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Culling, Relationship Culling & Decay: Current Status

Comments

  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 30,745 Member
    edited December 2016
    imhappy wrote: »
    Thanks for putting this together. Recently I noticed that some of my sims have negative relationships with other sims. And I never introduced them to each other. Is this adding negative relationships new? Or an anti-culling, story progression feature? Or is it just my game? (I do play with mods)

    It's new, I believe, since about a year ago. When two Sims meet in the background, there are two kinds of outcomes:

    A. Just acquaintances
    B. 45%-level (stronger) relationship in one of three kinds:
    B-1. "Friend" - 45% positive on the friendship scale
    B-2. "Dislike" - 45% negative on the friendship scale
    B-3. "Sweetheart" (I might have the level name wrong for that one) - 45% positive on the romance scale

    I believe that which of the three it ends up being has to do with how they greet each other. I don't know the proportion of each of the A and B options.

    History of this:
    The B-3 was reported since launch by Simmers; the B-1 and B-2 and an increase in B-3 were reported since December '15 (which is also when Get Together introduced new autonomous greeting animations for Sims with high-level relationships, so we see more variety). The late-November or early-December '16 patch removed the B-3 option for played married Sims.

    Modding this:
    • There are some mod options that prohibit autonomous flirty greeting, a control for B-3.
    • MC Command Centre can delete relationships so that you make Sims "forget" each other. You can choose which relationship bars you want deleted.
    • UI Cheats Extensions lets you reset the relationship levels to ones you want but I believe it doesn't delete the bars.
    • There was a beta mod on Tumblr that stopped the 45% relationships from forming at all but I've not seen if it's had a full release.
    FAQ: culling relationship decay
    #freethebabies #TeamToasters #TeamPlayableGnomes #TeamFarms #FarmTeam #BouncyCastle!!
  • keekee53keekee53 Posts: 2,728 Member
    Thanks guys for this. This is a huge hurdle for me with this game. Understanding the process helps me take preventative action if or when I start playing again. I have it bookmarked.
  • VaxfiendVaxfiend Posts: 44 Member
    Good info. May explain disappearing faces from my ancestral tree!
  • plopppo2plopppo2 Posts: 3,420 Member
    What are we supposed to do here? Is this for information or are we supposed to say how we would improve the culling system, etc? What are we meant to be doing here?
  • plopppo2plopppo2 Posts: 3,420 Member
    Ah, I re-read it - it is for information purposes.
  • kinot9229kinot9229 Posts: 489 Member
    Thanks for starting this thread!
    This is really helpful!
  • chidoriaidachidoriaida Posts: 264 Member
    Thanks for posting the info. I do manually delete townies to keep other sims from culling. This is very helpful knowing that the cap was upped to around 305.
  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 30,745 Member
    edited December 2016
    plopppo2 wrote: »
    What are we supposed to do here? Is this for information or are we supposed to say how we would improve the culling system, etc? What are we meant to be doing here?

    It's for not having to retype every time someone wants details, plus people who don't use mods or want to get away from using mods can use this info to decide if things are working in a way they can live with. Suggestions for improvement have plenty of other places to go, as noted in the OP.

    EDIT: Just saw your second post :)
    FAQ: culling relationship decay
    #freethebabies #TeamToasters #TeamPlayableGnomes #TeamFarms #FarmTeam #BouncyCastle!!
  • OxanaPihlajamaaOxanaPihlajamaa Posts: 144 Member
    Whoa, this thread is awesome, thank you guys for the information on this topic! Culling was one of the most important reasons I took a break from playing for a while (a few months), and now it seems it has improved a bit. :) It's time for me to test the game again. :)
    580b57dcd.png
    My Sims Twitter: @storyofmagdalen
  • LeGardePourpreLeGardePourpre Posts: 9,394 Member
    edited December 2016
    In my case, the Culling began when my population reached 315 sims (including 4 Jasmine Holiday and Grim Reaper).

