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Is this enough proof that The Sims 4 is a flop?

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  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    CK213 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    That recent interview killed the Sims 4 for me I admit.

    I know. It made me so frustrated, and at this rate, if they don't open the world for the sims 5 then I'm quitting the franchise.

    Sales not being what you expected is the first sign that you're on the wrong track.

    For anyone who hasn't read the most recent interview.

    http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/14/the-future-of-the-sims-4-interview-it-is-kind-of-like-life-5390869/

    2 + 3 = 5
    I should make a siggy out of it.
    Do a remake of TS2, translating, remaining, enrichment of TS2 worlds as open TS3 worlds.
    Bring back CASt. Feel free to sprinkle in the best features of TS4.

    Of course 2+3+4= 9, and it will probably take up to The Sims 9 for EA to finally perfect the perfect Sims game. :#
    You are an optimist ;)

    If the Sims 4 should be selling as poorly as a lot of people here seem to hope then it will only take a few months from now before EA will tell us all something like the following:

    "We are closing down Maxis and during the next months we will be moving employees from Maxis to our other divisions. The reason is the sales numbers for PC games becoming lower all the time where especially the PC games developed by Maxis (SimCity and Sims) have been very expensive to develop without getting satisfying sales numbers. Maxis will finish a few more expansions for TS4 though because those expansions are already in development. But nevertheless we have also cancelled some of the planned expansions for TS4. Considerations about a future development of TS5 has also been completely stopped. The closure of Maxis doesn't mean that we won't continue the Sims franchise for other platforms though. We can mention that the Sims Freeplay also in the future will be one of our main games for mobile devices."

    I just don't understand why people here don't see the danger that this could actually happen. Why would anybody here want this??
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    So if 1+2+3=6, I won't get a cool Sims game until the Sims 6? :cry:
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    edited September 2015
    Scobre wrote: »
    That recent interview killed the Sims 4 for me I admit.

    I know. It made me so frustrated, and at this rate, if they don't open the world for the sims 5 then I'm quitting the franchise.

    Same, I'm completely skipping out on TS5 if it isn't an open world, but for me, it also has to be functional, innovative, large, and just fully fleshed out. It also shouldn't compromise the intelligence of the Sims and the quality of gameplay itself. I don't want to see any rabbit holes either.

    It was possible in 2009, it was possible in 2014, and it will be more than possible in ~2018.
  • ArlettaArletta Posts: 8,444 Member
    Erpe wrote: »
    CK213 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    That recent interview killed the Sims 4 for me I admit.

    I know. It made me so frustrated, and at this rate, if they don't open the world for the sims 5 then I'm quitting the franchise.

    Sales not being what you expected is the first sign that you're on the wrong track.

    For anyone who hasn't read the most recent interview.

    http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/14/the-future-of-the-sims-4-interview-it-is-kind-of-like-life-5390869/

    2 + 3 = 5
    I should make a siggy out of it.
    Do a remake of TS2, translating, remaining, enrichment of TS2 worlds as open TS3 worlds.
    Bring back CASt. Feel free to sprinkle in the best features of TS4.

    Of course 2+3+4= 9, and it will probably take up to The Sims 9 for EA to finally perfect the perfect Sims game. :#
    You are an optimist ;)

    If the Sims 4 should be selling as poorly as a lot of people here seem to hope then it will only take a few months from now before EA will tell us all something like the following:

    "We are closing down Maxis and during the next months we will be moving employees from Maxis to our other divisions. The reason is the sales numbers for PC games becoming lower all the time where especially the PC games developed by Maxis (SimCity and Sims) have been very expensive to develop without getting satisfying sales numbers. Maxis will finish a few more expansions for TS4 though because those expansions are already in development. But nevertheless we have also cancelled some of the planned expansions for TS4. Considerations about a future development of TS5 has also been completely stopped. The closure of Maxis doesn't mean that we won't continue the Sims franchise for other platforms though. We can mention that the Sims Freeplay also in the future will be one of our main games for mobile devices."

    I just don't understand why people here don't see the danger that this could actually happen. Why would anybody here want this??

