I don't get it myself... my daughter (grown) and I were both happy no toddlers. We like our games without them. I hope they don't add them in a patch or an EP. I know that isn't a popular opinion but it's ours. I like the way my generations flow now. In TS2 and TS3 I hated the time it took to deal with the toddler phase. It was disproportionate to the other ages for me. Yes, it was realistic, but I had my kids and they are all grown now. I don't want to spend all of my time getting my sims to change diapers and potty training.
I do however agree that it is more likely to come in an EP than a patch. You may get the age group and some very basic hairs/clothes/items in a patch, but the real content will be in a pack. That is just my opinion.
As for deserving and demanding toddlers. They weren't in the base game. If you purchased the base game as is, then you told EA that you were OK with no toddlers. You can say that you were vocal in telling them you expect toddlers later on, but actions speak far louder than words!
I don't get it myself... my daughter (grown) and I were both happy no toddlers. We like our games without them. I hope they don't add them in a patch or an EP. I know that isn't a popular opinion but it's ours. I like the way my generations flow now. In TS2 and TS3 I hated the time it took to deal with the toddler phase. It was disproportionate to the other ages for me. Yes, it was realistic, but I had my kids and they are all grown now. I don't want to spend all of my time getting my sims to change diapers and potty training.
I do however agree that it is more likely to come in an EP than a patch. You may get the age group and some very basic hairs/clothes/items in a patch, but the real content will be in a pack. That is just my opinion.
As for deserving and demanding toddlers. They weren't in the base game. If you purchased the base game as is, then you told EA that you were OK with no toddlers. You can say that you were vocal in telling them you expect toddlers later on, but actions speak far louder than words!
WEll then you must be okay with kids that never grow up, no teens, no YA's, and no Elders. Adults and babies that turned to kids were the only life stages of Sims 1 (the first test there were adults, babies, and kids with the baby not even aging into a kid - did you know that - there was no aging period). There were no cars - just car pools. (In fact the first rendition it was just those Sims in a house they never left - as careers and schools were not really a thought in testing, but was added before the final testing as well as car pools and buses - but even then School and work was every day. No days off from work or school - every day was a school day and a work day. Is that what you want. Also no weather in Sims 1. No University in Sims 1. Just the one world in Sims 1. You like that too I suppose. If you must find no toddler acceptable then you must find all the other stuff as acceptable then. You should be wishing just for the 3 life ages with none of the things that made Sims 2 - not Sims 1 the best selling game of all time.
In fact when they introduced Sims 2 - they proclaimed that all the things people stated over the 4 years of Sims 1 people thought the game needed to fill it out into the perfect game - the number one thing was all the life stages - and Sims lives that were more like ours and less like dolls in a dollhouse. As Will Wright said - Sims 1 was based on Dolls in a doll house -and doll houses came with a dad, a mom, a child, and a baby. No one ever aged, death and disaster never befell them, and things for the dolls all revolved with living together in the house forever.
Also it was said just the Sims 1 base game was planned as the complete game, as just like his Sims antz and other Sims games thus far were all a complete game in just the introduction game which of course later got called a base game. But because of people who fell in love with that main game - the Maxis team was asked if they were perhaps interested in going more in depth into these little Sims lives - as EA was sure getting lots of mail wanting more out of the game.... and thus The Sims became a series game as the team made eps to go more in depth with the dolls in the doll house based on what players were saying they would like to see. Where Will saw dolls in a dollhouse (in fact the original name of the game was "The Dollhouse" - ) the players saw themselves as God and the Sims as us and wanted things in the game that we had in real life and did.
So don't go pulling out the original game scenario as that was after all just a dollhouse. The series is thanks to the testers and later the players of that doll house that wanted the dolls, their world, and everything about them brought to life. I was a tester for Will Wright as was one other member of my family. I was there when Will Wright first introduced the idea to a bunch of us Sims City players.
ETA - I don't know - but saying players should be happy with the game backtracked all the way to the very first Sims base game is like saying people should have been happy with Gas light, horse and Buggies, and making your own clothes by hand. Those things were fine enough in their time as that was what people had - but life moves ever onward and forward, things are made in life to make things in general better for people. Electricity, cars, radios, tv. computers - travel cars, airplanes, even space ships all move the world forward and ever changing for the betterment of mankind. Even though some of us might do a few things like the pilgrims did now and then - would any of us ever vote to go all the way back to those days where all life revolved around us just existing. Same could be said the same for the sims - seeing regression is never a good thing. I mean would you like to go back in time where kids married at 14 - and their lives were pretty much over if they were lucky to live to 40 or 50 - where all life revolved around just existing? Well that is how we look at the game also. I am sure when gas light was first introduced to mankind - just like fire itself it was the greatest thing ever- but thank goodness to the efforts of those who look ever forward we moved onward to bigger and better things. PLagues that killed billions now a days have cures - infections of old would kill you and then man discovered penicillin, and so forth and so forth. Look at the whole picture and be grateful people are not happy to settle - they want better that the previous generations had it for a reason. To stay in the same spot and be happy with it is to stagnant. of course that is on a grande scale and I realize this is just a game we are talking about - but the fact remains doing things better than they were done before and not reversing the direction is always considered the direction people travel. You should learn from your past mistakes and do better - not return to the past mistakes. It's the human way for the betterment of mankind. it simply is.
Check your facts. Also, the tech in the Sims 2 was not available during the run of TS1. You must have not started with TS1.
You kind of have yourself to blame for a portion of the disappointment.
No, we don't. Toddlers SHOULD have been in the game on launch, 9 months later and they're still nowhere to be found. It isn't our fault that the developers were given a tight budget and timeframe, it isn't our fault they they tried to make a social game. Toddlers need to come, and fast. I wouldn't even mind paying for them, but then I think about people who might not be able to afford a new EP and already bought the base game, so they need to come in a patch. There's no such thing as something being too big for a patch, if they can be added in an EP they can be added in a patch.
