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Just put in toddlers already.

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  • AlisonCuteSimsAlisonCuteSims Posts: 165 Member
    @fullspiral Are you seriously implying that watching TV is more relevant/important to the sim life than an entire life stage? I'm sorry but if you are, then I have to disagree with you on that one.

    Yes TV's are sometimes used daily, but is that REALLY what we need? It's just funny to me because we already have TV's in the game, but we can't say the same thing about toddlers.

    I don't care about toddlers, but adding some stupid TV's is the last thing this community needs at this point of the game.

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  • AstroAstro Posts: 6,651 Member
    @fullspiral Are you seriously implying that watching TV is more relevant/important to the sim life than an entire life stage? I'm sorry but if you are, then I have to disagree with you on that one.

    Yes TV's are sometimes used daily, but is that REALLY what we need? It's just funny to me because we already have TV's in the game, but we can't say the same thing about toddlers.

    I don't care about toddlers, but adding some stupid TV's is the last thing this community needs at this point of the game.

    They just released an ep last month, it's perfectly natural that they're releasing a sp now, I'm not the least bit surprised that we didn't get toddlers and got a new sp instead as they wouldn't release 2 expansion packs in a row.
  • fullspiralfullspiral Posts: 14,717 Member
    @fullspiral Are you seriously implying that watching TV is more relevant/important to the sim life than an entire life stage? I'm sorry but if you are, then I have to disagree with you on that one.

    Yes TV's are sometimes used daily, but is that REALLY what we need? It's just funny to me because we already have TV's in the game, but we can't say the same thing about toddlers.

    I don't care about toddlers, but adding some stupid TV's is the last thing this community needs at this point of the game.

    I wasn't implying any such thing. What I said was that I think this Sp and it's idea is a step toward normal family play in sims 4.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    'Just put toddlers in already' is moved to the ideas section? What are all the other toddler topics doing in Feedback then?

    "Hey, here's an idea. Toddlers!"
    "Wait, what? Why didn't we think of that one!? And why did nobody ask?"
    Oh, wait, they did. Which is the very reason this topic exists.

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  • Stdlr9Stdlr9 Posts: 2,744 Member
    edited January 2016
    Let's try to use pure logic. No emotions.

    1. If toddlers were coming, that would be a HUGE draw and EA would let people know since that would keep Simmers buying and buying.
    2. If toddlers are not coming, EA risks alienating a sizable portion of gamers and their wallets, so it would be better, business-wise, to say nothing.

    It's over a year after the base game release. They have said nothing. You figure it out. Grasping at straws via vague Tweets that have nothing to do with the actual situation is just sad.
    Post edited by Stdlr9 on
  • TriplisTriplis Posts: 3,048 Member
    It just shows you that it's a popular request. It's no different from anyone asking for any other feature.
    @Triplis At the risk of being that douchecanoe who quotes themselves, I've commented on this issue so many times that I should have a form letter by now... anyway here's a snip of a post of mine where I attempt to explain why the toddler issue continues to flourish and will until the issue is addressed one way or the other:
    It seems as though you both missed the point of what I was saying. I was responding to someone who was saying that if a person finds the toddler discussion annoying, it would make sense for them to just not click on threads about toddlers. So I explained how, from where I'm standing, it is all over the place, regardless of what's in the thread title.
    Mods moved from MTS, now hosted at: https://triplis.github.io
  • kinot9229kinot9229 Posts: 528 Member
    I've been waiting for toddlers since TS4 was released.
    I'm weary of waiting literally.
  • LustianiciaLustianicia Posts: 2,489 Member
    jackjack_k wrote: »
    jackjack_k wrote: »
    Astro wrote: »
    Toddlers aren't made in a day, they'll be put in (imo) eventually.

    If they put toddlers in the game from the beginning, this wouldn't be a problem. Don't even try to make excuses for their laziness. The developers originally even said that toddlers were gonna be included in the base game, but took them out pretty much at last minute because it was "too hard".

    Suggesting that "toddlers aren't made in a day" as a reason for them not being in the game is just a lazy excuse for them. The Sims 2 and Sims 3 had them in the base game from day one. There are no valid excuses for them not being in The Sims 4 other than the fact that the developers are just lazy and don't care.