    People see the danger, of course they do, and they fight so passionately to get EA to sit up and realise that if they put some better investment and resources then the issues causing the complaints would be dealt with and they would actually have more customers to make profits from. It makes zero sense for me, as a customer, to support a development team who refuse to acknowledge the issues and let me know if the improvements with be forthcoming. Up to now my premium priced preorder Sims 4 game has been a very expensive mistake. The ball is in EAs court whether they ever intend that to change. Their actions and words so far aren't hopeful.

    *takes a deep breath*

    Except we're talking about EA. They are not in the habit of listening to their customers. They never have been. They never will be. You are talking about a company who let a game die (not the first, I'm sure) rather than listen to people and take the game offline. There is no reason to believe that they will not do the same with The Sims. After all, there's Freeplay (save them making an app if it does die).

    You're sat there (not necessarily you personally) saying "This game is terrible. It needs to die, so they can release a better version". I can guarantee that they will let The Sims die (barring Freeplay) than actually listen to you (or indeed anybody). Should that happen there won't be a better version.

    The recent interview. You have been told in no uncertain way that toddlers don't matter (and therefore the potential money they could get from you doesn't matter), that the game is more than family play. How much more starker english do you need them to say that they do not care and for you to believe that.

    We're way past the point of getting EA to take notice. Please get it into your head that they won't notice, nor will they care if they do. (sorry)

  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    Erpe wrote: »
    CK213 wrote: »
    Scobre wrote: »
    That recent interview killed the Sims 4 for me I admit.

    I know. It made me so frustrated, and at this rate, if they don't open the world for the sims 5 then I'm quitting the franchise.

    Sales not being what you expected is the first sign that you're on the wrong track.

    For anyone who hasn't read the most recent interview.

    http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/14/the-future-of-the-sims-4-interview-it-is-kind-of-like-life-5390869/

    2 + 3 = 5
    I should make a siggy out of it.
    Do a remake of TS2, translating, remaining, enrichment of TS2 worlds as open TS3 worlds.
    Bring back CASt. Feel free to sprinkle in the best features of TS4.

    Of course 2+3+4= 9, and it will probably take up to The Sims 9 for EA to finally perfect the perfect Sims game. :#
    You are an optimist ;)

    If the Sims 4 should be selling as poorly as a lot of people here seem to hope then it will only take a few months from now before EA will tell us all something like the following:

    "We are closing down Maxis and during the next months we will be moving employees from Maxis to our other divisions. The reason is the sales numbers for PC games becoming lower all the time where especially the PC games developed by Maxis (SimCity and Sims) have been very expensive to develop without getting satisfying sales numbers. Maxis will finish a few more expansions for TS4 though because those expansions are already in development. But nevertheless we have also cancelled some of the planned expansions for TS4. Considerations about a future development of TS5 has also been completely stopped. The closure of Maxis doesn't mean that we won't continue the Sims franchise for other platforms though. We can mention that the Sims Freeplay also in the future will be one of our main games for mobile devices."

    I just don't understand why people here don't see the danger that this could actually happen. Why would anybody here want this??

    People see the danger, of course they do, and they fight so passionately to get EA to sit up and realise that if they put some better investment and resources then the issues causing the complaints would be dealt with and they would actually have more customers to make profits from. It makes zero sense for me, as a customer, to support a development team who refuse to acknowledge the issues and let me know if the improvements with be forthcoming. Up to now my premium priced preorder Sims 4 game has been a very expensive mistake. The ball is in EAs court whether they ever intend that to change. Their actions and words so far aren't hopeful.
    The main problem is that the top of EA don't read the forum and they know that one or two out of every thousand people who bought the game will ever be in the forum. They also know how extremely well TS1 sold without neither toddlers nor an open world. So even if somebody tells them that a few hundreds out of the million people who bought this game rather will let the whole Sims series die than play it without toddlers then EA's top would just laugh.

    For EA's top things are simple: As long as a game series sell well they will continue the series. When any series stop selling well then EA will just abandon the series and focus on something else.

