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  • aaronjc123aaronjc123 Posts: 1,114 Member
    edited October 2016
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    I see the gender patch for what it was: a marketing tool in the midst of transgendered bathroom controversy. It was poorly implemented and frankly, if I was a member of the trans community I would be insulted by the obviously meaningless pandering it entails. But that's neither here or there. I know a lot of people like the options and there are easy enough for me to avoid.

    I do however wish people would stop calling those opposed to it "bigoted". I thought name calling was against the rules? Not everyone is going to agree with your life style, and they are well within their rights to express concerns about additions to a video game without being insulted. Mods are the letting this happen why?

    Inclusion is important, and I think that family players would like some too. I think that is what all the heat is about. People might have been a bit surprised to see trans sims before toddlers. Basic life states being looked over for an obvious pandering to the trans community might not sit well with people who are waiting for more meaningful family play. Yes, it's great that you can now make your trans sims, but I still can't make my niece. Someone else can't make their toddler daughter, etc. If this gender patch were a sincere addition to the sims game then I might see it differently, but I don't think that it was.

    If someone thought homosexuality was wrong and shouldn't be in the Sims, you'd be well within your right to call them a bigot, because that is exactly what they would be. There isn't much else to it. What you're saying is no different to saying that people should be allowed to be racist because that's their opinion - fine, but expect a big backlash for publicly expressing those opinions.

    But who has ever said that in this discussion...? Those complaints don't exist here and CAN'T exist here because it's against the rules. Despite this, that strawman constantly pops up when people say things like "I hate how poor the textures look" or "I really think they could've spent that development time on something better." NOBODY has been bigoted here, yet somehow constant accusations of people being bigoted arise.

    It's really very simple: Sims 4 is a game we all play for entertainment. Best way to improve the product is to cater to the majority.

    Imagine you're in charge of a group outing of 50 people. You're all on vacation in Paris and wanna enjoy yourself, and you're the trip leader. Day one you ask what everyone wants to do, 30 people say to start with the Eiffel Tower, another 12 wanna see a museum, seven just want to get something to eat and there's one person that wants to go to some famous gay district in the area. You know what happens if you cater towards the one guy wanting to go to the gay district? Your group becomes rather upset because your priorities and leadership seem pretty off. When that's a pattern, people start leaving your group and making their own. That's exactly what we have here. The Eiffel tower supporters are basically the family players, the museum supporters are Seasons, the seven are probably supernatural or pets, and yeah, I don't even know if this community HAD any overt petitioners for a LGBT patch. When the pattern of catering to smaller desires and demands continues, people will stop playing. That's simply how it is, that's the way the world works. No one is saying they hate gay people, no one is saying the purposefully wish the gay community got nothing to make them happy, we're just acknowledging that that little bit of happiness can come at a huuuuge price that may not be worth it in the long run or in the grand scheme of things. I mean we already had gay sims, they just couldn't wear clothes of the opposite gender. That small little detail improvement however allegedly ate into six months (believe they stated this themselves...?) of development time. That's bad.

    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'. Like I said, the old thread was purged because it bordered on the downright offensive.

    I'm also not sure how the majority of Simmers reacted to the update - was there a poll showing conclusively that a majority were unhappy with it?
  • GivemeJazzGivemeJazz Posts: 18 Member
    Simanite wrote: »
    How is that bad? It looks like a great EP and it will give the team funds to make great future content.

    Your signature photo is amazing. They should use it to promote sims 4.
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'.

    if they made the patch optional it would have hurt nobody.
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • aaronjc123aaronjc123 Posts: 1,114 Member
    edited October 2016
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'.

    if they made the patch optional it would have hurt nobody.

    And in what way specifically did it hurt you? Do you have loads of male townies walking around in dresses and heels? Your only actual complaint was that you didn't want two Sims of the same sex having babies but that won't happen anyway unless you allow it to happen.
  • papersuitcasepapersuitcase Posts: 838 Member
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    If someone thought homosexuality was wrong and shouldn't be in the Sims, you'd be well within your right to call them a bigot, because that is exactly what they would be. There isn't much else to it. What you're saying is no different to saying that people should be allowed to be racist because that's their opinion - fine, but expect a big backlash for publicly expressing those opinions. I am generally content that such people don't feel confident enough to openly admit they feel that way - the world is a better place for it.

    I can be completely fine with what people do with themselves and their partners behind close doors, yet still have a say in what kind of entertainment I surround myself with. If I choose not to watch films about lesbians and gays for example, that does not make me a bigot. Same as I won't call you a bigot if you decided to never watch a single movie with a straight person in it. It's called personal taste. And when it's a game that has already been out for 2 years and we're all forced to take the update, then I think, at the very least, people should be allowed to complain without being bullied and name called.

