@CathyTea Thanks for the shoutout and the kind words again. And thanks for making that list, in general. Those are some good recommendations (the others. I can't comment on my own work, but I will be happy if someone checks them out). Also I definitely second @AdamsEve1231 's shoutout to Cathy. Her stories are so warm and cosy, and profound and thought-provoking at the same time.
As for the ensemble cast -thing:
First of all, you @AdamsEve1231 , @InfraGreen and @rednenemon are really good with ensemble casts. It's so cool how you keep track of everyone.
I think that my Tango has a fairly large cast, and it has a changing POV so I guess it takes some keeping track of. So I guess I'll answer AdamsEve's questions:
Sorry, I think someone with a better queer rep in their stories than me should have made that joke. Anyway, as for how I keep track of them, I also have a list (not a very detailed one, just basically like a theatre-play dramatis personae -sort of list) of characters, as well as some other notes on where I want them to end up, what their ages are, etc.
How do you develop your characters? Do you write backstory that you don't include in your main story?
I try to either develop them as they naturally develop in the story, or then offer a snapshot of their lives when it feels appropriate, if they don't have that much development time. I really like these character introduction-moments, where I can try to infodump stuff in a way that I try to make at least somewhat entertaining. I do have some developments I want to happen to certain characters, and I set out to slowly build up towards them in a hopefully organic-for-the-genre way.
Also yeah, I do have some backstory for characters that doesn't show in the main story. Sometimes I slip snippets of it in, but for some, like one of my main characters (Novak), the backstory is kept a secret on purpose. I've still written it, in a whole short story and everything. He's also ironically the only Sim of the main Tango-cast who was created as a child and then played into adulthood, so he's the one who actually has the most backstory in-game.
Or do you avoid multiple perspectives and stick to single POV?
Depends on the work. In Tango I switch up a lot, but with my other SimLit stories I only have about two or three different POV-characters. The way I switch points of view is very uh... I was going to say intuitive but that gives me way too much credit. I switch POV when it just feels appropriate, is what I'm trying to say. I choose the point of view for whichever feels the most effective, which keeps the necessary secrets or reveals the necessary details, or which is the most relevant for the scene etc.
With my other stories, Forget-Me-Not and Stardust Sapling, I try to keep the POV changes in-between chapters, so one chapter is always just one point of view. It helps that in those stories I also try to keep the chapters shorter.
Post edited by RipuAncestor on
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
What about everyone else? Do you write with large ensembles of characters?
Somehow I do (regardless of whether I'm writing Simlit or fanfiction. I don't know how it keeps happening, but a lot of the time I end up with numerous characters that got thrown in (perhaps mostly as a minor character/significant cameo/I don't know why they're even there in the first place).
How do you keep people straight? How do you develop your characters?
how do i what now
You could say they develop themselves. I suppose I go with one or two things I decide to associate with them, and let it grow from there.
Do you write backstory that you don't include in your main story? Or do you avoid multiple perspectives and stick to single POV?
All the time. Sometimes I do show snippets here and there, but for the most part I don't really delve into backstories all that deeply. To try and explain a bit more:
In the Final Arc of Part One of Chronicles, Annette (and the reader) are subjected to various bits and pieces of most of the characters' pasts. They give a bit of insight that I made up on that character, but ultimately their backstories may go largely unexplored. Unless I deem it vital to the story as a whole, I might not go in to it too much.
As for multiple POVs, I seem to always do that. Sometimes I linger on one character, then I go to another one's point of view as a sort of "Meanwhile..."
Thank you so much for the direct links to your stories/stories you love! Maybe I'm new or its common, but I find the forum overwhelming with so many choices, threads, events, and challenges ongoing, and then having to browse sim wiki or search online for newbie questions like 'what is a legacy family/challenge'. I picture myself getting thrown in a marching band in the middle of a parade, and everyone has their position, role and interests figured out while I'm waddling in baby steps.
@CathyTea, I'm loving your reading list. When I first browsed Creative Corner, I was hoping for a thread which categorised stories by genre, plot, something to make it easier to navigate should I feel like doing light reading or venture into a deep adventure. Can't wait to build a Simlit reading collection from there Also thank you for checking out my story!
@Firande, Cheers! I can't wait to read your works. I feel sheepish to talk about mine, considering how green I am, but here goes. Between2Worlds is about a girl born on the wrong side of celebrity stardom. For all the privileges it brought, the price she felt was unbearable. As she struggles to find acceptance and a sense of belonging, she meets people (and beings) from polar opposite backgrounds, yet they were just like her - caught in a web of contrasts and contradictions. Together they explore what each side has to offer, and ultimately try to find their place in life. The story is mostly drama, romance and supernatural and the themes explored are of privilege & disadvantage, fame & infamy, normal & crime world. Ps. they won't stay teens forever.
Thank you for taking an interest in my story, but I need to rewrite the first few subchapters. I get horrible goosebumps rereading the first few posts ugh.. You're welcome to read it of course, but if you like, I could let you know when I post a proper thread of the story on the forums, with updates and links and all that
I started a new blog. Simterra Tales! It's a site for all my worldbuilding as all my Sims stories take place on an alternate world. I'm not sure if anyone will really want to read stuff there, but I thought it would be a fun project. If you have the opportunity, I have two posts up already... I'd love for you to check it out.
I'm not sure if this is the best way to do this or if anyone will even see this but I'm looking for someone with sims 4 storytelling or general writing experience to help me out with a project. The idea is a hilariously dramatic sims murder mystery graphic novel. I have a bunch of ideas for plot, characters and staging but my writing skills aren't that great lol. So if you're seeing this and are interested on working on this with me, message me on my tumblr (cherrysodasims) :) thanks!
I'm not sure how active this still is (i.e. how many of you still lurk here) but I figured I'd leave a comment anyway. I really like this thread and all the questions and discussions in it, and they've given me a lot of my insight on my own writing already (page 24 currently...). So yeah. Thank you guys for putting your thoughts out to the interweb!
I'm actually collecting all the answered questions and plan to answer these that I feel I should reflect most on right now - just for me. But if this is still active I'd gladly stick my thoughts here to re-start the discussion, or, as @CathyTea told @MedleyMisty a few pages of reading ago - to give some new ideas so it can sprout insights again...
Never! This thread never dies! It just daydreams, to germinate on new ideas, so that it sprout insights anew!
The hard part is reading the discussions and wanting to share my 2 cents, then remembering "oh wait this was 6 years ago"... (And also I feel like you guys are much more proficient as writers, so I'm somehow glad in a weird way this was long ago because else I'd feel like trying to peep up in a upperclassmen discussion - or what that looks like in media, I'm not from the US so I lack that cultural knowledge )
Yes, me neither! Actually I can't even tell you how I found it but I'm glad as heck I did
And I find I really wish it were still active as this place to ponder writing questions - less the "How do you think this paragraph sounds" from Cathy's other threads, but stuff like the evolution of (my) writing. Rewriting stuff. Worldbuilding and fleshing out side characters without losing the main focus to the story. What that main focus, the core of ones story actually is. And that's just the ones I can think of at the top of my head...
Sigh. Do you think we could do that, with or without the lovely writers from "Round 1"?
Since I mentioned that I was collecting all the questions from this thread while reading through it, I figured I could share the collection It's 4 pages currently and I am not even halfway through, so...
I think these questions are an awesome starting place for reflections on ones own SimLit, although I'D encourage everybody to go read through the answers and this thread with all its new thoughts themselves.
So after this unneccesarily long explanation (I really really need to go to bed) - here you go.
Oh yeah, and as always - please be aware of the fact that if you are logged into a google account with your offline name and then access a Google Doc shared online, that Offline Name will be visible. Be careful about your data and in doubt, please log out first or (like me) have a separate account under a pen name for stuff like this.
I normally don't comment on old threads, but I see a thread like this as something that could easily be a helpful, engaging and ongoing discussion, as opposed to reviving something that's no longer relevant- it'd be good to see something like this come back to life for all the writers. @miss_eulenauge I answered some of those questions. Warning- long post incoming. I wrote this just before bed hence the brevity, I’ll try expanding on some of the answers when I have time!
Do you have any preconceptions about how SimLit is supposed to be? Or did you used to have some, but you've grown past them as you've read and written more Sims stories? If you did have any preconceptions, how did they affect your writing and reading?
I used to think SimLit was honestly 90% flimsy, trashy dramas with unlikable characters, but this forum swiftly changed my mind on narrative-based SimLit!
Are there any stories in particular that made you realize that Sims stories could be more than what you thought they could be?
An offsite friend I met on another forum had a great story with lovable characters. I'm not linking it here since they are planning a reboot and I don't want to link the old version for that reason. One of my favourite stories on this site is @_sims_Yimi 's Tales of Camelot. It was one of the first I started reading here and the screenshots, dedication, characters and writing are all fantastic. It's easily one of the best SimLits I've read so far.
How does the game influence your work?
Some of my SimLit is inspired by the challenge I'm playing as I'm writing it. Others have bits inspired by the RNG of the game, like Sentiments, Emotions etc.
What kind of relationship (or whatever you want to call it) is there between the text and pictures in your Sims stories? And yes, you can answer this even if there is no text or no pics in your story as well. That's a relationship too.
I am limited due to not being able to use CC or mods, but that's hardly a limit- what good is pretty pictures if the writing is garbage? The screenshots are enough of an idea to know what's going on, but all the important stuff is told through the writing.
"Can any of you relate to this - starting out without clear direction and ending up with a much deeper story than you intended when you're writing your Sims stories?
My story Untamed was just an Arcane Academy Challenge when I started writing it, then it spawned a whole trilogy XD
What is good chapter length to keep readers reading?
Depends entirely on the reader.
What do you think about re-writing?
Don't get into a reboot loop, whatever you do. If it's just a small thing like a way something is written, or one dodgy line, re-write it, but don't re-write a whole story or plotline just because you got criticism or the perfectionist got the better of you. Finish your work- you'll have something to compare your new work to later and you'll see how you've improved.
Have there been certain types of legacy challenges that turned out well for you and/or you're still using them? What does and doesn't work for you?
I honestly got bored of reading legacy challenges, I only read narrative-based stuff now. That said, a legacy I read years ago was what got me into reading SimLit because every single gen had an interesting story.
Out of curiosity, do you use a lot of mods, poses, and/or cc in your stories (i.e. a combination, only 1, or none)? How do they affect your stories and your gameplay? Is it important to your storytelling, or could you tell your stories without them? Why do you use it?
I don't use CC or mods because I'm a console player but it's not a drawback to me at all. The screenshots are a compliment to the story, not the other way around. It's just nice to have them there as a sort of idea of what's going on.
Are your Sims Stories read by people you know offline? How do you feel about it?
No-one offline has time to read my writing.
Does other people's work ever make you feel insecure about yours? If so, how do you handle that feeling?
Sometimes. I take a break from my work and I come back later. The constant-comparing-of-yourself-to-someone-else is toxic and creators need to break themselves away from that as much as possible. There's already one of that person- so be yourself. Take inspiration, but don't emulate others too much. Being unique and yourself is more important than being someone else.
How do you keep all the characters straight?
Not sure what this question means really, but I'll give my joke answer and say hardly any of my characters are straight XD
How do you develop your (side) characters? Do you write backstory that you don't include in your main story?
Sometimes I do. As for side characters, most of them have a personality trait or two that comes through- something that at least give them a little character.
do you avoid multiple perspectives and stick to single POV?
I go for multiple POVs because it's more interesting to see varying lives, experiences and outlooks on the situation. Depends on the story you want to tell, though. Single POV is fun when you have an unreliable narrator, or not many main characters.
Do you write with large ensembles of characters?
Normally, no, but my current story has left me with a pretty hefty cast.
How often do you post? How much is too much? What is your personal preference for reading new SimLit posts?
If someone writes too frequently, I check their blog monthly. For me, I aim to post once a week. Due to life and game glitches that has slowed down.
Do you ever struggle with how to feel about POSITIVE feedback/praise?
No, I take the praise and I am glad to know I am doing something right.
If you have several stories in the works, do you post them in separate blogs or the same blog? Why?
The same blog. People have politely complained about my blog/stories being inconvenient for various reasons so they are all on the same blog for clarity's sake.
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators, or Trusted Advisors? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
I don't expect to have any relationship with my readers. I appreciate people who read, I especially appreciate people who comment. Some stay, some go, that's just how it is. I am thankful for everyone who reads my stuff, and especially for my regular reader/s. I am not there to wholly supply a reader's needs- I am the writer, it's my story ultimately. I will listen to criticism, I have made changes due to constructive crit before, but the final say is mine on what changes and what doesn't. If people are going to be irritating on wanting me to write around them, then my writing is not for them.
What is your planning process for your story?
Rough plot, characters, flesh out characters, write down plot ideas, string them together into a plot of sorts, do screenshots, write chapter, post.
Discuss your thoughts/philosophies on writing unlikable characters. Especially unlikable/highly flawed protagonists.
Honestly, I don't know. Some people are just garbage because they want to be and there's no real reason as to why they are garbage, same as real life. That's not a bad thing for a certain character or two to be like. Some unlikable characters you can identify or sympathise with, others are just irritating and I feel like I'm being forced to sympathise with someone who has committed many heinous acts because of this that or the other. This is a big issue for me in SimLit with male characters in romances especially- I'm sick of romanticised abuse in fiction, and double sick when the author implies that I'm expected to feel sympathy for an abuser. No thanks!
How did you start writing? How did your writing develop?
I started writing 'more seriously' when I was 13 after reading the entire Harry Potter series on an Easter holiday. I don't like HP anymore, haven't done since I was 16. Took a long break from writing, started writing SimLit in 2019.
Do you guys think there is any difference at all in quality between a beginner and a master, and do you think there is any point in trying to improve? Or could I get an art gallery to take a piece of paper I scribbled on when I was two because hey, there's no qualitative difference between that and a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh?
Creators often have a stick up their backsides about quality and think they can dictate what's good and what isn't- no-one else will tell you this but those people need to realise that all creative work is entirely SUBJECTIVE. One man's trash is another man's treasure, a child's first story is no different than one of the great's amazingly-long epic tale. There's an audience for everything.
How do you people see your own text when you read it? How is the experience different compared to reading someone else's work?
I read it back in my head in the character's 'voice', like a movie. If it sounds cringe, I edit it.
How does the Get together expand the horizons of storytelling and change the way SimLit works for you?
Clubs can be handy for screenshots.
Do you have a place or a situation where you plan or get ideas for your stories the best?
Not really, inspiration can strike at any time.
Have you ever felt 'weird' or 'wrong' when writing your story, but you weren't sure whether the chapter was out of place or if you felt that way because you were out of your comfort zone?
Yes, I have felt like 'should I be writing this?' but I did research to make sure I was writing things respectfully and accurately. I have had issues come up in my story I have never dealt with so I research them and people's real life experiences with those issues. Sometimes you will have to break out of the comfort zone.
For those of you who have had "woohoo" moments come up, any advice?
Not something I can answer in-detail on this forum, but do your research- read what works and what doesn't for people. Read it back to yourself- if you want it to be intimate and it makes you laugh or cringe instead, rewrite it. If it is not something you have experienced, read about the thoughts and experiences of people who have. Focus on what kind of story you want and how you want the readers to feel, then you know how much detail you ought to go into. For me, it's not about what you can see, it's not about how attractive the situation or characters is, it's not about...you know what. It's about the raw, passionate emotions, it's about seeing the character's true self come through in a primal moment, not putting on a mask, not hiding anything. It's a powerful tool for showing characters' feelings and personalities as well as just...you know.
is it worth including this [adult] kind of content and risk scaring readers away or should I not worry about it... or should I even be putting stuff out there that younger readers shouldn't really be reading?
Content warnings should be used. It's really not my fault if someone does not read the content warnings.
I have, but in reality, there are no rules to storytelling, there are no rules to creativity.
for your SimLit blogs, do you have your latest posts on your homepage or a specific homepage? Right now I have a specific homepage, but I'm wondering about the benefits of having readers click right to your latest posts, or the downsides of this. Thoughts?
I have a link to the latest chapter of the latest story right at the top of the blog.
Do you ever want to switch things up a bit and try something new? Play another character in town? How do you keep things interesting?
Sometimes. Some of my stories have 'Interlude' chapters specifically for this.
what's your favorite season in The Sims and why? Does the season affect your storytelling and how?
Winter. It means more long-shot screenshot spam. XD
How do you prepare your chapters? Do your rough drafts look already extensive and detailed, or are they mere jot notes? Do you even prepare anything in advance, or do you just jump right in and write/take pictures according to what's fresh in your imagination?
Sometimes the whole plot of a chapter is fresh in my mind- sometimes not. My chapter plans are rough ideas of what happens in that chapter and that's it. Sometimes I'm more 'seat of my pants' with chapters than others.
When you're reading a story what kind of "hook" is effective. Will an exciting scene draw you in and make you want to know about the story and characters, or do you prefer a chance to know the character before you'll care about the "drama".
Depends on the story, either way works.
In regards to monsters, are you more willing to take the word of the characters that these things are terrible and terrifying (even if you don't see them hurt anybody) or do you need to see it with your own eyes before you'll believe it?
The word of the characters can work, but you can't always rely on them to tell the truth! One story I'm reading has many people tell a story of a spellcaster who is trying to be raised from the dead, a terribly powerful Untamed spellcaster. It works well.
How important is it to you that you understand what's going on? Are you able to go along with a story where sometimes you get jargon thrown at you that isn't explained right away?
If I'm enjoying the characters and writing enough, I don't care what's going on. I struggle to follow plots anyway, just give me good writing and interesting characters! As for jargon, there's such a thing as too much for me. If you're writing a story with a lot of unexplained words, either to look 'smart' or in the expectation that your readers will have the same knowledge as you on a niche subject, just...not for me.
How often do you publish posts? How much is too much?
Weekly. Daily posts are hard to follow for me. Daily posts, I handle at the end of the week.
I let songs guide my stories. Anyone else does that? I'd like to hear what yours were
Depends on the story, depends on the character.
Have you written about the diversity/inclusion/racial tension issue in your Sims stories and how have you addressed it? If you haven't, is this something you would consider talking about in a story and if so, how? If not, that's okay, but have you read other stories that address the topics and how do you think other authors have handled the hot button issues?
I read about people's everyday real-life experiences of racism, and events in history, before I wrote a story in which aliens are treated in a prejudiced manner for the most part. There's a lot you can learn from researching real life, and fantasy/sci-fi is a good way of showing allegory to real-life social issues. I don't know what racism is like, I have privilege. People will think they know what it's like when they haven't experienced it, but in reality you'll have no idea unless you've experienced it- so do your research, look at the writings and experiences of people who have experienced the prejudice you are dealing with before you start writing about it. It won't be about you, and it won't always be comfortable, but your comfort isn't the point when you're reading about the atrocities other people have experienced. The point is to try and get things as close as possible. You won't get it right all the time, but that's fine, there's always something new to learn.
I can’t speak for how others handle racism due to privilege, but as for how authors handle prejudice against my community…it’s not something I’ve see handled well by anyone who isn’t in the community unfortunately. It’s usually something thrown in for drama, but the character usually still stays right in the background and it’s never much of a focus. Then again I’d much rather read a story where the LGBT+ characters’ story is something outside of a coming out drama plot anyway.
Unintentionally, my own LGBT+ experiences have coloured my work, especially my Magic Universe works. One or two readers have picked up on this. It was unintentional at first but sometimes I roll with the allegory. If anyone is ever upset about the inclusion,diversity, or portrayal of anything in my work then they are free to raise concerns with me.
Do you guys run with all your story ideas, or do you sit on some of them?
I sit on some of them. I roll with most of them.
Do you guys ever feel like this with your work? Like just lost and not sure if it has any point or is any good or if it's worth anything at all?
