I guess....in my internet jaunt I've discovered that a lot of people are more....closed off, maybe, let's say....when they read. Like they are only looking at the work through their own brain, and they're unwilling to step out of their brain and into the work.
Reading is so much breathing for me! I wrote an Aimless post about how certain texts have come to me just when I've needed them: The Timing of the Text. And it's really about discovering through reading that I'm not alone in the way I thought I was.
I've always refused to read just from my mind--I've had to read experientially, from all of me. When I was in grad school, I wasn't sure how this approach would work, but I'd already committed myself to this holistic form of reading and analysis and interpretation. And fortunately--it worked! There was room in academia for this type of wild reading that pulls in all of the feelings, all of the body, and all of the mind, and the soul and consciousness, too. There's room for this.
Am I just really weird in being so confused and sad and emo about this?
Maybe it's just a matter of finding the right colleagues! Those who get you and resonate with you and share your passion as a reader and a writer!
Though I'm often wilty flowered, I've got secret self-assured trait, especially when it comes to things that I am passionate about, like engaged, full-on reading. So, I've always just put my enthusiasm out there. It drives away those that are cynical and bitter and can't stand it... and as a result, it ends up drawing to me kindred readers! Even if there are just one or two others that will listen when I'm enthusiastic about whatever I'm reading, that's often all it takes!
"In those moments the person is prised out of his or her narcissistic isolation into a participation, or imaginative identification, with our transcendent unity of being. Each perceives, more existentially than consciously, that the spaces between us are delusory, and that we are knit together in a common human identity."
YES! So your very first question, "How do you guys deal with being alone inside your skulls?"
I deal with it by getting out of it. It's just a trick of being caught up in thought that one finds oneself "alone."
Dive into music, reading, writing, the garden, walks in nature--run, breathe, dance, climb a tree--look at mountains flowers butterflies another's eyes--engage mindfully in anything... and the thoughts stop and one is connected through space with everyone and everything. Then, that "alone inside the skull" ends and one is connected through space with all.
That's what art can do, too--reading also. I really love this quotation that you shared.
part of the waterfall but running up against all these individual drops and not knowing what to do about it...
I love this idea, too... this is sort of what I was trying to get at with Lost Dark Matter, with the part about how tiny objects keep their identity or integrity when being merged... I'm going through a long Neptunian journey at present--just at the beginning of it--in which my feeling of identity is often lost within the oceanic experience. So a quotation like this, about tiny objects keeping integrity during merging, is a life-saver to me.
It's part of the both/and experience.
I thought that most humans were capable of basic empathy, because that was what I had experienced of the world thus far.
I still do feel this is true. I also feel that often people get caught up within their thoughts--feeling separate from others. And (thanks to Shakespeare tragedies), I also feel that people often get caught up in their own brain/hormonal chemistry--their coding--and they respond from that, without having the space to not be impelled by these directives from sociobiological coding. And, I feel that all people have the capacity to learn to separate from that impulsive acting--to learn to pause, to be the ones to determine their actions and responses themselves, rather than simply responding to their coding.
Art teaches empathy. That's one of the ways that it heals.
I guess my point is that I am still trying to understand how some humans can be so closed up within themselves that they aren't open to the gift I am trying to give them, and also I am still coming to understand how sometimes you can see and appreciate the gift, but still you know that it's not meant for you. But that doesn't devalue the gift. Whoever it is meant for will still find meaning in it.
Yeah, this is super! I think that this is what I was trying to get at when I was writing about your first chapter--how it serves as the doorway to Surreal Darkness. Readers will walk through that doorway if it is meant for them--if they're ready for it and they will find meaning for it.
My Aimless post that I mentioned earlier--I wrote it because I was so blown away about finally having been able to walk through the doorway of T.S. Eliot's poem "Burnt Norton," which had been closed to me all my life. I'd grown up with "Four Quartets" on the bookshelf in the den, and my eyes must have rested on the spine thousands of times--daily for maybe eight years--for I loved that title, but I couldn't find my way into the poem. Then, after my grandpa passed, I got a bag of books from him, and that was in it. I still found no way in. Then this year, a good friend turned me onto it when Lana included it in her latest album, and from there I found the whole poem and the door was wide open and I was in the garden with Eliot. But it took me a lifetime to get there! I had to discover what he's writing about on my own, first, and then it opened.
So... maybe readers come across your work, but at this moment, they're not ready. A seed is still planted. When they are ready, something will happen--the timing of the text will be such that they're led back to it, if it is for them.
All the writer can do is write what wants to be written through her, through him... that's it.
Then, like a butterfly, you let the gift go. Readers will find it if it's right for them and when it's right for them.
My same great friend shared this quotation on his Twitter account today: "...and I become only an instrument of a greater, wiser force...or being...or intelligence than I myself am." It's from the illustrator Eyvind Earle.
And the kind of writing you're talking about is like that.
How do you guys look at your readers?
When I write, I do best if I forget about readers. If I remember them, I begin to censor myself. "Oh, I'll sound presumptuous if I write this..." or "So-and-so was really sarcastic when I started writing this type of thing before..." or even, "I think so-and-so will really like this."
It gets in the way, and I become self-conscious, and I can't either let loose and just have fun (if I'm writing something light) or get out of the way and just let what wants to be written be written through me.
So I do best if I forget all about readers when I write and just open myself to the words and feelings. Or if I just let go and have fun!
What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have?
So... while I do forget about readers while I write, once I hit "Publish" I let myself thing about them again. And then, I want a relationship of friends.
I have such high standards for friendship! For friends have capacity to disagree while still feeling commonality and affection and respect. And that's what I want from readers.
I don't care if we agree--but if they read, I want them to love. And I will love back. And I want openness and respect, two-way.
Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs?
In my job as web-editor, readers are customers--they're not always right, but I am there to supply their needs. That's like a contract.
In my own writing, I never think of readers as customers, and I never think of their needs. I think about the needs of what wants to be expressed through me. The readers will find it, if it offers anything to them.
Do you think of them as co-creators?
Totally. In fact, my favorite readers are those who bring something to what they read--it becomes more as they read it. It becomes alive and transcendent.
This is the kind of reader I am, and this is the kind of reader I want.
Do you think of them as an admiring audience?
Oh, I hope to never be admired! I hate admiration!
How dreary – to be – Somebody!
How public – like a Frog –
To tell one’s name – the livelong June –
To an admiring Bog!
— Emily 🐸🐸🐸🐸
I really do feel terribly wilty-flower and separate by admiration.
That said, I am a very admiring reader! I love to praise and to admire writers and well-written works--but it's not an admiring bog type of admiration! It's more like a celebration! And then, I want us to be peers and friends!
Do you think of them at all?
Only after it's written, when I check stats or read comments.
I like it when a good friend reads it and says, "Oh! My heart was thinking that the other day!" or when a friend reads and says, "Not my experience, but how amazing that you feel like that!"
And mostly, I like it when someone reads and says, "Ah, life!" For life really is big enough to encompass it all!
@MedleyMisty Your post was so wonderful. As was yours, @CathyTea! Man, I'm so happy this thread exists!
Okay, here goes:
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
In life, I feel like I do very few things just to please someone else. Of course I like making other people happy, and I love expressing my empathy and caring to them in different ways, such as through basic kindness and small favours. However, when I create, be it writing, drawing, or turning trash into environmental art, I do it because I want to. Because there is an image in my head that wants to get out. Or because there is something I want to put into words or just explore some themes or thoughts through text. Or because I've looked at a pile of lovely cardboard tea boxes and figured they would make a good tapestry. Yes, sometimes I like doing commissions, like portraits, and that's when I do think of my customers, of course. However, I've never been commissioned a story, and I can't even see that ever working very well, so I have never thought of my readers as customers.
When I create, I pour a lot of myself into my work, no matter what the medium. I want to express things that are important to me and talk about themes and ideas I feel this world needs in order to become better. Usually I feel like I cut myself into little pieces and scatter them into the story and the different characters. Sometimes it's more obvious than others, but every time I write, I am there. And whenever I read fiction, I am there as well. Sometimes getting into the story and seeing the images in my head and feeling all the emotions the story conveys is easier than others, but for me it's never exactly difficult. I start reading and I am somewhere else. And I know this experience is not the same for everyone, and I'm not expecting it to be, but I think there are plenty of people who do feel similar things. At least on this forum I see a lot of them.
To me, readers are people. Or whatever other animal they might be. I mean, who knows when dogs or cats start to read? They have their own lives I might never know much about, but I know that something has led them to stumble upon my story. I suppose that to me, everyone who even gives a passing glimpse to what I write is someone I have reached in some way. So I guess I see my readers as an audience that's out there somewhere, and whom I'd like to move/make happy/get to thinking with my writing, but whom I don't really need to compromise myself for when I'm in my writing process. Of course I want to write something that is good and could be enjoyed by at least someone, but I don't care if there are only a few of those who look at my stories and think, "Hey, that might be something good!". It would be nice to get more than a handful of readers, of course (though maybe not tons of more, it could be stressful), but I'm not going to try to get them by changing what I want to write. I have operated on the ideal of being myself almost all my life. When I was younger and wanted to be accepted by being something that I wasn't, even in little ways, all it did was hurt me deeply. I quickly learned my lesson and stopped it. Yeah, sure, it cost me my friends and I ended up being pretty alone and bullied for years, but hey, then I made friends who really like me for what I am so it all worked out. Also, as an introvert, I didn't mind being alone all that much.
