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Is this enough proof that The Sims 4 is a flop?

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  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    yunagarnet wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    2. The SimGurus have left the forum because they became tired of answering questions about toddlers and similar things with "We can't talk about future stuff. We read and consider everything you write though." People just continued with that sort of questions anyway and the SimGurus moved their social activities to Twitter instead.
    Sad when Twitter has vandalism threats going on now. Facebook is becoming pretty intense too. Only "safe" place there seems to be now is Reddit and some of the fan sites that ban everyone that disagrees with them it seems. I wouldn't touch Twitter with a ten foot pole. Scary environment.

    But please look into this if possible @SimGuruDrake. It scares me.
    Yes I haven't visited Twitter recently. But the SimGurus were very active there at the time when they left this forum. My impressions from the notifications which I receive from Twitter seem to confirm that the SimGurus have move away from Twitter too now.

    The attacks on EA and the SimGurus only have the effect that the SimGurus will move on to another place where they can share jokes and fun without being attacked. Again the toddler fanatics don't at all get what they want by forcing the SimGurus to leave a social media.

    You do realize that there are people who dislike this game and the reasons have nothing to do with toddlers right? Plus how are you going to talk about not attacking the Gurus yet your posts have been filled with comments attacking other fans like calling them 'fanatics'. Maybe you should try following your own advice before telling others what to do. People shouldn't attack the guru's but if you knew as much you think you knew, you would know there were a lot of people who defended the Gurus for months - @sparkfairy1 included - and the state of the forums is a direct result of the anger and hurt people feel over months and months of silence from the Gurus even after they claimed they were 'listening'. So no one is to blame for the state of the forums right now except the gurus and EA. If the Gurus had actually talked to us and did damage control a lot of people wouldn't feel like they needed to boycott the game.

    Besides the gurus are not the first set of developers who have put out a product that got backlash and they certainty won't be the last. It happened with FFXIV, Dragon Age, Mass Effect 3, etc. You know what happened with those games? The developers went back to see what the problem was and fixed it. FFXIV is currently one of the biggest MMOs right now. Dragon Age: Inquisition was Game of the Year. Mass Effect is getting another sequel even though it was originally only intended to be a trilogy. The Gurus aren't children and I don't understand why people act like we should treat them as such. Other developers (some even under EA as well.) have dealt with the same amount of backlash and they didn't blatantly ignore the fans - they listened to them instead and received great payoff for doing so.
    I am not an expert in the games which you mention here. But I nevertheless know that your evaluation is complete opposite compared to how other people usually see EA because EA is usually regarded as a company who disregard its customers and people are usually not happy when the game company which made their favorite game was bought by EA.

    I accept though that a game which had technical issues will usually be repaired by EA if that was the reason why people were unhappy. But if people are just unhappy because EA changed a game then I have never seen EA obey and "repair" the game. If such a game didn't sell well then EA usually just stopped the series and thereby ignored the fans of the game.

    I am not critizing sparkfairy1 who I don't see as a fanatic. But a lot of other simmers are. Just read the twitter message which attacked SimGuruRachel and TheSims above. You can unfortunately find a lot of similar attacks many places in this forum.

    You don't seem to give me and others the right to defend the Sims series. So be careful not to regret this if EA actually should decide to move half of the employees in Maxis to other EA departments and stop releasing so much new content for the PC versions of Sims games.
  • ArlettaArletta Posts: 8,444 Member
    edited September 2015
    I don't care what anybody does with their money. It's their money to spend on what they will. I'm not saying you guys should buy it if you don't want to. Neither was I saying "Shut up and go away". It's not up to me who posts or what they post. If it was objectionable enough, I'd flag it.

    The seemingly blind belief that after a year and so many boycotts, protests and interviews that 'If we keep trying, we'll get through to EA, because now RF has annoyed more of the players' does bother me. It makes me want to shake the person doing it and answer 'No, you won't. They're not going to come out here and apologise and start implementing your feedback, just because it was stated that toddlers and family play don't matter. Less so, if it was said intentionally'. You can be an optimist all you want, but I will occasionally rear up and tell you that your optimism is misguiding you. It doesn't mean anything beyond that.
  • yunagarnetyunagarnet Posts: 417 Member
    Arletta wrote: »
    I don't care what anybody does with their money. It's their money to spend on what they will. I'm not saying you guys should buy it if you don't want to. Neither was I saying "Shut up and go away". It's not up to me who posts or what they post. If it was objectionable enough, I'd flag it.

    The seemingly blind belief that after a year and so many boycotts, protests and interviews that 'If we keep trying, we'll get through to EA, because now RF has annoyed more of the players' does bother me. It makes me want to shake the person doing it and answer 'No, you won't. They're not going to come out here and apologise and start implementing your feedback, just because it was stated that toddlers and family play don't matter. Less so, if it was said intentionally'. You can be an optimist all you want, but I will occasionally rear up and tell you that your optimism is misguiding you. It doesn't mean anything beyond that.

    Okay I lied I'm not out...yet.

