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Just Some Wishful Thinking...

I have a theory about the Sims 4, well actually it’s more like me just wishful thinking than a theory but I’ll still share it.

Before I get into it, please keep in mind that what I’m saying is my own opinion, not actual facts so no saying that “you’re wrong” or something like that because there are no right or wrong opinions. They are just ideas/what you think.

To begin with forget about not having toddlers and such and just focus on the Sims and the missing features about the worlds. Like no open world, no create-a-world, the world maps, etc.

To me, the Sims look a lot better than in the previous game. I never played the first Sims, so I don’t know about that game. I haven’t played Sims 3 as much as Sims 2, but honestly Sims 4 are the best-looking ones. I think that’s mostly because of the graphics and more advanced technology than what was used in Sims 2 and 3.

When the add in the fact that the Sims are supposedly smarter, more lifelike, the can do more actions like scooting over in bed if it’s against a wall and selfies, taking pictures with/of other Sims. It seems like the Sims themselves were the main focus point when creating the game like they wanted to get the Sims right and kind of experiment to see what we as simmers will and will not like our sims to be able to do.

They kind of put the worlds on the back burner, so to speak. There wasn’t as much effect put into them.

But consider this for a moment; Sims 4 is to perfect the Sims, to get them absolutely right. Then in Sims 5 (if it happens) the main focus point are the worlds, like making it open, because the Sims were perfected in Sims 4 nothing needs to be added to them.
Basically what I’m saying is what if the reason why the worlds aren’t very good is because they used the game to focus solely on the Sims and in the next game it’s all about the worlds? And in the middle of all of that they throw in create-a-style for the simmers that need that.

I’m not saying this is true or anything, just something to think about. And honestly this idea is actually helping me deal with the little train wreck that is Sims 4 at the moment.

I apologize if I haven’t explained it clearly for you; feel free to ask about something if you’re confused.

Comments

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    GalacticGalGalacticGal Posts: 28,800 Member
    Focusing more on the Sims was definitely something I read (or heard in a video) from the Gurus, I think, so you're spot on with that. However, I really liked the Sims in Sims2. Sims3, they threw our Sims under the bus, so to speak, and I wasn't satisfied on the whole. I still played the game every day, hoping in time with EPs & SPs, it would get better. I was wrong. The only EP that truly brought my enjoyment up was ST. I wanted a singer Sim in the game so badly, to better reflect my created Sim family, that I was wholly disappointed when the band ability they gave us couldn't include a singer. These Sims were touted as having a better AI, too, as I recall. Another disappointment.

    While I do appreciate going from a game with an Open World to a closed one again can be hugely disappointing, I find the effort put into our Sims to make them livelier again is worth it. The graphics are better, and the CAS is out of this world better. This is what the focus needs to be on the Sims themselves.

    If, on the other hand, devoting themselves to the Open World (as they did in Sims3) means we have to, again, sacrifice the Sims themselves, then count me out.

    I'm this way about a movie or a book, too. The characters (which is really what our Sims are) are what it's all about. If they aren't likable, what's the point in spending time with them, eh?

    We all have our own stories to tell in playing our game. I'm willing to sacrifice the backdrop for the better quality 'actor'. I like Sims4, on the whole. I don't play every day, but that may actually be a good thing — for me. Seems my addiction is cured. But, when I do play, I can really get into it and play for a good 3-4 hours at a stretch.
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    simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 36,088 Member
    Focusing more on the Sims was definitely something I read (or heard in a video) from the Gurus, I think, so you're spot on with that. However, I really liked the Sims in Sims2. Sims3, they threw our Sims under the bus, so to speak, and I wasn't satisfied on the whole. I still played the game every day, hoping in time with EPs & SPs, it would get better. I was wrong. The only EP that truly brought my enjoyment up was ST. I wanted a singer Sim in the game so badly, to better reflect my created Sim family, that I was wholly disappointed when the band ability they gave us couldn't include a singer. These Sims were touted as having a better AI, too, as I recall. Another disappointment.

    While I do appreciate going from a game with an Open World to a closed one again can be hugely disappointing, I find the effort put into our Sims to make them livelier again is worth it. The graphics are better, and the CAS is out of this world better. This is what the focus needs to be on the Sims themselves.

    If, on the other hand, devoting themselves to the Open World (as they did in Sims3) means we have to, again, sacrifice the Sims themselves, then count me out.

    I'm this way about a movie or a book, too. The characters (which is really what our Sims are) are what it's all about. If they aren't likable, what's the point in spending time with them, eh?

    We all have our own stories to tell in playing our game. I'm willing to sacrifice the backdrop for the better quality 'actor'. I like Sims4, on the whole. I don't play every day, but that may actually be a good thing — for me. Seems my addiction is cured. But, when I do play, I can really get into it and play for a good 3-4 hours at a stretch.

    This is an excellent observation. I'm currently reading a book, The Fixer, by Joseph Finder, and I've enjoyed all his previous books and do like the plot of this one but I absolutely can't stand the main character. I want to jump into the book and slap him silly so I'm having to force myself to finish this book. And as much as I love the previous sims games I was never overly enamored with the sims themselves. Couldn't really get a connection because I didn't like the way they looked without lots and lots of custom content. With the Sims 4 I have no CAS genetics cc. Love them just the way they are and love their quirkiness.
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    stephAnie1864stephAnie1864 Posts: 200 Member
    Focusing more on the Sims was definitely something I read (or heard in a video) from the Gurus, I think, so you're spot on with that. However, I really liked the Sims in Sims2. Sims3, they threw our Sims under the bus, so to speak, and I wasn't satisfied on the whole. I still played the game every day, hoping in time with EPs & SPs, it would get better. I was wrong. The only EP that truly brought my enjoyment up was ST. I wanted a singer Sim in the game so badly, to better reflect my created Sim family, that I was wholly disappointed when the band ability they gave us couldn't include a singer. These Sims were touted as having a better AI, too, as I recall. Another disappointment.