    If someone chooses not to watch a movie with lesbians and gays because the movie has lesbians and gays, then that is definitely bigoted and there is no excuse for that. You are trying to excuse that kind of behaviour and mindset but it's wrong - always has been and always will be.

    A lot of religions and cultures are not allowed to watch such content. Just because someone does not partake in certain forms of entertainment doesn't make them bigoted.

    A lot of religions and cultures also call for the execution of homosexuals. That is wrong.

    What does this have to do with anything I said? The fact that some cultures persecute gays doesn't make it okay to call anyone a bigot for not partaking in LGBT entertainment.
  • aaronjc123aaronjc123 Posts: 1,114 Member
    edited October 2016
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    If someone thought homosexuality was wrong and shouldn't be in the Sims, you'd be well within your right to call them a bigot, because that is exactly what they would be. There isn't much else to it. What you're saying is no different to saying that people should be allowed to be racist because that's their opinion - fine, but expect a big backlash for publicly expressing those opinions. I am generally content that such people don't feel confident enough to openly admit they feel that way - the world is a better place for it.

    I can be completely fine with what people do with themselves and their partners behind close doors, yet still have a say in what kind of entertainment I surround myself with. If I choose not to watch films about lesbians and gays for example, that does not make me a bigot. Same as I won't call you a bigot if you decided to never watch a single movie with a straight person in it. It's called personal taste. And when it's a game that has already been out for 2 years and we're all forced to take the update, then I think, at the very least, people should be allowed to complain without being bullied and name called.

    If someone chooses not to watch a movie with lesbians and gays because the movie has lesbians and gays, then that is definitely bigoted and there is no excuse for that. You are trying to excuse that kind of behaviour and mindset but it's wrong - always has been and always will be.

    A lot of religions and cultures are not allowed to watch such content. Just because someone does not partake in certain forms of entertainment doesn't make them bigoted.

    A lot of religions and cultures also call for the execution of homosexuals. That is wrong.

    What does this have to do with anything I said? The fact that some cultures persecute gays doesn't make it okay to call anyone a bigot for not partaking in LGBT entertainment.

    I am making the point that just because something is part of a person's culture does not make it okay. That's a pathetic excuse. What kind of culture stops people from watching a movie because it has gay people in it? One that is regressive and backwards, of course. If a certain culture didn't let people watch dirty movies of any kind then fine - but singling out gay people is wrong.
  • LatinaBunnyLatinaBunny Posts: 4,652 Member
    edited October 2016
    So I guess the topic of this thread has run its course if simmers are now getting superpersonal with each other?

    ..Not that the topic wasn't kind of personal in the first place, it sounds like, what with some posts indirectly blaming the simmers who buy stuff for bringing down the quality of Sims series...?

    I'm so sorry for destroying your favorite sims series, guys and gals, lol.

    Am I not part of the True Sims Fans community anymore? :disappointed:

    Oh, well. *shrug*
    ~*~Occult Family Player player~*~
    (She/her)
  • papersuitcasepapersuitcase Posts: 838 Member
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'.

    if they made the patch optional it would have hurt nobody.

    And in what way specifically did it hurt you? Do you have loads of male townies walking around in dresses and heels? Your only actual complaint was that you didn't want two Sims of the same sex having babies but that won't happen anyway unless you allow it to happen.

    Some people do, yes. Also some male or female styles have been auto-flagged as gender neutral even though they aren't. It wont be long before a patch breaks the barrier completely and anyone who complains about trans sims being auto generated in their game will be called a bigot.

    I wont force my believes on you, so don't force them on others. We want options in our games. OPTIONS.
  • aaronjc123aaronjc123 Posts: 1,114 Member
    So I guess the topic of this thread has run its course if simmers are now getting superpersonal with each other?

    ..Not that the topic wasn't kind of personal in the first place, it sounds like, what with some posts indirectly blaming the simmers who buy stuff for bringing down the quality of Sims series...?

    I'm so sorry for destroying your favorite sims series, guys and gals, lol.

    Am I not part of the True Sims Fans community anymore? :disappointed:

    I was going to mention this before but this is exactly what it boils down to, I think - they seem to be angry because they think we are contributing to the degradation of the series so are lashing out against us by insulting us and being rude/confrontational/unpleasant in general.
  • aaronjc123aaronjc123 Posts: 1,114 Member
    edited October 2016
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'.

    if they made the patch optional it would have hurt nobody.

