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Is this enough proof that The Sims 4 is a flop?

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  • lovejess2lovejess2 Posts: 3,049 Member
    It's not the game that caused it to flop it was the poor marketing. Look sales don't show quality it shows how well a business can market it's product. Sims 2 had a great product to market so it made the process a whole lot easier Sims 3 was not a good game on release with myriad bugs and lacking content but it was marketed extremely well creating a build up to the release and on release it out sold sims 2. Sims 4 had the worst marketing imaginable there were no advertisements or anything showcasing game play so it could of been an amazing game but it still would of sold dirt nothing.
  • Wildley CuriousWildley Curious Posts: 5,349 Member
    Erpe wrote: »
    LaAbby wrote: »
    Shadoza2 wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
    Yes everybody have the right to say whatever they want. But this isn't the issue here ;)

    My problem with the discussion in this forum is that people apparently think that they can threaten EA by saying "If I don't get toddlers now then I won't pay you about $30 for the next EP/GP and I know that a few others won't buy it either! And then you will go bankruptcy because you won't be able to pay the wages for your 8400 employees!" But you don't even buy enough games to pay even the wages for a single one of those 8400 employees. To think that you are able to threaten EA by having a few hundred simmers to not pay EA $30 each is just poor math because EA's income is about $4,000,000,000 each year. You just overestimate your power so hugely that it is nothing but laughable ;)

    For clarity, the 4 billion is not income, it is revenue.

    The Sims franchise is developed by Maxis which is privately held--meaning financial reports are not available to the public. Maxis revenue is likely no where near the billion mark and they do not have that many employees.

    Since The Sims franchise is not a cash cow to EA, it is possible that EA will sell the franchise if it proves unprofitable or draws too much negativity from the target consumers.

    One drop of water does not make an ocean; however, many drops coming together does.

    I bet if EA sold maxis and the sims there would be a few developers wanting to buy the sims franchise since there is no game like it. For one Bethesda likes the sims and used sims like features in Fall Out Shelter.

    I would sincerely love it if a good company bought the sims <3 or at least a company that wants to do something good with it. Clearly the sims has been lost, and this new idea of theirs is such a mess. At this point, I just want something fun and different than S4. A combo of 2 & 3 would have been really nice.

    Me too and the best of 2 and 3 features with add and change some game play so we would not have the exact game play from 2 and 3 would have been great. Im not looking to have the same exact games as previous but I definitely don't want the game we have now. :p
    We can wonder why nobody made a clone of TS1 even though that game sold extremely well and didn't need very much technology to clone 12 to 14 years ago. In those days it would probably have been very profitable to make such a clone. But for some reason nobody did it anyway.

    Today another game company would have only two unattractive choices though:
    1. To make a smaller but similar game. But such a game probably wouldn't sell very well.
    2. To make a similar game and about as big as TS3 or TS4. But to do that today from scratch would probably cost hundreds of millions of dollars. To risk such a game becoming a flop is just not worth it at a time where PC games don't sell very well anymore.

    So the game companies are moving on to other platforms instead. Only a few games are still made for the PC and they are nearly all just new versions of wellknown bestsellers which don't have much risk for flopping. PC gaming is slowly dying.

    If they made it right it would not flop. There are people still buying the sims 3 game that never played before. Why is he sims 3 still selling?

    I will respectfully disagree with you about PC gaming. GTA V was originally made for console. They made it better on PC. Fall Out has a PC version not only console that will be out soon. Start a survey in here and ask how many game hoard on Steam and have several steam games for PC. People who like to mod prefer PC games over console.

    The sims games on PC is always better than console or app versions
    Absolutely true. And if your read the Steam and Nexus forums a lot of folks are moving from consoles to pc's because of the incredible modding that is available now. It keeps the games new and re-playable and allows you to enter a whole new level of gaming. AJ Velicky was 19 when he created the Falskaar mod for Skyrim, and it landed him a job at Bungie doing story, level and gameplay design. Modding rocks!
    “I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
    ― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
  • nanashi-simsnanashi-sims Posts: 4,140 Member
    edited September 2015
    lovejess2 wrote: »
    It's not the game that caused it to flop it was the poor marketing. Look sales don't show quality it shows how well a business can market it's product. Sims 2 had a great product to market so it made the process a whole lot easier Sims 3 was not a good game on release with myriad bugs and lacking content but it was marketed extremely well creating a build up to the release and on release it out sold sims 2. Sims 4 had the worst marketing imaginable there were no advertisements or anything showcasing game play so it could of been an amazing game but it still would of sold dirt nothing.

    I agree. It was an terrible marketing campaign. And it worsened with the layoffs and the game issues. That being said, the game itself when it was released received a lot of negative press. And since reviewers were snubbed before launch, I think there was a bit of schadenfreude in the tone of their reviews as they outlined all of the game issues. With almost no hype beforehand, and players and reviewers blasting the game shortly afterwards, it only makes sense that it would affect sales.