    While I do appreciate going from a game with an Open World to a closed one again can be hugely disappointing, I find the effort put into our Sims to make them livelier again is worth it. The graphics are better, and the CAS is out of this world better. This is what the focus needs to be on the Sims themselves.

    If, on the other hand, devoting themselves to the Open World (as they did in Sims3) means we have to, again, sacrifice the Sims themselves, then count me out.

    I'm this way about a movie or a book, too. The characters (which is really what our Sims are) are what it's all about. If they aren't likable, what's the point in spending time with them, eh?

    We all have our own stories to tell in playing our game. I'm willing to sacrifice the backdrop for the better quality 'actor'. I like Sims4, on the whole. I don't play every day, but that may actually be a good thing — for me. Seems my addiction is cured. But, when I do play, I can really get into it and play for a good 3-4 hours at a stretch.

    I love the Sims in Sims2, I think they are brilliant. However, I do think Sims 4 Sims look better and that is mainly because of the create-a-sim we now have. You can do more than in the Sims 2 and they look better, to me at least.

    I've played Sims 2 for years and it's only been within the last year or 2 that I began Sims 3 so I am completely used to loading screens, and I don't mind them. The Sims 2 is so amazing it's worth the loading screens.

    I wouldn't want to give up the Sims we have now just for an open world, but if it's possible in Sims 5 or whatever to have the Sims we have now and have an open world or even semi-open world so we can visit our neighbours without loading screens, I would be happy with that.

    In the Sims 3 we had an open world, but the Sims were not good. So maybe with the Sims 4 they are trying to get the Sims right before attempting another big thing like an open world.

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    RealPollyMogsRealPollyMogs Posts: 478 Member
    I couldn't connect with the sims in TS3 and always wished that I could plop my TS2 simmies with their quirks and huge personalities, interests, fears, and memories into Sunset Valley. Now I'd like to send 'em through TS4's CAS first.
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    stephAnie1864stephAnie1864 Posts: 200 Member
    I couldn't connect with the sims in TS3 and always wished that I could plop my TS2 simmies with their quirks and huge personalities, interests, fears, and memories into Sunset Valley. Now I'd like to send 'em through TS4's CAS first.

    I couldn't connect with the Sims in Sims 3 too. I love the open world they have, being able to send your Sims grocery shopping then going to the theatre and seeing a movie. It was so realistic and great, but the Sims themselves were a disappointment.
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    CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited November 2015
    Eh, I don't think they are smarter. Because sometimes they are just as silly as all the rest. Instead of going to pee they will go play on the computer. It hasn't changed at all. Or they will fix something to eat and put it down (though starving) and go to talk to another Sim. Play large households..they ain't all that smart.

    I like the Sim model but feel their arms are too long. Just an observation. Their forearms seems out of proportion. I'm just a stickler for those things.

    I think they are as good as TS2 Sims in the Sim 3D model but I don't think the 'graphics' for the game are better than the rest. Not enough polys and detail for me.

    The gameplay is meh to me, but I do enjoy some of it. I do have some favorites in this game as in all the games since I played them all. So, I wait it out to see if there is something more than check lists, goals and or achievements and 'collecting' to add depth to them ......eventually. Because it is my opinion the other games had more interactions, physical activities (which is true) than this game. So, it's a little bit on the lack luster side in that regard. I think those of us who played the other games know that.

    I'm glad they went back to supporting rotational play because that is the type of player I am, however, I don't enjoy a loading screen right next door.

    It has many features in it about switching Sims etc. that I wished I had in TS2 or TS1. Not bothered all that much by loading screens but after taking a Sim several places in one day it does get to be a chore.

    Not the best game in the series to me, but not so horrible I can't find some fun.

    I won't dis TS1, or TS2, or TS3 to make it look better. I think the GTW EP was good for 'me'. And I enjoyed it. Though hands on careers are not my thing in these games. But some people really want all jobs to be hands on. I can understand their point but it would be overwhelming to me to have eight Sims all in hands on careers at one time. So, glad I can skip a day with them in this game.

    I don't like the emotions so much but don't mind manipulating them sometimes as I have in all the games just don't want to see them on the screen or in the UI...moodlet systems or not my bag....lol.

    I prefer to see the emotion and action rather than read it.

    Not thrilled with some of the multitasking since it hurts my game play when I want the Sim to do something 'now!'. lol

    However, other parts of multitasking are good..so a trade off.

    Like some objects in this game as much as the other games..so that's good.

    Just sitting here wasting my life waiting on a really big, impressive EP to blow me away and finally I can say Oh, that was impressive!



    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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    RealPollyMogsRealPollyMogs Posts: 478 Member
    I'm with you on the "show, don't tell" bit. I used to love throwing parties in TS2 and just watching what everyone did. I have yet to see an interesting party in TS4; as far as I'm concerned, they're all Snoozers. And I truly resent having to pay for 'em.
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    StrawberryYogurtStrawberryYogurt Posts: 2,799 Member
    I'm not a complainer on a open world since I never had that anyway - i never had the sims 3 PC. I've had it on console though, and a lot of other console sims games.
    Total I've played:
    The sims (PC)
    The sims 2 (PC)
    The sims (Gamecube)
    The sims (DS)
    The sims castaway (DS)
    My Sims (DS)
    The sims 2 pets (Gamecube)
    The sims 3 (Xbox)
    The sims 3 pets (PS3)

    and I have to say...the Sims 4 is definitely the best looking sims there's ever been.
    The Sims has currently lost its identity. Bring it back for TS5

    FixedCoarseFawn-max-1mb.gif

    Personality,depth,humor,consequences,lore,customization.
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    blueturtleotterblueturtleotter Posts: 867 Member
    edited November 2015
    Really, 4 is about perfecting the sims themselves?