    Wrong. Oh so ignorant and wrong.

    The original game that EA wanted them to develop was an online game with Young Adults, that meant you could hang out with people online and chat to them, via the Sims.

    When SimCity got a bad rep for being online, EA changed the development into The Sims 4, and gave devs a YEAR and two months to change it into a full Sims game. The devs wanted to add Toddlers, but didn't have time to add them before the deadline.

    The CEO of EA also said he would not green light any games unless they were online, and Maxis had no choice but to make an online social if they wanted the green light to start development.

    It's not laziness at all by the devs. It's EA giving them a year to turn a game into something it was never supposed to be in less than half the time that the Devs had to work on Sims 2 and Sims 3.

    And they do care. If you didn't know, EA decide the "concept" of what content they should add to the game, because Devs only develop what EA green lights. Which is why EA sends out the Survey's to fans of what they want to see in the game, not the Developers.

    ----

    These are the same (for the most part) devs who always took feedback and tried their best to please fans during the Sims 2 and Sims 3 (even if the Sims 3 was a technical mess). To even think they suddenly stopped caring is ignorance at best. Look at the full picture. We even know half of this information straight from people who worked on the game and are no longer working on it.

    Trust me, I know about the whole thing with EA deciding to make a spin off title into a main Sims game. They knew it would make a lot more money if they slapped "The Sims 4" on there instead. That's probably what they did with SimCity too. This is how EA works. I know this already.

    I disagree with your idea that the developers even wanted toddlers in the first place. If that was true, then how come we still haven't gotten them? You would think they'd be on their priority list if they truly "wanted to add toddlers" before the 'deadline'. I just think they wanted to completely skip that life stage all along. Rachel Franklin herself even admitted that removing them was "the best idea for the game yet". That certainly doesn't make it sound like they actually WANTED toddlers. I think that's enough proof that they probably purposely skipped toddlers.

    Also, Sims 3 wasn't a "technical mess" at all. It depends on your PC. But, that's not the point here, so I won't spend time to argue about that.

    You do understand gaming development right? Developers only develop what EA gives them the budget for. If EA decides one feature is worth more investing in than another, then guess what? Developers won't get to develop them. Even if they REALLY want to.
    EA has decided (and confirmed via Survey) that Toddlers would only be developed alongside a Generations EP (and probably patched in). EA pays their wages, and decides what concepts they go with. Devs work around these concepts and come up with ideas for them.

    And once again, someone misquotes Rachel;
    So absolutely, I feel like it’s the best decision for the game to date. I’m not talking about future stuff.

    So she already says it was the best decision at the time, and she's not talking about future stuff. She also said;
    Toddlers are not simply small Sims, they are a completely separate Sim type, deserving of the same level of investment. We want to do it well

    Her argument is, it was the best decision not to include them, because they want to do them well, and rushing them for release date would have meant they could have ended up worse than babies.
    Not that they are happy the lifestage isn't in the game. It's all about quoting everything or not at all.

    ---

    And the Sims 3 IS a technical mess. It only works on a select few video cards, and nearly all new Mac's can't run the game, and nearly all new video cards are unrecognized by newer PC's and run terribly (even LifeSimmer who has a really good PC, just had to edit half her files just to get the game to RUN and even then it's on a lower setting). Because the game doesn't recognize hardware on nearly every card older than 2012.

    And trust me, EA would not release an emergency patch due to the recent backlash of the game not working on new PC's and Mac's, and advise to only select "a few packs at a time" if it ran like a IT dream. It just doesn't and only a few video cards still run the game properly.

    I'm not going to argue the point, because EA have admitted it themselves and are trying to do damage control so they can still sell it.

    Rachel Franklin's comments still heavily implied that she was very happy with excluding toddlers. Again, she's ruining the franchise. She also said that the closets are her favorite feature in 'Get Together'... I think that pretty much summarizes it. The closets were even being promoted as a key feature for the expansion pack. That's honestly just sad.