That doesn't mean I've totally closed off my mind to reader feedback. Far from it. I LOVE getting feedback from my readers, because through that I can become a better writer and to see how my story is being received. Like @CathyTea said, I also start to think of my readers the moment I publish my story. The relationship I'd want with my readers is that of... uh... mutual communication? If that sounds too clinical, then online companionship? Maybe even friendship, but that takes more time. If someone stops to comment on my work, I'll do my best to reply to them because I want to establish a connection to the reader. I also like to connect with other writers by commenting on their work (something I'm only slowly getting better with; I've been a very quiet reader of online things for years because I have this stupid thought in my head that if I comment on something, I have to comment on all of the things I've liked and the thought fills me with dread. Like I said, stupid). But I don't exactly mind if someone reads my story and doesn't want to share their thoughts either. Everyone has the right to have experiences that are theirs and theirs alone and belong to no one else. I do hope that my readers aren't afraid of giving me feedback, though, even if it was negative. Every experience and opinion matters to me, and I love hearing the different points of views people have. Sometimes a reader has seen completely different things about my story than what I intended, and usually it's a wonderful realisation.
Would negative comments make me feel negative feelings? Yes. But I know that those feelings are just as important as the positive ones.
So I especially like it when readers want to talk to me and tell me what they think of my story. And even though I said I'm not going to let others dictate what I write, I am going to analyse every suggestion for improvement I get. If someone told me they were hurt by my writing because I hadn't dealt with some sensitive subject matter well enough (thankfully this hasn't happened yet), it would probably make me question my tactfulness and make me seriously rewrite things. If someone pointed out a plot hole or a continuity error that I hadn't considered, I'd of course be thankful and probably fix it (which has happened in another storytelling community). But if someone were to give me suggestions for where they think my story should go, I would thank them and maybe consider it, but actually implementing that idea would make me feel uncomfortable. I mean, if the idea is good, I'd much rather like it if the reader used the great idea they have for a story of their own and not let me take it, even though I would give them credit for the idea. And there's also the fact that I really want the things I create to feel like something I myself have done. In an art school I went to when I was little, I had some teachers who liked to paint large parts of the students' art pieces for us, whether we wanted it or not. I really hated it, because the end result wasn't me. Sure, it might have looked better than what the eight-year-old that was me might have made, but I didn't care because for me, creating art is about the expression of the artist and the exploration of their minds and skills. If I want to make art in groups (which is a nice way to make art too), I'll get into a group. But if I want to do something on my own, I don't want anyone picking up a pen and start drawing their vision on my work.
Wow, that started sounding hostile. I'm just still really annoyed by those teachers even after all these years. Thankfully most of the teachers there were really great.
So in summary: I want to communicate with my readers and hear about the different experiences they have, but my writing is about expressing what's in my head.
And to your another question, @MedleyMisty Sometimes I like being alone inside my head. It's a place where I can sort out my thoughts in peace. Sometimes (most of the times) it's buzzing with things I have trouble sorting out and that can't get outside because I feel like they wouldn't be understood. Sometimes there is this disconnect I mentioned earlier, like a wall between me and the world. My trick of getting out of it is either expressing myself through visual arts or writing, or finding people who do share similar thoughts and feelings. I've managed to gather a circle of friends and loved ones with whom I can talk about most of the things, so that helps me a lot.
Also, I do believe most humans are capable of basic empathy. Nowadays the problem is more that with the way especially the western society is organised, empathy and caring are not encouraged enough. It's too much about profit and competing with each other and thinking of what everyone deserves instead of thinking how people could share happiness without taking it away from others. Still, there's hope. It starts with individuals wanting to make a difference and spreading kindness into the world. The world is a dark place, but it's not totally lost.
On a lighter note: I have heard of the Andy Griffith Show, but only by name. Never watched it. Still, a cool piece of info to know!
@CitizenErased14 I'll have you know that I've slept very well the last couple of nights and I'm not tired at all! I am hungry though, and I'm not sure if I have enough food to last for the entire weekend. Tomorrow's Finnish independence day so everything will be closed. Darn.
Still, I'm feeling fine, and I hope you got some sleep.
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
Most of my readers also write stories, so we are each others' readers at the same time. It's almost like we are "colleagues" .
I didn't really have expectations when i started, and till this day when i see a comment i get really excited about them. Like "omg, people actually want to talk about the stuff i just scribbled there!!"
I don't take them as co-creators though for the stories i wrote so far. I remember in the beginning of my first detective story most commenters hinted that they want the two main characters to get together. For me it was never the intention. I though if there was a moment between them, maybe, but it just never happened. I won't make it happen just because someone asked for it, if i don't feel that it would actually be a part of my story if i just wrote it for myself, or if i didn't feel while writing that it comes naturally.
If i was writing a different kind of story, maybe it would be an option. Like if i was specifically write a story with open choices and votes. That would be a really interesting experiment i think.
If i was writing a different kind of story, maybe it would be an option. Like if i was specifically write a story with open choices and votes. That would be a really interesting experiment i think.
Huh, that really would be a pretty interesting experiment, actually.
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
I tend to not worry about readership in general.
Basically, if they want to read the story, great! But if they don't, that's okay, too. Mainly, I take the mindset of, "It's there if you want to take a look at it."
I'm very grateful when I get new readers, yes. But I don't hold it against anyone if the story isn't to their liking. Different people have different tastes, after all.
So fun--and inspiring--to hear everyone's responses!
A few points that @RipuAncestor made really resonate with me:
When I create, I pour a lot of myself into my work, no matter what the medium. I want to express things that are important to me and talk about themes and ideas I feel this world needs in order to become better. Usually I feel like I cut myself into little pieces and scatter them into the story and the different characters. Sometimes it's more obvious than others, but every time I write, I am there. And whenever I read fiction, I am there as well. Sometimes getting into the story and seeing the images in my head and feeling all the emotions the story conveys is easier than others, but for me it's never exactly difficult. I start reading and I am somewhere else. And I know this experience is not the same for everyone, and I'm not expecting it to be, but I think there are plenty of people who do feel similar things. At least on this forum I see a lot of them.
This is so much my reading experience--I really enter into the worlds and characters I read about! I love that experience, and I suppose that's a large reason that I read!
Yeah, sure, it cost me my friends and I ended up being pretty alone and bullied for years, but hey, then I made friends who really like me for what I am so it all worked out. Also, as an introvert, I didn't mind being alone all that much.
I'm an introvert, too, and when I'm alone, I'm never lonely! I always feel great! The times I feel lonely are when I'm trying or wanting to connect with others, and the connections just aren't available!
Also what I love about being myself--in the daily world and in writing--is just what you say: then, the people that like me like me for who I am! And then, acceptance is acceptance of all me.
I've stopped trying to hide faults--if I come across as egotistical or snobby or presumptuous, well, maybe these qualities are part of who I am. I'll continue to work with myself and to look at and examine all aspects of myself. I'll keep working at expressing myself authentically and sensitively towards others. When my faults put others off, then it's ok for it helps me to see areas where I have room for growth and development, and also, I end up with friends who can see me for all of me (faults included) and still accept me.
Such a large part of compassion is realizing that we all have faults--for me, not hiding mine or pretending they don't exist is a way of extending compassion to myself, while also opening up space to grow. And it helps me to extend kindness and acceptance to others, too, when I'm not trying to defend pretenses.
Hmmm... where did this train of thought come from? I guess it came from the statement about being true to yourself, rather than pretending in order to be accepted.
@CathyTea Oh, what a beautiful outlook on life he has! A very nice interpretation on things indeed. And those illustrations and paintings are simply stunning.
Also what I love about being myself--in the daily world and in writing--is just what you say: then, the people that like me like me for who I am! And then, acceptance is acceptance of all me.
I've stopped trying to hide faults--if I come across as egotistical or snobby or presumptuous, well, maybe these qualities are part of who I am. I'll continue to work with myself and to look at and examine all aspects of myself. I'll keep working at expressing myself authentically and sensitively towards others. When my faults put others off, then it's ok for it helps me to see areas where I have room for growth and development, and also, I end up with friends who can see me for all of me (faults included) and still accept me.
Such a large part of compassion is realizing that we all have faults--for me, not hiding mine or pretending they don't exist is a way of extending compassion to myself, while also opening up space to grow. And it helps me to extend kindness and acceptance to others, too, when I'm not trying to defend pretenses.
I like the sound of this. Of course, I think it is important to focus on improving when you do notice "faults" in yourself. Like you said, there is room for growth and development in all of us. We're just people, nothing more, nothing less. We need to develop in a changing world. That's why knowing yourself and seeing and accepting even the negative things about yourself is important. That's how people can grow.
