Feedback: Updated Gardening System «12345...Next Go

EuphorialQueen

The June 19th patch made changes to the gardening system. There are now only five stages to evolving plants from normal to perfect. And if you have the Seasons EP some plants will grow during certain seasons and be dormant during others. Sounds good ... right? Except, like me, many players are finding it difficult to get plants to evolve in a timely manner. There are also changes in the splicing system. I am sharing some of my research in this thread and welcome any feedback of your own experiences.

Edit: Please be kind when posting.
Information I have found helpful
Carl's The Sims Guides on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0IIEZuaOermmnQCzudUo-g

EuphorialQueen

Quality of plants not/very slowly progressing/ No evolve
(Not evolving)
Quote from SimGuruNick
"I'm not sure this is necessarily a bug, I think it might just be part of the new gardening design. Evolutions have slowed down, as it's now an end-game long-term goal. The Evolve commodity starts at around 50, and evolution is available at 100. Fertilize gives a solid amount of evolve commodity, depending on the quality of fertilizer but it's around 8. So you need to fertilize a plant about 7 times before it's ready to evolve. There are other factors that can affect the evolution rate as well, such as sheltering the plant. Sheltered plants have the benefit of being protected from the seasons but the evolution rate is much slower. Bluebells, for example, evolve 4x slower when sheltered than when not."
I will look into filing an issue regarding the Lessons not explaining all of this thoroughly enough. But if, after reading all of this, you believe that your game is still bugged and your plants just aren't evolving period, I would appreciate a save file to help us investigate."

EuphorialQueen

Splicing doesn't produce new harvestable
Quote from SumGuruNick
"Splicing can produce a new harvestable, but there's supposed to be a lower chance that it does this. This is by design. For example, grafting a rose to a grape for bonsai buds will have the plant produce roses OR grapes OR bonsai buds, with the bonsai buds having the lowest chance. So if you're not seeing the new harvestable, I think it might just be a case of bad luck"

EuphorialQueen wrote:

My issue with this change is it also lowers the change of getting other things that depend on having one of the spliced harvestables.
---
Bird of Paradise = Chrysanthemum + Tulip
Bonsai Buds = Daisy + Strawberry
Bonsai Buds = Grapes + Rose
Cowplant Berry = Snapdragon + Dragonfruit
Death Flower = Orchid + Pomegranate
Dragonfruit = Strawberry + Snapdragonf
Grapes = Bluebells + Strawberry
Orchid = Lily + Snapdragon
Parsley = Basil + Sage
Plantain = Lemon * Pear
Pomegranate = Apple + Cherry
---
I like the five step evolution idea in the upgraded gardening system but thought it was supposed to make things easier.
Not happening and leads to frustration.

SimGuruNick wrote:

@EuphorialQueen Rare seed packets, available in Build/Buy, were added to help with this.

EuphorialQueen wrote:

I understand the intent of the rare packets. I am grateful they are available. Getting ONE Bonsai Bud /maybe/ for 250 simoleons or worse paying 1000 simoleons for two magic beans .. ?
I love this game and I am not going anywhere. I just don't want it to be impossible to complete certain goals within the limits set by the game.

Rawla

I appreciate what you've posted here. It was very insightful. I like the changes mentioned except one. The evolution of the plants. Five levels for evolution is great! However, I wish it didn't take so long or so much work to get it done. If I played on long lifespan it wouldn't be as disappointing. But I don't. Thank you @EuphorialQueen for starting this thread.

EuphorialQueen

@Rawla You are welcome. Taking so long to evolve is my biggest concern as well. I rarely if ever play on Long unless it is required for a challenge. After the patch I was testing the new garden system. My poor gardener could not complete step two of the Freelance Botanist aspiration because nothing was evolving. After installing Seasons I put him in the Gardener career. Some of the work-at-home tasks could not be completed because he needed to evolve a plant and it was not happening.

Sentinel1969

The new garden system is now impossible to get the grafted plants to work properly you get the 2 types like the Lilly and the Snapdragon but impossible to get the Orchid to help craft the death flower from level 6 grafting now level 9 and still no Orchid same with the cow plant grafting it says rare not impossible

EuphorialQueen

Sentinel1969 wrote: »

The new garden system is now impossible to get the grafted plants to work properly you get the 2 types like the Lilly and the Snapdragon but impossible to get the Orchid to help craft the death flower from level 6 grafting now level 9 and still no Orchid same with the cow plant grafting it says rare not impossible

From the looks of it that was an intended change
The seed packs in build/buy are supposed to provide "a chance" to get things like Orchids or Death Flowers. I have been experimenting with the bees. You can 'gather a swarm' and send them to get gifts. Sometimes they bring back rare seeds. Of course those with just the patch and not the Seasons EP do not have that option.

agustd

I actually like the new system.

