It's kind of funny that this game actually managed to bring me back to sims. I was a serial collector at The Sims 2 stage (even though I had vanilla The Sims 1), I wasn't too hot on The Sims 3. I experienced various issues with installing and running the game and ran into a lot of bugs. The lack of anti-aliasing also put me off as I was seeing jagged courners everywhere. I eventually ended up buying 5 expansion packs at the end of its lifetime and that's it. However for this one, however illogical, I want to stat up my collection again. I want to buy the majority of stuff and expansion packs for it, as long as its in a reasonable amount and actually provides enough content (like for example I didn't find Digital Deluxe worth it, as all it is, is a hat, a hot dog costume, a lamp and a bar).
You aren't alone, my friend I thought I was over the Sims franchise with the third iteration. I was content to just play TS2 until I turned grey and ignored the TS3 communities and the official sims site. Then TS4 was announced and I fell in love with the sims all over again. I do think the base game has a lot of issues, but at the same time I think this game has so much potential to be awesome. It's just weird that EA says they will give the fans what they want and it's obvious we want so many extremes that cancel each other out like the TS3 trait system :disagree:
I think they'd have to daft to think that more people want dinosaurs and mermaids over family trees and proper life stages.
They've done their marketing research, I'm sure they'll cater to whoever will be most likely to buy it. I'm sure they'd be looking at the sales and popularity of Sims 3 stuff, and going from there. At least I hope so!
Hmm... but some of those same fans complained vociferously about the tedious game play with toddlers... assuming that they are not patched in and -come with an EP, would this be for the same reason almost no supernatural states shipped with the game, i.e.,toddlers are now considered to be a feature and should be optional for all players?
I thought the toddler content was the top selling stuff in the store.
When EA came out with TS4's non-standard careers, fans (like me) screamed "We want NORMAL careers", and so EA is patching them in. Now with a patch only days/weeks away I've been reading a lot of "Now give us mermaids, dinosaurs, elves, etc." alongside fan posts (like mine) "Give us toddlers, realistic life stages, family trees, etc."
So what if the whole marketing campaign and game itself are just a compromise between two extremes? And if so, then how will this affect the don't you dare, but hurry up and do it DLC? Would we get a weird compromise with that as well?
And who is the dominant fan base anyway?
Interesting question. Some of the things I'm seeing in TS4 and am still deciding if I like is stuff, I realize, I was asking for way back in TS2! I think TS3 got kinda glitchy and crashy (for old, big saved games anyway) cuz it tried to be all things to all Simmers. I liked it, a lot, but I never loved it like TS2.
I think with TS3 they were kinda trying to get people to give up multigenerational, multi-year Saved Games and just start a new game every time a new EP came out. I think with TS4 they may be trying to do the same thing, but maybe they're doing the opposite and working to give us more of a TS2 experience. I'm rooting for the latter.
Either way, we'll make all kinds of competing demands and they'll work with some of them.
I don't believe so. I believe they had an idea of what the sims 4 was going to be-they said all life states etc etc. but then I think something went wrong-I tend to believe the online idea was what that was, coupled with cuts in the budget mid production. That made it impossible to finish the game in time because they didn't have enough staff or remaining budget to do so effectively.
I believe they were forced into cuts and that's why teens-elders are the same height-cheaper and quicker to create because they share the same movements etc, and why babies got stuck to the bassinet and toddlers weren't implemented. They were still working on the game to the last possible moment trying to cram as much as possible in but they were set up to fail with the limited resources.
I think it's why even small but significant items like dishwashers weren't in the base either.
I've seen modders mention files which hint at toddlers so hopefully they were working on them and prioritise finishing the base before we start getting a bunch of dlc/eps with their assorted inevitable bugs attached.
People bought into the game believing that the base would be much more stable. For some, that's the case, but for others there have been a proliferation of assorted bugs, game breaking down to minor irritants so many felt that claim wasn't quite accurate.