    And in what way specifically did it hurt you? Do you have loads of male townies walking around in dresses and heels? Your only actual complaint was that you didn't want two Sims of the same sex having babies but that won't happen anyway unless you allow it to happen.

    Some people do, yes. Also some male or female styles have been auto-flagged as gender neutral even though they aren't. It wont be long before a patch breaks the barrier completely and anyone who complains about trans sims being auto generated in their game will be called a bigot.

    I wont force my believes on you, so don't force them on others. We want options in our games. OPTIONS.

    Yeah I'm aware of certain styles being tagged under male/female - but this hardly translates to hordes of cross-dressing Sims overrunning the game and it seems like, for a majority of players, it hasn't been a recurrent issue, or an issue at all.

    But in any case, I asked mirta specifically, not everyone in general.

    I don't even know what your beliefs are - would you care to state them explicitly, if you're feeling courageous enough?
  • papersuitcasepapersuitcase Posts: 838 Member
    edited October 2016
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    If someone thought homosexuality was wrong and shouldn't be in the Sims, you'd be well within your right to call them a bigot, because that is exactly what they would be. There isn't much else to it. What you're saying is no different to saying that people should be allowed to be racist because that's their opinion - fine, but expect a big backlash for publicly expressing those opinions. I am generally content that such people don't feel confident enough to openly admit they feel that way - the world is a better place for it.

    I can be completely fine with what people do with themselves and their partners behind close doors, yet still have a say in what kind of entertainment I surround myself with. If I choose not to watch films about lesbians and gays for example, that does not make me a bigot. Same as I won't call you a bigot if you decided to never watch a single movie with a straight person in it. It's called personal taste. And when it's a game that has already been out for 2 years and we're all forced to take the update, then I think, at the very least, people should be allowed to complain without being bullied and name called.

    If someone chooses not to watch a movie with lesbians and gays because the movie has lesbians and gays, then that is definitely bigoted and there is no excuse for that. You are trying to excuse that kind of behaviour and mindset but it's wrong - always has been and always will be.

    A lot of religions and cultures are not allowed to watch such content. Just because someone does not partake in certain forms of entertainment doesn't make them bigoted.

    A lot of religions and cultures also call for the execution of homosexuals. That is wrong.

    What does this have to do with anything I said? The fact that some cultures persecute gays doesn't make it okay to call anyone a bigot for not partaking in LGBT entertainment.

    I am making the point that just because something is part of a person's culture does not make it okay. That's a pathetic excuse. What kind of culture stops people from watching a movie because it has gay people in it? One that is regressive and backwards, of course. If a certain culture didn't let people watch dirty movies of any kind then fine - but singling out gay people is wrong.

    You think something is regressive and backwards, others think another goes against their beliefs and do not want to partake. Don't you see? It's not about who is right or wrong here, it's about catering to BOTH sides: Those who want x y and z in their games, and those who do not.
  • aaronjc123aaronjc123 Posts: 1,114 Member
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    If someone thought homosexuality was wrong and shouldn't be in the Sims, you'd be well within your right to call them a bigot, because that is exactly what they would be. There isn't much else to it. What you're saying is no different to saying that people should be allowed to be racist because that's their opinion - fine, but expect a big backlash for publicly expressing those opinions. I am generally content that such people don't feel confident enough to openly admit they feel that way - the world is a better place for it.

    I can be completely fine with what people do with themselves and their partners behind close doors, yet still have a say in what kind of entertainment I surround myself with. If I choose not to watch films about lesbians and gays for example, that does not make me a bigot. Same as I won't call you a bigot if you decided to never watch a single movie with a straight person in it. It's called personal taste. And when it's a game that has already been out for 2 years and we're all forced to take the update, then I think, at the very least, people should be allowed to complain without being bullied and name called.

    If someone chooses not to watch a movie with lesbians and gays because the movie has lesbians and gays, then that is definitely bigoted and there is no excuse for that. You are trying to excuse that kind of behaviour and mindset but it's wrong - always has been and always will be.

    A lot of religions and cultures are not allowed to watch such content. Just because someone does not partake in certain forms of entertainment doesn't make them bigoted.

    A lot of religions and cultures also call for the execution of homosexuals. That is wrong.

    What does this have to do with anything I said? The fact that some cultures persecute gays doesn't make it okay to call anyone a bigot for not partaking in LGBT entertainment.

    I am making the point that just because something is part of a person's culture does not make it okay. That's a pathetic excuse. What kind of culture stops people from watching a movie because it has gay people in it? One that is regressive and backwards, of course. If a certain culture didn't let people watch dirty movies of any kind then fine - but singling out gay people is wrong.

