"Constructive Criticism helps, on the other hand." "Nothing Spoils Creativity more than Constant Criticism".
by stormsview
Remember you are Criticizing humans such as yourself. While you may get a perfect game and fill a void in your life. But can you remove the depression you fill in theirs?
“It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one.”
by Chuck
I can not see anyone that Truly have Sims 4 and enough of the packs to enjoy it and have our wonderful Cats&Dogs EP could ever agree Sims 4 only.... (RECYCLING OLD CONTENT AND A LACK OF CREATIVITY IN DEVELOPMENT) Is this the Motherlode of Unfair Criticism?? Sure they have the right to, but is it fair.?
The problem adressed in this topic is actually lack of creativity (well, in reality lack of money or time probably, but the result is lack of creativity). Everyone’s allowed to criticize that when they dislike that. If I may take my example of the cheat sheet (to pull it away from the everybody hates Sims 4-argument that isn’t an argument but a sophism): I Truly have Sims 3 and enough of the packs to enjoy it (all, in fact), but that writing a cheat sheet is an annoying interaction because of the recycling instead of the new and enjoyable feature it could have been. For me it spoiled the experience completely. I’d expect a sim looking around anxiously while writing it, covering it with their hand and using their study book. Nothing like the homework animation where they write things down clearly by trying to figure things out and remember it (you don’t need a cheat sheet when you manage to do that). Then putting it away in their sock or something. I’d also expect the sheet to be tiny, not a huge blue notebook kind of thing.
This topic is filled with constructive criticism.
ETA: hurray for Rebecca Black by the way but her song still was a bad song. I want good songs. I want a good game, not a company making millions delivering a poor game. We apparently are in disagreement there. And yes, people want Seasons and they wanted Pets. Not recycled though.
I am sorry I think this last decision was made intentionally. I remember another game that got caught doing this exact thing. Tropico 5. You know I was blinded by the fact that I must find a way to love this game, that I did not notice the huge recycle thing in this game. It is not big it is huge. Not just the new pack (which is the worst yet). It is littering all the game.
The creativity died with this new series (exception is the toddlers and they were free). I feel cheated and insulted at the same time. I spent all this money (not really worth it, since there is way too much recycling things in game). And it is my fault for caving in and buying this stuff. I did not speak with my wallet. Then to smack me down further, a video showed me how easy it is to recolor and put images on Sims 4 things (change pictures, shirts, chairs, and etc).
When I look at the game, I do not see an actual Sims game, but a wannabe Sims game. If you take a hard look at all the things recycled in Sims 4 (And I mean from Sims 4 not the other versions) it is shocking. And they charge full price like items are new and have creativity.
It feels this why the color wheel was left out. Why a lot of things were left out, to piece meal it back to us. RIP creativity.
I had a suspicion back then - and that suspicion has grown - that toddlers were only patched in for free because the community was furious about their absence and had started abandoning the game. They knew asking money for them would have caused an outrage that might have destroyed the franchise. That’s why they were offered and not added as paid content. Had Sims 4 been successful back then the way it apparently is now, we would have paid for them. MFP is a direct result of the game being popular again, like the expensive Store was.
I quite actually like the idea of new food cart recipes in each pack. Food and recipes are some of my favorite game features. I think it would be cool if instead of giving us newly designed food carts to give us the ability to customize existing carts and then just new recipes with each pack. That way we could add whatever recipes we wanted to existing food carts and those resources could be used for other features.
I've used the new Selvadoran recipes along with the Mexican recipes from CL to build a Mexican/Selvadoran restaurant in Brindleton Bay. Still need to playtest it before uploading to the Gallery but I basically took the Rattlesnake Bar from BG and expanded it, added an outdoor patio and bar and a few other improvements.
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
There it is right there. They like to give us what we want. correct?
What do we talk about every day we want whats in Sims 3 lol, we beg and beg for recycling. We want seasons. we wanted laundry we want University we want, everything over again.
We refuse to allow them to go on a new path.
since their main gold is to please us they do so.
Is it fair to Criticize them when they do as we ask?
So they are giving us what we want and doing it better with new Technology.
Now I have noticed we are now wanting Sims 2 also put in Sims 4.
Now that's simply not fair, everyone knows that 2+ 3 = 5 We would have to wait for Sims 5 for all that
There is a difference between wanting a previous theme like say seasons, university and pets and blatant recycling of things like clothes and furniture. Example is on this thread of the same chair re coloured or as the original example the exact same pattern re used between packs. Or the doctor career being recycled to make the vet career because the doctor career is either bugged or exceptionally flawed with employees standing about doing nothing all day long. They don’t even now attend to the reception desk. Last time I played a member of staff stood outside all day and another sat in a child’s chair in the waiting room which I thought was pretty funny considering the patients don’t even use the waiting room chairs. But yet that flawed system was recycled to make the vet career, the vet career funnily enough to nobody’s surprise has the same issues. That is when recycling shouldn’t happen. But then to be honest it’s nothing short of a disgrace that get to work was sold broken with two of the careers not working.
I don’t know why a few in this thread can not grasp that. Or perhaps they just do and don’t want to admit the game has flaws.
Feedback is good for the developers as long as it’s constructive. If you don’t tell them what’s wrong things wouldn’t get fixed. Take the ball pit for example. You aren’t hurting their feelings to do so and you aren’t doing them any favours by telling them the sims 4 is the best game ever.
I’m married to a game developer - he wants to know what I enjoy but he also wants to know what I like and what I don’t like and even though it can be an awkward conversation face to face with someone telling them that something is less than perfect -my Husband wants to know. I think if anything he would be hurt I didn’t tell him.
The sims devs are not our friends, nor our family and if we are polite and constructive there is nothing wrong with giving feedback. I don’t like recycling. I never will amd I’m not surprised the community accepts it so happily.
"Constructive Criticism helps, on the other hand." "Nothing Spoils Creativity more than Constant Criticism".
by stormsview
Remember you are Criticizing humans such as yourself. While you may get a perfect game and fill a void in your life. But can you remove the depression you fill in theirs?
“It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one.”
by Chuck
I can not see anyone that Truly have Sims 4 and enough of the packs to enjoy it and have our wonderful Cats&Dogs EP could ever agree Sims 4 only.... (RECYCLING OLD CONTENT AND A LACK OF CREATIVITY IN DEVELOPMENT) Is this the Motherlode of Unfair Criticism?? Sure they have the right to, but is it fair.?
The problem adressed in this topic is actually lack of creativity (well, in reality lack of money or time probably, but the result is lack of creativity). Everyone’s allowed to criticize that when they dislike that. If I may take my example of the cheat sheet (to pull it away from the everybody hates Sims 4-argument that isn’t an argument but a sophism): I Truly have Sims 3 and enough of the packs to enjoy it (all, in fact), but that writing a cheat sheet is an annoying interaction because of the recycling instead of the new and enjoyable feature it could have been. For me it spoiled the experience completely. I’d expect a sim looking around anxiously while writing it, covering it with their hand and using their study book. Nothing like the homework animation where they write things down clearly by trying to figure things out and remember it (you don’t need a cheat sheet when you manage to do that). Then putting it away in their sock or something. I’d also expect the sheet to be tiny, not a huge blue notebook kind of thing.
This topic is filled with constructive criticism.
ETA: hurray for Rebecca Black by the way but her song still was a bad song. I want good songs. I want a good game, not a company making millions delivering a poor game. We apparently are in disagreement there.
A good song to one person might be total garbage to someone else. I have a very eclectic music taste, but while I might extol Bruckner's 7th Symphony (I dated a French horn player in college and he's the one to blame for getting me into Bruckner) you or anyone else might be bored to tears with classical music. There are video games that other people love that I just can't get the hang of or they're not my cup of tea. And you know what? That's okay -- people can enjoy different things.
It actually makes some sense to "recycle" or reuse previous content and programming in new features. In terms of cost accounting, they can spread out the cost of producing that programming feature (retail/restaurants/etc.) over multiple packs, thus sparing more budget for new features. No need to reinvent the wheel after all. If they'd had to develop an entire new system, we may not have gotten such a large jungle to explore -- that's another thing to consider.