    Note: The 4 Jasmine Holiday households were removed by the game.
  • lotarylotary Posts: 111 Member
    Thanks for making this thread! It helps me to get back into my game :)
    Origin ID: lotary00
  • MVWdeZTMVWdeZT Posts: 2,782 Member
    Great thread! And I just want to report that I'm on Generation 5 in my dynasty, and all the ancestors show up in my Sim's family tree, including Dennis Kim and Vivian Lewis (Gen 2 married Olivia S-K-L). Many of them are ghosts now, but they still show up.
  • leo3487leo3487 Posts: 3,574 Member
    Thanks SimGuruLuth
  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 30,745 Member
    leo3487 wrote: »
    Thanks SimGuruLuth

    Ha! You're welcome :) mostly you can thank @Neia - I'm just simplifying the details she has. She's pretty awesome :)
    FAQ: culling relationship decay
    #freethebabies #TeamToasters #TeamPlayableGnomes #TeamFarms #FarmTeam #BouncyCastle!!
  • To7mTo7m Posts: 5,024 Member
    Just commenting so I know where to find this lol.

    Carry on... *whistles*

    --T
  • SimmzSimmz Posts: 64 Member
    Thanks. I wish they would make it so they didn't forget their in-laws. It's a little weird when your Sim has to be introduced to her sister's husband.
  • To7mTo7m Posts: 5,024 Member
    Ok, so my sims dead wife's ghost will be ok, because she is listed as a few of those special tags and her grave is on a played household?

    Phew!!

    --T
  • To7mTo7m Posts: 5,024 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    Further details

    Relationship Decay

    Decay for :
    - Sims in the active household
    - played Sims between -20 and 20

    No decay for :
    - played Sims above 20 or under -20
    - unplayed Sims

    Relationship Culling

    Culling for :
    - Played/Played or Played/Unplayed relationships when a Sim has more than 35 relationships
    - Unplayed/Unplayed relationships

    No culling for :
    - Relationships in the active household
    - Relationships with a special tag that prevents culling

    Special tags that prevent culling :
    - For played Sims only : First kiss, BFF, Good friends, Good friends (Evil), Divorced, Getting Married, Got cold feet, Left at the altar, Significant other, Lovebirds, Enemies with benefits, Lovers, Soulmates, Sweethearts, Total opposites, Enemy, Archenemies, Declared Archenemy, Partners in crime, Have done woohoo, Has been unfaithful, Cheated with, Leave at the altar, Have done woohoo recently, promised, Renewing vows, Pregnancy Birthparent, Widow, Widower,
    - For played and unplayed Sims : Brother, Sister, Son, Daughter, Grandchild, Grandparent, Parent, Stepsibling, Cousin, Aunt, Uncle, Niece, Nephew, Engaged, Married, Husband, Wife

    Some of these tags don't appear in the relationship panel, be cautious with those since they may not be fully implemented.

    Hey, @Neia how accurate is this now? I'm planning a save in which I want to rotate around a few of the families. I have marked them all as played, and I will be actively working on the relationships between households as part of the story but I want to know how it will effect it in general, how and which relationships will get culled? As long as it's not friends and family I'm not really too bothers as I don't like to let my sims know too many people, I hate having the cluttered panel with a kid of relationships I don't care about. If it will only effect those then I don't have to worry, right?

    --T
  • sassytxbratsassytxbrat Posts: 64 Member
    Ha! You're welcome :) mostly you can thank @Neia - I'm just simplifying the details she has. She's pretty awesome :)

    Adding my thanks. I have never understood the algorithm for the culling. I don't have generally play rotational, but I do try generational play and it always irks me to lose family tree members. This helps me out a lot.
    ~Teresa~
    My Sims 4 Gallery // EA ID: TSmetana
  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 30,745 Member
    A few relevant words from @SimGuruNinja today, as people discuss Vampire spawning.
    kwanzaabot wrote: »

    Thanks for the explanation. :)
    Although I really hope the team will consider patching in a job manager. I've had too many of my own (unhoused, unplayed) Sims culled in favour of another weirdo in a racoon suit.

    Culling, sim caps, & population management is a SUPER important topic for us internally; ESPECIALLY as the game grows with every patch & pack. I think we've been getting better and better about these issues as the game has matured, but we still have work to do. We'll keep at it! Promise!