    The sims in 4 are the most unintelligent since The Sims 1, a game that was released 15 years ago.

    The traits in 4 affect little and the sims all act pretty much the same: manic. They do not react appropriately to the behaviour of other sims; they all use the same bathroom when there are empty ones, and loner sims do not react at all to this. Slob sims clean up after themselves, go to the gym and happily use the equipment there. Mean sims are not mean. Enemy sims smile at each and have normal conversations.

    If you think the sims in 4 are an attempt at perfection, I'd hate to see what you regard as mediocrity.
    Post edited by blueturtleotter on
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    stephAnie1864stephAnie1864 Posts: 200 Member
    Really, 4 is about perfecting the sims themselves?

    The sims in 4 are the most unintelligent since The Sims 1, a game that was released 15 years ago.

    The traits in 4 affect little and the sims all act pretty much the same: manic. They do not react appropriately to the behaviour of other sims; they all use the same bathroom when there are empty ones, and loner sims do not react at all to this. Slob sims clean up after themselves, go to the gym and happily use the equipment there. Mean sims are not mean. Enemy sims smile at each and have normal conversations.

    If you think the sims in 4 are an attempt at perfection, I'd hate to see what you regard as mediocrity.

    As I said in my post, it’s just a little theory that they tried making the Sims in 4 perfect. I also said that they are “supposedly smarter”. Nowhere in my post did I say that I believe that they are the smarter Sims or that they are perfect. It’s just a theory, an idea. Also, I would not know about the intelligence of the Sims in Sims 1 because as I stated in my post “I never played the first Sims”.

    Do you not ever just think to yourself and wonder why something is done the way it is? I do. The Sims 4 does seem, to me, to be more focused on the Sims, and not much else so I just wonder about reasons why they done that. I just decided to share this thought.

    In response to your comment "if you think the sims in 4 are an attempt at perfection, I’d hate to see what regard as mediocrity”, like I have said multiple times I, personally, do not think the Sims in 4 are perfect, it’s just one of many of the theories that I have as to why so much effort was put into them. Maybe EA or whoever created them tried to make them perfect and quite obviously failed at that.

    I also referred to the Sims 4 as a “little train wreck”, that only should give you some clue as to my actual feelings about the game.
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    Prink34320Prink34320 Posts: 5,078 Member
    edited November 2015
    Really, 4 is about perfecting the sims themselves?

    The sims in 4 are the most unintelligent since The Sims 1, a game that was released 15 years ago.

    The traits in 4 affect little and the sims all act pretty much the same: manic. They do not react appropriately to the behaviour of other sims; they all use the same bathroom when there are empty ones, and loner sims do not react at all to this. Slob sims clean up after themselves, go to the gym and happily use the equipment there. Mean sims are not mean. Enemy sims smile at each and have normal conversations.

    If you think the sims in 4 are an attempt at perfection, I'd hate to see what you regard as mediocrity.

    That's an exaggeration, I'd say The Sims 4 are smart, I left my Sims to do whatever they wanted for one day and they ended up raising their relationships, increasing the Skills they need for a Promotion(although they have already been working on those Skills before) and tended to their needs, they're pretty much survivalists, they won't go down easy, that's pretty intelligent in my opinion, although I love my TS3 Sims, when I tried this on them, they ended up just standing in one place for several Sim hours, but it was funny to see the Cat and Dog tear up their expensive sofas while they stood there lol

    The Traits affect quite a bit, at least in my opinion, more than the previous instalments did with their Traits. If you have a Sim with a certain Trait, they can feel certain bursts of Emotion, become better at certain Skills or categories of Skills, they also have exclusive interactions. Lazy Sims will never run far distances, Crazy Sims can talk to themselves to fulfil their Social Need, Romantic Sims will have a better chance at getting into a Romantic Relationship, Outgoing Sims will have a better chance at getting into a Friendly Relationship, Squeamish Sims will act squirmy around certain things like insects or death etc. My Sims have so far never acted the same, even when I force them into doing the same things repetitively. When my Sim witnessed his spouse cheat on him with another guy, he got Angry and walked away from them, when he had a divorce with his Spouse, they walked away from each other, both Sad, in fact the Spouse went to bed and cried under the sheets, then his best friend came to cheer him up but he got angry at her(his tone of voice was angry/annoyed), their Child was also Sad and sat at the dinner table alone for a while and another example, when my Sims witnessed a Sim die, they got a little Sad, but one of them was the enemy of the dying Sim and he felt Happy about it, just an example of how they react appropriately to the behaviour of other Sims and certain events that occur, and people react differently towards the behaviour of other people, appropriately or not, there's not just one way of reacting to certain behaviour. Really? My Sims that live downstairs usually go to the downstairs toilet and my Sims that live upstairs go to the upstairs toilet. My Loner Sims always feel Tense when around Sims they don't know, especially when talking to Sims they don't know, in TS4, my Loner Sims never talk to other Sims unless he is friends with them. My Sims with the Slob Traits pick up the dishes too, but then put them down on the table that's farther away from the Sink lol, she almost never takes Showers or Baths autonomously either, also how is going to the Gym and using the equipment there a bad thing for Sims with the Slob Trait? My Mean Sims often autonomously use the Mean or Mischief interactions and I have to stop them from making enemies of their own friends. As for enemies, in my game I have two types, ones that are usually mean to each other and ones that are sometimes nice to each other, there's more than one way to deal with enemies, it's the same in real life, you can have an enemy without hating the life out of them, heck, you can even be romantically involved with your enemy, it's not unnatural. In the end, everyone has a different experience with the game, I guess my experience just turns out to be more positive and fulfilling than yours.

