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Isn't It A Bit Too Early?

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    CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited November 2015
    HalloMolli wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    HalloMolli wrote: »
    OP, you seem very ignorant to the reason why many of us want The Sims 4 to end.

    A friendly reminder: Calling a persons opinion ignorant is against the rules and it will result in a warning. Yes, I got one already. ^^

    Edit: Don't worry, I didn't flag your post, though :D.

    Double standards? flag those who don't like TS4 but don't flag those who do? You know Gurus were wondering about this sort of behavior here not long ago.

    LoL what? I have never used this flag feature in this forum. Just wanted to make clear that somebody flaged me after I elaborated why I think a persons opinion was "ignorant". -->
    I think you are very ignorant when it comes to this EP.

    What's your problem?

    I have problems with sometimes it seems those who are in love (not just like) TS4 get to say whatever, and then scream victim. And I have a problem if on the other side, for those who actually despise (not just don't like) think it's o.k. to do the same. I say let's all just realize we all love The Sims, and 'we all have an agenda here' everyone of us. And what is that agenda? To get a game we want. So, that makes us all kindred souls not enemies.

    ETA: It doesn't matter if people want this game to end 'early' if there is such a thing. It will last as long as it last. TS1 barely made it three years because they had new technology AKA 3D they wanted to sell. So, enjoy what you have and what you get, because tomorrow for all we know EA may think virtual reality and holograms are better than PC games. We don't know all we know is if they latch onto new technology they will go in that direction no matter what we say.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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    pepperjax1230pepperjax1230 Posts: 7,953 Member
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    I've seen the comment made.. I don't quite understand it.

    If the cash cow (the sims franchise) is no longer a cash cow.. there will not be a next version. That's not a threat to make people buy it -- people should buy only what they're interested in! But it's also business.

    I don't like TS4 much -- but I don't want it to end. I want it to improve with the things that would make me like the game.. and there's been some promising movement toward that. Not enough for me to purchase more content.. but enough that I might actually open the game again.

    You clearly have no idea WHY The Sims 4 isn't successful. It's because it lacks A LOT of features and content that Sims 3 had. Stop suggesting that it's The Sims itself that is no longer a "cash cow". It's not. It's only Sims 4. Stop making the assumption that it's the entire franchise as a whole.

    You should read previous posts I have made regarding this version of the game before you try to jump down my throat. :) I'm very much against the missing features this game has.

    The Sims as a franchise is a cash cow -- you can try to deny it if you want, but it's true. It's a game that people blindly put money in to and a lot came out disappointed. It's also a game where people have literally spoken on this board 'they can put out whatever content they want and I'll buy it.'

    It's a cash cow.

    If it stops being a cash cow, aka stops selling as good, the development team isn't going to look in to the reasons as to why. They will simply move on to their next project. Why? Because EA is above all, a business to make money.
    If sims 4 wasn't a cash cow there would be no sims 5 Grant already said if TS4 didn't succeed then we weren't getting another sims game. So why are you people trying to toss it aside. I would think you would want TS4 to succeed to you could get the game you want. I personally love TS4 and I don't want it to just put in my money to a series that has only been out for a year. Gee its only been a year and you aren't giving the game a chance to add the things.
    tenor.gif?itemid=5228641
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    Sim_LucentSim_Lucent Posts: 689 Member
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    I've seen the comment made.. I don't quite understand it.

    If the cash cow (the sims franchise) is no longer a cash cow.. there will not be a next version. That's not a threat to make people buy it -- people should buy only what they're interested in! But it's also business.

    I don't like TS4 much -- but I don't want it to end. I want it to improve with the things that would make me like the game.. and there's been some promising movement toward that. Not enough for me to purchase more content.. but enough that I might actually open the game again.

    You clearly have no idea WHY The Sims 4 isn't successful. It's because it lacks A LOT of features and content that Sims 3 had. Stop suggesting that it's The Sims itself that is no longer a "cash cow". It's not. It's only Sims 4. Stop making the assumption that it's the entire franchise as a whole.