    You think something is regressive and backwards, others think another goes against their beliefs and do not want to partake. Don't you see? It's not about who is right or wrong here, it'd about catering to BOTH sides: Those who want x y and z in their games, and those who do not.

    Oh I get your point - that isn't the issue here. I just don't agree with it, and I don't respect all opinions or beliefs. I've never pretended to either.
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,969 Member
    aaronjc123 wrote: »

    Yeah I'm aware of certain styles being tagged under male/female - but this hardly translates to hordes of cross-dressing Sims overrunning the game.

    But in any case, I asked mirta specifically, not everyone in general.

    I don't even know what your beliefs are - would you care to state them explicitly, if you're feeling courageous enough?

    and I'm asking you, how does me not wanting it in MY game hurt you? How is it dominating over a minority if the patch was OPTIONAL?
    The new thang that I do now is 100 baby challenge in The Sims 3 (it's my first time!)!


  • aaronjc123aaronjc123 Posts: 1,114 Member
    edited October 2016
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »

    Yeah I'm aware of certain styles being tagged under male/female - but this hardly translates to hordes of cross-dressing Sims overrunning the game.

    But in any case, I asked mirta specifically, not everyone in general.

    I don't even know what your beliefs are - would you care to state them explicitly, if you're feeling courageous enough?

    and I'm asking you, how does me not wanting it in MY game hurt you? How is it dominating over a minority if the patch was OPTIONAL?

    It doesn't hurt me specifically - never claimed it did. I just think you're making a big deal about something that has very little if any impact on your gameplay considering you can just ignore pretty much all the features included (as I said, I'm aware of some people seeing Sims in opposite-sex clothing but I haven't seen anything to suggest that is something most people experience let alone yourself). I'm not sure how a majority of Simmers reacted to the update and I'm still waiting for clarification on that.
  • papersuitcasepapersuitcase Posts: 838 Member
    edited October 2016
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'.

    if they made the patch optional it would have hurt nobody.

    And in what way specifically did it hurt you? Do you have loads of male townies walking around in dresses and heels? Your only actual complaint was that you didn't want two Sims of the same sex having babies but that won't happen anyway unless you allow it to happen.

    Some people do, yes. Also some male or female styles have been auto-flagged as gender neutral even though they aren't. It wont be long before a patch breaks the barrier completely and anyone who complains about trans sims being auto generated in their game will be called a bigot.

    I wont force my believes on you, so don't force them on others. We want options in our games. OPTIONS.

    Yeah I'm aware of certain styles being tagged under male/female - but this hardly translates to hordes of cross-dressing Sims overrunning the game and it seems like, for a majority of players, it hasn't been a recurrent issue, or an issue at all.

    But in any case, I asked mirta specifically, not everyone in general.

    I don't even know what your beliefs are - would you care to state them explicitly, if you're feeling courageous enough?

    My belief is that this game is getting far too political and left sided. I think people who value traditional values, the nuclear family and wholesome fun are being left along the wayside in favor of a fast paced, loose, or trendy type of life style. I understand that some people want to live their sims lives out a certain way, but I am not seeing equal representation for both sides. The saddest part is when people do speak up and ask for options they get called names.
  • aaronjc123aaronjc123 Posts: 1,114 Member
    edited October 2016
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'.

    if they made the patch optional it would have hurt nobody.

    And in what way specifically did it hurt you? Do you have loads of male townies walking around in dresses and heels? Your only actual complaint was that you didn't want two Sims of the same sex having babies but that won't happen anyway unless you allow it to happen.

    Some people do, yes. Also some male or female styles have been auto-flagged as gender neutral even though they aren't. It wont be long before a patch breaks the barrier completely and anyone who complains about trans sims being auto generated in their game will be called a bigot.

    I wont force my believes on you, so don't force them on others. We want options in our games. OPTIONS.

    Yeah I'm aware of certain styles being tagged under male/female - but this hardly translates to hordes of cross-dressing Sims overrunning the game and it seems like, for a majority of players, it hasn't been a recurrent issue, or an issue at all.

    But in any case, I asked mirta specifically, not everyone in general.

    I don't even know what your beliefs are - would you care to state them explicitly, if you're feeling courageous enough?

    My belief is that this game is getting far too political and left sided. I think people who value traditional values, the nuclear family and wholesome fun are being left along the wayside in favor of a fast paced, loose, or trendy type of life style. I understand that some people want to live their sims lives out a certain way, but I am not seeing equal representation for both sides. The saddest part is when people do speak up and ask for options they get called names.