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Ever since TS4 came out there's been a lot of talking about how bad its engine is. I think the amount of recycling going on is yet another sign of that. They're limited in how many new things they can implement, so they stick to what's already part of the game and just tweak it. Vampires was something fresh, and oddly enough, it came out around the time TS4's sales were in a rather poor condition... Looks to me like they gave us something so good just to get on good terms with players who turned their back on them, and then it was back to the usual. This just makes me angrier because we've been sampled the actual potential of 4 and nothing came out of it. No more brand new concepts and ideas, only re-skins sold in a pretty packaging. That's also why EPs lack features so much.
Yeah, strange that 'good' EPs, SPs and GPs only seem to appear when Sims 4 isn't doing so well, almost seems that the nickel-and-diming they're doing has nothing to do with team or budget but is actually deliberate.
I'm being reminded of an old South Park episode, where a 'trailer' for a film says at one point: "It's Jim Carrey in, whatever, you'll pay to go see it", well in this case it's EA-xis saying: "It's the Sims, whatever, you'll buy it".
There it is right there. They like to give us what we want. correct?
What do we talk about every day we want whats in Sims 3 lol, we beg and beg for recycling. We want seasons. we wanted laundry we want University we want, everything over again.
We refuse to allow them to go on a new path.
since their main gold is to please us they do so.
Is it fair to Criticize them when they do as we ask?
So they are giving us what we want and doing it better with new Technology.
Now I have noticed we are now wanting Sims 2 also put in Sims 4.
Now that's simply not fair, everyone knows that 2+ 3 = 5 We would have to wait for Sims 5 for all that
I disagree about the new technology and there are a few features that does that and for me it is not enough, if they were using the technology of today entensively I would have an color wheel, CAST and the other features that was available in the last version. Yes it would be recycled but the features that was recycled would be necessary for me to take my game to new heights and then I would be an ruler. Emotions, Lot Traits I do get excited for. Games that are part of an franchise uses old with the new and not the other way around and toss everything, you have to tweak what you have and be serious about it and also believe in your product. For example EA/Maxis showed no belief in Sim City 2015 and that is one of the reasons why it failed because they did not tweak it like they should. Yes, Sims 4 may run smoothly for most folks being it has few features that does not stress the game or it's most of it's customers. There are games more demanding than this and I play them. Sims 4 has improved but it needs much more of the new tech that is out now and it is too late to incorporate those features being Sims 4 path has been written one may have to wait for Sims 5 and no telling if it is going to happen.
Omen by HP Intel®️ Core™️ i9- 12900K W/ RGB Liquid Cooler 32GB Nvidia RTX 3080 10Gb ASUS Ultra-Wide 34" Curved Monitor. Omen By HP Intel® Core™ i7-12800HX 32 GB Nvidia 3070 Ti 8 GB 17.3 Screen
"Constructive Criticism helps, on the other hand." "Nothing Spoils Creativity more than Constant Criticism".
by stormsview
Remember you are Criticizing humans such as yourself. While you may get a perfect game and fill a void in your life. But can you remove the depression you fill in theirs?
“It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one.”
by Chuck
I can not see anyone that Truly have Sims 4 and enough of the packs to enjoy it and have our wonderful Cats&Dogs EP could ever agree Sims 4 only.... (RECYCLING OLD CONTENT AND A LACK OF CREATIVITY IN DEVELOPMENT) Is this the Motherlode of Unfair Criticism?? Sure they have the right to, but is it fair.?
The problem adressed in this topic is actually lack of creativity (well, in reality lack of money or time probably, but the result is lack of creativity). Everyone’s allowed to criticize that when they dislike that. If I may take my example of the cheat sheet (to pull it away from the everybody hates Sims 4-argument that isn’t an argument but a sophism): I Truly have Sims 3 and enough of the packs to enjoy it (all, in fact), but that writing a cheat sheet is an annoying interaction because of the recycling instead of the new and enjoyable feature it could have been. For me it spoiled the experience completely. I’d expect a sim looking around anxiously while writing it, covering it with their hand and using their study book. Nothing like the homework animation where they write things down clearly by trying to figure things out and remember it (you don’t need a cheat sheet when you manage to do that). Then putting it away in their sock or something. I’d also expect the sheet to be tiny, not a huge blue notebook kind of thing.
This topic is filled with constructive criticism.
ETA: hurray for Rebecca Black by the way but her song still was a bad song. I want good songs. I want a good game, not a company making millions delivering a poor game. We apparently are in disagreement there.
A good song to one person might be total garbage to someone else. I have a very eclectic music taste, but while I might extol Bruckner's 7th Symphony (I dated a French horn player in college and he's the one to blame for getting me into Bruckner) you or anyone else might be bored to tears with classical music. There are video games that other people love that I just can't get the hang of or they're not my cup of tea. And you know what? That's okay -- people can enjoy different things.
It actually makes some sense to "recycle" or reuse previous content and programming in new features. In terms of cost accounting, they can spread out the cost of producing that programming feature (retail/restaurants/etc.) over multiple packs, thus sparing more budget for new features. No need to reinvent the wheel after all. If they'd had to develop an entire new system, we may not have gotten such a large jungle to explore -- that's another thing to consider.
I was reacting to a comparison: we all know how it worked for Rebecca Black (no, actually, I haven’t got a clue how it worked for Rebecca Black because I’ve never heard of her) 119,394,282 views on Youtube she became a 14-year-old millionaire for a song everyone hated. The comparison is about a song ‘everybody hated’ and still became a hit apparently, turning the girl into a millionaire. I can’t but stick to the comparison, which says “it doesn’t matter whether people hate the result, as long as it sells everything’s just fine.” Yeah, well, no, not to me it isn’t You can turn it into “not everybody likes the same song”, but that was not the message of the comparison.
I strongly disagree with your statement about recycling. Adding new animations for different interactions is not reinventing the wheel. Like I said, in the cheat sheet example the reused animation was totally off even. And seeing the same animation for several different interactions is a bore to me, fresh and new animations is just as important as brand new content (like the jungle). If one excludes the other something’s terribly wrong. I don’t want having to choose between a good graduation system and a decent cheat sheets system. It’s beyond me why we’d have to except that.
I am sorry I think this last decision was made intentionally. I remember another game that got caught doing this exact thing. Tropico 5. You know I was blinded by the fact that I must find a way to love this game, that I did not notice the huge recycle thing in this game. It is not big it is huge. Not just the new pack (which is the worst yet). It is littering all the game.
The creativity died with this new series (exception is the toddlers and they were free). I feel cheated and insulted at the same time. I spent all this money (not really worth it, since there is way too much recycling things in game). And it is my fault for caving in and buying this stuff. I did not speak with my wallet. Then to smack me down further, a video showed me how easy it is to recolor and put images on Sims 4 things (change pictures, shirts, chairs, and etc).
When I look at the game, I do not see an actual Sims game, but a wannabe Sims game. If you take a hard look at all the things recycled in Sims 4 (And I mean from Sims 4 not the other versions) it is shocking. And they charge full price like items are new and have creativity.
It feels this why the color wheel was left out. Why a lot of things were left out, to piece meal it back to us. RIP creativity.
I had a suspicion back then - and that suspicion has grown - that toddlers were only patched in for free because the community was furious about their absence and had started abandoning the game. They knew asking money for them would have caused an outrage that might have destroyed the franchise. That’s why they were offered and not added as paid content.
I completely agree with this because if toddlers hadn’t been removed from the original design of TS4 then I am quite sure that they would have in the basegame and not postponed for two years.
Had Sims 4 been successful back then the way it apparently is now, we would have paid for them.
Maybe you would if EA still had released the toddlers. But I am quite sure that this never would have happened because the only reason that EA suddenly made and released the toddlers anyway for me to see clearly must have been as a desperate move to get higher and more acceptable sales numbers for the packs - and it also seems to have worked.
MFP is a direct result of the game being popular again, like the expensive Store was.
I see MFP more like a sign that EA has had a hard time to get enough ideas for all the 4-5 SPs that EA clearly has decided to make for TS4. So when simmers started to complain about the missing smaller pets in Cats&Dogs then EA likely got the idea to release them in a SP. But the SP of course needed more content. So what could that be? Clothes for cats and dogs likely were their only idea. So the result became MFP. At least that is how I see it
I think the toddlers were always meant to be in the base game because its the only way it would work, after all, they are part of the Sims family.
