxDhQOn.gif
    "Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits, gerbits, vo gerbits!!!"
  • GGgkkgGGgkkg Posts: 222 Member
    Honestly, this is the reason I'd rather wait for 5 then have it rushed out. If it were to come out now or close to now, no doubt it'd be barebones, missing many things the fans want and likely super buggy. If EA feels the need to pad things out and milk 4 for as much money as they can, fine, I just want them to take enough time, effort, and consideration of the players to make 5 the awesome game it could turn out to be.
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 2,454 Member
    edited May 23
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    There are a lot of opinions in here, I hope everyone feels they have been able to express theirs without feeling ganged up on or anything like that. A lot of us have been playing The Sims since 2001 or before (games like Sim Ant, lol) and others started with TS4. What I think we all want is for developers to understand we probably al expect the next game to have weather, pets, family units, ways to relate Sims to each other in CAS like how many ways we could do that in TS3 (we can't even keep an uncle in TS2 once that child becomes an adult and moves out they are no longer kin and can date....) and in TS4 if a mom or dad dies their child is no longer kin to the aunt or uncle or cousins in that household..eww.
    But in TS3 they are so I hope they think about that as we have all probably at some point requested or wanted a deeper family unit. And to remain kin even if they move out.

    I think we all wanted larger areas or even open world or districts or hoods, without loading screens. Visit neighbor without a loading screen is probably something we all desired. I think everyone can agree about that and a way to place objects in those areas of common ground just like we had in 1,2 and 3. World editors(not world builder) matters to most of us. I also think more people would use a world editor if they had one, or a way to change the backdrops and remove trees or shrubs in TS4 to place a table or whatever (like we can the flea market table in TS4) ...but it's five years later and not sure that will ever happen. I think we all want larger living spaces, without predetermined world sets we can't edit at all. I think we all would prefer not to be told what type of building we have to build to get Sims to show up. Predetermined lots and their requirements or no Sims show up is annoying to builders, and to players. Lots we can't edit without some cheat is also annoying. Free up the non editable lots. I also think we have all wished for a way to put a vacant lot somewhere on the map without being told it's impossible. That harkens back to the days of TS1, we've grown way beyond that now.

    I think we all want toggles to turn on or off whatever it is that interrupts us and our own gameplay and story. I think we can all say three trait slots isn't quite enough if we want a truily unique Sim and that traits should determine what a Sim is feeling or doing and not some decor in a room. I think we want the Sim to know what is happening and why some of us feel just deleting a parent or friend is shallow, and doesn't prove to us this game has any depth when they don't even know the parent is missing. I think death is a big deal in life and it should be for Sims, and a little more empathy for each other or awareness of it probably matters to most players.

    Life isn't a bowl of cherries, or dress up and redo, so I think most players would like to see choices that have consequences (not text in a game) where the Sim has to over come those things or it's dire straights. We all make mistakes and bad choices, and I think we should go back to the roots of TS1 and find that sort of gameplay where you felt good you were able to figure out how that Sim could persevere over a bad choice. There can never be success without failure. And we are old enough and smart enough to figure those things out without hand holding instructions.



    I mainly agree, I just want to reiterate, though, that regarding any new world designs, they must include rotational play from the beginning. Without the ability to create my own Sims for my worlds/neighborhoods and the freedom to switch around and play whichever household I want, I absolutely will not support the game. I abandoned Sims 3 at base game because of this, and it was depressing because when World Adventures came out, I really wanted to play it but I wasn't going to support a game that didn't support me. I can forgive an art style that I don't like because I'll use CC. I can forgive some minor annoying bugs and design mechanics because I'll use mods from the community. But if they take away rotational play again, it's non-negotiable and I'll walk away. There is no reason to abandon an entire play style again. This goes for builders (world editing, terrain tools, well-rounded build modes etc), family players (toddlers, complete personalities, relationships, genealogy etc), deviants (believable Sim reactions, including the "negative" side, death and mourning, proper anger and enmity, evil, etc), designers (color wheels, or an expansive color grid, a program- even if it's an external one to ship with the game- that allows customization of furniture, CAS, and house designs and textures, etc), and others. They need to find a way to make these things work or they will start losing as many players as they gain.