I agree completely. I don't think we deserve any blame for toddlers not being in the sims 4. This was something along with 80 plus other things that was left out and should have been added. EA is to blame for giving us a half finished game. Anyone that has to pay for toddlers in an ep that should have been free to begin with should protest and let EA know they are not going to stand for it.
You kind of have yourself to blame for a portion of the disappointment.
No, we don't. Toddlers SHOULD have been in the game on launch, 9 months later and they're still nowhere to be found. It isn't our fault that the developers were given a tight budget and timeframe, it isn't our fault they they tried to make a social game. Toddlers need to come, and fast. I wouldn't even mind paying for them, but then I think about people who might not be able to afford a new EP and already bought the base game, so they need to come in a patch. There's no such thing as something being too big for a patch, if they can be added in an EP they can be added in a patch.
I agree completely. I don't think we deserve any blame for toddlers not being in the sims 4. This was something along with 80 plus other things that was left out and should have been added. EA is to blame for giving us a half finished game. Anyone that has to pay for toddlers in an ep that should have been free to begin with should protest and let EA know they are not going to stand for it.
The customer is never to blame. We don't control anything about the production of the game. It's the job of the development team to 🐸🐸🐸🐸 what their customers want and deliver that to them. Literally, that is their job. The fact we have no toddlers, and we have no word on toddlers mean that they are not delivering what the majority, and yes I say majority, of their customers want.
I'm sure there will be players who do not like the toddler life stage, and are not bothered by it not being included, but I paid full retail price for a AAA title. What I got is not on the same level of quality as the past installments and the teams vision is clouding their judgement of what they think players want. Would adding in toddlers improve the quality of the game? No, but it would improve gameplay for many players. Gameplay is what is most important here, not Pets or Seasons or anything else like that. The game at it's core should offer the player a wide variety of things to do. EA hasn't seemed to notice the terrible gameplay, because none of the people in charge of the game actually play the game. There are plenty of gaming companies that actually strive to make great games that captivate the people they are selling it to. The Sims 4 doesn't do that, and unless they start actually producing meaningful content that players are asking for we are going to continue to see a divided community and backlash when things are added that no one was asking for.
I'm sure the uproar on the forums yesterday is being discussed by the management of Maxis and EA. A team having a vision for a franchise doesn't entitle them to ignore player interest in exchange for developer interest. If they haven't come to the realization that the bulk of their player base is appalled that toddlers were not included, then they need to find a new market research team.
You kind of have yourself to blame for a portion of the disappointment.
No, we don't. Toddlers SHOULD have been in the game on launch, 9 months later and they're still nowhere to be found. It isn't our fault that the developers were given a tight budget and timeframe, it isn't our fault they they tried to make a social game. Toddlers need to come, and fast. I wouldn't even mind paying for them, but then I think about people who might not be able to afford a new EP and already bought the base game, so they need to come in a patch. There's no such thing as something being too big for a patch, if they can be added in an EP they can be added in a patch.
I agree completely. I don't think we deserve any blame for toddlers not being in the sims 4. This was something along with 80 plus other things that was left out and should have been added. EA is to blame for giving us a half finished game. Anyone that has to pay for toddlers in an ep that should have been free to begin with should protest and let EA know they are not going to stand for it.
The customer is never to blame. We don't control anything about the production of the game. It's the job of the development team to 🐸🐸🐸🐸 what their customers want and deliver that to them. Literally, that is their job. The fact we have no toddlers, and we have no word on toddlers mean that they are not delivering what the majority, and yes I say majority, of their customers want.
I'm sure there will be players who do not like the toddler life stage, and are not bothered by it not being included, but I paid full retail price for a AAA title. What I got is not on the same level of quality as the past installments and the teams vision is clouding their judgement of what they think players want. Would adding in toddlers improve the quality of the game? No, but it would improve gameplay for many players. Gameplay is what is most important here, not Pets or Seasons or anything else like that. The game at it's core should offer the player a wide variety of things to do. EA hasn't seemed to notice the terrible gameplay, because none of the people in charge of the game actually play the game. There are plenty of gaming companies that actually strive to make great games that captivate the people they are selling it to. The Sims 4 doesn't do that, and unless they start actually producing meaningful content that players are asking for we are going to continue to see a divided community and backlash when things are added that no one was asking for.
I'm sure the uproar on the forums yesterday is being discussed by the management of Maxis and EA. A team having a vision for a franchise doesn't entitle them to ignore player interest in exchange for developer interest. If they haven't come to the realization that the bulk of their player base is appalled that toddlers were not included, then they need to find a new market research team.
How do you think we deserve toddlers? Sorry but I like the game without those annoying little things. MHO though.
Well, lets see if the Sims 4 can live that long without the missing Toddler or anything that made the Sims successfull. Sim City 5 failed too because they failed to know what the people really wanted. But i guess it will be enough because the Sims 4 is clearly for more the younger audience, that dosen't play the Sims like it should be played, at least i thought i play a Life Simulator Game and without every Life Stage it isn't one, its a farce and disgrace and with this many linear tasks really more like an RPG for Kids.
Some people want um and others don't. The life cycle just doesn't seem right with out them. All EA put in the New Sims 4 is a bunch of 🐸🐸🐸🐸, as far as I am concerned there is nothing new no new or interesting things. This is the worst that they have ever done even worse then Sims 3 with all the problems. I will never learn.
You kind of have yourself to blame for a portion of the disappointment.
No, we don't. Toddlers SHOULD have been in the game on launch, 9 months later and they're still nowhere to be found. It isn't our fault that the developers were given a tight budget and timeframe, it isn't our fault they they tried to make a social game. Toddlers need to come, and fast. I wouldn't even mind paying for them, but then I think about people who might not be able to afford a new EP and already bought the base game, so they need to come in a patch. There's no such thing as something being too big for a patch, if they can be added in an EP they can be added in a patch.
I agree completely. I don't think we deserve any blame for toddlers not being in the sims 4. This was something along with 80 plus other things that was left out and should have been added. EA is to blame for giving us a half finished game. Anyone that has to pay for toddlers in an ep that should have been free to begin with should protest and let EA know they are not going to stand for it.