    Sims 3 isn't a mess at all. That's only your opinion. It's hilarious how I constantly get attacked for saying how terrible Sims 4 is, but you can sit there and tell me how much of a "mess" Sims 3 is. It's actually ironic. When I insult The Sims 4, it needs to be an opinion. But, if you all wanna attack Sims 3, it's suddenly "factual". Sims 3 is an amazing game. Get over it. It's a lot better than Sims 4 and probably always will be. Even after over a year of being released, Sims 4 is still horrible.
    Favorite Packs
    Sims 1: Hot Date
    Sims 2: Seasons
    Sims 2: Happy Holiday Stuff
    Sims 3: Seasons
    Sims 3: 70's, 80's, & 90's Stuff
    Sims 4: Seasons
    Sims 4: Paranormal Stuff
    Sims 4: Strangerville Game Pack

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  • KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,715 Member
    @fullspiral Are you seriously implying that watching TV is more relevant/important to the sim life than an entire life stage? I'm sorry but if you are, then I have to disagree with you on that one.

    Yes TV's are sometimes used daily, but is that REALLY what we need? It's just funny to me because we already have TV's in the game, but we can't say the same thing about toddlers.

    I don't care about toddlers, but adding some stupid TV's is the last thing this community needs at this point of the game.

    TV is also slowly becoming outdated, thanks to services like Netflix and Hulu. There are even show series that are exclusively on the web and not TV. Heck, even 90% of the movies I watch, I watch on my computer and sometimes online if I feel too darn lazy to get up and fish out the DVD from my crate.
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  • KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,715 Member
    edited January 2016
    jackjack_k wrote: »
    jackjack_k wrote: »
    Astro wrote: »
    Toddlers aren't made in a day, they'll be put in (imo) eventually.

    If they put toddlers in the game from the beginning, this wouldn't be a problem. Don't even try to make excuses for their laziness. The developers originally even said that toddlers were gonna be included in the base game, but took them out pretty much at last minute because it was "too hard".

    Suggesting that "toddlers aren't made in a day" as a reason for them not being in the game is just a lazy excuse for them. The Sims 2 and Sims 3 had them in the base game from day one. There are no valid excuses for them not being in The Sims 4 other than the fact that the developers are just lazy and don't care.

    Wrong. Oh so ignorant and wrong.

    The original game that EA wanted them to develop was an online game with Young Adults, that meant you could hang out with people online and chat to them, via the Sims.

    When SimCity got a bad rep for being online, EA changed the development into The Sims 4, and gave devs a YEAR and two months to change it into a full Sims game. The devs wanted to add Toddlers, but didn't have time to add them before the deadline.

    The CEO of EA also said he would not green light any games unless they were online, and Maxis had no choice but to make an online social if they wanted the green light to start development.

    It's not laziness at all by the devs. It's EA giving them a year to turn a game into something it was never supposed to be in less than half the time that the Devs had to work on Sims 2 and Sims 3.

    And they do care. If you didn't know, EA decide the "concept" of what content they should add to the game, because Devs only develop what EA green lights. Which is why EA sends out the Survey's to fans of what they want to see in the game, not the Developers.

    ----

    These are the same (for the most part) devs who always took feedback and tried their best to please fans during the Sims 2 and Sims 3 (even if the Sims 3 was a technical mess). To even think they suddenly stopped caring is ignorance at best. Look at the full picture. We even know half of this information straight from people who worked on the game and are no longer working on it.

    Trust me, I know about the whole thing with EA deciding to make a spin off title into a main Sims game. They knew it would make a lot more money if they slapped "The Sims 4" on there instead. That's probably what they did with SimCity too. This is how EA works. I know this already.

    I disagree with your idea that the developers even wanted toddlers in the first place. If that was true, then how come we still haven't gotten them? You would think they'd be on their priority list if they truly "wanted to add toddlers" before the 'deadline'. I just think they wanted to completely skip that life stage all along. Rachel Franklin herself even admitted that removing them was "the best idea for the game yet". That certainly doesn't make it sound like they actually WANTED toddlers. I think that's enough proof that they probably purposely skipped toddlers.

    Also, Sims 3 wasn't a "technical mess" at all. It depends on your PC. But, that's not the point here, so I won't spend time to argue about that.