    Okay - fine. You want to play your Sims in a traditional way with the archetypal nuclear family. You can still do that - as can anyone else, myself included. Yes, the update was forced on everyone, but nobody is forcing you to play with transgender/cross-dressing/gay/trendy Sims. The option for you to play your game how you want was not removed in the update, at all.
  • LatinaBunnyLatinaBunny Posts: 4,652 Member
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'.

    if they made the patch optional it would have hurt nobody.

    And in what way specifically did it hurt you? Do you have loads of male townies walking around in dresses and heels? Your only actual complaint was that you didn't want two Sims of the same sex having babies but that won't happen anyway unless you allow it to happen.

    Some people do, yes. Also some male or female styles have been auto-flagged as gender neutral even though they aren't. It wont be long before a patch breaks the barrier completely and anyone who complains about trans sims being auto generated in their game will be called a bigot.

    I wont force my believes on you, so don't force them on others. We want options in our games. OPTIONS.

    Yeah I'm aware of certain styles being tagged under male/female - but this hardly translates to hordes of cross-dressing Sims overrunning the game and it seems like, for a majority of players, it hasn't been a recurrent issue, or an issue at all.

    But in any case, I asked mirta specifically, not everyone in general.

    I don't even know what your beliefs are - would you care to state them explicitly, if you're feeling courageous enough?

    My belief is that this game is getting far too political and left sided. I think people who value traditional values, the nuclear family and wholesome fun are being left along the wayside in favor of a fast paced, loose type of life style. I understand that some people want to live their sims lives out a certain way, but I am not seeing equal representation for both sides and when people do speak up and ask for options they get called names.

    Are you saying that LGBT people can't be into "wholesome" fun or have "traditional" values?

    I'm LGBT and I love family stuff and "wholesome" fun, too! :disappointed:

    I'm not into crosdresseing or Trans material, either, but I understand that there are other people in the world who would enjoy such content.
    ~*~Occult Family Player player~*~
    (She/her)
  • papersuitcasepapersuitcase Posts: 838 Member
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'.

    if they made the patch optional it would have hurt nobody.

    And in what way specifically did it hurt you? Do you have loads of male townies walking around in dresses and heels? Your only actual complaint was that you didn't want two Sims of the same sex having babies but that won't happen anyway unless you allow it to happen.

    Some people do, yes. Also some male or female styles have been auto-flagged as gender neutral even though they aren't. It wont be long before a patch breaks the barrier completely and anyone who complains about trans sims being auto generated in their game will be called a bigot.

    I wont force my believes on you, so don't force them on others. We want options in our games. OPTIONS.

    Yeah I'm aware of certain styles being tagged under male/female - but this hardly translates to hordes of cross-dressing Sims overrunning the game and it seems like, for a majority of players, it hasn't been a recurrent issue, or an issue at all.

    But in any case, I asked mirta specifically, not everyone in general.

    I don't even know what your beliefs are - would you care to state them explicitly, if you're feeling courageous enough?

    My belief is that this game is getting far too political and left sided. I think people who value traditional values, the nuclear family and wholesome fun are being left along the wayside in favor of a fast paced, loose, or trendy type of life style. I understand that some people want to live their sims lives out a certain way, but I am not seeing equal representation for both sides. The saddest part is when people do speak up and ask for options they get called names.

    Okay - fine. You want to play your Sims in a traditional way with the archetypal nuclear family. You can still do that - as can anyone else, myself included. Yes, the update was forced on everyone, but nobody is forcing you to play with transgender/cross-dressing/gay/trendy Sims.

    As of right now, the family game play is very limited, and without toddlers I cannot create my entire family, no.

    I am seeing some cross dressing sims in my town as more items get flagged as gender neutral, and as I said before, it's only a matter of time before a nice fat bug comes in and the game starts generating trans sims too. It simply would have been nice for the devs to make this optional to avoid forcing it on people because it is a political change that not everyone agrees with. That's all. I hope I didn't offend you or anyone else.
  • LatinaBunnyLatinaBunny Posts: 4,652 Member
    edited October 2016
    I always thought Sims series was a progressive game series, and Bioware (part of EA?) games have LGBT content as well.

    It's a matter of time before crossdressing was included, because society is changing.

    Some other games are including LGBT or progressive/inclusive stuff (besides Bioware games). Examples: Fire Emblem Fates had a crossdressing character, and the recent Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons games included unisex clothing/crossdressing as well. Same with Stardew Valley (a successful indie game).

    ETA: I see no problems with society becoming progressive and inclusive and less discriminatory.

    Our entertainment will often reflect our society, so it shouldn't be surprising that games are becoming more inclusive in a society that is becoming more inclusive.
    ~*~Occult Family Player player~*~
    (She/her)
  • papersuitcasepapersuitcase Posts: 838 Member
    edited October 2016
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'.

    if they made the patch optional it would have hurt nobody.