The customer is never to blame. We don't control anything about the production of the game. It's the job of the development team to 🐸🐸🐸🐸 what their customers want and deliver that to them. Literally, that is their job. The fact we have no toddlers, and we have no word on toddlers mean that they are not delivering what the majority, and yes I say majority, of their customers want.
I'm sure there will be players who do not like the toddler life stage, and are not bothered by it not being included, but I paid full retail price for a AAA title. What I got is not on the same level of quality as the past installments and the teams vision is clouding their judgement of what they think players want. Would adding in toddlers improve the quality of the game? No, but it would improve gameplay for many players. Gameplay is what is most important here, not Pets or Seasons or anything else like that. The game at it's core should offer the player a wide variety of things to do. EA hasn't seemed to notice the terrible gameplay, because none of the people in charge of the game actually play the game. There are plenty of gaming companies that actually strive to make great games that captivate the people they are selling it to. The Sims 4 doesn't do that, and unless they start actually producing meaningful content that players are asking for we are going to continue to see a divided community and backlash when things are added that no one was asking for.
I'm sure the uproar on the forums yesterday is being discussed by the management of Maxis and EA. A team having a vision for a franchise doesn't entitle them to ignore player interest in exchange for developer interest. If they haven't come to the realization that the bulk of their player base is appalled that toddlers were not included, then they need to find a new market research team.
How do you think we deserve toddlers? Sorry but I like the game without those annoying little things. MHO though.
We don't deserve anything. Video games are not a fundamental right, they are not required for life to go on. Businesses aren't required to give players anything specific either, but that is how they make money. So if they ignore what players want, they aren't going to make as much as they would had they given players what they asked for. In this case toddlers, they weren't a separate game addition in either of the 2 base games released in the last 10 years. Now, that's what they inevitably will be if they are added. Bare with me now for this example: Let's say the same team released a seasons EP, which has been a popular EP for the last two installments, but within that EP they included everything except rain. Because it wasn't ready before release. Would you be willing to pay an additional fee for such a feature just because they couldn't get it done in time? Would you be okay if that feature was abandoned all together? This is the problem I have with toddlers. Not the fact we "deserve" them, but the fact that they removed a core feature present in the past two iterations of the franchise, simply because THEY ran out of time.
I never once said "we deserve toddlers". I did say EA should research their customer base and determine what exactly players expect. If they can't deliver what is expected then they will lose business. I'm not going to pay a stylist 25$ to only cut my hair on half of my head, so I will go to another one where I can get better service. The same is true for video games, most are a dime a dozen. Just because the sims doesn't have a competitor atm doesn't mean a year from now it won't. Once it becomes a competitive market, and believe me it will, the winner will be who delivers the better product. Just like that stylist who only cut half of what I wanted, they end up losing out because they didn't provide the same quality of service.
You kind of have yourself to blame for a portion of the disappointment.
No, we don't. Toddlers SHOULD have been in the game on launch, 9 months later and they're still nowhere to be found. It isn't our fault that the developers were given a tight budget and timeframe, it isn't our fault they they tried to make a social game. Toddlers need to come, and fast. I wouldn't even mind paying for them, but then I think about people who might not be able to afford a new EP and already bought the base game, so they need to come in a patch. There's no such thing as something being too big for a patch, if they can be added in an EP they can be added in a patch.
I agree completely. I don't think we deserve any blame for toddlers not being in the sims 4. This was something along with 80 plus other things that was left out and should have been added. EA is to blame for giving us a half finished game. Anyone that has to pay for toddlers in an ep that should have been free to begin with should protest and let EA know they are not going to stand for it.
The customer is never to blame. We don't control anything about the production of the game. It's the job of the development team to 🐸🐸🐸🐸 what their customers want and deliver that to them. Literally, that is their job. The fact we have no toddlers, and we have no word on toddlers mean that they are not delivering what the majority, and yes I say majority, of their customers want.
I'm sure there will be players who do not like the toddler life stage, and are not bothered by it not being included, but I paid full retail price for a AAA title. What I got is not on the same level of quality as the past installments and the teams vision is clouding their judgement of what they think players want. Would adding in toddlers improve the quality of the game? No, but it would improve gameplay for many players. Gameplay is what is most important here, not Pets or Seasons or anything else like that. The game at it's core should offer the player a wide variety of things to do. EA hasn't seemed to notice the terrible gameplay, because none of the people in charge of the game actually play the game. There are plenty of gaming companies that actually strive to make great games that captivate the people they are selling it to. The Sims 4 doesn't do that, and unless they start actually producing meaningful content that players are asking for we are going to continue to see a divided community and backlash when things are added that no one was asking for.
I'm sure the uproar on the forums yesterday is being discussed by the management of Maxis and EA. A team having a vision for a franchise doesn't entitle them to ignore player interest in exchange for developer interest. If they haven't come to the realization that the bulk of their player base is appalled that toddlers were not included, then they need to find a new market research team.
How do you think we deserve toddlers? Sorry but I like the game without those annoying little things. MHO though.
You wouldn't have to deal with that life stage. You could age up the toddler in an instant and not have to go through with it. EA promised ALL life stages in TS4, so I wouldn't use the word "deserve", but I'd say they are obligated based on their pre-production promises to provide it. There are plenty of people who are literally waiting for toddlers to enjoy the same. Some couples IRL don't want kids... ever. That's fine, but telling the rest of the world they can't have kids because someone doesn't like those annoying little things comes off a bit narcissistic. What's fair is fair; EA promised all life stages, I expect them to provide them.
This is what I look like IRL. "Bald is beautiful" my husband says. I'm getting used to it and I'm starting to like being bald.
I was out of town today and have just gotten back on and checked the messages. I must say I am shocked. To those who have messaged me saying I have somehow claimed the game should never have toddlers or that things should be removed, let me make this as clear as I can: I NEVER SAID THAT!! Seriously! Does anyone even read the posts before responding?