Think about it, if you give birth to a baby in sims 4 you age it up to a toddler only if you buy the pack, NoWay! I think that would have been unreasonable.
I do not feel they ever had the intention of selling the toddler apart from the base pack.
Those are some beautiful toddlers and with very lifelike animations. It would take about two years in creating them.
we'll give you a full refund. Just make sure you make your request within 24 hours after you first launch the game, within seven days from your date of purchase, or within seven days from the game's release date if you pre-ordered, whichever comes first.
Who said EA doesn't have a sense of humor
I think the toddlers were always meant to be in the base game because its the only way it would work, after all, they are part of the Sims family.
Think about it, if you give birth to a baby in sims 4 you age it up to a toddler only if you buy the pack, NoWay! I think that would have been unreasonable.
I do not feel they ever had the intention of selling the toddler apart from the base pack.
Those are some beautiful toddlers and with very lifelike animations. It would take about two years in creating them.
I agree with you that EA wouldn’t plan to sell the toddlers for money. But this is far from the only time that EA has released a Sims game without toddlers and the Sims 2 games for consoles didn’t even have children at all. Therefore I don’t really wonder that EA planned to let TS4 just become a Sims game without toddlers (and with simplified babies and teens too) when the main new things in TS4 instead were planned to be more multitasking and more happy partying for adults.
The toddlers became nice when they released them. But it can’t have taken more time for them to make the toddlers anyway than they usually use on a GP which they can make in just about 4 months.
Also EA never would have let them use that much time on making toddlers as free content unless EA was desperate and believed that impressing toddlers were the only thing that could get the sales numbers for TS4 packs up to an acceptable level. And the reviews all over the web surely confirmed EA in this! Therefore I am still sure that toddlers were made in desperation and not at all as a part of EA’s original plans for TS4.
Maxis has finally put toddlers, a life-state that was present in The Sims 3, into The Sims 4.
All the way back in 2014, Maxis revealed that The Sims 4 would be lacking a couple of key features that were present in The Sims 3. They were pools and toddlers. This naturally caused a pretty big outrage among fans and led to a petition. Now, more than two years after the game's initial release date, Maxis has finally delivered, adding toddlers into the game with a free patch.
"Today is a big day for The Sims 4," wrote Maxis in a blog post. "We're excited to announce the biggest update for The Sims 4 to date, and it comes in a surprisingly "little" package. Toddlers* are available as a free update for you to download into your game right now!"
I'm not exaggerating when I say we've been talking about this particular update for years. We just had to find the right time, resources and design to allow us to start the heavy process of actually building and bringing Toddlers to life. And believe me when I say it has been really REALLY difficult to not talk about this as we worked to get it right," it added.
Maxis certainly isn't joking about the size of this updated: you'll need to set aside 1.9GB to download it. The update adds the toddler life state alongside 6 toddler hairs, 2 toddler hats, 3 toddler glasses, 8 toddler tops, 6 toddler full body outfits, 8 toddler bottoms, 3 toddler body accessories and 3 toddler shoes. There are also 8 unique toddler traits and 19 toddler-specific
new items.
((They seem to know that toddlers belonged to the simmers from the start and would have never thought to sell them outside of an update.))
we'll give you a full refund. Just make sure you make your request within 24 hours after you first launch the game, within seven days from your date of purchase, or within seven days from the game's release date if you pre-ordered, whichever comes first.
Who said EA doesn't have a sense of humor
@Stormsview You just forget that the developers aren’t the managers in EA who decide how EA’s money should be used. Also there are two other things that simmers usually forget:
1. The developers aren’t very often simmers themselves. When they list their own favorite games they usually list very different games instead. This shouldn’t be surprising at all because their education is about making games in general and for all platforms. Also the developers in Salt Lake City had mainly just made a lot of Tiger Woods golf games before EA suddenly chose them to make Sims games and also to release 4 EPs for TS3 in only 2 years (2012 and 2013). So of course a lot of those developers likely preferred sports games over Sims games.
2. EA’s top managers are mainly interested in sports games and action games too and they don’t really understand why people are playing Sims games. They negotiated of course with Rachel Franklin about this. But on https://simsvip.com/2015/09/14/rachel-franklin-on-the-future-of-the-sims-4/ she says:
”(Q) So you’re satisfied that not having toddlers was the right choice?
Rachel Franklin: That’s the decision that we made based on all of the information that we had at the time. So absolutely, I feel like it’s the best decision for the game to date. I’m not talking about future stuff. But I do think it’s important to know, that players play in very different ways. We see all kinds of different play styles and family players are very passionate, so are players that play other ways.
And I want to make sure that all of those voices are considered when people are thinking about whether or not we’ve included the right things. Because we do, we take it very seriously about whether or not we’re approaching all of those different play styles. We take it just as seriously as the players do that are asking for the things that they want.”
So again: EA knows that simmers play in different ways and that a lot of young simmers seem to be more interested in romance, flirting and partying than in raising kids. Therefore EA chose to use less money on babies, toddlers, children and teens than in the previous games and the plan can’t IMO have been to change that later.
"Constructive Criticism helps, on the other hand." "Nothing Spoils Creativity more than Constant Criticism".
by stormsview
Remember you are Criticizing humans such as yourself. While you may get a perfect game and fill a void in your life. But can you remove the depression you fill in theirs?
“It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one.”
by Chuck
I can not see anyone that Truly have Sims 4 and enough of the packs to enjoy it and have our wonderful Cats&Dogs EP could ever agree Sims 4 only.... (RECYCLING OLD CONTENT AND A LACK OF CREATIVITY IN DEVELOPMENT) Is this the Motherlode of Unfair Criticism?? Sure they have the right to, but is it fair.?
The problem adressed in this topic is actually lack of creativity (well, in reality lack of money or time probably, but the result is lack of creativity). Everyone’s allowed to criticize that when they dislike that. If I may take my example of the cheat sheet (to pull it away from the everybody hates Sims 4-argument that isn’t an argument but a sophism): I Truly have Sims 3 and enough of the packs to enjoy it (all, in fact), but that writing a cheat sheet is an annoying interaction because of the recycling instead of the new and enjoyable feature it could have been. For me it spoiled the experience completely. I’d expect a sim looking around anxiously while writing it, covering it with their hand and using their study book. Nothing like the homework animation where they write things down clearly by trying to figure things out and remember it (you don’t need a cheat sheet when you manage to do that). Then putting it away in their sock or something. I’d also expect the sheet to be tiny, not a huge blue notebook kind of thing.
This topic is filled with constructive criticism.
ETA: hurray for Rebecca Black by the way but her song still was a bad song. I want good songs. I want a good game, not a company making millions delivering a poor game. We apparently are in disagreement there. And yes, people want Seasons and they wanted Pets. Not recycled though.
Actually they apparently do want it recycled - they want it just like Sims 3 with the Fairs and everything from what is being posted. -
ETA - Rebecca Black is still going strong - so even a bad song can make someone a star....
Also real life itself is nothing but recycled content - the world revolves and makes rules that we must do the same things day after day, the same way, day in and out - from the time we get up to we go to bed. When humans deviate from what is expected - we are branded dubious, deviates, rebellious against society - the wild child - we are told to get with the program and grow up - that life has rules and we all must follow those rules or else. The world runs in recycled circles - why would we ever expect a game about life to be different. Life is not just an everyday adventure but with each generation a more modernizing life of what our ancestors did before us. Different and new in real life will get one branded as eccentric or an outsider or just plain messed up - and in jobs will get you fired - must follow the rules of exactness you know. That is life - of course unless you are rich and can do what ever you want I suppose.
We are good little robots - for that is what life is all about... afterall. Heck nowaday movies, tv and books even seem to be dlc and remakes that make the most money - new shows are tossed to bring back the old often just like we left them. The most money makers are just continuations of what made them popular years ago. Block buster grow out of mankinds desire to see what happened next or since. Life really is recycled everything. People obviously do not want new and different - they want the sameo - sameo - Star Wars any body - Superheros are also all back - RoseAnne is back - what's new and most popular is what is old and now.