    Earlier in the same topic, he noted that the Vamps spawned for the NPC role of Vamp-who-might-feed-on-you are early candidates for culling.
    FAQ: culling relationship decay
    #freethebabies #TeamToasters #TeamPlayableGnomes #TeamFarms #FarmTeam #BouncyCastle!!
  • SimGuruNinjaSimGuruNinja Posts: 914 SimGuru
    Thanks Luth!

    Here's the nitty gritty details for Vampire spawning specifically...

    NPC Vamps never bite and turn other Sims into Vampires.
    NPC Vamps are never moved into lots (except for the 2 lots by default in Forgotten Hollow)
    NPC Vamps will never replace a player Sim or any other Sim living in the world.

    Vampires generate at a small chance in all neighborhoods between 1am-5am as walk-bys (they don't live in a house or anything like that).
    They generate at a much higher chance in forgotten hollow and are almost guaranteed there.

    There are also ‘faux’ vampires that have a small chance of spawning between 10pm–2am. These aren't really Vampires, but humans who wear Vampire clothes, because they are posers and want to front like they're a real vampire. Like above, a small chance for them to appear in all worlds and a greater chance in forgotten hollow.

    Waiters and bartenders: These are just grabbed from Sims that exist in your world. If there are not enough Sims to fill this position (Sims are busy, they already have other jobs, they are not selectable for this job, etc.) the game generates a Sim to fill the role. This could be (but is not encouraged to be) a vampire. We did do work to make sure vampires don’t spawn by default if the job is scheduled for a day time shift.

    Vlads texts and tweets are not contained to forgotten hollow. He will occasionally visit a sleeping human Sim at night. This has a very high chance to occur the 1st time and then is dramatically lowered.
  • keekee53keekee53 Posts: 2,728 Member
    thanks @SimGuruNinja. I do have a few questions. If my player made vampire does not have a job, will they be used to fill in roles such as waiters, bartenders, food cart, etc.

    Can we get a self employed option at some point so they will not fill these roles? I don't want my vamps to work but I gave them jobs because I didn't want to see them in filler roles around towns.
  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 11,657 Member
    I hope you don't mind me adding a couple of pics to explain what I'm trying to figure out.

    Played%20Not%20In%20World_zpswip9coim.png

    Unplayed_zpsbwamismo.png

    I don't know how the 3 Played Not In World households ended up there. I have added lots of Unplayed, Not In World households in the hopes that some of them will show up as NPC restaurant staff, spa staff, etc and so far it seems to be working. I also wanted to cut down on the number of sims generated by the game. Also, which group is less likely to be culled?

    For my Unplayed, Not In World households I first moved them onto a lot then evicted them.
    Life only comes around once so do more of what makes you happy.
  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 30,745 Member
    I hope you don't mind me adding a couple of pics to explain what I'm trying to figure out.

    Played%20Not%20In%20World_zpswip9coim.png

    Unplayed_zpsbwamismo.png

    I don't know how the 3 Played Not In World households ended up there. I have added lots of Unplayed, Not In World households in the hopes that some of them will show up as NPC restaurant staff, spa staff, etc and so far it seems to be working. I also wanted to cut down on the number of sims generated by the game. Also, which group is less likely to be culled?

    For my Unplayed, Not In World households I first moved them onto a lot then evicted them.

    If you loaded those played households at any time while they were housed (and therefore loadable), they will have stayed marked played. If you had one of those Sims marked played then added others to its household in Manage Households, the whole household would be marked played.

    Only households that are both unplayed and unhoused get culled. The higher/more relationships your played Sims have with an unplayed+unhoused household, the less likely it is to be culled. I've not seen any suggestion that the NPC roles the Sims play make a difference.
    FAQ: culling relationship decay
    #freethebabies #TeamToasters #TeamPlayableGnomes #TeamFarms #FarmTeam #BouncyCastle!!
  • dizzydee_kdizzydee_k Posts: 451 Member
    Thank you @luthienrising and @Neia. This information eases my mind a bit. I've been doing my own culling for fear I would lose my fat Grim - with whom several of my Sims have formed friendships. I'd be heartbroken if he were to be suddenly replace by a new skinny one.
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