Okay, so, I think I should talk about writing again in this thread about writing. Ooh, here's a question that people have already answered in part but maybe we can talk about it more... or if this question has already been asked and talked about and I just can't remember it despite reading everything on this thread, feel free to ignore it, but anyway: What is your planning process for your story? Do you for example sketch out the plotlines, or just write down some things or just put the game on and see what happens? Draw things? Or something else?
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
@RipuAncestor: Your question gives me a good reason to finally post this picture I took of my real chapter planning process (and yeah, I draw on all of my notes. Rarely is it story-related):
These are never the final plans (I finished Chapter 41 already, and I definitely changed a few things...it's a lot less introspective, and Annette doesn't go to jail), but writing down a long-form outline comes after I get the idea for a chapter. Before this, I had the vague ideas of "Annette does a job on her own," "we get a flashback into Bill's past," and "Franco and Bill try to hash out a difficult subject." So outlines like that are the transitional step from getting the idea, to going into my game to shoot it (which is usually followed by the bulk of my writing, but I sometimes pre-write a chapter and only revise a few details once it's shot).
I do have a bulk of my ideas down before going into my game to bring them to life, though. The only thing I leave vague up until the end is dialogue, as the language and tone of it ultimately depends on how the screenshots look (such as if a character ends up looking meaner than I intended).
Also, my question that isn't really a question: Discuss your thoughts/philosophies on writing unlikable characters. Especially unlikable/highly flawed protagonists.
(It's just something I've been thinking about for myself lately)
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
I'm a bit like CathyTea in that when I'm writing I don't think about my readers. I'm curious if this changes going forward as my writing is starting to change. All my life I've written stories, but never with the idea of publishing them (except the short story I submitted to Sword and Sorceress back in High School). For a long time publishing was a goal of mine, but one a nearby goal. I figured I'd do other stuff first while writing, turn fifty and then start publishing. I don't even have that goal any more. But in a way I'm publishing far sooner. Up till this fall, my stories though have been mainly a way to play the the game. So a deep connection with readers wasn't something I was looking for. I would write whatever came first, click publish and then think about the few readers I knew about and wonder if they'd like it.
So I definitely, if not write for myself, write for my characters. (how presumptuous that sounds). I try to write for them so that they can live, otherwise when the game moves on, they are gone. If you enjoy my writing style or my characters, great. If not. That's fine too. If grammar and spelling mistakes drive you up the wall, stay away. When I'm causally writing, I don't really edit.
But as I said, my process is changing, the short stories, Blue Peas, and upcoming Sugar and Spice are more plot driven, although with a serious dose of Sim-freedom because I couldn't take that away from them. To me, the sims are my co-creators, my fellow authors are my co-world builders. My readers. We'll see what I think about them. Since like someone above said (who I just skimmed and couldn't find) said, most of my readers are also fellow writers. It feels more like co-workers than the traditional reader - author relationship you get when you publish a book. Where the chances of you just chatting with say...Anne McCaffery or Oliver Sacks, would be impossible for most of their readers (especially as they have both passed away, cry). I'll have to find new favorite authors.
What is your planning process for your story? Do you for example sketch out the plotlines, or just write down some things or just put the game on and see what happens? Draw things? Or something else?
For my legacy it was go into game and see what happens. It taught me to try to tease plot out of the story. For example when Hank rolled the Public Enemy aspiration it completely didn't fit, until I remembered while he's not an evil sim, he's surrounded by them. So this was his way of expressing the inner Pigglewiggle evil despite my attempts to eradicate the trait.
For Sugar and Spice. I listed the plotline/outline. It's twenty bullet points. Then I started writing from the beginning on paper. Since I'm dealing with mysteries I can't entirely leave it up to my characters to act correctly. I need to know what buildings and sims I need to make. But - I'm still going play the game. I'll put her in the right situations and then see what comes up. So unlike the short stories it won't be a photoshoot/movie scene. Then once I have the images, I'll edit/rewrite the post (and it'll be twice as long I'm sure) and post it. This is what I did with my Blue Peas adventure, and I really like it's guided experience. The sims still get their say since I'm more putting them in situations for them to react. I find sim-independence pretty important. It's their lives I'm playing with. (In my short stories, they're actors, so it's not as bad that I dictate it all).
Check out Raerei's Fortress for Builds, Short Stories, and maybe some longer stuff.
What is your planning process for your story? Do you for example sketch out the plotlines, or just write down some things or just put the game on and see what happens? Draw things? Or something else?
For my mystery stories i know in advance what i will want to happen. I use an excel where i add for each chapter what happens, the time, who the characters are, and where it's set. Once the chapter is written, i go in game, build the sets, and take the screenshots.
I also have a notebook i carry around everywhere. Kinda like @InfraGreen 's notepad Just in case i have a sudden stroke of genius at work, or something like that. It did happen that my boss gave me an idea for example for a plot twist. And he didn't even know about it
For my other story, which was a diary style, i went in game first, saw what happened, then just pretty much decided what goes into one chapter. There was some additional posing and screenshotting too, but i only wrote 1-2 notes for each chapter.
A quick answer to @RipuAncestor 's question about planning: My D2D notes look a lot like @InfraGreen 's! (My PNN ones are slightly less detailed but in a similar format!)
First, I do an outline of my story with a one-sentence description of what will happen in each chapter. For example, the beginning of my outline was something like:
1. Lucas wants to run away
2. Lucas meets Evelyn
3. Lucas decides not to run away, wants more info about Evelyn.
4. Lucas sees Evelyn again.
Etc.
That outline was always typed and saved on my computer.
Then, for each chapter, I hand-write an outline that's very similar to infragreen's style
Mind you, all I've ever written is story/plot-based SimLit, so I've always been a big pre-planner about both of my stories haha
I don't really have much of a planning process. Mostly, when I begin a new chapter, I ask myself a few questions ("Who's not been seen in a while?" "What events from previous chapters can/should be brought up?" etc.)
I suppose my writing/planning process is mostly episodic in nature. Besides some continuity for the sake of the story, I mostly just imagine it in the format of a TV show.
At first, I made use of an external site to write my chapters, but I phased that out early on (I left the site itself).
Discuss your thoughts/philosophies on writing unlikable characters. Especially unlikable/highly flawed protagonists.
I don't know if you've read any of my Seth stuff yet. I was going to link some stuff but then I thought eh. Probably Valley shows him at his most unlikable, and it's way too long to just ask people to read it. Then there's the short story with him as a teen, but it's passworded and I'd rather not post the password in public.
Anyway. I've poured my soul into Seth. And he's a pyromaniac killer who is completely emotionally unavailable, and in some stories he just ignores his wife and in others he actively emotionally abuses her.
It's easy for me to slip into his mind. But I don't worry about that. I know who I am, and I know that I am not an abuser or a killer.
But I do claim Seth as my shadow.
I guess, the way I see it - instead of keeping my shadow unconscious and projecting it on to other real people and taking it out on them, I project it into Seth, and I let it become conscious through fiction. Seth carries my rage and alienation and my aloneness for me, and taking all that angst and pain and turning it into beauty and art helps me heal and helps me stay sane.
And I also think it's a way for readers to learn that maybe their own shadows aren't alien untouchable things, and I hope some of them find a way to get in touch with their own dark sides through Seth.
So much of the horrible things that humans do come from their denial and projection of their shadows and attacking the containers for their projections. I guess one thing I hope my work with Seth achieves for some people is showing them that the dark side is human and is complex and isn't something to just outright reject and hate and punish for its sins.
An old post about Seth from my Tumblr:
So I am trying to do some research on GoT now after answering that question last night, to see if anyone else finds it deeply disturbing and triggering. I am seeing some discussions about moral ambiguity and “gray” characters, and I just read something about how the show (the context was more about the show than the books) seems to do moral ambiguity by having a character do something good and then something really bad and then something good again, and how that doesn’t really work.
I thought about Seth.
I remember back in Valley before he was really on screen, people would get really angry at him and want him to get his “comeuppance”, which never made sense to me but then I knew who he was all along. When he actually showed up in the story, more people started to come around to my point of view.
And one of the most delicious things about my text-only work with Seth as a teenager is that people who had seen him as this irredeemable villain in Valley began to identify with and understand him, and that really creeped them out.
I don’t think he’s a hero or an anti-hero. I don’t think that he does good things or bad things. I don’t even know if I would call him “morally gray”.
What I would call him is complex and traumatized and tragic. And emo.
It’s interesting seeing the different perceptions of people who start reading his stories at different points. Like, with the text-only teenager Seth stories - teenage girls who had never read anything about Seth before thought that he was a cute nerd and that Caitlyn was his social rescuer. People who had read Valley wondered when he was going to kill Caitlyn.
A friend who had only read Seth POV stuff before read the post-Valley work with Sarah and was like “Wow, he can be a mean grumpy pants from other people’s point of view! It’s understandable though, how he got so twisted.”
And maybe that’s it, that’s the point. He is twisted, certainly. But it’s not like “Look he can set people’s houses on fire to kill them but he also pets puppies, so he’s not all bad!"
I think it’s more like "He wasn’t born a psychopath, but he experienced abandonment and rejection and isolation so much that he withdrew into himself and he became disconnected from other people and incapable of relating to them.”