    You don't need to be rude, everyone has their own perspectives and opinions, some people think The Sims 4 in itself is perfect compared to previous instalments, some think it's half baked, it's all a matter of opinion, you might see a person and think they're perfect while another person feels the complete opposite about them.
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    PamhamletPamhamlet Posts: 5,556 Member
    That's awewome, @Prink34320 I always think I'm playing a different game than other people who say their Sims all act alike and traits don't matter, etc. I've never gotten that impression with mine. The variables in their personalities and animations are amazing, especially when compounded by their emotional states. I just saw my Sim, who was in an angry mood, say Good-bye to a visitor today. She waved her arm like good riddance and mumbled something loudly like, "Yeah, yeah, get out of here!" It was hilarious, I'd never seen that before. I just think Sims 4 Sims are the best, and I think their worlds are beautiful, too!
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    blueturtleotterblueturtleotter Posts: 867 Member
    edited November 2015
    Prink34320 wrote: »
    Really, 4 is about perfecting the sims themselves?

    The sims in 4 are the most unintelligent since The Sims 1, a game that was released 15 years ago.

    The traits in 4 affect little and the sims all act pretty much the same: manic. They do not react appropriately to the behaviour of other sims; they all use the same bathroom when there are empty ones, and loner sims do not react at all to this. Slob sims clean up after themselves, go to the gym and happily use the equipment there. Mean sims are not mean. Enemy sims smile at each and have normal conversations.

    If you think the sims in 4 are an attempt at perfection, I'd hate to see what you regard as mediocrity.

    That's an exaggeration, I'd say The Sims 4 are smart, I left my Sims to do whatever they wanted for one day and they ended up raising their relationships, increasing the Skills they need for a Promotion(although they have already been working on those Skills before) and tended to their needs, they're pretty much survivalists, they won't go down easy, that's pretty intelligent in my opinion, although I love my TS3 Sims, when I tried this on them, they ended up just standing in one place for several Sim hours, but it was funny to see the Cat and Dog tear up their expensive sofas while they stood there lol

    The Traits affect quite a bit, at least in my opinion, more than the previous instalments did with their Traits. If you have a Sim with a certain Trait, they can feel certain bursts of Emotion, become better at certain Skills or categories of Skills, they also have exclusive interactions. Lazy Sims will never run far distances, Crazy Sims can talk to themselves to fulfil their Social Need, Romantic Sims will have a better chance at getting into a Romantic Relationship, Outgoing Sims will have a better chance at getting into a Friendly Relationship, Squeamish Sims will act squirmy around certain things like insects or death etc. My Sims have so far never acted the same, even when I force them into doing the same things repetitively. When my Sim witnessed his spouse cheat on him with another guy, he got Angry and walked away from them, when he had a divorce with his Spouse, they walked away from each other, both Sad, in fact the Spouse went to bed and cried under the sheets, then his best friend came to cheer him up but he got angry at her(his tone of voice was angry/annoyed), their Child was also Sad and sat at the dinner table alone for a while and another example, when my Sims witnessed a Sim die, they got a little Sad, but one of them was the enemy of the dying Sim and he felt Happy about it, just an example of how they react appropriately to the behaviour of other Sims and certain events that occur, and people react differently towards the behaviour of other people, appropriately or not, there's not just one way of reacting to certain behaviour. Really? My Sims that live downstairs usually go to the downstairs toilet and my Sims that live upstairs go to the upstairs toilet. My Loner Sims always feel Tense when around Sims they don't know, especially when talking to Sims they don't know, in TS4, my Loner Sims never talk to other Sims unless he is friends with them. My Sims with the Slob Traits pick up the dishes too, but then put them down on the table that's farther away from the Sink lol, she almost never takes Showers or Baths autonomously either, also how is going to the Gym and using the equipment there a bad thing for Sims with the Slob Trait? My Mean Sims often autonomously use the Mean or Mischief interactions and I have to stop them from making enemies of their own friends. As for enemies, in my game I have two types, ones that are usually mean to each other and ones that are sometimes nice to each other, there's more than one way to deal with enemies, it's the same in real life, you can have an enemy without hating the life out of them, heck, you can even be romantically involved with your enemy, it's not unnatural. In the end, everyone has a different experience with the game, I guess my experience just turns out to be more positive and fulfilling than yours.

    You don't need to be rude, everyone has their own perspectives and opinions, some people think The Sims 4 in itself is perfect compared to previous instalments, some think it's half baked, it's all a matter of opinion, you might see a person and think they're perfect while another person feels the complete opposite about them.

    You point out examples of when you have seen sims behave in a way that is logical with their traits, but that is not discount all the numerous times they do not. There are far too many instances of sims' traits having no effect on behaviour; there are far too maby instances of sims A.I. appearing to be unresponsive and not intelligent.


    If traits in 4 are so effective, please tell me why I see townie slob sims at the gym all the time? Why do they clean up after themselves?

    Why do mean sims not act mean? Why do they smile at other sims?

    Why do good sims do mean things spontaneously?

    Why do loner sims not react when they are using the bathroom and a gang of other sims all enter to use the facilitates and then start a group conversation, even though there are 3 other bathrooms empty? In The Sims 3, when another sim entered the bathroom a loner sim was using they would refuse to use the facilities and they would tell the other sim to leave. In 4, they do nothing.

    Why does my sim smile and have a normal conversation with the sim she has declared as an enemy? This happens all the time, surely that is not working as intended? What's the point of declaring an enemy if your sim still treats them the same as any other sim?

    Why are emotions so manic?

    How can a nicely decorated house remove the sadness my sim is feeling for the loss of a loved one?

    Any rudeness you see in my post is entirely in your own mind. Why is it on this forum someone is being rude, if they simply do not think the game is very good and point things out that do not match other's views?

    It is not rude to point these things out as examples of how the sims in 4 are not intelligent. If the sims in 4 were the most intelligent sims there had ever been, do you really think there would be so many complaints about 4 on these forums?

    I could live with the closed world, lack of CAST etc. if I could see that the sims were amazing. But they aren't. The game seems aimed at teenagers to me.