    GTW was the best campaign to date.

    I think they announced GT too early and shot themselves in the foot again as there seems to be a gag order on the game, Gamescon was a repeat of what everyone already saw online and an awkward dance show, and there's really nothing else to be said about it--except now that interview has fired up fans to literally break their TS4 games in pieces. I don't believe this kind of bad press is good press at all.
  • sparkfairy1sparkfairy1 Posts: 11,453 Member
    Tel
    lovejess2 wrote: »
    It's not the game that caused it to flop it was the poor marketing. Look sales don't show quality it shows how well a business can market it's product. Sims 2 had a great product to market so it made the process a whole lot easier Sims 3 was not a good game on release with myriad bugs and lacking content but it was marketed extremely well creating a build up to the release and on release it out sold sims 2. Sims 4 had the worst marketing imaginable there were no advertisements or anything showcasing game play so it could of been an amazing game but it still would of sold dirt nothing.

    Sadly it's not just the marketing. Wasting so much development time and money on Olympus and the subsequent cuts to the base had a huge effect too.

    Existing sims fans tend to be very loyal-that's why so many of us bought despite the issues and tried to hope and wait for better so they actually don't require a lot of advertising costs for existing loyal customers because we do the work for them in the good times-we share things on social media etc but then when people aren't particularly happy that's not great because people see the issues.

    New customers do need a lot of advertising and EA have cut marketing budgets savagely in the past year to boost the profit margins of the company. With the poor reviews and excuses from developers due to the cuts that doesn't help either. Because people do research what they buy especially when it's new to them.

    The marketing has been odd too. I mean what is that video with those teens in real life?! You can't even do most of the stuff they get up to in that trailer and there is no game play video in it. Sims gameplay trailers used to be among the most creative and impressive adverts I'd ever seen! It's a shame they've not made use of that talent more often around TS4. At least the trailer for Get together is gameplay based.
  • lovejess2lovejess2 Posts: 3,049 Member
    Tel
    lovejess2 wrote: »
    It's not the game that caused it to flop it was the poor marketing. Look sales don't show quality it shows how well a business can market it's product. Sims 2 had a great product to market so it made the process a whole lot easier Sims 3 was not a good game on release with myriad bugs and lacking content but it was marketed extremely well creating a build up to the release and on release it out sold sims 2. Sims 4 had the worst marketing imaginable there were no advertisements or anything showcasing game play so it could of been an amazing game but it still would of sold dirt nothing.

    Sadly it's not just the marketing. Wasting so much development time and money on Olympus and the subsequent cuts to the base had a huge effect too.

    Existing sims fans tend to be very loyal-that's why so many of us bought despite the issues and tried to hope and wait for better so they actually don't require a lot of advertising costs for existing loyal customers because we do the work for them in the good times-we share things on social media etc but then when people aren't particularly happy that's not great because people see the issues.

    New customers do need a lot of advertising and EA have cut marketing budgets savagely in the past year to boost the profit margins of the company. With the poor reviews and excuses from developers due to the cuts that doesn't help either. Because people do research what they buy especially when it's new to them.

    The marketing has been odd too. I mean what is that video with those teens in real life?! You can't even do most of the stuff they get up to in that trailer and there is no game play video in it. Sims gameplay trailers used to be among the most creative and impressive adverts I'd ever seen! It's a shame they've not made use of that talent more often around TS4. At least the trailer for Get together is gameplay based.

    Yeah I believe Olympus had a lot to do with it as well (not sure if I should of brought it up) to me it wasn't a budget constraint it would of been more of a time constraint they would of been running around like headless chooks a week before the release that they couldn't have had the chance to market the product especially since the release kept getting pushed back. Another thing would of been just maybe a shear lack of motivation they probably knew they screwed up big time and just thought that the problem may fix itself.
  • AyumapAyumap Posts: 3,425 Member
    edited September 2015
    As long as it turned a profit I wouldn't consider it a financial flop. I can imagine it was dissapointing to see it didn't sell as well as past base games though.

    That said, I feel like it also matters how well dlc is going to sell for this game. Let's say the base sold 2m unreturned copies. How many of those people bought GTW? How many will buy GT? How many will buy future content?

    As long as there are "enough" people buying to make a profit vs the cost I don't technically think it's a flop, assuming that profit is enough to justify the time spent on the project. If more money could be made working on something else, would't you consider a change of priorties? Maybe you could even transfer labor to another project and still maintain enough of a profit until said project is finised.

    If you expected "more" though, then yes I'd consider it a "flop" in comparision.

    All in all it doesn't really matter until EA decides it's not making enough to be of interest. They could easily decide it's time to try and profit off of a new sims base game or spin off.

