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Moderators - you have a problem here.
Crackseed
Posts: 5,209 Member
Having moderated boards before, I can understand that there is no such thing as omniscience. Nor can it be easy to completely deter a determined troll.
However, this forum has a serious issue in the form of serial troll stalkers and/or trolls who use incredibly vile methods/images to shock the forum populace.
Is there a reason these trolls take so long to get banned after the initial reports? We had a new one today initially attacking "Sims 3 fans" and then commenting that the responses caused "her" to trigger and cut herself. 4 threads were closed but the account was STILL unbanned.
Why? Is there something more we as fans can do to help you out? Or is there something we shouldn't be doing? We need to have better protection - a troll account should be locked down BEFORE the threads frankly and that's not happening. And more so, given the nature of some of the posts and images being used, can we at least assume you moderators pass this up the chain to be investigated?
I apologize if this topic is perhaps not proper for this area but after finding out that a couple of folks actually ventured to verify some of the troll's taunting posts and finding disturbing content there, it begs the question of why are these accounts allowed to stay loose for so long. It would be great if we could at least get some kind of top down information - we don't expect you to share details of who's behind it, etc as that's simply not for us to know, but we are powerless to stop these people outside of trying to derail/bury their things with nonsensical content (since if the thread is ignored, they will keep bumping it on their own) and even understanding why accounts are left untouched for awhile might at least shed some light on the situation.
Anyway, I (and I'm sure many here) do appreciate that you've upped your game in many ways, but I think the biggest issue is still a problem and causing unnecessary trauma to your fanbase who should be protected from having to contend with that on a GAMING forum.
However, this forum has a serious issue in the form of serial troll stalkers and/or trolls who use incredibly vile methods/images to shock the forum populace.
Is there a reason these trolls take so long to get banned after the initial reports? We had a new one today initially attacking "Sims 3 fans" and then commenting that the responses caused "her" to trigger and cut herself. 4 threads were closed but the account was STILL unbanned.
Why? Is there something more we as fans can do to help you out? Or is there something we shouldn't be doing? We need to have better protection - a troll account should be locked down BEFORE the threads frankly and that's not happening. And more so, given the nature of some of the posts and images being used, can we at least assume you moderators pass this up the chain to be investigated?
I apologize if this topic is perhaps not proper for this area but after finding out that a couple of folks actually ventured to verify some of the troll's taunting posts and finding disturbing content there, it begs the question of why are these accounts allowed to stay loose for so long. It would be great if we could at least get some kind of top down information - we don't expect you to share details of who's behind it, etc as that's simply not for us to know, but we are powerless to stop these people outside of trying to derail/bury their things with nonsensical content (since if the thread is ignored, they will keep bumping it on their own) and even understanding why accounts are left untouched for awhile might at least shed some light on the situation.
Anyway, I (and I'm sure many here) do appreciate that you've upped your game in many ways, but I think the biggest issue is still a problem and causing unnecessary trauma to your fanbase who should be protected from having to contend with that on a GAMING forum.
"My spirit animal can beat up your spirit animal"
~ Origin ID: DaCrackseed ~
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Comments
I don't know what goes on behind the scenes but moderators from EA did say in the guru talk thread that their net was down to day. That was perfect time for that troll to take advantage of an unsupervised board which is why i think the response time took so long. It seemed like this methods was outside their control.
Equally these people target times of the day where they know moderation is not on or not working.
I think we as simmers can help by one not responding to these people but hitting the report button.
When we respond even if negative we've shown to them they have center stage and we fuel their goal to get attention. It than starts to esculate to get more attention. For some individuals who aren't healthy that includes using any methods neccessary to do so.
Now the account may not have been banned right away because guru's could have been contacting authorities and following procedure to calm the individual down i don't know, it seemed to me when they finally got access back to the net they tried to get things under control. I don't actually know i am just taking a guess.