It’s not that he doesn’t love Sarah. It’s that he has no idea what love is or how to handle it or what to do with it. It’s not that he can’t feel empathy. It’s that no one ever really empathized with him until it was too late and he had fallen too far into himself and he couldn’t recognize empathy and he couldn’t understand it when other people, like Sarah, tried their best to love him and care about him.
I don’t see him as either good or bad. I like to joke about him being a dark tormented emo hot villain, and I guess there is a bit of that there, but I also don’t think that he quite fits the “attractive bad boy” trope.
I don’t think anyone would want to be in Sarah’s place. She can’t save him. She wants to, and she has to learn the hard way that she can’t. No one can save Seth but Seth, and no one can save Sarah but Sarah, and you’ll see that if I ever get back to work on Moonfall. Which I do plan to, still. One day. Maybe when the kittens are grown up and/or adopted out.
So, I don’t know. I think that Seth’s experiences made him who he is. But I don’t think that’s an excuse for how he hurts others, either. It’s an explanation, but not an excuse, and I don’t expect anyone who is hurt by him to understand and forgive him.
Lilith is completely freaking traumatized by him, and then she hoists him with his own petard, and that is all her own story of loss and trauma and then regaining her agency and finally taking Seth out, thus reintegrating and becoming the laughter in the waterfall - which if you haven’t read Valley or my ramblings about it before, the waterfall is kind of a symbol for how reality is constantly changing and flowing and how you just have to accept that you’re part of the constant flow. Whereas Seth is the driver of conflict in Valley because he wanted to stop the waterfall. He didn’t want to be part of the flow. He didn’t want to change. He couldn’t accept death. But Lilith could.
I like to think that in those final moments she came to understand and see Seth for who he was, and he understood that, but that didn’t mean forgiveness and letting the troubled bad boy join the good side. He still had to burn. His darkness still had to be eradicated from Sunset Valley, even if it meant that Lilith had to sacrifice herself to do it.
But I do like to think that he at least died with some peace, because Lilith had finally understood him and accepted him when no one else ever did. Well - from his point of view. Also though it is true that while Sarah did her best to accept him and love him, she never really understood him. She sees her idealized view of him, not who he really is.
So yeah, I guess - maybe Seth is more of a tragic figure than anything else. I have often related him to Hamlet.
I guess, in the end - he’s not really good or bad. He’s human.
Your post about Seth was so interesting, @MedleyMisty ! I am definitely intrigued by him and hope to read Valley sometime. I love how deeply you seem to understand him! (Also, in regards to the GoT thing (sorry, I'm a total Fangirl of the books who used to love the show and now has mixed feelings haha) Jaime Lannister is a perfect example of that. In the books, he is my absolutely favorite character. Beautifully flawed and super "gray" (in the best way) and they completely mishandled his character on the show. So upsetting!)
Anyway, I love your question @InfraGreen but I feel like I cannot adequately answer it because I don't have much experience in it! I do love writing characters with flaws (Lucas and Evelyn, anyone? ) but I don't think either one of them was outright unlikeable (though I can name a few readers who have basically nothing positive to say about Lucas, even at the end )
I love the idea of taking it a step further (as Misty seems to have) and write a SUPER flawed protagonist. I think it would be so interesting! I hope others (who have more experience than I do) also chime in on your question, because it's a fascinating subject to me
I guess I should also answer my own question, for the sake of fairness. I usually plan a lot of the things I do in my head, but I only write down a few points I'm afraid I might forget. Like if I've thought up a piece of conversation, or a line, or a metaphor I really like. Usually when I start a story I list the main characters in a similar way as in theatre plays - with a short description afterwards that doesn't really tell anyone much of them. When I start writing, I have an idea of what is going to happen, but not much else. The words usually start flowing after that.
Discuss your thoughts/philosophies on writing unlikable characters. Especially unlikable/highly flawed protagonists.
This is an excellent question, @InfraGreen! And I really liked your analysis on your awesome Seth, @MedleyMisty
I guess, the way I see it - instead of keeping my shadow unconscious and projecting it on to other real people and taking it out on them, I project it into Seth, and I let it become conscious through fiction. Seth carries my rage and alienation and my aloneness for me, and taking all that angst and pain and turning it into beauty and art helps me heal and helps me stay sane.
And I also think it's a way for readers to learn that maybe their own shadows aren't alien untouchable things, and I hope some of them find a way to get in touch with their own dark sides through Seth.
So much of the horrible things that humans do come from their denial and projection of their shadows and attacking the containers for their projections. I guess one thing I hope my work with Seth achieves for some people is showing them that the dark side is human and is complex and isn't something to just outright reject and hate and punish for its sins.
Resonates with me very well. Like I said before, stories are a safe place to deal with dark things, and through unlikable characters people can perhaps explore the darker sides of themselves. Or then just not even try and be like "Well, I'm glad I'm not that guy!", even in situations where they probably should see something of themselves in the flawed character. But hey, different experiences for everyone!
So I got to thinking about this question more while I was trying to fall asleep, and I might do some kind of summary on my rambling thoughts here as well. Yes, this is mostly lifted out of my half-asleep freeflow thoughts, just a fair warning.
First of all there is this point I've thought about a lot. It is that unlikable characters are a very different case than unlikable people in real life. I often say that if I ever saw any of my favourite characters walk on the street, I'd probably run away or somehow end up punching them in the face. Well, except for Discworld's Death. He'd probably be nice enough. So the point is that there is a difference between the feelings a certain behaviour evokes in people when it's done in fiction than it is done in real life. I think this connects to @MedleyMisty's point about people getting in touch with their dark sides.
Then I thought about different ways of depicting a deeply flawed protagonist and ended up thinking of my favourite character ever: Scrooge McDuck. And not just because he's my favourite, but because thanks to being written by probably hundreds of different people and appeared in many different media, he has been depicted in many different ways. But in everything the core flaws of his are present: he's greedy, mean, grouchy, overly proud, and exploits his family as cheap/free labour and sometimes even shows abusive tendencies. Sure, he's not a murdering psychopath or anything, but he does cross the line to awful things in many stories. So yeah, I'd say those traits do make him kind of unlikable, but still he... isn't, really, at least judging by his popularity (especially here in Europe and especially especially here in the Nordics) and the fact that I wouldn't personally classify him as unlikable (and yeah, that's not a very valid argument but hey, it's my opinion).
I think a lot of it has to do with presentation. In some stories he is playing the role of a villain, and then his negative traits are emphasized because the writer wants the readers to not root for him. Then in some stories he is depicted as the hero, but his negative traits are still emphasized, often for the sake of comedy, which may or may not work based on the writer's skill and the way they want us to laugh at the bad things. There is a difference between dark humour and mean humour.
Some writers want to bring out his more positive traits, like his sentimentality and drive for adventure, and the fact that he does care very deeply about his family and deep down isn't nearly as mean and grouchy as he wants to appear. Then the ones I like the most (mostly Carl Barks and Don Rosa), focus on showing us hints that he is what he is because the hardships in his life have molded him into the cynical, greedy 🐸🐸🐸🐸 he is today. They tell us about how his journey to success cost him most of his family and all of his friends, and how he is just too tired to properly care or be moved about the little good things in life. All he has is a giant cube full of memories that are tied to the coins he earned on his travels (and this is partly a sad thing and partly proof that his life really has been worth living).
Okay, enough fangirling, my point was that there are many ways to make unlikable characters a bit, or even way more sympathetic. Then there are of course the characters who are meant to be completely unlikable, like Umbridge from Harry Potter. I usually tend to avoid those kinds of characters in my own writing, because to me it is more interesting to depict characters as people, some of which may not be as great, but who either have some redeeming qualities in them, or then have reasons for being who they are. The reasons behind their awful behaviour doesn't justify it, but it helps the reader understand.
I like characters that can evoke mixed feelings in the audience. I don't think my current Sims story has that many of those because it is focused more on kind of likable (if flawed) characters, but I have written way more unlikable ones in other stories, and I plan on focusing on a bit darker and more unlikable characters in my other SimLit story that's in the works (though it's going to be a bit more humorous in tone so we'll see how dark it gets, probably not that much by my standards).
Okay, I'm late for school again, so I have no time to check if any of this made sense or if it contained typos. Bye!
EDIT: I'd also like to add that the characters who are meant to be hated do have their place in stories as well, I think. It must be refreshing to many to feel free to hate a fictional person and to vent some aggression in a safe environment.
Post edited by RipuAncestor on
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
I have a question after talking to a friend this morning.
Do you guys think there is any difference at all in quality between a beginner and a master, and do you think there is any point in trying to improve?
Or could I get an art gallery to take a piece of paper I scribbled on when I was two because hey, there's no qualitative difference between that and a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh?
I have a question after talking to a friend this morning.
Do you guys think there is any difference at all in quality between a beginner and a master, and do you think there is any point in trying to improve?
Or could I get an art gallery to take a piece of paper I scribbled on when I was two because hey, there's no qualitative difference between that and a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh?
@MedleyMisty: There is a difference and there is a need for improvement with everyone.