    You do understand gaming development right? Developers only develop what EA gives them the budget for. If EA decides one feature is worth more investing in than another, then guess what? Developers won't get to develop them. Even if they REALLY want to.
    EA has decided (and confirmed via Survey) that Toddlers would only be developed alongside a Generations EP (and probably patched in). EA pays their wages, and decides what concepts they go with. Devs work around these concepts and come up with ideas for them.

    And once again, someone misquotes Rachel;
    So absolutely, I feel like it’s the best decision for the game to date. I’m not talking about future stuff.

    So she already says it was the best decision at the time, and she's not talking about future stuff. She also said;
    Toddlers are not simply small Sims, they are a completely separate Sim type, deserving of the same level of investment. We want to do it well

    Her argument is, it was the best decision not to include them, because they want to do them well, and rushing them for release date would have meant they could have ended up worse than babies.
    Not that they are happy the lifestage isn't in the game. It's all about quoting everything or not at all.

    ---

    And the Sims 3 IS a technical mess. It only works on a select few video cards, and nearly all new Mac's can't run the game, and nearly all new video cards are unrecognized by newer PC's and run terribly (even LifeSimmer who has a really good PC, just had to edit half her files just to get the game to RUN and even then it's on a lower setting). Because the game doesn't recognize hardware on nearly every card older than 2012.

    And trust me, EA would not release an emergency patch due to the recent backlash of the game not working on new PC's and Mac's, and advise to only select "a few packs at a time" if it ran like a IT dream. It just doesn't and only a few video cards still run the game properly.

    I'm not going to argue the point, because EA have admitted it themselves and are trying to do damage control so they can still sell it.

    Rachel Franklin's comments still heavily implied that she was very happy with excluding toddlers. Again, she's ruining the franchise. She also said that the closets are her favorite feature in 'Get Together'... I think that pretty much summarizes it. The closets were even being promoted as a key feature for the expansion pack. That's honestly just sad.

    Sims 3 isn't a mess at all. That's only your opinion. It's hilarious how I constantly get attacked for saying how terrible Sims 4 is, but you can sit there and tell me how much of a "mess" Sims 3 is. It's actually ironic. When I insult The Sims 4, it needs to be an opinion. But, if you all wanna attack Sims 3, it's suddenly "factual". Sims 3 is an amazing game. Get over it. It's a lot better than Sims 4 and probably always will be. Even after over a year of being released, Sims 4 is still horrible.
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  • fullspiralfullspiral Posts: 14,717 Member
    It's called personal preference and opinion.

  • KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,715 Member
    fullspiral wrote: »
    It's called personal preference and opinion.
    This...

    It's hilarious how I constantly get attacked for saying how terrible Sims 4 is, but you can sit there and tell me how much of a "mess" Sims 3 is. It's actually ironic. When I insult The Sims 4, it needs to be an opinion. But, if you all wanna attack Sims 3, it's suddenly "factual".

    ...is not personal preference and opinion.
    752d5ef1ccf6be4ae3b2e539a6376fe9ea400d9ar1-320-207_00.gif
  • fullspiralfullspiral Posts: 14,717 Member
    fullspiral wrote: »
    It's called personal preference and opinion.
    This...

    It's hilarious how I constantly get attacked for saying how terrible Sims 4 is, but you can sit there and tell me how much of a "mess" Sims 3 is. It's actually ironic. When I insult The Sims 4, it needs to be an opinion. But, if you all wanna attack Sims 3, it's suddenly "factual".

    ...is not personal preference and opinion.

    What I mean is it is that person's, and others, opinion that sims 4 is terrible, just as it might be mine and others that sims 3 is horrible. I don't see the need to argue about opinion and preference.

    It is not a FACT that either game is horrible. It is preference and opinion.
  • AstroAstro Posts: 6,651 Member
    fullspiral wrote: »
    fullspiral wrote: »
    It's called personal preference and opinion.
    This...

    It's hilarious how I constantly get attacked for saying how terrible Sims 4 is, but you can sit there and tell me how much of a "mess" Sims 3 is. It's actually ironic. When I insult The Sims 4, it needs to be an opinion. But, if you all wanna attack Sims 3, it's suddenly "factual".

    ...is not personal preference and opinion.

    What I mean is it is that person's, and others, opinion that sims 4 is terrible, just as it might be mine and others that sims 3 is horrible. I don't see the need to argue about opinion and preference.