    You should read previous posts I have made regarding this version of the game before you try to jump down my throat. :) I'm very much against the missing features this game has.

    The Sims as a franchise is a cash cow -- you can try to deny it if you want, but it's true. It's a game that people blindly put money in to and a lot came out disappointed. It's also a game where people have literally spoken on this board 'they can put out whatever content they want and I'll buy it.'

    It's a cash cow.

    If it stops being a cash cow, aka stops selling as good, the development team isn't going to look in to the reasons as to why. They will simply move on to their next project. Why? Because EA is above all, a business to make money.
    If sims 4 wasn't a cash cow there would be no sims 5 Grant already said if TS4 didn't succeed then we weren't getting another sims game. So why are you people trying to toss it aside. I would think you would want TS4 to succeed to you could get the game you want. I personally love TS4 and I don't want it to just put in my money to a series that has only been out for a year. Gee its only been a year and you aren't giving the game a chance to add the things.

    Why are you quoting me and saying 'you people'?
    When have I ever said I wanted the game to be tossed, let alone the franchise?

    Saying that.. I'm not going to put the money from my pocket forward to a game I don't enjoy just to string a franchise along.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    A new base game takes years in development, and for the first few of those years it's highly unlikely we'll know it's happening. It would also happen in parallel to development of new add-ons for this version. Sims 5 could be in the early stages of conceptualization right now, but it's not like they're going to tell us - all the telling-us for a good while will, as it did with The Sims and Sims 2 and Sims 3, focus on the stuff they actually have to show us and sell us. I don't figure there's much point in calling for something over and over if they can't answer either way. Sims 4 is going to get its due regardless of how much energy Simmers who don't care for it put into asking for Sims 5 to be started, and the business decision on Sims 5 isn't going to depend on a handful of unhappy players asking for it repeatedly. Seems to me like that time and energy could be better put into constructive posts about what they'd like Sims 5 to look like; at least that's something a team working on conceptualizing Sims 5 can use, even if they can't say so.

    (edited 'cause I missed a word - story of my day!)

    And because we understand what is bolded we do know TS4 was in production since 2010, then trashed after SC per Frank Gibeau in 2012. So, this base game had less than two years instead of the four or five it needed. It really isn't any wonder some do want them to move on to TS5 if it's not going to be just some mobile game.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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    pepperjax1230pepperjax1230 Posts: 7,953 Member
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    I've seen the comment made.. I don't quite understand it.

    If the cash cow (the sims franchise) is no longer a cash cow.. there will not be a next version. That's not a threat to make people buy it -- people should buy only what they're interested in! But it's also business.

    I don't like TS4 much -- but I don't want it to end. I want it to improve with the things that would make me like the game.. and there's been some promising movement toward that. Not enough for me to purchase more content.. but enough that I might actually open the game again.

    You clearly have no idea WHY The Sims 4 isn't successful. It's because it lacks A LOT of features and content that Sims 3 had. Stop suggesting that it's The Sims itself that is no longer a "cash cow". It's not. It's only Sims 4. Stop making the assumption that it's the entire franchise as a whole.

    You should read previous posts I have made regarding this version of the game before you try to jump down my throat. :) I'm very much against the missing features this game has.

    The Sims as a franchise is a cash cow -- you can try to deny it if you want, but it's true. It's a game that people blindly put money in to and a lot came out disappointed. It's also a game where people have literally spoken on this board 'they can put out whatever content they want and I'll buy it.'

    It's a cash cow.

    If it stops being a cash cow, aka stops selling as good, the development team isn't going to look in to the reasons as to why. They will simply move on to their next project. Why? Because EA is above all, a business to make money.
    If sims 4 wasn't a cash cow there would be no sims 5 Grant already said if TS4 didn't succeed then we weren't getting another sims game. So why are you people trying to toss it aside. I would think you would want TS4 to succeed to you could get the game you want. I personally love TS4 and I don't want it to just put in my money to a series that has only been out for a year. Gee its only been a year and you aren't giving the game a chance to add the things.