    And in what way specifically did it hurt you? Do you have loads of male townies walking around in dresses and heels? Your only actual complaint was that you didn't want two Sims of the same sex having babies but that won't happen anyway unless you allow it to happen.

    Some people do, yes. Also some male or female styles have been auto-flagged as gender neutral even though they aren't. It wont be long before a patch breaks the barrier completely and anyone who complains about trans sims being auto generated in their game will be called a bigot.

    I wont force my believes on you, so don't force them on others. We want options in our games. OPTIONS.

    Yeah I'm aware of certain styles being tagged under male/female - but this hardly translates to hordes of cross-dressing Sims overrunning the game and it seems like, for a majority of players, it hasn't been a recurrent issue, or an issue at all.

    But in any case, I asked mirta specifically, not everyone in general.

    I don't even know what your beliefs are - would you care to state them explicitly, if you're feeling courageous enough?

    My belief is that this game is getting far too political and left sided. I think people who value traditional values, the nuclear family and wholesome fun are being left along the wayside in favor of a fast paced, loose type of life style. I understand that some people want to live their sims lives out a certain way, but I am not seeing equal representation for both sides and when people do speak up and ask for options they get called names.

    Are you saying that LGBT people can't be into "wholesome" fun or have "traditional" values?

    I'm LGBT and I love family stuff and "wholesome" fun, too! :disappointed:

    I'm not into crosdresseing or Trans material, either, but I understand that there are other people in the world who would enjoy such content.

    I didn't say that no, I'm saying there's a lack of that type of gameplay in the game in favor of being trendy.
  • LatinaBunnyLatinaBunny Posts: 4,652 Member
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'.

    if they made the patch optional it would have hurt nobody.

    And in what way specifically did it hurt you? Do you have loads of male townies walking around in dresses and heels? Your only actual complaint was that you didn't want two Sims of the same sex having babies but that won't happen anyway unless you allow it to happen.

    Some people do, yes. Also some male or female styles have been auto-flagged as gender neutral even though they aren't. It wont be long before a patch breaks the barrier completely and anyone who complains about trans sims being auto generated in their game will be called a bigot.

    I wont force my believes on you, so don't force them on others. We want options in our games. OPTIONS.

    Yeah I'm aware of certain styles being tagged under male/female - but this hardly translates to hordes of cross-dressing Sims overrunning the game and it seems like, for a majority of players, it hasn't been a recurrent issue, or an issue at all.

    But in any case, I asked mirta specifically, not everyone in general.

    I don't even know what your beliefs are - would you care to state them explicitly, if you're feeling courageous enough?

    My belief is that this game is getting far too political and left sided. I think people who value traditional values, the nuclear family and wholesome fun are being left along the wayside in favor of a fast paced, loose, or trendy type of life style. I understand that some people want to live their sims lives out a certain way, but I am not seeing equal representation for both sides. The saddest part is when people do speak up and ask for options they get called names.

    Okay - fine. You want to play your Sims in a traditional way with the archetypal nuclear family. You can still do that - as can anyone else, myself included. Yes, the update was forced on everyone, but nobody is forcing you to play with transgender/cross-dressing/gay/trendy Sims.

    As of right now, the family game play is very limited, and without toddlers I cannot create my entire family, no.

    I am seeing some cross dressing sims in my town as more items get flagged as gender neutral, and as I said before, it's only a matter of time before a nice fat bug comes in and the game starts generating trans sims too. It simply would have been nice for the devs to make this optional to avoid forcing it on people because it is a political change that not everyone agrees with. That's all. I hope I didn't offend you or anyone else.

    I hope they fix the bugs for the simmers encountering them. I agree with you about options being available.

    I am wanting toddlers as well, (and I am an LGBT person), and I would love for more family gameplay activities, interactions, animations, etc.
    ~*~Occult Family Player player~*~
    (She/her)
  • LatinaBunnyLatinaBunny Posts: 4,652 Member
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    aaronjc123 wrote: »
    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs. Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't. Yes, the update was poorly executed and could have waited a little longer - I am only talking about individuals who object to this because they find it offensive, wrong or 'gross' - and those people on here *do* exist - it's why the other thread was purged from the forum in the first place.

    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'.

    if they made the patch optional it would have hurt nobody.

    And in what way specifically did it hurt you? Do you have loads of male townies walking around in dresses and heels? Your only actual complaint was that you didn't want two Sims of the same sex having babies but that won't happen anyway unless you allow it to happen.