    The sims mobile seems to be making a nice chunk of money from all the major updates it gets.

    I'm just speculating of course. There are a lot of "ifs" we'll never have real answers to and a lot we'll only realize in hindsight.
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    *There's nothing wrong with loving the Sims 4, there's also nothing wrong with seeking improvements.
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  • sparkfairy1sparkfairy1 Posts: 11,453 Member
    lovejess2 wrote: »
    Tel
    lovejess2 wrote: »
    It's not the game that caused it to flop it was the poor marketing. Look sales don't show quality it shows how well a business can market it's product. Sims 2 had a great product to market so it made the process a whole lot easier Sims 3 was not a good game on release with myriad bugs and lacking content but it was marketed extremely well creating a build up to the release and on release it out sold sims 2. Sims 4 had the worst marketing imaginable there were no advertisements or anything showcasing game play so it could of been an amazing game but it still would of sold dirt nothing.

    Sadly it's not just the marketing. Wasting so much development time and money on Olympus and the subsequent cuts to the base had a huge effect too.

    Existing sims fans tend to be very loyal-that's why so many of us bought despite the issues and tried to hope and wait for better so they actually don't require a lot of advertising costs for existing loyal customers because we do the work for them in the good times-we share things on social media etc but then when people aren't particularly happy that's not great because people see the issues.

    New customers do need a lot of advertising and EA have cut marketing budgets savagely in the past year to boost the profit margins of the company. With the poor reviews and excuses from developers due to the cuts that doesn't help either. Because people do research what they buy especially when it's new to them.

    The marketing has been odd too. I mean what is that video with those teens in real life?! You can't even do most of the stuff they get up to in that trailer and there is no game play video in it. Sims gameplay trailers used to be among the most creative and impressive adverts I'd ever seen! It's a shame they've not made use of that talent more often around TS4. At least the trailer for Get together is gameplay based.

    Yeah I believe Olympus had a lot to do with it as well (not sure if I should of brought it up) to me it wasn't a budget constraint it would of been more of a time constraint they would of been running around like headless chooks a week before the release that they couldn't have had the chance to market the product especially since the release kept getting pushed back. Another thing would of been just maybe a shear lack of motivation they probably knew they screwed up big time and just thought that the problem may fix itself.

    All of those sound quite likely. Sad really :(
    What I mean by budget financially though is in my opinion EA should have absorbed the loss caused by the Olympus mistake and given more money to retain staff (they let some go) and with more staff they could have got more done in that time. Still wouldn't have been perfect but it may have been less features to miss you know? Then post release they should have had a small dedicated team for finishing what they ran out of time for.
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    Erpe wrote: »
    LaAbby wrote: »
    Shadoza2 wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
    Yes everybody have the right to say whatever they want. But this isn't the issue here ;)

    My problem with the discussion in this forum is that people apparently think that they can threaten EA by saying "If I don't get toddlers now then I won't pay you about $30 for the next EP/GP and I know that a few others won't buy it either! And then you will go bankruptcy because you won't be able to pay the wages for your 8400 employees!" But you don't even buy enough games to pay even the wages for a single one of those 8400 employees. To think that you are able to threaten EA by having a few hundred simmers to not pay EA $30 each is just poor math because EA's income is about $4,000,000,000 each year. You just overestimate your power so hugely that it is nothing but laughable ;)

    For clarity, the 4 billion is not income, it is revenue.

    The Sims franchise is developed by Maxis which is privately held--meaning financial reports are not available to the public. Maxis revenue is likely no where near the billion mark and they do not have that many employees.

    Since The Sims franchise is not a cash cow to EA, it is possible that EA will sell the franchise if it proves unprofitable or draws too much negativity from the target consumers.

    One drop of water does not make an ocean; however, many drops coming together does.

    I bet if EA sold maxis and the sims there would be a few developers wanting to buy the sims franchise since there is no game like it. For one Bethesda likes the sims and used sims like features in Fall Out Shelter.

    I would sincerely love it if a good company bought the sims <3 or at least a company that wants to do something good with it. Clearly the sims has been lost, and this new idea of theirs is such a mess. At this point, I just want something fun and different than S4. A combo of 2 & 3 would have been really nice.

    Me too and the best of 2 and 3 features with add and change some game play so we would not have the exact game play from 2 and 3 would have been great. Im not looking to have the same exact games as previous but I definitely don't want the game we have now. :p
    We can wonder why nobody made a clone of TS1 even though that game sold extremely well and didn't need very much technology to clone 12 to 14 years ago. In those days it would probably have been very profitable to make such a clone. But for some reason nobody did it anyway.

    Today another game company would have only two unattractive choices though:
    1. To make a smaller but similar game. But such a game probably wouldn't sell very well.
    2. To make a similar game and about as big as TS3 or TS4. But to do that today from scratch would probably cost hundreds of millions of dollars. To risk such a game becoming a flop is just not worth it at a time where PC games don't sell very well anymore.