    I had 20 families in Sims 3 I went back and forth between. Still do. It might not actually be "rotational" in the EA sense of the word, but it can be done and it worked for me.

    The main reasons I didn't move on to Sims 4, past the base game, is due to no open world, edit town or Create-a-Style. They are my deal breakers for me.

    Yes, I know they added it in later on, and a few months ago I picked up some of the EPs for $5 each to try it out again. It's so unintuitive and I really dislike the compromises. You can tell the game wasn't originally designed for it by the way it plays. I plan to try it out again, though. Honestly, I miss Sims 2's version of rotational play, it was awesome and enjoyable, but unfortunately for me, I don't see them going back to the time freeze within households. But since they did eventually find a way to include rotational in an open world game, my hope is that, if they do return to some kind of open world, they find a way to include rotational play from the get go so that it's optimized and doesn't cost any progress. Otherwise, I'd rather they drop open world because that's not a proper sandbox game to me if I can't even play my game and control the Sims I want in the neighborhood.

    I'm kind of hoping that gaming tech has progressed enough that we can have the best of both worlds next time (haha, pun) and that, even if it's a smaller scale open world, that they can design it well enough to make both camps happy.
    Even though it is possible to switch between families in Sims 3 and play rotational that way, I think it’s undebatable it indeed can’t be compared to Sims 1 and 2’s rotational play. When you love that way of playing the game, Sims 3 simply indeed will be a problem. I agree the game clearly wasn’t designed to play different families alternately and I think the reason might be they weren’t aware people actually loved doing that. Story Progression was one of Sims 3’s selling points and SP is the opposite of playing rotational. What I wouldn’t agree with, is calling that a flaw. It’s clearly a choice. If not being able to play rotational (Sims 2 and 1 style) is a flaw, then not being able to play with universal aging and story progression (like in Sims 1 and 2) consequently should be considered a flaw as well. I don’t think it is. What I’ll never understand is, why technically it apparently is possible to add old school rotational play to Sims 3 (because NRaas did), but EA never implemented anything remotely catering rotational players.

    I don’t quite follow why an open world game can’t be a proper sandbox game by the way. Sandbox doesn’t mean being allowed to control every character, it means (I quote):

    “A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. In contrast to a progression-style game, a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks. Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels, a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish. A sandbox game is also known as an open-world or free-roaming game.”

    Where did this quote come from? Because "minimal character limitations" definitely qualifies rotational play, as I see it. Also, when speaking of sandbox gameplay specifically in regards to The Sims, I think it has varying interpretations, but "sandbox" denotes a flexibility in gameplay that suits the player's preferences. So, in my case, rotational play. ;)

    **Also, I just need to add that I think you're inserting things in my post in your mind, because I never called story progression a "flaw". And you might want to reread my post altogether because I did not state that open world can't be a sandbox game. I specifically stated, "that's not a proper sandbox game to me if I can't even play my game and control the Sims I want in the neighborhood."

    I know you don't like when people speak out against open world, but you're trying way too hard to argue semantics and pick apart my statements. Please respect that my opinion and preferences are just different from yours. There is no "proper" way to define a Sims sandbox game, and there is no play style that is right or wrong. My point is that no matter how good a Sims open world development is, if it excludes rotational play, I will not enjoy the game and I will not support it. So I would like them to seriously consider never eliminating this play style again because I would like to continue to play it. My opinion is not going to change.
    Post edited by LiELF on
  • ClarionOfJoyClarionOfJoy Posts: 367 Member
    edited May 24
    LiELF wrote: »
    My point is that no matter how good a Sims open world development is, if it excludes rotational play, I will not enjoy the game and I will not support it. So I would like them to seriously consider never eliminating this play style again because I would like to continue to play it. My opinion is not going to change.