    Some people do, yes. Also some male or female styles have been auto-flagged as gender neutral even though they aren't. It wont be long before a patch breaks the barrier completely and anyone who complains about trans sims being auto generated in their game will be called a bigot.

    I wont force my believes on you, so don't force them on others. We want options in our games. OPTIONS.

    Yeah I'm aware of certain styles being tagged under male/female - but this hardly translates to hordes of cross-dressing Sims overrunning the game and it seems like, for a majority of players, it hasn't been a recurrent issue, or an issue at all.

    But in any case, I asked mirta specifically, not everyone in general.

    I don't even know what your beliefs are - would you care to state them explicitly, if you're feeling courageous enough?

    My belief is that this game is getting far too political and left sided. I think people who value traditional values, the nuclear family and wholesome fun are being left along the wayside in favor of a fast paced, loose type of life style. I understand that some people want to live their sims lives out a certain way, but I am not seeing equal representation for both sides and when people do speak up and ask for options they get called names.

    Are you saying that LGBT people can't be into "wholesome" fun or have "traditional" values?

    I'm LGBT and I love family stuff and "wholesome" fun, too! :disappointed:

    I'm not into crosdresseing or Trans material, either, but I understand that there are other people in the world who would enjoy such content.

    I didn't say that no, I'm saying there's a lack of that type of gameplay in the game in favor of being trendy.

    I apologize for misunderstanding, then.

    I was confused, because you complained about sims being too progressive/leftie, when it was always including progressive content in the past games, like LGB relationships and "unions" (like the same-sex marriage) and strange things like pregnant males by aliens, etc.

    LGB progress and inclusion is here to stay for the series. That is not the problem, and should never be the problem.

    I do agree with you regarding the problems of lack of options.
    ~*~Occult Family Player player~*~
    (She/her)
  • LatinaBunnyLatinaBunny Posts: 4,652 Member
    edited October 2016
    To get back on topic: I am merely buying content for fun and my personal enjoyment. When I am not having fun anymore or I feel something may not be worth the money, then I don't buy anymore or buy it on sale. That is all I can do.

    I am just one simmer/gamer. It's my choice to buy or not. I still deserve respect as a human being, regardless of whether other people dislike what I do with my money.

    It's just a game.

    Blame the company or just don't buy their products (and keep providing feedback).

    No need to get personal about the simmers who are still enjoying and buying content.

    ETA:

    Basically:

    If Sims 4 ends up losing money then hopefully the company can see why and try to fix it or make big changes and fixes for the next game in the series, or the series goes downhill and ends.

    OR

    If the sims 4 ends up making a decent amount of money/profit, and the company continues doing what it's doing, and then the series keeps on going which can lead to it going downhill (and being cancelled), or just keep living but not in the direction other simmers want...

    I am for all simmers to keep providing the feedback and constructive criticism, (and boycotting, if that's a method a simmer chooses to do).

    I just don't think it's right for other simmers to go lecturing or berating or insulting other simmers for buying the content.

    Apparently, if it ends up selling well, then that means the Sims 4 is appealing to an audience of some sort.

    That audience just may not include all simmers.

    At that point, one has to make decisions on how they want to spend their time and energy and life on a video game series.

    It's a money-making company. I am only one normal person with no power within the company, and I like what I like. If we're just playing the blame game, then that is sad and shows that the game wins over our real human lives, lol. :lol:
    Post edited by LatinaBunny on
    ~*~Occult Family Player player~*~
    (She/her)
  • DeservedCriticismDeservedCriticism Posts: 2,251 Member
    edited October 2016
    aaronjc123 wrote: »

    Are you going out of your way to become the most obnoxious user on this forum? We were talking about a thread months ago where people were objecting to the patch because it went against their religious beliefs.

    Were you? Please show me where that happened. Please show me where anybody brought that up except you. I don't see a "we," I see a "you." I just thumbed back three pages and I see three seperate individuals telling you it is disingenous to pretend people are being bigoted now. You, in your own words, are "talking about a thread months ago." How on earth is an alleged thread from "months ago" relevant to ANY of the individual claims raised by persons in this thread?

    That's exactly what those three seperate individuals are trying to tell you: You are being disingenuous by lumping ANYONE who has ANY complaint about the transgender patch into the same crowd as those in an alleged thread where people allegedly hated on the update due to religious differences. No one in this discussion has spoken a word of hate or bigotry, the criticisms have been in regard to poor management priorities with the decision to forward that update and poorly done textures resulting in some rather ugly "gender neutral" clothing with a terrible habit of looking like it's glitching out on the gender it wasn't initially intended for. You were the one to provoke the discussion of bigotry.
    Some people are arguing that this is perfectly fine, but it isn't.