    The SimGurus would probably like very much to discuss the future content of TS4 with us. But I am sure that they have all signed a contract which forbid them to discuss the content of unannounced future games until such games are officially announced and the employees working on them have gotten explicit permission to tell about such content. EA's top won't allow rumors to circulate which EA would later have to refuse later because of changes in the plans. EA's top also want everybody to be curious about future content which wouldn't be the case if everybody knew the plans for future releases. It is free advertisement for EA to have people discussing hopes about future content instead of people leaving the discussions because everybody already know what EA plans to release.
  • sparkfairy1sparkfairy1 Posts: 11,453 Member
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    edited September 2015
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
    Yes everybody have the right to say whatever they want. But this isn't the issue here ;)

    My problem with the discussion in this forum is that people apparently think that they can threaten EA by saying "If I don't get toddlers now then I won't pay you about $30 for the next EP/GP and I know that a few others won't buy it either! And then you will go bankruptcy because you won't be able to pay the wages for your 8400 employees!" But you don't even buy enough games to pay even the wages for a single one of those 8400 employees. To think that you are able to threaten EA by having a few hundred simmers to not pay EA $30 each is just poor math because EA's income is about $4,000,000,000 each year. You just overestimate your power so hugely that it is nothing but laughable ;)
  • ChadSims2ChadSims2 Posts: 5,090 Member
    edited September 2015
    Erpe wrote: »
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
    Yes everybody have the right to say whatever they want. But this isn't the issue here ;)

    My problem with the discussion in this forum is that people apparently think that they can threaten EA by saying "If I don't get toddlers now then I won't pay you about $30 for the next EP/GP and I know that a few others won't buy it either! And then you will go bankruptcy because you won't be able to pay the wages for your 8400 employees!" But you don't even buy enough games to pay even the wages for a single one of those 8400 employees. To think that you are able to threaten EA by having a few hundred simmers to not pay EA $30 each is just poor math because EA's income is about $4,000,000,000 each year. You just overestimate your power so hugely that it is nothing but laughable ;)
    [img]http://www.🐸🐸🐸🐸/images/spongebob-face/you-mad-bro-yeah-you-mad.jpg[/img]
    Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    yunagarnet wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    @Arletta @Erpe you may think you are telling something I don't know. I know. I'm not daft. But I'm an eternal optimist and I don't care what EA'S MO if I think that they have got my money and taken advantage I will say so. Because that is how I choose to do so. I'm not breaking rules, I'm not insulting anyone and I'm not telling you what to do with how you feel about the game. Please respect the right for me to do what I want to do, as you do as you will :) Thank you.
    Yes everybody have the right to say whatever they want. But this isn't the issue here ;)

    My problem with the discussion in this forum is that people apparently think that they can threaten EA by saying "If I don't get toddlers now then I won't pay you about $30 for the next EP/GP and I know that a few others won't buy it either! And then you will go bankruptcy because you won't be able to pay the wages for your 8400 employees!" But you don't even buy enough games to pay even the wages for a single one of those 8400 employees. To think that you are able to threaten EA by having a few hundred simmers to not pay EA $30 each is just poor math because EA's income is about $4,000,000,000 each year. You just overestimate your power so hugely that it is nothing but laughable ;)

    Okay but why do you or @Arletta even care what people choose to do with their free time or money? Like if @sparkfairy1 or any one else wants to sit here on these forums and boycott TS4 until the end of it's run why do you care? You don't get any of that money. You don't work for EA. So again why do you care? And even if the 'haters' annoy you can easily put someone on ignore. Why make passive aggressive and even borderline insulting comments to people who are just trying to let their voice be heard to save a series they have loved for the past 15 years? Why go out of your way to basically to tell someone to 'shut up and go away'. Why? Because I truly don't understand. Like even if liked this game I would never put someone down by saying their comments didn't matter - even if it's true - because it's not my place. Like it honestly just sounds like you all are trying to kick someone while they're already hurt about something they truly care about.
    I wouldn't care if those people didn't dominate the forums and actually work for the opposite result of what they think that they are working for. But even though they are actually not nearly as many as they think that they are - I see three results of their continued attack on EA and TS4 month after month:

    1. The sales numbers for TS4 may have gone slightly down. I don't think that this is enough to make EA do very much about it. But nevertheless it could motivate EA to actually lower the budget slightly for upcoming expansions.