Sometimes. I take a break and come back to it later if I ever feel down about my work.
Do you outline way far out ahead, just a chapter at a time, or never outline and just play? If you do outline in advance, do you play gameshots out of order of the actual story you're writing?
I write all of my initial unorganised ideas in one place, all my organised chapter ideas in another. I have some things planned out way in advance but not always.
Do you think you're decent at writing? If so, when did you realize that? If not, when will you know?
I have not always been good at writing, but I've always seen myself as a decent writer. I finally have an original writing style (After two years of trying to be Chuck Palahniuk when I was a teenager XD), I have fleshed out characters with varying experiences and personalities. I'm not the best, my plots need a lot of work- but I don't need to be the best. I go at my own pace. As long as I like my stuff, then it's all good.
For those of you who do share your stories with people you know personally (family and friends), how did you start? Do you typically get positive feedback? If not, how do you handle constructive criticism? Any advice? For those of you who have done world-building for their stories what's it like to work within the limits of the game?
The story covers the limits of what I can deal with in the game. I also edit screenshots using an art processor sometimes. My family/friends outside of Simmers don't read my stuff.
As for criticism, it doesn't bother me anymore. I've been a creator for years, I've dealt with helpful polite people, and I've dealt with wannabe caustic critics whose entire personality is cringey vitriol, who want to make up for their own insecurities online by being popular on the internet for having no emotional control.
Some people cannot deal even with polite criticism, and I've dealt with people like this who have let my constructive criticism live rent-free in their heads. Those people have no inner or outer critic and their writing remains stagnant as a result, IMO. Don't waste your energy on these people. If criticism upsets you, walk away from the computer, take the time to calm down, then come back. If someone's criticism is useful, use it. If it's useless, don't.
Do not get over-defensive about your work, either- all art is subjective, and it won't be for everyone. Listen to criticism, but don't act like your work is untouchable either- especially if you yourself deal out blunt criticism 24/7.
Something I really struggle with is writing descriptively. I feel like I'm a strong writer in terms of character building, back story, and dialogue, but my descriptive "in-between" writing is so-so in my opinion. I struggle with trying to figure out the difference between writing meaningful description that contributes to the plot and flow and info-dumping or just writing "filler fluff." Sometimes I feel like a Sims screenshot can explain away anything I can't in my writing, but I feel like this is almost a cop-out sometimes. Someone once told me that I should pay attention the five senses and I've been trying that out in my main story. Any suggestions? How do you write descriptively in SimLit? Do you let screenshots do the talking or a mixture of screenshots and prose?
The level of description depends on the character. Some people are more flowery and descriptive than others are. It depends on the character and how they see the world. I would say, do not let screenshots take complete charge of the whole story. I think you can have a good written story with poor screenshots, but pretty pictures won't keep me reading a story if I don't like it.
how do you write something fresh, if that's your thing? Or are you totally cool with reading stories that are similar to each other and that's your thing? I know that I find inspiration in the limits of the game, and I could see someone else finding inspiration in the limits of a genre.
The game limits will mean some stories are slightly same-y in ways. No such thing as truly fresh, everything is inspired by something. Originality is overrated, people are looking for something that doesn't exist in art- we are all inspired by things and everything is stolen from somewhere whether intentional or not. That said though, sometimes folks who try too hard to completely emulate other writers, it's a bit of a turn off for reading.
What experiences did you have as a writer in being friends with other writers? And with non-writer friends who read and like or not like, or even refuse to read your stories?
It's good to have other writer friends for feedback and for a listening ear.
How do you all deal with in-game "derailings" and curve balls? Do you let them dictate the plot, influence your plot, or do you ignore and proceed with your story?
Most curveballs get thrown right in! My Aliens Universe stories are full of them! I usually just throw them into the story.
do you all find that your reading perspective is different from when you write?
My reading perspective is more critical. I write the chapter first, and change small bits later because I read it back and think 'nah'.
The idea behind the “four doors” theory by Nancy Pearl is that there are four main things that people look for in what they read, and different people have different priorities.
Language
Character
Story
Setting
So what order would you put your doors in as a writer, and in which order as a reader? What do these doors mean to you?
Character- most important. No good plot can be saved by flat, boring characters.
Language- again, no good plot can be saved by a writing style that doesn't interest me.
Story
Setting- where it's set isn't all that important. A good story can exist in any setting, and over-world-building isn't always helpful.
While it's not exactly a question about the art of Sims storytelling, I do have a vaguely writing-related head-scratcher (or, rather, a series of them) to pose to you: Is it important for you to know the gender of an author if their pen-name is ambiguous? Or, do you ever find yourself curious about an author's gender in that same situation... to the point of outright asking them? And is asking them that question an 'acceptable' thing to do, or does it overstep the bounds of the author/reader relationship?
I am not bothered much by the gender of an author, nor would I ask them.
how much do you think about where to put your pictures (before/ after the text they belong to) or do they just seem to fit where you put them? Does it correspond with whether you first write or first screenshot?
I do screenshots first, text after. I make notes sometimes, so I don't forget the story context of a screenshot I've taken.
Do you challenge stereotypes and assumptions in your Sim-lit? If so, how? To clarify, do you challenge the stereotypes of the Sims world and/or characteristics of Sims or typical SimLit writing styles? On the flip side, do you think there's a time and place for stereotypes, and if so, when and where? Does your idea of stereotypes or challenging stereotypes change when you're a reader vs. a writer?
People that aren't part of the group they're stereotyping will defend stereotypes to the death! Yes, some people ARE like the real life stereotypes but they're tiresome and boring from a literary perspective and they don't show the true breadth of the experience of people in a group. I have seen some weird LGBT+ stereotypes out there written by straight or cis SimLit authors, and I don't get why it's so hard to do research before you write a character. See what things people from that group love and hate about the way they are portrayed. Reader or writer, it doesn't change anything.
I do challenge stereotypes of SimLit- the main one I do by intention is the way abuse is dealt with in my work. People DO NOT stand to put up with abusive people, abusive people are put in their place every time. I do not make my readers feel bad for the abusers, not at all. I do not like the way some SimLit writers deal with the subject at all, and I aim to challenge that, both for better writing and for the safety of my readers. People hyperfixate on fiction, some people get a lot of life lessons from what they read. If my readers identify with a character's awful experience or situation, I want to assure them that no, this is bad, you do not deserve to be treated this way. Whilst this isn't really challenging a stereotype. I've also challenged things like toxic masculinity as well, and how it affect people's lives, and also how men's mental health is important. If a male readers reads my stuff, I want him to know that he is allowed to have struggles and bad days, and that it can get better from there. Most chapters that deal with heavy themes, I link real life support websites and hotlines at the end.
what makes a GOOD writer?
Good is entirely subjective and almost meaningless, really. What's good for some is bad for others. I like a writer who:
- has interesting characters
- Does their research and is respectful about portrayals
- Shows terrible behaviour as being terrible, and not excusing absolutely heinous acts or pushing me to sympathise with a monster
- Does not think their writing is better than everyone else's
- When they have time, it's nice if they take time to respond to readers' replies and comments
The interesting things about stereotypes is that, a poorly executed stereotype can often be received better than a well-written break from tradition. Because of that it can be hard for people to branch out, but it's healthy to try, even if just to test yourself. Maybe we could look at writing a short-story from two points of view, one which plays on a particular stereotype, and the other which challenges that same stereotype?
People need to stop relying on stereotypes for a variety of reasons, and IMO, people need to ditch their assumptions if they're to become better writers.
when/how is writing hard for you, and what does it mean for it to be hard and how do you handle it?
I don't know much about a topic. I do research, then I come back to it.
I don't know how to progress. I take a break, I jot some ideas if I get them, then come back to it later on.
I sometimes ask a friend what they think, if it's not too spoiler-y to ask them.
How do you all write comedy in your SimLit? Does it come easily and naturally or do you struggle also?
It comes easily and naturally because I think I'm funnier than I actually am. XD A lot of my SimLit is intended to be mostly humorous in different ways.
When you're stuck in a corner with your SimLit writing, how do you find a way out?
A break is the best way to find a way out. Don't force yourself to write when you don't have it in your heart to do so.
I love that this thread is back! How cool to see it revived. I may have time to pop in here on occasion, but just wanted to say hi to all the new folks, former folks, and everyone in between.
I like that this thread is alive again too. @SnowBnuuy Thanks for posting your answers. I haven't read all of them yet, but your approach to Simlit is really interesting. I didn't know you were a console player - so many people use mods and poses with Simlit so it's nice to see a different approach.
@SnowBnuuy You answered all of them! Ok... well, all that were in the first half of the thread, but still. Wow!
I think I'll answer them all eventually too, but probably give longer answers - and I feel like such a long list isn't that great to start discussion...?
If you open the spoilers, in the end I've always said a bit in response to your answer. Didn't feel like tagging you 500times, but you know... it's there Edit: I answered the first bunch and then had to go annoying RL stuff, and besides, I was ready for a break
Second Edit: To everyone from the "One Month One World One Year"-Thread who got tagged and is confused where - I'm sorry to do such a mass-tag thing In the question about inspirational Sims Stories, I just had to mention y'all and didn't think to do it without the @.
Do you have any preconceptions about how SimLit is supposed to be? Or did you used to have some, but you've grown past them as you've read and written more Sims stories?
I only discovered Sims stories last summer. I think I was lucky in that I found both a “story” SimLit and a “commentary” SimLit, as previously I had thought there was only commentary. And then, I found even more stories that made me realize how different SimLit could actually be, and I started to “find my own voice” about it. --That's quite a preconception! Do you know why you thought that? But I'm glad you changed your mind.
If you did have any preconceptions, how did they affect your writing and reading?
Not really preconceptions. But… I found these 2,3 really good stories, and I was like “I wanna do that too!” But not just that “write good SimLit”, but somehow my brain assumed exactly how “they did it” was how I should do it too, so… I ended up planning and writing a couple of knock-offs paired with a fair bit of Mary Sue-nes. Thank god I never put them online, that'd have been embarrassing
Only later as I accumulated more “good stories” and, more importantly, saw them continually adjust their writing style to find what worked for them, including a bit of Sim-Creator-Banter, then just doing commentary for a bit, or wordless posts… that was when I started to find “my own voice”. Even if there are still many similarities
Are there any stories in particular that made you realize that Sims stories could be more than what you thought they could be?
Oof. I'm sure there was a "how did you start writing"-question later on, but otherwise this one isnt gonna make sense. Ever since I was little, I was making up stories. Mostly before bed when I couldn't sleep. I'd envision all the characters, and then "make" them act out the story. But for one - I never got far enough to even really have more than three characters without forgetting one and having to restart, and two - it was kind of frustrating to never get farther than chapter one because I always fell asleep and then had start new the next day...
I've always been hooked on Sims, but was never allowed to buy it until High School graduation. (Okay...by that point I figured I was old enough to not ask when spending 10bucks of my own money on a video game. I'm probably still not allowed to.) I watched Sims Let's Plays, and they took these characters and made stories out of it - but like me as a kid, like "and now she does that but Sims is Sims so we have to imagine it..." Aside from me not wanting to start a YouTube channel just for stories, and not having the game, this was still not what I wanted. I wanted to *make* the story real, not tell everyone what happened in the story and tell them to imagine it. And that's how I came to actual SimLit. Stories paired with screenshots and the game...but real stories.
So to come back to the question, I still try to find "my style". I once read about Sims in some stories being characters, just the people the story is about, and in others they are actors and tell a specific story. For me the story is definitely about their lives. What happens in my play-sessions is the story - in raw form. Some things may be missing, others I choose to ignore - but the story lies in the game and in the Sims. Through writing, I polish it. It's always a struggle. The story being in the game, with sentiments and emotions and attractiveness (mods!) and just the expressiveness of the characters. But at the same time, I want to push the limits of the game, include stuff that's not possible in game (or just that I don't have, like one Sim wanting to be a DJ...) As I only have Seasons, Parenthood and Laundry Day, it's difficult for me to distinguish Sims' characters and give them all unique hobbies and personalities with the vanilla game only. --I felt like you said that very well, about the game's structure inspiring your story. Very cool too how you said the challenge you play provides a framework and ideas! I love that about challenges (even though I ripped the insides of mine out, but well, the thought is still there )
What kind of relationship (or whatever you want to call it) is there between the text and pictures in your Sims stories? And yes, you can answer this even if there is no text or no pics in your story as well. That's a relationship too.
Hm. In principle, the pictures are like the backbone of the story. They show what's happened in the game, where the raw story happens. The Text helps me to polish, interpret and flesh them out so the stuff I only imagined while playing will be in the story for everyone too - Like someone calling someone so they don't suddenly appear. Or a conversation. --so for you the story is in the writing, and the screenshots are just illustration? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the "Sims as actors or characters" subject then, as it's so different from how I write...
Can any of you relate to this - starting out without clear direction and ending up with a much deeper story than you intended when you're writing your Sims stories?
Um... not really right now. A bit. I only have one real Sims story, and it's still quite new, so there hasn't been that much room for such development yet. Additionally, I started with the intention of writing a story with fleshed out characters, problems, real-world issues and all that already...
The latter especially has started to creep in more and more. I don't feel comfortable writing about things I don't know much about, like what it means to be really poor. Or bullied. Or part of the LGBTQ community. etc etc. Especially since they are super important to me, I want to do them justice, and if I can't feel like I can I'd rather completely leave them out. But slowly I've started to touch on those issues and it's an exciting journey! --lol, that's quite a difference! But so cool how your story developed into a whole trilogy
What is good chapter length to keep readers reading?
Honestly? When I read this I was like "what the heck do the readers have to do with it?" My chapter length depends on my writing style and how I feel it "works". Sometimes I feel like too much has happened in that chapter already, so then I split it up into 2. At first I had posts of 300 words, now I usually get 1500 and up to 2100. But like I said, that depends on me and what I feel works for my story and for my writing style. But I guess this consideration of "is it too much for one update" kind of thinks about the readers in itself. So let me phrase it that way: My current chapter had one double birthday full of conflicting emotions and drama, a birthday party, a grand meal, a New Year's eve party, a holiday ceremony with even more drama, and lots of wish-making and character development... Yeah. Way too much. (In retrospect I shouldn't even have said it to be all on one SimDay and rescheduled the birthdays, but oh well). That is something I splitted up, but not because "oh no, more than 1500 words already". --I had to laugh at that answer. I guess so! So do you think about the readers at all when considering to split up a post, or to lengthen/shorten it? Or do you go "eh, everyone's different anyway?"
What do you think about rewriting?
So... about that one... Let me say it this way: My writing style has changed much in the few updates my story already has. Like, I notice big, big differences. I'm currently working to put it on a blog and out of its shared forum thread, and for that occasion, I was really tempted to work out some of the problems it has. Things, storywise, I want to have done differently. The fact that only two of my kids had one very special birthday tradition because the idea came along too late. Inconsistencies. And most of all the style. In between I had a one-paragraph-post, then I had chapter headings, then I hadn't, then I had...
I think at least the format I will try to straighten up. Every Chapter a heading... For the actual story, I think I’ll have to leave it. It won’t be easy, but you know, red-cons 15 years later ingame? This is how the story happened, and I feel like I shouldn’t try to change it. Still. I would like it better if the beginning wasn’t so *bad*...
I hope this thread gets active again 'cause this one is one I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on!!! --Thank you for your words on "rebooting". I guess you're right. Still, it stinks to see the beginning of this story like that, as I want it to be as awesome as I can make it. Oh well, done's done... right?
And on the question about "keeping characters straight" - I believe it intentionally had double meaning, but I think what the asking person really meant was "if you have a large cast of characters how are you able to distinguish them from each other?"
@haneul Thank you ;-; Yeah it’s not too much of an issue really I just work around it. I know if I had access to CC, I would never get any writing done! I need to flesh some answers out when I have time.
@SnowBnuuy I was going to comment on that later, but - I couldn't imagine. Then again I only have 3 packs so far, so my choice of activities, hairs, clothes etc is... limited. Mods and CC help me flesh out the game and make it fun without owning all the packs and having lifestyles, and sledding, and beaches, and DJs, and just *everything*. I swear half my toddlers would look exactly the same without CC! Luckily my hard drive is almost full, so I can still get writing done...!
@miss_eulenauge On my TS3 I spent more time CC hunting than I did playing : p Sometimes mods would be handy though especially with the amount of bugs and glitches I’ve had as of very recently.
Ohh okay I get it now : p I’ll write up a serious answer later! I’ll read yours later. Yeah some answers are short because I wrote it just before bed and had to rush, so I plan to expand on some of them later on!
@miss-eulenauge A few responses, to your responses, that I have time for on my work break:
. My introduction to SimLit I remember wasn’t actually TS4 like I said, it was TS2 stories. It was a long time ago but I forgot the story. I remember the first time I read it, I thought it was amazing but the second time I read it a lot of stuff wasn’t handled well and it wasn’t as good as I remembered. I remember there being a lot of very thin drama type stories for TS4 roughly after it came out, which I had little interest in and it was someone’s narrative legacy which got me into writing SimLit, I loved how every gen was different and had their own story. Then I learned not to be narrow minded about SimLit!
. Commentaries with Sim/Creator banter are brilliant. I don’t really read commentary stories anymore but I’ve read some before that have been hilarious, especially the fourth wall breaks between the sim and the author. I think both commentary and narrative stories can both be great.
. I have a few favourite stories, most of which are currently on break but a handful of my favourite authors at the moment are _sims_yimi, @SnuffyBucket and @FeroshaCoutura for various reasons.
. All of my work used to be based on the challenge I was playing at the time but in May I wrote my first narrative only SimLit, The Sun and her Fire, which so far is my post popular one out of all the stories with readers. It’s a prequel. Morgyn Ember was only a side character in Untamed but I realised I had a lot of set up and wrote a story on their journey to becoming Sage and such. One of my readers said she preferred my narrative SimLit since it’s not restricted by the challenge aspect and I agree.
. I think sims as characters and sims as actors probably depends on how much you let gameplay drive the story. Most of my work is gameplay driven in some sense, so I do see them moreso as characters than actors. Their own actions in game partially shape how they turn out in story.
. Whether or not I split up a post depends on how long it is, my chapters aren’t really that long so it’s rare I split up a chapter into multiple parts. Most of my stories are pretty short overall.
. It’s no worry ^u^ It’s up to the individual whether or not a reboot is the right thing to do. Sometimes it definitely is worth it, other times it’s better to just finish the story and then know what to change in future writing.
What do you think about rewriting?
Spoiler
So... about that one... Let me say it this way: My writing style has changed much in the few updates my story already has. Like, I notice big, big differences. I'm currently working to put it on a blog and out of its shared forum thread, and for that occasion, I was really tempted to work out some of the problems it has. Things, storywise, I want to have done differently. The fact that only two of my kids had one very special birthday tradition because the idea came along too late. Inconsistencies. And most of all the style. In between I had a one-paragraph-post, then I had chapter headings, then I hadn't, then I had...
I think at least the format I will try to straighten up. Every Chapter a heading... For the actual story, I think I’ll have to leave it. It won’t be easy, but you know, red-cons 15 years later ingame? This is how the story happened, and I feel like I shouldn’t try to change it. Still. I would like it better if the beginning wasn’t so *bad*...
It’s no worry ^u^ It’s up to the individual whether or not a reboot is the right thing to do. Sometimes it definitely is worth it, other times it’s better to just finish the story and then know what to change in future writing.
I went re-reading after I wrote that, and realized that what bothers me most is the changes in point of view, writing style and in narrative. Originally I set up as Diary, then had an E-Mail in between, some posts are more "external narrator" than diary. It's just not consistent. As a writer I like that because that means that I wasn't (and am not) afraid to experiment with what style works best for me and for my story, instead of sticking with something I don't like and eventually losing interest. But at the same time, if you don't just see the improvement in writing skills but the story as a whole, it does look... jarring. But re-writing all of that would be monumental, and probably stop all new chapters, and eh. I think I can't. Still. I want to write a good story, and I feel like because of all these changes (and even more changes as I continue to search for the way writing works for me) it's not going too well as a whole.