    Again why is it any of your business and why do you care? I could easily say to someone that likes TS4, who thinks it has 'potential' and that it will be 'great someday', that their optimism is misguided and that TS4 is a bad game that will never improve but I don't...because it's not my place or my business to. If they like the game and want to continue to talk about awesome it will be 'one day' it's their prerogative even if I don't agree with it. If @sparkfairy1 or anyone else here wants to boycott and give feedback here until their face is blue - even if they never get heard - why does it even bother you?
    “Honestly, we didn’t meet player expectations at launch, and that was a difficult pill to swallow,” - The Sims 4 executive producer, Rachel Franklin.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    I just know that if there were more Simmers like rosemow and stilljustme and luthenrising who could express their love without attacking others, the Sims 4 would be a much more pleasant game to talk about and I'd probably still be playing it. But it isn't. It has become a game full of hate towards other Simmers. I don't like that and I will not support a game that encourages that. Enjoy the game as much as you want, but for pete sakes, stop putting other Simmers down. It's becoming a big fat joke how miserable Sims 4 is making people volatile towards one another. I thought only MMOs made people aggressive, but I guess I was wrong.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    @yunagarnet You didn't read what I wrote. I have nowhere written that sparkfairy1 was a fanatic! Now you even claim that I am a fanatic myself just because I don't agree with fanatics myself. Do you agree with fanatics in everything yourself? ;)

    I knew that the games which you mentioned was made by EA. But because I haven't played them I can't evaluate if EA has reacted by obeying wishes from the game's fans. On the other hand I do know older games which were made by companies which EA later bought and where EA stopped the game series because fans didn't like some new changes. You should be able to find such examples yourself just by searching.

    You don't care much about Sims games because you play the other EA games you mentioned instead. That is completely okay with me. But this isn't the case for me - and it isn't the case for the fanatics who attack EA and the SimGurus for not giving them toddlers either. Most people here do actually care about the future for Sims games.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    I am loving this OP. She is so sweet and welcoming to all Simmers. When discussing the Sims 4, this is the type of thread I like to talk about it with. http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/854730/i-guess-i-am-just-a-happy-simmer/ If there were more cheerful Simmers like this, I'd probably be able to enjoy the game again.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • yunagarnetyunagarnet Posts: 417 Member
    Erpe wrote: »
    @yunagarnet You didn't read what I wrote. I have nowhere written that sparkfairy1 was a fanatic! Now you even claim that I am a fanatic myself just because I don't agree with fanatics myself. Do you agree with fanatics in everything yourself? ;)

    I knew that the games which you mentioned was made by EA. But because I haven't played them I can't evaluate if EA has reacted by obeying wishes from the game's fans. On the other hand I do know older games which were made by companies which EA later bought and where EA stopped the game series because fans didn't like some new changes. You should be able to find such examples yourself just by searching.

    You don't care much about Sims games because you play the other EA games you mentioned instead. That is completely okay with me. But this isn't the case for me - and it isn't the case for the fanatics who attack EA and the SimGurus for not giving them toddlers either. Most people here do actually care about the future for Sims games.
    *sighs*

    H876sNK.gif
    You didn't read what I wrote. I have nowhere written that sparkfairy1 was a fanatic! Now you even claim that I am a fanatic myself just because I don't agree with fanatics myself. Do you agree with fanatics in everything yourself? ;)
    I never said you called her a fanatic? Point out where I said point black that you called her a fanatic. You won't find it because I didn't say it. What I said was: The issue here was that you weren't defending the game, you were just trying to put sparkfairy1 down and told her boycotting the game - which as a customer she has the right to do whether you like or not - was laughable which was condescending and insulting. You made it personal.

    I said that I thought your comments to her were rude.
    Now you even claim that I am a fanatic myself just because I don't agree with fanatics myself. Do you agree with fanatics in everything yourself? ;)
    I was trying to make an example which you missed and if we continue on this specific point we are just going to further misunderstand each other so I suggest we just move on to avoid going in circles. I don't legitimately think of you fanatic (I've seen a lot worst) and I apologize if it came of that way.
    I knew that the games which you mentioned was made by EA. But because I haven't played them I can't evaluate if EA has reacted by obeying wishes from the game's fans. On the other hand I do know older games which were made by companies which EA later bought and where EA stopped the game series because fans didn't like some new changes. You should be able to find such examples yourself just by searching.
    Again I agree with you here. I just stated that there were cases that EA did listen to fans.
    You don't care much about Sims games because you play the other EA games you mentioned instead. That is completely okay with me. But this isn't the case for me - and it isn't the case for the fanatics who attack EA and the SimGurus for not giving them toddlers either. Most people here do actually care about the future for Sims games.
    No, you're just assuming things about me you don't know (which is like the second or third time you've done this). I've been playing since TS1 - long before any of those other EA titles were even thought about being made. If I didn't care about The Sims or its future I wouldn't even be here talking to you right now. If the series ends will I be hurt? Yes. However, I'm not going to cry over spoiled milk either. If EA canceled the series no of us would be able to do anything about that.
    “Honestly, we didn’t meet player expectations at launch, and that was a difficult pill to swallow,” - The Sims 4 executive producer, Rachel Franklin.
  • ArlettaArletta Posts: 8,444 Member
    edited September 2015
    yunagarnet wrote: »
    Arletta wrote: »
    I don't care what anybody does with their money. It's their money to spend on what they will. I'm not saying you guys should buy it if you don't want to. Neither was I saying "Shut up and go away". It's not up to me who posts or what they post. If it was objectionable enough, I'd flag it.