Again i like to point people back to my thread. Right now we have a forum that says it is okay to reward that kind of behavior. that person wanted to be congratulated and get attention for bashing other people. People hitting the like button on those posts show this to a new user that to get popular here you have to misbehave etc.
Please than show support for my thread on all the methods i listed to help urge forum change.
1. If they don't already, mods should have a list of resources like prevention hotlines and other places for anyone who threatens self-harm to get help.
2. Since this isn't the first time, maybe it's a good idea to have a note in the forum rules that people should take suicide threats seriously and not taunt the user. It only adds fuel to the fire. Instead, they should report the post using the flag button or PM a moderator or @SimGuruBChick and leave it alone.
Not everyone will listen, but maybe some would and that would cut down on the feeling that 'everyone' is ganging up or against a troubled user. (Depending on how things went today or in the past since there have been others, perhaps a note not to counsel distressed users might also be included. Leave it to the professionals and those with training.)
3. The moderators here and/or other members who run their own forums may want to read the advice given by a professional moderator/administrator in the Vanilla Blog on suicide threats and how to handle them.
Thank you for this very thoughtful and helpful post. I agree that there are topics that absolutely should be against forum rules and need to be dealt with immediately. And, it's also true that someone posting about the topics listed in the OP are possibly written by someone who is trolling and trying to disrupt and cause problems. But, it's also true that there could be someone who is truly in pain and truly in trouble and could use the resources for help. I know this is a game forum. I know that it isn't the responsibility of a game forum to deal with various issues that have nothing to do with the game but I think a list of a few resources could end up helping someone who is in pain and in need of help.
I agree. And, since we're not all professional psychologists and psychiatrists, it would be foolish for us to assume that we can tell the insincere troll posts from the really troubled users.
It's also my personal opinion that anyone who does something like this could benefit from getting some help in some area of his or her life, whether he or she is serious about the self-harm threat or not. It is an extremely negative means of getting attention and something is wrong enough to make him or her do that. So, it's good to try to point them in the direction of real help.
We have endured a wide array of awful things here and while I would feel absolutely awful if at the end of the day this WAS someone needing help, I have to question the validity of "needing help" and creating a new account on a game forum, trolling a subset of fans and THEN immediately going for the "I'm going to start cutting myself!" angle. And it's not as if this is something new or unique in the scheme of trolls that attack these boards.
At the end of the day, I want to hope that if it IS someone in help, they find it - but this isn't the place to seek it, much less using the types of tactics there were employed today.
If the mods were legitimately handicapped by connectivity problems, then I am very sorry for doubting their speed/response times there - if not however, it's still an area that needs improvement.
We come here to discuss games/have some silly moments among like-minded people, whether we agree or disagree at the end of the day. Having to wade through sexually depraved images, repeated spam topics and people trying to emotionally batter folks here is not what any of us signed up for.
As far as a faster mod response and a better way of handling this, I agree. I posted extensively about the earlier troll storms and the need to address it better earlier. And, honestly, there is less of that going on, but they could still stand to improve how these issues are handled.
here's how i saw today. it was an acct that was classified as new because of the current rules here but it was an acct that was created in the old forum. this person just wasnt very active. my take probably like many accts more lurking then posting.
for sure the statements posted today could have been fabricated but sadly it equally could have been all real based on the graphic pix on twitter.
something else that is just a hunch, that the threads may have been closed by the system and not a mod. or perhaps it was CE closing threads. and this could account for why the threads were locked but the acct was still able to be active.
@greenXen your link re how to deal with suicide threats is very helpful and a good spring board to ask gurus if its possible to have the option something like in the old forum to merely suspend an acct. i know vanilla has the option to quarantine an acct's activity for individual accts. i just wonder if there is a way during off hours or whenever i guess if a certain reasonable, not too high or to low, number of people report a certain type of offense the system automatically temporarily disables all forum privileges for the acct until reviewed by simstaff or guru.
another thing made clear to me today, all those that are trolling are in pain and the shorter amount of time they can at anytime here be disruptive is as beneficial to them as it is to this community.