Yes, it's a lot more work than before, less money, more things to take into consideration when creating a garden - but isn't that what this game needs? Isn't that the complexity everyone misses in TS4?

Seasonal plants just make sense when seasons exist. Again, I will say, this is one of the little complex touches that make the game realistic. All I see is people complaining that 4 is too easy, things rarely make sense and generally there isn't much thought put into the features we're getting. Now that they actually re-worked a feature to function more realistically and give players some actual challenge, people are displeased...?

I didn't like the way gardening functioned before. It gave you way too much money and would make your sim rich so quickly I didn't even know what to do with all that money.

I'm tired of sloppy gameplay of TS4 and to me the gardening change is a move in the right direction. I understand it's a game, but games are about the challenge of achieving your goals. How is it fun to get your garden to be perfect in a few sim days?

Pamtastic72

agustd wrote: »

I actually like the new system.

Yes, it's a lot more work than before, less money, more things to take into consideration when creating a garden - but isn't that what this game needs? Isn't that the complexity everyone misses in TS4?

Seasonal plants just make sense when seasons exist. Again, I will say, this is one of the little complex touches that make the game realistic. All I see is people complaining that 4 is too easy, things rarely make sense and generally there isn't much thought put into the features we're getting. Now that they actually re-worked a feature to function more realistically and give players some actual challenge, people are displeased...?

I didn't like the way gardening functioned before. It gave you way too much money and would make your sim rich so quickly I didn't even know what to do with all that money.

I'm tired of sloppy gameplay of TS4 and to me the gardening change is a move in the right direction. I understand it's a game, but games are about the challenge of achieving your goals. How is it fun to get your garden to be perfect in a few sim days?

I agree with you 100%.

Terra

agustd wrote: »

I actually like the new system.

Yes, it's a lot more work than before, less money, more things to take into consideration when creating a garden - but isn't that what this game needs? Isn't that the complexity everyone misses in TS4?

Seasonal plants just make sense when seasons exist. Again, I will say, this is one of the little complex touches that make the game realistic. All I see is people complaining that 4 is too easy, things rarely make sense and generally there isn't much thought put into the features we're getting. Now that they actually re-worked a feature to function more realistically and give players some actual challenge, people are displeased...?

I didn't like the way gardening functioned before. It gave you way too much money and would make your sim rich so quickly I didn't even know what to do with all that money.

I'm tired of sloppy gameplay of TS4 and to me the gardening change is a move in the right direction. I understand it's a game, but games are about the challenge of achieving your goals. How is it fun to get your garden to be perfect in a few sim days?

I agree! Gardening felt over-powered to me before. However, I will say that it is a bit annoying when you can't complete the Gardening career task for the day, or it costs your Sim extra money to do so (for example, buying a seed packet is a requirement for the career, which my Sim only rolled after I'd bought loads of seed packets and planted a full garden to prepare her for her new career).

EuphorialQueen

Both the Freelance Botanist and Gardener career are impacted in a questionable way with the new system. I get it that the changes make both more challenging. Also a bit frustrating when certain goals are not able to be completed.
My career gardener received a Cowplant berry as a promotion reward. I planted it in anticipation of needing it later to complete the final stage of the aspiration. The very next work day the work-at-home task was to feed a Cowplant. It was still a baby plant and not yet full grown! Tasked failed.
Of course once it did mature the task did not appear again.

Pegasys

agustd wrote: »

I actually like the new system.

Yes, it's a lot more work than before, less money, more things to take into consideration when creating a garden - but isn't that what this game needs? Isn't that the complexity everyone misses in TS4?

Seasonal plants just make sense when seasons exist. Again, I will say, this is one of the little complex touches that make the game realistic. All I see is people complaining that 4 is too easy, things rarely make sense and generally there isn't much thought put into the features we're getting. Now that they actually re-worked a feature to function more realistically and give players some actual challenge, people are displeased...?

I didn't like the way gardening functioned before. It gave you way too much money and would make your sim rich so quickly I didn't even know what to do with all that money.

I'm tired of sloppy gameplay of TS4 and to me the gardening change is a move in the right direction. I understand it's a game, but games are about the challenge of achieving your goals. How is it fun to get your garden to be perfect in a few sim days?

Yes I agree with this. At first I thought the revamped gardening was too easy because my sims didn't have to water their plants as frequently... but as time goes on I see it's actually harder - because of plants becoming dormant, not as many harvestables, splicing is not guaranteed to get the third "new" plant - etc.

I like the challenge.

agustd

Terra wrote: »

agustd wrote: »

I actually like the new system.

Yes, it's a lot more work than before, less money, more things to take into consideration when creating a garden - but isn't that what this game needs? Isn't that the complexity everyone misses in TS4?