    So the game companies are moving on to other platforms instead. Only a few games are still made for the PC and they are nearly all just new versions of wellknown bestsellers which don't have much risk for flopping. PC gaming is slowly dying.

    If they made it right it would not flop. There are people still buying the sims 3 game that never played before. Why is he sims 3 still selling?

    I will respectfully disagree with you about PC gaming. GTA V was originally made for console. They made it better on PC. Fall Out has a PC version not only console that will be out soon. Start a survey in here and ask how many game hoard on Steam and have several steam games for PC. People who like to mod prefer PC games over console.

    The sims games on PC is always better than console or app versions
    I agree with you that Sims games are better on PC than on consoles. I have never owned a console because I don't like neither the console versions of Sims nor the other types of games which people usually play on consoles.

    The versions of GTA I have tried both on my laptop and on my iPad. But I hate the controls in that game on both platforms. Therefore I don't play the GTA games.

    To ask if people prefer PC games to games on consoles or mobile devices in a forum like this one doesn't give a general truth because this is a forum for a PC game. Therefore this forum is of course mainly visited by people who still prefer to play on a PC. People who prefer gaming on consoles or on mobile devices are probably not here at all.

    I am a teacher who have taught mainly classes with young adults between 20 and 30 years old. Even though they are students many of them have told me that they haven't used their PC at all for more than a month. They use their phones or tablets instead for mails, Facebook, school and also for gaming.
  • GoldenBuffyGoldenBuffy Posts: 4,025 Member
    I know this is just me, but I feel back for those who don't use their pc. I think you get far more superior game play with a pc.
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  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    I know this is just me, but I feel back for those who don't use their pc. I think you get far more superior game play with a pc.
    It depends on your life and on how you play.

    1. If you are never home and usually only play games in a bus or in short breaks at school then a PC isn't very handy. So why bring a PC with you if a phone or tablet is all you need?

    2. If you only play for about 5 minutes every time you play a game then the traditional startup time for a PC is unbearable. A phone or tablet doesn't need any startup time at all.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,115 Member
    edited September 2015
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I've just reread an article that I first read back in April 2015. I've noticed something on the 2nd reread. This is from a well-respected gaming site, at least respected by me.

    From the site:

    "In 2013, Maxis released a reboot of SimCity that was plagued with all sorts of problems, which may have been what led to this final closing. Neither SimCity nor the recent release of The Sims 4 performed very well, according to a person familiar with the goings-on at the studio."

    The emphasis is mine. This is an article discussing EA closing down the Maxis studio, and a source within the studio (I'm assuming) has told the author that The Sims 4 isn't selling well.

    This could also be why we haven't heard anything about the sims 4 sales figures.

    Let me know your opinions about this. Here's the full article.

    http://kotaku.com/ea-shuts-down-simcity-developer-maxis-1689454903

    On a side note, the closing of the Maxis studio could also be why SimCity isn't being updated, and is abandoned. It goes to show that bad decisions can kill a franchise, and it only took one game for SimCity, because fans seem to love SimCity 4 and the iterations before it.

    To keep this thread from being moved out of the Feedback forum, I'll post my feedback to EA, and u do the same.

    EA, Listen to your fans. It's our vision that u should make a reality, not your own. I don't want to be forced to play my sims game a certain way, I want to play it how I want to play it. You all have messed up big time by not listening to us. I don't have to play your game and I don't have to give you my money! Your not entitled to it. And if you don't care, then say bye-bye, because you will have ruined yet another beloved franchise! Dummies!

    Did you ever consider some things are intended to fail so EA can plow their way to mobile gaming? Sim City is now an app and doing very well. Maybe it was the intention of the company to kill off Maxis Sim City so they could have their mobile game and it do better than the PC version since EA wants to go all mobile eventually. Just my two cents.

    I doubt EA intentionally killed the SimCity franchise on PC. The former CEO had a vision, and that vision aligned with the heads at Maxis (Lucy Bradshaw at that time); It wasn't until that vision blew up in their faces that they realized it was not the right direction to go. The former CEO saw that bad choices have consequences, and now he is no longer affiliated with EA. If they wanted to intentionally kill The Sims 4 they wouldn't have made the switch to offline.

    On the topic of mobile gaming, SimCity was not a money maker for EA, and hasn't been for quite some time. I'm not surprised they made a mobile version, it's the new trend. The fact that the mobile game is doing so well probably stems from the fact that it's a very well designed app. You are not locked behind paywalls like on other FTP games. The Sims already has a mobile game, and it's doing quite well with or without The Sims 4. However, a PC title will generate a lot more revenue than a mobile game through DLC sales. The poor sales, and disappointing development on 4 is a direct result of the management calling the shots at Maxis. They no longer have separate branches, Emeryville CA is gone, Rachel Franklin is the studio GM at EA headquarters (the only Maxis studio left). She manages all of the projects in development there, and she is responsible for any and all criticisms surrounding the game. At the end of the day EA can only take so much responsibility for The Sims 4's poor performance, the people who actually manage the title did more harm than the executives who had little to no involvement with the game at all. The only current executive who realistically played a part in the poor decisions made during Sims 4's development was Electronic Arts COO Peter Moore.