Post edited by Writin_Reg on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Maxis has finally put toddlers, a life-state that was present in The Sims 3, into The Sims 4.
All the way back in 2014, Maxis revealed that The Sims 4 would be lacking a couple of key features that were present in The Sims 3. They were pools and toddlers. This naturally caused a pretty big outrage among fans and led to a petition. Now, more than two years after the game's initial release date, Maxis has finally delivered, adding toddlers into the game with a free patch.
"Today is a big day for The Sims 4," wrote Maxis in a blog post. "We're excited to announce the biggest update for The Sims 4 to date, and it comes in a surprisingly "little" package. Toddlers* are available as a free update for you to download into your game right now!"
I'm not exaggerating when I say we've been talking about this particular update for years. We just had to find the right time, resources and design to allow us to start the heavy process of actually building and bringing Toddlers to life. And believe me when I say it has been really REALLY difficult to not talk about this as we worked to get it right," it added.
Maxis certainly isn't joking about the size of this updated: you'll need to set aside 1.9GB to download it. The update adds the toddler life state alongside 6 toddler hairs, 2 toddler hats, 3 toddler glasses, 8 toddler tops, 6 toddler full body outfits, 8 toddler bottoms, 3 toddler body accessories and 3 toddler shoes. There are also 8 unique toddler traits and 19 toddler-specific
new items.
((They seem to know that toddlers belonged to the simmers from the start and would have never thought to sell them outside of an update.))
Okay toddlers is one of the only thing where TS4 is shining. But it's just not enough.
@Stormsview You just forget that the developers aren’t the managers in EA who decide how EA’s money should be used. Also there are two other things that simmers usually forget:
1. The developers aren’t very often simmers themselves. When they list their own favorite games they usually list very different games instead. This shouldn’t be surprising at all because their education is about making games in general and for all platforms. Also the developers in Salt Lake City had mainly just made a lot of Tiger Woods golf games before EA suddenly chose them to make Sims games and also to release 4 EPs for TS3 in only 2 years (2012 and 2013). So of course a lot of those developers likely preferred sports games over Sims games.
2. EA’s top managers are mainly interested in sports games and action games too and they don’t really understand why people are playing Sims games. They negotiated of course with Rachel Franklin about this. But on https://simsvip.com/2015/09/14/rachel-franklin-on-the-future-of-the-sims-4/ she says:
”(Q) So you’re satisfied that not having toddlers was the right choice?
Rachel Franklin: That’s the decision that we made based on all of the information that we had at the time. So absolutely, I feel like it’s the best decision for the game to date. I’m not talking about future stuff. But I do think it’s important to know, that players play in very different ways. We see all kinds of different play styles and family players are very passionate, so are players that play other ways.
And I want to make sure that all of those voices are considered when people are thinking about whether or not we’ve included the right things. Because we do, we take it very seriously about whether or not we’re approaching all of those different play styles. We take it just as seriously as the players do that are asking for the things that they want.”
So again: EA knows that simmers play in different ways and that a lot of young simmers seem to be more interested in romance, flirting and partying than in raising kids. Therefore EA chose to use less money on babies, toddlers, children and teens than in the previous games and the plan can’t IMO have been to change that later.
Nope - some of the devs in Salt Lake City were devs that worked on Sims 2 (some were new) - I know because I tested Showtime for them and knew these devs from Sims 2. That PCA Golf was made by EA devs - they and one of EAs mobile divisions had studios in the Salt Lake City Studios well before Sims 3 Store was started there. The only crossover with EA Golf was for the Tiger Woods Golf game during Sims 2's development Sam Player who headed a lot on Tiger Woods Golf games -not in Salt Lake City but at the Redwood City Campus - did work on and head a couple of Sims 2 games made at Redwood City campus - Bon Voyage was one of the games he headed and Free Time for Sims 2 as well. But he never worked on Sims 3 - at all.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I agree with the animation recycle thinggies, the lack of new animations is serious. Sims spend a lot of time talking and I am tired of my sims waving their hands the same ways over and over, even when the topics are different. So I feel we should call them out when we see it, not comparing them to TS3 and other games, because it could only get worse with The Sims 5 (remember we only got toddlers because we were very vocal about that).
With our talented cc creators, we got enough recolors going around, plus brand new 3D meshes of hair, clothing, shoes, accessories, furnitures and tons of makeups, tatoos etc we do not need EA to spend their expensive time on that (everyone should google and follow at least one cc site, sims4update, lana cc finds, thesimsresource etc, you will see what I'm talking about).
For example, I remember when we asked about Pets not being controllable, they told us that pets would be more realistic that way and they prefer to spend more time on the Vet career (which is even more disappointing than the Doctor career). If you ever played a Doctor, the collapsed patients would stand up right away and walk to the surgery table after the Doctor whispers in their ears. There is not even a special walk or helping hands, a gurney or a wheelchair should have been an obvious choice, but no, *reality* is the first priority. We need to count animations first in each pack, not another tshirt or rug as new assets.
There it is right there. They like to give us what we want. correct?
What do we talk about every day we want whats in Sims 3 lol, we beg and beg for recycling. We want seasons. we wanted laundry we want University we want, everything over again.
We refuse to allow them to go on a new path.
since their main gold is to please us they do so.
Is it fair to Criticize them when they do as we ask?
So they are giving us what we want and doing it better with new Technology.
Now I have noticed we are now wanting Sims 2 also put in Sims 4.
Now that's simply not fair, everyone knows that 2+ 3 = 5 We would have to wait for Sims 5 for all that
And did anybody asked for social interactions to have exact same animation over and over again in all different interactions? No.
Did anybody asked for objects to look identical the same but come as separate ones because who hell knows why they didn't come as a new color swatch instead? No.
Again, what are you trying to prove anything? In analogy, I'm ranting about food, but you're trying to counter argue by praising... drinks(?) which I can already agree with my last comment wasn't obvious hint I do agree with the comment that players always wanted content to be recycled and I accept that concepts should be carried over from one game/sequal to another. I don't agree however... *insert the thing I kept on repeating which I no longer continue to be broken record set on repeat*.
As for somebody who brought up an interesting fact that "creating animation nowadays is so darn expensive", then why can't they simply make them hold a more bigger gameplay impact other than executing different animations and relationship gain/drop?
Remember you are Criticizing humans such as yourself. While you may get a perfect game and fill a void in your life. But can you remove the depression you fill in theirs?
I really don't care to be honest. If I had to meet a waitress that doesn't know how to her job (being all rude condescending and all), I would, of course, criticize her despite how others find her cute and sweet and maybe I'll even go talk to the manager with the report about how she doesn't know how to treat customers properly.
@Stormsview You just forget that the developers aren’t the managers in EA who decide how EA’s money should be used. Also there are two other things that simmers usually forget:
1. The developers aren’t very often simmers themselves. When they list their own favorite games they usually list very different games instead. This shouldn’t be surprising at all because their education is about making games in general and for all platforms. Also the developers in Salt Lake City had mainly just made a lot of Tiger Woods golf games before EA suddenly chose them to make Sims games and also to release 4 EPs for TS3 in only 2 years (2012 and 2013). So of course a lot of those developers likely preferred sports games over Sims games.
2. EA’s top managers are mainly interested in sports games and action games too and they don’t really understand why people are playing Sims games. They negotiated of course with Rachel Franklin about this. But on https://simsvip.com/2015/09/14/rachel-franklin-on-the-future-of-the-sims-4/ she says:
”(Q) So you’re satisfied that not having toddlers was the right choice?
Rachel Franklin: That’s the decision that we made based on all of the information that we had at the time. So absolutely, I feel like it’s the best decision for the game to date. I’m not talking about future stuff. But I do think it’s important to know, that players play in very different ways. We see all kinds of different play styles and family players are very passionate, so are players that play other ways.
And I want to make sure that all of those voices are considered when people are thinking about whether or not we’ve included the right things. Because we do, we take it very seriously about whether or not we’re approaching all of those different play styles. We take it just as seriously as the players do that are asking for the things that they want.”