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    Prink34320Prink34320 Posts: 5,078 Member
    edited November 2015
    Prink34320 wrote: »
    Really, 4 is about perfecting the sims themselves?

    The sims in 4 are the most unintelligent since The Sims 1, a game that was released 15 years ago.

    The traits in 4 affect little and the sims all act pretty much the same: manic. They do not react appropriately to the behaviour of other sims; they all use the same bathroom when there are empty ones, and loner sims do not react at all to this. Slob sims clean up after themselves, go to the gym and happily use the equipment there. Mean sims are not mean. Enemy sims smile at each and have normal conversations.

    If you think the sims in 4 are an attempt at perfection, I'd hate to see what you regard as mediocrity.

    That's an exaggeration, I'd say The Sims 4 are smart, I left my Sims to do whatever they wanted for one day and they ended up raising their relationships, increasing the Skills they need for a Promotion(although they have already been working on those Skills before) and tended to their needs, they're pretty much survivalists, they won't go down easy, that's pretty intelligent in my opinion, although I love my TS3 Sims, when I tried this on them, they ended up just standing in one place for several Sim hours, but it was funny to see the Cat and Dog tear up their expensive sofas while they stood there lol

    The Traits affect quite a bit, at least in my opinion, more than the previous instalments did with their Traits. If you have a Sim with a certain Trait, they can feel certain bursts of Emotion, become better at certain Skills or categories of Skills, they also have exclusive interactions. Lazy Sims will never run far distances, Crazy Sims can talk to themselves to fulfil their Social Need, Romantic Sims will have a better chance at getting into a Romantic Relationship, Outgoing Sims will have a better chance at getting into a Friendly Relationship, Squeamish Sims will act squirmy around certain things like insects or death etc. My Sims have so far never acted the same, even when I force them into doing the same things repetitively. When my Sim witnessed his spouse cheat on him with another guy, he got Angry and walked away from them, when he had a divorce with his Spouse, they walked away from each other, both Sad, in fact the Spouse went to bed and cried under the sheets, then his best friend came to cheer him up but he got angry at her(his tone of voice was angry/annoyed), their Child was also Sad and sat at the dinner table alone for a while and another example, when my Sims witnessed a Sim die, they got a little Sad, but one of them was the enemy of the dying Sim and he felt Happy about it, just an example of how they react appropriately to the behaviour of other Sims and certain events that occur, and people react differently towards the behaviour of other people, appropriately or not, there's not just one way of reacting to certain behaviour. Really? My Sims that live downstairs usually go to the downstairs toilet and my Sims that live upstairs go to the upstairs toilet. My Loner Sims always feel Tense when around Sims they don't know, especially when talking to Sims they don't know, in TS4, my Loner Sims never talk to other Sims unless he is friends with them. My Sims with the Slob Traits pick up the dishes too, but then put them down on the table that's farther away from the Sink lol, she almost never takes Showers or Baths autonomously either, also how is going to the Gym and using the equipment there a bad thing for Sims with the Slob Trait? My Mean Sims often autonomously use the Mean or Mischief interactions and I have to stop them from making enemies of their own friends. As for enemies, in my game I have two types, ones that are usually mean to each other and ones that are sometimes nice to each other, there's more than one way to deal with enemies, it's the same in real life, you can have an enemy without hating the life out of them, heck, you can even be romantically involved with your enemy, it's not unnatural. In the end, everyone has a different experience with the game, I guess my experience just turns out to be more positive and fulfilling than yours.

    You don't need to be rude, everyone has their own perspectives and opinions, some people think The Sims 4 in itself is perfect compared to previous instalments, some think it's half baked, it's all a matter of opinion, you might see a person and think they're perfect while another person feels the complete opposite about them.

    You point out examples of when you have seen sims behave in a way that is logical with their traits, but that is not discount all the numerous times they do not. There are far too many instances of sims' traits having no effect on behaviour; there are far too maby instances of sims A.I. appearing to be unresponsive and not intelligent.


    If traits in 4 are so effective, please tell me why I see townie slob sims at the gym all the time? Why do they clean up after themselves?

    Why do mean sims not act mean? Why do they smile at other sims?

    Why do good sims do mean things spontaneously?

    Why do loner sims not react when they are using the bathroom and a gang of other sims all enter to use the facilitates and then start a group conversation, even though there are 3 other bathrooms empty? In The Sims 3, when another sim entered the bathroom a loner sim was using they would refuse to use the facilities and they would tell the other sim to leave. In 4, they do nothing.

    Why does my sim smile and have a normal conversation with the sim she has declared as an enemy? This happens all the time, surely that is not working as intended? What's the point of declaring an enemy if your sim still treats them the same as any other sim?

    Why are emotions so manic?

    How can a nicely decorated house remove the sadness my sim is feeling for the loss of a loved one?

    Any rudeness you see in my post is entirely in your own mind. Why is it on this forum someone is being rude, if they simply do not think the game is very good and point things out that do not match other's views?

    It is not rude to point these things out as examples of how the sims in 4 are not intelligent. If the sims in 4 were the most intelligent sims there had ever been, do you really think there would be so many complaints about 4 on these forums?

    I could live with the closed world, lack of CAST etc. if I could see that the sims were amazing. But they aren't. The game seems aimed at teenagers to me.



    Well I have not seen Sims act against their Traits very often and even so, Active people in real life can be lazy, Lazy people in real life can still exercise and enjoy it etc. There's more to Personality Traits than actions and descriptions. I've never had the problem of Sims A.I. being unresponsive or unintelligent, they're pretty intelligent if they try to survive and fulfil their needs and work on the Skills they need for Promotions in Careers whilst doing a better job than the player at maintaining relationships(I find it difficult managing relationships if I focus on Careers lol) at least in my opinion they are.