Again, I am happy without toddlers. I am. Me. Big deal! I am not a guru. I don't work for EA or sleep with anyone from Maxis! My opinion is just that, mine.
I am sure that will upset someone and possibly a few. I'm a grown up. I can take it. I don't mind your opinions and I read them with respect for another player. My post was in no way an attack on anyone or anyone's opinion!
As for those telling me to just use the birthday cake, I say that isn't a valid argument for me. I may not want to spend a lot of time potty training or teaching to walk and talk, but it does affect the child. I am a generational player and I do insist on raising my "kids" to the best of my ability. In TS3 all my toddlers learned all required skills prior to aging and all children and teens achieved As in school. In TS4 my children and teens achieve As and it does have a large affect on their advancement.
That is my game style and I would never shame you if your children didn't achieve As or if in TS3 you chose not to teach your toddlers to talk. I am not shaming anyone for wanting to have those choices in TS4! Being happy with my game as is, and it is clearly the minority opinion, isn't in any way insulting anyone who wants change!
Yet again, I'm not attacking anyone!! I am not saying your points aren't valid and should be ignored. Why then do you feel you have the right to say such things about my opinions?
Here is my two cents concerning the toddler argument they are too big to be in a patch. Some EPs were only so many mega bites big. EPs don't have to be 1GB. Neither do patches. Yesterday's patch was over 500mb big. That's half of 1GB. According to Origin's meter at the bottom of my screen that is how big the patch was. Whether true or not depends of if Origin actually counts accurately how large a file is when downloading it.
I do not expect toddlers to be 2 or 3GBs large. If there was that much to it, I would expect that in a free DLC. But a free DLC isn't going to work and do you know why? Because this means a baby ages into a toddler then a child, and some people's games must be corrected with a patch. And this won't be something you can simply ignore and not download. That means a patch. And if EA is foolish enough to try to sell this life stage in an EP that will kill this game dead, that instant. Because we are just about 200 people who come here everyday to voice our opinions on this game. The larger groups have already left.
That is why we see the same people post here (like me) and not really anybody we don't already know or have at least heard of in the past.
They are already gone. If news came out toddlers would be in an EP you would see many sites some of you are too young to visit be ablaze with a opinions like EA has never read before. It would not be pretty.
So, if you think EA will continue with a game that is failing is sales, and just barely skimming the water, and then try to introduce toddlers in an EP then you don't know anything about EA dropping failing games. Sim City was over the first year. Maxis is shut down (the Maxis who made SC) and there will not ever be another Sim City by Maxis. Maxis Emeryville is gone. And 'that' Maxis had been with EA since Sim Ant and for the last fifteen years and even longer before 'The Sims'.
EA will shut this game down if they don't turn it around and that is something those who don't want toddlers better think about.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
@Cinebar don't forget they finally gave offline sim city before they packed that up.
This isn't *just* about toddlers. It's the principle of it.
If they are able to 'get away with' not giving toddlers what makes people think it won't be their favourite aspect that gets culled next?
And budgets work in that they will look at how little they were able to spend in comparison to the return-so if we all accept less now by the time sims 5 comes around (if it does) those in charge of the budgets will be trying to squeeze further and create further cuts. Because why would they finish a game if the community accepts an unfinished one so readily?!
Here is my two cents concerning the toddler argument they are too big to be in a patch. Some EPs were only so many mega bites big. EPs don't have to be 1GB. Neither do patches. Yesterday's patch was over 500mb big. That's half of 1GB. According to Origin's meter at the bottom of my screen that is how big the patch was. Whether true or not depends of if Origin actually counts accurately how large a file is when downloading it.
I do not expect toddlers to be 2 or 3GBs large. If there was that much to it, I would expect that in a free DLC. But a free DLC isn't going to work and do you know why? Because this means a baby ages into a toddler then a child, and some people's games must be corrected with a patch. And this won't be something you can simply ignore and not download. That means a patch. And if EA is foolish enough to try to sell this life stage in an EP that will kill this game dead, that instant. Because we are just about 200 people who come here everyday to voice our opinions on this game. The larger groups have already left.
That is why we see the same people post here (like me) and not really anybody we don't already know or have at least heard of in the past.
They are already gone. If news came out toddlers would be in an EP you would see many sites some of you are too young to visit be ablaze with a opinions like EA has never read before. It would not be pretty.
So, if you think EA will continue with a game that is failing is sales, and just barely skimming the water, and then try to introduce toddlers in an EP then you don't know anything about EA dropping failing games. Sim City was over the first year. Maxis is shut down (the Maxis who made SC) and there will not ever be another Sim City by Maxis. Maxis Emeryville is gone. And 'that' Maxis had been with EA since Sim Ant and for the last fifteen years and even longer before 'The Sims'.
EA will shut this game down if they don't turn it around and that is something those who don't want toddlers better think about.
Need more "likes" so I can add a few hundred more to this post.
@Cinebar don't forget they finally gave offline sim city before they packed that up.
This isn't *just* about toddlers. It's the principle of it.
If they are able to 'get away with' not giving toddlers what makes people think it won't be their favourite aspect that gets culled next?
And budgets work in that they will look at how little they were able to spend in comparison to the return-so if we all accept less now by the time sims 5 comes around (if it does) those in charge of the budgets will be trying to squeeze further and create further cuts. Because why would they finish a game if the community accepts an unfinished one so readily?!
I can't help think they will not develop The Sims 5 but more like an app for the phone or something else which would have The Sims name on it but it's my opinion this game has ruined the franchise as we knew it. And that's on EA's CEOs wanting everything online and mmo or whatever. Stepping away from a formula that kept them thriving for fifteen years and kept them growing and progressing in life simulators and turning it's genre into something many life simulator players absolutely hate about it, and regressing back to days long since passed, let alone making decision to forget the life simulator player and just re vamp an online game for the single Sim is their downfall imho.
Does that mean it doesn't float, no, but it sure isn't making the money the others did no matter who tries to spin it does.