So again: EA knows that simmers play in different ways and that a lot of young simmers seem to be more interested in romance, flirting and partying than in raising kids. Therefore EA chose to use less money on babies, toddlers, children and teens than in the previous games and the plan can’t IMO have been to change that later.
Nope - some of the devs in Salt Lake City were devs that worked on Sims 2 (some were new) - I know because I tested Showtime for them and knew these devs from Sims 2. That PCA Golf was made by EA devs - they and one of EAs mobile divisions had studios in the Salt Lake City Studios well before Sims 3 Store was started there. The only crossover with EA Golf was for the Tiger Woods Golf game during Sims 2's development Sam Player who headed a lot on Tiger Woods Golf games -not in Salt Lake City but at the Redwood City Campus - did work on and head a couple of Sims 2 games made at Redwood City campus - Bon Voyage was one of the games he headed and Free Time for Sims 2 as well. But he never worked on Sims 3 - at all.
EA Salt Lake was Headgate Studios from their beginning in 1992 until December 2006 where they were bought by EA and renamed to EA Salt Lake. They began to publish games through EA already in 2000 though. But until 2007 they mainly only made golf games and among those golf games were every Windows version of EA Sports Tiger Woods Golf from 2001-2007.
Before the 4 Sims 3 EPs released in 2012 and 2013 Headgate/EA Salt Lake had only released two Sims games:
1. The Sims 2 Pets on Wii (2007)
2. The Sims 3 Pets on 3DS (2011)
But even as an EA studio they also made sports games:
1. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08 on PlayStation 2, Wii and Windows (2007)
2. Madden NFL 08 on Windows (2007)
Beside that they made three Littlest Pet Shop games for Wii and Nintendo DS in 2008-2010.
I don’t know if any of the Sims developers moved the 11 hours away (by car) to Salt Lake from Redwood just to help EA’s new studio to get started with Sims games instead of their usual sports games. But if so it likely only were one or two developers because it isn’t easy to move that far away if you have your own house and family where your spouse also has a job.
I agree with the animation recycle thinggies, the lack of new animations is serious. Sims spend a lot of time talking and I am tired of my sims waving their hands the same ways over and over, even when the topics are different. So I feel we should call them out when we see it, not comparing them to TS3 and other games, because it could only get worse with The Sims 5 (remember we only got toddlers because we were very vocal about that).
With our talented cc creators, we got enough recolors going around, plus brand new 3D meshes of hair, clothing, shoes, accessories, furnitures and tons of makeups, tatoos etc we do not need EA to spend their expensive time on that (everyone should google and follow at least one cc site, sims4update, lana cc finds, thesimsresource etc, you will see what I'm talking about).
For example, I remember when we asked about Pets not being controllable, they told us that pets would be more realistic that way and they prefer to spend more time on the Vet career (which is even more disappointing than the Doctor career). If you ever played a Doctor, the collapsed patients would stand up right away and walk to the surgery table after the Doctor whispers in their ears. There is not even a special walk or helping hands, a gurney or a wheelchair should have been an obvious choice, but no, *reality* is the first priority. We need to count animations first in each pack, not another tshirt or rug as new assets.
Some players absolutely do not use mods and CC - we expect that from the people who make the game - so speak for yourself. I do not want content from you - I want recolors from the people who actually make the game - the stuff I do not have to worry about every time the game updates. Been there - done that - won't do it and shouldn't have to. I appreciate all the recolors MAXIS can add. So please do not decide for me what I want and what I prefer to come from Maxis.. Tell me only when CC and mod makers can make stuff that always works with game updates and recodes - then maybe I might care what they make.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
There it is right there. They like to give us what we want. correct?
What do we talk about every day we want whats in Sims 3 lol, we beg and beg for recycling. We want seasons. we wanted laundry we want University we want, everything over again.
We refuse to allow them to go on a new path.
since their main gold is to please us they do so.
Is it fair to Criticize them when they do as we ask?
So they are giving us what we want and doing it better with new Technology.
Now I have noticed we are now wanting Sims 2 also put in Sims 4.
Now that's simply not fair, everyone knows that 2+ 3 = 5 We would have to wait for Sims 5 for all that
And did anybody asked for social interactions to have exact same animation over and over again in all different interactions? No.
Did anybody asked for objects to look identical the same but come as separate ones because who hell knows why they didn't come as a new color swatch instead? No.
Again, what are you trying to prove anything? In analogy, I'm ranting about food, but you're trying to counter argue by praising... drinks(?) which I can already agree with my last comment wasn't obvious hint I do agree with the comment that players always wanted content to be recycled and I accept that concepts should be carried over from one game/sequal to another. I don't agree however... *insert the thing I kept on repeating which I no longer continue to be broken record set on repeat*.
As for somebody who brought up an interesting fact that "creating animation nowadays is so darn expensive", then why can't they simply make them hold a more bigger gameplay impact other than executing different animations and relationship gain/drop?
Remember you are Criticizing humans such as yourself. While you may get a perfect game and fill a void in your life. But can you remove the depression you fill in theirs?
I really don't care to be honest. If I had to meet a waitress that doesn't know how to her job (being all rude condescending and all), I would, of course, criticize her despite how others find her cute and sweet and maybe I'll even go talk to the manager with the report about how she doesn't know how to treat customers properly.
Dragoncat - Study programming and perhaps you will find the answer to your own last question - just to see what is involved even in a simple eye blink or a wave of a hand - you can even start getting familar with the art of programming right on the net - and then maybe you will see for yourself.... Look at C++ and C# programming and all it's many languages - all it's ins and out... Programming is one book you absolutely need to first not judge by the cover - and need intent study of first - and once you've mustered that - then get into study of machine language and animation with coding, etc, etc...
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I think the toddlers were always meant to be in the base game because its the only way it would work, after all, they are part of the Sims family. Think about it, if you give birth to a baby in sims 4 you age it up to a toddler only if you buy the pack, NoWay! I think that would have been unreasonable.
I do not feel they ever had the intention of selling the toddler apart from the base pack.
Those are some beautiful toddlers and with very lifelike animations. It would take about two years in creating them.
DLC for DLC you mean. Think the ‘no way’ has been proved disputable to say the least in the meantime.
"Constructive Criticism helps, on the other hand." "Nothing Spoils Creativity more than Constant Criticism".
by stormsview
Remember you are Criticizing humans such as yourself. While you may get a perfect game and fill a void in your life. But can you remove the depression you fill in theirs?
“It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one.”
by Chuck
I can not see anyone that Truly have Sims 4 and enough of the packs to enjoy it and have our wonderful Cats&Dogs EP could ever agree Sims 4 only.... (RECYCLING OLD CONTENT AND A LACK OF CREATIVITY IN DEVELOPMENT) Is this the Motherlode of Unfair Criticism?? Sure they have the right to, but is it fair.?
The problem adressed in this topic is actually lack of creativity (well, in reality lack of money or time probably, but the result is lack of creativity). Everyone’s allowed to criticize that when they dislike that. If I may take my example of the cheat sheet (to pull it away from the everybody hates Sims 4-argument that isn’t an argument but a sophism): I Truly have Sims 3 and enough of the packs to enjoy it (all, in fact), but that writing a cheat sheet is an annoying interaction because of the recycling instead of the new and enjoyable feature it could have been. For me it spoiled the experience completely. I’d expect a sim looking around anxiously while writing it, covering it with their hand and using their study book. Nothing like the homework animation where they write things down clearly by trying to figure things out and remember it (you don’t need a cheat sheet when you manage to do that). Then putting it away in their sock or something. I’d also expect the sheet to be tiny, not a huge blue notebook kind of thing.
This topic is filled with constructive criticism.
ETA: hurray for Rebecca Black by the way but her song still was a bad song. I want good songs. I want a good game, not a company making millions delivering a poor game. We apparently are in disagreement there. And yes, people want Seasons and they wanted Pets. Not recycled though.
Actually they apparently do want it recycled - they want it just like Sims 3 with the Fairs and everything from what is being posted. -
But DLC -
All the most popular games do it
How can some of you not see the difference between a) bringing (back) features from an older iteration to a newer one (seasons, pets - which requires remaking everything from scratch for that newer game), and b) recycling content within the very same iteration (which means you only have to do the work once, then just keep bringing it back over and over again and sell it off as something entirely new that's actually just the same with a different name)? I just don't see how that's the same at all. And no, I'm not at all against all forms of recycled content (I've said as much earlier in this thread then forgot to come back to it), if that means we get a lot of new content with the recycled stuff. What upsets people is that that's definitely not always the case with TS4.