    I can't tell you what's happening in your game, I can only tell you what's happening in mine, so far Traits work effectively in my game but yes I do see Slobs at the Gym and I see them clean up after themselves sometimes, I don't really understand why it's weird to see Slobs at the Gym, I know I've seen a few in real life at Gyms and just because they can clean up after themselves doesn't mean they aren't Slobs, in real life you can be a Slob and still be forced to clean up after yourself, you can even be Neat and leave things dirty until you decide to clean them, there's more to Traits than actions and descriptions, you can be a Slob, but that doesn't mean you'll never or can't clean up after yourself.

    Being Mean doesn't mean you can't smile, even Mean people are Happy, there are people are pretty mean at high school and are rude to some people and sometimes to their own friends, but they're also nice to some people, just because you're mean doesn't mean you're not selectively nice, there are layers to personality traits. You can be Mean to one person and nice to the other, to the person you're mean to, they perceive you as a mean person, to the person you are nice to, they perceive you as a nice person. Having the Mean Trait doesn't mean or justify that you have to be Mean all the time and can't be nice.

    Being Good has always been a subjective thing, you can perceive yourself as being good even if you are mean to people, others can perceive you as being Good even if you're sometimes mean to them, being Good doesn't mean you can't be bad sometimes.

    I've never experienced that exact thing happen in my game, so far my Sims autonomously use the empty bathrooms, and in both TS3 and TS4, if Sims needed to use the bathroom, they'd shoo whoever was in the bathroom. I've never had Sims talk to each other while doing business in either TS3 or TS4, so I'm not completely sure of that situation. I've never seen the instance of a Sim using the bathroom while other Sims, apart from their Love Interests are in the bathroom.

    So far my Sims barely interact with their enemies and when they do interact, I usually see their relationship bar decreasing, sometimes when a Sim has a enemy, I see their relationship increasing. Personally I like that Relationships don't dictate how Sims act towards each other, in real life, enemies can still be friends(Frenemies) and enemies can still have a good chat with one another and even become friends after spending some time together, it's not unnatural to see two enemies having a good conversation with each other, just as it's not unnatural to not to see such an occurrence.

    Not sure what you mean by 'manic'.

    I don't know about that one, I guess I'm just lucky not to decorate my Sim's home, that's not a problem with Traits but a problem with Moodlets.

    I didn't perceive your last comment as rude based on your opinion of the game, to me it just sounds rude to say "If you think that's good, I'd hate to see what you'd think is bad" which to me sounds like sarcasm and an implication that the poster you're replying to has bad taste. So I apologize if that wasn't your intention.

    There would be complaints on the forums regardless of the Sims themselves, even though The Sims 3 had a great world, there is evidently allot of complaints about the worlds in the game. Obviously the intelligence of Sims is subjective, some say TS4 Sims are the smartest, some say TS3, some TS2 and chances are there are even a few who'd say TS1. It's all based on opinion and I don't really see how the intelligence of Sims is the reason for why people complain about Bugs, Glitches, lack of features present in previous games or the bad culling mechanic when they have nothing to do with a Sim's intelligence.

    To me, they are amazing which is why I love The Sims 4, also, the game is intended for Mature Audiences, Teenagers and older can easily fit in that category, there might be an intended age group for the game but that doesn't change the fact that a game's rating doesn't mean it's not entertaining for several or all age groups, I'm a Teenager and I love this game, I know people who are younger than me, Children, who play this game and even people older than me, adults and elderly who also play this game. To me, The Sims is a game that is aimed at every age group that can play the game maturely.

    Oh yeah and one last thing, I love how Traits don't restrict what Sims can do and how Emotions can sometimes change randomly, personally I find it fun to see my Sims act strangely in different situations, makes for good story telling without creating restriction on how I play with my Sims.
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    blueturtleotterblueturtleotter Posts: 867 Member
    edited November 2015
    Prink34320 wrote: »
    Prink34320 wrote: »
    Really, 4 is about perfecting the sims themselves?

    The sims in 4 are the most unintelligent since The Sims 1, a game that was released 15 years ago.

    The traits in 4 affect little and the sims all act pretty much the same: manic. They do not react appropriately to the behaviour of other sims; they all use the same bathroom when there are empty ones, and loner sims do not react at all to this. Slob sims clean up after themselves, go to the gym and happily use the equipment there. Mean sims are not mean. Enemy sims smile at each and have normal conversations.

    If you think the sims in 4 are an attempt at perfection, I'd hate to see what you regard as mediocrity.

    That's an exaggeration, I'd say The Sims 4 are smart, I left my Sims to do whatever they wanted for one day and they ended up raising their relationships, increasing the Skills they need for a Promotion(although they have already been working on those Skills before) and tended to their needs, they're pretty much survivalists, they won't go down easy, that's pretty intelligent in my opinion, although I love my TS3 Sims, when I tried this on them, they ended up just standing in one place for several Sim hours, but it was funny to see the Cat and Dog tear up their expensive sofas while they stood there lol