    It is not a FACT that either game is horrible. It is preference and opinion.

    ^^this
  • fullspiralfullspiral Posts: 14,717 Member
    edited January 2016
    And besides, this is the sims 4 forum. This is mostly where you will find those having fun with the game posting about it. I doubt you will find them in the sims 3 forum saying how bad that game is. Or interrupting threads bashing it.

    And this is way off topic so I will wrap it up with that.

    And back on topic, it would be nice to see toddlers come back to the game.
  • SimGamer15SimGamer15 Posts: 2,019 Member
    Yes it would be nice to have toddlers in game, but these features that everyone is asking for takes time to implant. I mean they have to code the toddlers emotions, Then they got to have a 3d modeler to make models of the toddler then the they got to make clothes for the toddler. Then they got to make objects for the toddler to interact with then the coder has to code these objects.
  • KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,715 Member
    fullspiral wrote: »
    And besides, this is the sims 4 forum. This is mostly where you will find those having fun with the game posting about it. I doubt you will find them in the sims 3 forum saying how bad that game is. Or interrupting threads bashing it.

    And this is way off topic so I will wrap it up with that.

    And back on topic, it would be nice to see toddlers come back to the game.

    Actually, there have been some people posting Sims 4 stories in the Sims 3 section lately. Not many, but a few. Go figure.
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  • fullspiralfullspiral Posts: 14,717 Member
    fullspiral wrote: »
    And besides, this is the sims 4 forum. This is mostly where you will find those having fun with the game posting about it. I doubt you will find them in the sims 3 forum saying how bad that game is. Or interrupting threads bashing it.

    And this is way off topic so I will wrap it up with that.

    And back on topic, it would be nice to see toddlers come back to the game.

    Actually, there have been some people posting Sims 4 stories in the Sims 3 section lately. Not many, but a few. Go figure.

    I wouldn't know. :)
  • GoddessKarmaGoddessKarma Posts: 52 Member
    I admit I haven't played in months and neither has any of the Simmers I know personally friends and family no longer play either because it just seems like they are no longer interested in pleasing the fans, it may not be enough to matter them but there's definitely a decline in interest happening... toddlers are just one of many things that seem to be just outright ignored... I'm not interested in spending my money for a company that ignores it's consumer...
  • LustianiciaLustianicia Posts: 2,489 Member
    Yes it would be nice to have toddlers in game, but these features that everyone is asking for takes time to implant. I mean they have to code the toddlers emotions, Then they got to have a 3d modeler to make models of the toddler then the they got to make clothes for the toddler. Then they got to make objects for the toddler to interact with then the coder has to code these objects.

    This wouldn't be an issue if the game already had toddlers in there to begin with. The developers have nobody to blame but themselves. Your entire comment is basically summarized as "it's too hard". Well, tough! This is what they decided to make a career out of. If they can't handle it, then they should quit.
    Favorite Packs
    Sims 1: Hot Date
    Sims 2: Seasons
    Sims 2: Happy Holiday Stuff
    Sims 3: Seasons
    Sims 3: 70's, 80's, & 90's Stuff
    Sims 4: Seasons
    Sims 4: Paranormal Stuff
    Sims 4: Strangerville Game Pack

    78MB6Gb.jpg
  • LustianiciaLustianicia Posts: 2,489 Member
    edited January 2016
    I admit I haven't played in months and neither has any of the Simmers I know personally friends and family no longer play either because it just seems like they are no longer interested in pleasing the fans, it may not be enough to matter them but there's definitely a decline in interest happening... toddlers are just one of many things that seem to be just outright ignored... I'm not interested in spending my money for a company that ignores it's consumer...