    Some of his responsibilities include publishing, sales, and marketing. 3 problem areas for The Sims 4. It was rushed into the market (publishing), it has been heavily discounted, and put on Game Time twice now within a year (sales), and the marketing for the game is nonexistent. Mix that in with Rachel Franklin's inability to express, let alone deliver her "vision", and you have the perfect recipe for a failed product. The Sims 4 was set up for failure from the beginning, but not to pave the way for a mobile app.
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I've just reread an article that I first read back in April 2015. I've noticed something on the 2nd reread. This is from a well-respected gaming site, at least respected by me.

    From the site:

    "In 2013, Maxis released a reboot of SimCity that was plagued with all sorts of problems, which may have been what led to this final closing. Neither SimCity nor the recent release of The Sims 4 performed very well, according to a person familiar with the goings-on at the studio."

    The emphasis is mine. This is an article discussing EA closing down the Maxis studio, and a source within the studio (I'm assuming) has told the author that The Sims 4 isn't selling well.

    This could also be why we haven't heard anything about the sims 4 sales figures.

    Let me know your opinions about this. Here's the full article.

    http://kotaku.com/ea-shuts-down-simcity-developer-maxis-1689454903

    On a side note, the closing of the Maxis studio could also be why SimCity isn't being updated, and is abandoned. It goes to show that bad decisions can kill a franchise, and it only took one game for SimCity, because fans seem to love SimCity 4 and the iterations before it.

    To keep this thread from being moved out of the Feedback forum, I'll post my feedback to EA, and u do the same.

    EA, Listen to your fans. It's our vision that u should make a reality, not your own. I don't want to be forced to play my sims game a certain way, I want to play it how I want to play it. You all have messed up big time by not listening to us. I don't have to play your game and I don't have to give you my money! Your not entitled to it. And if you don't care, then say bye-bye, because you will have ruined yet another beloved franchise! Dummies!

    Did you ever consider some things are intended to fail so EA can plow their way to mobile gaming? Sim City is now an app and doing very well. Maybe it was the intention of the company to kill off Maxis Sim City so they could have their mobile game and it do better than the PC version since EA wants to go all mobile eventually. Just my two cents.

    I doubt EA intentionally killed the SimCity franchise on PC. The former CEO had a vision, and that vision aligned with the heads at Maxis (Lucy Bradshaw at that time); It wasn't until that vision blew up in their faces that they realized it was not the right direction to go. The former CEO saw that bad choices have consequences, and now he is no longer affiliated with EA. If they wanted to intentionally kill The Sims 4 they wouldn't have made the switch to offline.

    On the topic of mobile gaming, SimCity was not a money maker for EA, and hasn't been for quite some time. I'm not surprised they made a mobile version, it's the new trend. The fact that the mobile game is doing so well probably stems from the fact that it's a very well designed app. You are not locked behind paywalls like on other FTP games. The Sims already has a mobile game, and it's doing quite well with or without The Sims 4. However, a PC title will generate a lot more revenue than a mobile game through DLC sales. The poor sales, and disappointing development on 4 is a direct result of the management calling the shots at Maxis. They no longer have separate branches, Emeryville CA is gone, Rachel Franklin is the studio GM at EA headquarters (the only Maxis studio left). She manages all of the projects in development there, and she is responsible for any and all criticisms surrounding the game. At the end of the day EA can only take so much responsibility for The Sims 4's poor performance, the people who actually manage the title did more harm than the executives who had little to no involvement with the game at all. The only current executive who realistically played a part in the poor decisions made during Sims 4's development was Electronic Arts COO Peter Moore.

    Some of his responsibilities include publishing, sales, and marketing. 3 problem areas for The Sims 4. It was rushed into the market (publishing), it has been heavily discounted, and put on Game Time twice now within a year (sales), and the marketing for the game is nonexistent. Mix that in with Rachel Franklin's inability to express, let alone deliver her "vision", and you have the perfect recipe for a failed product. The Sims 4 was set up for failure from the beginning, but not to pave the way for a mobile app.
    According to https://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/ the iPhone versions of Sims Freeplay and SimCity BuildIt are not doing that well. They are only number 35 and 44 on the list.