    The seemingly blind belief that after a year and so many boycotts, protests and interviews that 'If we keep trying, we'll get through to EA, because now RF has annoyed more of the players' does bother me. It makes me want to shake the person doing it and answer 'No, you won't. They're not going to come out here and apologise and start implementing your feedback, just because it was stated that toddlers and family play don't matter. Less so, if it was said intentionally'. You can be an optimist all you want, but I will occasionally rear up and tell you that your optimism is misguiding you. It doesn't mean anything beyond that.

    Okay I lied I'm not out...yet.

    Again why is it any of your business and why do you care? I could easily say to someone that likes TS4, who thinks it has 'potential' and that it will be 'great someday', that their optimism is misguided and that TS4 is a bad game that will never improve but I don't...because it's not my place or my business to. If they like the game and want to continue to talk about awesome it will be 'one day' it's their prerogative even if I don't agree with it. If @sparkfairy1 or anyone else here wants to boycott and give feedback here until their face is blue - even if they never get heard - why does it even bother you?

    Oh, I'm sorry. I was under the illusion that it was a public forum, a shared space. That I was as entitled to my opinion as much as anybody, and free to state that opinion. If I want to sit and tell somebody that they're wrong for believing that EA will listen, I'm allowed to do so. People are free to ignore me.

    Was it that it was Sparkfairy? I'm not stopping her, you or anybody boycotting and giving feedback. She's also capable of standing up for herself, if I was attacking her, which I wasn't. Saying "EA don't care. EA won't fix it. You're not getting through to them." I didn't think was a bad thing, only a truth.

    Good grief.
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    @yunagarnet You are contradicting yourself too much for me to answer that. If you are just trying to "win" the discussion by defending opposite viewpoints at the same time then I have no interest at all in such a competion. Now you write that you care for the Sims future while earlier you wrote that you didn't. You attacked me assuming that I had written things about sparkfairy1 which I didn't. Now you claim that you didn't. I accept that one of my earlier messages actually was an answer to sparkfairy1. But it was sparkfairy1 who incorrectly thought that all my answers to others was about her. It wasn't.
  • sparkfairy1sparkfairy1 Posts: 11,453 Member
    @Arletta I don't even know @yunagarnet personally so I don't think it was because it was me. I think maybe the way you wrote it struck a chord with her and she said something. Something which I've seen you do elsewhere too.

    What I'm sure of is that there's no hard feelings. You know I'm not like that, we just agree to disagree!
  • yunagarnetyunagarnet Posts: 417 Member
    edited September 2015
    Erpe wrote: »
    @yunagarnet You are contradicting yourself too much for me to answer that. If you are just trying to "win" the discussion by defending opposite viewpoints at the same time then I have no interest at all in such a competion. Now you write that you care for the Sims future while earlier you wrote that you didn't. You attacked me assuming that I had written things about sparkfairy1 which I didn't. Now you claim that you didn't. I accept that one of my earlier messages actually was an answer to sparkfairy1. But it was sparkfairy1 who incorrectly thought that all my answers to others was about her. It wasn't.

    What's there to win? Do the mods had out trophies at the end of these debates?

    How does saying my life doesn't resolve around The Sims=I don't care whatsoever? My life doesn't resolve around The Sims but doesn't mean I don't care. If it ends - whether it's because of TS4 or some other sequel - I'll be hurt in move on because that's life. There's literally nothing contradictory there. I did say you wrote things about sparkyfairy...because you did but out of the things you said, a fanatic wasn't one of them. Honestly dude, it seems like you are only reading one half of what I'm saying while constantly making assumptions about me even though I've tried to be respectful to you so I'm done talking to you.
    @Arletta I don't even know @yunagarnet personally so I don't think it was because it was me. I think maybe the way you wrote it struck a chord with her and she said something. Something which I've seen you do elsewhere too.

    You're exactly correct.
    “Honestly, we didn’t meet player expectations at launch, and that was a difficult pill to swallow,” - The Sims 4 executive producer, Rachel Franklin.
  • yunagarnetyunagarnet Posts: 417 Member
    edited September 2015
    Deleted since apparently my sense of humor isn't funny.
    Post edited by yunagarnet on
    “Honestly, we didn’t meet player expectations at launch, and that was a difficult pill to swallow,” - The Sims 4 executive producer, Rachel Franklin.
  • KillerSynthKillerSynth Posts: 419 Member
    What exactly is winning? You're fighting on a forum, that is not okay.
  • yunagarnetyunagarnet Posts: 417 Member
    edited September 2015
    What exactly is winning? You're fighting on a forum, that is not okay.
    It was a joke and no one is fighting. I doubt Erpe is upset and neither am I. We're both adults who are simply debating on a forum.
    “Honestly, we didn’t meet player expectations at launch, and that was a difficult pill to swallow,” - The Sims 4 executive producer, Rachel Franklin.
  • KillerSynthKillerSynth Posts: 419 Member
    yunagarnet wrote: »
    What exactly is winning? You're fighting on a forum, that is not okay.
    It was a joke and no one is fighting. I doubt Erpe is upset and neither am I. We're both adults who are simply debating on a forum.