Throwing family players or generational players a bone like family tree but then not changing course where the game actually turns the corner and goes back to being a game about life, but just telling the culling of their family trees doesn't affect their ability to fill challenges in the game like have ten generations or fifty generations etc. shows me that was just a bone and in no way was it put into the game to turn the corner back to a life simulator. What a farce. It's still an RPG model, and if they aren't willing to know the players actually know the difference (some of us) of it's heart and core, then I don't actually expect they ever add in toddlers, but they can't say that because if they did this forum would go dead in about two minutes. And all leave to go voice their anger somewhere else. It would be over that fast.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Their marketing team who runs the show needs to put one survey out there. Not riddled with riddles and situation surveys. Like one time I took one which asked me some tricky questions (sound familiar? lol) if I played this way or that way would I like this or that to happen then threw in a monkey wrench in mid sentence to determine what they wanted to add instead of what I would want. Get my drift?
So, the survey should say Toddlers, yes or no. End of story. Marketing would be telling the development team get on it now, we need that now.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Someone linked an article in another thread yesterday that included a quote from someone at EA discussing allocation of funds between titanfall and the sims and they said this specifically about the sims.
"The sims is a high-margin product."
high-margin; activities, products, etc. giving a high level of profit compared to the amount of money spent on doing them, producing them, etc.
If you don't understand the definition, it basically means they spent very little on the game in relation to what they're going to get back out of it, or at least what they intend to get back out of it.
Now you can say they won't give it up for free, but to say that they can't is plain ridiculous.
Don't be that guy who defends "they can't make just 59 million, they need to make 60 million."
Someone linked an article in another thread yesterday that included a quote from someone at EA discussing allocation of funds between titanfall and the sims and they said this specifically about the sims.
"The sims is a high-margin product."
high-margin; activities, products, etc. giving a high level of profit compared to the amount of money spent on doing them, producing them, etc.
If you don't understand the definition, it basically means they spent very little on the game in relation to what they're going to get back out of it, or at least what they intend to get back out of it.
Now you can say they won't give it up for free, but to say that they can't is plain ridiculous.
Don't be that guy who defends "they can't make just 59 million, they need to make 60 million."
Someone linked an article in another thread yesterday that included a quote from someone at EA discussing allocation of funds between titanfall and the sims and they said this specifically about the sims.
"The sims is a high-margin product."
high-margin; activities, products, etc. giving a high level of profit compared to the amount of money spent on doing them, producing them, etc.
If you don't understand the definition, it basically means they spent very little on the game in relation to what they're going to get back out of it, or at least what they intend to get back out of it.
Now you can say they won't give it up for free, but to say that they can't is plain ridiculous.
Don't be that guy who defends "they can't make just 59 million, they need to make 60 million."
I don't get it myself... my daughter (grown) and I were both happy no toddlers. We like our games without them. I hope they don't add them in a patch or an EP. I know that isn't a popular opinion but it's ours. I like the way my generations flow now. In TS2 and TS3 I hated the time it took to deal with the toddler phase. It was disproportionate to the other ages for me. Yes, it was realistic, but I had my kids and they are all grown now. I don't want to spend all of my time getting my sims to change diapers and potty training.
I do however agree that it is more likely to come in an EP than a patch. You may get the age group and some very basic hairs/clothes/items in a patch, but the real content will be in a pack. That is just my opinion.
As for deserving and demanding toddlers. They weren't in the base game. If you purchased the base game as is, then you told EA that you were OK with no toddlers. You can say that you were vocal in telling them you expect toddlers later on, but actions speak far louder than words!
LOL, many of us pre-ordered the game. If you recall, EA didn't even allow game reviewers to play it until it was released, so no one knew there weren't toddlers. So those of us who pre-ordered the game were expecting EA to live up to their promise of all life stages. I would say that we should be able to trust them at their word when they say something like that. I've been playing since TS1 was born and have been a loyal follower, so naturally I trusted them to keep to their word and pre-ordered. Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice... well, let's just say I won't ever pre-order an EA game again. Ever.
So based on all the pre-order sales (which was comprised of many long time loyal players), telling people that if they purchased the base game as is, then they told EA they were OK with no toddlers is an invalid argument. Those who didn't pre-order and purchased the base game may not have read the initial cries and outrage and may have just purchased it expecting it to have what all the more recent TS games have had as their base game.
What happened is called bait and switch, slight of hand, etc. Blaming the customers for EA failing to deliver on their word is parochial.
This is what I look like IRL. "Bald is beautiful" my husband says. I'm getting used to it and I'm starting to like being bald.
I don't get it myself... my daughter (grown) and I were both happy no toddlers. We like our games without them. I hope they don't add them in a patch or an EP. I know that isn't a popular opinion but it's ours. I like the way my generations flow now. In TS2 and TS3 I hated the time it took to deal with the toddler phase. It was disproportionate to the other ages for me. Yes, it was realistic, but I had my kids and they are all grown now. I don't want to spend all of my time getting my sims to change diapers and potty training.
I do however agree that it is more likely to come in an EP than a patch. You may get the age group and some very basic hairs/clothes/items in a patch, but the real content will be in a pack. That is just my opinion.
As for deserving and demanding toddlers. They weren't in the base game. If you purchased the base game as is, then you told EA that you were OK with no toddlers. You can say that you were vocal in telling them you expect toddlers later on, but actions speak far louder than words!
LOL, many of us pre-ordered the game. If you recall, EA didn't even allow game reviewers to play it until it was released, so no one knew there weren't toddlers. So those of us who pre-ordered the game were expecting EA to live up to their promise of all life stages. I would say that we should be able to trust them at their word when they say something like that. I've been playing since TS1 was born and have been a loyal follower, so naturally I trusted them to keep to their word and pre-ordered. Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice... well, let's just say I won't ever pre-order an EA game again. Ever.
So based on all the pre-order sales (which was comprised of many long time loyal players), telling people that if they purchased the base game as is, then they told EA they were OK with no toddlers is an invalid argument. Those who didn't pre-order and purchased the base game may not have read the initial cries and outrage and may have just purchased it expecting it to have what all the more recent TS games have had as their base game.