    And no - EA obviously has no plans about making any game fail just to have an excuse for moving it to another platform because EA doesn't need an excuse - and EA will keep any game on all platforms as long as this is profitable. Making profitable games is of course the only thing which matters for EA and EA doesn't see the versions for different platforms as competing. The only thing which EA seems to avoid is having too similar versions of a game on the same platform - obviously because many customers would then choose between the games instead of buying them all. But EA seems to want to offer as many of its games as possible to any people's preferred gaming platform.

    I don't really think that TS4 was poorly marketed. The problem was that the new emotions and the new multitasking were the "big" things which EA had planned to make people just love the game. This also made most people buy the TS4 basegame. But already before the release of TS4 the information that TS4 didn't have neither toddlers nor an open world just stole people's attention. This wasn't at all what the marketing people in EA had planned. But it was too late for EA to do anything about it.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited September 2015
    jonilla1 wrote: »
    Why everyone has to come here to bash the game?
    These posts are just big jokes that need to stop. If you don't like the game go somewhere else.

    Yes, everyone has their own opinions but sometimes you should not say them out loud.

    The Sims Forums are getting really annoying to come back to because of all this.

    [rage]YEAH, YOU TELL 'EM. NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR THESE JOKERS' BASHING THE GAME. RRRRRAWR.[/rage]
    SimGuruBChick: If someone says they love The Sims 4, then please acknowledge that they have a right to feel that way. Just because you don’t agree, that doesn’t give you the right to mock or laugh at them.
    In the same vein, if someone says they hate The Sims 4, then they have the same right to feel that way and to express that opinion without being afraid that they will be mocked or laughed at.
    SimGuruGraham: The best advice I can give is to continue to make your voices heard. Give your honest and constructive feedback about what you’d like to see from the franchise and what features are important to you. I’d suggest the most visible place you can do that is on our official Sims forums. You can have an impact on what we do.

    Oh... gee golly... I never considered this. Thank you, SimGurus :relaxed:
    Plus this was said recently.
    Sadly not everything can be sunshine and rainbows and sometimes the "negative" feedback / chatter can be informative if it is done in a constructive way to allow for discussion. We are working on ways for the SimGurus to be more active within the forums, it is a big place and they don't always get long periods of time to chat.
    Feedback about the game is fine, but personal attacks towards any Simmer or EA staff member are not. Most seem to not get this concept or pay attention to forum rules. I do not think the game flopped or should be scrapped. Should it be revamped? Yes I think that would help. Will it be done? Probably not. I do wish the Sims 4 isn't left with bugs like what Maxis did to the Sims 3. That was embarrassing and set a negative expectation for the Sims 4 I think.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    DecafHigh wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    I don't really think that TS4 was poorly marketed. The problem was that the new emotions and the new multitasking were the "big" things which EA had planned to make people just love the game. This also made most people buy the TS4 basegame. But already before the release of TS4 the information that TS4 didn't have neither toddlers nor an open world just stole people's attention. This wasn't at all what the marketing people in EA had planned. But it was too late for EA to do anything about it.

    Its not even just all the missing aspects. Even the big marketing items like emotions, multi-tasking, and "smarter sims" are only half-baked at best. Like having no emotion to a spouse cheating right in front of you, how "smarter" sims will walk upstairs and across the house to wash their dishes in a bathroom sink instead of the kitchen one a few feet away, and I'm pretty sure multi-tasking and group convo's is why sims play musical chairs while eating dinner. So even the features they marketed hard pre-release ended up being a letdown, great ideas but poor execution. They removed a lot of the game to supposedly make these things work, they really needed to deliver and they didn't.

    More parties and dancing isn't going to fix any of that, if it is even fixable at this point.
    I think that they completely overestimated especially the value of the new multitasking. I believe the SimGuru who told us that this especially as very hard and tricky to make. But it didn't swipe our feet away in admiration because it actually didn't affect our gameplay that much.

    So they used much too much time to make the multitasking and the new emotions in action (and also on the new build mode) and therefore had too little time to make everything else work. Therefore they removed toddlers and made teens the same height as adult to be able to use the same clothes and mostly the same interactions for teens and adults. They also simplified the old social reactions (as you mention) because they were asked by EA to focus on making TS4 into a new game without too much repetition from the earlier games. But this way of thinking simplified the game too much and the new things became not enough impressive. This is their problem now. The upcoming expansions will be made in a way which repairs this a little. But I don't think that they will manage to satisfy their old customers anyway because a lot of things can't be fixed now. We can only hope that they will make TS5 and that they have learned a lesson so TS5 will become a much better game.
  • phoebebebe13phoebebebe13 Posts: 19,400 Member
    Erpe wrote: »
    LaAbby wrote: »
    Shadoza2 wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
    Yes everybody have the right to say whatever they want. But this isn't the issue here ;)

    My problem with the discussion in this forum is that people apparently think that they can threaten EA by saying "If I don't get toddlers now then I won't pay you about $30 for the next EP/GP and I know that a few others won't buy it either! And then you will go bankruptcy because you won't be able to pay the wages for your 8400 employees!" But you don't even buy enough games to pay even the wages for a single one of those 8400 employees. To think that you are able to threaten EA by having a few hundred simmers to not pay EA $30 each is just poor math because EA's income is about $4,000,000,000 each year. You just overestimate your power so hugely that it is nothing but laughable ;)

    For clarity, the 4 billion is not income, it is revenue.