@SnowBnuuy Thank you so much for the shout-out 🙈 Ooooh, I didn’t even know this thread was a thing! I’ll bite 😄 I have a clingy cat lying on my arms so we’ll see how far I can get. I’ll be leaving some questions out, but here goes:
How does the game influence your work?
It enhances it in one area and hampers it in another. The visual aspects of screenshots is great to show what you can’t tell, but the game also has an absolute limit in what is possible for me to do. I really have to watch myself to make sure that I don’t write something I can’t take pictures for.
What kind of relationship (or whatever you want to call it) is there between the text and pictures in your Sims stories? And yes, you can answer this even if there is no text or no pics in your story as well. That's a relationship too.
I use the pictures to enhance my storytelling, and rely on visuals to show what I don’t write in narration. They’re very important to my stories. I do have some wordless chapters in store, but in general, the text is not enough without the pictures and vice versa.
Out of curiosity, do you use a lot of mods, poses, and/or cc in your stories (i.e. a combination, only 1, or none)? How do they affect your stories and your gameplay? Is it important to your storytelling, or could you tell your stories without them? Why do you use it?
My game is absolutely riddled with CC. The story couldn’t exist without it, because there is no Medieval pack for TS4. 😅
Are your Sims Stories read by people you know offline? How do you feel about it?
They are not. I’ve shared it with family and friends a couple of times, but reading simlit is just not their cup of tea. I’m all right with that. To each their preference. 😊
Does other people's work ever make you feel insecure about yours? If so, how do you handle that feeling?
All the time. Part of being a writer is constantly thinking about how you could improve, and the easiest way to see where you are lacking is to see how other people write. But it’s also very easy to get lost in comparing yourself to others and feeling inferior as a result. In my case, I try to remember that you get better with every word that you put on paper (or in a word document 😂) and that it’s as much about the journey as the destination. Nobody is born a master writer. Some people are naturally talented, and some people are not. But we all get better with practice
How do you keep all the characters straight? (Intended meaning: How do you manage large casts of characters? But I’m sure the other interpretation is fun to answer as well )
This question 🤣 I’ll answer the intended meaning, haha. I have main characters, support characters and background. Background doesn’t matter, but I make sure that there’s at least two character traits in every main or support character that are different. If they overlap too much, one of them has to change. It doesn’t always work perfectly, but I haven’t run into the problem yet of accidental carbon copy characters.
Also, some ToC characters are not as straight as you think they are. 😏
Do you avoid multiple perspectives and stick to single POV? Do you write with large ensembles of characters?
Single POV does not work with my story. Generally I have 4 different perspectives, with more coming in if the supporting characters become more important to the plot arc. My cast currently has lemme count… at least 15 characters that are important to the plot. This wasn’t done all at once though – all of them were introduced gradually, so people could get to know them one by one.
How often do you post? How much is too much? What is your personal preference for reading new SimLit posts?
Once a week, if I can manage. Taking screenshots, editing and writing the text takes a long time for me. 1 a week is the maximum that I can manage. 😅 I like weekly posts as a reader, too. Twice a week feels like much, and daily I simply can’t keep up with.
Do you ever struggle with how to feel about POSITIVE feedback/praise?
Yes. I’m used to negativity or indifference, and on some days, my head is dead-set on disregarding praise and thinking it’s just people being polite. On the other hand, negative feedback stays in my head for weeks. It’s a work-in-progress. 😆
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators, or Trusted Advisors? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
I love hearing from readers. I’m not good with direct praise, but seeing someone really get into the story and start speculating on what will happen next, or trying to guess at secrets makes my entire day. I don’t think a reader should be able to dictate what you need to write, though. They can come with advice, but the writer is not obligated to use it. The worst thing in my opinion that could happen is that a writer changes their story so much at other people’s whims that it no longer feels as their story.
Plus, most people (and I mean this in the best way) are not professional critics. The people who know how to give valuable criticism and feedback generally give it only when needed. This question reminds me of a quote I read somewhere – the average person is great at telling you if they like something, less good at explaining why, and terrible at predicting what they would like in the future.
How did you start writing? How did your writing develop?
I’ve been writing since I was very young. Storytelling came naturally to me, although I was very, very bad at it in the beginning. My stories matured with me and gradually got better as I practiced.
Do you guys think there is any difference at all in quality between a beginner and a master, and do you think there is any point in trying to improve? Or could I get an art gallery to take a piece of paper I scribbled on when I was two because hey, there's no qualitative difference between that and a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh?
People seem to forget that Rembrandt and Van Gogh did not start out with the skills that they had by the end. You can be incredibly talented or complete potatoes at something. An argument could be made for the talented one to have an advantage – but if you don’t try, and practice, and fail, and see what works, you’ll never get better. The beginner should never be discouraged to try just because they are not good at something yet. That is how you destroy a future artist.
How important is it to you that you understand what's going on? Are you able to go along with a story where sometimes you get jargon thrown at you that isn't explained right away?
I like stories that don’t hand me the answers on a silver platter. Plotlines with secrets, that give hints and gradually unfold what’s really going on are fantastic. I enjoy analysing story points and characters both. I don’t like finding jargon that I don’t understand, though. If it’s words that are beyond my vocabulary (am not a native speaker) then I can look it up. But if it’s concepts, lore, world history, worldbuilding details or past events that aren’t explained (and aren't presented as a secret to uncover), then I generally lose interest.
Cat on hands. Arms tingly. Will continue later. 🤭
Hosting D&D sessions on the side. Interested in playing through some fantasy-themed shenanigans? Send me a message 😘
@_sims_Yimi Thank you for coming here! Btw that story looks awesome. Does it have graphic violence or dark themes? Just so I don't start reading and have to stop when it's super suspenseful
To everyone: I feel a bit weird now, since I just came here and said "I wish people were here", I didn't make this! In the same way, since everyone starts to answer the long list of questions I collected, I feel the need to say - the original thought of this thread was that someone would ask a question about SimLit writing and then everyone would share their thoughts, and then there was the next. I discovered this and found that I wanted to answer all the asked questions (or at least really many) for myself to find out more about my SimLit writing, so I thought "well I guess I can just copy-paste them into Google Doc as I read through... Then people started answering to my post and I shared that "list". But you aren't required to go through and think about all these questions at all. You could bring a new one or whatever
The game enhances my writing in one area and hampers it in another. The visual aspects of screenshots is great to show what you can’t tell, but the game also has an absolute limit in what is possible for me to do. I really have to watch myself to make sure that I don’t write something I can’t take pictures for.
Yes! For example I have always wanted to make a surfer sim, or a rider, a cheerleader, a traveller... and (with my packs at least) that would just be shooting my own knee. (Hope people can understand that as I'm not a native speaker either.)
I use the pictures to enhance my storytelling, and rely on visuals to show what I don’t write in narration. They’re very important to my stories. I do have some wordless chapters in store, but in general, the text is not enough without the pictures and vice versa.
You worded that really well! Thank you for expressing what I thought too
Does other people's work ever make you feel insecure about yours? If so, how do you handle that feeling?
All the time. Part of being a writer is constantly thinking about how you could improve, and the easiest way to see where you are lacking is to see how other people write. But it’s also very easy to get lost in comparing yourself to others and feeling inferior as a result. In my case, I try to remember that you get better with every word that you put on paper (or in a word document 😂) and that it’s as much about the journey as the destination. Nobody is born a master writer. Some people are naturally talented, and some people are not. But we all get better with practice
That's a great thought that I'll try to remember! Thank you. It helped me to hear that.
How do you keep all the characters straight? (Intended meaning: How do you manage large casts of characters? But I’m sure the other interpretation is fun to answer as well )
This question 🤣 I’ll answer the intended meaning, haha. I have main characters, support characters and background. Background doesn’t matter, but I make sure that there’s at least two character traits in every main or support character that are different. If they overlap too much, one of them has to change. It doesn’t always work perfectly, but I haven’t run into the problem yet of accidental carbon copy characters.
Do you avoid multiple perspectives and stick to single POV? Do you write with large ensembles of characters?
Single POV does not work with my story. Generally I have 4 different perspectives, with more coming in if the supporting characters become more important to the plot arc. My cast currently has lemme count… at least 15 characters that are important to the plot. This wasn’t done all at once though – all of them were introduced gradually, so people could get to know them one by one.
Well... it was plucked out of a whole paragraph about that topic, that made it easy to misunderstand, so I added the stuff in brackets
I will be sure to remember that about the differing traits, I feel like I totally neglected that! In general my characters had too few friends and interactions, so they felt incomplete. But right now I'm trying to change that, and that time for "gradual introduction" is what I'm missing. I neglected to develop the older kids and have them have friends and all that because I tried to focus on all kids all the time. But whether adding 6 new families of character on one go to "catch up" is right? I don't know either
Must keep thinking. Perhaps one whole chapter with only one character? Get them out of the house, show their life, friends, hobbies, as a "catch-up" after the break? What do you think?
I’m used to negativity or indifference, and on some days, my head is dead-set on disregarding praise and thinking it’s just people being polite. On the other hand, negative feedback stays in my head for weeks. It’s a work-in-progress. 😆
I love hearing from readers. I’m not good with direct praise, but seeing someone really get into the story and start speculating on what will happen next, or trying to guess at secrets makes my entire day. I don’t think a reader should be able to dictate what you need to write, though. They can come with advice, but the writer is not obligated to use it. The worst thing in my opinion that could happen is that a writer changes their story so much at other people’s whims that it no longer feels as their story.
Plus, most people (and I mean this in the best way) are not professional critics. The people who know how to give valuable criticism and feedback generally give it only when needed. This question reminds me of a quote I read somewhere – the average person is great at telling you if they like something, less good at explaining why, and terrible at predicting what they would like in the future.
@miss_eulenauge To be fair I tried to write a ‘scrapbook story’ like that and I enjoyed having the different methods of telling the story, from texts to news clippings to phone calls. It’s fun and I think it can work ^u^
And yeah I had a feeling it was like that, but I wanted to answer all of the questions anyway. I don’t expect people to reply to all of my answers of course, that’d take forever. I either do textwalls or one line posts. There is no inbetween xD
@miss_eulenauge Thanks for the warm welcome. I'll try answering a few questions as well to add to the discussion.
I enjoyed reading everyone's answers so far. There's lots to think about.
Do you have any preconceptions about how SimLit is supposed to be? Or did you used to have some, but you've grown past them as you've read and written more Sims stories?
Not really. I haven't read much to be honest, but I think I've always imagined it could be anything. When Sims 2 was in its heyday, I remember reading an intricate slice of life story about a player-created Sims 2 neighborhood. I also read a fantasy based in TS3 and then Alice and Kev (also TS3) after it was mentioned in some mainstream online publications.
How does the game influence your work? What kind of relationship (or whatever you want to call it) is there between the text and pictures in your Sims stories? And yes, you can answer this even if there is no text or no pics in your story as well. That's a relationship too. What is your planning process for your story?
I think my approach is similar to that of @miss_eulenauge. In short, my sims are characters, not actors, and my story is gameplay-centered. With my approach, I'm more of a journalist or historian than a director or producer. I play the game while taking an obscene amount of screenshots and focusing on details. I treat the screenshots almost as evidence of what happened. Then, I put a narrative together based on the evidence I've gathered, which includes not just the screenshots but my knowledge of my sims' personalities, traits, personal histories, etc. In order for this to work, there has to be a little lag between when I play and when I put together a chapter. It's hard to understand the significance of past actions without knowing something of the present.
In short, my process is play, take screenshots, outline basic events, and then write a little bit or so per event after having played some more. I only play with one household because I'm really slow with my playing and it's too difficult for me to maintain storylines about a ton of unique characters when time passes so quickly in game.
This is just something fun for me to do and so even though I try to keep things concise, sometimes my writing is really self-indulgent. So, honestly, sometimes I think that if people don't read, hopefully they can at least enjoy the pictures. Otherwise, the pictures are evidence of what happened and serve to illustrate the text.
Can any of you relate to this - starting out without clear direction and ending up with a much deeper story than you intended when you're writing your Sims stories?
Probably not, since I consciously do the opposite (push it lighter). I don't want to write something miserable and I think that's what would happen if I kept digging because I already have an intense personality and the game itself is naturally callous about a lot of things. I don't mean that I want to write something shallow, but that my natural tendency is too much, too deep, and too difficult so I'm trying to be more reasonable.
What is good chapter length to keep readers reading?
I don't know. I try to make it easy to read. Some study reported that Gen Z had a less than 4 second attention span, so I try to stick to one or two topics per chapter and under 1000 words (ideally between 300 - 700) because people get tired so easily and love to scroll past something if it's too long. Before posting, I'm constantly cutting clutter from my drafts.
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators, or Trusted Advisors? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
I always consider my audience and I care what they think. I love engagement. It's helpful and fun, but at the same time, readers are absolutely not customers. My story is mine and I'm going to do what I want because it's mine. Sometimes I make "bad" writing choices on purpose because I'm in the mood for it, but I try not to do that too much.
Do you guys think there is any difference at all in quality between a beginner and a master, and do you think there is any point in trying to improve? Or could I get an art gallery to take a piece of paper I scribbled on when I was two because hey, there's no qualitative difference between that and a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh?
There are huge differences in quality between beginners and masters, and random scribbles don't belong in any museum next to the work of one of the post-Impressionist painters (unless it's some kind of special modern art exhibit about comparison or something), but that's not a problem. This sounds awful, but I don't think it's productive to focus on "quality" because that doesn't mean anything. Quality to whom and in what context? I think it's best to do what you can and move on while critically assessing your actions and remembering that it's not that serious. I don't think it's shameful to be a bad writer. If you like writing, just write. If you improve, great. If not, well, at least you had fun? Writing is extremely difficult for most people.
I didn't have the energy to write up more actual thoughts but I wanted to thank everyone in this thread, past and present. I have already learned some very valuable insights about my writing through reflecting and discussing questions with you guys. (and it's not even been 24h I think?)
I have learned why it makes me feel so stressed to add all these new people to my story so suddenly, and what I could do to make it better (except starting to care about my kids' friends earlier next time). I have learned that I feel disconnected to my Sims, mainly because I played under a very careful schedule of SimTime and because I staged so much, and that I want to reconnect with these Sims and really get to know them. Their wishes, desires, what they're like, what their expressions, emotions and voices are.
I want to spend 1-2 SimDays with each character individually and just explore their lives and personalities - give them a free will, look at their firends the slow way instead of the "they are best friends, cheat, check - next friend" way... Stuff I haven't done since god-knows-when.
Oh well. Guess I'm really gonna do that crazy thing. So next I have to figure out how and when I can do that - listen to them, and show their personalities to the audience. Even if 8 unplanned interludes (which means the normal story resuming in November at the earliest) weren't exactly what I expected from my reflections.
Anyways, thank you so much! I'll be sure to be back with reactions to your answers and with more answers of my own.
...and now I need to go to bed because I had only 4h sleep and need to get up for work in 6. Crap.
@miss_eulenauge Late answer is late, woops! Thank you! It does have dark themes in it, unfortunately. There’s a lot of heartwarming moments and humour as well, but the overall plot is dark. You’re very welcome to give it a read. I understand if it’s not everyone’s cup of tea though
I will be sure to remember that about the differing traits, I feel like I totally neglected that! In general my characters had too few friends and interactions, so they felt incomplete. But right now I'm trying to change that, and that time for "gradual introduction" is what I'm missing. I neglected to develop the older kids and have them have friends and all that because I tried to focus on all kids all the time. But whether adding 6 new families of character on one go to "catch up" is right? I don't know either
Must keep thinking. Perhaps one whole chapter with only one character? Get them out of the house, show their life, friends, hobbies, as a "catch-up" after the break? What do you think?
Hmm… I don’t know your characters, but giving the most important ones some extra screentime to flesh them out a bit can’t hurt! You could give them all one “thing” that they’re dealing with or focusing on, so that it’s easier for the reader to tell them apart too. What are they doing in life? Like A is working to be a baker, B just got a dog, C is having romance troubles, and so forth. Would that work?
*edit: Haha, I see that you’re planning to do that already. Let us know how it goes!
Hosting D&D sessions on the side. Interested in playing through some fantasy-themed shenanigans? Send me a message 😘
Do you have any preconceptions about how SimLit is supposed to be? Or did you used to have some, but you've grown past them as you've read and written more Sims stories? If you did have any preconceptions, how did they affect your writing and reading?
Everyone has a different approach to SimLit so I don't have a yardstick to measure them against. I have my way of doing things, which is dramatic prose with plenty of dialogue, but others like to approach it from a reportage or descriptive way that doesn't involve dialogue. I fell into writing SimLit as an experiment so I didn't come along thinking "aha! I've cracked it!" or "I'll show them how it's done". What I do is my own thing.
Are there any stories in particular that made you realize that Sims stories could be more than what you thought they could be?
I discovered SimLit by accident. I tried my hand at making short animated Machinima films but that is very time consuming but I am by nature a storyteller so I wanted to do that but without the hassle of filming, editing, sound editing and uploading a 5 minute film that took a week to do! I was looking around the Sims Forums and discovered the "challenge" page, discovered that people were actually writing short (or long) stories that were derived from their game play and thought I'd give it a go myself. I read a few stories to see how others were approaching it but I can't say one was outstanding in a way that inspired me like no other: I read some very good SimLit but there isn't one that I based my own work off.
How does the game influence your work?
Without the game I couldn't write SimLit, it's that simple. It not only gives me a visual aspect with the screen caps which I can share with the readers but it also drives the story to a large extent. In the early days of Sim 66 I played the game as normal and wrote up the day's events as a chapter in a story but now I steer the interactions and actions of the characters to keep the story flowing. There's this strange thing where I sense the game is predicting what I need for the story! There's been a fair few times I've thought "what would be great at this point is X showing up or this thing to happen" and lo and behold, it does and without me prompting things! Uncanny.
What kind of relationship (or whatever you want to call it) is there between the text and pictures in your Sims stories? And yes, you can answer this even if there is no text or no pics in your story as well. That's a relationship too.
I'm a firm believer that the pictures and the text should go hand in hand when it comes to SimLit. I know of one writer who thinks the gameplay and pictures are mostly irrelevant to their story but I believe the opposite. As my game is set in the 1960s it's important to give the readers a visual representation of that time plus also it's a way of showing off the characters, the fantastic cc I've amassed for the game and giving a sense of what's going on. A picture of the scene means I can dispense with a lot of descriptive writing of what someone looks like, or what they're wearing or what place they're in so I can concentrate on the action, dialogue and motivations of the characters. I don't write a comic book, although I've seen SimLit written as a glossy comic with screencaps done in the graphic novel style and they're really impressive. I'm not that artistic though; I'm more a photographer who writes than a graphic illustrator who writes, so to speak.
"Can any of you relate to this - starting out without clear direction and ending up with a much deeper story than you intended when you're writing your Sims stories?
Oh absolutely! Sim 66 began as a story about this square guy trying to fit in with the Swinging Sixties and it's ended up with subplots involving political conspiracies, borderline sci-fi mysteries, criminal activity, social commentary, free love, romance and melodrama. As things have progressed I have even more ideas to cover war, teenage angst, espionage and even have one of the regular characters with a strange hobby which he has to keep a secret from everyone.
What is good chapter length to keep readers reading?
The chapters are as long as they need to be. In Sim 66 they tend to represent one day of one particular household. Sometimes I've combined days of two separate characters if the actions of one mirror or somehow affect the actions of another and I want to juxtapose them.
What do you think about re-writing?