Seasonal plants just make sense when seasons exist. Again, I will say, this is one of the little complex touches that make the game realistic. All I see is people complaining that 4 is too easy, things rarely make sense and generally there isn't much thought put into the features we're getting. Now that they actually re-worked a feature to function more realistically and give players some actual challenge, people are displeased...?

I didn't like the way gardening functioned before. It gave you way too much money and would make your sim rich so quickly I didn't even know what to do with all that money.

I'm tired of sloppy gameplay of TS4 and to me the gardening change is a move in the right direction. I understand it's a game, but games are about the challenge of achieving your goals. How is it fun to get your garden to be perfect in a few sim days?

I agree! Gardening felt over-powered to me before. However, I will say that it is a bit annoying when you can't complete the Gardening career task for the day, or it costs your Sim extra money to do so (for example, buying a seed packet is a requirement for the career, which my Sim only rolled after I'd bought loads of seed packets and planted a full garden to prepare her for her new career).

Since the system is new, we can hope they'll be tweaking and perfecting it in future patches. I play with aging switched off and age my sims when I feel that they're "ready" so I have plenty of time to complete all the gardening related goals and job tasks but people who play with aging, especially the shorter lifespans should be able to enjoy gardening too.

One thing I'm thankful for is that we don't have to roam the world in search of some of the rarer plants anymore. Since the world isn't open and the plants in other towns only grow when your sim is present there it was a true nightmare! Now, that is NOT the challenge I want from the game

Cupid

Overall, I do prefer the new system. I think the evolution thing is fine. I'm surprised people thought the old system was overpowered though, lol. Also surprised that people think the new system is any more balanced.

Leahmiller2006

EuphorialQueen wrote: »

The June 19th patch made changes to the gardening system. There are now only five stages to evolving plants from normal to perfect. And if you have the Seasons EP some plants will grow during certain seasons and be dormant during others. Sounds good ... right? Except, like me, many players are finding it difficult to get plants to evolve in a timely manner. There are also changes in the splicing system. I am sharing some of my research in this thread and welcome any feedback of your own experiences.

Edit: Please be kind when posting.

That's why in the new system they also added glass roofs so your can make a green house, if you have plants indoors (like real life) in winter and when out of season they still grow as where it usually says what season they grow in it says 'Sheltered' .

Sassie

agustd wrote: »

Since the system is new, we can hope they'll be tweaking and perfecting it in future patches. I play with aging switched off and age my sims when I feel that they're "ready" so I have plenty of time to complete all the gardening related goals and job tasks but people who play with aging, especially the shorter lifespans should be able to enjoy gardening too.

I do hope they tweak it a little bit, so that it's just a little bit less extreme. I don't mind that getting rare plants and evolving the plants to higher quality takes more time, but the fact that over several harvests my spliced plants didn't result in any of the grafted special combo's dissapoints me. Getting them at the first harvest/growth round (as it was mostly before the gardening overhaul if I recall it well) made it quite easy, but now it seems almost impossible, unless you resort to buying the rare seed packs (and spending all your money/gardening profits on those). Let's just say I'm glad I'm playing with aging off (and am using the the Great Soil lot trait) in the save where I have a couple living from their garden.

One thing I'm thankful for is that we don't have to roam the world in search of some of the rarer plants anymore. Since the world isn't open and the plants in other towns only grow when your sim is present there it was a true nightmare! Now, that is NOT the challenge I want from the game

That's true , though I had a work-around for that: I let my Sim 'camp' for a couple of days in each neighbourhood (though I only did that in Newcrest and Magnolia Promenade, since I was playtesting the start of the Build Newcrest Challenge). I made a special room for it with a tent, the portable shower from Outdoor Retreat, the woohoo/toilet bush brom Get Together and some other camping accesories (like a cooler), and moved that one around the neighbourhoods. (It's on the gallery if you want to see it)

agustd

@Sassie That's a neat idea! I've never thought about that. A sim who's into gardening would definitely enjoy camping often

EuphorialQueen

Cupid wrote: »

Overall, I do prefer the new system. I think the evolution thing is fine. I'm surprised people thought the old system was overpowered though, lol. Also surprised that people think the new system is any more balanced.

The main thing that was - confusing -?- about the old system was not being able to remember to order of the 10 evolution stages. I had a cheat sheet so I could remember which stage was better. Especially when grafting to be a better quality plant. The simplified 5 stages is easy to remember plus you can see the progress. Just not the state of the plant.
@Sassie

I do hope they tweak it a little bit, so that it's just a little bit less extreme. I don't mind that getting rare plants and evolving the plants to higher quality takes more time, but the fact that over several harvests my spliced plants didn't result in any of the grafted special combos disappoints me. Getting them at the first harvest/growth round (as it was mostly before the gardening overhaul if I recall it well) made it quite easy, but now it seems almost impossible.