    The Traits affect quite a bit, at least in my opinion, more than the previous instalments did with their Traits. If you have a Sim with a certain Trait, they can feel certain bursts of Emotion, become better at certain Skills or categories of Skills, they also have exclusive interactions. Lazy Sims will never run far distances, Crazy Sims can talk to themselves to fulfil their Social Need, Romantic Sims will have a better chance at getting into a Romantic Relationship, Outgoing Sims will have a better chance at getting into a Friendly Relationship, Squeamish Sims will act squirmy around certain things like insects or death etc. My Sims have so far never acted the same, even when I force them into doing the same things repetitively. When my Sim witnessed his spouse cheat on him with another guy, he got Angry and walked away from them, when he had a divorce with his Spouse, they walked away from each other, both Sad, in fact the Spouse went to bed and cried under the sheets, then his best friend came to cheer him up but he got angry at her(his tone of voice was angry/annoyed), their Child was also Sad and sat at the dinner table alone for a while and another example, when my Sims witnessed a Sim die, they got a little Sad, but one of them was the enemy of the dying Sim and he felt Happy about it, just an example of how they react appropriately to the behaviour of other Sims and certain events that occur, and people react differently towards the behaviour of other people, appropriately or not, there's not just one way of reacting to certain behaviour. Really? My Sims that live downstairs usually go to the downstairs toilet and my Sims that live upstairs go to the upstairs toilet. My Loner Sims always feel Tense when around Sims they don't know, especially when talking to Sims they don't know, in TS4, my Loner Sims never talk to other Sims unless he is friends with them. My Sims with the Slob Traits pick up the dishes too, but then put them down on the table that's farther away from the Sink lol, she almost never takes Showers or Baths autonomously either, also how is going to the Gym and using the equipment there a bad thing for Sims with the Slob Trait? My Mean Sims often autonomously use the Mean or Mischief interactions and I have to stop them from making enemies of their own friends. As for enemies, in my game I have two types, ones that are usually mean to each other and ones that are sometimes nice to each other, there's more than one way to deal with enemies, it's the same in real life, you can have an enemy without hating the life out of them, heck, you can even be romantically involved with your enemy, it's not unnatural. In the end, everyone has a different experience with the game, I guess my experience just turns out to be more positive and fulfilling than yours.

    You don't need to be rude, everyone has their own perspectives and opinions, some people think The Sims 4 in itself is perfect compared to previous instalments, some think it's half baked, it's all a matter of opinion, you might see a person and think they're perfect while another person feels the complete opposite about them.

    You point out examples of when you have seen sims behave in a way that is logical with their traits, but that is not discount all the numerous times they do not. There are far too many instances of sims' traits having no effect on behaviour; there are far too maby instances of sims A.I. appearing to be unresponsive and not intelligent.


    If traits in 4 are so effective, please tell me why I see townie slob sims at the gym all the time? Why do they clean up after themselves?

    Why do mean sims not act mean? Why do they smile at other sims?

    Why do good sims do mean things spontaneously?

    Why do loner sims not react when they are using the bathroom and a gang of other sims all enter to use the facilitates and then start a group conversation, even though there are 3 other bathrooms empty? In The Sims 3, when another sim entered the bathroom a loner sim was using they would refuse to use the facilities and they would tell the other sim to leave. In 4, they do nothing.

    Why does my sim smile and have a normal conversation with the sim she has declared as an enemy? This happens all the time, surely that is not working as intended? What's the point of declaring an enemy if your sim still treats them the same as any other sim?

    Why are emotions so manic?

    How can a nicely decorated house remove the sadness my sim is feeling for the loss of a loved one?

    Any rudeness you see in my post is entirely in your own mind. Why is it on this forum someone is being rude, if they simply do not think the game is very good and point things out that do not match other's views?

    It is not rude to point these things out as examples of how the sims in 4 are not intelligent. If the sims in 4 were the most intelligent sims there had ever been, do you really think there would be so many complaints about 4 on these forums?

    I could live with the closed world, lack of CAST etc. if I could see that the sims were amazing. But they aren't. The game seems aimed at teenagers to me.



    Well I have not seen Sims act against their Traits very often and even so, Active people in real life can be lazy, Lazy people in real life can still exercise and enjoy it etc. There's more to Personality Traits than actions and descriptions. I've never had the problem of Sims A.I. being unresponsive or unintelligent, they're pretty intelligent if they try to survive and fulfil their needs and work on the Skills they need for Promotions in Careers whilst doing a better job than the player at maintaining relationships(I find it difficult managing relationships if I focus on Careers lol) at least in my opinion they are.

    I can't tell you what's happening in your game, I can only tell you what's happening in mine, so far Traits work effectively in my game but yes I do see Slobs at the Gym and I see them clean up after themselves sometimes, I don't really understand why it's weird to see Slobs at the Gym, I know I've seen a few in real life at Gyms and just because they can clean up after themselves doesn't mean they aren't Slobs, in real life you can be a Slob and still be forced to clean up after yourself, you can even be Neat and leave things dirty until you decide to clean them, there's more to Traits than actions and descriptions, you can be a Slob, but that doesn't mean you'll never or can't clean up after yourself.

    Being Mean doesn't mean you can't smile, even Mean people are Happy, there are people are pretty mean at high school and are rude to some people and sometimes to their own friends, but they're also nice to some people, just because you're mean doesn't mean you're not selectively nice, there are layers to personality traits. You can be Mean to one person and nice to the other, to the person you're mean to, they perceive you as a mean person, to the person you are nice to, they perceive you as a nice person. Having the Mean Trait doesn't mean or justify that you have to be Mean all the time and can't be nice.

    Being Good has always been a subjective thing, you can perceive yourself as being good even if you are mean to people, others can perceive you as being Good even if you're sometimes mean to them, being Good doesn't mean you can't be bad sometimes.

    I've never experienced that exact thing happen in my game, so far my Sims autonomously use the empty bathrooms, and in both TS3 and TS4, if Sims needed to use the bathroom, they'd shoo whoever was in the bathroom. I've never had Sims talk to each other while doing business in either TS3 or TS4, so I'm not completely sure of that situation. I've never seen the instance of a Sim using the bathroom while other Sims, apart from their Love Interests are in the bathroom.

    So far my Sims barely interact with their enemies and when they do interact, I usually see their relationship bar decreasing, sometimes when a Sim has a enemy, I see their relationship increasing. Personally I like that Relationships don't dictate how Sims act towards each other, in real life, enemies can still be friends(Frenemies) and enemies can still have a good chat with one another and even become friends after spending some time together, it's not unnatural to see two enemies having a good conversation with each other, just as it's not unnatural to not to see such an occurrence.

    Not sure what you mean by 'manic'.

    I don't know about that one, I guess I'm just lucky not to decorate my Sim's home, that's not a problem with Traits but a problem with Moodlets.