Granted, I tend to be easy on beginners with everything, but I always hope that they improve. Improve in the sense that they get a better grasp on the foundation of what they are trying to accomplish. Like it or not, rules and conventions exist in various art forms for a reason, and it takes a certain level of prior knowledge and time following the rules to break them.
With writing, I feel that true mastery of the craft is having a perfect grasp on the foundations of writing, having an intense knowledge of what can be done with the medium, and is always trying to forge something new and original out of it. And is anyone a true master? No. But it's much more satisfying to improve than to stay the same.
@Medleymisty I agree with @InfraGreen that there is a difference and room for improvement. And I really like how @InfraGreen worded her post.
I too don't think that one can ever be truly a master of anything, because one can always get better. I think that with writing, like with many other arts and trades there are several different techniques one can get better at. And besides technical skill, there is also the skill of expression and evoking different feelings in people. Both of those things can be learned, in my opinion, and never perfected.
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
I think there can be masters: I think of John Keeble, who was one of my professors in grad school. I'd call him a master. It came from a lifetime of work and thinking and teaching and living. Also, I've known some teachers who are master teachers, and my first cello teacher is a master cellist.
Mastery comes from a lifetime of discipline and work.
That doesn't mean that there's no room for improvement or that growth stops: it does mean that one has gained the necessary techniques along with the needed understanding to be able to consistently achieve what one sets out to do.
Before mastery (and also when one is venturing into new ground--into areas one hasn't yet mastered), there's always the wondering: Will I be able to pull it off?
But here's something cool: I just realized that all of those whom I consider to be masters don't settle! Once they reach a point where they pull off what they're trying to do, they push themselves further, into new areas, so then, they wonder again, "Will I be able to pull it off?"
So there's mastery--and masters don't settle. They continue to reach and grow and develop into areas they haven't yet mastered, because that's being alive!
@CathyTea I think I meant to say that no one can ever be perfect at anything, but it somehow turned into "master" in my writing. There are indeed many people I would consider masters of their trade.
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
About writing unlikable characters: What great timing for this question!
Up until a few days ago, I've always written characters to be likable, even those who were mean and evil!
I had one character, Anya--a spaced out, slightly psycho girlfriend of the gen 2 spare--whom I didn't like, but many readers liked her best.
But just the other day, in Townie Town, the first character to file her report is one who may end up being very unlikable! She's cute and pretty (and quite funny) so she may end up being loved, but her inner qualities are pretty unlikable and she is quite miserable when she's not relishing in others' misery!
It was fun to write--I mean, really, really fun--and then, in the interim between publishing and receiving comments/likes on the post, I was visited by thoughts like, "Wow. No one will like her. I wonder if people will think that I'm her? Does she even make sens? Will people believe her? [for everything she wrote in her report was a lie!]"
It was fun, actually! Turns out Townie Town has its share of evils, so I guess I'll get a chance to explore more of this!
@CathyTea I think I meant to say that no one can ever be perfect at anything, but it somehow turned into "master" in my writing. There are indeed many people I would consider masters of their trade.
Comments
Reading is so much breathing for me! I wrote an Aimless post about how certain texts have come to me just when I've needed them: The Timing of the Text. And it's really about discovering through reading that I'm not alone in the way I thought I was.
I've always refused to read just from my mind--I've had to read experientially, from all of me. When I was in grad school, I wasn't sure how this approach would work, but I'd already committed myself to this holistic form of reading and analysis and interpretation. And fortunately--it worked! There was room in academia for this type of wild reading that pulls in all of the feelings, all of the body, and all of the mind, and the soul and consciousness, too. There's room for this.
Maybe it's just a matter of finding the right colleagues! Those who get you and resonate with you and share your passion as a reader and a writer!
Though I'm often wilty flowered, I've got secret self-assured trait, especially when it comes to things that I am passionate about, like engaged, full-on reading. So, I've always just put my enthusiasm out there. It drives away those that are cynical and bitter and can't stand it... and as a result, it ends up drawing to me kindred readers! Even if there are just one or two others that will listen when I'm enthusiastic about whatever I'm reading, that's often all it takes!
YES! So your very first question, "How do you guys deal with being alone inside your skulls?"
I deal with it by getting out of it. It's just a trick of being caught up in thought that one finds oneself "alone."
Dive into music, reading, writing, the garden, walks in nature--run, breathe, dance, climb a tree--look at mountains flowers butterflies another's eyes--engage mindfully in anything... and the thoughts stop and one is connected through space with everyone and everything. Then, that "alone inside the skull" ends and one is connected through space with all.
That's what art can do, too--reading also. I really love this quotation that you shared.
I love this idea, too... this is sort of what I was trying to get at with Lost Dark Matter, with the part about how tiny objects keep their identity or integrity when being merged... I'm going through a long Neptunian journey at present--just at the beginning of it--in which my feeling of identity is often lost within the oceanic experience. So a quotation like this, about tiny objects keeping integrity during merging, is a life-saver to me.
It's part of the both/and experience.
I still do feel this is true. I also feel that often people get caught up within their thoughts--feeling separate from others. And (thanks to Shakespeare tragedies), I also feel that people often get caught up in their own brain/hormonal chemistry--their coding--and they respond from that, without having the space to not be impelled by these directives from sociobiological coding. And, I feel that all people have the capacity to learn to separate from that impulsive acting--to learn to pause, to be the ones to determine their actions and responses themselves, rather than simply responding to their coding.
Art teaches empathy. That's one of the ways that it heals.
Yeah, this is super! I think that this is what I was trying to get at when I was writing about your first chapter--how it serves as the doorway to Surreal Darkness. Readers will walk through that doorway if it is meant for them--if they're ready for it and they will find meaning for it.
My Aimless post that I mentioned earlier--I wrote it because I was so blown away about finally having been able to walk through the doorway of T.S. Eliot's poem "Burnt Norton," which had been closed to me all my life. I'd grown up with "Four Quartets" on the bookshelf in the den, and my eyes must have rested on the spine thousands of times--daily for maybe eight years--for I loved that title, but I couldn't find my way into the poem. Then, after my grandpa passed, I got a bag of books from him, and that was in it. I still found no way in. Then this year, a good friend turned me onto it when Lana included it in her latest album, and from there I found the whole poem and the door was wide open and I was in the garden with Eliot. But it took me a lifetime to get there! I had to discover what he's writing about on my own, first, and then it opened.
So... maybe readers come across your work, but at this moment, they're not ready. A seed is still planted. When they are ready, something will happen--the timing of the text will be such that they're led back to it, if it is for them.
All the writer can do is write what wants to be written through her, through him... that's it.
Then, like a butterfly, you let the gift go. Readers will find it if it's right for them and when it's right for them.
My same great friend shared this quotation on his Twitter account today: "...and I become only an instrument of a greater, wiser force...or being...or intelligence than I myself am." It's from the illustrator Eyvind Earle.
And the kind of writing you're talking about is like that.
How do you guys look at your readers?
When I write, I do best if I forget about readers. If I remember them, I begin to censor myself. "Oh, I'll sound presumptuous if I write this..." or "So-and-so was really sarcastic when I started writing this type of thing before..." or even, "I think so-and-so will really like this."
It gets in the way, and I become self-conscious, and I can't either let loose and just have fun (if I'm writing something light) or get out of the way and just let what wants to be written be written through me.
So I do best if I forget all about readers when I write and just open myself to the words and feelings. Or if I just let go and have fun!
What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have?
So... while I do forget about readers while I write, once I hit "Publish" I let myself thing about them again. And then, I want a relationship of friends.
I have such high standards for friendship! For friends have capacity to disagree while still feeling commonality and affection and respect. And that's what I want from readers.
I don't care if we agree--but if they read, I want them to love. And I will love back. And I want openness and respect, two-way.
Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs?
In my job as web-editor, readers are customers--they're not always right, but I am there to supply their needs. That's like a contract.
In my own writing, I never think of readers as customers, and I never think of their needs. I think about the needs of what wants to be expressed through me. The readers will find it, if it offers anything to them.
Do you think of them as co-creators?
Totally. In fact, my favorite readers are those who bring something to what they read--it becomes more as they read it. It becomes alive and transcendent.
This is the kind of reader I am, and this is the kind of reader I want.
Do you think of them as an admiring audience?
Oh, I hope to never be admired! I hate admiration!
I really do feel terribly wilty-flower and separate by admiration.
That said, I am a very admiring reader! I love to praise and to admire writers and well-written works--but it's not an admiring bog type of admiration! It's more like a celebration! And then, I want us to be peers and friends!
Do you think of them at all?
Only after it's written, when I check stats or read comments.
I like it when a good friend reads it and says, "Oh! My heart was thinking that the other day!" or when a friend reads and says, "Not my experience, but how amazing that you feel like that!"
And mostly, I like it when someone reads and says, "Ah, life!" For life really is big enough to encompass it all!
Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
Okay, here goes:
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
In life, I feel like I do very few things just to please someone else. Of course I like making other people happy, and I love expressing my empathy and caring to them in different ways, such as through basic kindness and small favours. However, when I create, be it writing, drawing, or turning trash into environmental art, I do it because I want to. Because there is an image in my head that wants to get out. Or because there is something I want to put into words or just explore some themes or thoughts through text. Or because I've looked at a pile of lovely cardboard tea boxes and figured they would make a good tapestry. Yes, sometimes I like doing commissions, like portraits, and that's when I do think of my customers, of course. However, I've never been commissioned a story, and I can't even see that ever working very well, so I have never thought of my readers as customers.