    No need to be so rude. Debating is a funny word. It felt more like fighting, but whatever. I just wish everyone could get along with each other.
  • KillerSynthKillerSynth Posts: 419 Member
    yunagarnet wrote: »
    Deleted since apparently my sense of humor isn't funny.

    You didn't have to delete it, I might not get it but that doesn't mean someone else might not get a laugh. It's a forum you have the right to post whatever you want even if I or anyone else disagree's or agree's with it.
  • yunagarnetyunagarnet Posts: 417 Member
    yunagarnet wrote: »
    Deleted since apparently my sense of humor isn't funny.

    You didn't have to delete it, I might not get it but that doesn't mean someone else might not get a laugh. It's a forum you have the right to post whatever you want even if I or anyone else disagree's or agree's with it.

    It's fine. :) I thought over it and I honestly shouldn't have posted it in the first place.
    “Honestly, we didn’t meet player expectations at launch, and that was a difficult pill to swallow,” - The Sims 4 executive producer, Rachel Franklin.
  • ArlettaArletta Posts: 8,444 Member
    edited September 2015
    I'm going to give a proper answer, because it's playing on my mind and I'm unable to concentrate on anything else properly, then I'm going to take a full forum break for a little while.

    How is it any of my business whether people boycott or leave feedback? Why am I bothered?

    Other than my being here, passing, seeing and my manners taking a small break, it's heartbreaking, for want of a better word, to sit here, knowing that all the boycotts and feedback is going to make very little difference, knowing that people still believe/hope that Maxis is going to pull their heads out of wherever they happen to have it and add in whatever feedback they're leaving, despite being told differently.

    Anybody (myself included) who has been a long term member of the forums, along with a long term player of the game, has been there. You've left your feedback (not including the store), asked them to change or add something, defended EA/Maxis, brought that pack in the hopes that the game will become whatever you want it to be (for me, that was store content) and finally realised that they don't really care so long as they're getting money from you. You've wasted that time, that money, rather futilely (Yes, it's people's time or money to waste). It doesn't make it any the less heartbreaking. It doesn't stop you from wanting to make somebody realise that they really don't care, that if they start losing money on The Sims they'll scrap it, not take it away and improve it.

    At the same time, this isn't me saying "Stop. Go away". I know people will do what they do, no matter what.

    The End.
  • phoebebebe13phoebebebe13 Posts: 19,400 Member
    Erpe wrote: »
    yunagarnet wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
    Yes everybody have the right to say whatever they want. But this isn't the issue here ;)

    My problem with the discussion in this forum is that people apparently think that they can threaten EA by saying "If I don't get toddlers now then I won't pay you about $30 for the next EP/GP and I know that a few others won't buy it either! And then you will go bankruptcy because you won't be able to pay the wages for your 8400 employees!" But you don't even buy enough games to pay even the wages for a single one of those 8400 employees. To think that you are able to threaten EA by having a few hundred simmers to not pay EA $30 each is just poor math because EA's income is about $4,000,000,000 each year. You just overestimate your power so hugely that it is nothing but laughable ;)

    Okay but why do you or @Arletta even care what people choose to do with their free time or money? Like if @sparkfairy1 or any one else wants to sit here on these forums and boycott TS4 until the end of it's run why do you care? You don't get any of that money. You don't work for EA. So again why do you care? And even if the 'haters' annoy you can easily put someone on ignore. Why make passive aggressive and even borderline insulting comments to people who are just trying to let their voice be heard to save a series they have loved for the past 15 years? Why go out of your way to basically to tell someone to 'shut up and go away'. Why? Because I truly don't understand. Like even if liked this game I would never put someone down by saying their comments didn't matter - even if it's true - because it's not my place. Like it honestly just sounds like you all are trying to kick someone while they're already hurt about something they truly care about.
    I wouldn't care if those people didn't dominate the forums and actually work for the opposite result of what they think that they are working for. But even though they are actually not nearly as many as they think that they are - I see three results of their continued attack on EA and TS4 month after month:

    1. The sales numbers for TS4 may have gone slightly down. I don't think that this is enough to make EA do very much about it. But nevertheless it could motivate EA to actually lower the budget slightly for upcoming expansions.

    2. The SimGurus have left the forum because they became tired of answering questions about toddlers and similar things with "We can't talk about future stuff. We read and consider everything you write though." People just continued with that sort of questions anyway and the SimGurus moved their social activities to Twitter instead.

    3. The feeling in this forum is angry and negative and people who like the game have left the forum or use the forum much less than they would usually do.

    1. I for one stopped buying anything for this game a long time ago. There are several more like me. There are even people who refuse to buy this game. These are people that have bought everything for previous sims games 1 through 3. Previous games catered to all kinds of players and the sims 4 does not cater to all types of game play. As someone else stated to you simcity was shut down and the sims (maxis) could easily shut down do to lower sales than previous games. Any company that wants to stay a float should cater to their fans and give their fans what they want especially if they want to boost sales. Its not just the Toddler issue. There are many things this game is lacking for me and others

    2. The Gurus have been very secretive from the start of this game. All they gave us was CAS and no sample of game play. Im sure they knew a lot of people would not buy the sims 4 if people knew what they were getting in the base game. This base game had very little compared to previous sims games yet they charged actually a higher price than most AAA games. From the beginning they did not give their customers their money's worth. Now your saying they have to post somewhere else to get away from their dissatisfied customers who want answers? Answers EA has refused to give their customers from the beginning.