I don't believe people are in a 'now, now, now' mindset at all. I think people just feel the need to be assured that the most pressing issues will be addressed and that the unfinished base will be improved before we are asked to shell out on further content. Many people feel they fell into a trap of doing that in 3 and they intend to be a lot more savvy with their purchases this time round.
In that case this franchise would be in serious trouble OP.
It would imply the creators lack a vision of their own.
When they jump into every whim the fanbase has this is going to be disaster.
Because it doesn't matter at all who is 'the dominant fanbase'.
I can't help remembering that famous quote from Henry Ford (American industrialist, founder of the Ford Motor Company and sponsor of the development of the assembly line technique of mass production). “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
Actually probably not. They like twitter and facebook and all the social media forums where they would get feedback from the youthful simmers. Those who would love the single party life aspect, the rpg format and the potty humor. Maybe if the had spent more time on THE SIMS forums TS4 could have been a whole different game????
kim
Which is what I said on another thread - if all the gurus do is hang out on Twitter then what's the point of having a forum? It's ridiculous.
“I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
It's kind of funny that this game actually managed to bring me back to sims. I was a serial collector at The Sims 2 stage (even though I had vanilla The Sims 1), I wasn't too hot on The Sims 3. I experienced various issues with installing and running the game and ran into a lot of bugs. The lack of anti-aliasing also put me off as I was seeing jagged courners everywhere. I eventually ended up buying 5 expansion packs at the end of its lifetime and that's it. However for this one, however illogical, I want to stat up my collection again. I want to buy the majority of stuff and expansion packs for it, as long as its in a reasonable amount and actually provides enough content (like for example I didn't find Digital Deluxe worth it, as all it is, is a hat, a hot dog costume, a lamp and a bar).
You aren't alone, my friend I thought I was over the Sims franchise with the third iteration. I was content to just play TS2 until I turned grey and ignored the TS3 communities and the official sims site. Then TS4 was announced and I fell in love with the sims all over again. I do think the base game has a lot of issues, but at the same time I think this game has so much potential to be awesome. It's just weird that EA says they will give the fans what they want and it's obvious we want so many extremes that cancel each other out like the TS3 trait system :disagree:
It's kind of funny that this game actually managed to bring me back to sims. I was a serial collector at The Sims 2 stage (even though I had vanilla The Sims 1), I wasn't too hot on The Sims 3. I experienced various issues with installing and running the game and ran into a lot of bugs. The lack of anti-aliasing also put me off as I was seeing jagged courners everywhere. I eventually ended up buying 5 expansion packs at the end of its lifetime and that's it. However for this one, however illogical, I want to stat up my collection again. I want to buy the majority of stuff and expansion packs for it, as long as its in a reasonable amount and actually provides enough content (like for example I didn't find Digital Deluxe worth it, as all it is, is a hat, a hot dog costume, a lamp and a bar).
You aren't alone, my friend I thought I was over the Sims franchise with the third iteration. I was content to just play TS2 until I turned grey and ignored the TS3 communities and the official sims site. Then TS4 was announced and I fell in love with the sims all over again. I do think the base game has a lot of issues, but at the same time I think this game has so much potential to be awesome. It's just weird that EA says they will give the fans what they want and it's obvious we want so many extremes that cancel each other out like the TS3 trait system :disagree:
It's kind of funny that this game actually managed to bring me back to sims. I was a serial collector at The Sims 2 stage (even though I had vanilla The Sims 1), I wasn't too hot on The Sims 3. I experienced various issues with installing and running the game and ran into a lot of bugs. The lack of anti-aliasing also put me off as I was seeing jagged courners everywhere. I eventually ended up buying 5 expansion packs at the end of its lifetime and that's it. However for this one, however illogical, I want to stat up my collection again. I want to buy the majority of stuff and expansion packs for it, as long as its in a reasonable amount and actually provides enough content (like for example I didn't find Digital Deluxe worth it, as all it is, is a hat, a hot dog costume, a lamp and a bar).