That's down to the individual authors. I edit and re-read as I'm writing the chapter but once I hit the "publish" button, that's it. I will correct spelling mistakes if I see them after publication but I never re-write the work itself. I'm not seeking perfection with my story and I think the early chapters, brief and not as flowing as the later ones, show how things have developed over time.
Have there been certain types of legacy challenges that turned out well for you and/or you're still using them? What does and doesn't work for you?
I've never done any challenges. I've often thought about it but I like standard gameplay. At one time I had 4 different games going: A standard legacy game, a rotational game in a retro-futuristic setting, a weird experimental one where I gender swapped everyone to see what would happen and the game that became Sim 66. Sim 66 occupies so much of my Sims 4 gaming time that I don't have time to play the others so they're on hold. Sim 66 is a variation of the Decades Challenge but set in one half of one decade and with the aging switched off.
Out of curiosity, do you use a lot of mods, poses, and/or cc in your stories (i.e. a combination, only 1, or none)? How do they affect your stories and your gameplay? Is it important to your storytelling, or could you tell your stories without them? Why do you use it?
Definitely. Sim 66 couldn't exist in its setting without Sixties era cc. I don't use gameplay or pose mods, only custom content clothing and furnishings. One of the biggest pieces of feedback I get from the readers is that they love the fashions the characters wear, especially the Mod "dolly bird" Suzy. It helps the readers visualise the characters but it helps me as well as I build the character. I spend a lot of time doing makeovers for townies and created characters and do a LOT of research: As well as movies, TV shows and some books from that era I have a Pinterest folder with around...get this...1500 images of Sixties fashion and home furnishings. Every outfit you see someone wearing in the story is based on a real image from the 1960s.
Are your Sims Stories read by people you know offline? How do you feel about it?
No and I prefer it that way. I'm like one of those old Victorian writers who write under a pen name because they're a woman and if their husbands knew they were writing bodice ripping melodramas there would be scandal. I'm not a woman, by the way, but I want my SimLit to be something purely to be enjoyed by strangers. I actually write and produce stuff under my real name and in a different format so my offline friends can see that body of work somewhere else and you guys in the Sims 4 community can read my other stuff which is purely for consumption by Sims fans. I don't know, maybe I DO know one of you in real life but we haven't cottoned on yet?
Does other people's work ever make you feel insecure about yours? If so, how do you handle that feeling?
Those SimLit writers who produce stories like they're graphic novels...such talent, energy and time devoted to make a Sims 4 game look and read like something from Kurt Busiek or Frank Miller...I'm in awe of that. There's some writers who I think are bang on the money as storytellers but I don't feel insecure about their work when compared with mine as I'm doing something that isn't like theirs. Maybe if someone came along and did a 1960s set story as a Sims 4 graphic novel and did it better then I would feel more insecure but right now I've kind of cornered a little market of my own so I don't feel like anyone's breathing down my neck. I know my limitations as well; I don't write supernatural or romance stories so I admire those who write that kind of thing well but as I don't do what they're doing I don't feel insecure by comparison.
How do you keep all the characters straight?
I'm not sure what is meant by straight in this context. If you mean how do I keep them consistent and remembering all the subplots they're involved in then I'd say it's getting more difficult as Sim 66 progresses. I'm now at the stage where I have to re-read certain chapters to see I'm not introducing some new bit of information that contradicts a previous one. I did consider keeping a journal where I list all the characters, have extensive biographies and the plots they're involved in but that makes the writing process even more convoluted so I keep it all in my head and refer to previous chapters on occasion.
How do you develop your (side) characters? Do you write backstory that you don't include in your main story?
Yes, totally. What you see in Sim 66 is the tip of the iceberg. Sometimes I'll play out a day in the life of a side character and incorporate what happens into the main story that I write, not as a major plot point, but as background for another chapter. The main one for that is my Hugh Hefner inspired character, Alan Cuffe. He's not a main character but his actions influence a lot of what goes on in the story so I play out some days with him and see if it can be incorporated into the story. Sometimes, and this applies to Julia Epstein and the Sneedleys, they begin as side characters who got promoted to main characters.
do you avoid multiple perspectives and stick to single POV?
The opposite. Every chapter is from someone's point of view as this is a rotational story...or a soap opera if you will. This is going to sound pretentious but when I write a chapter from that character's point of view I adopt the speech pattern of them and I think like them as well. For example Detective John Action: When I write from his perspective he sounds decisive, focussed, alert and sharp. When he's a guest character in someone else's chapter they often see him as volatile and intimidating. The next characters I'm going to introduce will take this one step further because, for the first time, I'm going to write a chapter in the form of a first person inner voice.
Do you write with large ensembles of characters?
Goodness me, yes!
How often do you post? How much is too much? What is your personal preference for reading new SimLit posts?
Oh I'm a total hack! I think I average between 5-7 chapters a month. Is that too much? I don't know, that's up to the readers to decide. I'm having fun...a lot of fun...writing Sim 66 and I don't want to stop. As for reading other works? I always find the time to read about 6-8 of other people's work. Each day you might get one or two new uploads from the ones I follow which is manageable.
Do you ever struggle with how to feel about POSITIVE feedback/praise?
I learned a valuable lesson years ago: If you write, write for yourself and don't fret about the number of readers you get. When I began Sim 66 I didn't get any feedback at all and I didn't know how many readers I had: Maybe they were all bots? But I was having great fun writing it so I took the attitude that I would keep writing and publishing and pretty soon people on the forums would think "you know, there's that Sim 66 story again. What's that all about? I think I might check it out". And that's exactly what's happened! I have about a core of 10 or so regular readers who give me feedback and it's all been good. Some are hooked on it and I like that, it inspires me to raise my game. I've got people who specialise in creating lots who read Sim 66 and when I put in a request for some Sixties era building a couple of them are quick to volunteer because they want to contribute to the look of the story and that, for me, is the highest praise.
If you have several stories in the works, do you post them in separate blogs or the same blog? Why?
I only write Sim 66 but I've toyed with the idea of writing something else. I think I'd like to revisit the retro-futuristic game as SimLit, or do a legacy challenge but write it up as a story instead of writing a report on gameplay...even that gender role reversal idea could be nifty but I know that's a hot button topic these days and would hate to get it wrong and get into trouble! So for now it's just Sim 66 and I will cross that bridge of other stories if and when I get to it.
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators, or Trusted Advisors? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
I genuinely like my readers, well the ones who've given me feedback so far: They seem like nice people. There's probably a wide range of ages between us, our politics and faith might diverge and I know that we are from at least 4 different countries. One of my readers is married with children, others I suspect are teenagers or university student age. That's why I like a certain amount of anonymity: We can form opinions of each other based purely on the way we interact. Like I said before, I write for myself first and my first duty is to make sure the story makes sense, the characters are relatable or enjoyable and the prose flows. I especially like it when my readers speculate on what's going on or what's going to happen and I sit there thinking how correct or off track their guesses are. I have incorporated some feedback: A lot of readers like my character, Julia...she's been a real breakout character...so I'm aware that when I write her chapters I don't let the readers down by getting her to do something inconsistent because it might seem like a fun idea at the time.
What is your planning process for your story?
I consider what's gone on in previous chapters and then play the game. I might have the Sims play out a day or I might have them do things that tag on to a previous chapter. As I'm playing and screen capping images I make a note of what's happened and how I'm going to write that up...that's all a mental process, I don't write it down on a notepad. Then after I've done 24 hours of in-game play I begin to write the story and collate the images.
Discuss your thoughts/philosophies on writing unlikable characters. Especially unlikable/highly flawed protagonists.
So when Sim 66 began I had these characters who were all neighbours living in Foundry Cove and, despite their different characters and attitudes, they were all nice people and good friends of each other. But drama requires conflict and I looked at a few things where I could introduce that: The Landgraabs made for great villains based purely on their official backstory so I ran with that; extrapolated and incorporated it. Then I created the Sneedleys, a dour and snobby couple who were against other people having fun. Finally, and I don't consider him a villain, there's Alan Cuffe who is based on Hugh Hefner and the Kitten Club, which is based on the Playboy Club and Playboy Bunnies. I designed Cuffe deliberately to not conform to the hero/villain dichotomy. He's a champion of free speech, he's loyal to his friends, he promotes talented people and he doesn't demand things with strings attached yet he's a bed hopping lothario, he objectifies women and he cares little for people who don't share his vision so you get different sides to him which you can support or dislike. There's an old adage: A villain doesn't see themselves as a villain, they see themselves as the hero in their own story. An unlikeable character has their own motivations and reasons for doing things and I write them doing just that: They're not evil for evil's sake or, worse, because the story demands they do something evil.
How did you start writing? How did your writing develop?
I know I said I liked a certain amount of anonymity but I'll let you all in on something: I'm a professional writer! I write articles for magazines, write a lot about film and TV history for various websites and have written film scripts. I won't say any more on the subject of my real life work. SimLit is different; it's a kind of busman's holiday. It helps me to hone some skills but it also allows me to try things I can't do in my work: A breezy, game play based story set in a fascinating time in history. I love writing and an hour a day spent writing Sim 66 is fun and relaxing because I'm not getting paid and I don't have an editor or commissioning producer breathing down my neck. It's pure writing without interference.
Do you guys think there is any difference at all in quality between a beginner and a master, and do you think there is any point in trying to improve? Or could I get an art gallery to take a piece of paper I scribbled on when I was two because hey, there's no qualitative difference between that and a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh?
Look, my advice is just write and write for yourself and for fun. The more you do that the better you'll get. And read. Read a lot...not just SimLit, read a lot in general, it all helps.
How do you people see your own text when you read it? How is the experience different compared to reading someone else's work?
I hope people read the text and the character's dialogue and imagine what they sound like...have a "voice" for each one. I know I write them that way: Action has a deep, smooth voice, Julia kind of a squeaky one. I do the same when I read someone else's work. The best writers write dialogue in such a way you can hear them speak...not so much in terms of the quality of their voices but in terms of cadence.
How does the Get together expand the horizons of storytelling and change the way SimLit works for you?
All the game packs add something, if only just for the settings, CAS and furnishings. Get Together brought in some good new premades and the clubs made certain things in Sim 66 possible, namely the Kitten Club and the League of Decency. As a story set in the 1960s discos and dancing are important so I've been able to use a lot of nightclub settings with bright lights and dance floors thanks to Get Together. But the pack that has done the most for the story by far is Get To Work.
Do you have a place or a situation where you plan or get ideas for your stories the best?
Watching old movies and TV shows from the 1960s. I've put in a number of references in Sim 66 so far and I wonder if anyone's spotted them yet.
Have you ever felt 'weird' or 'wrong' when writing your story, but you weren't sure whether the chapter was out of place or if you felt that way because you were out of your comfort zone?
Not much, I sometimes think I might fixate on the fashion side of things too much but this is the 1960s we're talking about! There was a genuine fashion revolution and I can't overstate that enough so if I mention such and such wears a mini skirt, go-go boots or brightly coloured tights then that's because those things were a big deal back then whereas I don't think fashion is talked about in the same way today: All those things I've mentioned are mainstream, accepted and been around so long as to not be commented on these days. Some readers might not get that and think I've got some weird fixation on the way people dress but you should read the magazine articles of those times to understand.
Now recently a reader commented on whether I would be addressing racism, sexism, the Vietnam war and other social issues. Those things run the risk of offending others so you have to treat those subjects with respect. We live in an age where if you get it wrong as a writer you don't just get negative criticism, you could lose your access to forums, your blog site and social media accounts. But do I avoid them? Well, no, and I don't want to but it does mean I have to take extra care and attention. My rule is that those issues must serve the story, not dominate them. I can think of a lot of recent shows and movies where the social commentary is laid on so thick it beats the viewer over the head. Like classic Star Trek, I want to weave issues into the story seamlessly. I know there's plenty of issues I could cover but haven't yet, like gay relationships or teen angst or infidelity but that doesn't mean I won't ever cover them...there's so much going on in the story right now I don't have the time to incorporate them! One thing I do want to do, which could be controversial, is have a cross-dresser character. Don't ask me why I want to have that, it's part of a bigger plot. But I won't treat the subject with disrespect.
For those of you who have had "woohoo" moments come up, any advice?
By far the trickiest part of writing the story. Up until now I've tended to focus on the build up, then they hop into bed (or closet) and I end with a screen cap of the lump in the bed, steam and floating hearts and that's that. There have been times when I've written something more...shall we say...detailed but I then delete it because I don't write that kind of fiction. I've yet to find the right balance between good taste and graphic detail.
is it worth including this [adult] kind of content and risk scaring readers away or should I not worry about it... or should I even be putting stuff out there that younger readers shouldn't really be reading?
Good question. Sim 66 is 12+ in rating. I considered making it more graphic when I shifted the story from The Sims Forums to Blogger but I'm happy writing it for young teens and above; it suits my style.
Do you know Pixar’s 22 rules of Storytelling? What are your thoughts about them?
No, my guide is John Truby's The Anatomy of Story.
for your SimLit blogs, do you have your latest posts on your homepage or a specific homepage? Right now I have a specific homepage, but I'm wondering about the benefits of having readers click right to your latest posts, or the downsides of this. Thoughts?
For blogger the latest chapter always shows up first. I promote Sim 66 on these forums, the Sims of History and Sim Lit Society Discord boards and I'm hoping the SimLit directory lists it soon. Any other SimLit websites people can recommend then do let me know. Blogger is easy to navigate for readers.
Do you ever want to switch things up a bit and try something new? Play another character in town? How do you keep things interesting?
The rotational nature of Sim 66 keeps it fresh for me: It'll be Jeremy Saint one chapter, then John Action, Suzy Kent, The Sneedleys and the rest on others. All with their own stories and perspectives. Soon I'll be introducing a new character who will narrate his day in the first person, the first time I've tried that.
what's your favorite season in The Sims and why? Does the season affect your storytelling and how?
There's only one season in Sim 66 as I don't have Seasons. It's low down on my to-buy list. If I did have it I'd say Autumn/Fall would be my favourite.
How do you prepare your chapters? Do your rough drafts look already extensive and detailed, or are they mere jot notes? Do you even prepare anything in advance, or do you just jump right in and write/take pictures according to what's fresh in your imagination?
Once I've played a day in the game I note what's happened, look at the screen caps and work out where they'll appear. Then I just write; it takes me 3-5 days to complete a chapter writing on average between 1-2 hours a day. Not always consecutive hours and days, mind.
When you're reading a story what kind of "hook" is effective. Will an exciting scene draw you in and make you want to know about the story and characters, or do you prefer a chance to know the character before you'll care about the "drama".
The opening sentence or exchange is crucial. Get me hooked in the first 3 lines. And end with the promise of more, make me eager to wait for the next instalment.
In regards to monsters, are you more willing to take the word of the characters that these things are terrible and terrifying (even if you don't see them hurt anybody) or do you need to see it with your own eyes before you'll believe it?
Monsters represent a primeval fear deep within the mind so they reflect that. When that fear is dispelled, they no longer become monsters. In Sims 4 terms those things are represented by the ghosts and aliens. Until we know what they are and what they represent, they are treated as things to fear because they're the unknown, the chaotic, the disruptive. If, and when, they are proven to be benign they are incorporated into the known, everyday world.
How important is it to you that you understand what's going on? Are you able to go along with a story where sometimes you get jargon thrown at you that isn't explained right away?
In real life people use jargon as a way of using a kind of language that represents group membership: Use these terms to show you're "in" with a certain crowd. I don't like that sort of thing...and if I'm reading a story I want the jargon to be a reflection of who that character is but I don't want the writer to use that objectively in their own voice and not the characters'. For example if you ever read the novel "A Clockwork Orange" that's written entirely in futuristic slang; hard going at first but it does give a sense of the characters.
How often do you publish posts? How much is too much?
As soon as I finish a chapter I publish it... I can't wait to the next day or the day after. I was aware that this summer, for a few weeks, I was the only writer posting new chapter links in the Writer's Lounge. I don't blame people if they got sick of me after a while!
I let songs guide my stories. Anyone else does that? I'd like to hear what yours were
A big part of Sim 66 is the soundtrack that goes with it. I put in links to songs from the Sixties at various points in the chapter. Most of it is diegetic: A character walks into a nightclub and I'll have a particular song playing which the reader can listen to as they read.
Have you written about the diversity/inclusion/racial tension issue in your Sims stories and how have you addressed it? If you haven't, is this something you would consider talking about in a story and if so, how? If not, that's okay, but have you read other stories that address the topics and how do you think other authors have handled the hot button issues?
I care most about characters as individuals and personalities and less about their immutable characteristics. I know this is a really hot button issue right now but I don't write to check boxes. One thing I did do when researching the Sixties was to look at the demographic breakdown of the United States as it was at that time. I adjusted the population of my game to fit those historic statistics so a lot of game generated Arabian, North African or Indian characters were dropped and more black, Hispanic and East Asian characters introduced because that's more historical.
Now with that said the racial tensions in the Sixties were profound, but how to best depict that? I hope my readership will trust me on that one when I come to address it. As for gay characters, they've not featured heavily yet...one supporting character is bisexual...but they will. But it will be done in a proper historic context and not through a modern prism.
Do you guys run with all your story ideas, or do you sit on some of them?
I queue up all my story ideas.
Do you guys ever feel like this with your work? Like just lost and not sure if it has any point or is any good or if it's worth anything at all?
I started Sim 66 with little or no expectations and everything's been up since then.
Do you outline way far out ahead, just a chapter at a time, or never outline and just play? If you do outline in advance, do you play gameshots out of order of the actual story you're writing?
A bit of both. I'm not writing something like Babylon 5 with this massive 5 year story arc. I think about how the next chapter will tag on to what went previously and there's some longer term story ideas. I want to send a character to Vietnam, for example. How I'm going to manage that has yet to be worked out. But those longer term ideas will be shaped and modified by what happens in the short term. And yes, screen caps are sometimes, but not most of the time, depicted out of order.
Do you think you're decent at writing? If so, when did you realize that? If not, when will you know?
I've always been good at writing dialogue, I'm not sure I can write prose to the same standard. I'm growing as a writer and I'm hoping it will help my professional work.
For those of you who do share your stories with people you know personally (family and friends), how did you start? Do you typically get positive feedback? If not, how do you handle constructive criticism? Any advice? For those of you who have done world-building for their stories what's it like to work within the limits of the game?
I don't share my story with people I know. World building is very important to me...when I did the retro-futuristic game I decided on how the buildings would look, what people wore and what the future timeline involved. I had a specific design ethos on that one and the results looked good in my opinion, I'm not sure others would agree!
In Sim 66 the limiting factor of the late Sixties is both a constraint and a creative blessing. Sure, I can't show people using mobile phones but the world building, the time taken to make a Sim look period appropriate and the research I do make it worthwhile. I love the world I've created: I'm writer, director, art director and costume designer rolled into one.
As for criticism, no one's had a bad word to say so far...I'll cross that bridge when it happens.
Something I really struggle with is writing descriptively. I feel like I'm a strong writer in terms of character building, back story, and dialogue, but my descriptive "in-between" writing is so-so in my opinion. I struggle with trying to figure out the difference between writing meaningful description that contributes to the plot and flow and info-dumping or just writing "filler fluff." Sometimes I feel like a Sims screenshot can explain away anything I can't in my writing, but I feel like this is almost a cop-out sometimes. Someone once told me that I should pay attention the five senses and I've been trying that out in my main story. Any suggestions? How do you write descriptively in SimLit? Do you let screenshots do the talking or a mixture of screenshots and prose?
I hear you on that one. Sometimes I want to cut the exposition and inner monologue and get straight to the dialogue and action. But I have to serve the story and its needs and if that means paragraphs of descriptive text then so be it...it'll make those fun zippy dialogue scenes all the better when they happen. Discipline, you need some discipline as a writer but the screen caps are a handy way of cutting out the descriptive prose to set the scene.
how do you write something fresh, if that's your thing? Or are you totally cool with reading stories that are similar to each other and that's your thing? I know that I find inspiration in the limits of the game, and I could see someone else finding inspiration in the limits of a genre.