    3. Your right that this forum is negative. Why because some people feel the need to attack others for being dissatisfied with this game that want answers from EA. These are people that have given EA a lot of money. They want a game they can be satisfied with and got their moneys worth. There are also those few who attack people for liking the game. I ignore those posts for people liking the game because I have nothing to say to agree with them. People who don't agree with those of us who are dissatisfied should ignore our posts and post elsewhere. The forum might turn out more civil this way :)
  • yunagarnetyunagarnet Posts: 417 Member
    Arletta wrote: »
    I'm going to give a proper answer, because it's playing on my mind and I'm unable to concentrate on anything else properly, then I'm going to take a full forum break for a little while.

    How is it any of my business whether people boycott or leave feedback? Why am I bothered?

    Other than my being here, passing, seeing and my manners taking a small break, it's heartbreaking, for want of a better word, to sit here, knowing that all the boycotts and feedback is going to make very little difference, knowing that people still believe/hope that Maxis is going to pull their heads out of wherever they happen to have it and add in whatever feedback they're leaving, despite being told differently.

    Anybody (myself included) who has been a long term member of the forums, along with a long term player of the game, has been there. You've left your feedback (not including the store), asked them to change or add something, defended EA/Maxis, brought that pack in the hopes that the game will become whatever you want it to be (for me, that was store content) and finally realised that they don't really care so long as they're getting money from you. You've wasted that time, that money, rather futilely (Yes, it's people's time or money to waste). It doesn't make it any the less heartbreaking. It doesn't stop you from wanting to make somebody realise that they really don't care, that if they start losing money on The Sims they'll scrap it, not take it away and improve it.

    At the same time, this isn't me saying "Stop. Go away". I know people will do what they do, no matter what.

    The End.
    Thank you for your answer. I appreciate how heartfelt it was and I understand your position better now. I hope you enjoy your break. <3
    “Honestly, we didn’t meet player expectations at launch, and that was a difficult pill to swallow,” - The Sims 4 executive producer, Rachel Franklin.
  • sparkfairy1sparkfairy1 Posts: 11,453 Member
    Nice post @Arletta :) I awesome'd it! Enjoy your break lovely. We all need that sometimes! :)
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    Erpe wrote: »
    yunagarnet wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
    Yes everybody have the right to say whatever they want. But this isn't the issue here ;)

    My problem with the discussion in this forum is that people apparently think that they can threaten EA by saying "If I don't get toddlers now then I won't pay you about $30 for the next EP/GP and I know that a few others won't buy it either! And then you will go bankruptcy because you won't be able to pay the wages for your 8400 employees!" But you don't even buy enough games to pay even the wages for a single one of those 8400 employees. To think that you are able to threaten EA by having a few hundred simmers to not pay EA $30 each is just poor math because EA's income is about $4,000,000,000 each year. You just overestimate your power so hugely that it is nothing but laughable ;)

    Okay but why do you or @Arletta even care what people choose to do with their free time or money? Like if @sparkfairy1 or any one else wants to sit here on these forums and boycott TS4 until the end of it's run why do you care? You don't get any of that money. You don't work for EA. So again why do you care? And even if the 'haters' annoy you can easily put someone on ignore. Why make passive aggressive and even borderline insulting comments to people who are just trying to let their voice be heard to save a series they have loved for the past 15 years? Why go out of your way to basically to tell someone to 'shut up and go away'. Why? Because I truly don't understand. Like even if liked this game I would never put someone down by saying their comments didn't matter - even if it's true - because it's not my place. Like it honestly just sounds like you all are trying to kick someone while they're already hurt about something they truly care about.
    I wouldn't care if those people didn't dominate the forums and actually work for the opposite result of what they think that they are working for. But even though they are actually not nearly as many as they think that they are - I see three results of their continued attack on EA and TS4 month after month:

    1. The sales numbers for TS4 may have gone slightly down. I don't think that this is enough to make EA do very much about it. But nevertheless it could motivate EA to actually lower the budget slightly for upcoming expansions.

    2. The SimGurus have left the forum because they became tired of answering questions about toddlers and similar things with "We can't talk about future stuff. We read and consider everything you write though." People just continued with that sort of questions anyway and the SimGurus moved their social activities to Twitter instead.

    3. The feeling in this forum is angry and negative and people who like the game have left the forum or use the forum much less than they would usually do.

    1. I for one stopped buying anything for this game a long time ago. There are several more like me. There are even people who refuse to buy this game. These are people that have bought everything for previous sims games 1 through 3. Previous games catered to all kinds of players and the sims 4 does not cater to all types of game play. As someone else stated to you simcity was shut down and the sims (maxis) could easily shut down do to lower sales than previous games. Any company that wants to stay a float should cater to their fans and give their fans what they want especially if they want to boost sales. Its not just the Toddler issue. There are many things this game is lacking for me and others

    2. The Gurus have been very secretive from the start of this game. All they gave us was CAS and no sample of game play. Im sure they knew a lot of people would not buy the sims 4 if people knew what they were getting in the base game. This base game had very little compared to previous sims games yet they charged actually a higher price than most AAA games. From the beginning they did not give their customers their money's worth. Now your saying they have to post somewhere else to get away from their dissatisfied customers who want answers? Answers EA has refused to give their customers from the beginning.