    2. The SimGurus have left the forum because they became tired of answering questions about toddlers and similar things with "We can't talk about future stuff. We read and consider everything you write though." People just continued with that sort of questions anyway and the SimGurus moved their social activities to Twitter instead.

    3. The feeling in this forum is angry and negative and people who like the game have left the forum or use the forum much less than they would usually do.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited September 2015
    Erpe wrote: »
    2. The SimGurus have left the forum because they became tired of answering questions about toddlers and similar things with "We can't talk about future stuff. We read and consider everything you write though." People just continued with that sort of questions anyway and the SimGurus moved their social activities to Twitter instead.
    Sad when Twitter has vandalism threats going on now. Facebook is becoming pretty intense too. Only "safe" place there seems to be now is Reddit and some of the fan sites that ban everyone that disagrees with them it seems. I wouldn't touch Twitter with a ten foot pole. Scary environment.

    But please look into this if possible @SimGuruDrake. It scares me.
    Post edited by Scobre on
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    2. The SimGurus have left the forum because they became tired of answering questions about toddlers and similar things with "We can't talk about future stuff. We read and consider everything you write though." People just continued with that sort of questions anyway and the SimGurus moved their social activities to Twitter instead.
    Sad when Twitter has vandalism threats going on now. Facebook is becoming pretty intense too. Only "safe" place there seems to be now is Reddit and some of the fan sites that ban everyone that disagrees with them it seems. I wouldn't touch Twitter with a ten foot pole. Scary environment.

    But please look into this if possible @SimGuruDrake. It scares me.
    Yes I haven't visited Twitter recently. But the SimGurus were very active there at the time when they left this forum. My impressions from the notifications which I receive from Twitter seem to confirm that the SimGurus have move away from Twitter too now.

    The attacks on EA and the SimGurus only have the effect that the SimGurus will move on to another place where they can share jokes and fun without being attacked. Again the toddler fanatics don't at all get what they want by forcing the SimGurus to leave a social media.
  • sparkfairy1sparkfairy1 Posts: 11,453 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    Yes I haven't visited Twitter recently. But the SimGurus were very active there at the time when they left this forum. My impressions from the notifications which I receive from Twitter seem to confirm that the SimGurus have move away from Twitter too now.

    The attacks on EA and the SimGurus only have the effect that the SimGurus will move on to another place where they can share jokes and fun without being attacked. Again the toddler fanatics don't at all get what they want by forcing the SimGurus to leave a social media.
    Either way, just because I want toddlers doesn't mean I think these violent actions should be taken. Be careful not to generalize people and put stereotypes on them and label them with childish terms like toddler fanatics. I don't call people cheerleaders because I think it is rude too. I also don't think the Sims 4 should be scrapped either. Sparkfairy is one of the nicest Simmers I've met since joining forums. I do not appreciate personal attacks on anyone whether they work for Maxis or not. Basically no matter where you go, when personal attacks occur it makes it an unpleasant environment for everyone. I have noticed personal attacks on Reddit, so at this rate, it is only a matter of time before Gurus stop going there too. What will happen though when Gurus cut contact completely? Will the Sims 4 still listen to customers or will they develop games based on telemetry stats only? That is what I'm afraid of. I don't like having games be developed based on stats only.

    Thank you @Scobre :)

    @Erpe you cannot categorise all simmers who want toddlers as 'fanatics' and claim it their 'fault' gurus aren't active. You don't know why gurus aren't active-they haven't said.

    People are ridiculous sometimes, and that sort of thing is completely out of line. Most people would agree with that. It's not appropriate.

    I have been very courteous and helpful in my direct contact with gurus, and have been so privately too. I have gone out of my way to help them. Just because I'm not happy with the game as is doesn't mean I'm 'negative' or a bad person. R
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,872 Member
    @Scobre I wrote "toddler fanatics" because some of them are just that. I fully understand why people want toddlers and I also fully understand why some of the simmers were very disappointed that the developers didn't include the open world from TS3 in TS4 too. But when they attack EA and discredit the SimsGurus writing that they have distroyed the game and that they won't buy any more expansions until EA admits the mistake and apologize then they are fanatics who think that they are in charge of EA and can force EA to do just what they want.

