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Lets Discuss the Emotions, Reactions, and Wishes.
kimjo313
Posts: 3,865 Member
From what I have observed, I think the emotions, wishes and reactions in the game need some fine tuning. So I thought we could share our observations, likes and dislikes about them here in hopes someone will take notice.
For example;
When my criminal/mean/evil sim needs to have 2 sims hate him, I took him out into the neighborhood and started a mean interaction with a random npc. I did nasty interaction, one after another until the fight option popped up. They fought , my sim won, they were both in the red angry mood. My sim declared him an enemy. My sim then popped up the wish to do a couple of more nasty actions and I proceeded to que them up, but I had to keep cancelling the chat option. Really? They are enemies, they just fought and I have to work extra hard to stop them from chatting friendly? Something is not right there. Needs some work.
Then there is the parental sim. They want to hug the child sim constantly. When they are eating, sleeping, doing homework, showering, using the bathroom, playing on the jungle gym. All they want to do is hug! But when the child sim achieves a new skill, like leveled up in the motor skill or moved up a level at school, where is Mom and Dad with the hug or congratulations? Watching TV. WHY DOES IT SEEM THERE IS SUCH A DISCONNECT OF FAMILIAL PRIDE IN THIS GAME? There never seems to be any wishes by the parents for the children to do well in school or to level up in a skill or anything like that? The relationship between sims seems to be very superficial and very self oriented.
Then there is the random wishes. Like my painter sim. Why does she keep popping up wishes to play an instrument or plant something? It seems that all the creative choices are lumped into one, and any sim with it will wish to do all of them instead of the one their life goal is set up for? Same thing for my gardener sim. Why does he want to purchase/play and instrument or paint a picture? Far too random in their wishes.
And the emotions themselves are so over the top and schizophrenic. They bounce from one emotion to the next far to rapid to be normal. Not using things like romantic tv or steamy shower does not seem to make a difference as my focused sim switches to flirty on a dime. Hard to send them to work with the correct emotion unless you lock them away by themselves until it is time to leave. And even that is not guarantee.
And then there is the often mentioned lack of emotion to life events like birth, death, fighting ect.
So in my opinion, these things definitely need some fine tuning.
What have you observed? Positive or negative? What do you think works well? What do you think needs to be altered and how?
kim![:\](https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
For example;
When my criminal/mean/evil sim needs to have 2 sims hate him, I took him out into the neighborhood and started a mean interaction with a random npc. I did nasty interaction, one after another until the fight option popped up. They fought , my sim won, they were both in the red angry mood. My sim declared him an enemy. My sim then popped up the wish to do a couple of more nasty actions and I proceeded to que them up, but I had to keep cancelling the chat option. Really? They are enemies, they just fought and I have to work extra hard to stop them from chatting friendly? Something is not right there. Needs some work.
Then there is the parental sim. They want to hug the child sim constantly. When they are eating, sleeping, doing homework, showering, using the bathroom, playing on the jungle gym. All they want to do is hug! But when the child sim achieves a new skill, like leveled up in the motor skill or moved up a level at school, where is Mom and Dad with the hug or congratulations? Watching TV. WHY DOES IT SEEM THERE IS SUCH A DISCONNECT OF FAMILIAL PRIDE IN THIS GAME? There never seems to be any wishes by the parents for the children to do well in school or to level up in a skill or anything like that? The relationship between sims seems to be very superficial and very self oriented.
Then there is the random wishes. Like my painter sim. Why does she keep popping up wishes to play an instrument or plant something? It seems that all the creative choices are lumped into one, and any sim with it will wish to do all of them instead of the one their life goal is set up for? Same thing for my gardener sim. Why does he want to purchase/play and instrument or paint a picture? Far too random in their wishes.
And the emotions themselves are so over the top and schizophrenic. They bounce from one emotion to the next far to rapid to be normal. Not using things like romantic tv or steamy shower does not seem to make a difference as my focused sim switches to flirty on a dime. Hard to send them to work with the correct emotion unless you lock them away by themselves until it is time to leave. And even that is not guarantee.
And then there is the often mentioned lack of emotion to life events like birth, death, fighting ect.