You aren't alone, my friend I thought I was over the Sims franchise with the third iteration. I was content to just play TS2 until I turned grey and ignored the TS3 communities and the official sims site. Then TS4 was announced and I fell in love with the sims all over again. I do think the base game has a lot of issues, but at the same time I think this game has so much potential to be awesome. It's just weird that EA says they will give the fans what they want and it's obvious we want so many extremes that cancel each other out like the TS3 trait system :disagree:
I really don't know what fans they have listened. Sometimes i think there made this game as they want but not what we want.
Wouldn't that mean that they would be the only ones playing it in the end? I doubt the majority of devs play the Sims in their free time.
No one said they play it. If they'd been forced to play it daily, they might have done a better job.
Objection !
It's not the dev the problem, management is !
I believe it is both. Management is not developing the game. The actual game play mechanics is on the developers. And they took this game so far away from a life simulation game that they too must shoulder some of the blame for the lack of appeal to some of the fan base. They targeted a different social group and had to hope the fan-base would purchase just because it was a sim game. Well lack luster sales compared to prior base games tell the story. They may have hit the mark with some, but failed miserably with others.
kim
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln
You're just building the game up for letdown. If the game could ever be fixed of its disastrous coding...it might have the potential to not bug out at the slightest touch. ---This is my opinion, but I have never had so many problems in so little time as I did with TS4. Not even the jump bug was as big a problem.
I had so much more problems with The Sims 3 in that regard.
I believe it is both. Management is not developing the game. The actual game play mechanics is on the developers. And they took this game so far away from a life simulation game that they too must shoulder some of the blame for the lack of appeal to some of the fan base. They targeted a different social group and had to hope the fan-base would purchase just because it was a sim game. Well lack luster sales compared to prior base games tell the story. They may have hit the mark with some, but failed miserably with others.
kim
Not really. Developers aren't game designer. (Except in small companies, but people talented in both are rare)
And even game designer have to follow what the higher-ups says. (Unless said higher-ups are smart enough to realize they should trust the People under them, usually more competent in their own domain.)
I think it has to do with how the game has been developed over the years. To me, TS is a sandbox with a world, objects and sims. On that one can tack anything you want. In the past custom content was sort of semi-unofficial and EPs and SPs somehow were seen as the actual game. Which is why people now keep saying we should wait for EPs before making judgement. Which is strange, why buy something that is unfinished? Look at it like a car. Suppose some car manufacturer said they were working on the next version of one of their models and when it came out it turns out to be a horse and carriage and they tell you you have to wait for the added content later like a motor, gastank, steeringwheel etc. People will shout they want a blue steering wheel, others a red one, some will want a joystick or footpedals etc. etc. TS was (is?) a mode of transportation but people think it is a car or it should be a plane or a boat. Partly because that is the way it was marketed. Rather than asking for a car, you should ask for the option to be able to turn it into any type of vehicle. Well, perhaps I make no sense?
The only mixed messages I can see are EA's - they wanted input and instead of focusing on their own official forum - and the various other Sims forums - they went to the Twitter/FB/RPG crowd. Now they're freaking out because instead of listening to the very straightforward requests and comments generated by the Sims community they instead chose to listen to tweenies who have no vested interest in the Sims franchise. This is all on EA.
“I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
@mirta000 I am glad the Sims 4 is an enjoyable playing experience for you and others. I think that if you are totally in love with Sims 2 and never warmed up to Sims 3 this rendition probably works for you.
I liked my open world but I'm not married to it. Toddlers are gone, I'll deal with it. There's not a lot to do, it's a base game. My dark skinned sims look like an ashy mess, friends are harder to earn and keep than simoleons, my sims have emotions but have lost their quirky personalities, my infants umbilical cord is now attached to its bassinet...Houston we have a problem.
Glad for those who are happy with their game and I hope you are enjoying it as I type this. As for the rest of us, I feel ya' man.
I'm not sure, but I think they listened too much to other social sites than their own forums. They just overlooked the die hard sims fans. You know those fans that brought scores of players to their table because of things like (but not limited too)...
Mother brings daughter/son on, because Mom plays Sims.