When I create, I pour a lot of myself into my work, no matter what the medium. I want to express things that are important to me and talk about themes and ideas I feel this world needs in order to become better. Usually I feel like I cut myself into little pieces and scatter them into the story and the different characters. Sometimes it's more obvious than others, but every time I write, I am there. And whenever I read fiction, I am there as well. Sometimes getting into the story and seeing the images in my head and feeling all the emotions the story conveys is easier than others, but for me it's never exactly difficult. I start reading and I am somewhere else. And I know this experience is not the same for everyone, and I'm not expecting it to be, but I think there are plenty of people who do feel similar things. At least on this forum I see a lot of them.
To me, readers are people. Or whatever other animal they might be. I mean, who knows when dogs or cats start to read? They have their own lives I might never know much about, but I know that something has led them to stumble upon my story. I suppose that to me, everyone who even gives a passing glimpse to what I write is someone I have reached in some way. So I guess I see my readers as an audience that's out there somewhere, and whom I'd like to move/make happy/get to thinking with my writing, but whom I don't really need to compromise myself for when I'm in my writing process. Of course I want to write something that is good and could be enjoyed by at least someone, but I don't care if there are only a few of those who look at my stories and think, "Hey, that might be something good!". It would be nice to get more than a handful of readers, of course (though maybe not tons of more, it could be stressful), but I'm not going to try to get them by changing what I want to write. I have operated on the ideal of being myself almost all my life. When I was younger and wanted to be accepted by being something that I wasn't, even in little ways, all it did was hurt me deeply. I quickly learned my lesson and stopped it. Yeah, sure, it cost me my friends and I ended up being pretty alone and bullied for years, but hey, then I made friends who really like me for what I am so it all worked out. Also, as an introvert, I didn't mind being alone all that much.
That doesn't mean I've totally closed off my mind to reader feedback. Far from it. I LOVE getting feedback from my readers, because through that I can become a better writer and to see how my story is being received. Like @CathyTea said, I also start to think of my readers the moment I publish my story. The relationship I'd want with my readers is that of... uh... mutual communication? If that sounds too clinical, then online companionship? Maybe even friendship, but that takes more time. If someone stops to comment on my work, I'll do my best to reply to them because I want to establish a connection to the reader. I also like to connect with other writers by commenting on their work (something I'm only slowly getting better with; I've been a very quiet reader of online things for years because I have this stupid thought in my head that if I comment on something, I have to comment on all of the things I've liked and the thought fills me with dread. Like I said, stupid). But I don't exactly mind if someone reads my story and doesn't want to share their thoughts either. Everyone has the right to have experiences that are theirs and theirs alone and belong to no one else. I do hope that my readers aren't afraid of giving me feedback, though, even if it was negative. Every experience and opinion matters to me, and I love hearing the different points of views people have. Sometimes a reader has seen completely different things about my story than what I intended, and usually it's a wonderful realisation.
Would negative comments make me feel negative feelings? Yes. But I know that those feelings are just as important as the positive ones.
So I especially like it when readers want to talk to me and tell me what they think of my story. And even though I said I'm not going to let others dictate what I write, I am going to analyse every suggestion for improvement I get. If someone told me they were hurt by my writing because I hadn't dealt with some sensitive subject matter well enough (thankfully this hasn't happened yet), it would probably make me question my tactfulness and make me seriously rewrite things. If someone pointed out a plot hole or a continuity error that I hadn't considered, I'd of course be thankful and probably fix it (which has happened in another storytelling community). But if someone were to give me suggestions for where they think my story should go, I would thank them and maybe consider it, but actually implementing that idea would make me feel uncomfortable. I mean, if the idea is good, I'd much rather like it if the reader used the great idea they have for a story of their own and not let me take it, even though I would give them credit for the idea. And there's also the fact that I really want the things I create to feel like something I myself have done. In an art school I went to when I was little, I had some teachers who liked to paint large parts of the students' art pieces for us, whether we wanted it or not. I really hated it, because the end result wasn't me. Sure, it might have looked better than what the eight-year-old that was me might have made, but I didn't care because for me, creating art is about the expression of the artist and the exploration of their minds and skills. If I want to make art in groups (which is a nice way to make art too), I'll get into a group. But if I want to do something on my own, I don't want anyone picking up a pen and start drawing their vision on my work.
Wow, that started sounding hostile. I'm just still really annoyed by those teachers even after all these years. Thankfully most of the teachers there were really great.
So in summary: I want to communicate with my readers and hear about the different experiences they have, but my writing is about expressing what's in my head.
And to your another question, @MedleyMisty Sometimes I like being alone inside my head. It's a place where I can sort out my thoughts in peace. Sometimes (most of the times) it's buzzing with things I have trouble sorting out and that can't get outside because I feel like they wouldn't be understood. Sometimes there is this disconnect I mentioned earlier, like a wall between me and the world. My trick of getting out of it is either expressing myself through visual arts or writing, or finding people who do share similar thoughts and feelings. I've managed to gather a circle of friends and loved ones with whom I can talk about most of the things, so that helps me a lot.
Also, I do believe most humans are capable of basic empathy. Nowadays the problem is more that with the way especially the western society is organised, empathy and caring are not encouraged enough. It's too much about profit and competing with each other and thinking of what everyone deserves instead of thinking how people could share happiness without taking it away from others. Still, there's hope. It starts with individuals wanting to make a difference and spreading kindness into the world. The world is a dark place, but it's not totally lost.
On a lighter note: I have heard of the Andy Griffith Show, but only by name. Never watched it. Still, a cool piece of info to know!
@CitizenErased14 I'll have you know that I've slept very well the last couple of nights and I'm not tired at all! I am hungry though, and I'm not sure if I have enough food to last for the entire weekend. Tomorrow's Finnish independence day so everything will be closed. Darn.
Still, I'm feeling fine, and I hope you got some sleep.
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
Most of my readers also write stories, so we are each others' readers at the same time. It's almost like we are "colleagues"
I didn't really have expectations when i started, and till this day when i see a comment i get really excited about them. Like "omg, people actually want to talk about the stuff i just scribbled there!!"
I don't take them as co-creators though for the stories i wrote so far. I remember in the beginning of my first detective story most commenters hinted that they want the two main characters to get together. For me it was never the intention. I though if there was a moment between them, maybe, but it just never happened. I won't make it happen just because someone asked for it, if i don't feel that it would actually be a part of my story if i just wrote it for myself, or if i didn't feel while writing that it comes naturally.
If i was writing a different kind of story, maybe it would be an option. Like if i was specifically write a story with open choices and votes.
Regrets (Finished)
Abbie's Diary (Finished)
Mistakes
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
I tend to not worry about readership in general.
Basically, if they want to read the story, great! But if they don't, that's okay, too. Mainly, I take the mindset of, "It's there if you want to take a look at it."
I'm very grateful when I get new readers, yes. But I don't hold it against anyone if the story isn't to their liking. Different people have different tastes, after all.
Part One(Complete 9/24/16) /Part Two(on hold)/Short Stories(on hold)/Twinbrook 1996(on hold)/Ten Crystal Hearts (on hold)
I own the TS3 Store as of 12/11/16 (sort of. It's complicated)
A few points that @RipuAncestor made really resonate with me:
This is so much my reading experience--I really enter into the worlds and characters I read about! I love that experience, and I suppose that's a large reason that I read!
I'm an introvert, too, and when I'm alone, I'm never lonely! I always feel great! The times I feel lonely are when I'm trying or wanting to connect with others, and the connections just aren't available!
Also what I love about being myself--in the daily world and in writing--is just what you say: then, the people that like me like me for who I am! And then, acceptance is acceptance of all me.
I've stopped trying to hide faults--if I come across as egotistical or snobby or presumptuous, well, maybe these qualities are part of who I am. I'll continue to work with myself and to look at and examine all aspects of myself. I'll keep working at expressing myself authentically and sensitively towards others. When my faults put others off, then it's ok for it helps me to see areas where I have room for growth and development, and also, I end up with friends who can see me for all of me (faults included) and still accept me.
Such a large part of compassion is realizing that we all have faults--for me, not hiding mine or pretending they don't exist is a way of extending compassion to myself, while also opening up space to grow. And it helps me to extend kindness and acceptance to others, too, when I'm not trying to defend pretenses.
Hmmm... where did this train of thought come from? I guess it came from the statement about being true to yourself, rather than pretending in order to be accepted.
Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
Just watched this amazing video that a friend of mine shared with me of Eyvind Earle about what is sacred in art:
Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
I like the sound of this. Of course, I think it is important to focus on improving when you do notice "faults" in yourself. Like you said, there is room for growth and development in all of us. We're just people, nothing more, nothing less. We need to develop in a changing world. That's why knowing yourself and seeing and accepting even the negative things about yourself is important. That's how people can grow.