    That's not true. TS3 open world allows for rotational play with the NRAAS Story Progression mod. There are a whole bunch of settings that you can set to make sure it doesn't do anything you don't want it to when you switch active mode to another sim. Your sims won't break up their current relationships, change jobs or work on new skills, won't move to another house, etc. if you don't want them to, until you decide yourself. It is extensive (which is good for rotational players because it gives you a great degree of control), but @Igazor and quite a few other TS3 simmers know and can help you with that as these are all rotational players on TS3. All you need to do is ask.

    So it IS possible to play TS3 rotationally and we have TS3 rotational players that can prove that.
    Post edited by ClarionOfJoy on
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,277 Member
    edited May 24
    I'm a rotational player as in TS1 style. I have to play the whole hood/world when my many personalities kick in. :p One minute I feel I need an evil Sim, or a very nice Sim, or a different more logical Sim, or a very parnoid Sim and on and on. I have been jumping around since 2000. And I want the game to leave my Sims (I am playing) alone. I expect they will be right how I left them when I get back to them. No hidden romances going on while I was away. I never found it weird that I would see my Sim out when I was playing another. It seemed perfectly logical to me, lol, as I'm a huge fan of that wibbly, wobbly timey, whimey continuim thing. :D

    I find things in any of these games as flaws because they all have had something about them that annoyed me or I wanted to change about play styles or mechanics.

    In TS1 I would wish, can't I just go to Betty Newbie's house and visit and see what her and Bob are doing? And I also wished, can't I just see my other Sims house (maybe the Goths) next door?

    TS2 answered the seeing neighbors' houses. But I still couldn't visit. But now, my other Sims were passing my Sims house a lot more often than in TS1 and I could grab them and invite them in.

    And there were days while I was looking out my Sims' windows I wished that I could see the hood's sail boats (which are animated) out on the water which I could see while I was in neighborhood view. TS3 answered that. And visit neighbor. It was an improvement and I still want to create all that in TS2.

    TS4 has many walk bys, and small open spaces, and visit neighbor and neighbors visiting my Sims just as TS2, and TSe3 had, but for everything gained there is always something lost.

    Because while I wished for the things in one and two, I had to give up rotational play as I understood it. Not until story progression had a toggle in a patch in TS3 could I dare leave one household for another and I would also have to keep aging off if I didn't want to miss something.

    TS4 has done the same thing to rotational players in regard to SP puts their Sims in fake relationships and other things like naming their Sim kids, which to rotational players is a horror. lol And we don't even have an option like in TS3 to turn it off. But with that said I would keep the aging options from TS4, for all of them, since I can age one family and not another or all at the same time or whatever, And longer lives. That was a good idea for TS4, and I do wish I had those options when I replay the older games.


    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • ClarionOfJoyClarionOfJoy Posts: 367 Member
    edited May 24
    Cinebar wrote: »
    TS4 has many walk bys, and small open spaces, and visit neighbor and neighbors visiting my Sims just as TS2, and TSe3 had, but for everything gained there is always something lost.

    Because while I wished for the things in one and two, I had to give up rotational play as I understood it. Not until story progression had a toggle in a patch in TS3 could I dare leave one household for another and I would also have to keep aging off if I didn't want to miss something.

    TS4 has done the same thing to rotational players in regard to SP puts their Sims in fake relationships and other things like naming their Sim kids, which to rotational players is a horror. lol And we don't even have an option like in TS3 to turn it off. But with that said I would keep the aging options from TS4, for all of them, since I can age one family and not another or all at the same time or whatever, And longer lives. That was a good idea for TS4, and I do wish I had those options when I replay the older games.

    I do the same thing as you do in my TS3 gameplay. I turn off aging to get certain things done. When I feel satisfied that all the households I'm playing have done everything they needed to do at that stage, I turn it on again and play them until everyone in the households I've played aged up. Then I turn it off again. I'm especially mindful of my elderly sims. I make sure that all the rest of my households visit with the elderly before they pass away. :'(

    But really, I much prefer the rotational play of TS3 to any of the other iterations because the whole town remains vibrant - people continue to work and do the things you want them to do (you can even assign the skills/hobbies you want for them in MasterController), remain in their current home and remain in the relationships you want, whether you turn aging off or on, but without any surprises that you don't want!