I don't know, I just do it! When in doubt, just write, is my advice. I am drawn to certain types of SimLit: The decades challenges, period settings, more realistic stuff. Sometimes I feel vampires, spellcasters and mermaids are a little beyond my tastes but if it's well written, I'll read it but it's not something I go out of my way to find. It also helps if I can relate somehow to one or more characters in the story. Some of the more emosh teen stories with people all having woohoo with each other not that relatable! I'm not knocking that style, it's just I'm probably too vanilla in real life to appreciate that.
What experiences did you have as a writer in being friends with other writers? And with non-writer friends who read and like or not like, or even refuse to read your stories?
In the real, professional world I was part of a comedy writing group but a lot of the time the competitiveness is off putting: We're all chasing a limited number of writing jobs so you get defensive, secretive and pushy with your work whilst worrying whether that person you've shared an idea with is going to steal it and get the commission instead of you. I have two close friends who are writers...and we work as a team so we avoid the politicking. When we work solo we don't steal from or betray one another but it's hard to develop that level of trust. Here, in SimLit land there's none of that...you write and read stuff and don't worry about competition.
How do you all deal with in-game "derailings" and curve balls? Do you let them dictate the plot, influence your plot, or do you ignore and proceed with your story?
Roll with it, baby!
do you all find that your reading perspective is different from when you write?
When I read other people's work I'm entirely in their hands. When I write I'm master of my own story. It's the difference between control and letting go and sometimes reading's a little tricky if you're too used to controlling things. "Oh I would have done that a different way!" and all that.
The idea behind the “four doors” theory by Nancy Pearl is that there are four main things that people look for in what they read, and different people have different priorities.
Language
Character
Story
Setting
So what order would you put your doors in as a writer, and in which order as a reader? What do these doors mean to you?
I've not encountered Nancy Pearl or her theory before but I'd say Character is the most important, then story, then setting and finally language but I don't compartmentalise things like that. The characters are what's going to drive the story and hook people in so their actions drive the story but those actions are in some ways determined by their setting and the language is how they respond to what they're doing.
While it's not exactly a question about the art of Sims storytelling, I do have a vaguely writing-related head-scratcher (or, rather, a series of them) to pose to you: Is it important for you to know the gender of an author if their pen-name is ambiguous? Or, do you ever find yourself curious about an author's gender in that same situation... to the point of outright asking them? And is asking them that question an 'acceptable' thing to do, or does it overstep the bounds of the author/reader relationship?
I mentioned before I'm a man but I don't think about what image people might have of me. I don't really have an image of the other writers and readers either. I hope people don't think "oh it's written by a man so it's going to be like this kind of story", I just want people to think of Sim 66 first and wonder who Kellogg J Kellogg is as an afterthought.
how much do you think about where to put your pictures (before/ after the text they belong to) or do they just seem to fit where you put them? Does it correspond with whether you first write or first screenshot?
On some platforms the image appears in the link if you put it early on in your story so I do devote the time to choose an image I know will form the thumbnail on a link. Also, when I post the link to the story in the Sims Forums I look for not necessarily the best screen cap or the most dramatic but the one that has a certain charm or look or detail that will perk the interest of the casual thread reader.
Do you challenge stereotypes and assumptions in your Sim-lit? If so, how? To clarify, do you challenge the stereotypes of the Sims world and/or characteristics of Sims or typical SimLit writing styles? On the flip side, do you think there's a time and place for stereotypes, and if so, when and where? Does your idea of stereotypes or challenging stereotypes change when you're a reader vs. a writer?
I play with stereotypes. They're useful for shorthand but I use them, not the other way around. In Sim 66 people have various views of what the 1960s were like so I play up some of those stereotypes (for example, the fashion) and undercut them for dramatic effect in other ways (not everyone is into peace and love). A lot of people today are shocked at how people lived back then but if you read contemporary accounts and opinions of people who actually lived in those times you'll find that they considered certain things as normal or weren't bothered by them or had a unique take on life that counter the narrative that's been created in recent times about the past. I have to respect the people of those times.
what makes a GOOD writer?
Someone who creates interested and compelling characters and gives them interesting things to do whilst making sense.
The interesting things about stereotypes is that, a poorly executed stereotype can often be received better than a well-written break from tradition. Because of that it can be hard for people to branch out, but it's healthy to try, even if just to test yourself. Maybe we could look at writing a short-story from two points of view, one which plays on a particular stereotype, and the other which challenges that same stereotype?
People draw familiarity from stereotypes. They give the reader or viewer a stable platform from which they can navigate their way through parts of the story. I think the multiple point of view story is a good idea, it worked especially well in the movie "Rashomon" and one of my favourite TV shows...season 1 of Boomtown (a forgotten show from a few years ago...season 1 used the multiple story angle but it was dropped for season 2 and the show got cancelled).
when/how is writing hard for you, and what does it mean for it to be hard and how do you handle it?
The hard bit is finding the time and staving off tiredness.
How do you all write comedy in your SimLit? Does it come easily and naturally or do you struggle also?
I've written a lot of comedy in my time so I find it comes naturally. I don't mean that as a brag but I do see a lot of humour in things. Often in Sim 66 I'll write something serious and dramatic and then the next chapter Jeremy will get all tongue tied in front of a woman and there'll be a misunderstanding. My favourite joke I wrote in Sim 66 is where Geoffrey Landgraab is trying to describe to Jeremy what his wife, Nancy, does for a living without actually saying she's a crook.
"Nancy works late...it's a safe job"
"Oh as in regular pay and hours?"
"No as in an actual safe at a bank"
"Making deposits?"
"No, the opposite"
Comedy is the juxtaposition of the everyday and the fantastical with humorous results. When the results are tragic, it's horror.
When you're stuck in a corner with your SimLit writing, how do you find a way out?
Comments
@CathyTea Thanks for the shoutout and the kind words again.
As for the ensemble cast -thing:
First of all, you @AdamsEve1231 , @InfraGreen and @rednenemon are really good with ensemble casts. It's so cool how you keep track of everyone.
I think that my Tango has a fairly large cast, and it has a changing POV so I guess it takes some keeping track of. So I guess I'll answer AdamsEve's questions:
Not all of them are.
Sorry, I think someone with a better queer rep in their stories than me should have made that joke. Anyway, as for how I keep track of them, I also have a list (not a very detailed one, just basically like a theatre-play dramatis personae -sort of list) of characters, as well as some other notes on where I want them to end up, what their ages are, etc.
I try to either develop them as they naturally develop in the story, or then offer a snapshot of their lives when it feels appropriate, if they don't have that much development time. I really like these character introduction-moments, where I can try to infodump stuff in a way that I try to make at least somewhat entertaining. I do have some developments I want to happen to certain characters, and I set out to slowly build up towards them in a hopefully organic-for-the-genre way.
Also yeah, I do have some backstory for characters that doesn't show in the main story. Sometimes I slip snippets of it in, but for some, like one of my main characters (Novak), the backstory is kept a secret on purpose. I've still written it, in a whole short story and everything. He's also ironically the only Sim of the main Tango-cast who was created as a child and then played into adulthood, so he's the one who actually has the most backstory in-game.
Depends on the work. In Tango I switch up a lot, but with my other SimLit stories I only have about two or three different POV-characters. The way I switch points of view is very uh... I was going to say intuitive but that gives me way too much credit. I switch POV when it just feels appropriate, is what I'm trying to say. I choose the point of view for whichever feels the most effective, which keeps the necessary secrets or reveals the necessary details, or which is the most relevant for the scene etc.
With my other stories, Forget-Me-Not and Stardust Sapling, I try to keep the POV changes in-between chapters, so one chapter is always just one point of view. It helps that in those stories I also try to keep the chapters shorter.
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
how do i what now
You could say they develop themselves. I suppose I go with one or two things I decide to associate with them, and let it grow from there.
All the time. Sometimes I do show snippets here and there, but for the most part I don't really delve into backstories all that deeply. To try and explain a bit more:
As for multiple POVs, I seem to always do that. Sometimes I linger on one character, then I go to another one's point of view as a sort of "Meanwhile..."
Force of habit of mine, I suppose.
Part One(Complete 9/24/16) /Part Two(on hold)/Short Stories(on hold)/Twinbrook 1996(on hold)/Ten Crystal Hearts (on hold)
I own the TS3 Store as of 12/11/16 (sort of. It's complicated)
Thank you so much for the direct links to your stories/stories you love! Maybe I'm new or its common, but I find the forum overwhelming with so many choices, threads, events, and challenges ongoing, and then having to browse sim wiki or search online for newbie questions like 'what is a legacy family/challenge'. I picture myself getting thrown in a marching band in the middle of a parade, and everyone has their position, role and interests figured out while I'm waddling in baby steps.
@CathyTea, I'm loving your reading list. When I first browsed Creative Corner, I was hoping for a thread which categorised stories by genre, plot, something to make it easier to navigate should I feel like doing light reading or venture into a deep adventure. Can't wait to build a Simlit reading collection from there
@Firande, Cheers! I can't wait to read your works. I feel sheepish to talk about mine, considering how green I am, but here goes. Between2Worlds is about a girl born on the wrong side of celebrity stardom. For all the privileges it brought, the price she felt was unbearable. As she struggles to find acceptance and a sense of belonging, she meets people (and beings) from polar opposite backgrounds, yet they were just like her - caught in a web of contrasts and contradictions. Together they explore what each side has to offer, and ultimately try to find their place in life. The story is mostly drama, romance and supernatural and the themes explored are of privilege & disadvantage, fame & infamy, normal & crime world. Ps. they won't stay teens forever.
Thank you for taking an interest in my story, but I need to rewrite the first few subchapters. I get horrible goosebumps rereading the first few posts ugh.. You're welcome to read it of course, but if you like, I could let you know when I post a proper thread of the story on the forums, with updates and links and all that
Happy New Year everyone!
The Journey Begins
Where in Simterra is... São Paten?
Find me elsewhere:
My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
My Worldbuilding Blog
Simblr
My Sims Pinterest
I'm not sure if this is the best way to do this or if anyone will even see this but I'm looking for someone with sims 4 storytelling or general writing experience to help me out with a project. The idea is a hilariously dramatic sims murder mystery graphic novel. I have a bunch of ideas for plot, characters and staging but my writing skills aren't that great lol. So if you're seeing this and are interested on working on this with me, message me on my tumblr (cherrysodasims) :) thanks!
On EA forum Stories and Legacies board and on QueenOfMyshuno.tumblr.com
I'm actually collecting all the answered questions and plan to answer these that I feel I should reflect most on right now - just for me. But if this is still active I'd gladly stick my thoughts here to re-start the discussion, or, as @CathyTea told @MedleyMisty a few pages of reading ago - to give some new ideas so it can sprout insights again...
The hard part is reading the discussions and wanting to share my 2 cents, then remembering "oh wait this was 6 years ago"...
time zone: Berlin, Germany - EA Gallery ID: Noctuara
Read Sim 66 here:https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/978195/sim-66/p1
https://kelloggjkellogg.blogspot.com/2020/10/sim-66-prologue.html
And I find I really wish it were still active as this place to ponder writing questions - less the "How do you think this paragraph sounds" from Cathy's other threads, but stuff like the evolution of (my) writing. Rewriting stuff. Worldbuilding and fleshing out side characters without losing the main focus to the story. What that main focus, the core of ones story actually is. And that's just the ones I can think of at the top of my head...
Sigh. Do you think we could do that, with or without the lovely writers from "Round 1"?
Since I mentioned that I was collecting all the questions from this thread while reading through it, I figured I could share the collection
I think these questions are an awesome starting place for reflections on ones own SimLit, although I'D encourage everybody to go read through the answers and this thread with all its new thoughts themselves.
So after this unneccesarily long explanation (I really really need to go to bed) - here you go.
Oh yeah, and as always - please be aware of the fact that if you are logged into a google account with your offline name and then access a Google Doc shared online, that Offline Name will be visible. Be careful about your data and in doubt, please log out first or (like me) have a separate account under a pen name for stuff like this.
time zone: Berlin, Germany - EA Gallery ID: Noctuara
@miss_eulenauge I answered some of those questions. Warning- long post incoming. I wrote this just before bed hence the brevity, I’ll try expanding on some of the answers when I have time!
I used to think SimLit was honestly 90% flimsy, trashy dramas with unlikable characters, but this forum swiftly changed my mind on narrative-based SimLit!
Are there any stories in particular that made you realize that Sims stories could be more than what you thought they could be?
An offsite friend I met on another forum had a great story with lovable characters. I'm not linking it here since they are planning a reboot and I don't want to link the old version for that reason. One of my favourite stories on this site is
@_sims_Yimi 's Tales of Camelot. It was one of the first I started reading here and the screenshots, dedication, characters and writing are all fantastic. It's easily one of the best SimLits I've read so far.
How does the game influence your work?
Some of my SimLit is inspired by the challenge I'm playing as I'm writing it. Others have bits inspired by the RNG of the game, like Sentiments, Emotions etc.
What kind of relationship (or whatever you want to call it) is there between the text and pictures in your Sims stories? And yes, you can answer this even if there is no text or no pics in your story as well. That's a relationship too.
I am limited due to not being able to use CC or mods, but that's hardly a limit- what good is pretty pictures if the writing is garbage? The screenshots are enough of an idea to know what's going on, but all the important stuff is told through the writing.
"Can any of you relate to this - starting out without clear direction and ending up with a much deeper story than you intended when you're writing your Sims stories?
My story Untamed was just an Arcane Academy Challenge when I started writing it, then it spawned a whole trilogy XD
What is good chapter length to keep readers reading?
Depends entirely on the reader.
What do you think about re-writing?
Don't get into a reboot loop, whatever you do. If it's just a small thing like a way something is written, or one dodgy line, re-write it, but don't re-write a whole story or plotline just because you got criticism or the perfectionist got the better of you. Finish your work- you'll have something to compare your new work to later and you'll see how you've improved.
Have there been certain types of legacy challenges that turned out well for you and/or you're still using them? What does and doesn't work for you?
I honestly got bored of reading legacy challenges, I only read narrative-based stuff now. That said, a legacy I read years ago was what got me into reading SimLit because every single gen had an interesting story.
Out of curiosity, do you use a lot of mods, poses, and/or cc in your stories (i.e. a combination, only 1, or none)? How do they affect your stories and your gameplay? Is it important to your storytelling, or could you tell your stories without them? Why do you use it?
I don't use CC or mods because I'm a console player but it's not a drawback to me at all. The screenshots are a compliment to the story, not the other way around. It's just nice to have them there as a sort of idea of what's going on.
Are your Sims Stories read by people you know offline? How do you feel about it?
No-one offline has time to read my writing.
Does other people's work ever make you feel insecure about yours? If so, how do you handle that feeling?
Sometimes. I take a break from my work and I come back later. The constant-comparing-of-yourself-to-someone-else is toxic and creators need to break themselves away from that as much as possible. There's already one of that person- so be yourself. Take inspiration, but don't emulate others too much. Being unique and yourself is more important than being someone else.
How do you keep all the characters straight?
Not sure what this question means really, but I'll give my joke answer and say hardly any of my characters are straight XD
How do you develop your (side) characters? Do you write backstory that you don't include in your main story?
Sometimes I do. As for side characters, most of them have a personality trait or two that comes through- something that at least give them a little character.
do you avoid multiple perspectives and stick to single POV?
I go for multiple POVs because it's more interesting to see varying lives, experiences and outlooks on the situation. Depends on the story you want to tell, though. Single POV is fun when you have an unreliable narrator, or not many main characters.
Do you write with large ensembles of characters?
Normally, no, but my current story has left me with a pretty hefty cast.
How often do you post? How much is too much? What is your personal preference for reading new SimLit posts?
If someone writes too frequently, I check their blog monthly. For me, I aim to post once a week. Due to life and game glitches that has slowed down.
Do you ever struggle with how to feel about POSITIVE feedback/praise?
No, I take the praise and I am glad to know I am doing something right.
If you have several stories in the works, do you post them in separate blogs or the same blog? Why?
The same blog. People have politely complained about my blog/stories being inconvenient for various reasons so they are all on the same blog for clarity's sake.
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators, or Trusted Advisors? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
I don't expect to have any relationship with my readers. I appreciate people who read, I especially appreciate people who comment. Some stay, some go, that's just how it is. I am thankful for everyone who reads my stuff, and especially for my regular reader/s. I am not there to wholly supply a reader's needs- I am the writer, it's my story ultimately. I will listen to criticism, I have made changes due to constructive crit before, but the final say is mine on what changes and what doesn't. If people are going to be irritating on wanting me to write around them, then my writing is not for them.
What is your planning process for your story?
Rough plot, characters, flesh out characters, write down plot ideas, string them together into a plot of sorts, do screenshots, write chapter, post.
Discuss your thoughts/philosophies on writing unlikable characters. Especially unlikable/highly flawed protagonists.
Honestly, I don't know. Some people are just garbage because they want to be and there's no real reason as to why they are garbage, same as real life. That's not a bad thing for a certain character or two to be like. Some unlikable characters you can identify or sympathise with, others are just irritating and I feel like I'm being forced to sympathise with someone who has committed many heinous acts because of this that or the other. This is a big issue for me in SimLit with male characters in romances especially- I'm sick of romanticised abuse in fiction, and double sick when the author implies that I'm expected to feel sympathy for an abuser. No thanks!
How did you start writing? How did your writing develop?
I started writing 'more seriously' when I was 13 after reading the entire Harry Potter series on an Easter holiday. I don't like HP anymore, haven't done since I was 16. Took a long break from writing, started writing SimLit in 2019.
Do you guys think there is any difference at all in quality between a beginner and a master, and do you think there is any point in trying to improve? Or could I get an art gallery to take a piece of paper I scribbled on when I was two because hey, there's no qualitative difference between that and a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh?
Creators often have a stick up their backsides about quality and think they can dictate what's good and what isn't- no-one else will tell you this but those people need to realise that all creative work is entirely SUBJECTIVE. One man's trash is another man's treasure, a child's first story is no different than one of the great's amazingly-long epic tale. There's an audience for everything.
How do you people see your own text when you read it? How is the experience different compared to reading someone else's work?
I read it back in my head in the character's 'voice', like a movie. If it sounds cringe, I edit it.
How does the Get together expand the horizons of storytelling and change the way SimLit works for you?
Clubs can be handy for screenshots.
Do you have a place or a situation where you plan or get ideas for your stories the best?
Not really, inspiration can strike at any time.
Have you ever felt 'weird' or 'wrong' when writing your story, but you weren't sure whether the chapter was out of place or if you felt that way because you were out of your comfort zone?
Yes, I have felt like 'should I be writing this?' but I did research to make sure I was writing things respectfully and accurately. I have had issues come up in my story I have never dealt with so I research them and people's real life experiences with those issues. Sometimes you will have to break out of the comfort zone.
For those of you who have had "woohoo" moments come up, any advice?
Not something I can answer in-detail on this forum, but do your research- read what works and what doesn't for people. Read it back to yourself- if you want it to be intimate and it makes you laugh or cringe instead, rewrite it. If it is not something you have experienced, read about the thoughts and experiences of people who have. Focus on what kind of story you want and how you want the readers to feel, then you know how much detail you ought to go into. For me, it's not about what you can see, it's not about how attractive the situation or characters is, it's not about...you know what. It's about the raw, passionate emotions, it's about seeing the character's true self come through in a primal moment, not putting on a mask, not hiding anything. It's a powerful tool for showing characters' feelings and personalities as well as just...you know.
is it worth including this [adult] kind of content and risk scaring readers away or should I not worry about it... or should I even be putting stuff out there that younger readers shouldn't really be reading?