And yes absolutely DLC is in, they all do it. But DLC for DLC? Well, that's EA's own special way of doing things.
This thread focuses way too much on DLC IMO because the tendencies in modern games are about something else:
1. More and more games become online games and big offline games will most likely disappear completely. There are more reasons for that and it isn’t just about all games becoming multiplayer games. It is also about the competition where fewer and fewer gamers want to buy expensive games before they even have tried those games and know if the games are worth their money.
2. So the game companies have to deal with the above tendency where “free” games “sell” much better than paid games. There are only three ways of doing that:
a. To make their games free too.
b. To release a free trial version which only can be played for free for some time but then has to be upgraded to the full game.
c. To offer a general subscription where (almost) all games from the company can be played for “free” as long as we pay this monthly subscription.
3. Because the games can’t really be sold for as high prices as earlier to try to compensate for that the game companies instead offer more and more expensive DLC and also want to earn a lot of money by showing adds in their games.
We see this mostly for mobile games just now. But mobile devices are now just as powerful as PCs were just a few years ago and PCs are now getting touch screens too. So the difference between mobile games and PC games are about to disappear. Therefore there isn’t any doubt that the tendencies we have already seen for mobile games also soon will be valid for PC games. Only console games will likely still be a little different but only because they are more suitable for games that need a special controller and a bigger screen.
So what does this mean for a game like TS4? Probably not more than we have already seen because TS4 won’t become an online game. But future Sims games for the PC probably will (maybe already TS5 but if not then surely TS6). I don’t believe in the idea that EA will make more DLC for TS4 which also will depend on earlier DLC because this usually would just hurt the sales numbers. So I see the MFP SP only as an exception where they wanted to use small pets as the new gameplay content in a SP but then only could see clothes for cats and dogs as a useful option for the main content. I don’t believe that EA will do something like that again.
"Constructive Criticism helps, on the other hand." "Nothing Spoils Creativity more than Constant Criticism".
by stormsview
Remember you are Criticizing humans such as yourself. While you may get a perfect game and fill a void in your life. But can you remove the depression you fill in theirs?
“It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one.”
by Chuck
I can not see anyone that Truly have Sims 4 and enough of the packs to enjoy it and have our wonderful Cats&Dogs EP could ever agree Sims 4 only.... (RECYCLING OLD CONTENT AND A LACK OF CREATIVITY IN DEVELOPMENT) Is this the Motherlode of Unfair Criticism?? Sure they have the right to, but is it fair.?
The problem adressed in this topic is actually lack of creativity (well, in reality lack of money or time probably, but the result is lack of creativity). Everyone’s allowed to criticize that when they dislike that. If I may take my example of the cheat sheet (to pull it away from the everybody hates Sims 4-argument that isn’t an argument but a sophism): I Truly have Sims 3 and enough of the packs to enjoy it (all, in fact), but that writing a cheat sheet is an annoying interaction because of the recycling instead of the new and enjoyable feature it could have been. For me it spoiled the experience completely. I’d expect a sim looking around anxiously while writing it, covering it with their hand and using their study book. Nothing like the homework animation where they write things down clearly by trying to figure things out and remember it (you don’t need a cheat sheet when you manage to do that). Then putting it away in their sock or something. I’d also expect the sheet to be tiny, not a huge blue notebook kind of thing.
This topic is filled with constructive criticism.
ETA: hurray for Rebecca Black by the way but her song still was a bad song. I want good songs. I want a good game, not a company making millions delivering a poor game. We apparently are in disagreement there. And yes, people want Seasons and they wanted Pets. Not recycled though.
Actually they apparently do want it recycled - they want it just like Sims 3 with the Fairs and everything from what is being posted. -
But DLC -
All the most popular games do it
How can some of you not see the difference between a) bringing (back) features from an older iteration to a newer one (seasons, pets - which requires remaking everything from scratch for that newer game), and b) recycling content within the very same iteration (which means you only have to do the work once, then just keep bringing it back over and over again and sell it off as something entirely new that's actually just the same with a different name)? I just don't see how that's the same at all. And no, I'm not at all against all forms of recycled content (I've said as much earlier in this thread then forgot to come back to it), if that means we get a lot of new content with the recycled stuff. What upsets people is that that's definitely not always the case with TS4.
And yes absolutely DLC is in, they all do it. But DLC for DLC? Well, that's EA's own special way of doing things.
Not just EA - as I have many games that get expansion that contain just new designs and color of weapons, armor, sets with just different names, changed abilities, a blade widened or narrowed and they have been doing it for years - saw it over and over in Baldurs Gate, Diablo, etc - etc. Zelda sometimes they did not even change the colors - just the same outfits much like Bellas same red dress... not just an EA thing - far from it. WOW does it all the time - same saber tooth tiger with different colors or eyes , mounts, armors, weapons - same item add some spikes, add different ability from the fire version to the ice version - but under all that decor - same item. CC makers use EA meshes - technically the same thing under a longer skirt or a higher neckline or a few things added or taken away - but the mesh - the thing that took all the work to make that item usable and wearable is the same item....Trying going to the root of all the meshes or all new meshes - not just reworks of EA meshes and then make them work in the game. Good luck with that.
That great mod to make pets controllable - the so called creator themself said it was easy - it WAS all in the game - just never turned on or activated (for players use) - all they did was activate it - but who gets all the credit - Maxis who had the programming in the game and chose not to activate it (there are issues with it by the way) or the guy who flipped the switch and who admitted they flipped the switch...
In their own words: "This mod simply unlocks the ability to control pets. It does not add, change, or fix any pet interactions that are not already in the game. Since these were not meant to be used by players, there may be bugs with some of them. You may get lastException errors, and your sims or pets may reset when using some of them. If this bothers you, do not download."
From Sims4studios thread.
Post edited by Writin_Reg on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Comments
This topic is filled with constructive criticism.
ETA: hurray for Rebecca Black by the way but her song still was a bad song. I want good songs. I want a good game, not a company making millions delivering a poor game. We apparently are in disagreement there. And yes, people want Seasons and they wanted Pets. Not recycled though.
I've used the new Selvadoran recipes along with the Mexican recipes from CL to build a Mexican/Selvadoran restaurant in Brindleton Bay. Still need to playtest it before uploading to the Gallery but I basically took the Rattlesnake Bar from BG and expanded it, added an outdoor patio and bar and a few other improvements.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
There is a difference between wanting a previous theme like say seasons, university and pets and blatant recycling of things like clothes and furniture. Example is on this thread of the same chair re coloured or as the original example the exact same pattern re used between packs. Or the doctor career being recycled to make the vet career because the doctor career is either bugged or exceptionally flawed with employees standing about doing nothing all day long. They don’t even now attend to the reception desk. Last time I played a member of staff stood outside all day and another sat in a child’s chair in the waiting room which I thought was pretty funny considering the patients don’t even use the waiting room chairs. But yet that flawed system was recycled to make the vet career, the vet career funnily enough to nobody’s surprise has the same issues. That is when recycling shouldn’t happen. But then to be honest it’s nothing short of a disgrace that get to work was sold broken with two of the careers not working.
I don’t know why a few in this thread can not grasp that. Or perhaps they just do and don’t want to admit the game has flaws.
Feedback is good for the developers as long as it’s constructive. If you don’t tell them what’s wrong things wouldn’t get fixed. Take the ball pit for example. You aren’t hurting their feelings to do so and you aren’t doing them any favours by telling them the sims 4 is the best game ever.
I’m married to a game developer - he wants to know what I enjoy but he also wants to know what I like and what I don’t like and even though it can be an awkward conversation face to face with someone telling them that something is less than perfect -my Husband wants to know. I think if anything he would be hurt I didn’t tell him.
The sims devs are not our friends, nor our family and if we are polite and constructive there is nothing wrong with giving feedback. I don’t like recycling. I never will amd I’m not surprised the community accepts it so happily.