    Colony challenges in TS3 are very fun! Those challenges are actually rotational gameplay because you start with an empty world and fill it up household by household, generation by generation, where you can control who pairs up with who for each generation.

  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,412 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    My point is that no matter how good a Sims open world development is, if it excludes rotational play, I will not enjoy the game and I will not support it. So I would like them to seriously consider never eliminating this play style again because I would like to continue to play it. My opinion is not going to change.

    That's not true. TS3 open world allows for rotational play with the NRAAS Story Progression mod. There are a whole bunch of settings that you can set to make sure it doesn't do anything you don't want it to when you switch active mode to another sim. Your sims won't break up their current relationships, change jobs or work on new skills, won't move to another house, etc. if you don't want them to, until you decide yourself. It is extensive (which is good for rotational players because it gives you a great degree of control), but @Igazor and quite a few other TS3 simmers know and can help you with that as these are all rotational players on TS3. All you need to do is ask.

    So it IS possible to play TS3 rotationally and we have TS3 rotational players that can prove that.

    I’m going to jump in here and kind of say this post isn’t the least bit helpful or constructive to the convo happening. Saying something is totally possible shouldn’t come with the caveat that you have to install 3rd party mods to make it possible.
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 2,454 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    My point is that no matter how good a Sims open world development is, if it excludes rotational play, I will not enjoy the game and I will not support it. So I would like them to seriously consider never eliminating this play style again because I would like to continue to play it. My opinion is not going to change.

    That's not true. TS3 open world allows for rotational play with the NRAAS Story Progression mod. There are a whole bunch of settings that you can set to make sure it doesn't do anything you don't want it to when you switch active mode to another sim. Your sims won't break up their current relationships, change jobs or work on new skills, won't move to another house, etc. if you don't want them to, until you decide yourself. It is extensive (which is good for rotational players because it gives you a great degree of control), but @Igazor and quite a few other TS3 simmers know and can help you with that as these are all rotational players on TS3. All you need to do is ask.

    So it IS possible to play TS3 rotationally and we have TS3 rotational players that can prove that.

    I'm sorry, but what isn't true? I think you misunderstood my post and missed my previous one where I acknowledged that Sims 3 added rotational play and I played it and didn't enjoy it, but plan to try it out again.

    The post that you quoted is actually referring to future iterations. I referenced Sims 3 because it initially did release without any rotational play in the base game and it wasn't designed for it. That's why I did not support Sims 3, because I couldn't play it. So I was saying that future games must include rotational play in the base game or I won't buy them. I especially see no reason why they should exclude rotational play in Sims 5 since they eventually added it into Sims 3 and included it in Sims 4. It would seem that they realized halfway through Sims 3 that there was a demand for it and that they had betrayed a whole segment of the player base by eliminating their play style. So hopefully they won't make that mistake again. But this is EA, so you never know.

  • ClarionOfJoyClarionOfJoy Posts: 367 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    My point is that no matter how good a Sims open world development is, if it excludes rotational play, I will not enjoy the game and I will not support it. So I would like them to seriously consider never eliminating this play style again because I would like to continue to play it. My opinion is not going to change.

    That's not true. TS3 open world allows for rotational play with the NRAAS Story Progression mod. There are a whole bunch of settings that you can set to make sure it doesn't do anything you don't want it to when you switch active mode to another sim. Your sims won't break up their current relationships, change jobs or work on new skills, won't move to another house, etc. if you don't want them to, until you decide yourself. It is extensive (which is good for rotational players because it gives you a great degree of control), but @Igazor and quite a few other TS3 simmers know and can help you with that as these are all rotational players on TS3. All you need to do is ask.

    So it IS possible to play TS3 rotationally and we have TS3 rotational players that can prove that.

    I’m going to jump in here and kind of say this post isn’t the least bit helpful or constructive to the convo happening. Saying something is totally possible shouldn’t come with the caveat that you have to install 3rd party mods to make it possible.