    Why are you quoting me and saying 'you people'?
    When have I ever said I wanted the game to be tossed, let alone the franchise?

    Saying that.. I'm not going to put the money from my pocket forward to a game I don't enjoy just to string a franchise along.

    Then don't and I meant people in general. You aren't the only one I have heard to not spend money in a franchise they don't like but sims 4 is not suppose to be TS2 or 3 its suppose to be different. So how do you know it won't have the things you want in the game? Like it I said its only been a year and you aren't giving it a chance.
    tenor.gif?itemid=5228641
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    luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 37,632 Member
    @Cinebar - I totally get the wanting-them-to-start-work-on-Sims-5 part. Personally, I don't see an issue with that. I do think, though, that expecting them to announce they're starting on a 5-year process is unrealistic, that asking that they stop work on Sims 4 add-ons is a slight to other Simmers (as well as honestly unrealistic and unnecessary: if there are resources to develop Sims 5, they likely depend on Sims 4 continuing to have income through that full time, which means continuing to have new product to sell), and that a team working on Sims 5 -- or even pushing a business case with EA to start doing that -- would probably benefit more from their constructive, positive requests than from anything that asks for current development to stop.
    EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
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    stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 25,082 Member
    The posts calling for Sims 5 are equal parts wishful thinking and trolling. I'm hoping that a successful release of Get Together will end a lot of that talk (other than people complaining that the group dynamics should have been in the base game) as the game starts to pivot away from what seems to be single Sim play and more into family play, as families are just a special subset are groups.
    Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
    Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
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    S1MSKA1S1MSKA1 Posts: 235 Member
    edited November 2015
    Probably because they are OPEN WURLDZZ fanboys who for some reason, actually believe that TS5's hypothetical open worlds won't be broken, glitching, lagging and crashing every 5 minutes - and probably have sparsely populated community lots like Ts3. Boy are they in for a surprise when (and if) a TS5 finally does happen.
    WE WANT KOI PONDS FOR THE SIMS 4!
    OMG KOI PONDS!!!!
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    MightydanMightydan Posts: 2,983 Member
    It would be better if the developers skip TS5 altogether and start working on The Sims 6.
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    AquaGamer1212AquaGamer1212 Posts: 5,417 Member
    Mightydan wrote: »
    It would be better if the developers skip TS5 altogether and start working on The Sims 6.

    lolz
    ts4_blossom_meadows_world_icon_gif_fan_art_by_hazzaplumbob-d.gif

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    KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,715 Member
    edited November 2015
    S1MSKA1 wrote: »
    Probably because they are OPEN WURLDZZ fanboys who for some reason, actually believe that TS5's hypothetical open worlds won't be broken, glitching, lagging and crashing every 5 minutes. Boy are they in for a surprise when (and if) a TS5 finally does happen.
    And your proof of this is where, exactly?
    752d5ef1ccf6be4ae3b2e539a6376fe9ea400d9ar1-320-207_00.gif
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    S1MSKA1S1MSKA1 Posts: 235 Member
    edited November 2015
    Btw I'm personally hoping that TS4 will be the last in the numbered series and that a TS5 (or any form continuation of the main series) will never happen.
    WE WANT KOI PONDS FOR THE SIMS 4!
    OMG KOI PONDS!!!!
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    CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    @Cinebar - I totally get the wanting-them-to-start-work-on-Sims-5 part. Personally, I don't see an issue with that. I do think, though, that expecting them to announce they're starting on a 5-year process is unrealistic, that asking that they stop work on Sims 4 add-ons is a slight to other Simmers (as well as honestly unrealistic and unnecessary: if there are resources to develop Sims 5, they likely depend on Sims 4 continuing to have income through that full time, which means continuing to have new product to sell), and that a team working on Sims 5 -- or even pushing a business case with EA to start doing that -- would probably benefit more from their constructive, positive requests than from anything that asks for current development to stop.