What happened is called bait and switch, slight of hand, etc. Blaming the customers for EA failing to deliver on their word is parochial.
Well said.
The ONLY people responsible for releasing an unfinished base was EA and their team. They gave the green light on that. And yes the review embargo prevented those of us who preordered from knowing the full story on exactly how far the cuts were. Toddlers were the tip of the iceberg.
I'm with you. I learnt a good lesson. Never trust EA with a preorder ever again. As someone who preordered for fifteen years I hope that they are proud of teaching us that.
I'm not an expert, far from it but common sense tells us that toddler intergration within the game is a very delicate process. As I said before, they will need to be put in the game for everyone or no one. Imagine all the bugs it would cause if some had them and some didn't? It would be insane. The only way to put them in everyone's game would be a free patch. The question is, are they going to put time and effort into toddlers when they know they can't make any money from them?
I think the only way they'd do that is if enough people swore off the game and all it's add-ons until they are put back in. Then it would be a case of actively losing money if they didn't. Right now, I doubt that's a big issue because enough people still believe they are coming. The more time that passes without word, the more that hope is lost in fans so they will start losing more and more of us in the coming months.
I think they can make lots of money with toddlers. Imagine one or two GP and SP just for toddlers and/or babies/preteens? With family gameplay too?
Gallery ID: Gaia Puma (Click pic above if you would to download that exact building)
I'm not an expert, far from it but common sense tells us that toddler intergration within the game is a very delicate process. As I said before, they will need to be put in the game for everyone or no one. Imagine all the bugs it would cause if some had them and some didn't? It would be insane. The only way to put them in everyone's game would be a free patch. The question is, are they going to put time and effort into toddlers when they know they can't make any money from them?
I think the only way they'd do that is if enough people swore off the game and all it's add-ons until they are put back in. Then it would be a case of actively losing money if they didn't. Right now, I doubt that's a big issue because enough people still believe they are coming. The more time that passes without word, the more that hope is lost in fans so they will start losing more and more of us in the coming months.
I think they can make lots of money with toddlers. Imagine one or two GP and SP just for toddlers and/or babies/preteens? With family gameplay too?
If they released an EP for toddlers, I would probably purchase it to salvage my love for the game. However, I would be cautious and wait to hear what other people say about it before giving them money again. After all, I'd be afraid they would release toddlers who are tethered to their walkers. LOL Look what they did to babies!
This is what I look like IRL. "Bald is beautiful" my husband says. I'm getting used to it and I'm starting to like being bald.
I'm not an expert, far from it but common sense tells us that toddler intergration within the game is a very delicate process. As I said before, they will need to be put in the game for everyone or no one. Imagine all the bugs it would cause if some had them and some didn't? It would be insane. The only way to put them in everyone's game would be a free patch. The question is, are they going to put time and effort into toddlers when they know they can't make any money from them?
I think the only way they'd do that is if enough people swore off the game and all it's add-ons until they are put back in. Then it would be a case of actively losing money if they didn't. Right now, I doubt that's a big issue because enough people still believe they are coming. The more time that passes without word, the more that hope is lost in fans so they will start losing more and more of us in the coming months.
I think they can make lots of money with toddlers. Imagine one or two GP and SP just for toddlers and/or babies/preteens? With family gameplay too?
If they released an EP for toddlers, I would probably purchase it to salvage my love for the game. However, I would be cautious and wait to hear what other people say about it before giving them money again. After all, I'd be afraid they would release toddlers who are tethered to their walkers. LOL Look what they did to babies!
I wonder, if they really do sell toddlers in an EP will they gain a lot from it? You have people that won't buy them because they don't like toddlers, and don't want to be sold a life stage ... then there's people who would buy it on a 5 dollar sale ...
@drake_mccarty I just wanted to say I really liked your posts and thought they were well written. I think part of it is comparing products to me. Like you have a bag of candies and two of them have your favorite flavor, but the third bag doesn't. All of them are the same price. The for double the amount of money you can add your favorite flavor to that bad. Which bag will a customer choose? They'll go for the bag that has their favorite flavor without having to pay additional costs to get it. It's just business. We deal with what is the most cost effective product even when grocery shopping. So in a sense, the Sims 4 is like the bag without the missing favorite flavor which is family play. I know EA likes to use the excuse that people are going back to the Sims 2 and 3 for nostalgia reasons, but they aren't. The Sims 2 and 3 were just more complete products that catered to the customer's wants out of a Sims game.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
I don't give a rats 🐸🐸🐸🐸 how much work it takes to make toddlers. It might not be written in stone that toddlers absolutely must be in the base game, but removing a big stage in a humans life in a, er, life simulation game, where it's been present as a feature in two previous instalments? Nuh-uh. It's just common sense that your customers expect the sequel to a game to at least match the content of the previous game, though it really should be bigger and better.
So no, I am not going to pat a publisher/dev as big as EA/Maxis on the back saying "You poor thing!" while they grab another £30 from my pocket. They fix the lack of toddlers for free or I drop this game. They have the man power, they have the money, they just need to have the want.
Reading over this before I post, I might sound angry and entitled, but come on. Can you honestly imagine what it would look like if EA freakin' sold toddlers back to us? It's not our fault they weren't already in the base game when any half decent person could tell you they should have been. That was EA/Maxis's decision and I refuse to be punished for it. On their side, think about how much more money grubbing they'd appear to people than they already are. It wouldn't be outright series suicide but be 🐸🐸🐸🐸 if selling us a life stage from over a decade ago wouldn't be a massive hit against them. I know the series would lose even more credibility for me.
I get what you mean OP, and I don't mean to direct my anger towards you. I am fairly furious with EA and Maxis for allowing all this junk to happen and that probably shows in my posts. It is a lot of work and it would take extra effort to get them out in a patch, but as long as I've already shelled out for the base game I do not care. I sound like a jerk but this is entirely on them and any punishment they get relating to an unfinished base game is entirely deserved.