Daughter/Son brings friends on, because they play Sims.
Friends bring on friends, because "you" play.
Kinda like a generation passing Sims down to a generation.
I brought many to the table to play Sims...Now I watch my daughters leave because in their words, "This isn't a Sims game!".
So, the buck stops there. Daughters won't bring their kids to the Sims table.
The company should stick to their forums and just glance at the other social sites...most players there are more than not pick up game, play it a minute, until the better new shiney game comes out. Fly by the seat of their pants types.
I'm not sure, but I think they listened too much to other social sites than their own forums. They just overlooked the die hard sims fans. You know those fans that brought scores of players to their table because of things like (but not limited too)...
Mother brings daughter/son on, because Mom plays Sims.
Daughter/Son brings friends on, because they play Sims.
Friends bring on friends, because "you" play.
Kinda like a generation passing Sims down to a generation.
I brought many to the table to play Sims...Now I watch my daughters leave because in their words, "This isn't a Sims game!".
So, the buck stops there. Daughters won't bring their kids to the Sims table.
The company should stick to their forums and just glance at the other social sites...most players there are more than not pick up game, play it a minute, until the better new shiney game comes out. Fly by the seat of their pants types.
And not all people that were following the game from The Sims 1 are on the forums. Trough The Sims 2 times I had an account on their website and used to post stories, but I was never on the forums, for The Sims 3 news I would follow facebook, but was never on the forums.
> @kimjo313 said:<br />
> Actually probably not. They like twitter and facebook and all the social media forums where they would get feedback from the youthful simmers. Those who would love the single party life aspect, the rpg format and the potty humor. Maybe if the had spent more time on THE SIMS forums TS4 could have been a whole different game????<br />
> <br />
> kim <br />
<br />
Now that's quite insulting! I've been with The Sims since Sims 1, however I only registered to the forums for The Sims 4. Previously I would track The Sims trough facebook as it is quite handy, because I use it to contact my work team anyway. <br />
<br />
> @Sk8rblaze said:<br />
> No, it's the result of EA cleaning up their fail attempt to turn the series online for easy cash. Not only that, it's the result of hiring developers who don't know the difference between an RPG and simulation game. <br />
<br />
<br />
there's nothing wrong in including progression to a sandbox game. For one thing they were in, but less obvious in the previous games too. For example, remember the dating bar from The Sims 2 Night Life? Or work rewards from The Sims 2 and The Sims 3? The only difference is that in this one they're clearly visible in the build menu. In the previous ones it would either be in the unlockables section near the aspiration menu, or like in The Sims 3 you just got 1X of the object that you unlocked. <br />
<br />
It's kind of like complaining that RPGs have sandbox elements. Like the ability to build your house, marry and adopt in Skyrim.
Of course there's nothing wrong with adding progression into a sandbox game. But the issue with TS4 is the game is CENTERED around it. You have to play the game the way EA tells you to, which is not what a sandbox game should be.
You brought up TS2 dating. I liked the progression system there. However, it wasn't very linear at all. I could move the bar to a dream date doing anything I wanted. There weren't check boxes saying "KISS 3 TIMES", "WOOHOO 2 TIMES", etc. Instead, I could have my Sim take his girlfriend to a restaurant. They could dine and I had a plethora of interactions to choose from that would raise that bar. There was no defined path that I had to take to make the date a dream date. I could have them joke around, feed a bite from their dinner plates, flirt, woohoo in the car/photo booth, etc. There were so many options.
And there was more progression gameplay other than dating. The headmaster to get your Sims' children into private school, careers, outings, parties, etc. Again, none as linear as The Sims 4. For all of these features, I bought the objects I wanted, interacted with the said objects the way I wanted, and got the job done my way. Not EA's.
So, no, the only difference is NOT that you can/can't see unlockables in buy mode. It goes much further than that.