So in my opinion, these things definitely need some fine tuning.
What have you observed? Positive or negative? What do you think works well? What do you think needs to be altered and how?
kim
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln
Abraham Lincoln
36
Comments
My family orientated sim autonomously went to his kids bedroom and destroyed the dolls house. What parent would do that to their kid especially given that trait?!
I feel like the sims 4 is too much grinding to manipulate your sims into certain moods. I want to be the boss of that-not be forced to do that! Plus the emotions bounce all over the place and that tone to represent the changes is so annoying!
Also my sims are totally oblivious. Soul mate husband and wife-she's pregnant with his baby and they had a child already. He dropped dead and neither the wife or the son batted an eyelid. It broke my heart. This is a day one bug, it should have been fixed by now because it's integral to the main selling point of the next generation sims game.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
As you know, I have been fiddling around with TS4 looking at some of the reasons I can not enjoy the game. One of the big issues is the selfishness of the sims themselves. It is all about them and no one else. A man alone attitude. For a family player this type of attitude is very hard to play with.
kim
Abraham Lincoln
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
That's so sad.
If you have to many objects that enhance emotion they will become bouncy. Otherwise they tend to stay rather steady in my experience.
Sooo, you never seen the father becoming frantic when he realize a baby is on it's way? I have actually. I also had a sim become terrible sad when her soul mate died, so I suspect the strength of the feelings are very important in case of death.
I had soul mates/best friends so their relationship was a strong one. He died in the hallway just outside the archway of the room his "soul mate was in", she did not blink an eye. A neighbor who was visiting that they had just started to get to know and barely had a sliver of green in their relationship bar sobbed his eyes out. She walked right by him on the way to the den for a book with no reaction!There is something wrong with the coding if your soul mate in the next room can not grieve for their spouse or even notice he is gone. I think this type of lack of reaction needs to be looked into. You have a grieving sim and I have a cold fish? What factors make the situation so different? I would like to see more continuity when it comes to life event reactions.
And yes I have seen the father do the squaty frenzied having a baby thing when the spouse goes into labor, but that is it. As the labor progresses and the baby is born there is no reaction by the father. There is no lets go see the baby, no joyful mood. I really think it is lacking also. I think this action or lack of reaction needs to be looked into also.I think there is a definite lack of depth to the sims emotions.
And yes I have discovered that items with the emotional enhancement and have factored that in when setting up the rooms/houses for the sims I am playing at the time in order to maximize the emotion each one needs to fulfill personal or work requirements. They are still all over the board sometimes. I would just like to see some depth and stability with reasonable reactions to life moments and situations.
kim
Abraham Lincoln
And yes, the reactions to death and cheating need a lot of work. And yes, in general, the emotions need to be more something that flows from the Sims themselves and less from the environment or the player's manipulating them.
And Sims should notice other Sims emotional states and react accordingly based on the relationship between them and the reacting Sims' own traits.
Exactly. The emotions like with my evil mean sim seems to be forced rather than a natural state. based on their traits and life events. How can a sim who just fought with another and declared them an enemy want to have a friendly chat with them during the whole process? How can a soul mate not notice or care their mate just passed on? The emotions seem so superficial.
I hope this is something that will be addressed somewhere along the way as it really makes game play for me very fake and shallow.
kim
Abraham Lincoln
Yes again The Sims Studio went a little over board with the emotions and whims. Last I played, I played Don L, being noncommittal he is a real challenge. I managed to get him hook up with Babs and they in turn got married. he was experiencing the 2 Tense moods from both being married and working. This is fine but it went from occasionally to twice a day with both Tense moodlets. He was Tense 90% of the day with them being 4 hrs each. I would get him out of one and start to romance Babs then bang the other Tense would start up. It was so frustrating. The whims are just as flighty as the emotions just when you are getting ready to do one of the emotional whims both the emotion and whim change like quicksilver!
They do need to tune the emotions. The emotions are either bouncing like a ball gone wild or lasting for 4 hours which in my honest opinion is to long. While I do like what they tried to do, I believe the emotions of the previous games was better. They didn't bounce around and changed naturally with whatever situation was going on.