    But what it does prove is that TS3 is so moddable that it allows for adding in gameplay such as rotational, totally increasing the flexibility of this game and it's player types. You can't even do that in TS4. Heck, you can't do a LOT of things TS4 that you can in TS3 (or TS2 or even TS1).

  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 2,454 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    My point is that no matter how good a Sims open world development is, if it excludes rotational play, I will not enjoy the game and I will not support it. So I would like them to seriously consider never eliminating this play style again because I would like to continue to play it. My opinion is not going to change.

    That's not true. TS3 open world allows for rotational play with the NRAAS Story Progression mod. There are a whole bunch of settings that you can set to make sure it doesn't do anything you don't want it to when you switch active mode to another sim. Your sims won't break up their current relationships, change jobs or work on new skills, won't move to another house, etc. if you don't want them to, until you decide yourself. It is extensive (which is good for rotational players because it gives you a great degree of control), but @Igazor and quite a few other TS3 simmers know and can help you with that as these are all rotational players on TS3. All you need to do is ask.

    So it IS possible to play TS3 rotationally and we have TS3 rotational players that can prove that.

    I’m going to jump in here and kind of say this post isn’t the least bit helpful or constructive to the convo happening. Saying something is totally possible shouldn’t come with the caveat that you have to install 3rd party mods to make it possible.


    But what it does prove is that TS3 is so moddable that it allows for adding in gameplay such as rotational, totally increasing the flexibility of this game and it's player types. You can't even do that in TS4. Heck, you can't do a LOT of things TS4 that you can in TS3 (or TS2 or even TS1).

    What does that have to do with the conversation? Sims 3's development is over.
  • ApparentlyAwesomeApparentlyAwesome Posts: 1,297 Member
    I could be wrong but I think the point is that if modders can pull of reintroducing and/or improving certain features, why can't the actual creators of the game do so as well. It's possible to do but they didn't do it.

    That's one of my biggest issues with The Sims games as they go on. I don't understand why we can't get straight out improvement instead of improve this aspect over here, forget about that aspect over there. The groundwork is there for every new iteration, yet we can't get the good, new, and improved in one game. Imagine if they implemented the things that made rotational play good for the past 4 iterations all in the next one plus new things to aid rotational play.

    Also, this is why I wonder about just how well things will go when they're just 64 bit. I've read discussions in the past about 64 bit but it was players who wanted Sims 3 64 bit and the game was already over with. Sims 4 is still active though so I'm curious how much 64 bit would improve Sims 4. But I'm less concerned about the technicality and more about their mentality. The game should run smoother which is great but who's to say anything else will change in regards to what they do? Things have clearly been possible before because modders have pulled them off, but who's to say the devs will do it just because it is?
    vQfKOG8.jpg
  • luvdasims55luvdasims55 Posts: 3,289 Member
    I could be wrong but I think the point is that if modders can pull of reintroducing and/or improving certain features, why can't the actual creators of the game do so as well. It's possible to do but they didn't do it.

    That's one of my biggest issues with The Sims games as they go on. I don't understand why we can't get straight out improvement instead of improve this aspect over here, forget about that aspect over there. The groundwork is there for every new iteration, yet we can't get the good, new, and improved in one game. Imagine if they implemented the things that made rotational play good for the past 4 iterations all in the next one plus new things to aid rotational play.

    Also, this is why I wonder about just how well things will go when they're just 64 bit. I've read discussions in the past about 64 bit but it was players who wanted Sims 3 64 bit and the game was already over with. Sims 4 is still active though so I'm curious how much 64 bit would improve Sims 4. But I'm less concerned about the technicality and more about their mentality. The game should run smoother which is great but who's to say anything else will change in regards to what they do? Things have clearly been possible before because modders have pulled them off, but who's to say the devs will do it just because it is?

    I could also be wrong, but my impression is that modders have more time to devote to developing their mod, whereas the devs are under a strict budget timewise.

    Why don't we have doorbells?
  • ClarionOfJoyClarionOfJoy Posts: 367 Member
    edited May 24
    LiELF wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but what isn't true? I think you misunderstood my post and missed my previous one where I acknowledged that Sims 3 added rotational play and I played it and didn't enjoy it, but plan to try it out again.