    3. Your right that this forum is negative. Why because some people feel the need to attack others for being dissatisfied with this game that want answers from EA. These are people that have given EA a lot of money. They want a game they can be satisfied with and got their moneys worth. There are also those few who attack people for liking the game. I ignore those posts for people liking the game because I have nothing to say to agree with them. People who don't agree with those of us who are dissatisfied should ignore our posts and post elsewhere. The forum might turn out more civil this way :)

    1. To stop buying the games is completely okay with me if you do it because you wouldn't play the games anyway. I am actually much more critical when people (in other forums) write that they bought a game only to support the continued development of the game because that doesn't work. You can't influence the development of a game either by refusing to buy it or by buying a game which you won't play anyway. The only way is to buy the games you would like to play and to refuse buying games which you don't like.

    2. I don't believe for a moment that being secretive was the gurus' own choice. When they told us that they couldn't talk about future stuff I was certain that it was because EA had forbidden them to talk about that. People just didn't accept the gurus statements because people didn't understand that the gurus would lose their jobs if they didn't obey EA's restrictions about this.

    3. I would never attack anybody for not liking TS4. TS4 isn't my favorite game either but neither was TS3. But this just doesn't mean that I will attack EA and demand EA to change the game my way because I know that EA won't do that anyway. Instead I will just wait and see how TS5 will be if the negativism here doesn't stop that game from being developed at all ;)
  • phoebebebe13phoebebebe13 Posts: 19,400 Member
    Erpe wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    yunagarnet wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
    Yes everybody have the right to say whatever they want. But this isn't the issue here ;)

    My problem with the discussion in this forum is that people apparently think that they can threaten EA by saying "If I don't get toddlers now then I won't pay you about $30 for the next EP/GP and I know that a few others won't buy it either! And then you will go bankruptcy because you won't be able to pay the wages for your 8400 employees!" But you don't even buy enough games to pay even the wages for a single one of those 8400 employees. To think that you are able to threaten EA by having a few hundred simmers to not pay EA $30 each is just poor math because EA's income is about $4,000,000,000 each year. You just overestimate your power so hugely that it is nothing but laughable ;)

    Okay but why do you or @Arletta even care what people choose to do with their free time or money? Like if @sparkfairy1 or any one else wants to sit here on these forums and boycott TS4 until the end of it's run why do you care? You don't get any of that money. You don't work for EA. So again why do you care? And even if the 'haters' annoy you can easily put someone on ignore. Why make passive aggressive and even borderline insulting comments to people who are just trying to let their voice be heard to save a series they have loved for the past 15 years? Why go out of your way to basically to tell someone to 'shut up and go away'. Why? Because I truly don't understand. Like even if liked this game I would never put someone down by saying their comments didn't matter - even if it's true - because it's not my place. Like it honestly just sounds like you all are trying to kick someone while they're already hurt about something they truly care about.
    I wouldn't care if those people didn't dominate the forums and actually work for the opposite result of what they think that they are working for. But even though they are actually not nearly as many as they think that they are - I see three results of their continued attack on EA and TS4 month after month:

    1. The sales numbers for TS4 may have gone slightly down. I don't think that this is enough to make EA do very much about it. But nevertheless it could motivate EA to actually lower the budget slightly for upcoming expansions.

    2. The SimGurus have left the forum because they became tired of answering questions about toddlers and similar things with "We can't talk about future stuff. We read and consider everything you write though." People just continued with that sort of questions anyway and the SimGurus moved their social activities to Twitter instead.

    3. The feeling in this forum is angry and negative and people who like the game have left the forum or use the forum much less than they would usually do.

    1. I for one stopped buying anything for this game a long time ago. There are several more like me. There are even people who refuse to buy this game. These are people that have bought everything for previous sims games 1 through 3. Previous games catered to all kinds of players and the sims 4 does not cater to all types of game play. As someone else stated to you simcity was shut down and the sims (maxis) could easily shut down do to lower sales than previous games. Any company that wants to stay a float should cater to their fans and give their fans what they want especially if they want to boost sales. Its not just the Toddler issue. There are many things this game is lacking for me and others

    2. The Gurus have been very secretive from the start of this game. All they gave us was CAS and no sample of game play. Im sure they knew a lot of people would not buy the sims 4 if people knew what they were getting in the base game. This base game had very little compared to previous sims games yet they charged actually a higher price than most AAA games. From the beginning they did not give their customers their money's worth. Now your saying they have to post somewhere else to get away from their dissatisfied customers who want answers? Answers EA has refused to give their customers from the beginning.

    3. Your right that this forum is negative. Why because some people feel the need to attack others for being dissatisfied with this game that want answers from EA. These are people that have given EA a lot of money. They want a game they can be satisfied with and got their moneys worth. There are also those few who attack people for liking the game. I ignore those posts for people liking the game because I have nothing to say to agree with them. People who don't agree with those of us who are dissatisfied should ignore our posts and post elsewhere. The forum might turn out more civil this way :)

    1. To stop buying the games is completely okay with me if you do it because you wouldn't play the games anyway. I am actually much more critical when people (in other forums) write that they bought a game only to support the continued development of the game because that doesn't work. You can't influence the development of a game either by refusing to buy it or by buying a game which you won't play anyway. The only way is to buy the games you would like to play and to refuse buying games which you don't like.