A good song to one person might be total garbage to someone else. I have a very eclectic music taste, but while I might extol Bruckner's 7th Symphony (I dated a French horn player in college and he's the one to blame for getting me into Bruckner) you or anyone else might be bored to tears with classical music. There are video games that other people love that I just can't get the hang of or they're not my cup of tea. And you know what? That's okay -- people can enjoy different things.
It actually makes some sense to "recycle" or reuse previous content and programming in new features. In terms of cost accounting, they can spread out the cost of producing that programming feature (retail/restaurants/etc.) over multiple packs, thus sparing more budget for new features. No need to reinvent the wheel after all. If they'd had to develop an entire new system, we may not have gotten such a large jungle to explore -- that's another thing to consider.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Yeah, strange that 'good' EPs, SPs and GPs only seem to appear when Sims 4 isn't doing so well, almost seems that the nickel-and-diming they're doing has nothing to do with team or budget but is actually deliberate.
I'm being reminded of an old South Park episode, where a 'trailer' for a film says at one point: "It's Jim Carrey in, whatever, you'll pay to go see it", well in this case it's EA-xis saying: "It's the Sims, whatever, you'll buy it".
I disagree about the new technology and there are a few features that does that and for me it is not enough, if they were using the technology of today entensively I would have an color wheel, CAST and the other features that was available in the last version. Yes it would be recycled but the features that was recycled would be necessary for me to take my game to new heights and then I would be an ruler. Emotions, Lot Traits I do get excited for. Games that are part of an franchise uses old with the new and not the other way around and toss everything, you have to tweak what you have and be serious about it and also believe in your product. For example EA/Maxis showed no belief in Sim City 2015 and that is one of the reasons why it failed because they did not tweak it like they should. Yes, Sims 4 may run smoothly for most folks being it has few features that does not stress the game or it's most of it's customers. There are games more demanding than this and I play them. Sims 4 has improved but it needs much more of the new tech that is out now and it is too late to incorporate those features being Sims 4 path has been written one may have to wait for Sims 5 and no telling if it is going to happen.
I strongly disagree with your statement about recycling. Adding new animations for different interactions is not reinventing the wheel. Like I said, in the cheat sheet example the reused animation was totally off even. And seeing the same animation for several different interactions is a bore to me, fresh and new animations is just as important as brand new content (like the jungle). If one excludes the other something’s terribly wrong. I don’t want having to choose between a good graduation system and a decent cheat sheets system. It’s beyond me why we’d have to except that.
Maybe you would if EA still had released the toddlers. But I am quite sure that this never would have happened because the only reason that EA suddenly made and released the toddlers anyway for me to see clearly must have been as a desperate move to get higher and more acceptable sales numbers for the packs - and it also seems to have worked. I see MFP more like a sign that EA has had a hard time to get enough ideas for all the 4-5 SPs that EA clearly has decided to make for TS4. So when simmers started to complain about the missing smaller pets in Cats&Dogs then EA likely got the idea to release them in a SP. But the SP of course needed more content. So what could that be? Clothes for cats and dogs likely were their only idea. So the result became MFP. At least that is how I see it
I think the toddlers were always meant to be in the base game because its the only way it would work, after all, they are part of the Sims family.
Think about it, if you give birth to a baby in sims 4 you age it up to a toddler only if you buy the pack, NoWay! I think that would have been unreasonable.
I do not feel they ever had the intention of selling the toddler apart from the base pack.
Those are some beautiful toddlers and with very lifelike animations. It would take about two years in creating them.
Who said EA doesn't have a sense of humor
The toddlers became nice when they released them. But it can’t have taken more time for them to make the toddlers anyway than they usually use on a GP which they can make in just about 4 months.
Also EA never would have let them use that much time on making toddlers as free content unless EA was desperate and believed that impressing toddlers were the only thing that could get the sales numbers for TS4 packs up to an acceptable level. And the reviews all over the web surely confirmed EA in this! Therefore I am still sure that toddlers were made in desperation and not at all as a part of EA’s original plans for TS4.
Your right They did want toddlers to be impressive. and that they did, and No recycling. They made Sims 4 Toddlers from Scratch. So very Creative
Maxis has finally put toddlers, a life-state that was present in The Sims 3, into The Sims 4.
All the way back in 2014, Maxis revealed that The Sims 4 would be lacking a couple of key features that were present in The Sims 3. They were pools and toddlers. This naturally caused a pretty big outrage among fans and led to a petition. Now, more than two years after the game's initial release date, Maxis has finally delivered, adding toddlers into the game with a free patch.
"Today is a big day for The Sims 4," wrote Maxis in a blog post. "We're excited to announce the biggest update for The Sims 4 to date, and it comes in a surprisingly "little" package. Toddlers* are available as a free update for you to download into your game right now!"
I'm not exaggerating when I say we've been talking about this particular update for years. We just had to find the right time, resources and design to allow us to start the heavy process of actually building and bringing Toddlers to life. And believe me when I say it has been really REALLY difficult to not talk about this as we worked to get it right," it added.
Maxis certainly isn't joking about the size of this updated: you'll need to set aside 1.9GB to download it. The update adds the toddler life state alongside 6 toddler hairs, 2 toddler hats, 3 toddler glasses, 8 toddler tops, 6 toddler full body outfits, 8 toddler bottoms, 3 toddler body accessories and 3 toddler shoes. There are also 8 unique toddler traits and 19 toddler-specific
new items.
((They seem to know that toddlers belonged to the simmers from the start and would have never thought to sell them outside of an update.))
Who said EA doesn't have a sense of humor
1. The developers aren’t very often simmers themselves. When they list their own favorite games they usually list very different games instead. This shouldn’t be surprising at all because their education is about making games in general and for all platforms. Also the developers in Salt Lake City had mainly just made a lot of Tiger Woods golf games before EA suddenly chose them to make Sims games and also to release 4 EPs for TS3 in only 2 years (2012 and 2013). So of course a lot of those developers likely preferred sports games over Sims games.
2. EA’s top managers are mainly interested in sports games and action games too and they don’t really understand why people are playing Sims games. They negotiated of course with Rachel Franklin about this. But on https://simsvip.com/2015/09/14/rachel-franklin-on-the-future-of-the-sims-4/ she says:
”(Q) So you’re satisfied that not having toddlers was the right choice?
Rachel Franklin: That’s the decision that we made based on all of the information that we had at the time. So absolutely, I feel like it’s the best decision for the game to date. I’m not talking about future stuff. But I do think it’s important to know, that players play in very different ways. We see all kinds of different play styles and family players are very passionate, so are players that play other ways.
And I want to make sure that all of those voices are considered when people are thinking about whether or not we’ve included the right things. Because we do, we take it very seriously about whether or not we’re approaching all of those different play styles. We take it just as seriously as the players do that are asking for the things that they want.”
So again: EA knows that simmers play in different ways and that a lot of young simmers seem to be more interested in romance, flirting and partying than in raising kids. Therefore EA chose to use less money on babies, toddlers, children and teens than in the previous games and the plan can’t IMO have been to change that later.
Actually they apparently do want it recycled - they want it just like Sims 3 with the Fairs and everything from what is being posted. -
But DLC -
All the most popular games do it -
https://the-artifice.com/expansion-packs-dlc-evolution-additional-video-game-content/
ETA - Rebecca Black is still going strong - so even a bad song can make someone a star....
Also real life itself is nothing but recycled content - the world revolves and makes rules that we must do the same things day after day, the same way, day in and out - from the time we get up to we go to bed. When humans deviate from what is expected - we are branded dubious, deviates, rebellious against society - the wild child - we are told to get with the program and grow up - that life has rules and we all must follow those rules or else. The world runs in recycled circles - why would we ever expect a game about life to be different. Life is not just an everyday adventure but with each generation a more modernizing life of what our ancestors did before us. Different and new in real life will get one branded as eccentric or an outsider or just plain messed up - and in jobs will get you fired - must follow the rules of exactness you know. That is life - of course unless you are rich and can do what ever you want I suppose.