    The post that you quoted is actually referring to future iterations. I referenced Sims 3 because it initially did release without any rotational play in the base game and it wasn't designed for it. That's why I did not support Sims 3, because I couldn't play it. So I was saying that future games must include rotational play in the base game or I won't buy them. I especially see no reason why they should exclude rotational play in Sims 5 since they eventually added it into Sims 3 and included it in Sims 4. It would seem that they realized halfway through Sims 3 that there was a demand for it and that they had betrayed a whole segment of the player base by eliminating their play style. So hopefully they won't make that mistake again. But this is EA, so you never know.

    Yeah, rotational play might not be up to what anyone hopes for in TS5 as that seems to be the the way Maxis works lately. I'm not happy about TS4's version of rotational play at all as one can't really customize it like in TS3 with mods. Maybe if the TS5 devs take a look at the NRAAS Story Progression mod for TS3, they might learn from that and incorporate ideas from it.

    I really hope that you do try rotational play in TS3 again, and when you do, please try it with the NRAAS Story Progression mod. It really is great!

    I think the reason why some people can't play rotationally in TS3 is because there's a lot more to consider since everything is operating in real-time. If your active houseshold is a whole family, then it takes some getting used to having to keep track of all of them at the same time when they are all in a different place each, and each doing different things. I wasn't used to this at first myself coming from TS2 and it WAS difficult keeping my inactive sims doing what I wanted them to do, but I eventually did get used to managing a full household all at the same time. And once I began using the SP mod, managing all the households in my rotational play was just vastly so much more manageable!

    The SP mod has a lot of settings, so if you do decide to try it, by all means ask us in the TS3 section for any help or at the NRAAS Story Progression web page, like which settings to use for the whole variety of things you'll allow or won't allow a sim to do when not the active sim. And once those settings are in place, you don't really have to deal with them much after that unless you want to change something.

    Also, if you're having trouble keeping track of your sims in real-time, you can ask for tips in the TS3 section as well, or for anything else! TS3 simmers love and know our game and we'll gladly help!

  • ClarionOfJoyClarionOfJoy Posts: 367 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    My point is that no matter how good a Sims open world development is, if it excludes rotational play, I will not enjoy the game and I will not support it. So I would like them to seriously consider never eliminating this play style again because I would like to continue to play it. My opinion is not going to change.

    That's not true. TS3 open world allows for rotational play with the NRAAS Story Progression mod. There are a whole bunch of settings that you can set to make sure it doesn't do anything you don't want it to when you switch active mode to another sim. Your sims won't break up their current relationships, change jobs or work on new skills, won't move to another house, etc. if you don't want them to, until you decide yourself. It is extensive (which is good for rotational players because it gives you a great degree of control), but @Igazor and quite a few other TS3 simmers know and can help you with that as these are all rotational players on TS3. All you need to do is ask.

    So it IS possible to play TS3 rotationally and we have TS3 rotational players that can prove that.

    I’m going to jump in here and kind of say this post isn’t the least bit helpful or constructive to the convo happening. Saying something is totally possible shouldn’t come with the caveat that you have to install 3rd party mods to make it possible.


    But what it does prove is that TS3 is so moddable that it allows for adding in gameplay such as rotational, totally increasing the flexibility of this game and it's player types. You can't even do that in TS4. Heck, you can't do a LOT of things TS4 that you can in TS3 (or TS2 or even TS1).

    What does that have to do with the conversation? Sims 3's development is over.

    Weren't you complaining that Maxis totally left out the rotational players? Wasn't that part of the conversation? I just pointed out that the way Maxis developed TS3 made it flexible to accommodate for playing styles that weren't included at first, such as rotational. Which shows that Maxis wasn't entirely thoughtless at all when they were designing TS3. That's pretty amazing since TS3's development IS over and has been for several years that its gameplay can still be expanded!