Okay, so, I think I should talk about writing again in this thread about writing. Ooh, here's a question that people have already answered in part but maybe we can talk about it more... or if this question has already been asked and talked about and I just can't remember it despite reading everything on this thread, feel free to ignore it, but anyway: What is your planning process for your story? Do you for example sketch out the plotlines, or just write down some things or just put the game on and see what happens? Draw things? Or something else?
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
These are never the final plans (I finished Chapter 41 already, and I definitely changed a few things...it's a lot less introspective, and Annette doesn't go to jail), but writing down a long-form outline comes after I get the idea for a chapter. Before this, I had the vague ideas of "Annette does a job on her own," "we get a flashback into Bill's past," and "Franco and Bill try to hash out a difficult subject." So outlines like that are the transitional step from getting the idea, to going into my game to shoot it (which is usually followed by the bulk of my writing, but I sometimes pre-write a chapter and only revise a few details once it's shot).
I do have a bulk of my ideas down before going into my game to bring them to life, though. The only thing I leave vague up until the end is dialogue, as the language and tone of it ultimately depends on how the screenshots look (such as if a character ends up looking meaner than I intended).
outrun / blog / tunglr
(It's just something I've been thinking about for myself lately)
outrun / blog / tunglr
I'm a bit like CathyTea in that when I'm writing I don't think about my readers. I'm curious if this changes going forward as my writing is starting to change. All my life I've written stories, but never with the idea of publishing them (except the short story I submitted to Sword and Sorceress back in High School). For a long time publishing was a goal of mine, but one a nearby goal. I figured I'd do other stuff first while writing, turn fifty and then start publishing. I don't even have that goal any more. But in a way I'm publishing far sooner. Up till this fall, my stories though have been mainly a way to play the the game. So a deep connection with readers wasn't something I was looking for. I would write whatever came first, click publish and then think about the few readers I knew about and wonder if they'd like it.
So I definitely, if not write for myself, write for my characters. (how presumptuous that sounds). I try to write for them so that they can live, otherwise when the game moves on, they are gone. If you enjoy my writing style or my characters, great. If not. That's fine too. If grammar and spelling mistakes drive you up the wall, stay away. When I'm causally writing, I don't really edit.
But as I said, my process is changing, the short stories, Blue Peas, and upcoming Sugar and Spice are more plot driven, although with a serious dose of Sim-freedom because I couldn't take that away from them. To me, the sims are my co-creators, my fellow authors are my co-world builders. My readers. We'll see what I think about them. Since like someone above said (who I just skimmed and couldn't find) said, most of my readers are also fellow writers. It feels more like co-workers than the traditional reader - author relationship you get when you publish a book. Where the chances of you just chatting with say...Anne McCaffery or Oliver Sacks, would be impossible for most of their readers (especially as they have both passed away, cry). I'll have to find new favorite authors.
What is your planning process for your story? Do you for example sketch out the plotlines, or just write down some things or just put the game on and see what happens? Draw things? Or something else?
For my legacy it was go into game and see what happens. It taught me to try to tease plot out of the story. For example when Hank rolled the Public Enemy aspiration it completely didn't fit, until I remembered while he's not an evil sim, he's surrounded by them. So this was his way of expressing the inner Pigglewiggle evil despite my attempts to eradicate the trait.
For Sugar and Spice. I listed the plotline/outline. It's twenty bullet points. Then I started writing from the beginning on paper. Since I'm dealing with mysteries I can't entirely leave it up to my characters to act correctly. I need to know what buildings and sims I need to make. But - I'm still going play the game. I'll put her in the right situations and then see what comes up. So unlike the short stories it won't be a photoshoot/movie scene. Then once I have the images, I'll edit/rewrite the post (and it'll be twice as long I'm sure) and post it. This is what I did with my Blue Peas adventure, and I really like it's guided experience. The sims still get their say since I'm more putting them in situations for them to react. I find sim-independence pretty important. It's their lives I'm playing with. (In my short stories, they're actors, so it's not as bad that I dictate it all).
I also have a notebook i carry around everywhere. Kinda like @InfraGreen 's notepad
For my other story, which was a diary style, i went in game first, saw what happened, then just pretty much decided what goes into one chapter. There was some additional posing and screenshotting too, but i only wrote 1-2 notes for each chapter.
Regrets (Finished)
Abbie's Diary (Finished)
Mistakes
I don't have one. I just kind of write things, lol. Goes straight from my subconscious to my fingers.
I find that as I write the story sort of forms itself and lets my fingers know where it wants to go.
First, I do an outline of my story with a one-sentence description of what will happen in each chapter. For example, the beginning of my outline was something like:
1. Lucas wants to run away
2. Lucas meets Evelyn
3. Lucas decides not to run away, wants more info about Evelyn.
4. Lucas sees Evelyn again.
Etc.
That outline was always typed and saved on my computer.
Then, for each chapter, I hand-write an outline that's very similar to infragreen's style
Mind you, all I've ever written is story/plot-based SimLit, so I've always been a big pre-planner about both of my stories haha
I don't really have much of a planning process. Mostly, when I begin a new chapter, I ask myself a few questions ("Who's not been seen in a while?" "What events from previous chapters can/should be brought up?" etc.)
I suppose my writing/planning process is mostly episodic in nature. Besides some continuity for the sake of the story, I mostly just imagine it in the format of a TV show.
At first, I made use of an external site to write my chapters, but I phased that out early on (I left the site itself).
So...Not a lot of planning, I guess.
Part One(Complete 9/24/16) /Part Two(on hold)/Short Stories(on hold)/Twinbrook 1996(on hold)/Ten Crystal Hearts (on hold)
I own the TS3 Store as of 12/11/16 (sort of. It's complicated)
Discuss your thoughts/philosophies on writing unlikable characters. Especially unlikable/highly flawed protagonists.
I don't know if you've read any of my Seth stuff yet. I was going to link some stuff but then I thought eh. Probably Valley shows him at his most unlikable, and it's way too long to just ask people to read it. Then there's the short story with him as a teen, but it's passworded and I'd rather not post the password in public.
I guess maybe this one will do: Because Death Would Not Stop For Seth
Anyway. I've poured my soul into Seth. And he's a pyromaniac killer who is completely emotionally unavailable, and in some stories he just ignores his wife and in others he actively emotionally abuses her.
It's easy for me to slip into his mind. But I don't worry about that. I know who I am, and I know that I am not an abuser or a killer.
But I do claim Seth as my shadow.
I guess, the way I see it - instead of keeping my shadow unconscious and projecting it on to other real people and taking it out on them, I project it into Seth, and I let it become conscious through fiction. Seth carries my rage and alienation and my aloneness for me, and taking all that angst and pain and turning it into beauty and art helps me heal and helps me stay sane.
And I also think it's a way for readers to learn that maybe their own shadows aren't alien untouchable things, and I hope some of them find a way to get in touch with their own dark sides through Seth.
So much of the horrible things that humans do come from their denial and projection of their shadows and attacking the containers for their projections. I guess one thing I hope my work with Seth achieves for some people is showing them that the dark side is human and is complex and isn't something to just outright reject and hate and punish for its sins.
An old post about Seth from my Tumblr:
So I am trying to do some research on GoT now after answering that question last night, to see if anyone else finds it deeply disturbing and triggering. I am seeing some discussions about moral ambiguity and “gray” characters, and I just read something about how the show (the context was more about the show than the books) seems to do moral ambiguity by having a character do something good and then something really bad and then something good again, and how that doesn’t really work.
I thought about Seth.
I remember back in Valley before he was really on screen, people would get really angry at him and want him to get his “comeuppance”, which never made sense to me but then I knew who he was all along. When he actually showed up in the story, more people started to come around to my point of view.
And one of the most delicious things about my text-only work with Seth as a teenager is that people who had seen him as this irredeemable villain in Valley began to identify with and understand him, and that really creeped them out.
I don’t think he’s a hero or an anti-hero. I don’t think that he does good things or bad things. I don’t even know if I would call him “morally gray”.
What I would call him is complex and traumatized and tragic. And emo.
It’s interesting seeing the different perceptions of people who start reading his stories at different points. Like, with the text-only teenager Seth stories - teenage girls who had never read anything about Seth before thought that he was a cute nerd and that Caitlyn was his social rescuer. People who had read Valley wondered when he was going to kill Caitlyn.
A friend who had only read Seth POV stuff before read the post-Valley work with Sarah and was like “Wow, he can be a mean grumpy pants from other people’s point of view! It’s understandable though, how he got so twisted.”
And maybe that’s it, that’s the point. He is twisted, certainly. But it’s not like “Look he can set people’s houses on fire to kill them but he also pets puppies, so he’s not all bad!"
I think it’s more like "He wasn’t born a psychopath, but he experienced abandonment and rejection and isolation so much that he withdrew into himself and he became disconnected from other people and incapable of relating to them.”
It’s not that he doesn’t love Sarah. It’s that he has no idea what love is or how to handle it or what to do with it. It’s not that he can’t feel empathy. It’s that no one ever really empathized with him until it was too late and he had fallen too far into himself and he couldn’t recognize empathy and he couldn’t understand it when other people, like Sarah, tried their best to love him and care about him.