    2. I don't believe for a moment that being secretive was the gurus' own choice. When they told us that they couldn't talk about future stuff I was certain that it was because EA had forbidden them to talk about that. People just didn't accept the gurus statements because people didn't understand that the gurus would lose their jobs if they didn't obey EA's restrictions about this.

    3. I would never attack anybody for not liking TS4. TS4 isn't my favorite game either but neither was TS3. But this just doesn't mean that I will attack EA and demand EA to change the game my way because I know that EA won't do that anyway. Instead I will just wait and see how TS5 will be if the negativism here doesn't stop that game from being developed at all ;)

    1. Not buying the game does impact sales. A lot of people have already spent enough money that they want their moneys worth. EA is not giving these people refunds for what they have already bought. They now have the great game guarantee but they did not have it before. I see the sims 4 as false advertising. Many of us have been playing since sims 1. We have come to expect certain things in the game ( It is a series) and EA removing some of these basic features that were in previous games was a bad move on their part. Your talking this is considered one of the best series PC games of all time. There is no game or series like the sims. When you have a game like this developers should be making a game better than its predecessors. To me they are driving this series into the ground and it makes me sad. Why ruin a series that could continue to be great.

    2. Why does any game developer have to be so secretive about their game and then continue to be so secretive about anything added to the game? There are plenty of companies that will offer a demo of real game play before release. I do realize the Gurus are taking orders from EA on silence however they are the ones who are reporting back to EA on what goes on in this forum, read the treads , report back to EA on how to improve the game and what players want. This is the Feedback forum to post to EA what players want with this game. Requests or feedback in the feedback forum get ignored, deleted or moved. The gurus have the power to remove, delete or edit threads. Posting in the feedback threads falls on deaf ears. They are not listening to what players want. This is how you destroy a game. You take a look at other companies Like Square Enix who value their players opinion. They ask their players what they want and square Enix delivers . With GTA V Rockstar kept pushing back the release date on the pc version and it was well worth the wait for them to fix most of the bugs before release. Not only did EA give us a shallow base game with a AAA price tag but this game for me has more bugs than the sims 3. They should have learned from all the bugs in the sims 3 not to do it again. I help in the tech threads so I know how messed up this game is with bugs etc.

    3. I was not addressing you in particular when I stated this forum is negative. It was a general statement to those who attack each other . Especially the feedback thread. This thread is for people to leave feedback specifically for EA. It should not turn into a debate thread for those who oppose someones feedback to EA., People have a right to leave feedback for EA both negative and positive without it turning into debates. This is why I stated if someone does not agree with a negative or positive feedback thread move on to a feedback thread you agree with and leave your comment for EA.
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    Erpe wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    yunagarnet wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
    Yes everybody have the right to say whatever they want. But this isn't the issue here ;)

    My problem with the discussion in this forum is that people apparently think that they can threaten EA by saying "If I don't get toddlers now then I won't pay you about $30 for the next EP/GP and I know that a few others won't buy it either! And then you will go bankruptcy because you won't be able to pay the wages for your 8400 employees!" But you don't even buy enough games to pay even the wages for a single one of those 8400 employees. To think that you are able to threaten EA by having a few hundred simmers to not pay EA $30 each is just poor math because EA's income is about $4,000,000,000 each year. You just overestimate your power so hugely that it is nothing but laughable ;)

    Okay but why do you or @Arletta even care what people choose to do with their free time or money? Like if @sparkfairy1 or any one else wants to sit here on these forums and boycott TS4 until the end of it's run why do you care? You don't get any of that money. You don't work for EA. So again why do you care? And even if the 'haters' annoy you can easily put someone on ignore. Why make passive aggressive and even borderline insulting comments to people who are just trying to let their voice be heard to save a series they have loved for the past 15 years? Why go out of your way to basically to tell someone to 'shut up and go away'. Why? Because I truly don't understand. Like even if liked this game I would never put someone down by saying their comments didn't matter - even if it's true - because it's not my place. Like it honestly just sounds like you all are trying to kick someone while they're already hurt about something they truly care about.
    I wouldn't care if those people didn't dominate the forums and actually work for the opposite result of what they think that they are working for. But even though they are actually not nearly as many as they think that they are - I see three results of their continued attack on EA and TS4 month after month:

    1. The sales numbers for TS4 may have gone slightly down. I don't think that this is enough to make EA do very much about it. But nevertheless it could motivate EA to actually lower the budget slightly for upcoming expansions.

    2. The SimGurus have left the forum because they became tired of answering questions about toddlers and similar things with "We can't talk about future stuff. We read and consider everything you write though." People just continued with that sort of questions anyway and the SimGurus moved their social activities to Twitter instead.

    3. The feeling in this forum is angry and negative and people who like the game have left the forum or use the forum much less than they would usually do.