    Off topic but still fun to note - another game style that was added to TS3 was shooting action gameplay with the gun mod. It's often used in TS3 zombie apocalypse challenges and mafia careers! That's not even possible in TS4 because your sims will just keep running into loading screen after loading screen hunting down zombies and or mafia targets, unlike in TS3's open world. In TS3's open world, it also makes it possible to shoot a target in another lot far away. Pretty amazing! Can TS4 do that?

  • SimburianSimburian Posts: 3,922 Member
    edited May 24
    Deleted.
  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 10,098 Member
    edited May 24
    LiELF wrote: »
    My point is that no matter how good a Sims open world development is, if it excludes rotational play, I will not enjoy the game and I will not support it. So I would like them to seriously consider never eliminating this play style again because I would like to continue to play it. My opinion is not going to change.

    That's not true. TS3 open world allows for rotational play with the NRAAS Story Progression mod. There are a whole bunch of settings that you can set to make sure it doesn't do anything you don't want it to when you switch active mode to another sim. Your sims won't break up their current relationships, change jobs or work on new skills, won't move to another house, etc. if you don't want them to, until you decide yourself. It is extensive (which is good for rotational players because it gives you a great degree of control), but @Igazor and quite a few other TS3 simmers know and can help you with that as these are all rotational players on TS3. All you need to do is ask.

    So it IS possible to play TS3 rotationally and we have TS3 rotational players that can prove that.

    I’m going to jump in here and kind of say this post isn’t the least bit helpful or constructive to the convo happening. Saying something is totally possible shouldn’t come with the caveat that you have to install 3rd party mods to make it possible.

    I do agree but for some if EA/Maxis will not do it then why not an mod. Even though I do not use mods I do say thank goodness for some of them as they are useful until EA/Maxis updates the game and then problems start up. I do not care for core mods for I hate uninstalling and reinstalling.
    Post edited by Goldmoldar on
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  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,277 Member
    edited May 24
    Goldmoldar wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    My point is that no matter how good a Sims open world development is, if it excludes rotational play, I will not enjoy the game and I will not support it. So I would like them to seriously consider never eliminating this play style again because I would like to continue to play it. My opinion is not going to change.

    That's not true. TS3 open world allows for rotational play with the NRAAS Story Progression mod. There are a whole bunch of settings that you can set to make sure it doesn't do anything you don't want it to when you switch active mode to another sim. Your sims won't break up their current relationships, change jobs or work on new skills, won't move to another house, etc. if you don't want them to, until you decide yourself. It is extensive (which is good for rotational players because it gives you a great degree of control), but @Igazor and quite a few other TS3 simmers know and can help you with that as these are all rotational players on TS3. All you need to do is ask.

    So it IS possible to play TS3 rotationally and we have TS3 rotational players that can prove that.

    I’m going to jump in here and kind of say this post isn’t the least bit helpful or constructive to the convo happening. Saying something is totally possible shouldn’t come with the caveat that you have to install 3rd party mods to make it possible.

    I do agree but for some if EA/Maxis will not do it then why not an mod. Even though I do not use mods I do say thank goodness for some of them as they are useful until EA/Maxis ypdates the game and then problems start up. I do not care for core mods for I hate uninstalling and reinstalling.

    I normally don't use mods that change gameplay in a way that isn't already there. I'm not against modding any of these games, I use a few, but I feel though TS4 is supposed to be very friendly to mods it's not. Having to update a game monthly and wait on mod updates has literally been a pain in the rear, and how anyone can see that as mod friendly is beyond me. Live service is rather annoying in my opinion, and a dread and if something isn't broke in game it will be next month etc.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 5,412 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    My point is that no matter how good a Sims open world development is, if it excludes rotational play, I will not enjoy the game and I will not support it. So I would like them to seriously consider never eliminating this play style again because I would like to continue to play it. My opinion is not going to change.

    That's not true. TS3 open world allows for rotational play with the NRAAS Story Progression mod. There are a whole bunch of settings that you can set to make sure it doesn't do anything you don't want it to when you switch active mode to another sim. Your sims won't break up their current relationships, change jobs or work on new skills, won't move to another house, etc. if you don't want them to, until you decide yourself. It is extensive (which is good for rotational players because it gives you a great degree of control), but @Igazor and quite a few other TS3 simmers know and can help you with that as these are all rotational players on TS3. All you need to do is ask.