    The Sims franchise is developed by Maxis which is privately held--meaning financial reports are not available to the public. Maxis revenue is likely no where near the billion mark and they do not have that many employees.

    Since The Sims franchise is not a cash cow to EA, it is possible that EA will sell the franchise if it proves unprofitable or draws too much negativity from the target consumers.

    One drop of water does not make an ocean; however, many drops coming together does.

    I bet if EA sold maxis and the sims there would be a few developers wanting to buy the sims franchise since there is no game like it. For one Bethesda likes the sims and used sims like features in Fall Out Shelter.

    I would sincerely love it if a good company bought the sims <3 or at least a company that wants to do something good with it. Clearly the sims has been lost, and this new idea of theirs is such a mess. At this point, I just want something fun and different than S4. A combo of 2 & 3 would have been really nice.

    Me too and the best of 2 and 3 features with add and change some game play so we would not have the exact game play from 2 and 3 would have been great. Im not looking to have the same exact games as previous but I definitely don't want the game we have now. :p
    We can wonder why nobody made a clone of TS1 even though that game sold extremely well and didn't need very much technology to clone 12 to 14 years ago. In those days it would probably have been very profitable to make such a clone. But for some reason nobody did it anyway.

    Today another game company would have only two unattractive choices though:
    1. To make a smaller but similar game. But such a game probably wouldn't sell very well.
    2. To make a similar game and about as big as TS3 or TS4. But to do that today from scratch would probably cost hundreds of millions of dollars. To risk such a game becoming a flop is just not worth it at a time where PC games don't sell very well anymore.

    So the game companies are moving on to other platforms instead. Only a few games are still made for the PC and they are nearly all just new versions of wellknown bestsellers which don't have much risk for flopping. PC gaming is slowly dying.

    If they made it right it would not flop. There are people still buying the sims 3 game that never played before. Why is he sims 3 still selling?

    I will respectfully disagree with you about PC gaming. GTA V was originally made for console. They made it better on PC. Fall Out has a PC version not only console that will be out soon. Start a survey in here and ask how many game hoard on Steam and have several steam games for PC. People who like to mod prefer PC games over console.

    The sims games on PC is always better than console or app versions
    Absolutely true. And if your read the Steam and Nexus forums a lot of folks are moving from consoles to pc's because of the incredible modding that is available now. It keeps the games new and re-playable and allows you to enter a whole new level of gaming. AJ Velicky was 19 when he created the Falskaar mod for Skyrim, and it landed him a job at Bungie doing story, level and gameplay design. Modding rocks!

    I agree and decent gaming computers are much more affordable now than they were 5 years ago. More people can now afford gaming computers. This fact along with people who love to mod, I see PC gaming getting better not declining.
  • phoebebebe13phoebebebe13 Posts: 19,400 Member
    edited September 2015
    jonilla1 wrote: »
    Why everyone has to come here to bash the game?
    These posts are just big jokes that need to stop. If you don't like the game go somewhere else.

    Yes, everyone has their own opinions but sometimes you should not say them out loud.

    The Sims Forums are getting really annoying to come back to because of all this.

    First off this thread was in feedback section and someone moved it to Gen Discussion. I have no idea why it was moved however As paying customers we have a right to leave feedback for EA if we are dissatisfied with a game we paid for. If you dont agree with our feedback than just dont post and move on!!!!! You go somewhere else. Find a thread you agree with

    Dont say our opinions out loud? So only your opinion matters?

    You know whats really annoying about this forum, posts like yours from people who to try to stifle others feedback and posts you don't agree with.
    Post edited by phoebebebe13 on
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    edited September 2015
    Nevermind.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • phoebebebe13phoebebebe13 Posts: 19,400 Member
    edited September 2015
    Erpe wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    LaAbby wrote: »
    Shadoza2 wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
    Yes everybody have the right to say whatever they want. But this isn't the issue here ;)

    My problem with the discussion in this forum is that people apparently think that they can threaten EA by saying "If I don't get toddlers now then I won't pay you about $30 for the next EP/GP and I know that a few others won't buy it either! And then you will go bankruptcy because you won't be able to pay the wages for your 8400 employees!" But you don't even buy enough games to pay even the wages for a single one of those 8400 employees. To think that you are able to threaten EA by having a few hundred simmers to not pay EA $30 each is just poor math because EA's income is about $4,000,000,000 each year. You just overestimate your power so hugely that it is nothing but laughable ;)

    For clarity, the 4 billion is not income, it is revenue.