I'm not above saying "Sorry" when I'm wrong so, again - as much as my gut says one thing, the reality is if I was wrong, it could have been quite detrimental.
The point still stands though in that we need a quicker turn-around and lockdown. Whether it's a legitimate cry for help or a troll going hogwild on us, account lockdown should be first so there's no recurring threads coming out. Every thread just adds fuel to the fire and even if we're trying to stand hands off to help the mods, SOMEONE is going to bite and go in there or look at whatever they are posting
Is this true? See, this is kind of what I want to find out by making this post.
If there are new measures in place that auto-suppress harmful threads then reporting becomes far more effective. I've been lowkey on these boards for a few months but I haven't seen anywhere that details some of the anti-troll features available, which would be helpful!
Before I left we literally had to try and derail/blast a thread off topic till the mods got to it because there was no other way to keep the troll from inundating multiple threads, etc with their filth.
Hell the ignore feature broke the way the forum looked and we were limited to 5 ignores. Has that been upped?
If that tactic is going the way of the dinosaur because there's smarter rules in place, it would be great to know this so I don't feel like I'm making a pest out of myself xD
Aww, Crack, it takes a big man to apologize.
Stopping the account from posting more before thread clean up is not a bad idea. I did see this done at least once with an adult pic spammer. It was clearly a Guru doing it though and I'm not sure if the obstacle there mightn't be that all the mods can delete threads, but only Gurus or a few mods can block accounts.
Yeah, not knowing the hierarchy and who has ban rights makes this a tougher thing to debate, but locking down the account to me should always be the first tactic, then you clean up their mess after versus now, threads are closed while the account is untouched for longer and you just get this chain reaction.
When it's harmless/dumb trolls and we batter it down with silly things till it vanishes, this isn't such a big deal. But situations like today or the adult pic crud, that's rough and it damages the equilibrium of the forums, which is sad because this is a place to unwind and talk.
Edit: And, yes, I agree with your last post.
Yeah it is fixed - I've got a couple people on there and it works QUITE well now. Though it's always funny that if a person on ignore makes a thread, you can still see THAT post or if they are quoted haha
5000 limit? Well then >.> *preps squelch gun*
exactly! im just hoping there is way we can add it for super big stuff that involves suspending the acct vs. hiding posting
Pretty much - back when the ignore list was 5, you couldn't afford to just flip the switch on every troll account that showed up. Now, if it's 5k? Hahahaha.
*stuffs ALL the trolls in the derp-a-derp bag*
rare for sure and you said it best when you said to me that we are not responsible for this person's action. today was a shocking and different and you were merely trying to make a bad situation less bad while we waited for the mods to kick in a ban, what none of us were expecting it turning into potentially a bigger darker situation.
again my take away the forum's security has improved but it still needs more tweaking to keep us all safe.
That and/or requiring registering of a game to access certain forum sections (have a newbie/question area for people on the fence, etc)
At least could we have a "Debating" area for those who keep boring most of us about the merits/demerits of versions of the games.
Simmers have to remember that some of the people using this forum are properly entitled to but are still very young and impressionable.
Just wanted to drop in here to say a couple of things. First of all, the situation yesterday with that one poster talking self-harm was picked up very quickly and escalated up the reporting chain to ensure proper investigation and action by the appropriate authorities. What did not help the situation was several posters choosing to engage with the OP and aggravating the situation. We will be amending the Forum Rules to cover this kind of situation. The advice here is always to report the post. Don't engage. Assume the threat is real and report.
With regard to the way the forums are moderated, well, all I can say this is one of the most active forums I have ever been on. We have a lively and passionate community. We do rely on this community to self-moderate to a certain extent. The official moderators are impartial. We are the Switzerland in this context. We enforce the rules, we take action with rule-breakers and we facilitate peace accords. That's not an easy job. We appreciate the support and feedback we get from this community.
Thank you.
Infinite Diversity, Infinite Combinations
Thanks to 06bon06 for my lovely new signature pic