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So I'm not alone!!!
Check your facts. Also, the tech in the Sims 2 was not available during the run of TS1. You must have not started with TS1.
I agree completely. I don't think we deserve any blame for toddlers not being in the sims 4. This was something along with 80 plus other things that was left out and should have been added. EA is to blame for giving us a half finished game. Anyone that has to pay for toddlers in an ep that should have been free to begin with should protest and let EA know they are not going to stand for it.
The customer is never to blame. We don't control anything about the production of the game. It's the job of the development team to 🐸🐸🐸🐸 what their customers want and deliver that to them. Literally, that is their job. The fact we have no toddlers, and we have no word on toddlers mean that they are not delivering what the majority, and yes I say majority, of their customers want.
I'm sure there will be players who do not like the toddler life stage, and are not bothered by it not being included, but I paid full retail price for a AAA title. What I got is not on the same level of quality as the past installments and the teams vision is clouding their judgement of what they think players want. Would adding in toddlers improve the quality of the game? No, but it would improve gameplay for many players. Gameplay is what is most important here, not Pets or Seasons or anything else like that. The game at it's core should offer the player a wide variety of things to do. EA hasn't seemed to notice the terrible gameplay, because none of the people in charge of the game actually play the game. There are plenty of gaming companies that actually strive to make great games that captivate the people they are selling it to. The Sims 4 doesn't do that, and unless they start actually producing meaningful content that players are asking for we are going to continue to see a divided community and backlash when things are added that no one was asking for.
I'm sure the uproar on the forums yesterday is being discussed by the management of Maxis and EA. A team having a vision for a franchise doesn't entitle them to ignore player interest in exchange for developer interest. If they haven't come to the realization that the bulk of their player base is appalled that toddlers were not included, then they need to find a new market research team.
We don't deserve anything. Video games are not a fundamental right, they are not required for life to go on. Businesses aren't required to give players anything specific either, but that is how they make money. So if they ignore what players want, they aren't going to make as much as they would had they given players what they asked for. In this case toddlers, they weren't a separate game addition in either of the 2 base games released in the last 10 years. Now, that's what they inevitably will be if they are added. Bare with me now for this example: Let's say the same team released a seasons EP, which has been a popular EP for the last two installments, but within that EP they included everything except rain. Because it wasn't ready before release. Would you be willing to pay an additional fee for such a feature just because they couldn't get it done in time? Would you be okay if that feature was abandoned all together? This is the problem I have with toddlers. Not the fact we "deserve" them, but the fact that they removed a core feature present in the past two iterations of the franchise, simply because THEY ran out of time.
I never once said "we deserve toddlers". I did say EA should research their customer base and determine what exactly players expect. If they can't deliver what is expected then they will lose business. I'm not going to pay a stylist 25$ to only cut my hair on half of my head, so I will go to another one where I can get better service. The same is true for video games, most are a dime a dozen. Just because the sims doesn't have a competitor atm doesn't mean a year from now it won't. Once it becomes a competitive market, and believe me it will, the winner will be who delivers the better product. Just like that stylist who only cut half of what I wanted, they end up losing out because they didn't provide the same quality of service.
You wouldn't have to deal with that life stage. You could age up the toddler in an instant and not have to go through with it. EA promised ALL life stages in TS4, so I wouldn't use the word "deserve", but I'd say they are obligated based on their pre-production promises to provide it. There are plenty of people who are literally waiting for toddlers to enjoy the same. Some couples IRL don't want kids... ever. That's fine, but telling the rest of the world they can't have kids because someone doesn't like those annoying little things comes off a bit narcissistic. What's fair is fair; EA promised all life stages, I expect them to provide them.
This is what I look like IRL. "Bald is beautiful" my husband says. I'm getting used to it and I'm starting to like being bald.
Again, I am happy without toddlers. I am. Me. Big deal! I am not a guru. I don't work for EA or sleep with anyone from Maxis! My opinion is just that, mine.
I am sure that will upset someone and possibly a few. I'm a grown up. I can take it. I don't mind your opinions and I read them with respect for another player. My post was in no way an attack on anyone or anyone's opinion!
As for those telling me to just use the birthday cake, I say that isn't a valid argument for me. I may not want to spend a lot of time potty training or teaching to walk and talk, but it does affect the child. I am a generational player and I do insist on raising my "kids" to the best of my ability. In TS3 all my toddlers learned all required skills prior to aging and all children and teens achieved As in school. In TS4 my children and teens achieve As and it does have a large affect on their advancement.
That is my game style and I would never shame you if your children didn't achieve As or if in TS3 you chose not to teach your toddlers to talk. I am not shaming anyone for wanting to have those choices in TS4! Being happy with my game as is, and it is clearly the minority opinion, isn't in any way insulting anyone who wants change!
Yet again, I'm not attacking anyone!! I am not saying your points aren't valid and should be ignored. Why then do you feel you have the right to say such things about my opinions?
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I do not expect toddlers to be 2 or 3GBs large. If there was that much to it, I would expect that in a free DLC. But a free DLC isn't going to work and do you know why? Because this means a baby ages into a toddler then a child, and some people's games must be corrected with a patch. And this won't be something you can simply ignore and not download. That means a patch. And if EA is foolish enough to try to sell this life stage in an EP that will kill this game dead, that instant. Because we are just about 200 people who come here everyday to voice our opinions on this game. The larger groups have already left.
That is why we see the same people post here (like me) and not really anybody we don't already know or have at least heard of in the past.
They are already gone. If news came out toddlers would be in an EP you would see many sites some of you are too young to visit be ablaze with a opinions like EA has never read before. It would not be pretty.
So, if you think EA will continue with a game that is failing is sales, and just barely skimming the water, and then try to introduce toddlers in an EP then you don't know anything about EA dropping failing games. Sim City was over the first year. Maxis is shut down (the Maxis who made SC) and there will not ever be another Sim City by Maxis. Maxis Emeryville is gone. And 'that' Maxis had been with EA since Sim Ant and for the last fifteen years and even longer before 'The Sims'.