    The Sims franchise is developed by Maxis which is privately held--meaning financial reports are not available to the public. Maxis revenue is likely no where near the billion mark and they do not have that many employees.

    Since The Sims franchise is not a cash cow to EA, it is possible that EA will sell the franchise if it proves unprofitable or draws too much negativity from the target consumers.

    One drop of water does not make an ocean; however, many drops coming together does.

    I bet if EA sold maxis and the sims there would be a few developers wanting to buy the sims franchise since there is no game like it. For one Bethesda likes the sims and used sims like features in Fall Out Shelter.

    I would sincerely love it if a good company bought the sims <3 or at least a company that wants to do something good with it. Clearly the sims has been lost, and this new idea of theirs is such a mess. At this point, I just want something fun and different than S4. A combo of 2 & 3 would have been really nice.

    Me too and the best of 2 and 3 features with add and change some game play so we would not have the exact game play from 2 and 3 would have been great. Im not looking to have the same exact games as previous but I definitely don't want the game we have now. :p
    We can wonder why nobody made a clone of TS1 even though that game sold extremely well and didn't need very much technology to clone 12 to 14 years ago. In those days it would probably have been very profitable to make such a clone. But for some reason nobody did it anyway.

    Today another game company would have only two unattractive choices though:
    1. To make a smaller but similar game. But such a game probably wouldn't sell very well.
    2. To make a similar game and about as big as TS3 or TS4. But to do that today from scratch would probably cost hundreds of millions of dollars. To risk such a game becoming a flop is just not worth it at a time where PC games don't sell very well anymore.

    So the game companies are moving on to other platforms instead. Only a few games are still made for the PC and they are nearly all just new versions of wellknown bestsellers which don't have much risk for flopping. PC gaming is slowly dying.

    If they made it right it would not flop. There are people still buying the sims 3 game that never played before. Why is he sims 3 still selling?

    I will respectfully disagree with you about PC gaming. GTA V was originally made for console. They made it better on PC. Fall Out has a PC version not only console that will be out soon. Start a survey in here and ask how many game hoard on Steam and have several steam games for PC. People who like to mod prefer PC games over console.

    The sims games on PC is always better than console or app versions
    I agree with you that Sims games are better on PC than on consoles. I have never owned a console because I don't like neither the console versions of Sims nor the other types of games which people usually play on consoles.

    The versions of GTA I have tried both on my laptop and on my iPad. But I hate the controls in that game on both platforms. Therefore I don't play the GTA games.

    To ask if people prefer PC games to games on consoles or mobile devices in a forum like this one doesn't give a general truth because this is a forum for a PC game. Therefore this forum is of course mainly visited by people who still prefer to play on a PC. People who prefer gaming on consoles or on mobile devices are probably not here at all.

    I am a teacher who have taught mainly classes with young adults between 20 and 30 years old. Even though they are students many of them have told me that they haven't used their PC at all for more than a month. They use their phones or tablets instead for mails, Facebook, school and also for gaming.

    Im actually a console player more so than PC. Sims is the only game I play on PC. My son just got into more PC gaming. He loves GTA V and that is one of the most powerful games out there and you need a good gaming computer to play it.

    You would be surprised there are a lot of console gamer in here as well as PC. Some do both like my house.

    PC gaming 5 years ago was not affordable to many. That was part of the problem with the sims 3. Many did not have computers that could play the game the more that got added. I did not play the sims 3 for years because I did not have a computer that could play it. I do now because gaming computers are much more affordable. The sims 2 and 1 did not need as powerful a computer as the sims 3 does and 4 as more gets added to 4. The sims 4 requirements (when the game is complete) for PC are the same as the sims 3 only the games are programmed differently. We have several people in the tech thread who cant play or are having trouble playing as more got added because they don't own a gaming pc or gaming laptop

    PC games that give and require computer specs to play are not meant for tablet and basic laptops. I know some people like to only game mobile but EA has made sims games in the past for those types of gamer. The PC version of the game does require a mid range gaming desktop or higher end gaming laptop to play

  • BeardedgeekBeardedgeek Posts: 5,520 Member
    Shadoza2 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    So, Sims 4 was the top selling PC game 2014.
    tumblr_np5y768E8M1sh6xelo1_1280.jpg

    But of course it is a flop, because reasons.
    Funny this site uses the same NPD software too with actual numbers. http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=sims

    So Sims 4 is a flop, because it ONLY was the best selling computer game in 2014, and not the best selling Sims game ever?
    That's an... interesting... perspective.

    That chart keeps showing up here. NPD is a PoS research group that is a paid service for businesses. That chart means absolutely nothing on it's own.

    Then show some other data.
    Origin ID: A_Bearded_Geek
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