    I didn't perceive your last comment as rude based on your opinion of the game, to me it just sounds rude to say "If you think that's good, I'd hate to see what you'd think is bad" which to me sounds like sarcasm and an implication that the poster you're replying to has bad taste. So I apologize if that wasn't your intention.

    There would be complaints on the forums regardless of the Sims themselves, even though The Sims 3 had a great world, there is evidently allot of complaints about the worlds in the game. Obviously the intelligence of Sims is subjective, some say TS4 Sims are the smartest, some say TS3, some TS2 and chances are there are even a few who'd say TS1. It's all based on opinion and I don't really see how the intelligence of Sims is the reason for why people complain about Bugs, Glitches, lack of features present in previous games or the bad culling mechanic when they have nothing to do with a Sim's intelligence.

    To me, they are amazing which is why I love The Sims 4, also, the game is intended for Mature Audiences, Teenagers and older can easily fit in that category, there might be an intended age group for the game but that doesn't change the fact that a game's rating doesn't mean it's not entertaining for several or all age groups, I'm a Teenager and I love this game, I know people who are younger than me, Children, who play this game and even people older than me, adults and elderly who also play this game. To me, The Sims is a game that is aimed at every age group that can play the game maturely.

    Oh yeah and one last thing, I love how Traits don't restrict what Sims can do and how Emotions can sometimes change randomly, personally I find it fun to see my Sims act strangely in different situations, makes for good story telling without creating restriction on how I play with my Sims.

    No, I wasn't being sarcastic. I literally meant what I wrote: I would hate to see what the OP regarded as mediocre if he/she thinks that the sims in 4 are an attempt at perfection, as I think even people like yourself who like the game feel there is room for improvement and that there are still problems.

    I just cannot see how the OP has the idea s/he has. Now, if they had said that 2 was an attempt at perfecting the sims themselves and 3 the world, I could see the logic and understand how one could come to that conclusion. But to think this with 4. No, I can't see how anyone could possibly think that, especially when we had a well publicised and documented collection of evidence 6 months or so ago showing that sims would not react to anything including deaths. The Gurus even commented about the thread.

    By manic, what I meant was that the sims emotions change at an incredible rate. One minute embarrassed, then tense, then flirty etc. It's too fast for me and makes all sims seem neurotic.

    You ask what is the problem with a slob sim being at the gym. Slobs are not just messy, they are idle. To me, it seems ridiculous that a slob who does not bother about their own personal hygiene would go to the gym.

    I am happy you enjoy the game.

    I'm hoping it reaches a point where I will too. I'd love to be able to enjoy 4 as I do actually like the graphics, the gallery, and build mode; but not the actual sim gameplay. I just don't feel as though I can make the sims I want as they do not behave how I expect them to with regards to the traits I set.
    Post edited by blueturtleotter on
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    blueturtleotterblueturtleotter Posts: 867 Member
    edited November 2015
    Really, 4 is about perfecting the sims themselves?

    The sims in 4 are the most unintelligent since The Sims 1, a game that was released 15 years ago.

    The traits in 4 affect little and the sims all act pretty much the same: manic. They do not react appropriately to the behaviour of other sims; they all use the same bathroom when there are empty ones, and loner sims do not react at all to this. Slob sims clean up after themselves, go to the gym and happily use the equipment there. Mean sims are not mean. Enemy sims smile at each and have normal conversations.

    If you think the sims in 4 are an attempt at perfection, I'd hate to see what you regard as mediocrity.

    As I said in my post, it’s just a little theory that they tried making the Sims in 4 perfect. I also said that they are “supposedly smarter”. Nowhere in my post did I say that I believe that they are the smarter Sims or that they are perfect. It’s just a theory, an idea. Also, I would not know about the intelligence of the Sims in Sims 1 because as I stated in my post “I never played the first Sims”.

    Do you not ever just think to yourself and wonder why something is done the way it is? I do. The Sims 4 does seem, to me, to be more focused on the Sims, and not much else so I just wonder about reasons why they done that. I just decided to share this thought.

    In response to your comment "if you think the sims in 4 are an attempt at perfection, I’d hate to see what regard as mediocrity”, like I have said multiple times I, personally, do not think the Sims in 4 are perfect, it’s just one of many of the theories that I have as to why so much effort was put into them. Maybe EA or whoever created them tried to make them perfect and quite obviously failed at that.

    I also referred to the Sims 4 as a “little train wreck”, that only should give you some clue as to my actual feelings about the game.

    I responded the way I did because I could not fathom how you came to speculate that 4 was an attempt to perfect the sims themselves, due to the well publicised problems with them and the revelation of Olympus. To me, and others, maxis appear to have put little effort into anything with 4, especially the sims themselves.

    The sims in 4 since release have been the subject of complaints due to their poor A.I. There was a long thread about 6 months ago where people were documenting their sims complete and utter lack of intelligence and reaction to the behaviour of other sims. This thread was even commented upon by the Guru's who admitted it was a problem and that they were working on changing the reactions.

    If the sims in 4 were an attempt at perfection, surely they would have been amazing from day one with no issues? If they had been, then I could understand why you'd think they had spent all their time perfecting the sims at the expense of everything else. But they were not perfect at launch. And they are still (to many players) far from perfect now.

    The reason all aspects of 4 are so lacking is because Maxis were originally making an online game called Olympus. After the disastrous launch of Sim City, Maxis realised there was no market for an online simulation game - the fans simply prefer offline. They scrapped the Olympus project and instead of starting from scratch to make The Sims 4, they instead spent a year converting Olympus into 4. That is the reason for the lack of content and detail in everything.
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    GalacticGalGalacticGal Posts: 28,800 Member
    In the Sims 3 we had an open world, but the Sims were not good. So maybe with the Sims 4 they are trying to get the Sims right before attempting another big thing like an open world.
    This is insightful. From your lips (keyboard) to EAs ears (eyes). May it be so!

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