    All I know is that I have yet to experience anywhere near the same kind of excitement for packs for Sims 4 that I did whenever a new one was announced for Sims 2 or Sims 3. Those games actually had quality content/features that allowed me to anticipate for. Sims 4 doesn't have that same kind of excitement. Now they're seriously just trying to grab cash out of people's wallets with whatever they come up with. The quality doesn't seem to matter anymore. They'll just make whatever comes to mind because they know it'll attract money. I'm willing to bet that we'll soon see a stuff pack dedicated only to couches or another dedicated only to toilets! The "premium content" (which I think is a complete joke to have in their so called "stuff packs") in the couch one would be a massage chair while the one for the toilets stuff pack would be that fancy one from The Sims 3 store! LOL

    Even though they market their stuff packs as "stuff", what we're really paying $10 for is the "premium" content that comes in them. There's no way around that. Most people who purchased 'Perfect Patio' only did it for the hot tubs. Just like how most people who bought 'Cool Kitchen' did it for the ice cream machine. So, we're literally being charged $10 per item (essentially). It's nothing but a cash grab now!
    Favorite Packs
    Sims 1: Hot Date
    Sims 2: Seasons
    Sims 2: Happy Holiday Stuff
    Sims 3: Seasons
    Sims 3: 70's, 80's, & 90's Stuff
    Sims 4: Seasons
    Sims 4: Paranormal Stuff
    Sims 4: Strangerville Game Pack

    78MB6Gb.jpg
  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 35,709 Member
    Stdlr9 wrote: »
    Let's try to use pure logic. No emotions.

    1. If toddlers were coming, that would be a HUGE draw and EA would let people know since that would keep Simmers buying and buying.
    2. If toddlers are not coming, EA risks alienating a sizable portion of gamers and their wallets, so it would be better, business-wise, to say nothing.

    It's over a year after the base game release. They have said nothing. You figure it out. Grasping at straws via vague Tweets that have nothing to do with the actual situation are just sad.

    This is what I've thought since the beginning. EA knows hows desperately some people want to see toddlers and although they make a point of saying they cannot talk about future content I think this is such a huge issue that they would talk if toddlers were going to return. If only to say they're being worked on. That they're not saying anything leads me to believe toddlers will not return in the Sims 4. As much as I'd love to see them return I'm not holding my breath.
  • AlisonCuteSimsAlisonCuteSims Posts: 165 Member
    I don't care about toddlers at all, I just find it bizarre that they would rather add a few more TV's than an entire life state.
    This just goes to show how little EA cares about their community. I already stopped playing TS4, as I have gotten bored of it a week after GT & I've got to say, that I am over the fact that they don't listen to their consumers. :|

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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    I think it's perfectly fine to express opinions about the games, that's what we're here for isn't it? I just wonder why it's necessary to always use superlatives (horrible, terrible, a mess, a nightmare; or, the best ever, perfect, it blows the others out of the water; as if there's no in between) and to phrase that opinion as if it's a fact. And to state it even when the opinion isn't the topic. Some opinions seem to be so dominant, that they have to be let out on a regular basis, as if the owner of the opinion will explode when that doesn't happen. Like a dog that has to be walked a few times a day to do its business.
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  • Prink34320Prink34320 Posts: 5,078 Member
    edited January 2016
    What's the difference between what I quoted from the interview and what you quoted? It's basically the same thing. She still believes taking out toddlers was the "best decision to date". That literally implies that she's happy about the removal of toddlers. That's certainly NOT the kind of person I want being the executive producer for this game. If she actually likes the fact that toddlers aren't in The Sims 4, then that's just scary for the future fate of the toddler life stage in general. Based on that alone, it's going to be extremely safe to assume that toddlers may not even come back.

    She's ruining this once great franchise. End of story.

    Well the difference is you left out "I feel" which shows it's a personal opinion, she's not saying that it was factually the best decision to date. That's dependent on perspective, just because a Maxis employee says they think it was a good decision to leave something out at the time doesn't mean they're happy about the removal, they can be just as disappointed as the fanbase is. Well you can have your own personal opinion, so far I've been enjoying The Sims 4 more than ever, the Packs are improving in my opinion and the game has been running better for me, so I disagree. That's a strong assumption, since there's no proof either way, you can't speak for her either, only she can say whether she likes Toddlers or not, even so, she can have her opinion, just us each of us can, no opinion is superior or inferior to another.

    Once great? Maybe for you but for me I still think this franchise is great and so far I've been seeing more improvement, it's not a fact this franchise is being run to the ground, it's simply based on perspective.
    Live your life to the fullest, don't wait for a miracle to happen, be the miracle to make things happen.
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