    People have only two choices:
    1. Keep playing the game even though it isn't perfect in their opinion.
    2. Find another game to play instead.

    To think that they can force EA to obey them and change the game in exactly the direction they want just shows that they don't understand how EA works and how EA decides which games to make. EA has never obeyed any limited group of customers and EA has always just abandoned games which didn't sell well anymore. This is what will happen to this game too if enough people stop buying the TS4 expansions.

    I see two possibilities for toddlers in TS4 (even though there are probably more):
    1. EA could release a "Toddler Life" GP with toddlers and activities for toddlers. But I don't really believe that EA will do this because it would be too much repetition from earlier games and a lot of people might not buy it.
    2. EA could release a "Pets and Toddlers" EP. This could seem to be just repetion too. But a new idea could be to focus a lot on activities where toddlers were playing with kittens and puppies. I think that such an EP would actually sell very well. But will EA agree?
  • sparkfairy1sparkfairy1 Posts: 11,453 Member
    Thank you @yunagarnet I am glad someone pays attention and knows the reality that I used to defend the gurus until I couldn't do so any more in good conscience! :)

    Yes its funny how in one breath what I say doesn't matter, then in another I'm 'dominating' things. Then how it's okay to trash other simmers who have zero to do with development decisions but it's not okay to give feedback within rules that disagrees with the gurus 'vision'. Despite the rules saying ALL FEEDBACK is welcome.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    yunagarnet wrote: »
    Erpe wrote: »
    Yes I haven't visited Twitter recently. But the SimGurus were very active there at the time when they left this forum. My impressions from the notifications which I receive from Twitter seem to confirm that the SimGurus have move away from Twitter too now.

    The attacks on EA and the SimGurus only have the effect that the SimGurus will move on to another place where they can share jokes and fun without being attacked. Again the toddler fanatics don't at all get what they want by forcing the SimGurus to leave a social media.

    You do realize that there are people who dislike this game and the reasons have nothing to do with toddlers right? Plus how are you going to talk about not attacking the Gurus yet your posts have been filled with comments attacking other fans like calling them 'fanatics'. Maybe you should try following your own advice before telling others what to do. People shouldn't attack the guru's but if you knew as much you think you knew, you would know there were a lot of people who defended the Gurus for months - @sparkfairy1 included - and the state of the forums is a direct result of the anger and hurt people feel over months and months of silence from the Gurus even after they claimed they were 'listening'. So no one is to blame for the state of the forums right now except the gurus and EA. If the Gurus had actually talked to us and did damage control a lot of people wouldn't feel like they needed to boycott the game.

    Besides the gurus are not the first set of developers who have put out a product that got backlash and they certainty won't be the last. It happened with FFXIV, Dragon Age, Mass Effect 3, etc. You know what happened with those games? The developers went back to see what the problem was and fixed it. FFXIV is currently one of the biggest MMOs right now. Dragon Age: Inquisition was Game of the Year. Mass Effect is getting another sequel even though it was originally only intended to be a trilogy. The Gurus aren't children and I don't understand why people act like we should treat them as such. Other developers (some even under EA as well.) have dealt with the same amount of backlash and they didn't blatantly ignore the fans - they listened to them instead and received great payoff for doing so.
    I couldn't have said it better myself. There have been so many ill words said since that interview with Rachel which I think are unwarranted. There is so much mystery with the Sims 4, it is pointless to speak on behalf on them. No one knows what is going on internally other than Maxis. Why does it matter so much what people do with their wallets now? It didn't matter before while Simmers were telling others to stop participating in forums, not to buy packs, and not to play games and bully them off all the Sims fan sites. I hate to say it but if Sims 4 does stop being developed, the negative word of mouth will show Simmers they get what they ask for just like what happened with SimCity 2013. Bullying customers does nothing but drive people away whether it is done by EA or not.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
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