These are my points of concern - that of how long it takes to evolve and of only having a very slim chance of ever getting a rare plant by grafting.

That's true , though I had a work-around for that: I let my Sim 'camp' for a couple of days in each neighborhood (though I only did that in Newcrest and Magnolia Promenade, since I was play-testing the start of the Build Newcrest Challenge). I made a special room for it with a tent, the portable shower from Outdoor Retreat, the woohoo/toilet bush from Get Together and some other camping accessories (like a cooler), and moved that one around the neighborhoods.

Loving this workaround I too have several rooms on the gallery with bare essentials for survival. I need to remember to have my Sims pack a tent, cooler and shower so they can spend time in each area.

EuphorialQueen

agustd wrote: »

Since the system is new, we can hope they'll be tweaking and perfecting it in future patches. I play with aging switched off and age my sims when I feel that they're "ready" so I have plenty of time to complete all the gardening related goals and job tasks but people who play with aging, especially the shorter lifespans should be able to enjoy gardening too.

Generally I play normal lifespan and use youth potions if more time is required to complete an aspiration or meet some other goals. I do see your point though.

agustd wrote: »

One thing I'm thankful for is that we don't have to roam the world in search of some of the rarer plants anymore. Since the world isn't open and the plants in other towns only grow when your sim is present there it was a true nightmare! Now, that is NOT the challenge I want from the game

Unfortunately some of the rare plants cannot be found in the world. Neither seed packets nor grafting will guarantee finding that one elusive plant. Though I appreciate plants grow in certain seasons you will need to know what season to be in a certain area to harvest the ones you need.

EuphorialQueen

@crinrict has compiled a list at AnswersHQ
Gardening issues since Patch 1.44.22 (Gardening Overhaul)

invisiblgirl

The evolving needs to be tweaked - if you play with aging on, it's simply not possible to achieve a 'perfect' plant in a Sim's lifetime. Moreover, unless you've planned ahead, you're never going to get the ten 'excellent' plants you need to complete the freelance botanist aspiration. (It took me six seasons to get one excellent plant.) I'd rather have my Sim spending more time tending the plants and getting results from her work. Now, gardening is more a matter of clicking on each plant to see if it needs fertilizer. Otherwise, there is nothing for my Sim to do with her plants - talking to them doesn't seem to help, and she can just harvest or sell everything with one click.

I do like the ability to buy rare seeds - I could never find the cherry trees in previous games, and since my Sims only eat the superfood salad, I needed the cherries to get the pomegranate. I also appreciate that food made with 'normal' and 'nice' quality harvestables is no longer inedible, especially since it takes years (literally) to get plants to evolve.

skelebee

I'm having issues with evolving too. Some of them take forever to evolve, and others will evolve almost immediately, even though all of the plants were planted at the same time.

kalaksed

some plants evolve faster than others, and the fertilizer used helps a lot, too. i had planted 6 different trees of emotion at the same time to upgrade my garden. i kept using perfect growfruit on three of them, small pet poop on the other three. the ones fertilized by growfruit were evolvable days before the pet poop ones. did the same thing with sixam mosquito plants, and the ones with growfruit evolved much quicker, as well

Illandrya

The only issue I have with the new system is not being able to complete the plant collection with orchids and birds of paradise. The rest of it I’m really enjoying like plants needing more water in the summer and being slower to evolve in the winter.

Sharee

So if a graft doesnt produce the plant it was supposed to, i need to do it again on another plant?

kalaksed

it should *eventually* produce the third harvestable if it's supposed to. but those are generally rare plants, and the rarer the harvestable, the less likely it will be produced each time a 'roll' is made to see what harvestable is produced in each spot the plant has room for. add in the fact that every plant now has fewer of those spots for harvestables, it's going to be a rather small chance to see those pop up on the spliced plants. but it can still happen

every day at 5 am, the plants on the lot and in the neighborhood start producing their harvestables. by 5:20, they've produced whatever they're going to have for that day. and sometimes, the rare produce will show up in household inventory instead of on the plants (i had that happen with cowplant berries, someone else mentioned it with bird of paradise flowers)

i've made a list of the new apparent max number of harvestables each plant can have, it's posted in another thread about gardening (the one that also has what seasons every plant grows in). just know that some days, plants will produce one less than their max. and those days, all plants of that type produce less. like, plasma fruit spawns 3 fruit a day, then one day, it just produced 2. and the sim growing it lived in forgotten hollow and all four of the wild plasma fruit trees also only spawned 2 fruit that day. the next day, they all had 3 again

and all of this is apparently why they added the 'uncommon' and 'rare' seed packs. to have a chance at getting those plants that were once mostly best from splices

also, for orchid, you used to be awarded one for completing the space rock collection. if that's still the case, it's another way to get that flower