    Yeah, but I have wished many times before TS3 ended they would go ahead and announce TS4 for me but I wasn't expecting this game. lol I was expecting something 'huge' never seen before like the best of TS2 Sims and learned by mistakes of TS3 improved, and no moodlet system ever again. lol But yes, it's a no brainer to know they aren't going to come out shortly after the first year of a game and announce they have started TS5. Actually, I sort of don't want to hear it, because my fear is 'here's your new app.' lol
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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    Sim_LucentSim_Lucent Posts: 689 Member
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    I've seen the comment made.. I don't quite understand it.

    If the cash cow (the sims franchise) is no longer a cash cow.. there will not be a next version. That's not a threat to make people buy it -- people should buy only what they're interested in! But it's also business.

    I don't like TS4 much -- but I don't want it to end. I want it to improve with the things that would make me like the game.. and there's been some promising movement toward that. Not enough for me to purchase more content.. but enough that I might actually open the game again.

    You clearly have no idea WHY The Sims 4 isn't successful. It's because it lacks A LOT of features and content that Sims 3 had. Stop suggesting that it's The Sims itself that is no longer a "cash cow". It's not. It's only Sims 4. Stop making the assumption that it's the entire franchise as a whole.

    You should read previous posts I have made regarding this version of the game before you try to jump down my throat. :) I'm very much against the missing features this game has.

    The Sims as a franchise is a cash cow -- you can try to deny it if you want, but it's true. It's a game that people blindly put money in to and a lot came out disappointed. It's also a game where people have literally spoken on this board 'they can put out whatever content they want and I'll buy it.'

    It's a cash cow.

    If it stops being a cash cow, aka stops selling as good, the development team isn't going to look in to the reasons as to why. They will simply move on to their next project. Why? Because EA is above all, a business to make money.
    If sims 4 wasn't a cash cow there would be no sims 5 Grant already said if TS4 didn't succeed then we weren't getting another sims game. So why are you people trying to toss it aside. I would think you would want TS4 to succeed to you could get the game you want. I personally love TS4 and I don't want it to just put in my money to a series that has only been out for a year. Gee its only been a year and you aren't giving the game a chance to add the things.

    Why are you quoting me and saying 'you people'?
    When have I ever said I wanted the game to be tossed, let alone the franchise?

    Saying that.. I'm not going to put the money from my pocket forward to a game I don't enjoy just to string a franchise along.

    Then don't and I meant people in general. You aren't the only one I have heard to not spend money in a franchise they don't like but sims 4 is not suppose to be TS2 or 3 its suppose to be different. So how do you know it won't have the things you want in the game? Like it I said its only been a year and you aren't giving it a chance.

    I have the base game. If it grows in a direction I think I'll enjoy, I'll put my money in to it. :)
    I'm not going to pointlessly spend my money and *hope* I enjoy it eventually -- some people can and will, and that's their prerogative. To each their own.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    S1MSKA1 wrote: »
    Probably because they are OPEN WURLDZZ fanboys who for some reason, actually believe that TS5's hypothetical open worlds won't be broken, glitching, lagging and crashing every 5 minutes - and probably have sparsely populated community lots like Ts3. Boy are they in for a surprise when (and if) a TS5 finally does happen.

    See, there is no need to say these things. I like open world sometimes, sometimes not. I still play all these games. There is nothing in the world wrong with telling Maxis what you want the future games to be. However, it's not real clear they actually read those threads because we can see they didn't read TS3 site or they would have known majority of fans of The Sims don't want online only, or MMO, or linear/scripted play in everything in the game. Maybe in an EP like WA 'adventure type add on" or Ambitions EP such as linear/scripted play as an RPG..but it seems they didn't really read any of that or the thousands of comments about how to improve the toddler stage. And I doubt they are reading we don't want a TS5 mobile game, either. But who knows, maybe they only do what they want to do and ignore discussions such as all that.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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    pepperjax1230pepperjax1230 Posts: 7,953 Member
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    I've seen the comment made.. I don't quite understand it.