    1. I for one stopped buying anything for this game a long time ago. There are several more like me. There are even people who refuse to buy this game. These are people that have bought everything for previous sims games 1 through 3. Previous games catered to all kinds of players and the sims 4 does not cater to all types of game play. As someone else stated to you simcity was shut down and the sims (maxis) could easily shut down do to lower sales than previous games. Any company that wants to stay a float should cater to their fans and give their fans what they want especially if they want to boost sales. Its not just the Toddler issue. There are many things this game is lacking for me and others

    2. The Gurus have been very secretive from the start of this game. All they gave us was CAS and no sample of game play. Im sure they knew a lot of people would not buy the sims 4 if people knew what they were getting in the base game. This base game had very little compared to previous sims games yet they charged actually a higher price than most AAA games. From the beginning they did not give their customers their money's worth. Now your saying they have to post somewhere else to get away from their dissatisfied customers who want answers? Answers EA has refused to give their customers from the beginning.

    3. Your right that this forum is negative. Why because some people feel the need to attack others for being dissatisfied with this game that want answers from EA. These are people that have given EA a lot of money. They want a game they can be satisfied with and got their moneys worth. There are also those few who attack people for liking the game. I ignore those posts for people liking the game because I have nothing to say to agree with them. People who don't agree with those of us who are dissatisfied should ignore our posts and post elsewhere. The forum might turn out more civil this way :)

    1. To stop buying the games is completely okay with me if you do it because you wouldn't play the games anyway. I am actually much more critical when people (in other forums) write that they bought a game only to support the continued development of the game because that doesn't work. You can't influence the development of a game either by refusing to buy it or by buying a game which you won't play anyway. The only way is to buy the games you would like to play and to refuse buying games which you don't like.

    2. I don't believe for a moment that being secretive was the gurus' own choice. When they told us that they couldn't talk about future stuff I was certain that it was because EA had forbidden them to talk about that. People just didn't accept the gurus statements because people didn't understand that the gurus would lose their jobs if they didn't obey EA's restrictions about this.

    3. I would never attack anybody for not liking TS4. TS4 isn't my favorite game either but neither was TS3. But this just doesn't mean that I will attack EA and demand EA to change the game my way because I know that EA won't do that anyway. Instead I will just wait and see how TS5 will be if the negativism here doesn't stop that game from being developed at all ;)

    1. Not buying the game does impact sales. A lot of people have already spent enough money that they want their moneys worth. EA is not giving these people refunds for what they have already bought. They now have the great game guarantee but they did not have it before. I see the sims 4 as false advertising. Many of us have been playing since sims 1. We have come to expect certain things in the game ( It is a series) and EA removing some of these basic features that were in previous games was a bad move on their part. Your talking this is considered one of the best series PC games of all time. There is no game or series like the sims. When you have a game like this developers should be making a game better than its predecessors. To me they are driving this series into the ground and it makes me sad. Why ruin a series that could continue to be great.

    2. Why does any game developer have to be so secretive about their game and then continue to be so secretive about anything added to the game? There are plenty of companies that will offer a demo of real game play before release. I do realize the Gurus are taking orders from EA on silence however they are the ones who are reporting back to EA on what goes on in this forum, read the treads , report back to EA on how to improve the game and what players want. This is the Feedback forum to post to EA what players want with this game. Requests or feedback in the feedback forum get ignored, deleted or moved. The gurus have the power to remove, delete or edit threads. Posting in the feedback threads falls on deaf ears. They are not listening to what players want. This is how you destroy a game. You take a look at other companies Like Square Enix who value their players opinion. They ask their players what they want and square Enix delivers . With GTA V Rockstar kept pushing back the release date on the pc version and it was well worth the wait for them to fix most of the bugs before release. Not only did EA give us a shallow base game with a AAA price tag but this game for me has more bugs than the sims 3. They should have learned from all the bugs in the sims 3 not to do it again. I help in the tech threads so I know how messed up this game is with bugs etc.

    3. I was not addressing you in particular when I stated this forum is negative. It was a general statement to those who attack each other . Especially the feedback thread. This thread is for people to leave feedback specifically for EA. It should not turn into a debate thread for those who oppose someones feedback to EA., People have a right to leave feedback for EA both negative and positive without it turning into debates. This is why I stated if someone does not agree with a negative or positive feedback thread move on to a feedback thread you agree with and leave your comment for EA.
    1. In principle I totally agree with you that new versions of the game should become better and better. But new versions should also be different from the previous versions. This means that some of the old content shouldn't be in the new version and that other things should be added instead. Other game companies quite often make the new versions of their games almost identical to the old versions. But then it feels like a waste of money to keep buying the same game again and again. So sales numbers go down and the series are stopped (often with an accompanying bankruptcy of the game company). Therefore EA changes their games more than most game companies do. But to do this without aggravating old customers is extremely difficult. Anyway toddlers and open neighborhood haven't been part of all previous (and successful) Sims games. So the team obviously though that those things weren't that necessary.

    2. I agree that the basegame felt like having less content than the previous games. But the reason for this was probably that the new emotions didn't really impress us in the way that they were meant to do. The same was true about the new multitasking.

    About the removal of the open neighborhood: I always thought that it was a mistake to have included the open neighborhood in TS3 because it had forced the team to a huge number of simplifications compared to TS2 for technical reasons. Most of those simplifications were well hidden and not too obvious for most simmers though. But we couldn't switch between families without risking a lot and TS3 had much fewer sims in each world than TS2 had - and TS3 also had huge technical problems with subneighborhoods. This gave technical problems with the expansions which was probably the reason why the team decided to not include the open world in TS4 too.
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