When EA came out with TS4's non-standard careers, fans (like me) screamed "We want NORMAL careers", and so EA is patching them in. Now with a patch only days/weeks away I've been reading a lot of "Now give us mermaids, dinosaurs, elves, etc." alongside fan posts (like mine) "Give us toddlers, realistic life stages, family trees, etc."
So what if the whole marketing campaign and game itself are just a compromise between two extremes? And if so, then how will this affect the don't you dare, but hurry up and do it DLC? Would we get a weird compromise with that as well?
And who is the dominant fan base anyway?
I can totally live without dinosaurs and mermaids, but I often wonder if they're trying to compromise as well.
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
I can totally live without dinosaurs and mermaids, but I often wonder if they're trying to compromise as well.
I probably couldn´t, but I realize that this is what mods and cc are for. FIRST deliver a solid life simulator, THEN watch people customize it into whatever world they want to play in (victorian, apocalypse, mermaids, whatever).
About the mixed messages, one big surprise to me was many fans´ reaction to the lack of toddlers. From what I had picked up in different forums, toddlers seemed to be the most hated lifestage, so I wouldn´t have expected it such a big deal to leave them out. I suppose that happens if you only skim what gets written and disregard what people might mean by what they write. Not "take toddlers away, they suck", but "toddlers suck, give us better versions".
I think they'd have to daft to think that more people want dinosaurs and mermaids over family trees and proper life stages.
They've done their marketing research, I'm sure they'll cater to whoever will be most likely to buy it. I'm sure they'd be looking at the sales and popularity of Sims 3 stuff, and going from there. At least I hope so!
Hmm... but some of those same fans complained vociferously about the tedious game play with toddlers... assuming that they are not patched in and -come with an EP, would this be for the same reason almost no supernatural states shipped with the game, i.e.,toddlers are now considered to be a feature and should be optional for all players?
I thought the toddler content was the top selling stuff in the store.
I wouldn't know to be honest. I wouldn't and won't go near DLC. I understand and appreciate the model from a profit perspective, but as a consumer, DLC is rubbish and I prefer fan made CC and trust it far more than the official content to not stuff up my game.
Comments
No one said they play it. If they'd been forced to play it daily, they might have done a better job.
I thought the toddler content was the top selling stuff in the store.
I think with TS3 they were kinda trying to get people to give up multigenerational, multi-year Saved Games and just start a new game every time a new EP came out. I think with TS4 they may be trying to do the same thing, but maybe they're doing the opposite and working to give us more of a TS2 experience. I'm rooting for the latter.
Either way, we'll make all kinds of competing demands and they'll work with some of them.
Annette Thayer butts heads with the late Eric Lewis on her first day as steward.
I believe they were forced into cuts and that's why teens-elders are the same height-cheaper and quicker to create because they share the same movements etc, and why babies got stuck to the bassinet and toddlers weren't implemented. They were still working on the game to the last possible moment trying to cram as much as possible in but they were set up to fail with the limited resources.
I think it's why even small but significant items like dishwashers weren't in the base either.
I've seen modders mention files which hint at toddlers so hopefully they were working on them and prioritise finishing the base before we start getting a bunch of dlc/eps with their assorted inevitable bugs attached.
People bought into the game believing that the base would be much more stable. For some, that's the case, but for others there have been a proliferation of assorted bugs, game breaking down to minor irritants so many felt that claim wasn't quite accurate.
I don't believe people are in a 'now, now, now' mindset at all. I think people just feel the need to be assured that the most pressing issues will be addressed and that the unfinished base will be improved before we are asked to shell out on further content. Many people feel they fell into a trap of doing that in 3 and they intend to be a lot more savvy with their purchases this time round.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
It would imply the creators lack a vision of their own.
When they jump into every whim the fanbase has this is going to be disaster.
Because it doesn't matter at all who is 'the dominant fanbase'.
I can't help remembering that famous quote from Henry Ford (American industrialist, founder of the Ford Motor Company and sponsor of the development of the assembly line technique of mass production).
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”
Which is what I said on another thread - if all the gurus do is hang out on Twitter then what's the point of having a forum? It's ridiculous.
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
It's not the dev the problem, management is !