Less time management and more tuning is much needed with this game. I love the multitasking, but again overboard. Sims will tuck their plate in their,,,um,,,,and run off to hug/kiss someone. While I love the autonomous interactions, eating is so frustrating to begin with only to have them take even longer running around the house hugging/talking/kissing someone. I so wish they had returned the serve family meal and they all sat down to eat together form TS2. It would have eliminated allot of the jump and run with their food issues.
This also happened to me. I was heartbroken as she was my favourite sim who had close relationships with ALL her family. Her husband was in the same room (their relationship bar high) when she died and he didn't even register it. I even got him to plead with the grim but nothing came up.
It doesn't happen all the time but it does happen and it is a shame that it still does. as yes, this has been an issue since release. sometimes I wonder if the gurus know how attached you can actually get to a sim and to see that sim die around its family and none of them even blinking an eyelid can be extremely disheartening.
Sometimes their moods don't even make sense and I actually ignore their thought bubble actions as I see them as boring with no real gain.
I also would much prefer the parent sim to hug when their child completes something or gains a skill. More family type interactions between parent and child is needed badly. Although they have more emotions that TS3 sims they still have a long way to go for this day and age. I would like my sims to be more aware of the sims around them. I don't mean going up to conversations and joining in... I would love to see a wave or a hello as they pass by. Have certain objects and interactions that trigger another sim to take notice.
The first thing that pops into my head for emotion overload is the uncomfortable mood. The Sims get way too upset over a dirty plate or those annoyong piles of dirt that show up after repairs. One of my families popped a dish somewhere it shouldn't have been and I couldn't find it, I ended up moving them out and then back in. I rarely bother with the statistics page because I think the things that are tracked are silly and uninteresting and quite frankly embarrassing in some cases, but when I looked at the mom's stats, she had been "uncomfortable" more times than anything else by a long shot because when she had walked through the living room area she would flip flop every time for days. I wanted to slap them, honestly. And they act so overdramatic about it, too, with the sound effects when emotions change and the twisted up faces they make and the slouchy walks. It's too much for a silly plate. I mean really, if that's your biggest issue in life, what is there to pout about? And yet they do.
The sound effects are another thing. They sound very generic to me, I could never quite get a handle on which sound was linked to which emotion, which is rather odd for me since I've been playing music most of my life and that would usually be the first thing I'd pick up. Some of the changes actually sound negative when they shouldn't, I will try to check out which ones specifically later on. But the result was, when I would play a family of 4 or 5 I would often hear a sad sounding noise and be looking around to see what had gone wrong, only to find that someone had switched moods and not some impending crisis. I find the sound effects to be generally disruptive and feel there should be a way to turn them off. It seems pretty strange in a game obviously designed to revolve around a single Sim - why do you need loud reminders that your Sim is switching moods every three seconds if there is only one in your household? They would be selected all the time and therefore you could clearly see the colors changing, along with their facial contortions, on the giant UI (since there's no way to resize it.)
I also think the "flirty" mood needs major adjustment. Romance in this game in general need a lot of tuning - one of my founder Sims is a romantic artsy type but I intended for her to be romantic à la "hopeless romantic," as in totally in love with her husband. They were meant to be starving artist types, but madly in love, oh the cliché - but she just ended up acting like a little tramp. Love in this game doesn't seem to be anything more than lust, in reality. And then that one fateful day, when he was out gardening and the random townie was jogging by in a flirty mood, and stopped Mr. Starving Artist for a quick flirt - um what - and his wife had no reaction. She just stood there smiling and pregnant. (It was a fateful day for me, not for my Sims... that was the first time I put the game down in disgust.)