Content warnings should be used. It's really not my fault if someone does not read the content warnings.
Do you know Pixar’s 22 rules of Storytelling? What are your thoughts about them? (https://www.aerogrammestudio.com/2013/03/07/pixars-22-rules-of-storytelling/ )
I have, but in reality, there are no rules to storytelling, there are no rules to creativity.
for your SimLit blogs, do you have your latest posts on your homepage or a specific homepage? Right now I have a specific homepage, but I'm wondering about the benefits of having readers click right to your latest posts, or the downsides of this. Thoughts?
I have a link to the latest chapter of the latest story right at the top of the blog.
Do you ever want to switch things up a bit and try something new? Play another character in town? How do you keep things interesting?
Sometimes. Some of my stories have 'Interlude' chapters specifically for this.
what's your favorite season in The Sims and why? Does the season affect your storytelling and how?
Winter. It means more long-shot screenshot spam. XD
How do you prepare your chapters? Do your rough drafts look already extensive and detailed, or are they mere jot notes? Do you even prepare anything in advance, or do you just jump right in and write/take pictures according to what's fresh in your imagination?
Sometimes the whole plot of a chapter is fresh in my mind- sometimes not. My chapter plans are rough ideas of what happens in that chapter and that's it. Sometimes I'm more 'seat of my pants' with chapters than others.
When you're reading a story what kind of "hook" is effective. Will an exciting scene draw you in and make you want to know about the story and characters, or do you prefer a chance to know the character before you'll care about the "drama".
Depends on the story, either way works.
In regards to monsters, are you more willing to take the word of the characters that these things are terrible and terrifying (even if you don't see them hurt anybody) or do you need to see it with your own eyes before you'll believe it?
The word of the characters can work, but you can't always rely on them to tell the truth! One story I'm reading has many people tell a story of a spellcaster who is trying to be raised from the dead, a terribly powerful Untamed spellcaster. It works well.
How important is it to you that you understand what's going on? Are you able to go along with a story where sometimes you get jargon thrown at you that isn't explained right away?
If I'm enjoying the characters and writing enough, I don't care what's going on. I struggle to follow plots anyway, just give me good writing and interesting characters! As for jargon, there's such a thing as too much for me. If you're writing a story with a lot of unexplained words, either to look 'smart' or in the expectation that your readers will have the same knowledge as you on a niche subject, just...not for me.
How often do you publish posts? How much is too much?
Weekly. Daily posts are hard to follow for me. Daily posts, I handle at the end of the week.
I let songs guide my stories. Anyone else does that? I'd like to hear what yours were
Depends on the story, depends on the character.
Have you written about the diversity/inclusion/racial tension issue in your Sims stories and how have you addressed it? If you haven't, is this something you would consider talking about in a story and if so, how? If not, that's okay, but have you read other stories that address the topics and how do you think other authors have handled the hot button issues?
I read about people's everyday real-life experiences of racism, and events in history, before I wrote a story in which aliens are treated in a prejudiced manner for the most part. There's a lot you can learn from researching real life, and fantasy/sci-fi is a good way of showing allegory to real-life social issues. I don't know what racism is like, I have privilege. People will think they know what it's like when they haven't experienced it, but in reality you'll have no idea unless you've experienced it- so do your research, look at the writings and experiences of people who have experienced the prejudice you are dealing with before you start writing about it. It won't be about you, and it won't always be comfortable, but your comfort isn't the point when you're reading about the atrocities other people have experienced. The point is to try and get things as close as possible. You won't get it right all the time, but that's fine, there's always something new to learn.
I can’t speak for how others handle racism due to privilege, but as for how authors handle prejudice against my community…it’s not something I’ve see handled well by anyone who isn’t in the community unfortunately. It’s usually something thrown in for drama, but the character usually still stays right in the background and it’s never much of a focus. Then again I’d much rather read a story where the LGBT+ characters’ story is something outside of a coming out drama plot anyway.
Unintentionally, my own LGBT+ experiences have coloured my work, especially my Magic Universe works. One or two readers have picked up on this. It was unintentional at first but sometimes I roll with the allegory. If anyone is ever upset about the inclusion,diversity, or portrayal of anything in my work then they are free to raise concerns with me.
Do you guys run with all your story ideas, or do you sit on some of them?
I sit on some of them. I roll with most of them.
Do you guys ever feel like this with your work? Like just lost and not sure if it has any point or is any good or if it's worth anything at all?
Sometimes. I take a break and come back to it later if I ever feel down about my work.
Do you outline way far out ahead, just a chapter at a time, or never outline and just play? If you do outline in advance, do you play gameshots out of order of the actual story you're writing?
I write all of my initial unorganised ideas in one place, all my organised chapter ideas in another. I have some things planned out way in advance but not always.
Do you think you're decent at writing? If so, when did you realize that? If not, when will you know?
I have not always been good at writing, but I've always seen myself as a decent writer. I finally have an original writing style (After two years of trying to be Chuck Palahniuk when I was a teenager XD), I have fleshed out characters with varying experiences and personalities. I'm not the best, my plots need a lot of work- but I don't need to be the best. I go at my own pace. As long as I like my stuff, then it's all good.
For those of you who do share your stories with people you know personally (family and friends), how did you start? Do you typically get positive feedback? If not, how do you handle constructive criticism? Any advice? For those of you who have done world-building for their stories what's it like to work within the limits of the game?
The story covers the limits of what I can deal with in the game. I also edit screenshots using an art processor sometimes. My family/friends outside of Simmers don't read my stuff.
As for criticism, it doesn't bother me anymore. I've been a creator for years, I've dealt with helpful polite people, and I've dealt with wannabe caustic critics whose entire personality is cringey vitriol, who want to make up for their own insecurities online by being popular on the internet for having no emotional control.
Some people cannot deal even with polite criticism, and I've dealt with people like this who have let my constructive criticism live rent-free in their heads. Those people have no inner or outer critic and their writing remains stagnant as a result, IMO. Don't waste your energy on these people. If criticism upsets you, walk away from the computer, take the time to calm down, then come back. If someone's criticism is useful, use it. If it's useless, don't.
Do not get over-defensive about your work, either- all art is subjective, and it won't be for everyone. Listen to criticism, but don't act like your work is untouchable either- especially if you yourself deal out blunt criticism 24/7.
Something I really struggle with is writing descriptively. I feel like I'm a strong writer in terms of character building, back story, and dialogue, but my descriptive "in-between" writing is so-so in my opinion. I struggle with trying to figure out the difference between writing meaningful description that contributes to the plot and flow and info-dumping or just writing "filler fluff." Sometimes I feel like a Sims screenshot can explain away anything I can't in my writing, but I feel like this is almost a cop-out sometimes. Someone once told me that I should pay attention the five senses and I've been trying that out in my main story. Any suggestions? How do you write descriptively in SimLit? Do you let screenshots do the talking or a mixture of screenshots and prose?
The level of description depends on the character. Some people are more flowery and descriptive than others are. It depends on the character and how they see the world. I would say, do not let screenshots take complete charge of the whole story. I think you can have a good written story with poor screenshots, but pretty pictures won't keep me reading a story if I don't like it.
how do you write something fresh, if that's your thing? Or are you totally cool with reading stories that are similar to each other and that's your thing? I know that I find inspiration in the limits of the game, and I could see someone else finding inspiration in the limits of a genre.
The game limits will mean some stories are slightly same-y in ways. No such thing as truly fresh, everything is inspired by something. Originality is overrated, people are looking for something that doesn't exist in art- we are all inspired by things and everything is stolen from somewhere whether intentional or not. That said though, sometimes folks who try too hard to completely emulate other writers, it's a bit of a turn off for reading.
What experiences did you have as a writer in being friends with other writers? And with non-writer friends who read and like or not like, or even refuse to read your stories?
It's good to have other writer friends for feedback and for a listening ear.
How do you all deal with in-game "derailings" and curve balls? Do you let them dictate the plot, influence your plot, or do you ignore and proceed with your story?
Most curveballs get thrown right in! My Aliens Universe stories are full of them! I usually just throw them into the story.
do you all find that your reading perspective is different from when you write?
My reading perspective is more critical. I write the chapter first, and change small bits later because I read it back and think 'nah'.
The idea behind the “four doors” theory by Nancy Pearl is that there are four main things that people look for in what they read, and different people have different priorities.
Language
Character
Story
Setting
So what order would you put your doors in as a writer, and in which order as a reader? What do these doors mean to you?
Character- most important. No good plot can be saved by flat, boring characters.
Language- again, no good plot can be saved by a writing style that doesn't interest me.
Story
Setting- where it's set isn't all that important. A good story can exist in any setting, and over-world-building isn't always helpful.
While it's not exactly a question about the art of Sims storytelling, I do have a vaguely writing-related head-scratcher (or, rather, a series of them) to pose to you: Is it important for you to know the gender of an author if their pen-name is ambiguous? Or, do you ever find yourself curious about an author's gender in that same situation... to the point of outright asking them? And is asking them that question an 'acceptable' thing to do, or does it overstep the bounds of the author/reader relationship?
I am not bothered much by the gender of an author, nor would I ask them.
how much do you think about where to put your pictures (before/ after the text they belong to) or do they just seem to fit where you put them? Does it correspond with whether you first write or first screenshot?
I do screenshots first, text after. I make notes sometimes, so I don't forget the story context of a screenshot I've taken.
Do you challenge stereotypes and assumptions in your Sim-lit? If so, how? To clarify, do you challenge the stereotypes of the Sims world and/or characteristics of Sims or typical SimLit writing styles? On the flip side, do you think there's a time and place for stereotypes, and if so, when and where? Does your idea of stereotypes or challenging stereotypes change when you're a reader vs. a writer?
People that aren't part of the group they're stereotyping will defend stereotypes to the death! Yes, some people ARE like the real life stereotypes but they're tiresome and boring from a literary perspective and they don't show the true breadth of the experience of people in a group. I have seen some weird LGBT+ stereotypes out there written by straight or cis SimLit authors, and I don't get why it's so hard to do research before you write a character. See what things people from that group love and hate about the way they are portrayed. Reader or writer, it doesn't change anything.
I do challenge stereotypes of SimLit- the main one I do by intention is the way abuse is dealt with in my work. People DO NOT stand to put up with abusive people, abusive people are put in their place every time. I do not make my readers feel bad for the abusers, not at all. I do not like the way some SimLit writers deal with the subject at all, and I aim to challenge that, both for better writing and for the safety of my readers. People hyperfixate on fiction, some people get a lot of life lessons from what they read. If my readers identify with a character's awful experience or situation, I want to assure them that no, this is bad, you do not deserve to be treated this way. Whilst this isn't really challenging a stereotype. I've also challenged things like toxic masculinity as well, and how it affect people's lives, and also how men's mental health is important. If a male readers reads my stuff, I want him to know that he is allowed to have struggles and bad days, and that it can get better from there. Most chapters that deal with heavy themes, I link real life support websites and hotlines at the end.
what makes a GOOD writer?
Good is entirely subjective and almost meaningless, really. What's good for some is bad for others. I like a writer who:
- has interesting characters
- Does their research and is respectful about portrayals
- Shows terrible behaviour as being terrible, and not excusing absolutely heinous acts or pushing me to sympathise with a monster
- Does not think their writing is better than everyone else's
- When they have time, it's nice if they take time to respond to readers' replies and comments
The interesting things about stereotypes is that, a poorly executed stereotype can often be received better than a well-written break from tradition. Because of that it can be hard for people to branch out, but it's healthy to try, even if just to test yourself. Maybe we could look at writing a short-story from two points of view, one which plays on a particular stereotype, and the other which challenges that same stereotype?
People need to stop relying on stereotypes for a variety of reasons, and IMO, people need to ditch their assumptions if they're to become better writers.
when/how is writing hard for you, and what does it mean for it to be hard and how do you handle it?
I don't know much about a topic. I do research, then I come back to it.
I don't know how to progress. I take a break, I jot some ideas if I get them, then come back to it later on.
I sometimes ask a friend what they think, if it's not too spoiler-y to ask them.
How do you all write comedy in your SimLit? Does it come easily and naturally or do you struggle also?
It comes easily and naturally because I think I'm funnier than I actually am. XD A lot of my SimLit is intended to be mostly humorous in different ways.
When you're stuck in a corner with your SimLit writing, how do you find a way out?
A break is the best way to find a way out. Don't force yourself to write when you don't have it in your heart to do so.
Find me elsewhere:
My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
My Worldbuilding Blog
Simblr
My Sims Pinterest
@SnowBnuuy Thanks for posting your answers. I haven't read all of them yet, but your approach to Simlit is really interesting. I didn't know you were a console player - so many people use mods and poses with Simlit so it's nice to see a different approach.
@SnowBnuuy You answered all of them!
I think I'll answer them all eventually too, but probably give longer answers - and I feel like such a long list isn't that great to start discussion...?
If you open the spoilers, in the end I've always said a bit in response to your answer. Didn't feel like tagging you 500times, but you know... it's there
Edit: I answered the first bunch and then had to go annoying RL stuff, and besides, I was ready for a break
Second Edit: To everyone from the "One Month One World One Year"-Thread who got tagged and is confused where - I'm sorry to do such a mass-tag thing
--That's quite a preconception! Do you know why you thought that? But I'm glad you changed your mind.
If you did have any preconceptions, how did they affect your writing and reading?
Only later as I accumulated more “good stories” and, more importantly, saw them continually adjust their writing style to find what worked for them, including a bit of Sim-Creator-Banter, then just doing commentary for a bit, or wordless posts… that was when I started to find “my own voice”. Even if there are still many similarities
Are there any stories in particular that made you realize that Sims stories could be more than what you thought they could be?
How does the game influence your work?
I've always been hooked on Sims, but was never allowed to buy it until High School graduation. (Okay...by that point I figured I was old enough to not ask when spending 10bucks of my own money on a video game. I'm probably still not allowed to.) I watched Sims Let's Plays, and they took these characters and made stories out of it - but like me as a kid, like "and now she does that but Sims is Sims so we have to imagine it..." Aside from me not wanting to start a YouTube channel just for stories, and not having the game, this was still not what I wanted. I wanted to *make* the story real, not tell everyone what happened in the story and tell them to imagine it. And that's how I came to actual SimLit. Stories paired with screenshots and the game...but real stories.
So to come back to the question, I still try to find "my style". I once read about Sims in some stories being characters, just the people the story is about, and in others they are actors and tell a specific story. For me the story is definitely about their lives. What happens in my play-sessions is the story - in raw form. Some things may be missing, others I choose to ignore - but the story lies in the game and in the Sims. Through writing, I polish it. It's always a struggle. The story being in the game, with sentiments and emotions and attractiveness (mods!) and just the expressiveness of the characters. But at the same time, I want to push the limits of the game, include stuff that's not possible in game (or just that I don't have, like one Sim wanting to be a DJ...) As I only have Seasons, Parenthood and Laundry Day, it's difficult for me to distinguish Sims' characters and give them all unique hobbies and personalities with the vanilla game only.
--I felt like you said that very well, about the game's structure inspiring your story. Very cool too how you said the challenge you play provides a framework and ideas! I love that about challenges (even though I ripped the insides of mine out, but well, the thought is still there
What kind of relationship (or whatever you want to call it) is there between the text and pictures in your Sims stories? And yes, you can answer this even if there is no text or no pics in your story as well. That's a relationship too.
--so for you the story is in the writing, and the screenshots are just illustration? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the "Sims as actors or characters" subject then, as it's so different from how I write...
Can any of you relate to this - starting out without clear direction and ending up with a much deeper story than you intended when you're writing your Sims stories?
The latter especially has started to creep in more and more. I don't feel comfortable writing about things I don't know much about, like what it means to be really poor. Or bullied. Or part of the LGBTQ community. etc etc. Especially since they are super important to me, I want to do them justice, and if I can't feel like I can I'd rather completely leave them out. But slowly I've started to touch on those issues and it's an exciting journey!
--lol, that's quite a difference!
What is good chapter length to keep readers reading?
--I had to laugh at that answer. I guess so! So do you think about the readers at all when considering to split up a post, or to lengthen/shorten it? Or do you go "eh, everyone's different anyway?"
What do you think about rewriting?
I think at least the format I will try to straighten up. Every Chapter a heading... For the actual story, I think I’ll have to leave it. It won’t be easy, but you know, red-cons 15 years later ingame? This is how the story happened, and I feel like I shouldn’t try to change it. Still. I would like it better if the beginning wasn’t so *bad*...
I hope this thread gets active again 'cause this one is one I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on!!!
--Thank you for your words on "rebooting". I guess you're right. Still, it stinks to see the beginning of this story like that, as I want it to be as awesome as I can make it. Oh well, done's done... right?
time zone: Berlin, Germany - EA Gallery ID: Noctuara
@SnowBnuuy I was going to comment on that later, but - I couldn't imagine. Then again I only have 3 packs so far, so my choice of activities, hairs, clothes etc is... limited.
time zone: Berlin, Germany - EA Gallery ID: Noctuara
Ohh okay I get it now : p I’ll write up a serious answer later! I’ll read yours later. Yeah some answers are short because I wrote it just before bed and had to rush, so I plan to expand on some of them later on!
. My introduction to SimLit I remember wasn’t actually TS4 like I said, it was TS2 stories. It was a long time ago but I forgot the story. I remember the first time I read it, I thought it was amazing but the second time I read it a lot of stuff wasn’t handled well and it wasn’t as good as I remembered. I remember there being a lot of very thin drama type stories for TS4 roughly after it came out, which I had little interest in and it was someone’s narrative legacy which got me into writing SimLit, I loved how every gen was different and had their own story. Then I learned not to be narrow minded about SimLit!
. Commentaries with Sim/Creator banter are brilliant. I don’t really read commentary stories anymore but I’ve read some before that have been hilarious, especially the fourth wall breaks between the sim and the author. I think both commentary and narrative stories can both be great.
. I have a few favourite stories, most of which are currently on break but a handful of my favourite authors at the moment are _sims_yimi, @SnuffyBucket and @FeroshaCoutura for various reasons.
. All of my work used to be based on the challenge I was playing at the time but in May I wrote my first narrative only SimLit, The Sun and her Fire, which so far is my post popular one out of all the stories with readers. It’s a prequel. Morgyn Ember was only a side character in Untamed but I realised I had a lot of set up and wrote a story on their journey to becoming Sage and such. One of my readers said she preferred my narrative SimLit since it’s not restricted by the challenge aspect and I agree.
. I think sims as characters and sims as actors probably depends on how much you let gameplay drive the story. Most of my work is gameplay driven in some sense, so I do see them moreso as characters than actors. Their own actions in game partially shape how they turn out in story.
. Whether or not I split up a post depends on how long it is, my chapters aren’t really that long so it’s rare I split up a chapter into multiple parts. Most of my stories are pretty short overall.
. It’s no worry ^u^ It’s up to the individual whether or not a reboot is the right thing to do. Sometimes it definitely is worth it, other times it’s better to just finish the story and then know what to change in future writing.
One reaction while I'm on study break, and perhaps more later:
I went re-reading after I wrote that, and realized that what bothers me most is the changes in point of view, writing style and in narrative. Originally I set up as Diary, then had an E-Mail in between, some posts are more "external narrator" than diary. It's just not consistent. As a writer I like that because that means that I wasn't (and am not) afraid to experiment with what style works best for me and for my story, instead of sticking with something I don't like and eventually losing interest. But at the same time, if you don't just see the improvement in writing skills but the story as a whole, it does look... jarring. But re-writing all of that would be monumental, and probably stop all new chapters, and eh. I think I can't. Still. I want to write a good story, and I feel like because of all these changes (and even more changes as I continue to search for the way writing works for me) it's not going too well as a whole.
time zone: Berlin, Germany - EA Gallery ID: Noctuara
It enhances it in one area and hampers it in another. The visual aspects of screenshots is great to show what you can’t tell, but the game also has an absolute limit in what is possible for me to do. I really have to watch myself to make sure that I don’t write something I can’t take pictures for.