Exactly. Management needs to address the community-not just push the gurus into an impossible situation.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
I believe it is both. Management is not developing the game. The actual game play mechanics is on the developers. And they took this game so far away from a life simulation game that they too must shoulder some of the blame for the lack of appeal to some of the fan base. They targeted a different social group and had to hope the fan-base would purchase just because it was a sim game. Well lack luster sales compared to prior base games tell the story. They may have hit the mark with some, but failed miserably with others.
kim
Abraham Lincoln
I had so much more problems with The Sims 3 in that regard.
And even game designer have to follow what the higher-ups says. (Unless said higher-ups are smart enough to realize they should trust the People under them, usually more competent in their own domain.)
TS was (is?) a mode of transportation but people think it is a car or it should be a plane or a boat. Partly because that is the way it was marketed. Rather than asking for a car, you should ask for the option to be able to turn it into any type of vehicle.
Well, perhaps I make no sense?
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
I liked my open world but I'm not married to it. Toddlers are gone, I'll deal with it. There's not a lot to do, it's a base game. My dark skinned sims look like an ashy mess, friends are harder to earn and keep than simoleons, my sims have emotions but have lost their quirky personalities, my infants umbilical cord is now attached to its bassinet...Houston we have a problem.
Glad for those who are happy with their game and I hope you are enjoying it as I type this. As for the rest of us, I feel ya' man.
Mother brings daughter/son on, because Mom plays Sims.
Daughter/Son brings friends on, because they play Sims.
Friends bring on friends, because "you" play.
Kinda like a generation passing Sims down to a generation.
I brought many to the table to play Sims...Now I watch my daughters leave because in their words, "This isn't a Sims game!".
So, the buck stops there. Daughters won't bring their kids to the Sims table.
The company should stick to their forums and just glance at the other social sites...most players there are more than not pick up game, play it a minute, until the better new shiney game comes out. Fly by the seat of their pants types.
And not all people that were following the game from The Sims 1 are on the forums. Trough The Sims 2 times I had an account on their website and used to post stories, but I was never on the forums, for The Sims 3 news I would follow facebook, but was never on the forums.
...Aaaaand that's the difference, TS4 feels too constricted to have the same widespread appeal.
Of course there's nothing wrong with adding progression into a sandbox game. But the issue with TS4 is the game is CENTERED around it. You have to play the game the way EA tells you to, which is not what a sandbox game should be.
You brought up TS2 dating. I liked the progression system there. However, it wasn't very linear at all. I could move the bar to a dream date doing anything I wanted. There weren't check boxes saying "KISS 3 TIMES", "WOOHOO 2 TIMES", etc. Instead, I could have my Sim take his girlfriend to a restaurant. They could dine and I had a plethora of interactions to choose from that would raise that bar. There was no defined path that I had to take to make the date a dream date. I could have them joke around, feed a bite from their dinner plates, flirt, woohoo in the car/photo booth, etc. There were so many options.
And there was more progression gameplay other than dating. The headmaster to get your Sims' children into private school, careers, outings, parties, etc. Again, none as linear as The Sims 4. For all of these features, I bought the objects I wanted, interacted with the said objects the way I wanted, and got the job done my way. Not EA's.
So, no, the only difference is NOT that you can/can't see unlockables in buy mode. It goes much further than that.
I can totally live without dinosaurs and mermaids, but I often wonder if they're trying to compromise as well.
About the mixed messages, one big surprise to me was many fans´ reaction to the lack of toddlers. From what I had picked up in different forums, toddlers seemed to be the most hated lifestage, so I wouldn´t have expected it such a big deal to leave them out. I suppose that happens if you only skim what gets written and disregard what people might mean by what they write. Not "take toddlers away, they suck", but "toddlers suck, give us better versions".
I wouldn't know to be honest. I wouldn't and won't go near DLC. I understand and appreciate the model from a profit perspective, but as a consumer, DLC is rubbish and I prefer fan made CC and trust it far more than the official content to not stuff up my game.