Another thing I've noticed generally is that my Sims tend to act the same, all the time. Yeah, they have their slouchy walks and their goofy expressions, but their actions don't change a whole lot. One of my parent Sims, who had no destructive traits, wouldn't quit smashing the doll house no matter what her mood was. I had to laugh when she did it while "inspired," but that was the one and only time I found it at all amusing. You would think that being uncomfortable might cause them to clean autonomously or that they might do something creative when inspired, and of course, sometimes the whims reflect their moods. But I'm just as likely to find my focused teenager trolling teh forums as I am to find him reading or playing chess. They all seem to gravitate toward the same activities regardless of their personalities or moods (though they did sometimes "cry it out" without my say so). Really the emotions seem to have more to do with skill building and novelty than anything - flirty cookies, confident paintings.... angry poops? In short, they feel shallow. In addition, my artsy Sim behaves the same way as my mischevious Sim who behaves the same way as my frat boy Sim. They get different random trait related emotions that pop up, but hanging out around town, I can't distinguish traits based on Sim behavior no matter how much time I spend with other Sims. They all act very generic. It's a shame, because that's something that could have been done so well, and with the emotions being so overwhelming, you would think they would actually behave differently with different traits (especially since there are only 3!) This is a game that seems to revolve around exaggeration and stereotype, so why doesn't my mean Sim behave any differently from my family oriented Sim when left to their own devices? I gave them those traits because I had stories in mind for them, which sadly never seem to play out.
And on the note of emotions and reactions, In both 2 and 3, I was surprised by my Sim doing things that showed very clearly how they felt. Just the other day in 3, my Sim was at a party and her friend's partner flirted with someone. She got the "witnessed betrayal" moodlet and went to try to console her friend on her own. People say that the Sims seemed lifeless in 3, but I think it was just more subtle, and I much prefer subtle to HELLO CONSTANTLY IN YOUR FACE CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? OH, YOU MUTED THE ANNOYING NOISES BUT I AM STILL DOMINATING THE COLORS OF YOUR UI. Besides which, a lot of the reactions in 2 and 3 and many of the moodlets in 3 were quite funny, and others were heartwarming or sad. They made me feel things... other than annoyed/frustrated
I've lurked here for a very long time, and I have seen a lot of pictures and stories about Sims in 4 actually reacting appropriately. So my question is, why do some Sims react while others don't? Is there a broken mechanic? Are some emotions just so easily interfered with that they don't notice death? I think the thought bubbles actually contributed a lot here, with 2 and 3, because you'd see someone thinking about their dead or moved out spouse, or about their kids, or whatever... in 2, if they were angry with someine, they'd fume, if they were sad, they'd cry a little every now and then, thinking about what happened. And they *all* did it, as far as I've seen. I'm sure that's part of why the sims in 4 just feel so empty to me. I find myself reading other people's Sims stories instead of wanting to play my own game, because the stories feel more alive than the gameplay itself.
@Terrylin
This! It seems that so much time was spent developing the emotions, that the reactions and consequences were not as developed. Sims do not seem to autonomously react to most emotions. With the exception of the embarrassed or sad emotions. They will, all on their own go crawl in bed to cry it out. But for the most part, the sim may have the emotion but there does not seem to be an action for them to autonomously deal with the emotion. And yes they seem to swing very quickly from one to another whether the emotion seems to make sense or not.They will get wishes to do things that may correspond to the emotion they have, but you have to direct them to do it.
Like my mean/evil sim. He may be feeling angry and want to be mean to someone but unless i chose the action for him. He does nothing. He does not try to scare someone or call them a llama or what ever.
The one thing they all seem coded to do no matter what their emotion may be.......is chat. Chat chat chat and chat some more.
kim
Abraham Lincoln
@Shearsy
With out a doubt!! Hug and chat seem to be the only interactions they do autonomously. Parents never seem to want to do more than that with their child. But as there are not a whole lot of choices for interactions other than verbal, what could we expect. Were is the play red hands or dance on feet. Things my sims prior to TS4 would seek out their children to do.
Yes they have emotions, but they seem to be surface and shallow and they do not seem to be able to react/act upon those emotions without being told to do them.
kim
Abraham Lincoln
I like the concept but it could have been done less dramatically. They made it in your face to much which in turn made it unrealistic.
My child sim came home bored. When she walked into the house she was instantly happy, move through the room nd was bored again. Why? She was no long at school, she was home with all kinds of things to do, But the bored is there for 4 hours.