What kind of relationship (or whatever you want to call it) is there between the text and pictures in your Sims stories? And yes, you can answer this even if there is no text or no pics in your story as well. That's a relationship too.
I use the pictures to enhance my storytelling, and rely on visuals to show what I don’t write in narration. They’re very important to my stories. I do have some wordless chapters in store, but in general, the text is not enough without the pictures and vice versa.
Out of curiosity, do you use a lot of mods, poses, and/or cc in your stories (i.e. a combination, only 1, or none)? How do they affect your stories and your gameplay? Is it important to your storytelling, or could you tell your stories without them? Why do you use it?
My game is absolutely riddled with CC. The story couldn’t exist without it, because there is no Medieval pack for TS4. 😅
Are your Sims Stories read by people you know offline? How do you feel about it?
They are not. I’ve shared it with family and friends a couple of times, but reading simlit is just not their cup of tea. I’m all right with that. To each their preference. 😊
Does other people's work ever make you feel insecure about yours? If so, how do you handle that feeling?
All the time. Part of being a writer is constantly thinking about how you could improve, and the easiest way to see where you are lacking is to see how other people write. But it’s also very easy to get lost in comparing yourself to others and feeling inferior as a result. In my case, I try to remember that you get better with every word that you put on paper (or in a word document 😂) and that it’s as much about the journey as the destination. Nobody is born a master writer. Some people are naturally talented, and some people are not. But we all get better with practice
How do you keep all the characters straight? (Intended meaning: How do you manage large casts of characters? But I’m sure the other interpretation is fun to answer as well
This question 🤣 I’ll answer the intended meaning, haha. I have main characters, support characters and background. Background doesn’t matter, but I make sure that there’s at least two character traits in every main or support character that are different. If they overlap too much, one of them has to change. It doesn’t always work perfectly, but I haven’t run into the problem yet of accidental carbon copy characters.
Do you avoid multiple perspectives and stick to single POV? Do you write with large ensembles of characters?
Single POV does not work with my story. Generally I have 4 different perspectives, with more coming in if the supporting characters become more important to the plot arc. My cast currently has lemme count… at least 15 characters that are important to the plot. This wasn’t done all at once though – all of them were introduced gradually, so people could get to know them one by one.
How often do you post? How much is too much? What is your personal preference for reading new SimLit posts?
Once a week, if I can manage. Taking screenshots, editing and writing the text takes a long time for me. 1 a week is the maximum that I can manage. 😅 I like weekly posts as a reader, too. Twice a week feels like much, and daily I simply can’t keep up with.
Do you ever struggle with how to feel about POSITIVE feedback/praise?
Yes. I’m used to negativity or indifference, and on some days, my head is dead-set on disregarding praise and thinking it’s just people being polite. On the other hand, negative feedback stays in my head for weeks. It’s a work-in-progress. 😆
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators, or Trusted Advisors? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
I love hearing from readers. I’m not good with direct praise, but seeing someone really get into the story and start speculating on what will happen next, or trying to guess at secrets makes my entire day. I don’t think a reader should be able to dictate what you need to write, though. They can come with advice, but the writer is not obligated to use it. The worst thing in my opinion that could happen is that a writer changes their story so much at other people’s whims that it no longer feels as their story.
Plus, most people (and I mean this in the best way) are not professional critics. The people who know how to give valuable criticism and feedback generally give it only when needed. This question reminds me of a quote I read somewhere – the average person is great at telling you if they like something, less good at explaining why, and terrible at predicting what they would like in the future.
How did you start writing? How did your writing develop?
I’ve been writing since I was very young. Storytelling came naturally to me, although I was very, very bad at it in the beginning. My stories matured with me and gradually got better as I practiced.
Do you guys think there is any difference at all in quality between a beginner and a master, and do you think there is any point in trying to improve? Or could I get an art gallery to take a piece of paper I scribbled on when I was two because hey, there's no qualitative difference between that and a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh?
People seem to forget that Rembrandt and Van Gogh did not start out with the skills that they had by the end. You can be incredibly talented or complete potatoes at something. An argument could be made for the talented one to have an advantage – but if you don’t try, and practice, and fail, and see what works, you’ll never get better. The beginner should never be discouraged to try just because they are not good at something yet. That is how you destroy a future artist.
How important is it to you that you understand what's going on? Are you able to go along with a story where sometimes you get jargon thrown at you that isn't explained right away?
I like stories that don’t hand me the answers on a silver platter. Plotlines with secrets, that give hints and gradually unfold what’s really going on are fantastic. I enjoy analysing story points and characters both. I don’t like finding jargon that I don’t understand, though. If it’s words that are beyond my vocabulary (am not a native speaker) then I can look it up. But if it’s concepts, lore, world history, worldbuilding details or past events that aren’t explained (and aren't presented as a secret to uncover), then I generally lose interest.
Cat on hands. Arms tingly. Will continue later. 🤭
To everyone: I feel a bit weird now, since I just came here and said "I wish people were here", I didn't make this! In the same way, since everyone starts to answer the long list of questions I collected, I feel the need to say - the original thought of this thread was that someone would ask a question about SimLit writing and then everyone would share their thoughts, and then there was the next. I discovered this and found that I wanted to answer all the asked questions (or at least really many) for myself to find out more about my SimLit writing, so I thought "well I guess I can just copy-paste them into Google Doc as I read through... Then people started answering to my post and I shared that "list". But you aren't required to go through and think about all these questions at all. You could bring a new one or whatever
Yes! For example I have always wanted to make a surfer sim, or a rider, a cheerleader, a traveller... and (with my packs at least) that would just be shooting my own knee. (Hope people can understand that as I'm not a native speaker either.)
You worded that really well! Thank you for expressing what I thought too
That's a great thought that I'll try to remember! Thank you. It helped me to hear that.
Well... it was plucked out of a whole paragraph about that topic, that made it easy to misunderstand, so I added the stuff in brackets
I will be sure to remember that about the differing traits, I feel like I totally neglected that! In general my characters had too few friends and interactions, so they felt incomplete. But right now I'm trying to change that, and that time for "gradual introduction" is what I'm missing. I neglected to develop the older kids and have them have friends and all that because I tried to focus on all kids all the time. But whether adding 6 new families of character on one go to "catch up" is right? I don't know either
Must keep thinking. Perhaps one whole chapter with only one character? Get them out of the house, show their life, friends, hobbies, as a "catch-up" after the break? What do you think?
Aw, yeah. But that quote is awesome
LOL! I feel that
time zone: Berlin, Germany - EA Gallery ID: Noctuara
And yeah I had a feeling it was like that, but I wanted to answer all of the questions anyway. I don’t expect people to reply to all of my answers of course, that’d take forever. I either do textwalls or one line posts. There is no inbetween xD
I enjoyed reading everyone's answers so far. There's lots to think about.
I think my approach is similar to that of @miss_eulenauge. In short, my sims are characters, not actors, and my story is gameplay-centered. With my approach, I'm more of a journalist or historian than a director or producer. I play the game while taking an obscene amount of screenshots and focusing on details. I treat the screenshots almost as evidence of what happened. Then, I put a narrative together based on the evidence I've gathered, which includes not just the screenshots but my knowledge of my sims' personalities, traits, personal histories, etc. In order for this to work, there has to be a little lag between when I play and when I put together a chapter. It's hard to understand the significance of past actions without knowing something of the present.
In short, my process is play, take screenshots, outline basic events, and then write a little bit or so per event after having played some more. I only play with one household because I'm really slow with my playing and it's too difficult for me to maintain storylines about a ton of unique characters when time passes so quickly in game.
This is just something fun for me to do and so even though I try to keep things concise, sometimes my writing is really self-indulgent. So, honestly, sometimes I think that if people don't read, hopefully they can at least enjoy the pictures.
Probably not, since I consciously do the opposite (push it lighter). I don't want to write something miserable and I think that's what would happen if I kept digging because I already have an intense personality and the game itself is naturally callous about a lot of things. I don't mean that I want to write something shallow, but that my natural tendency is too much, too deep, and too difficult so I'm trying to be more reasonable.
I don't know.
I always consider my audience and I care what they think. I love engagement. It's helpful and fun, but at the same time, readers are absolutely not customers. My story is mine and I'm going to do what I want because it's mine.
There are huge differences in quality between beginners and masters, and random scribbles don't belong in any museum next to the work of one of the post-Impressionist painters (unless it's some kind of special modern art exhibit about comparison or something), but that's not a problem. This sounds awful, but I don't think it's productive to focus on "quality" because that doesn't mean anything. Quality to whom and in what context? I think it's best to do what you can and move on while critically assessing your actions and remembering that it's not that serious. I don't think it's shameful to be a bad writer.
I have learned why it makes me feel so stressed to add all these new people to my story so suddenly, and what I could do to make it better (except starting to care about my kids' friends earlier next time). I have learned that I feel disconnected to my Sims, mainly because I played under a very careful schedule of SimTime and because I staged so much, and that I want to reconnect with these Sims and really get to know them. Their wishes, desires, what they're like, what their expressions, emotions and voices are.
I want to spend 1-2 SimDays with each character individually and just explore their lives and personalities - give them a free will, look at their firends the slow way instead of the "they are best friends, cheat, check - next friend" way... Stuff I haven't done since god-knows-when.
Oh well. Guess I'm really gonna do that crazy thing. So next I have to figure out how and when I can do that - listen to them, and show their personalities to the audience. Even if 8 unplanned interludes (which means the normal story resuming in November at the earliest) weren't exactly what I expected from my reflections.
Anyways, thank you so much! I'll be sure to be back with reactions to your answers and with more answers of my own.
...and now I need to go to bed because I had only 4h sleep and need to get up for work in 6. Crap.
Sleep well everyone and happy timezones!
time zone: Berlin, Germany - EA Gallery ID: Noctuara
Must keep thinking. Perhaps one whole chapter with only one character? Get them out of the house, show their life, friends, hobbies, as a "catch-up" after the break? What do you think?
Hmm… I don’t know your characters, but giving the most important ones some extra screentime to flesh them out a bit can’t hurt! You could give them all one “thing” that they’re dealing with or focusing on, so that it’s easier for the reader to tell them apart too. What are they doing in life? Like A is working to be a baker, B just got a dog, C is having romance troubles, and so forth. Would that work?
*edit: Haha, I see that you’re planning to do that already. Let us know how it goes!
Everyone has a different approach to SimLit so I don't have a yardstick to measure them against. I have my way of doing things, which is dramatic prose with plenty of dialogue, but others like to approach it from a reportage or descriptive way that doesn't involve dialogue. I fell into writing SimLit as an experiment so I didn't come along thinking "aha! I've cracked it!" or "I'll show them how it's done". What I do is my own thing.
Are there any stories in particular that made you realize that Sims stories could be more than what you thought they could be?
I discovered SimLit by accident. I tried my hand at making short animated Machinima films but that is very time consuming but I am by nature a storyteller so I wanted to do that but without the hassle of filming, editing, sound editing and uploading a 5 minute film that took a week to do! I was looking around the Sims Forums and discovered the "challenge" page, discovered that people were actually writing short (or long) stories that were derived from their game play and thought I'd give it a go myself. I read a few stories to see how others were approaching it but I can't say one was outstanding in a way that inspired me like no other: I read some very good SimLit but there isn't one that I based my own work off.
How does the game influence your work?
Without the game I couldn't write SimLit, it's that simple. It not only gives me a visual aspect with the screen caps which I can share with the readers but it also drives the story to a large extent. In the early days of Sim 66 I played the game as normal and wrote up the day's events as a chapter in a story but now I steer the interactions and actions of the characters to keep the story flowing. There's this strange thing where I sense the game is predicting what I need for the story! There's been a fair few times I've thought "what would be great at this point is X showing up or this thing to happen" and lo and behold, it does and without me prompting things! Uncanny.
What kind of relationship (or whatever you want to call it) is there between the text and pictures in your Sims stories? And yes, you can answer this even if there is no text or no pics in your story as well. That's a relationship too.
I'm a firm believer that the pictures and the text should go hand in hand when it comes to SimLit. I know of one writer who thinks the gameplay and pictures are mostly irrelevant to their story but I believe the opposite. As my game is set in the 1960s it's important to give the readers a visual representation of that time plus also it's a way of showing off the characters, the fantastic cc I've amassed for the game and giving a sense of what's going on. A picture of the scene means I can dispense with a lot of descriptive writing of what someone looks like, or what they're wearing or what place they're in so I can concentrate on the action, dialogue and motivations of the characters. I don't write a comic book, although I've seen SimLit written as a glossy comic with screencaps done in the graphic novel style and they're really impressive. I'm not that artistic though; I'm more a photographer who writes than a graphic illustrator who writes, so to speak.
"Can any of you relate to this - starting out without clear direction and ending up with a much deeper story than you intended when you're writing your Sims stories?
Oh absolutely! Sim 66 began as a story about this square guy trying to fit in with the Swinging Sixties and it's ended up with subplots involving political conspiracies, borderline sci-fi mysteries, criminal activity, social commentary, free love, romance and melodrama. As things have progressed I have even more ideas to cover war, teenage angst, espionage and even have one of the regular characters with a strange hobby which he has to keep a secret from everyone.
What is good chapter length to keep readers reading?
The chapters are as long as they need to be. In Sim 66 they tend to represent one day of one particular household. Sometimes I've combined days of two separate characters if the actions of one mirror or somehow affect the actions of another and I want to juxtapose them.
What do you think about re-writing?
That's down to the individual authors. I edit and re-read as I'm writing the chapter but once I hit the "publish" button, that's it. I will correct spelling mistakes if I see them after publication but I never re-write the work itself. I'm not seeking perfection with my story and I think the early chapters, brief and not as flowing as the later ones, show how things have developed over time.
Have there been certain types of legacy challenges that turned out well for you and/or you're still using them? What does and doesn't work for you?
I've never done any challenges. I've often thought about it but I like standard gameplay. At one time I had 4 different games going: A standard legacy game, a rotational game in a retro-futuristic setting, a weird experimental one where I gender swapped everyone to see what would happen and the game that became Sim 66. Sim 66 occupies so much of my Sims 4 gaming time that I don't have time to play the others so they're on hold. Sim 66 is a variation of the Decades Challenge but set in one half of one decade and with the aging switched off.
Out of curiosity, do you use a lot of mods, poses, and/or cc in your stories (i.e. a combination, only 1, or none)? How do they affect your stories and your gameplay? Is it important to your storytelling, or could you tell your stories without them? Why do you use it?
Definitely. Sim 66 couldn't exist in its setting without Sixties era cc. I don't use gameplay or pose mods, only custom content clothing and furnishings. One of the biggest pieces of feedback I get from the readers is that they love the fashions the characters wear, especially the Mod "dolly bird" Suzy. It helps the readers visualise the characters but it helps me as well as I build the character. I spend a lot of time doing makeovers for townies and created characters and do a LOT of research: As well as movies, TV shows and some books from that era I have a Pinterest folder with around...get this...1500 images of Sixties fashion and home furnishings. Every outfit you see someone wearing in the story is based on a real image from the 1960s.
Are your Sims Stories read by people you know offline? How do you feel about it?
No and I prefer it that way. I'm like one of those old Victorian writers who write under a pen name because they're a woman and if their husbands knew they were writing bodice ripping melodramas there would be scandal. I'm not a woman, by the way, but I want my SimLit to be something purely to be enjoyed by strangers. I actually write and produce stuff under my real name and in a different format so my offline friends can see that body of work somewhere else and you guys in the Sims 4 community can read my other stuff which is purely for consumption by Sims fans. I don't know, maybe I DO know one of you in real life but we haven't cottoned on yet?
Does other people's work ever make you feel insecure about yours? If so, how do you handle that feeling?
Those SimLit writers who produce stories like they're graphic novels...such talent, energy and time devoted to make a Sims 4 game look and read like something from Kurt Busiek or Frank Miller...I'm in awe of that. There's some writers who I think are bang on the money as storytellers but I don't feel insecure about their work when compared with mine as I'm doing something that isn't like theirs. Maybe if someone came along and did a 1960s set story as a Sims 4 graphic novel and did it better then I would feel more insecure but right now I've kind of cornered a little market of my own so I don't feel like anyone's breathing down my neck. I know my limitations as well; I don't write supernatural or romance stories so I admire those who write that kind of thing well but as I don't do what they're doing I don't feel insecure by comparison.
How do you keep all the characters straight?
I'm not sure what is meant by straight in this context. If you mean how do I keep them consistent and remembering all the subplots they're involved in then I'd say it's getting more difficult as Sim 66 progresses. I'm now at the stage where I have to re-read certain chapters to see I'm not introducing some new bit of information that contradicts a previous one. I did consider keeping a journal where I list all the characters, have extensive biographies and the plots they're involved in but that makes the writing process even more convoluted so I keep it all in my head and refer to previous chapters on occasion.
How do you develop your (side) characters? Do you write backstory that you don't include in your main story?
Yes, totally. What you see in Sim 66 is the tip of the iceberg. Sometimes I'll play out a day in the life of a side character and incorporate what happens into the main story that I write, not as a major plot point, but as background for another chapter. The main one for that is my Hugh Hefner inspired character, Alan Cuffe. He's not a main character but his actions influence a lot of what goes on in the story so I play out some days with him and see if it can be incorporated into the story. Sometimes, and this applies to Julia Epstein and the Sneedleys, they begin as side characters who got promoted to main characters.
do you avoid multiple perspectives and stick to single POV?
The opposite. Every chapter is from someone's point of view as this is a rotational story...or a soap opera if you will. This is going to sound pretentious but when I write a chapter from that character's point of view I adopt the speech pattern of them and I think like them as well. For example Detective John Action: When I write from his perspective he sounds decisive, focussed, alert and sharp. When he's a guest character in someone else's chapter they often see him as volatile and intimidating. The next characters I'm going to introduce will take this one step further because, for the first time, I'm going to write a chapter in the form of a first person inner voice.
Do you write with large ensembles of characters?
Goodness me, yes!
How often do you post? How much is too much? What is your personal preference for reading new SimLit posts?
Oh I'm a total hack! I think I average between 5-7 chapters a month. Is that too much? I don't know, that's up to the readers to decide. I'm having fun...a lot of fun...writing Sim 66 and I don't want to stop. As for reading other works? I always find the time to read about 6-8 of other people's work. Each day you might get one or two new uploads from the ones I follow which is manageable.
Do you ever struggle with how to feel about POSITIVE feedback/praise?
I learned a valuable lesson years ago: If you write, write for yourself and don't fret about the number of readers you get. When I began Sim 66 I didn't get any feedback at all and I didn't know how many readers I had: Maybe they were all bots? But I was having great fun writing it so I took the attitude that I would keep writing and publishing and pretty soon people on the forums would think "you know, there's that Sim 66 story again. What's that all about? I think I might check it out". And that's exactly what's happened! I have about a core of 10 or so regular readers who give me feedback and it's all been good. Some are hooked on it and I like that, it inspires me to raise my game. I've got people who specialise in creating lots who read Sim 66 and when I put in a request for some Sixties era building a couple of them are quick to volunteer because they want to contribute to the look of the story and that, for me, is the highest praise.
If you have several stories in the works, do you post them in separate blogs or the same blog? Why?
I only write Sim 66 but I've toyed with the idea of writing something else. I think I'd like to revisit the retro-futuristic game as SimLit, or do a legacy challenge but write it up as a story instead of writing a report on gameplay...even that gender role reversal idea could be nifty but I know that's a hot button topic these days and would hate to get it wrong and get into trouble! So for now it's just Sim 66 and I will cross that bridge of other stories if and when I get to it.