I don’t see him as either good or bad. I like to joke about him being a dark tormented emo hot villain, and I guess there is a bit of that there, but I also don’t think that he quite fits the “attractive bad boy” trope.
I don’t think anyone would want to be in Sarah’s place. She can’t save him. She wants to, and she has to learn the hard way that she can’t. No one can save Seth but Seth, and no one can save Sarah but Sarah, and you’ll see that if I ever get back to work on Moonfall. Which I do plan to, still. One day. Maybe when the kittens are grown up and/or adopted out.
So, I don’t know. I think that Seth’s experiences made him who he is. But I don’t think that’s an excuse for how he hurts others, either. It’s an explanation, but not an excuse, and I don’t expect anyone who is hurt by him to understand and forgive him.
Lilith is completely freaking traumatized by him, and then she hoists him with his own petard, and that is all her own story of loss and trauma and then regaining her agency and finally taking Seth out, thus reintegrating and becoming the laughter in the waterfall - which if you haven’t read Valley or my ramblings about it before, the waterfall is kind of a symbol for how reality is constantly changing and flowing and how you just have to accept that you’re part of the constant flow. Whereas Seth is the driver of conflict in Valley because he wanted to stop the waterfall. He didn’t want to be part of the flow. He didn’t want to change. He couldn’t accept death. But Lilith could.
I like to think that in those final moments she came to understand and see Seth for who he was, and he understood that, but that didn’t mean forgiveness and letting the troubled bad boy join the good side. He still had to burn. His darkness still had to be eradicated from Sunset Valley, even if it meant that Lilith had to sacrifice herself to do it.
But I do like to think that he at least died with some peace, because Lilith had finally understood him and accepted him when no one else ever did. Well - from his point of view. Also though it is true that while Sarah did her best to accept him and love him, she never really understood him. She sees her idealized view of him, not who he really is.
So yeah, I guess - maybe Seth is more of a tragic figure than anything else. I have often related him to Hamlet.
I guess, in the end - he’s not really good or bad. He’s human.
Anyway, I love your question @InfraGreen but I feel like I cannot adequately answer it because I don't have much experience in it! I do love writing characters with flaws (Lucas and Evelyn, anyone?
I love the idea of taking it a step further (as Misty seems to have) and write a SUPER flawed protagonist. I think it would be so interesting! I hope others (who have more experience than I do) also chime in on your question, because it's a fascinating subject to me
Discuss your thoughts/philosophies on writing unlikable characters. Especially unlikable/highly flawed protagonists.
This is an excellent question, @InfraGreen! And I really liked your analysis on your awesome Seth, @MedleyMisty
Especially this:
Resonates with me very well. Like I said before, stories are a safe place to deal with dark things, and through unlikable characters people can perhaps explore the darker sides of themselves. Or then just not even try and be like "Well, I'm glad I'm not that guy!", even in situations where they probably should see something of themselves in the flawed character. But hey, different experiences for everyone!
So I got to thinking about this question more while I was trying to fall asleep, and I might do some kind of summary on my rambling thoughts here as well. Yes, this is mostly lifted out of my half-asleep freeflow thoughts, just a fair warning.
First of all there is this point I've thought about a lot. It is that unlikable characters are a very different case than unlikable people in real life. I often say that if I ever saw any of my favourite characters walk on the street, I'd probably run away or somehow end up punching them in the face. Well, except for Discworld's Death. He'd probably be nice enough. So the point is that there is a difference between the feelings a certain behaviour evokes in people when it's done in fiction than it is done in real life. I think this connects to @MedleyMisty's point about people getting in touch with their dark sides.
Then I thought about different ways of depicting a deeply flawed protagonist and ended up thinking of my favourite character ever: Scrooge McDuck. And not just because he's my favourite, but because thanks to being written by probably hundreds of different people and appeared in many different media, he has been depicted in many different ways. But in everything the core flaws of his are present: he's greedy, mean, grouchy, overly proud, and exploits his family as cheap/free labour and sometimes even shows abusive tendencies. Sure, he's not a murdering psychopath or anything, but he does cross the line to awful things in many stories. So yeah, I'd say those traits do make him kind of unlikable, but still he... isn't, really, at least judging by his popularity (especially here in Europe and especially especially here in the Nordics) and the fact that I wouldn't personally classify him as unlikable (and yeah, that's not a very valid argument but hey, it's my opinion).
I think a lot of it has to do with presentation. In some stories he is playing the role of a villain, and then his negative traits are emphasized because the writer wants the readers to not root for him. Then in some stories he is depicted as the hero, but his negative traits are still emphasized, often for the sake of comedy, which may or may not work based on the writer's skill and the way they want us to laugh at the bad things. There is a difference between dark humour and mean humour.
Some writers want to bring out his more positive traits, like his sentimentality and drive for adventure, and the fact that he does care very deeply about his family and deep down isn't nearly as mean and grouchy as he wants to appear. Then the ones I like the most (mostly Carl Barks and Don Rosa), focus on showing us hints that he is what he is because the hardships in his life have molded him into the cynical, greedy 🐸🐸🐸🐸 he is today. They tell us about how his journey to success cost him most of his family and all of his friends, and how he is just too tired to properly care or be moved about the little good things in life. All he has is a giant cube full of memories that are tied to the coins he earned on his travels (and this is partly a sad thing and partly proof that his life really has been worth living).
Okay, enough fangirling, my point was that there are many ways to make unlikable characters a bit, or even way more sympathetic. Then there are of course the characters who are meant to be completely unlikable, like Umbridge from Harry Potter. I usually tend to avoid those kinds of characters in my own writing, because to me it is more interesting to depict characters as people, some of which may not be as great, but who either have some redeeming qualities in them, or then have reasons for being who they are. The reasons behind their awful behaviour doesn't justify it, but it helps the reader understand.
I like characters that can evoke mixed feelings in the audience. I don't think my current Sims story has that many of those because it is focused more on kind of likable (if flawed) characters, but I have written way more unlikable ones in other stories, and I plan on focusing on a bit darker and more unlikable characters in my other SimLit story that's in the works (though it's going to be a bit more humorous in tone so we'll see how dark it gets, probably not that much by my standards).
Okay, I'm late for school again, so I have no time to check if any of this made sense or if it contained typos. Bye!
EDIT: I'd also like to add that the characters who are meant to be hated do have their place in stories as well, I think. It must be refreshing to many to feel free to hate a fictional person and to vent some aggression in a safe environment.
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
Do you guys think there is any difference at all in quality between a beginner and a master, and do you think there is any point in trying to improve?
Or could I get an art gallery to take a piece of paper I scribbled on when I was two because hey, there's no qualitative difference between that and a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh?
@MedleyMisty: There is a difference and there is a need for improvement with everyone.
Granted, I tend to be easy on beginners with everything, but I always hope that they improve. Improve in the sense that they get a better grasp on the foundation of what they are trying to accomplish. Like it or not, rules and conventions exist in various art forms for a reason, and it takes a certain level of prior knowledge and time following the rules to break them.
With writing, I feel that true mastery of the craft is having a perfect grasp on the foundations of writing, having an intense knowledge of what can be done with the medium, and is always trying to forge something new and original out of it. And is anyone a true master? No. But it's much more satisfying to improve than to stay the same.
outrun / blog / tunglr
I too don't think that one can ever be truly a master of anything, because one can always get better. I think that with writing, like with many other arts and trades there are several different techniques one can get better at. And besides technical skill, there is also the skill of expression and evoking different feelings in people. Both of those things can be learned, in my opinion, and never perfected.
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
Mastery comes from a lifetime of discipline and work.
That doesn't mean that there's no room for improvement or that growth stops: it does mean that one has gained the necessary techniques along with the needed understanding to be able to consistently achieve what one sets out to do.
Before mastery (and also when one is venturing into new ground--into areas one hasn't yet mastered), there's always the wondering: Will I be able to pull it off?
But here's something cool: I just realized that all of those whom I consider to be masters don't settle! Once they reach a point where they pull off what they're trying to do, they push themselves further, into new areas, so then, they wonder again, "Will I be able to pull it off?"
So there's mastery--and masters don't settle. They continue to reach and grow and develop into areas they haven't yet mastered, because that's being alive!
Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
Up until a few days ago, I've always written characters to be likable, even those who were mean and evil!
I had one character, Anya--a spaced out, slightly psycho girlfriend of the gen 2 spare--whom I didn't like, but many readers liked her best.
But just the other day, in Townie Town, the first character to file her report is one who may end up being very unlikable! She's cute and pretty (and quite funny) so she may end up being loved, but her inner qualities are pretty unlikable and she is quite miserable when she's not relishing in others' misery!
It was fun to write--I mean, really, really fun--and then, in the interim between publishing and receiving comments/likes on the post, I was visited by thoughts like, "Wow. No one will like her. I wonder if people will think that I'm her? Does she even make sens? Will people believe her? [for everything she wrote in her report was a lie!]"
It was fun, actually! Turns out Townie Town has its share of evils, so I guess I'll get a chance to explore more of this!
Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
Yeah, for sure! That's how I see it, too!
Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!