We are good little robots - for that is what life is all about... afterall. Heck nowaday movies, tv and books even seem to be dlc and remakes that make the most money - new shows are tossed to bring back the old often just like we left them. The most money makers are just continuations of what made them popular years ago. Block buster grow out of mankinds desire to see what happened next or since. Life really is recycled everything. People obviously do not want new and different - they want the sameo - sameo - Star Wars any body - Superheros are also all back - RoseAnne is back - what's new and most popular is what is old and now.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Okay toddlers is one of the only thing where TS4 is shining. But it's just not enough.
Nope - some of the devs in Salt Lake City were devs that worked on Sims 2 (some were new) - I know because I tested Showtime for them and knew these devs from Sims 2. That PCA Golf was made by EA devs - they and one of EAs mobile divisions had studios in the Salt Lake City Studios well before Sims 3 Store was started there. The only crossover with EA Golf was for the Tiger Woods Golf game during Sims 2's development Sam Player who headed a lot on Tiger Woods Golf games -not in Salt Lake City but at the Redwood City Campus - did work on and head a couple of Sims 2 games made at Redwood City campus - Bon Voyage was one of the games he headed and Free Time for Sims 2 as well. But he never worked on Sims 3 - at all.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
With our talented cc creators, we got enough recolors going around, plus brand new 3D meshes of hair, clothing, shoes, accessories, furnitures and tons of makeups, tatoos etc we do not need EA to spend their expensive time on that (everyone should google and follow at least one cc site, sims4update, lana cc finds, thesimsresource etc, you will see what I'm talking about).
For example, I remember when we asked about Pets not being controllable, they told us that pets would be more realistic that way and they prefer to spend more time on the Vet career (which is even more disappointing than the Doctor career). If you ever played a Doctor, the collapsed patients would stand up right away and walk to the surgery table after the Doctor whispers in their ears. There is not even a special walk or helping hands, a gurney or a wheelchair should have been an obvious choice, but no, *reality* is the first priority. We need to count animations first in each pack, not another tshirt or rug as new assets.
And did anybody asked for social interactions to have exact same animation over and over again in all different interactions? No.
Did anybody asked for objects to look identical the same but come as separate ones because who hell knows why they didn't come as a new color swatch instead? No.
Again, what are you trying to prove anything? In analogy, I'm ranting about food, but you're trying to counter argue by praising... drinks(?) which I can already agree with my last comment wasn't obvious hint I do agree with the comment that players always wanted content to be recycled and I accept that concepts should be carried over from one game/sequal to another. I don't agree however... *insert the thing I kept on repeating which I no longer continue to be broken record set on repeat*.
As for somebody who brought up an interesting fact that "creating animation nowadays is so darn expensive", then why can't they simply make them hold a more bigger gameplay impact other than executing different animations and relationship gain/drop?
I really don't care to be honest. If I had to meet a waitress that doesn't know how to her job (being all rude condescending and all), I would, of course, criticize her despite how others find her cute and sweet and maybe I'll even go talk to the manager with the report about how she doesn't know how to treat customers properly.
Before the 4 Sims 3 EPs released in 2012 and 2013 Headgate/EA Salt Lake had only released two Sims games:
1. The Sims 2 Pets on Wii (2007)
2. The Sims 3 Pets on 3DS (2011)
But even as an EA studio they also made sports games:
1. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08 on PlayStation 2, Wii and Windows (2007)
2. Madden NFL 08 on Windows (2007)
Beside that they made three Littlest Pet Shop games for Wii and Nintendo DS in 2008-2010.
I don’t know if any of the Sims developers moved the 11 hours away (by car) to Salt Lake from Redwood just to help EA’s new studio to get started with Sims games instead of their usual sports games. But if so it likely only were one or two developers because it isn’t easy to move that far away if you have your own house and family where your spouse also has a job.
Some players absolutely do not use mods and CC - we expect that from the people who make the game - so speak for yourself. I do not want content from you - I want recolors from the people who actually make the game - the stuff I do not have to worry about every time the game updates. Been there - done that - won't do it and shouldn't have to. I appreciate all the recolors MAXIS can add. So please do not decide for me what I want and what I prefer to come from Maxis.. Tell me only when CC and mod makers can make stuff that always works with game updates and recodes - then maybe I might care what they make.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Dragoncat - Study programming and perhaps you will find the answer to your own last question - just to see what is involved even in a simple eye blink or a wave of a hand - you can even start getting familar with the art of programming right on the net - and then maybe you will see for yourself.... Look at C++ and C# programming and all it's many languages - all it's ins and out... Programming is one book you absolutely need to first not judge by the cover - and need intent study of first - and once you've mustered that - then get into study of machine language and animation with coding, etc, etc...
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
How can some of you not see the difference between a) bringing (back) features from an older iteration to a newer one (seasons, pets - which requires remaking everything from scratch for that newer game), and b) recycling content within the very same iteration (which means you only have to do the work once, then just keep bringing it back over and over again and sell it off as something entirely new that's actually just the same with a different name)? I just don't see how that's the same at all. And no, I'm not at all against all forms of recycled content (I've said as much earlier in this thread then forgot to come back to it), if that means we get a lot of new content with the recycled stuff. What upsets people is that that's definitely not always the case with TS4.
And yes absolutely DLC is in, they all do it. But DLC for DLC? Well, that's EA's own special way of doing things.
1. More and more games become online games and big offline games will most likely disappear completely. There are more reasons for that and it isn’t just about all games becoming multiplayer games. It is also about the competition where fewer and fewer gamers want to buy expensive games before they even have tried those games and know if the games are worth their money.
2. So the game companies have to deal with the above tendency where “free” games “sell” much better than paid games. There are only three ways of doing that:
a. To make their games free too.
b. To release a free trial version which only can be played for free for some time but then has to be upgraded to the full game.
c. To offer a general subscription where (almost) all games from the company can be played for “free” as long as we pay this monthly subscription.
3. Because the games can’t really be sold for as high prices as earlier to try to compensate for that the game companies instead offer more and more expensive DLC and also want to earn a lot of money by showing adds in their games.
We see this mostly for mobile games just now. But mobile devices are now just as powerful as PCs were just a few years ago and PCs are now getting touch screens too. So the difference between mobile games and PC games are about to disappear. Therefore there isn’t any doubt that the tendencies we have already seen for mobile games also soon will be valid for PC games. Only console games will likely still be a little different but only because they are more suitable for games that need a special controller and a bigger screen.
So what does this mean for a game like TS4? Probably not more than we have already seen because TS4 won’t become an online game. But future Sims games for the PC probably will (maybe already TS5 but if not then surely TS6). I don’t believe in the idea that EA will make more DLC for TS4 which also will depend on earlier DLC because this usually would just hurt the sales numbers. So I see the MFP SP only as an exception where they wanted to use small pets as the new gameplay content in a SP but then only could see clothes for cats and dogs as a useful option for the main content. I don’t believe that EA will do something like that again.
Not just EA - as I have many games that get expansion that contain just new designs and color of weapons, armor, sets with just different names, changed abilities, a blade widened or narrowed and they have been doing it for years - saw it over and over in Baldurs Gate, Diablo, etc - etc. Zelda sometimes they did not even change the colors - just the same outfits much like Bellas same red dress... not just an EA thing - far from it. WOW does it all the time - same saber tooth tiger with different colors or eyes , mounts, armors, weapons - same item add some spikes, add different ability from the fire version to the ice version - but under all that decor - same item. CC makers use EA meshes - technically the same thing under a longer skirt or a higher neckline or a few things added or taken away - but the mesh - the thing that took all the work to make that item usable and wearable is the same item....Trying going to the root of all the meshes or all new meshes - not just reworks of EA meshes and then make them work in the game. Good luck with that.
That great mod to make pets controllable - the so called creator themself said it was easy - it WAS all in the game - just never turned on or activated (for players use) - all they did was activate it - but who gets all the credit - Maxis who had the programming in the game and chose not to activate it (there are issues with it by the way) or the guy who flipped the switch and who admitted they flipped the switch...
In their own words: "This mod simply unlocks the ability to control pets. It does not add, change, or fix any pet interactions that are not already in the game. Since these were not meant to be used by players, there may be bugs with some of them. You may get lastException errors, and your sims or pets may reset when using some of them. If this bothers you, do not download."
From Sims4studios thread.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....