    Who? Who is arguing this? Source it. Back up your claim with evidence, because if you cannot, you are just strawmanning everyone with ANY critique of that update. You're focusing the discussion on an aspect that isn't here at all when all people are trying to say is "the transgender patch was really lazily done and showcases poor priorities."
    Let me make this perfectly clear before anyone starts raging at me like a mad person - I agree wholeheartedly that the update was good in theory but poor in practice, the clothing looks wrong on the opposite sex because of the way they are shaped and textured which is why I hardly ever make use of it. I'm not arguing against this - I am arguing against people who think their religious beliefs should take priority over the happiness of others just because it goes against their 'culture'. Like I said, the old thread was purged because it bordered on the downright offensive.

    That's great!.....and this isn't that old thread!

    So needlessly accusing people of bigotry where absolutely ZERO bigotry has been showcased, all because once upon a time in a thread long long ago with different individuals, you witnessed bigotry...? That's disingenuous. That's clumping everyone on the "I dislike this update" side into one group where they all agree with each other on all fronts. That's not how the world works, and yes, it's understandable people are voicing annoyance with being clumped into a "bigot" group when they've done nothing to warrant it.

    "Who are you, that do not know your history?"
  • Renamed2002180839Renamed2002180839 Posts: 3,444 Member
    MissCherie wrote: »

    The lot traits are maybe a new system, true, but honestly we already have 500 ways to change our sims' moods, did we really need an other way to do it? And the lot traits that look interesting sounds like they won't do much, like the earthquake one, will it break stuff in your apart or maybe even hurt/kill sims or again it will just give a bad mood to your sims if they experience it? (pretty sure it's just about the mood once again and that it won't affect the game other than that)

    They confirmed that the earthquakes don't break anything in the latest stream. The screen shakes and the sims get "upset"- yeah another way to change their moods, which more and more is all this game does seem to offer which speaks to it's expiration day. Another example is the "Romance Festival". It uses a slightly redesigned fountain from the Luxury Party pack to dispense tea that makes you flirty- yeah- we already have tea that makes you flirty. As well, the new bubble blower looks to be the same as say the tea pot or maybe more closely the ice cream maker- since sims change color to some extent when using it but it just seems to once again change moods. They wanted to focus on the sims but after a while changing the exact same moods in just slightly different way and interacting with the limited three trait system gets dull for a lot of people.
    Evalen wrote: »
    City Living, besides festival, can you go to restaurants, in the city, or Parks, bars, nightclubs and are there entertainment in clubs, is there any night life and other places that are new or just the festival. If there is culture can you go to say a Italian restaurant, or other culture restaurant, can you build in City Living, like are there any empty lots to build, can you build a house in the city.

    @Evalen There's also a Karaoke Bar. There's a somewhat new art museum execution- maybe a bit like an "art center" but I'd already made something like that with existing items in my game so, not really new on that. There are- I think- six user buildable lots on the ground and three "penthouse" lots a top skyscraper shells for a total of 9 user buildable lots and yes that's not much. As well, I'm not entirely sure of the six ground level lots- it may be four. It's hard to tell/count and someone else may know for sure but I know at one point I thought there were only seven and I still kinda think that.
    Neia wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    I was just thinking that too, culling is something that I can agree on with many people of not liking. I guess in the Sims community it is possible to find common ground with other Simmers and not liking culling and relationship culling is one of those areas.

    culling is not a feature though, it's just something that happens under the hood that developers use to make the game run better.

    I think it's a feature, combined with the way NPCs and townies are generated, it's keeping the town lively while still allowing to see mostly my own Sims (I play rotational with a lot of Sims) when I'm travelling. In TS2, I had a lot of townies/NPCs. In TS4, there's as just many NPCs as I truly need. When I go to the restaurant, all the customers are my own Sims, the game only generates the staff. When I go to the library next, it's still my own Sims I see, and the game generates the librarian. I see my own Sims everywhere and I love it ! It really gives me more control on my population. It's the game going "just fill your town with all the Sims you want, I'll handle any oversight and complete it for you."

    No offense Neia- but culling plums. Like really, Really, REALLY plums! Really... no really, as in really- really.

    They also said that the lot traits will be moddable -- so maybe there'll be a modder that can adjust the quakes to actually break things like plumbing or electronics.

    @stilljustme2 THAT I WOULD LOVE! LOL! I get tired of dealing with mods because patches break them so often but I'd install that one- ha! Actually it's a little dark but killing a sim might prove interesting to. I'd have to back up often!
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