How do you guys look at your readers? What sort of relationship do you want with them or expect to have? Do you think of them as customers who are always right and you're there to supply their needs? Do you think of them as co-creators, or Trusted Advisors? Do you think of them as an admiring audience? Do you think of them at all?
I genuinely like my readers, well the ones who've given me feedback so far: They seem like nice people. There's probably a wide range of ages between us, our politics and faith might diverge and I know that we are from at least 4 different countries. One of my readers is married with children, others I suspect are teenagers or university student age. That's why I like a certain amount of anonymity: We can form opinions of each other based purely on the way we interact. Like I said before, I write for myself first and my first duty is to make sure the story makes sense, the characters are relatable or enjoyable and the prose flows. I especially like it when my readers speculate on what's going on or what's going to happen and I sit there thinking how correct or off track their guesses are. I have incorporated some feedback: A lot of readers like my character, Julia...she's been a real breakout character...so I'm aware that when I write her chapters I don't let the readers down by getting her to do something inconsistent because it might seem like a fun idea at the time.
What is your planning process for your story?
I consider what's gone on in previous chapters and then play the game. I might have the Sims play out a day or I might have them do things that tag on to a previous chapter. As I'm playing and screen capping images I make a note of what's happened and how I'm going to write that up...that's all a mental process, I don't write it down on a notepad. Then after I've done 24 hours of in-game play I begin to write the story and collate the images.
Discuss your thoughts/philosophies on writing unlikable characters. Especially unlikable/highly flawed protagonists.
So when Sim 66 began I had these characters who were all neighbours living in Foundry Cove and, despite their different characters and attitudes, they were all nice people and good friends of each other. But drama requires conflict and I looked at a few things where I could introduce that: The Landgraabs made for great villains based purely on their official backstory so I ran with that; extrapolated and incorporated it. Then I created the Sneedleys, a dour and snobby couple who were against other people having fun. Finally, and I don't consider him a villain, there's Alan Cuffe who is based on Hugh Hefner and the Kitten Club, which is based on the Playboy Club and Playboy Bunnies. I designed Cuffe deliberately to not conform to the hero/villain dichotomy. He's a champion of free speech, he's loyal to his friends, he promotes talented people and he doesn't demand things with strings attached yet he's a bed hopping lothario, he objectifies women and he cares little for people who don't share his vision so you get different sides to him which you can support or dislike. There's an old adage: A villain doesn't see themselves as a villain, they see themselves as the hero in their own story. An unlikeable character has their own motivations and reasons for doing things and I write them doing just that: They're not evil for evil's sake or, worse, because the story demands they do something evil.
How did you start writing? How did your writing develop?
I know I said I liked a certain amount of anonymity but I'll let you all in on something: I'm a professional writer! I write articles for magazines, write a lot about film and TV history for various websites and have written film scripts. I won't say any more on the subject of my real life work. SimLit is different; it's a kind of busman's holiday. It helps me to hone some skills but it also allows me to try things I can't do in my work: A breezy, game play based story set in a fascinating time in history. I love writing and an hour a day spent writing Sim 66 is fun and relaxing because I'm not getting paid and I don't have an editor or commissioning producer breathing down my neck. It's pure writing without interference.
Do you guys think there is any difference at all in quality between a beginner and a master, and do you think there is any point in trying to improve? Or could I get an art gallery to take a piece of paper I scribbled on when I was two because hey, there's no qualitative difference between that and a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh?
Look, my advice is just write and write for yourself and for fun. The more you do that the better you'll get. And read. Read a lot...not just SimLit, read a lot in general, it all helps.
How do you people see your own text when you read it? How is the experience different compared to reading someone else's work?
I hope people read the text and the character's dialogue and imagine what they sound like...have a "voice" for each one. I know I write them that way: Action has a deep, smooth voice, Julia kind of a squeaky one. I do the same when I read someone else's work. The best writers write dialogue in such a way you can hear them speak...not so much in terms of the quality of their voices but in terms of cadence.
How does the Get together expand the horizons of storytelling and change the way SimLit works for you?
All the game packs add something, if only just for the settings, CAS and furnishings. Get Together brought in some good new premades and the clubs made certain things in Sim 66 possible, namely the Kitten Club and the League of Decency. As a story set in the 1960s discos and dancing are important so I've been able to use a lot of nightclub settings with bright lights and dance floors thanks to Get Together. But the pack that has done the most for the story by far is Get To Work.
Do you have a place or a situation where you plan or get ideas for your stories the best?
Watching old movies and TV shows from the 1960s. I've put in a number of references in Sim 66 so far and I wonder if anyone's spotted them yet.
Have you ever felt 'weird' or 'wrong' when writing your story, but you weren't sure whether the chapter was out of place or if you felt that way because you were out of your comfort zone?
Not much, I sometimes think I might fixate on the fashion side of things too much but this is the 1960s we're talking about! There was a genuine fashion revolution and I can't overstate that enough so if I mention such and such wears a mini skirt, go-go boots or brightly coloured tights then that's because those things were a big deal back then whereas I don't think fashion is talked about in the same way today: All those things I've mentioned are mainstream, accepted and been around so long as to not be commented on these days. Some readers might not get that and think I've got some weird fixation on the way people dress but you should read the magazine articles of those times to understand.
Now recently a reader commented on whether I would be addressing racism, sexism, the Vietnam war and other social issues. Those things run the risk of offending others so you have to treat those subjects with respect. We live in an age where if you get it wrong as a writer you don't just get negative criticism, you could lose your access to forums, your blog site and social media accounts. But do I avoid them? Well, no, and I don't want to but it does mean I have to take extra care and attention. My rule is that those issues must serve the story, not dominate them. I can think of a lot of recent shows and movies where the social commentary is laid on so thick it beats the viewer over the head. Like classic Star Trek, I want to weave issues into the story seamlessly. I know there's plenty of issues I could cover but haven't yet, like gay relationships or teen angst or infidelity but that doesn't mean I won't ever cover them...there's so much going on in the story right now I don't have the time to incorporate them! One thing I do want to do, which could be controversial, is have a cross-dresser character. Don't ask me why I want to have that, it's part of a bigger plot. But I won't treat the subject with disrespect.
For those of you who have had "woohoo" moments come up, any advice?
By far the trickiest part of writing the story. Up until now I've tended to focus on the build up, then they hop into bed (or closet) and I end with a screen cap of the lump in the bed, steam and floating hearts and that's that. There have been times when I've written something more...shall we say...detailed but I then delete it because I don't write that kind of fiction. I've yet to find the right balance between good taste and graphic detail.
is it worth including this [adult] kind of content and risk scaring readers away or should I not worry about it... or should I even be putting stuff out there that younger readers shouldn't really be reading?
Good question. Sim 66 is 12+ in rating. I considered making it more graphic when I shifted the story from The Sims Forums to Blogger but I'm happy writing it for young teens and above; it suits my style.
Do you know Pixar’s 22 rules of Storytelling? What are your thoughts about them?
No, my guide is John Truby's The Anatomy of Story.
for your SimLit blogs, do you have your latest posts on your homepage or a specific homepage? Right now I have a specific homepage, but I'm wondering about the benefits of having readers click right to your latest posts, or the downsides of this. Thoughts?
For blogger the latest chapter always shows up first. I promote Sim 66 on these forums, the Sims of History and Sim Lit Society Discord boards and I'm hoping the SimLit directory lists it soon. Any other SimLit websites people can recommend then do let me know. Blogger is easy to navigate for readers.
Do you ever want to switch things up a bit and try something new? Play another character in town? How do you keep things interesting?
The rotational nature of Sim 66 keeps it fresh for me: It'll be Jeremy Saint one chapter, then John Action, Suzy Kent, The Sneedleys and the rest on others. All with their own stories and perspectives. Soon I'll be introducing a new character who will narrate his day in the first person, the first time I've tried that.
what's your favorite season in The Sims and why? Does the season affect your storytelling and how?
There's only one season in Sim 66 as I don't have Seasons. It's low down on my to-buy list. If I did have it I'd say Autumn/Fall would be my favourite.
How do you prepare your chapters? Do your rough drafts look already extensive and detailed, or are they mere jot notes? Do you even prepare anything in advance, or do you just jump right in and write/take pictures according to what's fresh in your imagination?
Once I've played a day in the game I note what's happened, look at the screen caps and work out where they'll appear. Then I just write; it takes me 3-5 days to complete a chapter writing on average between 1-2 hours a day. Not always consecutive hours and days, mind.
When you're reading a story what kind of "hook" is effective. Will an exciting scene draw you in and make you want to know about the story and characters, or do you prefer a chance to know the character before you'll care about the "drama".
The opening sentence or exchange is crucial. Get me hooked in the first 3 lines. And end with the promise of more, make me eager to wait for the next instalment.
In regards to monsters, are you more willing to take the word of the characters that these things are terrible and terrifying (even if you don't see them hurt anybody) or do you need to see it with your own eyes before you'll believe it?
Monsters represent a primeval fear deep within the mind so they reflect that. When that fear is dispelled, they no longer become monsters. In Sims 4 terms those things are represented by the ghosts and aliens. Until we know what they are and what they represent, they are treated as things to fear because they're the unknown, the chaotic, the disruptive. If, and when, they are proven to be benign they are incorporated into the known, everyday world.
How important is it to you that you understand what's going on? Are you able to go along with a story where sometimes you get jargon thrown at you that isn't explained right away?
In real life people use jargon as a way of using a kind of language that represents group membership: Use these terms to show you're "in" with a certain crowd. I don't like that sort of thing...and if I'm reading a story I want the jargon to be a reflection of who that character is but I don't want the writer to use that objectively in their own voice and not the characters'. For example if you ever read the novel "A Clockwork Orange" that's written entirely in futuristic slang; hard going at first but it does give a sense of the characters.
How often do you publish posts? How much is too much?
As soon as I finish a chapter I publish it... I can't wait to the next day or the day after. I was aware that this summer, for a few weeks, I was the only writer posting new chapter links in the Writer's Lounge. I don't blame people if they got sick of me after a while!
I let songs guide my stories. Anyone else does that? I'd like to hear what yours were
A big part of Sim 66 is the soundtrack that goes with it. I put in links to songs from the Sixties at various points in the chapter. Most of it is diegetic: A character walks into a nightclub and I'll have a particular song playing which the reader can listen to as they read.
Have you written about the diversity/inclusion/racial tension issue in your Sims stories and how have you addressed it? If you haven't, is this something you would consider talking about in a story and if so, how? If not, that's okay, but have you read other stories that address the topics and how do you think other authors have handled the hot button issues?
I care most about characters as individuals and personalities and less about their immutable characteristics. I know this is a really hot button issue right now but I don't write to check boxes. One thing I did do when researching the Sixties was to look at the demographic breakdown of the United States as it was at that time. I adjusted the population of my game to fit those historic statistics so a lot of game generated Arabian, North African or Indian characters were dropped and more black, Hispanic and East Asian characters introduced because that's more historical.
Now with that said the racial tensions in the Sixties were profound, but how to best depict that? I hope my readership will trust me on that one when I come to address it. As for gay characters, they've not featured heavily yet...one supporting character is bisexual...but they will. But it will be done in a proper historic context and not through a modern prism.
Do you guys run with all your story ideas, or do you sit on some of them?
I queue up all my story ideas.
Do you guys ever feel like this with your work? Like just lost and not sure if it has any point or is any good or if it's worth anything at all?
I started Sim 66 with little or no expectations and everything's been up since then.
Do you outline way far out ahead, just a chapter at a time, or never outline and just play? If you do outline in advance, do you play gameshots out of order of the actual story you're writing?
A bit of both. I'm not writing something like Babylon 5 with this massive 5 year story arc. I think about how the next chapter will tag on to what went previously and there's some longer term story ideas. I want to send a character to Vietnam, for example. How I'm going to manage that has yet to be worked out. But those longer term ideas will be shaped and modified by what happens in the short term. And yes, screen caps are sometimes, but not most of the time, depicted out of order.
Do you think you're decent at writing? If so, when did you realize that? If not, when will you know?
I've always been good at writing dialogue, I'm not sure I can write prose to the same standard. I'm growing as a writer and I'm hoping it will help my professional work.
For those of you who do share your stories with people you know personally (family and friends), how did you start? Do you typically get positive feedback? If not, how do you handle constructive criticism? Any advice? For those of you who have done world-building for their stories what's it like to work within the limits of the game?
I don't share my story with people I know. World building is very important to me...when I did the retro-futuristic game I decided on how the buildings would look, what people wore and what the future timeline involved. I had a specific design ethos on that one and the results looked good in my opinion, I'm not sure others would agree!
In Sim 66 the limiting factor of the late Sixties is both a constraint and a creative blessing. Sure, I can't show people using mobile phones but the world building, the time taken to make a Sim look period appropriate and the research I do make it worthwhile. I love the world I've created: I'm writer, director, art director and costume designer rolled into one.
As for criticism, no one's had a bad word to say so far...I'll cross that bridge when it happens.
Something I really struggle with is writing descriptively. I feel like I'm a strong writer in terms of character building, back story, and dialogue, but my descriptive "in-between" writing is so-so in my opinion. I struggle with trying to figure out the difference between writing meaningful description that contributes to the plot and flow and info-dumping or just writing "filler fluff." Sometimes I feel like a Sims screenshot can explain away anything I can't in my writing, but I feel like this is almost a cop-out sometimes. Someone once told me that I should pay attention the five senses and I've been trying that out in my main story. Any suggestions? How do you write descriptively in SimLit? Do you let screenshots do the talking or a mixture of screenshots and prose?
I hear you on that one. Sometimes I want to cut the exposition and inner monologue and get straight to the dialogue and action. But I have to serve the story and its needs and if that means paragraphs of descriptive text then so be it...it'll make those fun zippy dialogue scenes all the better when they happen. Discipline, you need some discipline as a writer but the screen caps are a handy way of cutting out the descriptive prose to set the scene.
how do you write something fresh, if that's your thing? Or are you totally cool with reading stories that are similar to each other and that's your thing? I know that I find inspiration in the limits of the game, and I could see someone else finding inspiration in the limits of a genre.
I don't know, I just do it! When in doubt, just write, is my advice. I am drawn to certain types of SimLit: The decades challenges, period settings, more realistic stuff. Sometimes I feel vampires, spellcasters and mermaids are a little beyond my tastes but if it's well written, I'll read it but it's not something I go out of my way to find. It also helps if I can relate somehow to one or more characters in the story. Some of the more emosh teen stories with people all having woohoo with each other not that relatable! I'm not knocking that style, it's just I'm probably too vanilla in real life to appreciate that.
What experiences did you have as a writer in being friends with other writers? And with non-writer friends who read and like or not like, or even refuse to read your stories?
In the real, professional world I was part of a comedy writing group but a lot of the time the competitiveness is off putting: We're all chasing a limited number of writing jobs so you get defensive, secretive and pushy with your work whilst worrying whether that person you've shared an idea with is going to steal it and get the commission instead of you. I have two close friends who are writers...and we work as a team so we avoid the politicking. When we work solo we don't steal from or betray one another but it's hard to develop that level of trust. Here, in SimLit land there's none of that...you write and read stuff and don't worry about competition.
How do you all deal with in-game "derailings" and curve balls? Do you let them dictate the plot, influence your plot, or do you ignore and proceed with your story?
Roll with it, baby!
do you all find that your reading perspective is different from when you write?
When I read other people's work I'm entirely in their hands. When I write I'm master of my own story. It's the difference between control and letting go and sometimes reading's a little tricky if you're too used to controlling things. "Oh I would have done that a different way!" and all that.
The idea behind the “four doors” theory by Nancy Pearl is that there are four main things that people look for in what they read, and different people have different priorities.
Language
Character
Story
Setting
So what order would you put your doors in as a writer, and in which order as a reader? What do these doors mean to you?
I've not encountered Nancy Pearl or her theory before but I'd say Character is the most important, then story, then setting and finally language but I don't compartmentalise things like that. The characters are what's going to drive the story and hook people in so their actions drive the story but those actions are in some ways determined by their setting and the language is how they respond to what they're doing.
While it's not exactly a question about the art of Sims storytelling, I do have a vaguely writing-related head-scratcher (or, rather, a series of them) to pose to you: Is it important for you to know the gender of an author if their pen-name is ambiguous? Or, do you ever find yourself curious about an author's gender in that same situation... to the point of outright asking them? And is asking them that question an 'acceptable' thing to do, or does it overstep the bounds of the author/reader relationship?
I mentioned before I'm a man but I don't think about what image people might have of me. I don't really have an image of the other writers and readers either. I hope people don't think "oh it's written by a man so it's going to be like this kind of story", I just want people to think of Sim 66 first and wonder who Kellogg J Kellogg is as an afterthought.
how much do you think about where to put your pictures (before/ after the text they belong to) or do they just seem to fit where you put them? Does it correspond with whether you first write or first screenshot?
On some platforms the image appears in the link if you put it early on in your story so I do devote the time to choose an image I know will form the thumbnail on a link. Also, when I post the link to the story in the Sims Forums I look for not necessarily the best screen cap or the most dramatic but the one that has a certain charm or look or detail that will perk the interest of the casual thread reader.
Do you challenge stereotypes and assumptions in your Sim-lit? If so, how? To clarify, do you challenge the stereotypes of the Sims world and/or characteristics of Sims or typical SimLit writing styles? On the flip side, do you think there's a time and place for stereotypes, and if so, when and where? Does your idea of stereotypes or challenging stereotypes change when you're a reader vs. a writer?
I play with stereotypes. They're useful for shorthand but I use them, not the other way around. In Sim 66 people have various views of what the 1960s were like so I play up some of those stereotypes (for example, the fashion) and undercut them for dramatic effect in other ways (not everyone is into peace and love). A lot of people today are shocked at how people lived back then but if you read contemporary accounts and opinions of people who actually lived in those times you'll find that they considered certain things as normal or weren't bothered by them or had a unique take on life that counter the narrative that's been created in recent times about the past. I have to respect the people of those times.
what makes a GOOD writer?
Someone who creates interested and compelling characters and gives them interesting things to do whilst making sense.
The interesting things about stereotypes is that, a poorly executed stereotype can often be received better than a well-written break from tradition. Because of that it can be hard for people to branch out, but it's healthy to try, even if just to test yourself. Maybe we could look at writing a short-story from two points of view, one which plays on a particular stereotype, and the other which challenges that same stereotype?
People draw familiarity from stereotypes. They give the reader or viewer a stable platform from which they can navigate their way through parts of the story. I think the multiple point of view story is a good idea, it worked especially well in the movie "Rashomon" and one of my favourite TV shows...season 1 of Boomtown (a forgotten show from a few years ago...season 1 used the multiple story angle but it was dropped for season 2 and the show got cancelled).
when/how is writing hard for you, and what does it mean for it to be hard and how do you handle it?
The hard bit is finding the time and staving off tiredness.
How do you all write comedy in your SimLit? Does it come easily and naturally or do you struggle also?
I've written a lot of comedy in my time so I find it comes naturally. I don't mean that as a brag but I do see a lot of humour in things. Often in Sim 66 I'll write something serious and dramatic and then the next chapter Jeremy will get all tongue tied in front of a woman and there'll be a misunderstanding. My favourite joke I wrote in Sim 66 is where Geoffrey Landgraab is trying to describe to Jeremy what his wife, Nancy, does for a living without actually saying she's a crook.
"Nancy works late...it's a safe job"
"Oh as in regular pay and hours?"
"No as in an actual safe at a bank"
"Making deposits?"
"No, the opposite"
Comedy is the juxtaposition of the everyday and the fantastical with humorous results. When the results are tragic, it's horror.
When you're stuck in a corner with your SimLit writing, how do you find a way out?
Play the game and see what happens!
Read Sim 66 here:https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/978195/sim-66/p1
https://kelloggjkellogg.blogspot.com/2020/10/sim-66-prologue.html