EA will shut this game down if they don't turn it around and that is something those who don't want toddlers better think about.
This isn't *just* about toddlers. It's the principle of it.
If they are able to 'get away with' not giving toddlers what makes people think it won't be their favourite aspect that gets culled next?
And budgets work in that they will look at how little they were able to spend in comparison to the return-so if we all accept less now by the time sims 5 comes around (if it does) those in charge of the budgets will be trying to squeeze further and create further cuts. Because why would they finish a game if the community accepts an unfinished one so readily?!
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Need more "likes" so I can add a few hundred more to this post.
I can't help think they will not develop The Sims 5 but more like an app for the phone or something else which would have The Sims name on it but it's my opinion this game has ruined the franchise as we knew it. And that's on EA's CEOs wanting everything online and mmo or whatever. Stepping away from a formula that kept them thriving for fifteen years and kept them growing and progressing in life simulators and turning it's genre into something many life simulator players absolutely hate about it, and regressing back to days long since passed, let alone making decision to forget the life simulator player and just re vamp an online game for the single Sim is their downfall imho.
Does that mean it doesn't float, no, but it sure isn't making the money the others did no matter who tries to spin it does.
Throwing family players or generational players a bone like family tree but then not changing course where the game actually turns the corner and goes back to being a game about life, but just telling the culling of their family trees doesn't affect their ability to fill challenges in the game like have ten generations or fifty generations etc. shows me that was just a bone and in no way was it put into the game to turn the corner back to a life simulator. What a farce. It's still an RPG model, and if they aren't willing to know the players actually know the difference (some of us) of it's heart and core, then I don't actually expect they ever add in toddlers, but they can't say that because if they did this forum would go dead in about two minutes. And all leave to go voice their anger somewhere else. It would be over that fast.
So, the survey should say Toddlers, yes or no. End of story. Marketing would be telling the development team get on it now, we need that now.
"The sims is a high-margin product."
high-margin; activities, products, etc. giving a high level of profit compared to the amount of money spent on doing them, producing them, etc.
If you don't understand the definition, it basically means they spent very little on the game in relation to what they're going to get back out of it, or at least what they intend to get back out of it.
Now you can say they won't give it up for free, but to say that they can't is plain ridiculous.
Don't be that guy who defends "they can't make just 59 million, they need to make 60 million."
http://simsvip.com/2014/01/29/ea-trades-off-the-sims-4-for-titanfall/#more-32485
Here. I think EAs biggest issue is they have customers who weren't born yesterday scrutinising them.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Thank you for sparing me someone's source inquiry.
LOL, many of us pre-ordered the game. If you recall, EA didn't even allow game reviewers to play it until it was released, so no one knew there weren't toddlers. So those of us who pre-ordered the game were expecting EA to live up to their promise of all life stages. I would say that we should be able to trust them at their word when they say something like that. I've been playing since TS1 was born and have been a loyal follower, so naturally I trusted them to keep to their word and pre-ordered. Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice... well, let's just say I won't ever pre-order an EA game again. Ever.
So based on all the pre-order sales (which was comprised of many long time loyal players), telling people that if they purchased the base game as is, then they told EA they were OK with no toddlers is an invalid argument. Those who didn't pre-order and purchased the base game may not have read the initial cries and outrage and may have just purchased it expecting it to have what all the more recent TS games have had as their base game.
What happened is called bait and switch, slight of hand, etc. Blaming the customers for EA failing to deliver on their word is parochial.
This is what I look like IRL. "Bald is beautiful" my husband says. I'm getting used to it and I'm starting to like being bald.
Well said.
The ONLY people responsible for releasing an unfinished base was EA and their team. They gave the green light on that. And yes the review embargo prevented those of us who preordered from knowing the full story on exactly how far the cuts were. Toddlers were the tip of the iceberg.
I'm with you. I learnt a good lesson. Never trust EA with a preorder ever again. As someone who preordered for fifteen years I hope that they are proud of teaching us that.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
I think they can make lots of money with toddlers. Imagine one or two GP and SP just for toddlers and/or babies/preteens? With family gameplay too?
Gallery ID: Gaia Puma (Click pic above if you would to download that exact building)
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/789742/the-sims-4-create-a-world-petition-212-signatures-200-signature-celebration/p1
If they released an EP for toddlers, I would probably purchase it to salvage my love for the game. However, I would be cautious and wait to hear what other people say about it before giving them money again. After all, I'd be afraid they would release toddlers who are tethered to their walkers. LOL Look what they did to babies!
This is what I look like IRL. "Bald is beautiful" my husband says. I'm getting used to it and I'm starting to like being bald.
I wonder, if they really do sell toddlers in an EP will they gain a lot from it? You have people that won't buy them because they don't like toddlers, and don't want to be sold a life stage ... then there's people who would buy it on a 5 dollar sale ...
So no, I am not going to pat a publisher/dev as big as EA/Maxis on the back saying "You poor thing!" while they grab another £30 from my pocket. They fix the lack of toddlers for free or I drop this game. They have the man power, they have the money, they just need to have the want.
Reading over this before I post, I might sound angry and entitled, but come on. Can you honestly imagine what it would look like if EA freakin' sold toddlers back to us? It's not our fault they weren't already in the base game when any half decent person could tell you they should have been. That was EA/Maxis's decision and I refuse to be punished for it. On their side, think about how much more money grubbing they'd appear to people than they already are. It wouldn't be outright series suicide but be 🐸🐸🐸🐸 if selling us a life stage from over a decade ago wouldn't be a massive hit against them. I know the series would lose even more credibility for me.
I get what you mean OP, and I don't mean to direct my anger towards you. I am fairly furious with EA and Maxis for allowing all this junk to happen and that probably shows in my posts. It is a lot of work and it would take extra effort to get them out in a patch, but as long as I've already shelled out for the base game I do not care. I sound like a jerk but this is entirely on them and any punishment they get relating to an unfinished base game is entirely deserved.