    If the cash cow (the sims franchise) is no longer a cash cow.. there will not be a next version. That's not a threat to make people buy it -- people should buy only what they're interested in! But it's also business.

    I don't like TS4 much -- but I don't want it to end. I want it to improve with the things that would make me like the game.. and there's been some promising movement toward that. Not enough for me to purchase more content.. but enough that I might actually open the game again.

    You clearly have no idea WHY The Sims 4 isn't successful. It's because it lacks A LOT of features and content that Sims 3 had. Stop suggesting that it's The Sims itself that is no longer a "cash cow". It's not. It's only Sims 4. Stop making the assumption that it's the entire franchise as a whole.

    You should read previous posts I have made regarding this version of the game before you try to jump down my throat. :) I'm very much against the missing features this game has.

    The Sims as a franchise is a cash cow -- you can try to deny it if you want, but it's true. It's a game that people blindly put money in to and a lot came out disappointed. It's also a game where people have literally spoken on this board 'they can put out whatever content they want and I'll buy it.'

    It's a cash cow.

    If it stops being a cash cow, aka stops selling as good, the development team isn't going to look in to the reasons as to why. They will simply move on to their next project. Why? Because EA is above all, a business to make money.
    If sims 4 wasn't a cash cow there would be no sims 5 Grant already said if TS4 didn't succeed then we weren't getting another sims game. So why are you people trying to toss it aside. I would think you would want TS4 to succeed to you could get the game you want. I personally love TS4 and I don't want it to just put in my money to a series that has only been out for a year. Gee its only been a year and you aren't giving the game a chance to add the things.

    Why are you quoting me and saying 'you people'?
    When have I ever said I wanted the game to be tossed, let alone the franchise?

    Saying that.. I'm not going to put the money from my pocket forward to a game I don't enjoy just to string a franchise along.

    Then don't and I meant people in general. You aren't the only one I have heard to not spend money in a franchise they don't like but sims 4 is not suppose to be TS2 or 3 its suppose to be different. So how do you know it won't have the things you want in the game? Like it I said its only been a year and you aren't giving it a chance.

    I have the base game. If it grows in a direction I think I'll enjoy, I'll put my money in to it. :)
    I'm not going to pointlessly spend my money and *hope* I enjoy it eventually -- some people can and will, and that's their prerogative. To each their own.
    Very True :mrgreen:

    tenor.gif?itemid=5228641
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    PHOEBESMOM601PHOEBESMOM601 Posts: 14,595 Member
    If there is a TS5 in the future there's no doubt in my mind that there are already meetings, early development talks and concept art going on behind the scenes.

    That's if they plan to do it. As far as announcing or letting info leak....that won't happen until TS4 has run the course that's planned. I don't know who remembers the TS3 forum but when 4 was beginning to leak and as we got more information there were more and more posts from players saying they weren't going to buy more TS3 content and were waiting for 4. They aren't going to risk the already shaky player base with information about TS5.
    "People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
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    BrittanyChick22BrittanyChick22 Posts: 2,130 Member
    Because some people are so disappointed with sims 4, they just want to move on to the next game hoping it will be better. I don't care if sims 4 continues or not to be honest, but while the the game is still alive i just want them to add more content and features to the game.
    giphy.gif


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    halimali1980halimali1980 Posts: 8,246 Member
    OP there is no guarantee that TS5 if there will be one will be better than TS4. I think TS4 can get a lot better. I hope, just hope that EA will concentrate the whole 2016 in making the game better by adding new features, make more past features return and enhance some of the available ones to turn this game into what it was meant to be.

    When this happens I think most of those who talk about TS5 will get into TS4. I don't blame them, because the game has some shortcomings. These shortcomings might be tolerable for some and intolerable for others.