I preferred the previous games emotions where they reacted to their environment. If it was death they reacted regardless of whether they knew the sim or not, they reacted. Same with a birth, weather etc,,, they reacted to the world around them in a natural way. Not so much in TS$4. They have to big a push on certain things and not enough natural actions IMHO!
Wow, awesome post! I was not sure where to start to respond.
The act over dramatic, but that is as far as it goes. They almost never do anything autonomous to correct or change the mood. Like the uncomfortable from the dirty plate. My prior sims would clean up the dirty plate. Not so in TS4. I have had sims sit down to the table and eat with a green fly ridden plate next to them, finish eating and clear the plate they were using or even better leave that one and walk away. Were is the response to the emotions?
Yeah, not impressed much her either. A committed relationship as soulmates and all they ever want to do is chat, kiss or who hoo. And yep, doesnt even have to have the flirty trait but if a flirty sim joins them for a conversation first thing ya know they are flirty too. Why? Most often they just met the new sim. Once again very shallow.
Exactly. If they have the creative trait, they all want to paint, grow plant, play an instrument etc. Does not seem to matter what their life time wish is. My painter sim may throw up a want to paint but it is right next to the want to grow a plant and play an instrument. One size fits all. They all respond the same way to things no matter what their traits are. A one size fits all kind of response. Where is the difference you would expect from sims with directly different traits? There is none. This really needs some tweaking!
The one size reaction no matter the traits of the sims is one of the reasons I become so bored with the game. There is no surprises. No spontaneity. If you have seen your family sim do it than your mean sim does it the same way.
Definitely need more definitive reactions based more on the sims traits and not the emotion itself!
kim
Abraham Lincoln
Hey @Terrylin
I highlighted what you said that fits so perfect with what i think. TS4 sims beyond the surface emotions are shallow. Like I said above, they seem to have concentrated on the emotions themselves but not the reactions or consequences. You have the sad emotion, well you have it for 4 hours. So yeah go cry but it will not help much. And do not watch a comedy to make yourself feel better. Or dont talk to someone or play with someone to make your self happy. Its like they are not smart enough to fix the issues like in other sim games.
And as for reacting to the environment, did you know that they do not react at all to no wall coverings and no lights. Nothing. Not a bit of discomfort or anything. So much for more intuitive. I would say they definitely need to tune the reactions.
kim
Abraham Lincoln
Kinda off topic but another thing that gets me, I haven't seen anyone mention it, is the flashy accomplishment and music that comes onscreen.
I hate those things. I do not need to be notified about something happening right in front of me. And I hate the constant chiming for each fluctuating mood change. Think of all that was sacrificed for the pleasure of schizophrenic moods with annoying music attached.
kim
Abraham Lincoln
Like the romantic trait just being another word for lust.
What do you guys think of the addition of the likes and dislikes like TS2? Maybe only being attracted to black hair and make up would aromatically cancel the "urge" to flirt with a blond without make up?
I would love to have likes and dislikes and have them actually mean something. Unlike the traits we have which really do not seem to influence the sims reaction to other sims and situations. For example my mean sim would have more of a reason to be nasty to a cheerful sim if he disliked cheerful sims. As it is now they do not seem to care. The traits do not seem to matter much as the evil/mean sim treats the cheerful sim the same way he treats everyone else.
kim
Abraham Lincoln
Yes, I was expecting something rather different from the way it was advertised. Before the game release, they were floating as part of the appeal:
But, I don't see how this was implemented at all. Sims don't seem to react to many things they should, and I haven't seen any long-lasting or lifetime emotional effects of any events. I really thought that if this was a big selling point of the game, and it was advertised that way, that they would have a more sophisticated emotions system than they have.
I would very much like to see the game more balanced in this regard. It doesn't feel like something that was tested and tuned very much pre-release.
IMHO they got just about everything right in TS2. I loved the way it played and the way the emotions functioned. The LW and being able to add a second one also. It was a well planned and executed game. They should have used more of what was done rather than try to do something and only getting it to work half way.
I really like the way the likes/dislike worked. They were more realistic as in some people are not attracted to brown hair while other don't like makeup etc... It made for a sim with better defined tastes and some interesting gameplay also!