    So it IS possible to play TS3 rotationally and we have TS3 rotational players that can prove that.

    I’m going to jump in here and kind of say this post isn’t the least bit helpful or constructive to the convo happening. Saying something is totally possible shouldn’t come with the caveat that you have to install 3rd party mods to make it possible.


    But what it does prove is that TS3 is so moddable that it allows for adding in gameplay such as rotational, totally increasing the flexibility of this game and it's player types. You can't even do that in TS4. Heck, you can't do a LOT of things TS4 that you can in TS3 (or TS2 or even TS1).

    People have made new gameplay for 4 with mods. MCCC modded in story progression for crying out loud. There’s really nothing to prove.
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 2,454 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    My point is that no matter how good a Sims open world development is, if it excludes rotational play, I will not enjoy the game and I will not support it. So I would like them to seriously consider never eliminating this play style again because I would like to continue to play it. My opinion is not going to change.

    That's not true. TS3 open world allows for rotational play with the NRAAS Story Progression mod. There are a whole bunch of settings that you can set to make sure it doesn't do anything you don't want it to when you switch active mode to another sim. Your sims won't break up their current relationships, change jobs or work on new skills, won't move to another house, etc. if you don't want them to, until you decide yourself. It is extensive (which is good for rotational players because it gives you a great degree of control), but @Igazor and quite a few other TS3 simmers know and can help you with that as these are all rotational players on TS3. All you need to do is ask.

    So it IS possible to play TS3 rotationally and we have TS3 rotational players that can prove that.

    I’m going to jump in here and kind of say this post isn’t the least bit helpful or constructive to the convo happening. Saying something is totally possible shouldn’t come with the caveat that you have to install 3rd party mods to make it possible.


    But what it does prove is that TS3 is so moddable that it allows for adding in gameplay such as rotational, totally increasing the flexibility of this game and it's player types. You can't even do that in TS4. Heck, you can't do a LOT of things TS4 that you can in TS3 (or TS2 or even TS1).

    What does that have to do with the conversation? Sims 3's development is over.

    Weren't you complaining that Maxis totally left out the rotational players? Wasn't that part of the conversation? I just pointed out that the way Maxis developed TS3 made it flexible to accommodate for playing styles that weren't included at first, such as rotational. Which shows that Maxis wasn't entirely thoughtless at all when they were designing TS3. That's pretty amazing since TS3's development IS over and has been for several years that its gameplay can still be expanded!

    Off topic but still fun to note - another game style that was added to TS3 was shooting action gameplay with the gun mod. It's often used in TS3 zombie apocalypse challenges and mafia careers! That's not even possible in TS4 because your sims will just keep running into loading screen after loading screen hunting down zombies and or mafia targets, unlike in TS3's open world. In TS3's open world, it also makes it possible to shoot a target in another lot far away. Pretty amazing! Can TS4 do that?

    Yes, I was pointing out that Maxis left out rotational players in the past as an example to address the future, because I was continuing the topic of this thread. That's why I was confused when you segued into a Sims 3 vs. Sims 4 debate. Thank you for the helpful offers though, I will keep them in mind. There are also some great mods for Sims 4, to be honest. But lately, I've been playing strictly vanilla (no matter which game I play) in order to be able to address honestly and more accurately, the merits and drawbacks of each game's design and mechanics. It's a little rough because I'm such a huge supporter of mods and CC, but I feel like it's about time to throw down with EA some raw feedback, what with the possibility of a Sims 5 on the horizon. Playing mods that make everything fine isn't going to help me with constructive criticism at this time. But, again, I appreciate your suggestions of help. At some point in future I'm sure I'll end up wandering over to the Sims 3 section to see how to properly tweak things since I have some EPs now, get some mods and CC, and try it out "the right way", lol.

    I've also been looking into getting Sims 2 Ultimate to work on my modern PC as well. You know...for science!
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