    My only wish is that EA makes changes and enhancements that turn this game into a great one.
    I personally been happy the last 3 days reading about some good changes like the 64 bit, the mods and update things and the update of the map. I am excited to see how these will turn up.
    Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
    giphy.gif
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    Ilovecats1989Ilovecats1989 Posts: 227 Member
    I'm still hopeful about The Sims 4, and I plan on buying Get Together. I think they can improve on it and add things that are really wanted like family play, terrain editing etc. The question is, will they? If Sims 5 comes out, I'm okay with it but I'd like to see what they will do with The sims 4.
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    DarleymikeyDarleymikey Posts: 4,047 Member
    edited November 2015
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    Sim_Lucent wrote: »
    I've seen the comment made.. I don't quite understand it.

    If the cash cow (the sims franchise) is no longer a cash cow.. there will not be a next version. That's not a threat to make people buy it -- people should buy only what they're interested in! But it's also business.

    I don't like TS4 much -- but I don't want it to end. I want it to improve with the things that would make me like the game.. and there's been some promising movement toward that. Not enough for me to purchase more content.. but enough that I might actually open the game again.

    You clearly have no idea WHY The Sims 4 isn't successful. It's because it lacks A LOT of features and content that Sims 3 had. Stop suggesting that it's The Sims itself that is no longer a "cash cow". It's not. It's only Sims 4. Stop making the assumption that it's the entire franchise as a whole.

    You should read previous posts I have made regarding this version of the game before you try to jump down my throat. :) I'm very much against the missing features this game has.

    The Sims as a franchise is a cash cow -- you can try to deny it if you want, but it's true. It's a game that people blindly put money in to and a lot came out disappointed. It's also a game where people have literally spoken on this board 'they can put out whatever content they want and I'll buy it.'

    It's a cash cow.

    If it stops being a cash cow, aka stops selling as good, the development team isn't going to look in to the reasons as to why. They will simply move on to their next project. Why? Because EA is above all, a business to make money.

    How can you be against missing features that a game has? I must be missing the context.
    wallshot_zps9l41abih.jpg
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    azxcvbnm321azxcvbnm321 Posts: 532 Member
    The reason I want Sims 4 to be ended ASAP is because the game is beyond redemption. For the game to rise to the level of a true sequel to the Sims 2 and 3, the game would have to be completely rebuilt and it would be much easier just to start from scratch. There can't be open world in Sims 4, there isn't going to be terrain tools either because the engine is built for flat space. There can't be a world editor/creator and CASt is also impossible. The number of Sims is very limited leading to the culling issue. The number of lots is also extremely limited compared to past games and can't reach the past limits or even come close. I would be very surprised if either toddlers or terrain tools were added. But besides all that, and that's a big besides, the gameplay itself is goal-oriented and structured like a mobile game with repetitive tasks to unlock items so that you can do more repetitive tasks to unlock more and get achievements.

    The entire game is rotten to the core. Adding EPs isn't going to fix the underlying problems, it's like adding toppings to a pizza with bad crust and sauce. There are no amount of toppings you can add that will make the pizza good, likewise it doesn't matter how many EPs they add, it's just putting lipstick on a pig.

    The graphics are also VERY disappointing compared to recent releases and expectations of a modern AAA game. But graphics are better than Sims 3 you say. Sure, but expectations have risen A LOT in 5 years, how so? Just look at Fallout 4. One of the top complaints is that the graphics are no where near what they should be. I don't necessarily agree, but if people are complaining about the graphics on ultra of Fallout 4, then you can understand why Sims 4 is FAR behind the standard.
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    DarleymikeyDarleymikey Posts: 4,047 Member
    The graphics are behind the times, but that's not what's keeping me away.

    Yeah, with you on the Fallout 4 graphics. People don't get it. Fallout 4's graphics aren't the Witcher IIIs. That said, you can't mold a character's face in Witcher III, pick a gender, nor do most of the other things you can do in Fallout 4. And let's not forget the modding..supported as a feature, pretty much. Creation kits have never been super user friendly, but still opens modding to a wider range of abilities. Can't wait for it to be released.

    Imagine what Sims 4 would be like if Maxis released a tool kit for modding it. Well, what it would be like if it were designed so that it could be easily modded. Then again, bears are too hard to animate, so...
    wallshot_zps9l41abih.jpg
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